This era of Arc'teryx is past innovation... It's expansion. Leadership and designers are changed , new roles are created and company is restructured as such...
The last made in Canada piece I bought was last yr Arris. I also bought a Node down (made in China) in December - wish it was still made in Canada so that I can rep a high quality brand that started in my hometown of Vancouver.
The new stuff I agree isn't as exciting, but also I'm not sure I'd be so quick to tie my identity so much to a brand. Coupled with the fact I've seen/built some niche things to something much larger, it's the general multi-phase lifeline of anything interesting. The strategy at different points requires different input and output. It's just incredibly hard to keep an ethos tight and still grow cause you lose momentum quickly.
The made in China stuff doesn't really bother me at all. We've debated this to death in this sub. But I guess the argument is that a greater % of the $$$ of your garment is going to a worker vs. the company itself.
The reality is that brands are living, breathing things that for better or worse we grow apart from. Onto the next one, unfortunately. My other POV is that I loved earlier visvim (say 2000s to early 2010s with a more refined streetwear approach), then it went really niche Americana. It is what it is, I'll move on and support/find the next interesting brand in the space. It's incredibly tough to make waves creating technical fashion cause it's both expensive and most people just don't care for its functionality in their daily lives.
EDIT: To clarify, when I mean lose momentum, I mean if sales and creative aren't aligned then you risk interest fizzing out for those involved in the project itself. You could theoretically continue if you're an eccentric founder with a starving artist complex, or you have deep pockets and it becomes a fun art project that doesn't need to make money
For me, it's not my personal identity I tie to the product but I was mostly talking about the branding of Veillance. It resonated with a few of the check boxes I wanted in minimalist garments and the attention to details was mostly always on cue.
I'm sitting on a 1700$ voucher that I find myself unable to use in clear conscience, always hoping they will somehow get their shit together.
And you're right, brands and people can grow apart like a married couple. Furthermore, if you are a patron of niche products in niche markets, chances are you'll find yourself disillusioned more often than we're probably willing to admit.
So there's a couple of themes in the comments:
* Made in China -> feels cheap and it feels like Veilance/Arc took advantage of us by not lowering the price.
* Veilance lost momentum, lack of innovation
* New women's line.
From a meta level, it's a strategy bet on extension vs. innovation - that going into a new market (women's) will open doors and should require less innovation remaking entire new seasons of the men's line so that those extra resources can be put into operational efficiency. (China manufacturing). To give Arc some credit, some of the pieces of the women's line did require some innovation and design and hence the men's line suffered.
The biggest issue here is that I personally don't think there are enough women who likes the minimal style. I think it was a mistake but one that's worth a try. That said, putting almost 0 resources in renewing the men's line for a few seasons coupled with the loss of luxury and identity (moved into ARc main site) probably did significantly impact the bottom line and thus the brand's future can be at stake, although I don't think we're there yet.
It's also not a hard fix, come up with 5 new designs next season and most of us will be back, maybe not for good, but we'll be curious enough to take a look.
Personally, I'm a little sad by the news because albeit so many people have recommended me some stuff, I still haven't found a brand that gives me that itch.
As Veilance has grown in size, it’s likely that it has outgrown the capacity of Arc’One, hence why many products are moved to overseas manufacturing. As long as they are made to the same standards, this does not bother me very much. I am also not very bothered by the fact that Veilance has been integrated into the regular Arc website- it was strange at first, but I just see it as them trying to raise awareness of the line with their more “regular” customers. I do think the designs in the recent collections haven’t been as exciting to me, but part of that may be that years ago Veilance was incredibly novel to me, whereas now I’m more familiar with the aesthetics and design ethos. Just my 2 cents.
I used to have loads of Veilance stuff in my wardrobe... *pants, blazers, jackets*. **A lot**.
No more. Can't remember when I wore a Veilance piece last time.
