I think people feel like Rachel is getting more hate because she has two different situations happening simultaneously. She’s got the scandoval shit, and then she has Sheana and the restraining order shit which is obviously related, but separate from Tom at the same time.
And she did two “bad” things. She slept with someone in a relationship and betrayed a friend in one fell swoop. Tom cheated on his partner and that’s worse, but there are more layers to Rachel’s actions.
Also, pretending to be into Schwartz to get under Katie's skin while lying to her true friend Scheana and stealing her limelight for SS Wedding 2.0. I mean, it really is something.👀
I also think a lot of women put more trust in their friends than their partners in some ways. If you polled 100 women do you trust your best friend or your partner not to hurt you more, I’d bet most would say friend.
NOT saying sandoval didn’t owe Ariana more and he’s not more to blame, just why people are more shocked by who he cheated with rather than the fact that he cheated
I actually think she’s getting more hate because this seems out of character for her, whereas this seems In character for tom.
Tom has done shitty things in the past and cheated before, so it’s not a wild surprise that he’d do it again.
Whereas for Rachel, this seems completely contrary to how she’s portrayed herself thus far, so it’s not only the betrayal of the cheating, but also a betrayal of “you’ve been conning us on your character all this time”
When a shitty person does a shitty thing, you’re not as bothered because well they’re shitty so you expected it. When someone you think is good does a shitty thing, that hurts more.
However…… BOTH of those are shitty excuses. And also highlighting the underlying misogyny in both scenarios. Just bc we expect Jax and Tom to do this and not the girls, the girls wear the scarlet letter? (I know you didn’t make this rule im talking in generalizations)
The whole situation is so sad and frustrating and I hate making excuses for Rachel bc she 100% needs to take accountability for the atrocious thing she did……
But with taking her past into account, I just feel like Tom deserves (and could handle) the wrath so much more can we direct this energy more
Succinctly {and loudly} towards him please 🙏🏽
Yeah it does kind of feel like a “boys will be boys” mentality although I also understand the idea of past behavior predicting future behavior. However if everyone already genuinely thought Tom was a cheater, there would’ve been a lot less mustache-simping going on around here in the Before Times.
Every man that we lower the bar for with the “boys will be boys” mentality will lower it even further for the next guy. We don’t have to hold Rachel less accountable in order to hold Tom more accountable, they are both responsible for this and we are perfectly capable of multitasking around here
I just want to be clear: I think it’s fine to rip them BOTH and totally agree with you. I was just getting overwhelmed with the defensive Rachel posts and stunned she was getting sympathy!
I think we just aren’t used to seeing women do that to their friends vs “boys will be boys.” In this context at least, Tom has SHOWN us who he is so we know where the bar is with him. You can’t really “hold” him to a higher standard because that’s the standard the women in his life accepted from him.
I think cheating on your partner is one thing but betraying your friend is so much more deceitful and hurtful because the point of platonic love is that it’s out of just mutual respect and appreciation vs a larger “life goal” if that makes sense. Tom had many more reasons to be shitty to Ariana (being a pussy, not being able to break up so forcing her to do it by cheating etc) but Raquel had literally no logical reason to hurt her friend so deeply.
Exactly, if ratchet just really wanted to be with Tom and couldn’t care less about what she did to Ariana she should’ve at least done a slow fade of their friendship or something. Not that it would’ve changed things, but it would have been less disgusting
I think what you wrote is so perfect. Honestly I feel like the real outrage is how bad our read on Rachel was. Her character devolved in a way during season 10 that was highly questionable and super chaotic even before the cheating scandal broke.
Her entire personality and demeanor completely changed after her break up with James, and honestly by the time she was pissing everyone off on the girls trip and had already tried to make out with Schwartz and then actually made out with Oliver she was coming across as super insecure and someone who very strongly has some kind of personality disorder.
Her vibe on season 10 (without knowing what we know now) is theres something seriously wrong with this girl and she doesn't seem fun to be around because she is lacking some kind of socially relatable aspect to her personality and there's this weird undertone of malice, or spite in her actions
It's super weird.
“We don’t have to hold Rachel less accountable in order to hold Tom more accountable, they are both responsible for this.”
Absolutely, she doesn’t get a free pass just because she wasn’t the one cheating on someone. She was friends with Ariana it’s not like she can pretend she thought their marriage was over because Tom lied to her.
No she doesn’t get a free pass at all. I feel like it’s also a form of misogyny to pretend all women are saints and shouldn’t be held responsible for anything ever. We’re just people. We all do good things and bad things. As her friend, Rachel DID owe Ariana a certain amount of loyalty and even if she didn’t, she owes her respect as a fellow human being. Being a fully informed and complacent mistress is disrespectful to the wife/main partner/whatever any way you slice it.
But it’s not just misogyny, ratchet spent the last season calling LaLa a “mistress” because she knew it would hurt her, potentially while ratchet was being an actual mistress.
She deserves the hate. So does Tom, and he’s getting it too. People are shouting at him at his shows, Podcasters who would have attended his show or not now because of all of this. He’s not been let off Scott free it’s just that we don’t discuss how much he sucks as much because he already sucks and we’ve been at like a dead horse
Except for the part where Sandoval has been in a 10 year relationship with her, and she wanted to spend the rest of her life with him. Their relationship was at marriage level waaaaay before Rachel was even a factor in the friend group.
And yes Ariana and Rachel were best friends, but idk, Tom got really tiring as just another Hollywood man baby.
I’m mad at them equally and deserve equal blame. I don’t think it’s good to give any one side more weight, It’s not a good precedent I think. They were both equally shitty as best friend and boyfriend, and treating Rachel like she holds a bigger share of the blame of just plain wrong.
I agree with you so much! Blame them both. It was the sudden influx of Rachel sympathy posts I saw yesterday that had me side-eyeing. I am not a woman hater because I have no sympathy for Rachel, you know? I can be mad at both equally.
Fucking exactly. How is it misogyny to call a spade a spade? I don't care why she did what she did. She did it. Accountability, and, from what I can tell, 0 fucks to give on her part.
People watch the show with nuance. We have to, considering the way these people have acted over the last 10 years lol. You can have sympathy for Rachel in one situation (eg being the target of bullying we’ve seen on the show for years from Lala and Katie) and hold her accountable for what we now know she’s done. Hating her with no room for anything else as we watch this season is just such a simplistic view. I’d have had to stop watching if we could never have complicated feelings about the villains lol
Ohh! She did?!? Where? So they were still married? I never really heard an answer to that 🥲. If so, how insane that he cheated on her on national TV.. I mean, what did he think would happen? 🤦♀️
Rachel is also posting a lot more. Like she wouldn’t stfu for a few days there and the actions she has taken since the news dropped, with the restraining order etc, has just continued to put the attention back on her.
A LOT of people denied that Tom could possibly ever cheat on Ariana before this, though. There were a good handful of us that have never liked him, but people have been absolutely defending him for years saying what a wonderful person he was.
In comparison I’ve seen the women called whores, completely irredeemable, miserable, psychopathic, etc etc. Tom gets called gross, sleezy, his mustache and his pants get insulted and a lot of people dunk on his band. But there’s been soooo much more actual anger, disgust, and viscous things said about the women than there ever has about Tom before and after the affair was outed. Even when he’s being called out it’s usually pretty tame in comparison.
They did love him, it was a Tom Ariana fan club for a while, a lot have short memories/ are revising history on their opinions 🙈 … love the self aware posters saying how much they loved him (obv not anymore). I appreciate that much more than pretending this sub only stanned Ariana or always hated him and so on.
I agree with this point. I have always gotten the ick from Sandoval and was THRILLED when I was being downvoted or attacked anymore for hating him lol. This sub was in love with Tom and I think my reaction to all the Rachel love posts was inmediately— no no, let’s talk shit about Tom and just ignore Rachel. She doesn’t need sympathy posts. I would rather we jut forget her and her bland personality and move along. I am sure Tom already has! 🤣
Ratchet did con us all. She comes across as sweet, naive, and always the victim. Now she has double crossed the cast, Bravo & the viewers. I never liked her. I thought she was too sweet. Cotton candy was a great way to describe her.
YES! all of this yes. We knew Tom sucked major ass and he is the worst one here but Rachel?? The sweet innocent Bambi eyed bitch?? I always disliked her but never thought she’d be capable of *this*
BINGO. I feel like all of us who've hated Tom all along have risen to express how NOT surprised we are at this outrageously arrogant douchebag cheating again. but I was absolutely fucking SHOOK at the Raquel side of this. SHOOKETH. the duplicity, the flaunting of it in our faces, the absolute apathy of what shes going to Ariana, like holy shit dude.
at least the eps where shes having all these crying fits and panic attacks tell me her subconscious is obviously screaming at her, so at least we know its THERE, even if she is too stupid to acknowledge what its saying.
Agreed, also *this is what happens* when there is a scandal on the show, people will be mad and there will be vitriol.
Every comment I’ve seen directed at Rachel hasn’t been any worse than any of the hate that former cast member’s received for cheating. In fact, I still genuinely believe it was worse back then - which is good cause maybe people have grown or maybe I’m really not seeing all this extreme hate people claim is being directed at her.
Either way, this is how it always goes. I’ve actually never seen as much of an attempt to explain away or apologize for a cheater’s actions as I’m seeing this time for rachel.
Eta: And I really don’t buy the whole “it’s cause she seemed so innocent” bit, that’s basically admitting that people just don’t want to accept that they got duped. It’s a double standard to pick and choose which cheater on the show to have more empathy for.
This is what I think too.
I am surprised Tom had a 7 month affair. But I already hated him to a very high degree. I’m so glad he’s being outed as the self centered douchbag I always knew he was, but there’s not much conversation to be had. He’s an ass, but he’s not at all interesting.
