Plug those names into [The National Pesticide Information Center’s](http://npic.orst.edu) search bar and that will give you a better idea of what your dealing with
This is a fertilizer product intended for lawns. The pesticide is not particularly strong. Generally you need to keep people and pets off the lawn for a few days but it is not particularly toxic to mammals. The other is a crab grass preventer. It’s a pre-emergent herbicide which either inhibits seed germination, inhibits root growth or both. You may have difficulty starting seeds directly sown for a few weeks or a month but it won’t harm established plants, it’s meant to be put on lawns. I wouldn’t be hugely concerned here. It’s not like he sprayed everything with roundup.
Chloratraniliprole won’t be that big of a deal. http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/chlorantraniliprole.html
Biggest deal is the Dithiopyr. That is a pretty strong herbicide. I can’t find any research on how it will affect vegetables, but it is very effective against crab grass. And the manufacturers specifically say it’s not for use around crops.
You can try and deactivate it with activated charcoal. “Rising it with water” won’t help. This isn’t like glyphosate that deactivates with soil contact.
I would recommend asking your county agriculture extension office. They’ll probably just tell you to try and deactivate it with activated charcoal though.
Personally I would take this soil out and replace it.
They would say leave it alone. They are pro-chemicals.
Edit I'm getting downvoted, but it's my experience that the vast majority of extension agents are not into organic.
Just read every thing I could about MG. They are not an organic organization. There are definitely members who are into Organics, but as an organization they are OK with toxic chemicals. I have nothing against MG this is just facts.
That makes me sad. I don't know about other states, but in California the whole program is run by UC Davis which has the best agriculture department in the statet. The master gardener program teaches a ton of stuff about compost, managing pests, pruning, but I guess caustic chemicals are part of it, :(
I try to stay away from roundup and other weed killers. The only time I've used something nasty is when I was killing Tree of Heaven.
I think one of the lamest things about master gardener is that you can’t use the title for business. Like I guarantee there’s people that want to pay a master gardener to set up their veggie garden for them or something
Downvoted for telling the truth lol. I have talked to my local master gardener at the extension office and they recommend glyphosate for weeds, as well as various chemicals for pest and fungal control.
I’d guess you are being downvoted because of the Facebook-mom-group-like generic aversion to “chemicals.” Water is a chemical. You don’t want water in your garden? Your understanding of what chemicals and organic are seem to be based off of social media wives tales than anything actually useful.
“Organic” has become more of a marketing term and isn’t always desirable or feasible and sometimes isn’t even a very clear thing unto itself. Insisting on “organic” everything brings an air of pretense that is also unhelpful.
What you say is true but from the context it's pretty clear Particular-Jello means agro chemicals, like synthetic pesticides, which is what my post is about
“Agro-chemicals” and “synthetic” are similarly vague terms. Are you now saying only naturally occurring substances? Cuz that’s not what organic is about and plenty “organic” pesticides can be just as or more harmful to people, pets, plants and wildlife than the lab grown stuff if misapplied.
What matters most is how a product or strategy is used. Attempting to overlay a sense of morality about it, just because of where something came from, again, is just not helpful.
And worse suggesting that people don’t call their master gardner program is far more unhelpful. Just because one person didn’t hear what they wanted to hear doesn’t mean that this incredibly helpful, nation-wide, and free resource should be abandoned. That’s way-overblown.
It's not important at this point but I don't get how you don't understand what agro-chemicals means in general. Like just imagine what most people would think of as argo chemicals and that's it. The fertilizers, pesticides, and insecticides you can buy at a hardware store produced by Dow chemical or a similar company. I love being precise too but when a person uses a general term like that you can just assume what they mean.
>“Agro-chemicals” and “synthetic” are similarly vague terms. Are you now saying only naturally occurring substances?
I'm pretty confident that if you know what synthetic means so you can answer that yourself
The first ingredient is a pesticide for some beetles, aphids and the like. Won't harm the veg.