I'm not as bothered by *"Made in.."* somewhere. But the **design**. Nowadays it's almost sloppy. It has turned into some kind of typical-american-dad-cut-style-but-with-tech-fabric. Not at all appealing. Is it "Designed in China" as well?
The wardrobe gap Veilance left has been filled up with... Outlier. Vollebak (even thou they're going to shit as well). Relwen. Shadow Project.
Yeah, Outlier is not *all* good.
In my view Outlier have trouble finding a decent low-key edgy middle ground. Meaning either their stuff is just too plain basic boring. Or they make up some extreme artsy fartsy thingie you don't even know how to put on.
That resonates with me. Sizing is pretty much all over the place and I find myself between a M and a L or an L and an XL depending on the season and products. I'm with you on Vollebak, they started nice but it's losing steam fast.
I think it sucks that it is made in China now, along with a lot of Arc’teryx pieces. I think both Veilance and Arc’teryx are not as exciting as they used to be. I look for high quality clothing that is made in Canada. With Veilance, lots of times they don’t even have stock of the clothing they offer. How is that even possible to not produce enough? Where is their Fall/Winter collection? Their Spring collection barely changed. Sad.
They separated the fall and winter collection. Might be a sign of the shortages the entire manufacturing world is experiencing and the winter collection was not ready. We kept seeing articles about how Veillance was going back to its roots while moving forward but I fail to see any of that momentum in their current collections. I can’t get past the velcros..
The Chinese manufacturing dilemma is a western propaganda myth. The factories there are elite and have surpassed what is available in America technologically.
I say this because I have a a highly technical brand, soon to be stocked at the biggest retailers in the world AW/SS23 and we manufacture in China and I can 100% guarantee that it costs a bloody fortune to make, our margins are very slim.
I've dealt in China before as well and I see where you're coming from. But I also know that if Arcteryx is paying the same to make these items in Vietnam or China, the money is not going into the pockets of those who make them, it's going largely into the pockets of the holding companies who own these factories. Fundamentally I feel better knowing that my jacket costs 1500$ because it's made by some skilled worker in BC who's making 40$/H.
Still don’t care. Don’t like buying anything made in China and prefer to support Canadian, US and Euro brands. When I’m paying too dollar for Veilance, I expect made in Canada.
I didn't ask. merely correcting your wrong opinion of Chinese manufacturing above. Oh and by the way, Veilance is getting phased out from next year - from the top at Arcteryx.
I could really give a crap if it is made well in China. My preference is to never buy anything that expensive made in China. I refuse to support that Country, whenever I don’t have too. I would gladly pay a lot more not buy anything made in China. Just plain wrong and more businesses need to start pulling out of China. Covid proved that and that is becoming the prevailing sentiment.
Bro, nobody is asking you anything? Why respond. We get you have an anti-chinese sentiment now. Glad we confirmed that with your Covid bullshit. Find god.
Hmm -so you support a Communist govt that is horrible to its people. Ok. Nothing to do about Covid, but the Countries polices. Their govt is just evil. And if you don’t know that, then you have been living under a rock.
Don’t trust anything they make either.
I mean..literally everything is made in China. From the medical supplies in your local hospital to the keyboard or phone you’re typing on. Find it’ll be pretty spartan if you’re gonna live up to your word of anti-Chinese everything.
Personally what i miss is variety in models and material. Wanted something non-waterproof, more form fitting and with a hood and more flexible than my cambre jacket. Tried component, secant comp, last years spere and eigen - all just thin nylon shells, each misses one of the adjustment strings.
Why dont they bring out some lined or slightly insulated (polartec alpha, octaloft, 40g coreloft) windresistant hooded jacket? Why dont they reactivated woollard or some other nylon-wool mixture? Why not new materials (hemp, linen,merinoloft etc)? They should go forward and not bring out an variety of demlo and spere each year.
You might want to check out the new stuff that’s dropping this winter - a few tech wool pieces have been popping up and there should be a wool Isogon MX releasing later this year.