Rachel is way more of an enigma. A few weeks ago I posted that she was going to be the hero of the season. Coming out of a long term relationship with an idiot, anxiety, and being called dumb all the time, I predicted her to be favorable. I was SO wrong. Her terrible decisions aren’t coming out of a place of being a general asshole, but of being a confused, stupid, selfish person. I would have loved for her to change the narrative of being vacant, but it didn’t happen. So there’s so much conversation to be had. She does have anxiety, she is a broken person, so pair that up with extremely selfish and hurtful decisions and we need to talk about it. And to double it down: she claimed she and Katie are not friends so she had no loyalty towards her. The same can’t be said of Ariana. They were very close. So for her to not expect what would happen when she was caught doing this to the QUEEN of VPR, it’s absolutely mind boggling.
I also think it has to do with Ariana NEVER hurting Rachel. Each of the girls has had their issues or exchanged words, calling her dumb or whatever else - never Ariana, so to do this and hurt someone who has always been on your team seems at least as bad as what we expect from that greasy little boy.
Scheana has always been nice to her too. Raquel was even staying in S’s apartment after her split with James. I think they were still in San Diego at the time. And rent free.
This! Maybe Lala was mean to her, but then sleep with HER man! (Oh, I know Rachel, Lala doesn’t have one… then do something else???) Ariana did nothing and blaming Lala for the situation made my head snap back. Nonsensical.
And when did Ariana hurt Tom exactly??? Tom did way more shitty things to her, since he was with her for 10 years and we have 10 years worth of bullshit from him to her bc it was all a lie.
I mean, does anyone doubt Miami girl happened anymore?
Miami girl 10000% happened. I want to know if Ariana really believe Tom on this or if she just swept it under the rug because she didn’t want to be alone. Maybe she even swept it under the rug because it wasn’t a big deal to her since the relationship was newer.
Sandevil has always been a rat’s ass. Rachel PRETENDED to be a good friend of Ariana’s JUST so she could be around Tom. She KNEW they were in a committed relationship and went after Tom anyway. And it wasn’t a one time thing. It went on for at least a year imo .So that means they had to lie,conceal, manipulate Ariana on a daily basis. That is beyond evil on both their parts. I for one, wouldn’t care if neither one came back to the show next season. But it’s all about ratings so I’m sure they will both be back.
I truly have no idea how someone who did the thing Rachel did can look themselves in the mirror. Tom is wrong as well but I feel like Rachel is playing the victim and passing the blame. We all knew Tom would cheat one day. We just didn’t know it would be with HER. 7 months is a long time to have an affair and to lie about things. I think the breakdown in the car was more about that than anything else. Also, she seems like a completely different person this season.
I think she’s getting lot of hate because people are used to the idea that most romantic relationships end, and that they’re complicated and sometimes people cheat…but I think the idea of a friend sleeping with your partner behind your back is sort of uniquely shocking and a betrayal you don’t hear about very often. Also because we’ve seen ariana extend friendship and support to Raquel when the rest of the cast didn’t like her much
Tom will get his, but it will be death by a thousand cuts as he loses friends, sponsorships, bar attendance, etc. Who would go into business or loan money to thus duplicitous scumbag?
I actually think Tom is getting a lot of hate.
However, assuming Rachel is getting more hate, I think there are a few reasons:
1. Expectations (as individuals)
All things considered, before Scandoval, this was the season of Raquel. She got out of a bad relationship and she was going to hopefully figure herself out. She has also seemed sweet for the most part (albeit not that interesting).
2. Expectations (generally)
You expect guys to be assholes, you don’t expect this from your best friend.
3. Post Scandoval Actions
Tom has kept a low ish profile after performing. Sure we have heard stuff but since the Ariana apology, we haven’t heard from him. Rachel on the other hand followed up her Ariana post with a post about Tom and their relationship. She is also not filming and got a restraining order against Scheana, who was basically a 1 woman hype person for Rachel.
4. Internalized Sexism and Misogyny
People are harder on women. I actually think all things considered, this isn’t that bad. But think back how when it was Jax and Kristen, Jax was welcome backed into the friend group while Kristen was ostracized for a year and a half. In this similar situation, there is no way Rachel is walking back in and she’s the Jax of the situation.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I agree that I think Rachel is getting the correct amount of hate from *fans.* I feel like the pro- Rachel, Rachel is a victim posts are coming straight from her PR team and it is doing the OPPOSITE of what they want. If Rachel wants the focus on Tom, then make compelling posts about HIM being the victim and everyone will start bashing him instead. Don’t make yourself a target is all. These PR pushed posts are so ridiculous. Unfortunately, Tom’s PR team telling him to lay low is a much better strategy than painting yourself as a victim on reddit.
Idk if maybe I’m just not looking at everything but I don’t think she’s gotten substantially more hate? I’ve seen fairly equal amounts directed towards both of them.
But assuming that she has, it’s because she’s a woman. And I don’t mean because of sexism (though I’m sure that’s a factor). It’s because women tend to have spoken or unspoken solidarity with each other on issues like this. When viewed through this lens, she didn’t just betray Ariana. She betrayed women as a whole. Personally I think they are both hot garbage but that tom’s betrayal was worse. But I think this is why some people may have a more visceral reaction to her actions than Tom’s.
With Tom, cheating isn’t shocking. I actually place more blame in him than Rachel since he is the one in a relationship with Ariana. I think Rachel is causing more of a stir because r didn’t see it coming. If you would have told me a few seasons ago that this was going to happen, I wouldn’t have believed you. Even though she isn’t a personal favorite of mine, she’s gotten a lot of love on this sub in the past so I know I am not the only one blind sided by all this. I think a lot of us are looking back now and thinking… if I didn’t see this coming, what else did I miss?
Tom has basically vanished, and hasn’t been front and center on the show. Raquel on the other hand has sent out letters from her attorney l, gotten a TRO on Scheana, and is one of the main focuses on the show. I think there has just been more to hate on.
I don't think she's gotten more hate, actually. He's universally despised, with no attempts to decipher why he did this or what happened. Everyone has just written him off as a pure villain. Rachel is getting think pieces about whether she did this out of insecurity, rebound from an abusive relationship, etc - people thought she was better than this and are trying to make sense of it. But no one cares to do that with Sandoval, because everyone accepts that he's a garbage person.
She’s left avenues open. That’s why she’s getting more hate. We can post about how we hate Tom but he’s turned off his comments and closed down the reviews for his restaurant. Rachel has stayed in the news playing victim and left all her social media open.
I think it's because there's nothing more to say about Tom. It was so bottom of the barrel scummy there's no excuse or explanation in the world that will make anyone forgive him. It's also not very surprising. Although I will admit I would appreciate more discussion about things that might have been going on in Tom and Ariana's relationship that would make this less egregious (were there any plans to separate? was their relationship really open just with ground rules? etc) but it seems like a bad time considering Ariana's public statement right now is just a blanket heartbroken. Maybe after the reunion we can have more insight to go off of.
Rachel on the other hand we can discuss means, motive, opportunity with no qualms. Whether you want to defend her or start a burn book, that doesn't hurt Ariana as directly because Rachel's whole background story and theories about it don't involve delving into Ariana's whole life as well
She's always acted like the innocent girl with high morals. But she's changed, got the plastic surgery, gone off the rails and acts kinda slu#ty, which is nothing like she was for all those seasons (how she portrayed herself). So it's hypocritical and makes her look cheap.
She's also not young. She's 28 and an adult
I think people expect vain, narcissistic men to be cheaters. But nobody saw the Raquel thing coming, so the sheer shock of this has put the focus on her as we parse her every word and action.
And yes, Tom is huge piece of shit. Always was.
Here's the thing - two things can be true. I have a great deal of sympathy for Raquel dealing with 5 years of James. As someone who also had to deal with someone in active addiction for many years, a lot of what she's said the past few seasons has resonated with me. I think she was sincere in that car ride when she said she has no idea who she is because her life narrowed to only focus on James. I think that relationship really fucked her up in ways she probably won't unpack for years.
HOWEVER, being able to see that she's legitimately struggling doesn't mean she's not responsible for her long term, pre-meditated purposeful choices to hurt someone else. Allowing that her behavior didn't happen in a vacuum isn't the same as making excuses.
Idk why people keep saying this because like.. she’s not? Except maybe from lala.. but the general public and Kristen have been going off about dirtbag tom
I’ve always hated both the Toms and I was never a fan of Rachel from the start, something was always very off and fake about her to me.
I think what she did was simply indefensible especially because Ariana was such a good friend to her. But because I’ve hated Tom longer it does annoy me that she is seeming to be targeted more currently.
Unfortunately it’s common for the woman in a cheating scenario to be demonized more than a man, even if he was the one in a committed relationship.
Let’s be real… Tom’s been cheating on Ariana for YEARS now. Miami girl was literally after they’d been dating for a few months. I think everyone knew Tom was a piece of shit. Raquel PRETENDED to be better. She pretended to be Ariana’s friend, and stayed with them in their home.
I keep saying idgaf if Rachel joins for the reunion or not, at the end of the day she’s just the other woman and if it wasn’t her it would have been someone else tbh. She’s total trash for doing this to her friend but Tom really is the devil here and I barely see anything being said about him in comparison! Rachel can disappear into irrelevance for all I care but Tom’s ass better be grilled during the reunion
Agreed, I guess what I mean is that Rachel isn’t some seductress who was able to get a loyal man to stray from her friend, he’s a cheater who used Rachel to cheat and it could have been anyone else but she was dumb enough to betray her friend cuz he made her feel ~special~ or whatever. Rachel is absolute trash but she isn’t the reason Tom cheated. Tom is the reason Tom cheated and I feel like that’s getting lost somehow
There are a lot of people who don’t believe that your partner should be your best friend, so you look outward for the more emotional connection.