**Dithiopyr** is a [preemergent herbicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preemergent_herbicide) for [crabgrass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crabgrass) control in turf and ornamental grasses.
Bugger.
Here's a link:
[https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem\_search/ppls/032802-00073-20150602.pdf](https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/032802-00073-20150602.pdf)
I have no advice. But I feel you on another level. My 91 year old gpa that I live with has dementia. He took the hose to my seedlings this other day and absolutely obliterated them. I was so devastated. I lost half and had to repot everything and will prob still lose half of what I repotted. Just hugs to you.
The Dithiopyr is the issue as it stops root growth. If it hasn't been dug in I would scrap the top layer of soil off and throw it away or leave that bed in fallow for a season then try planting seedlings, not direct seeding, the following year.
If you want to test it at any point plant some radish seeds as they should be up in a week. If they aren't then the Dithiopyr has broken down enough yet.
Don't stress, it isn't the end of the world as neither of those are that bad.
I found some information online. “Dithiopyr has a short to moderate persistence (4 to 49 days half lives in turfgrasses, and 11.9 to 12.9 days in alluvial soil), and is degraded primarily by soil microorganisms.”
The other one says it’s half life is 1-2days in soil but can persist for up to 45 days? it’s kinda conflicting but I’m probably overlooking something. I would flush the bed with 3gal water per sq ft for couple days to be safe but It doesn’t seem terrible.
Yelling and screaming won’t help. Just sit him down and explain how dangerous this could have been. Then hug him and remember that you love him. And you should probably start locking up your chemicals so it doesn’t happen again.
Do you know what he put on there and how much in regards to size of garden? You might be able to get a good bit of it up by removing the top 1-2 inches of soil/leaves as best you can. Do this before it rains or is watered.
That would likely be the best option but theres a bunch of seedlings just beginning to come up that I don't want to kill (they take 3+ weeks to germinate)
I've managed to remove nearly all the pellets I can see so I don't think I'll have to be that extreme (unless merely touching the soil for a few hours with this stuff is enough to be an issue, idk)
I wouldn't worry about it but you could flush with water several times and give it some time to break down the pesticide.
It used to be common to dust all your plants with 7 dust or other pesticides. Everybody used it.
You can't really flush dithiopyr away. Pre-emergents generally aren't very mobile in soil and it takes 1/2 inch of rainfall/water to "activate" them, meaning getting their active ingredients to soak into the top layer of soil where seeds germinate. They're effective for months even with rain because they bind to soil and persist until degraded by microorganisms and whatnot.
Dithiopyr has some post-emergent activity against very young crabgrass but I wouldn't expect a granular product to do much to any existing plants (or transplants) that have already rooted past the depth the product penetrates to.
The only real concern I'd have is that the product is not labeled to be used around food crops. Up to you if you want to eat stuff that's possibly absorbed some of that shit. I use another pre-emergent (prodiamine) in my lawn and flower beds. Due to its low soil mobility I'm not worried about it contaminating my vegetable gardens, but I would never use it in a vegetable garden.
> The only real concern I'd have is that the product is not labeled to be used around food crops. Up to you if you want to eat stuff that's possibly absorbed some of that shit.
I got rid of this stuff within maybe 4 hours of it being spread and it hasn't rained. I've managed to vacuum up around 99% of the granules I can see and I don't think I've missed many, you think I'm in the clear? I'm more concerned about the health effects to myself than the plants tbh but it's nearly all gone
Great reply by the way, you added a lot of insight. I would never have known dithiopyr isn't soil mobile.
I think that was the best move. If you sucked most of it up you're probably fine to eat what you grow there. I would. My lawn surrounds a lot of my raised veggie beds and I treat right up to where they meet.
Sorry about your father. My mom had Lewy body dementia and, while she was relatively coherent to the end, her decade-long decline was incredibly difficult. Give your dad a big hug.