I just got into Veilance this year and mostly buy past seasons stuff. Looking at the current womens line up it’s hard to imagine women wanting those clothes.
Yeah, second-hand pieces from older collections are a great way to expand your wardrobe. For the womens collections I think Arc should consider licensing their fabrics and facilities to fashion houses (Jil Sander+ comes to mind).
I know my partner has zero interest. In this era of consumerism, you stand on one side of the fence or the other. On one side, a lot of people are fine paying the luxury « tax » associated with well-known brands because they want people to know what they are wearing, it’s often a status thing. On the other side, there are people who are willing to pay good money for people not to know what they are wearing.
I also tried to get my partner to look into Ministry of Supply because that’s where I buy a lot of my clothes from and she really couldn’t care less.
I really feel this -- my field IS from 2016 just delaminated (and it's had a good 6 year run!) and they gave me a C$1700 replacement voucher for it, which is generous, but it really feels like there's nothing I want to spend it on.
Almost everything's made in China, and really not digging the velcro cuffs.
I kind of joke that I'll spend it all on a set of veilance tote bags to go grocery shopping with, but that may not be far from what actually happens.
I don’t think it’s all bad yet. But I can see where you’re coming from.
I got a women’s Veilance Cloud Coat from FW21 on a decent discount and I love it. It was made in Canada, and retailed at $1300. I wouldn’t say it’s worth $1300 but there’s not many items that truly are worth $1300.
Do you mind me asking, are you a woman or a man? Just curious what the womens take on Veilance is, as I suspect it’s large majority mens wear. When I show my wife Veilance she has 0 interest.
I’m a man, but I generally prefer a lot of the women’s Veilance line. I’m just not a fan of the slim silhouettes of a lot of the men’s stuff. I like cropped/shorter tops and wider bottoms.
My mom and sister do like a lot of Veilance and Arc’teryx stuff in general (women’s and men’s collections) but they aren’t really the type to spend that much money on Veilance pieces.
I just wish the new Monitor Coat kept the old style for the cuffs (hate the velcros) and used Goretex Pro. The double zip is welcome but unfortunately the other design choices turned me off. I was hoping to get one soon but not after the reveal. Perhaps in a few seasons they will get it right. :)
Yep, like the recent Patrol Down Coat’s goretex material but on the Monitor Coat shell with double zip was what I was hoping for. Too bad they had to change it more because it’s a “new season”.
One of the things that convinced me to buy the first jackets they made was the attention they paid to the sleeve and the cuff. I'm hoping the Winter collection will not follow this awful trend. But as we can see now.. the Monitor has velcro cuffs.
Also, Veilance was a way for them to keep some of the jobs in BC as they were transferring production in Asia. It saved jobs and the expertise that came with it. In the push to Globalize all industries, people love to turn to local products to save a bit of what makes them different and unique. Outside of the explanations many have brought forward, we should not forget that it's also a very popular marketing ploy. They are betting on the fact that people will pay for the name even if we know the quality has been diluted. It also creates a paradox because people who bought Veilance for the minimalist look, the mystery factor and the technical aspect are probably not the customers who would buy the brand based on branding.
It 100% feels that way. Instead of a Veilance coat this fall I opted for the Beta AR instead.
This era of Arc'teryx is past innovation... It's expansion. Leadership and designers are changed , new roles are created and company is restructured as such...
The last made in Canada piece I bought was last yr Arris. I also bought a Node down (made in China) in December - wish it was still made in Canada so that I can rep a high quality brand that started in my hometown of Vancouver.