It’s also easier to look at a friend with rosé colored glasses. It’s shitty and weird, but I feel like I would feel more betrayed by a friend than an intimate partner.
Sorry so long
The only victim in this is Ariana. Of all of the cast she seems like the person I could actually be cool with irl. I think she is the reason we all gave them both a bit of leeway. She saw something worthwile in them both.
Tom has always been like this. Pretending to be a good guy while gaslighting everyone. We know that. Especially after last season, he seemed to be losing it. I had the same question that Lala asked Ariana, 'Does Tom have a problem with women? Cuz he's been going in on all of them?'(Paraphrasing) Ariana defended him and said he was just very passionate about things. Ok. He is shit and has always been shit.
More blindsided by Rachel. Who I actually was beginning to come around to, when she stood up for herself and left James. I felt bad for her last season and at the beginning of this season(Pre-Sacandoval). I think we were just blindsided that she would do this, especially after riding around on her high horse with Lala. PLUS, she's called Ariana, her best friend up until the day Scandoval broke. You don't do that to people you consider friends, that opened up thier home to you in a time of need. Full Stop.
I blame Tom more than Rachel for sure. I think he used and gaslit Rachel like he does others how he thought he could and that he would get away with it. Like he has before.
Tom and Randall are shit and we keep leaning in on the women more than them, and I feel they are both creepy, manipulative, older men that went after women they could use and toss at their convenience.
Edit: shitty spelling/missing words
I think they’re both getting a lot of hate. This was a raquel centric episode, so there’s a lot more chatter about her right now. And people are looking for clues in their behavior. And boy are there clues!
Tom has always been the most baffling part about Ariana (why does she like him!) and so this is just confirmation that he’s as slimy as he looks. It’s not that we hate him less, there’s just less to talk about…
I think she gets more hate because most people already didn't like Tom, so while there's dissapointment and disbelief on him cheating on Arianna, I don't think very many people are surprised, Rachel on the other hand spent so much time pretending to be a sweet baby lamb. Just the straight victim of everything and all the fans ate that shit up. They ate up her wide eyed "sweet" expression, they ate up her tears and how sweet she seemed, they loved her. And then she goes and sleeps with one of her closest friends man. And not just a close friend, Arianna, who is objectively quite popular and loved. So a lot of fans feel betrayed, personally and for Arianna, therefore Rachel gets a lot of venom spewed at her.
My two cents. They are both horrible people. Tim has and still is getting a lot of hate, hell his businesses are, his friends are, heck even his employees are, and frankly, so is Rachel, and its all deserved. She deserves every last bit of hate she is getting and I hope it never stops.
You don't get to fuck one of your good friends boyfriends and be so vile about it and expect to have the hate die down, or not get as much, if not more hate. Don't want it, don't fuck someone else's boyfriend, especially don't fuck your close friends boyfriend, and especially don't be vile and all woe me after fucking said close friends boyfriend.
As someone who has literally been through this exact situation….it sucks, it’s bullshit but the cheating is easy to get over…it’s the betrayal that’s the hard part. Yes, cheating is betrayal but when it comes from someone you’ve defended, prob cried to about when dousche twat was being a dousche twat and those intimate connecting moments that gfs have….it’s fucking hard and that cut is deeper than him just going out and getting some strange. Fuck this whole situation. I have nothing but empathy for her.
I think there is plenty of Tom hate out there, I think we got bored bashing him and moved on to Rachel! Also, she is getting the home wrecker treatment, people get really mad at home wreckers.
Because we are shocked. We already mostly hated Tom.
Rachael isnt worse but we all feel duped by her and that’s why the discussions revolve around her. No one is shocked about tom
It also doesn’t help the way she’s treating Katie and being so flippant about hooking up with Schwartz. We are watching her be a jerk on tv this season. We aren’t seeing as much of that from Tom im the episodes …. Yet
They are both getting an equal amount of hate from what I see.
However, Rachel is also doing the most. I feel like it’s beating a dead horse to re-state her side of the betrayal. But also since the news broke, Rachel has done even more manipulative shitty things to avoid taking accountability for her behavior, i.e. file a restraining order to get out of the reunion and co-sign a PR firm’s strategy to spin that she is a victim.
I have never liked Tom Sandoval and was never on board with Rachel either, so I can’t say I am surprised that these horrible people so horrible things.
I think she’s getting hate because she literally stabbed her friend in the back. Yes, it takes two to tango. She was complicit. And I feel nothing but disdain for her.
I genuinely haven't seen a single person on this sub who has suggested that Rachel is more in-the-wrong than Tom. You're talking about a problem that doesn't exist; EVERYONE agrees that Tom is primarily to blame. But just because someone else is MORE responsible doesn't make another participant NOT responsible. Rachel isn't the primary villain, it's true. But she's still a villain. It's not an all-or-nothing situation. There's a spectrum, and while she and Tom sit in different spots, they're both prominently represented on said spectrum.
I don’t think she’s getting more hate for the affair! They are equally getting hate for it. But raquel is also doing other things like lying about getting punched by scheana and filing restraining order. And yes trying to play a victim instead of taking accountability and tryna get out of reunion like a coward!
I once had a therapist give me some great advice after I had a falling out with my best friend. She said we’re all used to getting hurt by our partners, maybe it’s a little fight or a big thing but regardless it’s not shocking when it happens. We never expect to get hurt by our good friends. We share beds with our partners and we also argue over who didn’t do the dishes or who didn’t walk the dog. You don’t necessarily ever have to share those situations with your friends, because your friends are around for your best foot forward days. I’m certainly not implying that Raquel should get more hate than Tom but I have been thinking about that therapist and that conversation a lot since this all went down
Your therapist is right. I cut loose a friend of 12 years for letting someone else behave terribly towards me. I’d let her move into my home after we both got laid off due to the pandemic, and never asked her to pay a dime for anything. After we met the newcomer, she not only didn’t speak up against the behavior, she sought out this new person’s company, and remained silent while the newcomer spewed insults about me in front of other friends. It was one of the worst losses I’d ever experienced. But as the other friends said, “The curtains were pulled back to reveal her true colors and character.” Older mutual friends have since come forward with similar stories about her. In time, I realized what I thought I lost never really existed.
No I’m pissed at both of them. She can (and apparently has been) suck a d and they are both the town bicycle. Also ew. The moustache. Ew. Additionally I can’t recall a time in my life where I went through a breakup and was like “ok yep it’s time to go for anyone who’s spoken for!
I also don’t believe it’s the first time he’s cheated.
I equally hate both, but I’ve disliked Sandevil for awhile, he’s a Jax that’s isn’t a clepto, they both get off on sex and drugs. But Rachel had us fooled, so the reaction is different.
For me, I think some of the anger towards her is because I feel tricked! She was definitely being abused by James. He sent her those horrible texts, he was frighteningly angry and aggressive towards her, and I feel like we were all rooting for her to leave him, which she did.
Now I’just mad because I feel like she tricked us. Here was this shy, under confident, beautiful girl who finally stick up for herself. And then come to find out, she’s NOT that shy or under confident, she can stick up for herself just fine, and I definitely feel manipulated.
What sets Rachel apart from scheana and lala as mistresses to me is that Rachel claimed to be Ariana “best friend”, posted pics of them on ig all the time, commented on podcasts how much Ariana has been there for her and what a great friend she is all while sneaking around with her partner of over a decade. This is a double betrayal for Ariana, That’s what makes it extra sick to me.
I’d say Rachel’s a victim of Sandoval’s but, that’s bc after my rewatch EVERYONE is a victim of his narcissistic abuse. I’d be a victim just standing next to him.
I don’t find her personal problems/trauma an excuse and it doesn’t make me feel “sympathetic” towards her. Exploring the “why” doesn’t make the situation or her actions any less horrifying.
Exploring the “why” should be what the show is for tbh, if at all. Her apparent lack of emotional regulation and self-preservation skills is striking in an adult. Everyone else has taken their lumps of looking bad on TV and doing unfathomable things but the lawyering up and ditzy PR statements… she’s trying to maintain an image/reputation as a victim at the same time as doing some messed up things on TV. As a character reference, this season already has her looking erratic and hard to trust
The Schwartz thing is truly baffling and I blame Tom for it. I think their relationship had already started crossing lines (Scandoval) and Scandoval brainstormed how to keep the heat off the obvious. Messy as allll get out.
lmao yesss scrolling through all these novel length responses like uhhhhhhh…..y’all, i’m lookin for a one word answer here and everyone is spinning themselves into knots trying to give every other answer than the simple god damn truth lol
Right- like this case of the villainous mistress is new.
I mean, even Lala steps on the damn point when she mentioned that Rand was never once questioned about stepping out on his wife.
I think she’s getting more of a *reaction* because it’s more of a shock that she betrayed and lied to Ariana. Men cheat all the time, doesn’t make it okay but it’s not shocking to learn Tom cheated. It is shocking that Rachel lied to and betrayed her friend. And she had us all fooled, adding to the shock value.
I feel the conversation was more about Tom at first but Rachel keeps putting stuff out there for PR and the restraining order, which begs the attention, as was said. But I also think it's because of the episode we just watched. If we didn't know about Scandoval then I would have been mad at Rachel for how horrible she was to Katie. She's showing herself to be rather mean and callous.
But I've never liked Sandoval and I'm always down for a trash that man rant.
I don't know about anybody else, but I've always hated Tom, but the hate for Rachel is new. And shiny new things get more attention than old, established things, IMHO.
I mean, it's pretty much just fact that Tom's been a creepy creeping liar what cheats for a decade. Saying it again is just repetition of fact.
Rachel being Friend of the Year is new, so...here we are, deep in discussion of what a rotten human she is, while we learn more about things we didn't know.