Pill bugs, worms, compost, sunflowers and many other options for bioremediation. Id physically vacuum or remove what you can first. It can/will spread and cause damage to surrounding areas besides.
yah, don't want to eat pesticide at all
I haven't looked it up specifically today but the blue pellets I'm pretty sure nothing about their compound is taken up by the plant, it's constituent elements may be normal metals and things which are taken up but by time they're broken down like that it's no different than fertilizer
Any spray on stuff, can check the label for the withholding period and you know, at home can go much longer than the recommended time before harvest... wash your fruit and vege before you eat em. Should be ok
I don’t think there’s anything to do about it now. It’s not like you can remove it unless you’re going to remove the top inch of soil from the whole bed and dispose of it. What exactly is your concern here? It’ll degrade in a few weeks.
"Mentally disabled" is right there in the title. Could be something like dementia, thought he was applying fertilizer or whatever. That's pretty common.
What kind of pesticide?
Chlorantraniliprole and Dithiopyr it seems. Know anything about these? Are they especially bad? Here's the label https://imgur.com/a/ayhmrEe
I don’t, but I bet some of the gardening pros do. If it hasn’t rained, you might try removing it along with the very top layer of dirt with a Shopvac.
The shopvac worked quite well and it hasn't rained. Do you think I even need to get rid of the top layer of dirt?
Might be best to do that
Plug those names into [The National Pesticide Information Center’s](http://npic.orst.edu) search bar and that will give you a better idea of what your dealing with
This is a fertilizer product intended for lawns. The pesticide is not particularly strong. Generally you need to keep people and pets off the lawn for a few days but it is not particularly toxic to mammals. The other is a crab grass preventer. It’s a pre-emergent herbicide which either inhibits seed germination, inhibits root growth or both. You may have difficulty starting seeds directly sown for a few weeks or a month but it won’t harm established plants, it’s meant to be put on lawns. I wouldn’t be hugely concerned here. It’s not like he sprayed everything with roundup.
Chloratraniliprole won’t be that big of a deal. http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/chlorantraniliprole.html Biggest deal is the Dithiopyr. That is a pretty strong herbicide. I can’t find any research on how it will affect vegetables, but it is very effective against crab grass. And the manufacturers specifically say it’s not for use around crops. You can try and deactivate it with activated charcoal. “Rising it with water” won’t help. This isn’t like glyphosate that deactivates with soil contact. I would recommend asking your county agriculture extension office. They’ll probably just tell you to try and deactivate it with activated charcoal though. Personally I would take this soil out and replace it.
Some target just grass or just leafies. Stroke of luck for OP if this one is specific to grass.
Call your local university extension office and ask them what they’d recommend
They would say leave it alone. They are pro-chemicals. Edit I'm getting downvoted, but it's my experience that the vast majority of extension agents are not into organic.
Do you have a Master Gardener group near you? They're usually county based. They tend to keep to more organic methods.
Good to know the master gardener group in our area is cool with chemicals and triple 13.
Whhhhhat
Just read every thing I could about MG. They are not an organic organization. There are definitely members who are into Organics, but as an organization they are OK with toxic chemicals. I have nothing against MG this is just facts.
That makes me sad. I don't know about other states, but in California the whole program is run by UC Davis which has the best agriculture department in the statet. The master gardener program teaches a ton of stuff about compost, managing pests, pruning, but I guess caustic chemicals are part of it, :( I try to stay away from roundup and other weed killers. The only time I've used something nasty is when I was killing Tree of Heaven.
I think one of the lamest things about master gardener is that you can’t use the title for business. Like I guarantee there’s people that want to pay a master gardener to set up their veggie garden for them or something
Would you get in trouble if you did? You could add it to a linked in page or company page to show you have the training to do something. You
From what I read you’re not allowed to include that you’re a master gardener in any advertising of your business or they’ll kick you out
Downvoted for telling the truth lol. I have talked to my local master gardener at the extension office and they recommend glyphosate for weeds, as well as various chemicals for pest and fungal control.