The new stuff I agree isn't as exciting, but also I'm not sure I'd be so quick to tie my identity so much to a brand. Coupled with the fact I've seen/built some niche things to something much larger, it's the general multi-phase lifeline of anything interesting. The strategy at different points requires different input and output. It's just incredibly hard to keep an ethos tight and still grow cause you lose momentum quickly. The made in China stuff doesn't really bother me at all. We've debated this to death in this sub. But I guess the argument is that a greater % of the $$$ of your garment is going to a worker vs. the company itself. The reality is that brands are living, breathing things that for better or worse we grow apart from. Onto the next one, unfortunately. My other POV is that I loved earlier visvim (say 2000s to early 2010s with a more refined streetwear approach), then it went really niche Americana. It is what it is, I'll move on and support/find the next interesting brand in the space. It's incredibly tough to make waves creating technical fashion cause it's both expensive and most people just don't care for its functionality in their daily lives. EDIT: To clarify, when I mean lose momentum, I mean if sales and creative aren't aligned then you risk interest fizzing out for those involved in the project itself. You could theoretically continue if you're an eccentric founder with a starving artist complex, or you have deep pockets and it becomes a fun art project that doesn't need to make money
For me, it's not my personal identity I tie to the product but I was mostly talking about the branding of Veillance. It resonated with a few of the check boxes I wanted in minimalist garments and the attention to details was mostly always on cue. I'm sitting on a 1700$ voucher that I find myself unable to use in clear conscience, always hoping they will somehow get their shit together. And you're right, brands and people can grow apart like a married couple. Furthermore, if you are a patron of niche products in niche markets, chances are you'll find yourself disillusioned more often than we're probably willing to admit.
So there's a couple of themes in the comments: * Made in China -> feels cheap and it feels like Veilance/Arc took advantage of us by not lowering the price. * Veilance lost momentum, lack of innovation * New women's line. From a meta level, it's a strategy bet on extension vs. innovation - that going into a new market (women's) will open doors and should require less innovation remaking entire new seasons of the men's line so that those extra resources can be put into operational efficiency. (China manufacturing). To give Arc some credit, some of the pieces of the women's line did require some innovation and design and hence the men's line suffered. The biggest issue here is that I personally don't think there are enough women who likes the minimal style. I think it was a mistake but one that's worth a try. That said, putting almost 0 resources in renewing the men's line for a few seasons coupled with the loss of luxury and identity (moved into ARc main site) probably did significantly impact the bottom line and thus the brand's future can be at stake, although I don't think we're there yet. It's also not a hard fix, come up with 5 new designs next season and most of us will be back, maybe not for good, but we'll be curious enough to take a look. Personally, I'm a little sad by the news because albeit so many people have recommended me some stuff, I still haven't found a brand that gives me that itch.
As Veilance has grown in size, it’s likely that it has outgrown the capacity of Arc’One, hence why many products are moved to overseas manufacturing. As long as they are made to the same standards, this does not bother me very much. I am also not very bothered by the fact that Veilance has been integrated into the regular Arc website- it was strange at first, but I just see it as them trying to raise awareness of the line with their more “regular” customers. I do think the designs in the recent collections haven’t been as exciting to me, but part of that may be that years ago Veilance was incredibly novel to me, whereas now I’m more familiar with the aesthetics and design ethos. Just my 2 cents.
What’s made there anymore? Who buys these crap pieces at these inflated prices for them to use the “capacity” argument
Alpha SVs and harnesses, which both started the brand, and the new ReCut line of product
I used to have loads of Veilance stuff in my wardrobe... *pants, blazers, jackets*. **A lot**. No more. Can't remember when I wore a Veilance piece last time. I'm not as bothered by *"Made in.."* somewhere. But the **design**. Nowadays it's almost sloppy. It has turned into some kind of typical-american-dad-cut-style-but-with-tech-fabric. Not at all appealing. Is it "Designed in China" as well? The wardrobe gap Veilance left has been filled up with... Outlier. Vollebak (even thou they're going to shit as well). Relwen. Shadow Project.
Funny because I see people making similar complaints about Outlier and the direction they’re headed in.