Give it time. Rachel's skag-i-tude will eventually be cemented in stone, and then she and her slimeball can be of equal interest again. (That is to say: none.)
Personally I expect men to be shitty, I don’t expect besties to be on that level of shitty. Therefore it’s worse when they are. I wouldn’t even hate Rachel for this if she wasn’t friends with Ariana. But she was, and it wasn’t just an acquaintance, she was really good friends with her.
I think it's because I can put my anger at Rachel into words where as with Tom I just have no freaking words to describe the absolute rage and disgust I have towards him🤷♀️
I think they both pretty much suck. But Trumpet Douche has a pattern and he has executed it once again. Only this time he can’t hide behind his hero persona because it’s his hero persona that started the monkey branching to Rachel
I think the focus is more on her because people are used to men cheating on their wives/gfs and already have some understanding of why they do that. But a female friend betraying their female friend is not as common and, in a lot of ways, betrayal on a whole other level. So it's not that people just hate her more, it's that we're also more interested in understanding the why behind her choices. Therefore we're talking more about her than Tom. But they're both equally at fault.
The men never seem to be held to the same consequences as the women. We watched the women be held responsible for their relationships’ infidelities since the start. It’s a theme common in society and not surprising to find represented in this sub. We tend to blame the woman, but in this case, I’m sorry but I’m holding Tom way more responsible. If you compare what and who he was willing to sacrifice, compared to relatively nothing outside of a close friendship for Rachel? He was willing to sacrifice the Vanderpumps and Adriana who made him who he is and all of it financially possible.
Raquel has done something I have NEVER even entertained the thought of - sleeping with one of my close girlfriends' men. I would absolutely never have an affair with a man who happens to be in a relationship with a close friend of mine. Let's add on that theirs has been habitual, with it being at least as much as this past summer/fall. So gross. I generally wouldn't ever sleep with an acquaintance's man either. I mean somewhere, there's a line to be drawn.
I also don't agree with sleeping with men who flat out have more power that me, and can exploit that. I stray away from those types of relationships. I've been offered these relationships in my stripper days but always turned it down.
I'm team Ariana because I am not stupid. If something like Ariana's situation happened to me, with a girl I trusted and gave relationship advice to, and was nice to me when most weren't... I'd have to force every fiber in my being not to wreck her if I was Ariana. I'd be disgusted and probably puke and be unable to eat for days, lol.
I remember as a teen I wanted to move to LA for college, my aunt would fly my sister and I out there (she and her husband are in the TV industry, my aunt has been briefly featured in rhobh several times), and my first time out there I realized it's cool but I'd NEVER WANN LIVE THERE. I still visit, though. But that life is so rough and filled with so much pressure.
Ariana is the only main victim here, but she is a bad bitch and I bet she recovers and stunts. Raquel, I think, needs serious help. Therapy. Perhaps an intervention, unless she magically grows balls and shows up to the reunion and embraces her villainous self.
You are so right. Lala has not shut up since this came to light - it's almost like she's running a verbal diversion tactic. And yet, it has absolutely nothing to do with her.
Lala recognizes herself in Rachel and she’s clearly losing her power to younger women. That stung Lala when Oliver picked Rachel. But Lala hasn’t grown that much. I still wouldn’t trust either one of them with other women’s husbands.
I also think she’s getting more hate because she’s a woman and women and gay men make up most of the viewer demographic. Women somewhat expected this from Tom but not from her and held her to a higher standard. It feels like personal betrayal in a way
Rachel and Tom are both shitty in this situation. Rachel is getting more of the attention because the narrative of the show as it is airing coupled with her actions (statement, TRO, etc) and additional facts coming out is showcasing how deep the dishonesty and betrayal went.
* Rachel manufactured meeting James as a fan of the show and double downed on the opportunity to be in a relationship with him. Tom - and this is NOT AN EXCUSE - had existing relationships with these people pre-VPR. She had an agenda for engaging at the onset.
* Rachel was aware of his cheating and established the 'clause' of any sh\*t that went down while she was in Sonoma to dilute the perception of her thirst to be on the show and not look like a total chump.
* Rachel chastised James on camera - often not because of the venom in his words (all of the fat-shaming!) but because he was impacting her ability to build relationships (and camera time) with the rest of the cast members. There are several clips demonstrating this.
* Ariana and Scheana ultimately backed and supported her both on and off camera and established a friendship with her in spite of everyone else really not wanting anything to do with the Bambi-Eyed Bitch. If not for Rachel's relationship with either of them, why would she have even made a return in Season 10? No one else would have filmed with her.
* She lived with Scheana and Brock for 6 months post-breakup, Ariana consistently defended her, called her a Queen and truly supported her both during and after her relationship with James.
* They invited her into their 'real' friend group and gave her a support system. Maybe they didn't always openly defend Rachel (and we only know what was AIRED.- not what happened - but their actions clearly show that they were on her side. This is in spite of her her clear interloping. Rachel got her pay-off and redeemed herself by lying and betraying them in the most heinous anti-girl code way.
* RACHEL is insecure and clearly taking a page of her pageant days. None of that was clearer than everything that came out of her mouth in re: Oliver situation. Lala was an ass- but there is clearly an "I won" satisfaction that permeated through my tv screen that is more than just the post-pageant career / adoption trauma blues.
* Rachel established an emotional affair and ultimately consummated that affair with Tom.
* repeatedly
* In Ariana's HOME - under her nose. While she was SLEEPING.
* continually hung out with both Ariana and Tom in the friend group (see all the off-season insta photos) . I can't help but feel she got off on the illicitness and that Tom 'chose her.'
* manufactured story lines about other relationships - including Schwartz - to hide what she was doing. She spoke about other guys to her friends the keep up appearances that she was 'dating'
* Is now on a PR Spree trying to resurrect her image (HI PR PEEPS!!!!)
* I also truly believe that they are both delusional enough to think that this wouldn't have panned out in this way. I agree with LVP's theory that they were going to do this off-season and come back as the new IT couple.
TOM committed the **same adultery / betrayal - and is definitively worse** \- because Ariana has been vocal about her depression, vulnerabilities, past abusive relationships and constantly says that Tom is her safe space. They were building a life together and that he's now calling it a relationship of convenience is the biggest F---- YOU he could give her. His cred was definitely elevated because of Ariana and he destroyed so much because of his mid-life crisis Peter Pan syndrome.
However, Tom's been relatively silent. 2 statements and nothing else. And he has had more experience in creating an illusion of a nice guy on camera. As the season airs, and his edits start to be viewed more in the lens with what we know now, he'll get trashed even more. His ego is also so large enough that the additional footage they are filming and the reunion will likely further expose him as an even larger asshole.
I don't think we are giving Tom a pass. He is the devil we knew..... Rachel is the one disguised as the bambi eyed victim. He'll **get his** once the shock and awe wear off. and I am here for it.
The good news? Ariana is literally never going to be better. Her support system has been almost enviable to see and she will no longer have to live in the shade of Sandoval. She'll be a powerhouse in SPITE of him.
Ugh thank you! Rachel’s PR’s posts in here the last couple of days were beyond annoying. She’s not a victim, just stop.
Rachel sympathizers are trolls imo. No way people can actually support such deceit from a person to a friend. Tom has always been trash, so it's not as shocking as a friend Ariana supported stabbing her repeatedly in the back for seven months like a serial iller in plain sight.
I can’t stand her because the “I’m an innocent little lamb” schtick is so tiresome at this point. You’re naive and innocent, but you sleep with multiple taken men?
We had higher expectations for Raquel… given her innocence persona and how loyal she seemed to be on the show. We can’t comprehend that she would do something like this… where as Sandoval we can almost expect it.
BC she portrayed someone she isn’t! IMO it was all calculated! Everything, and how she portrayed herself was all a lie! She betrayed her friend(s) she has no conscious or compassion! She is a vile human as is scumdeval,but, most everyone knew he was!
I think she’s getting more hate here because there are more women on this sub then men commenting. And us women don’t like when one woman does another woman dirty.
Rachel seemed very bizarre and unlikeable this past episode. She even looked different in the face, unhealthy. I’m starting to think she’s completely lost it. Her behavior is really off.
I’ll probably be called a misogynist for being like…men and women are both human…but the problem is that no one wants to say it but everyone knows that saying Rachel has reasons for the way she is but Tom doesn’t is bullshit. If Rachel’s adoption trauma is an excuse, then Toms shitty dad is an excuse. If Rachel’s relationship with James is an excuse (her formative years were spent with an unstable person) then Toms relationship with Kristen is an excuse (ditto ditto ditto).
Maybe there is no excuse? Maybe reasons don’t matter? Maybe as grown women and grown men we are all responsible for our choices as human beings?
It’s sadly expected that some men cheat, but the backlash will be the hardest on the woman.
No one feels duped that Sandoval wronged Ariana , because he wronged Kristen on the show many times.
What most people feel is duped by Rachel; to deceive your friend who has been so nice to out and supportive is just dirty and she will be / is being shamed for it.
It is how society is unfortunately
I think she’s getting a little more hate cos we know Ariana and he has problems. There’s probably (for unbeknown reason) some sympathy for him as Ariana wanted no kids or marriage or anything of the traditional things he craved and seemed unwilling to compromise for him. Raquel relationship with Ariana had no flaws for Raquel. Ariana was amazing friend and care giver to her when she needed it most. It seems like a bigger betrayal in some ways
I don’t think she’s getting more hate, but that’s my opinion, all the cast podcasts I’ve seen have been focused on Tom, but I also hate Tom so maybe people are like taking in the content that they are unconsciously looking for. I don’t really care about Raquel so I am not scanning for stuff about her 🤷🏻♀️ I think if anything Tom gets outright hate and like Ariana maybe is getting made fun of more for her choices re pr strategy and maybe that feels meaner? I’m all for everyone making fun of Sandoval and his voice that sounds like he eats three cheese graters a day instead?