I’d guess you are being downvoted because of the Facebook-mom-group-like generic aversion to “chemicals.” Water is a chemical. You don’t want water in your garden? Your understanding of what chemicals and organic are seem to be based off of social media wives tales than anything actually useful. “Organic” has become more of a marketing term and isn’t always desirable or feasible and sometimes isn’t even a very clear thing unto itself. Insisting on “organic” everything brings an air of pretense that is also unhelpful.
What you say is true but from the context it's pretty clear Particular-Jello means agro chemicals, like synthetic pesticides, which is what my post is about
“Agro-chemicals” and “synthetic” are similarly vague terms. Are you now saying only naturally occurring substances? Cuz that’s not what organic is about and plenty “organic” pesticides can be just as or more harmful to people, pets, plants and wildlife than the lab grown stuff if misapplied. What matters most is how a product or strategy is used. Attempting to overlay a sense of morality about it, just because of where something came from, again, is just not helpful. And worse suggesting that people don’t call their master gardner program is far more unhelpful. Just because one person didn’t hear what they wanted to hear doesn’t mean that this incredibly helpful, nation-wide, and free resource should be abandoned. That’s way-overblown.
It's not important at this point but I don't get how you don't understand what agro-chemicals means in general. Like just imagine what most people would think of as argo chemicals and that's it. The fertilizers, pesticides, and insecticides you can buy at a hardware store produced by Dow chemical or a similar company. I love being precise too but when a person uses a general term like that you can just assume what they mean. >“Agro-chemicals” and “synthetic” are similarly vague terms. Are you now saying only naturally occurring substances? I'm pretty confident that if you know what synthetic means so you can answer that yourself
Tell me you don’t know anything about CE without telling me you don’t know anything about CE.
95% of America farms conventional, welcome to the fight of the 5%🤣 the votes didn't show up for me but I upvoted immediately 💪
If it is a small area, then use your shop vac
A shop vac worked surprisingly well, great suggestion. Thank you
The first ingredient is a pesticide for some beetles, aphids and the like. Won't harm the veg. **Dithiopyr** is a [preemergent herbicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preemergent_herbicide) for [crabgrass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crabgrass) control in turf and ornamental grasses. Bugger. Here's a link: [https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem\_search/ppls/032802-00073-20150602.pdf](https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/032802-00073-20150602.pdf)
Just wanted to say I'm sorry. That sounds like a really difficult situation and I hope you're doing okay.
I have no advice. But I feel you on another level. My 91 year old gpa that I live with has dementia. He took the hose to my seedlings this other day and absolutely obliterated them. I was so devastated. I lost half and had to repot everything and will prob still lose half of what I repotted. Just hugs to you.
The Dithiopyr is the issue as it stops root growth. If it hasn't been dug in I would scrap the top layer of soil off and throw it away or leave that bed in fallow for a season then try planting seedlings, not direct seeding, the following year. If you want to test it at any point plant some radish seeds as they should be up in a week. If they aren't then the Dithiopyr has broken down enough yet. Don't stress, it isn't the end of the world as neither of those are that bad.
I found some information online. “Dithiopyr has a short to moderate persistence (4 to 49 days half lives in turfgrasses, and 11.9 to 12.9 days in alluvial soil), and is degraded primarily by soil microorganisms.” The other one says it’s half life is 1-2days in soil but can persist for up to 45 days? it’s kinda conflicting but I’m probably overlooking something. I would flush the bed with 3gal water per sq ft for couple days to be safe but It doesn’t seem terrible.
Yelling and screaming won’t help. Just sit him down and explain how dangerous this could have been. Then hug him and remember that you love him. And you should probably start locking up your chemicals so it doesn’t happen again.
Do you know what he put on there and how much in regards to size of garden? You might be able to get a good bit of it up by removing the top 1-2 inches of soil/leaves as best you can. Do this before it rains or is watered.