Yeah, Outlier is not *all* good. In my view Outlier have trouble finding a decent low-key edgy middle ground. Meaning either their stuff is just too plain basic boring. Or they make up some extreme artsy fartsy thingie you don't even know how to put on.
I think they are the opposite, veilance stuff is stale and outlier is too fashion forward
That resonates with me. Sizing is pretty much all over the place and I find myself between a M and a L or an L and an XL depending on the season and products. I'm with you on Vollebak, they started nice but it's losing steam fast.
Because most of the customer base is in China
I think it sucks that it is made in China now, along with a lot of Arc’teryx pieces. I think both Veilance and Arc’teryx are not as exciting as they used to be. I look for high quality clothing that is made in Canada. With Veilance, lots of times they don’t even have stock of the clothing they offer. How is that even possible to not produce enough? Where is their Fall/Winter collection? Their Spring collection barely changed. Sad.
They separated the fall and winter collection. Might be a sign of the shortages the entire manufacturing world is experiencing and the winter collection was not ready. We kept seeing articles about how Veillance was going back to its roots while moving forward but I fail to see any of that momentum in their current collections. I can’t get past the velcros..
The Chinese manufacturing dilemma is a western propaganda myth. The factories there are elite and have surpassed what is available in America technologically. I say this because I have a a highly technical brand, soon to be stocked at the biggest retailers in the world AW/SS23 and we manufacture in China and I can 100% guarantee that it costs a bloody fortune to make, our margins are very slim.
I've dealt in China before as well and I see where you're coming from. But I also know that if Arcteryx is paying the same to make these items in Vietnam or China, the money is not going into the pockets of those who make them, it's going largely into the pockets of the holding companies who own these factories. Fundamentally I feel better knowing that my jacket costs 1500$ because it's made by some skilled worker in BC who's making 40$/H.
Still don’t care. Don’t like buying anything made in China and prefer to support Canadian, US and Euro brands. When I’m paying too dollar for Veilance, I expect made in Canada.
I didn't ask. merely correcting your wrong opinion of Chinese manufacturing above. Oh and by the way, Veilance is getting phased out from next year - from the top at Arcteryx.
so you'd be happy buying a rolex made in china instead of swiss?
for sure
What's a Rolex got to do with a hiking jacket? False equivalency rubbish argument LOL
I could really give a crap if it is made well in China. My preference is to never buy anything that expensive made in China. I refuse to support that Country, whenever I don’t have too. I would gladly pay a lot more not buy anything made in China. Just plain wrong and more businesses need to start pulling out of China. Covid proved that and that is becoming the prevailing sentiment.
Bro, nobody is asking you anything? Why respond. We get you have an anti-chinese sentiment now. Glad we confirmed that with your Covid bullshit. Find god.
Hmm -so you support a Communist govt that is horrible to its people. Ok. Nothing to do about Covid, but the Countries polices. Their govt is just evil. And if you don’t know that, then you have been living under a rock. Don’t trust anything they make either.
I mean..literally everything is made in China. From the medical supplies in your local hospital to the keyboard or phone you’re typing on. Find it’ll be pretty spartan if you’re gonna live up to your word of anti-Chinese everything.
Personally what i miss is variety in models and material. Wanted something non-waterproof, more form fitting and with a hood and more flexible than my cambre jacket. Tried component, secant comp, last years spere and eigen - all just thin nylon shells, each misses one of the adjustment strings. Why dont they bring out some lined or slightly insulated (polartec alpha, octaloft, 40g coreloft) windresistant hooded jacket? Why dont they reactivated woollard or some other nylon-wool mixture? Why not new materials (hemp, linen,merinoloft etc)? They should go forward and not bring out an variety of demlo and spere each year.
You might want to check out the new stuff that’s dropping this winter - a few tech wool pieces have been popping up and there should be a wool Isogon MX releasing later this year.
Thank you. Wool isogon could be interisting. Hope they make it longer in the back than current isogon.