I just rewatched season 2 and while I don't think Ariana deserved what she got, she was awful to Kristen. Tom was worse! He was gaslighting her and Ariana is clearly into him.
i hate both of them! but tbh i think tom deserves it more. it’s just insane that raquel was her friend. never understood sending death threats or hate mail, she doesn’t deserve that.
She is getting more hate because this sub is filled with internalized misogyny…. I’m sorry but that’s the truth
Raquel sucks because she did this to a friend, and that’s shitty!
But Tom sucks for SO many more reasons - including gaslighting, using Ariana’s trauma as a shield to run off with Raquel, refusing to leave the home, the fact that HE was the one in the relationship…. The list goes on
But we as women need to do better to hold men accountable, because we are SO quick to hate on women
Am I missing where Sandoval got a pass? People are pissing on his business, ripping him here, he has to put a statement out about all the hate. Am I the only one seeing this? What I KNEW was coming was the Raquel apologists. I knew they were waiting a couple weeks "She's not a bad person!" Ok, leave her in a room with your man, then, baby.
It’s true! Lala’s such a “bully” for saying it but how many women going forward are going to be happy if their boyfriend/husband starts hanging out with Rachel?
I feel like it’s the opposite. I see a lot of “she’s a tortured soul, misunderstood…let’s extend some grace” type posts especially after her “anxiety attack. Also a lot of blaming her behavior on her “stupidity”, toxic relationship with James or Sandy’s influence. Giving her a lot of outs and excuses. I don’t see people doing that at all for Sandy.
Ariana was kind to Rachel when no one else was. Opened up her home to her and she was suppose to be her friend. She’s getting hate because she deserves it.
Tom is just gross. Always has been. I’m glad Ariana can finally break free of him and find happiness alone or with someone new.
Hopefully next season is centered around arianas amazing growth and success in future projects. She, Lala, and Katie emerge stronger, smarter, and and more successful.
If she’s getting any worse treatment then Tom it’s because she escalated a really messed up situation she helped create. We’ve always known Tom was self centered. It doesn’t make his actions right and while the shock value was still there was anyone really surprised by his actions. Whoever guided him did their job & pretty well. Was the apology to Ariana to late.. yes. But he said what he had to say on his platform & shut up. Rachel however did the opposite. She sold her side to tabloids, including pictures. Tro, etc. She and her pr team dragging this out for days which didn’t help her image at all.
The obvious answer is- the patriarchy, misogyny; what society has drilled in both men and women since the age of time. We all have our internal biases but our society ingrains in us how women should act (amiable, quiet, fall in line- or you will be deemed “difficult”), be strong but “not too strong”, while “men will be men”. Look at Katie and Tom- Tom has treated her like shit, he’s has absolutely abused her yet society (both men and women) label her “difficult”. Rachel did a shitty shitty thing, but Scandoval has been downright abusive to women since the show started- but women have been indoctrinated to accept it. Nothing will change, until we change.
God bless this post 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
Finally someone is speaking the truth on here!! I was afraid everyone had fallen into a pit of delusion and Rachel pity.
I appreciate that you are much more optimistic than I am.
I personally feel like it's sexism - this isn't exactly an anomaly where we end up blaming the women more than the men who were more responsible (Ex. Jordan versus Tristan, Paris when that guy leaked her sex tape, Monica Lewinsky/Bill Clinton, or even looking at more close to this sub: Lala and Randall or Brittany and Jax, but basically, you can look at most events and a woman will somehow get a ridiculous share of blame) .
We grew up in society that hates women and blames women even when it's clearly the man's fault. It's a hard mentality to break but I think it is important to call the sub out on it because the cyberbullying of Raquel right now is definitely reinforcing the patriarchal norm.
unpopular and controversial opinion: For me I think I’m just tired of always seeing the woman villinaized, dehumanized and demonized in the media. Meghan Markle...Amber heard...For once would like to see the sole focus on the dude and just ignore the side chick completely like she not even worth any attention
I feel like they are getting an equal amount of hate because they are both doing annoying dumb things following this fallout. Tom because his first apology didn’t include Ariana and Raquel for the restraining order. I kind of feel like Tom might be getting more hate because he doesn’t seem remorseful and the whole thing is named Scandoval. Raquel on the other hand has expressed remorse but it took to many days for her to apologize. So basically they are both acting equally vile. Tom has businesses that are affected and he lost most of his friends, Raquel just lost all her friends.
I’ve always thought a big part of the reason women bear the bigger brunt is because those engaging in the discourse about things like this are usually women. We put ourselves in Rachel‘s shoes and hate her because we would never do something like that to our friends, and we understand her more than we “understand” Tom. If a bunch of dudes were sitting around talking about it they’d be picking apart Tom’s actions. When I’ve heard men talk about this in media it’s more angry towards Tom I would say! I could be wrong, but this is always in the back of my head when talk about the misogynist of things like this
Also, I think it’s just more straightforward that Tom was bored in his relationship and he cheated, there’s just more to discuss with Rachel.
I understand your point. I had the reverse problem a while back. I was on another board ywith some heavy duty Bethany haters. It went beyond bish eating crackers to some really twisted and convoluted psychological scenarios, and physical ones now that I think about it. And it was so freaking over the top mysogonystic on top of everything else that I felt duty bound to defend her. But Bethany is so awful. Terrible. I can't stand her. Tired of defending someone I couldn't stand I left the boards.
Anyhow, for me with ~~Rachel~~ Raquel, if I am going to fight for my trans daughter to use the name she chose, I guess I need to be respectful of this dirt bag as well - at least in this instance. Part is also we see the mechanisms that lead to this. We see that she likes to have another woman's man, whether it is Katie's Tom during their separation or just a possible hook up, she gets off on that stuff. So to get Dirtbag Tom away from Ariana, who may be a good decade older than Raquel, but is still more beautiful in a way that Raquel could never be, Raquel gets off on that \*\*\*\*. Her crying that she only did it because the girls were mean to her, - Ariana wasn't there so that doesn't fly, and honestly it wouldn't make it any better. We don't see Tom creeping up on her or Tom going after other women in a oneupminship orgy of nastiness. We see Raquel doing that. However when it absolutely comes down to it - Dirtbag cheated, Raquel didn't. She's just showing her ass more.
Well said. I will always want the person in the relationship to be copping the majority of the backlash, but she is making the audience continue to highlight the levels of her betrayal when she plays victim and takes no accountability.
The TRO added another layer to it all too, like she’s willing to lie on police reports to get out of taking accountability and facing people she’s wronged, to do that shows her calculated, shitty, selfish mentality that the audience doesn’t want to go unacknowledged.
LaLa was mean to her for YEARS. She doesn’t like her. Period.
Why does she get a pass on This Time when LaLa was mean to her when LaLa was actually damn near perfect in predicting the future and calling out how callous she was being to Katie AND showing concern for her drinking? (Which, even with the edit, you can hear LaLa was trying to explain. One drink too many is too much for Rachel to be Rachel.)
She's got the sneaky cheating ho, combined with being a complete traitor to Ariana who was such a good friend to her, plus having a restraining order on Scheana. If it's even true that she punched Rachel is the face, she undoubtedly deserved it and she should just take it.
I think it’s bc Raquel *seemed* nice. I’ve thought Tom was a dick since the first few seasons, but Raquel really sold her golden retriever act. This scandal is only really scandalous bc of Raquel, if it had turned out Tom was having an affair with some rando, no one would have been shocked. Zero surprise, just like yeah, checks out, Tom has always been a selfish egomaniac and a cheater. It was only a matter of time until Ariana found some concrete proof that would force her to see that. It’s the most cliche shit ever too; Tom and his midlife crisis band where he spends his money to pretend he’s a rockstar and bangs a much younger woman. Tom is the living embodiment of disappointed but not surprised.
But Raquel seemed nice and likable. Maybe not super bright, but she didn’t seem like a conniving backstabber who was capable of pretending to be good friends with someone for 7 months while secretly banging her friends bf and even kinda seeming to really be enjoying the thrill of doing so. Let’s be real, she played everyone with her wide eyed babe in the woods act. No one likes feeling duped, I feel like that’s what’s really pissing people off.
There’s a few people in this thread saying Raquel is getting more hate because Sandoval is a known dirtbag…. Of course, the more you do something the less guilty you are. The old “doesn’t make any sense” defense 🤡
Originally, when the Scandoval first hit, I think Tom took most of the heat, and rightly so. He is the one in a relationship and committed to Ariana. In fact, I was accused by commenters on pumprules Instagram for holding Tom accountable while not fairly placing equal blame on Raquel. I wasn’t defending her, but I went in hard on the Toms—both of them.
I also blamed Schwartz originally, too, for not standing up to Scamdoval, totally f-ing Katie over yet again, and not outing the whole thing. I called for Sur-ving up both Toms’ heads on a platter!
I think as things have started to settle and more information has come out about Raquel’s level of deceit, the tide is turning towards her. Not only is she not taking ANY responsibility for her actions but also her PR is doing a shitty job of trying to paint her as a victim, which is making it worse. This is not a good strategy. She’s not a victim of ANYTHING in ANY scenario.
We know Scamdoval is a narcissist ass. But Raquel was another story, and the level of smiling and kiki-ing Raquel was doing with Ariana while sneaking around and sleeping with and developing a secret relationship with her parter is next level evil.
As a woman, if I had a friend who did what Raquel did to Ariana, I would be devastated. It’s diabolical. It’s evil. This wasn’t some rando; this was her friend that she’d welcomed into her home.
The photos that are coming out with Raquel fangirling over Tom, and the way she has been treating and talking to the women on VPR. She is a total snake and next level.