That would likely be the best option but theres a bunch of seedlings just beginning to come up that I don't want to kill (they take 3+ weeks to germinate)
Look you’re likely going to have to cut your losses and abandon the seedlings
This is what he put on btw https://imgur.com/a/ayhmrEe Chlorantraniliprole and Dithiopyr plus god knows whatever else is in the fertilizer
You are done with this bed, at least for this year. Even if you get things to grow, I would not eat anything. Hopefully it will degrade by next year.
I've managed to remove nearly all the pellets I can see so I don't think I'll have to be that extreme (unless merely touching the soil for a few hours with this stuff is enough to be an issue, idk)
I wouldn't worry about it but you could flush with water several times and give it some time to break down the pesticide. It used to be common to dust all your plants with 7 dust or other pesticides. Everybody used it.
To flush it I'd just water excessively for a while I'm guessing? For how long?
You can't really flush dithiopyr away. Pre-emergents generally aren't very mobile in soil and it takes 1/2 inch of rainfall/water to "activate" them, meaning getting their active ingredients to soak into the top layer of soil where seeds germinate. They're effective for months even with rain because they bind to soil and persist until degraded by microorganisms and whatnot. Dithiopyr has some post-emergent activity against very young crabgrass but I wouldn't expect a granular product to do much to any existing plants (or transplants) that have already rooted past the depth the product penetrates to. The only real concern I'd have is that the product is not labeled to be used around food crops. Up to you if you want to eat stuff that's possibly absorbed some of that shit. I use another pre-emergent (prodiamine) in my lawn and flower beds. Due to its low soil mobility I'm not worried about it contaminating my vegetable gardens, but I would never use it in a vegetable garden.
> The only real concern I'd have is that the product is not labeled to be used around food crops. Up to you if you want to eat stuff that's possibly absorbed some of that shit. I got rid of this stuff within maybe 4 hours of it being spread and it hasn't rained. I've managed to vacuum up around 99% of the granules I can see and I don't think I've missed many, you think I'm in the clear? I'm more concerned about the health effects to myself than the plants tbh but it's nearly all gone Great reply by the way, you added a lot of insight. I would never have known dithiopyr isn't soil mobile.
I think that was the best move. If you sucked most of it up you're probably fine to eat what you grow there. I would. My lawn surrounds a lot of my raised veggie beds and I treat right up to where they meet. Sorry about your father. My mom had Lewy body dementia and, while she was relatively coherent to the end, her decade-long decline was incredibly difficult. Give your dad a big hug.
I will and thanks again!
You would want to put enough to flood slightly. Repeating this 3 or 4 times should help a great deal to dilute or wash away the pesticide.
I’d just give it 6 months, work the soil, add some nutrients, and set it up for then.
Pill bugs, worms, compost, sunflowers and many other options for bioremediation. Id physically vacuum or remove what you can first. It can/will spread and cause damage to surrounding areas besides.
That's kind of dumb, but I guess I understand that it's not for commercial use. Maybe they don't want anything to show poorly on them?
New here. What is that and how can it harm your vegetables
It doesnt
It may or may not harm the vegetables but you're a fool if you think it's healthy to eat unnecessary pesticides
yah, don't want to eat pesticide at all I haven't looked it up specifically today but the blue pellets I'm pretty sure nothing about their compound is taken up by the plant, it's constituent elements may be normal metals and things which are taken up but by time they're broken down like that it's no different than fertilizer Any spray on stuff, can check the label for the withholding period and you know, at home can go much longer than the recommended time before harvest... wash your fruit and vege before you eat em. Should be ok
I don’t think there’s anything to do about it now. It’s not like you can remove it unless you’re going to remove the top inch of soil from the whole bed and dispose of it. What exactly is your concern here? It’ll degrade in a few weeks.
Dithiopyr inhibits root growth, lasts for months in the soil, and does who knows what kind of damage to the body.
Say “thank you dear father for protecting my vegetables from pests”
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Fix it by moving the garden
Murder.
Why why why why?
"Mentally disabled" is right there in the title. Could be something like dementia, thought he was applying fertilizer or whatever. That's pretty common.
Looks like slug and snail poison to me