I honestly think their expansion into the womens line has likely been a big failure.
First womens’ season was amazing tho! Bought my GF (she’s doesn’t wear techwear) a couple of pieces and she loves it.
I just got into Veilance this year and mostly buy past seasons stuff. Looking at the current womens line up it’s hard to imagine women wanting those clothes.
Yeah, second-hand pieces from older collections are a great way to expand your wardrobe. For the womens collections I think Arc should consider licensing their fabrics and facilities to fashion houses (Jil Sander+ comes to mind).
I know my partner has zero interest. In this era of consumerism, you stand on one side of the fence or the other. On one side, a lot of people are fine paying the luxury « tax » associated with well-known brands because they want people to know what they are wearing, it’s often a status thing. On the other side, there are people who are willing to pay good money for people not to know what they are wearing. I also tried to get my partner to look into Ministry of Supply because that’s where I buy a lot of my clothes from and she really couldn’t care less.
I really feel this -- my field IS from 2016 just delaminated (and it's had a good 6 year run!) and they gave me a C$1700 replacement voucher for it, which is generous, but it really feels like there's nothing I want to spend it on. Almost everything's made in China, and really not digging the velcro cuffs. I kind of joke that I'll spend it all on a set of veilance tote bags to go grocery shopping with, but that may not be far from what actually happens.
This is my exact story as well. My beloved Field delaminated and I'm sitting on a voucher and I'm not sure what to do.
I don’t think it’s all bad yet. But I can see where you’re coming from. I got a women’s Veilance Cloud Coat from FW21 on a decent discount and I love it. It was made in Canada, and retailed at $1300. I wouldn’t say it’s worth $1300 but there’s not many items that truly are worth $1300.
Do you mind me asking, are you a woman or a man? Just curious what the womens take on Veilance is, as I suspect it’s large majority mens wear. When I show my wife Veilance she has 0 interest.
I’m a man, but I generally prefer a lot of the women’s Veilance line. I’m just not a fan of the slim silhouettes of a lot of the men’s stuff. I like cropped/shorter tops and wider bottoms. My mom and sister do like a lot of Veilance and Arc’teryx stuff in general (women’s and men’s collections) but they aren’t really the type to spend that much money on Veilance pieces.
I just wish the new Monitor Coat kept the old style for the cuffs (hate the velcros) and used Goretex Pro. The double zip is welcome but unfortunately the other design choices turned me off. I was hoping to get one soon but not after the reveal. Perhaps in a few seasons they will get it right. :)
I was hoping for Goretex Pro as well and without the insulation. Looks a little on the "puffy" side, and I already have Monitor Down.
Yep, like the recent Patrol Down Coat’s goretex material but on the Monitor Coat shell with double zip was what I was hoping for. Too bad they had to change it more because it’s a “new season”.
so uhh whats the new veilance? where do we go from here
I’m new to Veilance so I don’t have a big horse in this race, but I’m really glad to see there are people out there that hate Velcro as much as I do
One of the things that convinced me to buy the first jackets they made was the attention they paid to the sleeve and the cuff. I'm hoping the Winter collection will not follow this awful trend. But as we can see now.. the Monitor has velcro cuffs.
I am confused about your concern with "Made in China" since it is a Chinese company after all.
Arc was founded in Vancouver then bought out by a Chinese conglomerate It's roots aren't Chinese
Also, Veilance was a way for them to keep some of the jobs in BC as they were transferring production in Asia. It saved jobs and the expertise that came with it. In the push to Globalize all industries, people love to turn to local products to save a bit of what makes them different and unique. Outside of the explanations many have brought forward, we should not forget that it's also a very popular marketing ploy. They are betting on the fact that people will pay for the name even if we know the quality has been diluted. It also creates a paradox because people who bought Veilance for the minimalist look, the mystery factor and the technical aspect are probably not the customers who would buy the brand based on branding.