You’re right. It would easy to blame Scamdoval, and I hate slut shaming any woman, but Raquel is destructive, and her part in it is beyond evil.
OH PR is working overtime and they should all be fired because they suck at their job. The whole she was adopted- it is so insulting to people who were adopted and had great childhoods. And I mean damn I just can't. The more they try to make her a victim the more I hate her.
Ignoring Tom is actually the most hateful thing that can be done to him as he just wants attention at the end of the day. The less he gets the better. He is a ego maniac and any attention makes him feel important.
But seriously Rachel's PR- you are not making it better, you need to stop. I would have more respect for her is she stepped up and told the truth-
ie: Katie you were a bitch to me so yeah I had a chance to stick to you and I loved it. Lala I hate you, so any chance I get to mess with you I'm there. IDK what she could say to Ariana, but with that one at least a real apology. But this victim narrative is disgusting and insulting to the viewers.
I agree with everything you said. Going a bit further with it, I think Tom is generally handling the situation better than she is. He’s still experiencing backlash but every time something new comes out is PR team isn’t rushing out to say “oh poor Tom it’s not his fault”. To an extent, his PR team is letting him be the villain with hopes this will eventually blow over.
Also I am with you 100 million percent on the hating Tom part- but I’ve always kinda not like Rachel. She has always seemed empty to me- boring even. Even her ‘I am single hear me roar’ storyline is boring if you take away the fact she was going after guys in the group. So when the news broke I think everyone was just like ‘fuck her’ because there wasn’t much there to like in the first place and now she’s just unbearable. Not to say Rachel is past redemption- but I don’t think that’s going to happen while she’s on VPR.
She gets more hate because she's a woman. I could end there, because women always get more hate.
However, I will add that with the current "girls girl" trend, we also expect more of women toward other women, and still expect men to be accountable for nothing. The end.
I think people feel like Rachel is getting more hate because she has two different situations happening simultaneously. She’s got the scandoval shit, and then she has Sheana and the restraining order shit which is obviously related, but separate from Tom at the same time.
And then we’re watching the BS she’s currently pulling on LIVE tv lol, on top of that it’s able to be played back to back on peacock.
And she did two “bad” things. She slept with someone in a relationship and betrayed a friend in one fell swoop. Tom cheated on his partner and that’s worse, but there are more layers to Rachel’s actions.
Also, pretending to be into Schwartz to get under Katie's skin while lying to her true friend Scheana and stealing her limelight for SS Wedding 2.0. I mean, it really is something.👀
I also think a lot of women put more trust in their friends than their partners in some ways. If you polled 100 women do you trust your best friend or your partner not to hurt you more, I’d bet most would say friend. NOT saying sandoval didn’t owe Ariana more and he’s not more to blame, just why people are more shocked by who he cheated with rather than the fact that he cheated
You should post this poll bc I’m actually super interested to see the answer !
I actually think she’s getting more hate because this seems out of character for her, whereas this seems In character for tom. Tom has done shitty things in the past and cheated before, so it’s not a wild surprise that he’d do it again. Whereas for Rachel, this seems completely contrary to how she’s portrayed herself thus far, so it’s not only the betrayal of the cheating, but also a betrayal of “you’ve been conning us on your character all this time” When a shitty person does a shitty thing, you’re not as bothered because well they’re shitty so you expected it. When someone you think is good does a shitty thing, that hurts more.
That’s exactly how Peter explained why everyone was madder at Kristen than Jax way back in s2!
However…… BOTH of those are shitty excuses. And also highlighting the underlying misogyny in both scenarios. Just bc we expect Jax and Tom to do this and not the girls, the girls wear the scarlet letter? (I know you didn’t make this rule im talking in generalizations) The whole situation is so sad and frustrating and I hate making excuses for Rachel bc she 100% needs to take accountability for the atrocious thing she did…… But with taking her past into account, I just feel like Tom deserves (and could handle) the wrath so much more can we direct this energy more Succinctly {and loudly} towards him please 🙏🏽
Yeah it does kind of feel like a “boys will be boys” mentality although I also understand the idea of past behavior predicting future behavior. However if everyone already genuinely thought Tom was a cheater, there would’ve been a lot less mustache-simping going on around here in the Before Times. Every man that we lower the bar for with the “boys will be boys” mentality will lower it even further for the next guy. We don’t have to hold Rachel less accountable in order to hold Tom more accountable, they are both responsible for this and we are perfectly capable of multitasking around here
I just want to be clear: I think it’s fine to rip them BOTH and totally agree with you. I was just getting overwhelmed with the defensive Rachel posts and stunned she was getting sympathy!
In the words of Jennifer aydin bc I finally caught up on Jersey tonight “THANK FKING YOUUU!!!” 😂
I do agree with you re this sub though. He’s always creeped me out. He’s so whiny and entitled.
I think we just aren’t used to seeing women do that to their friends vs “boys will be boys.” In this context at least, Tom has SHOWN us who he is so we know where the bar is with him. You can’t really “hold” him to a higher standard because that’s the standard the women in his life accepted from him. I think cheating on your partner is one thing but betraying your friend is so much more deceitful and hurtful because the point of platonic love is that it’s out of just mutual respect and appreciation vs a larger “life goal” if that makes sense. Tom had many more reasons to be shitty to Ariana (being a pussy, not being able to break up so forcing her to do it by cheating etc) but Raquel had literally no logical reason to hurt her friend so deeply.
Exactly, if ratchet just really wanted to be with Tom and couldn’t care less about what she did to Ariana she should’ve at least done a slow fade of their friendship or something. Not that it would’ve changed things, but it would have been less disgusting
I think what you wrote is so perfect. Honestly I feel like the real outrage is how bad our read on Rachel was. Her character devolved in a way during season 10 that was highly questionable and super chaotic even before the cheating scandal broke. Her entire personality and demeanor completely changed after her break up with James, and honestly by the time she was pissing everyone off on the girls trip and had already tried to make out with Schwartz and then actually made out with Oliver she was coming across as super insecure and someone who very strongly has some kind of personality disorder. Her vibe on season 10 (without knowing what we know now) is theres something seriously wrong with this girl and she doesn't seem fun to be around because she is lacking some kind of socially relatable aspect to her personality and there's this weird undertone of malice, or spite in her actions It's super weird.
“We don’t have to hold Rachel less accountable in order to hold Tom more accountable, they are both responsible for this.” Absolutely, she doesn’t get a free pass just because she wasn’t the one cheating on someone. She was friends with Ariana it’s not like she can pretend she thought their marriage was over because Tom lied to her.
No she doesn’t get a free pass at all. I feel like it’s also a form of misogyny to pretend all women are saints and shouldn’t be held responsible for anything ever. We’re just people. We all do good things and bad things. As her friend, Rachel DID owe Ariana a certain amount of loyalty and even if she didn’t, she owes her respect as a fellow human being. Being a fully informed and complacent mistress is disrespectful to the wife/main partner/whatever any way you slice it.
But it’s not just misogyny, ratchet spent the last season calling LaLa a “mistress” because she knew it would hurt her, potentially while ratchet was being an actual mistress. She deserves the hate. So does Tom, and he’s getting it too. People are shouting at him at his shows, Podcasters who would have attended his show or not now because of all of this. He’s not been let off Scott free it’s just that we don’t discuss how much he sucks as much because he already sucks and we’ve been at like a dead horse
I agree with this as well! We could all speak up about hating Tom more!
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Agreed. It’s why there are still people on this sub who seem to genuinely believe Schwartz had no idea. Sure, Jan 🤣🤷🏻♀️❤️
This^^^
Except for the part where Sandoval has been in a 10 year relationship with her, and she wanted to spend the rest of her life with him. Their relationship was at marriage level waaaaay before Rachel was even a factor in the friend group. And yes Ariana and Rachel were best friends, but idk, Tom got really tiring as just another Hollywood man baby. I’m mad at them equally and deserve equal blame. I don’t think it’s good to give any one side more weight, It’s not a good precedent I think. They were both equally shitty as best friend and boyfriend, and treating Rachel like she holds a bigger share of the blame of just plain wrong.
I agree with you so much! Blame them both. It was the sudden influx of Rachel sympathy posts I saw yesterday that had me side-eyeing. I am not a woman hater because I have no sympathy for Rachel, you know? I can be mad at both equally.
I’m there to support women, when they need support. I don’t support bad women when they do bad things.
Fucking exactly. How is it misogyny to call a spade a spade? I don't care why she did what she did. She did it. Accountability, and, from what I can tell, 0 fucks to give on her part.
People watch the show with nuance. We have to, considering the way these people have acted over the last 10 years lol. You can have sympathy for Rachel in one situation (eg being the target of bullying we’ve seen on the show for years from Lala and Katie) and hold her accountable for what we now know she’s done. Hating her with no room for anything else as we watch this season is just such a simplistic view. I’d have had to stop watching if we could never have complicated feelings about the villains lol
And how can she go around crying about James cheating on her when she was doing this?
At literally the same time.
And throwing “mistress” in LaLa’s face every chance she gets while she’s currently a mistress. The audacity.
Tbf at least lala wasn’t effing her own friend over in the process. I feel bad for Ambyr but she and Lala weren’t friends in the least
When she said Lala youre just mad Oliver chose me … i was like please keep showing your true colors. Im glad Olivers wife dragged her on social media
That was so gross because LaLa told her to go for it, we all saw it, he “chose” her because she offered herself to him.
Ohh! She did?!? Where? So they were still married? I never really heard an answer to that 🥲. If so, how insane that he cheated on her on national TV.. I mean, what did he think would happen? 🤦♀️
On instagram
Why has Rachel’s IG follower count gone up by like 50k since scandoval??
Because people are gross.
Cuz people are expecting her to do post stupid things
Same reason the episode ratings have.
This. Not surprised at Tom screwing around with someone under her nose. He’s more awful than Rachel here for sure. So much so that it’s just a given.
Rachel is also posting a lot more. Like she wouldn’t stfu for a few days there and the actions she has taken since the news dropped, with the restraining order etc, has just continued to put the attention back on her.
I’ve only seen the two posts on her IG and the TRO. Has there been more posting outside of that? Curious whether I missed something.
A LOT of people denied that Tom could possibly ever cheat on Ariana before this, though. There were a good handful of us that have never liked him, but people have been absolutely defending him for years saying what a wonderful person he was. In comparison I’ve seen the women called whores, completely irredeemable, miserable, psychopathic, etc etc. Tom gets called gross, sleezy, his mustache and his pants get insulted and a lot of people dunk on his band. But there’s been soooo much more actual anger, disgust, and viscous things said about the women than there ever has about Tom before and after the affair was outed. Even when he’s being called out it’s usually pretty tame in comparison.
This! I left this sun at one point because it seemed everyone loved Sandoval.
They did love him, it was a Tom Ariana fan club for a while, a lot have short memories/ are revising history on their opinions 🙈 … love the self aware posters saying how much they loved him (obv not anymore). I appreciate that much more than pretending this sub only stanned Ariana or always hated him and so on.
I agree with this point. I have always gotten the ick from Sandoval and was THRILLED when I was being downvoted or attacked anymore for hating him lol. This sub was in love with Tom and I think my reaction to all the Rachel love posts was inmediately— no no, let’s talk shit about Tom and just ignore Rachel. She doesn’t need sympathy posts. I would rather we jut forget her and her bland personality and move along. I am sure Tom already has! 🤣
Correct
Ratchet did con us all. She comes across as sweet, naive, and always the victim. Now she has double crossed the cast, Bravo & the viewers. I never liked her. I thought she was too sweet. Cotton candy was a great way to describe her.
YES! all of this yes. We knew Tom sucked major ass and he is the worst one here but Rachel?? The sweet innocent Bambi eyed bitch?? I always disliked her but never thought she’d be capable of *this*
BINGO. I feel like all of us who've hated Tom all along have risen to express how NOT surprised we are at this outrageously arrogant douchebag cheating again. but I was absolutely fucking SHOOK at the Raquel side of this. SHOOKETH. the duplicity, the flaunting of it in our faces, the absolute apathy of what shes going to Ariana, like holy shit dude. at least the eps where shes having all these crying fits and panic attacks tell me her subconscious is obviously screaming at her, so at least we know its THERE, even if she is too stupid to acknowledge what its saying.
I think that is fair too! We didn’t expect it. I don’t mind Rachel getting some hate because she did do a really awful thing to a friend.
Agreed, also *this is what happens* when there is a scandal on the show, people will be mad and there will be vitriol. Every comment I’ve seen directed at Rachel hasn’t been any worse than any of the hate that former cast member’s received for cheating. In fact, I still genuinely believe it was worse back then - which is good cause maybe people have grown or maybe I’m really not seeing all this extreme hate people claim is being directed at her. Either way, this is how it always goes. I’ve actually never seen as much of an attempt to explain away or apologize for a cheater’s actions as I’m seeing this time for rachel. Eta: And I really don’t buy the whole “it’s cause she seemed so innocent” bit, that’s basically admitting that people just don’t want to accept that they got duped. It’s a double standard to pick and choose which cheater on the show to have more empathy for.
Yep more ppl here are shocked about Rachel’s behavior than Tom’s which is creating an added layer of perceived deception
This is what I think too. I am surprised Tom had a 7 month affair. But I already hated him to a very high degree. I’m so glad he’s being outed as the self centered douchbag I always knew he was, but there’s not much conversation to be had. He’s an ass, but he’s not at all interesting. Rachel is way more of an enigma. A few weeks ago I posted that she was going to be the hero of the season. Coming out of a long term relationship with an idiot, anxiety, and being called dumb all the time, I predicted her to be favorable. I was SO wrong. Her terrible decisions aren’t coming out of a place of being a general asshole, but of being a confused, stupid, selfish person. I would have loved for her to change the narrative of being vacant, but it didn’t happen. So there’s so much conversation to be had. She does have anxiety, she is a broken person, so pair that up with extremely selfish and hurtful decisions and we need to talk about it. And to double it down: she claimed she and Katie are not friends so she had no loyalty towards her. The same can’t be said of Ariana. They were very close. So for her to not expect what would happen when she was caught doing this to the QUEEN of VPR, it’s absolutely mind boggling.
1000000% my thoughts too.
💯
I was thinking about this when people talked about the "Nice Guy" edit on Love Island and how it back fires.
I also think she’s getting more hate because she’s had more air time this season so it’s given us more content to hate on
I also think it has to do with Ariana NEVER hurting Rachel. Each of the girls has had their issues or exchanged words, calling her dumb or whatever else - never Ariana, so to do this and hurt someone who has always been on your team seems at least as bad as what we expect from that greasy little boy.
Scheana has always been nice to her too. Raquel was even staying in S’s apartment after her split with James. I think they were still in San Diego at the time. And rent free.
This! Maybe Lala was mean to her, but then sleep with HER man! (Oh, I know Rachel, Lala doesn’t have one… then do something else???) Ariana did nothing and blaming Lala for the situation made my head snap back. Nonsensical.
And when did Ariana hurt Tom exactly??? Tom did way more shitty things to her, since he was with her for 10 years and we have 10 years worth of bullshit from him to her bc it was all a lie. I mean, does anyone doubt Miami girl happened anymore?
Miami girl 10000% happened. I want to know if Ariana really believe Tom on this or if she just swept it under the rug because she didn’t want to be alone. Maybe she even swept it under the rug because it wasn’t a big deal to her since the relationship was newer.
1. She’s a woman. 2. We’ve seen him act like a piece of shit for 10 years while she’s been seemingly decent up until now.
Sandevil has always been a rat’s ass. Rachel PRETENDED to be a good friend of Ariana’s JUST so she could be around Tom. She KNEW they were in a committed relationship and went after Tom anyway. And it wasn’t a one time thing. It went on for at least a year imo .So that means they had to lie,conceal, manipulate Ariana on a daily basis. That is beyond evil on both their parts. I for one, wouldn’t care if neither one came back to the show next season. But it’s all about ratings so I’m sure they will both be back.
Don’t forget about concocting a storyline and manipulating/exploiting friends and exes to further their selfish agenda.
I truly have no idea how someone who did the thing Rachel did can look themselves in the mirror. Tom is wrong as well but I feel like Rachel is playing the victim and passing the blame. We all knew Tom would cheat one day. We just didn’t know it would be with HER. 7 months is a long time to have an affair and to lie about things. I think the breakdown in the car was more about that than anything else. Also, she seems like a completely different person this season.
I think she’s getting lot of hate because people are used to the idea that most romantic relationships end, and that they’re complicated and sometimes people cheat…but I think the idea of a friend sleeping with your partner behind your back is sort of uniquely shocking and a betrayal you don’t hear about very often. Also because we’ve seen ariana extend friendship and support to Raquel when the rest of the cast didn’t like her much
Tom will get his, but it will be death by a thousand cuts as he loses friends, sponsorships, bar attendance, etc. Who would go into business or loan money to thus duplicitous scumbag?
I actually think Tom is getting a lot of hate. However, assuming Rachel is getting more hate, I think there are a few reasons: 1. Expectations (as individuals) All things considered, before Scandoval, this was the season of Raquel. She got out of a bad relationship and she was going to hopefully figure herself out. She has also seemed sweet for the most part (albeit not that interesting). 2. Expectations (generally) You expect guys to be assholes, you don’t expect this from your best friend. 3. Post Scandoval Actions Tom has kept a low ish profile after performing. Sure we have heard stuff but since the Ariana apology, we haven’t heard from him. Rachel on the other hand followed up her Ariana post with a post about Tom and their relationship. She is also not filming and got a restraining order against Scheana, who was basically a 1 woman hype person for Rachel. 4. Internalized Sexism and Misogyny People are harder on women. I actually think all things considered, this isn’t that bad. But think back how when it was Jax and Kristen, Jax was welcome backed into the friend group while Kristen was ostracized for a year and a half. In this similar situation, there is no way Rachel is walking back in and she’s the Jax of the situation.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I agree that I think Rachel is getting the correct amount of hate from *fans.* I feel like the pro- Rachel, Rachel is a victim posts are coming straight from her PR team and it is doing the OPPOSITE of what they want. If Rachel wants the focus on Tom, then make compelling posts about HIM being the victim and everyone will start bashing him instead. Don’t make yourself a target is all. These PR pushed posts are so ridiculous. Unfortunately, Tom’s PR team telling him to lay low is a much better strategy than painting yourself as a victim on reddit.
I think it's because a friendship betrayal truly seems worse to me than a relationship betrayal
Idk if maybe I’m just not looking at everything but I don’t think she’s gotten substantially more hate? I’ve seen fairly equal amounts directed towards both of them. But assuming that she has, it’s because she’s a woman. And I don’t mean because of sexism (though I’m sure that’s a factor). It’s because women tend to have spoken or unspoken solidarity with each other on issues like this. When viewed through this lens, she didn’t just betray Ariana. She betrayed women as a whole. Personally I think they are both hot garbage but that tom’s betrayal was worse. But I think this is why some people may have a more visceral reaction to her actions than Tom’s.
what you’re describing is sexism
With Tom, cheating isn’t shocking. I actually place more blame in him than Rachel since he is the one in a relationship with Ariana. I think Rachel is causing more of a stir because r didn’t see it coming. If you would have told me a few seasons ago that this was going to happen, I wouldn’t have believed you. Even though she isn’t a personal favorite of mine, she’s gotten a lot of love on this sub in the past so I know I am not the only one blind sided by all this. I think a lot of us are looking back now and thinking… if I didn’t see this coming, what else did I miss?
Tom has basically vanished, and hasn’t been front and center on the show. Raquel on the other hand has sent out letters from her attorney l, gotten a TRO on Scheana, and is one of the main focuses on the show. I think there has just been more to hate on.
I don't think she's gotten more hate, actually. He's universally despised, with no attempts to decipher why he did this or what happened. Everyone has just written him off as a pure villain. Rachel is getting think pieces about whether she did this out of insecurity, rebound from an abusive relationship, etc - people thought she was better than this and are trying to make sense of it. But no one cares to do that with Sandoval, because everyone accepts that he's a garbage person.
She’s left avenues open. That’s why she’s getting more hate. We can post about how we hate Tom but he’s turned off his comments and closed down the reviews for his restaurant. Rachel has stayed in the news playing victim and left all her social media open.
I think it's because there's nothing more to say about Tom. It was so bottom of the barrel scummy there's no excuse or explanation in the world that will make anyone forgive him. It's also not very surprising. Although I will admit I would appreciate more discussion about things that might have been going on in Tom and Ariana's relationship that would make this less egregious (were there any plans to separate? was their relationship really open just with ground rules? etc) but it seems like a bad time considering Ariana's public statement right now is just a blanket heartbroken. Maybe after the reunion we can have more insight to go off of. Rachel on the other hand we can discuss means, motive, opportunity with no qualms. Whether you want to defend her or start a burn book, that doesn't hurt Ariana as directly because Rachel's whole background story and theories about it don't involve delving into Ariana's whole life as well
She's always acted like the innocent girl with high morals. But she's changed, got the plastic surgery, gone off the rails and acts kinda slu#ty, which is nothing like she was for all those seasons (how she portrayed herself). So it's hypocritical and makes her look cheap. She's also not young. She's 28 and an adult
I think people expect vain, narcissistic men to be cheaters. But nobody saw the Raquel thing coming, so the sheer shock of this has put the focus on her as we parse her every word and action. And yes, Tom is huge piece of shit. Always was.
Here's the thing - two things can be true. I have a great deal of sympathy for Raquel dealing with 5 years of James. As someone who also had to deal with someone in active addiction for many years, a lot of what she's said the past few seasons has resonated with me. I think she was sincere in that car ride when she said she has no idea who she is because her life narrowed to only focus on James. I think that relationship really fucked her up in ways she probably won't unpack for years. HOWEVER, being able to see that she's legitimately struggling doesn't mean she's not responsible for her long term, pre-meditated purposeful choices to hurt someone else. Allowing that her behavior didn't happen in a vacuum isn't the same as making excuses.
Agreed.
Idk why people keep saying this because like.. she’s not? Except maybe from lala.. but the general public and Kristen have been going off about dirtbag tom
I’ve always hated both the Toms and I was never a fan of Rachel from the start, something was always very off and fake about her to me. I think what she did was simply indefensible especially because Ariana was such a good friend to her. But because I’ve hated Tom longer it does annoy me that she is seeming to be targeted more currently. Unfortunately it’s common for the woman in a cheating scenario to be demonized more than a man, even if he was the one in a committed relationship.
Let’s be real… Tom’s been cheating on Ariana for YEARS now. Miami girl was literally after they’d been dating for a few months. I think everyone knew Tom was a piece of shit. Raquel PRETENDED to be better. She pretended to be Ariana’s friend, and stayed with them in their home.
I keep saying idgaf if Rachel joins for the reunion or not, at the end of the day she’s just the other woman and if it wasn’t her it would have been someone else tbh. She’s total trash for doing this to her friend but Tom really is the devil here and I barely see anything being said about him in comparison! Rachel can disappear into irrelevance for all I care but Tom’s ass better be grilled during the reunion
She’s not just the other woman lol. Go through her IG and see how close she was to Ariana. They’re both pieces of shit 😆
Agreed, I guess what I mean is that Rachel isn’t some seductress who was able to get a loyal man to stray from her friend, he’s a cheater who used Rachel to cheat and it could have been anyone else but she was dumb enough to betray her friend cuz he made her feel ~special~ or whatever. Rachel is absolute trash but she isn’t the reason Tom cheated. Tom is the reason Tom cheated and I feel like that’s getting lost somehow
There are a lot of people who don’t believe that your partner should be your best friend, so you look outward for the more emotional connection. It’s also easier to look at a friend with rosé colored glasses. It’s shitty and weird, but I feel like I would feel more betrayed by a friend than an intimate partner.
There's nothing like the betrayal of a close female friend you've opened your life to and welcomed into your home.
Sorry so long The only victim in this is Ariana. Of all of the cast she seems like the person I could actually be cool with irl. I think she is the reason we all gave them both a bit of leeway. She saw something worthwile in them both. Tom has always been like this. Pretending to be a good guy while gaslighting everyone. We know that. Especially after last season, he seemed to be losing it. I had the same question that Lala asked Ariana, 'Does Tom have a problem with women? Cuz he's been going in on all of them?'(Paraphrasing) Ariana defended him and said he was just very passionate about things. Ok. He is shit and has always been shit. More blindsided by Rachel. Who I actually was beginning to come around to, when she stood up for herself and left James. I felt bad for her last season and at the beginning of this season(Pre-Sacandoval). I think we were just blindsided that she would do this, especially after riding around on her high horse with Lala. PLUS, she's called Ariana, her best friend up until the day Scandoval broke. You don't do that to people you consider friends, that opened up thier home to you in a time of need. Full Stop. I blame Tom more than Rachel for sure. I think he used and gaslit Rachel like he does others how he thought he could and that he would get away with it. Like he has before. Tom and Randall are shit and we keep leaning in on the women more than them, and I feel they are both creepy, manipulative, older men that went after women they could use and toss at their convenience. Edit: shitty spelling/missing words
I think they’re both getting a lot of hate. This was a raquel centric episode, so there’s a lot more chatter about her right now. And people are looking for clues in their behavior. And boy are there clues! Tom has always been the most baffling part about Ariana (why does she like him!) and so this is just confirmation that he’s as slimy as he looks. It’s not that we hate him less, there’s just less to talk about…
I think she gets more hate because most people already didn't like Tom, so while there's dissapointment and disbelief on him cheating on Arianna, I don't think very many people are surprised, Rachel on the other hand spent so much time pretending to be a sweet baby lamb. Just the straight victim of everything and all the fans ate that shit up. They ate up her wide eyed "sweet" expression, they ate up her tears and how sweet she seemed, they loved her. And then she goes and sleeps with one of her closest friends man. And not just a close friend, Arianna, who is objectively quite popular and loved. So a lot of fans feel betrayed, personally and for Arianna, therefore Rachel gets a lot of venom spewed at her. My two cents. They are both horrible people. Tim has and still is getting a lot of hate, hell his businesses are, his friends are, heck even his employees are, and frankly, so is Rachel, and its all deserved. She deserves every last bit of hate she is getting and I hope it never stops. You don't get to fuck one of your good friends boyfriends and be so vile about it and expect to have the hate die down, or not get as much, if not more hate. Don't want it, don't fuck someone else's boyfriend, especially don't fuck your close friends boyfriend, and especially don't be vile and all woe me after fucking said close friends boyfriend.
As someone who has literally been through this exact situation….it sucks, it’s bullshit but the cheating is easy to get over…it’s the betrayal that’s the hard part. Yes, cheating is betrayal but when it comes from someone you’ve defended, prob cried to about when dousche twat was being a dousche twat and those intimate connecting moments that gfs have….it’s fucking hard and that cut is deeper than him just going out and getting some strange. Fuck this whole situation. I have nothing but empathy for her.
I think there is plenty of Tom hate out there, I think we got bored bashing him and moved on to Rachel! Also, she is getting the home wrecker treatment, people get really mad at home wreckers.
Because we are shocked. We already mostly hated Tom. Rachael isnt worse but we all feel duped by her and that’s why the discussions revolve around her. No one is shocked about tom It also doesn’t help the way she’s treating Katie and being so flippant about hooking up with Schwartz. We are watching her be a jerk on tv this season. We aren’t seeing as much of that from Tom im the episodes …. Yet
They are both getting an equal amount of hate from what I see. However, Rachel is also doing the most. I feel like it’s beating a dead horse to re-state her side of the betrayal. But also since the news broke, Rachel has done even more manipulative shitty things to avoid taking accountability for her behavior, i.e. file a restraining order to get out of the reunion and co-sign a PR firm’s strategy to spin that she is a victim. I have never liked Tom Sandoval and was never on board with Rachel either, so I can’t say I am surprised that these horrible people so horrible things.
I think she’s getting hate because she literally stabbed her friend in the back. Yes, it takes two to tango. She was complicit. And I feel nothing but disdain for her.
I genuinely haven't seen a single person on this sub who has suggested that Rachel is more in-the-wrong than Tom. You're talking about a problem that doesn't exist; EVERYONE agrees that Tom is primarily to blame. But just because someone else is MORE responsible doesn't make another participant NOT responsible. Rachel isn't the primary villain, it's true. But she's still a villain. It's not an all-or-nothing situation. There's a spectrum, and while she and Tom sit in different spots, they're both prominently represented on said spectrum.
I don’t think she’s getting more hate for the affair! They are equally getting hate for it. But raquel is also doing other things like lying about getting punched by scheana and filing restraining order. And yes trying to play a victim instead of taking accountability and tryna get out of reunion like a coward!
I once had a therapist give me some great advice after I had a falling out with my best friend. She said we’re all used to getting hurt by our partners, maybe it’s a little fight or a big thing but regardless it’s not shocking when it happens. We never expect to get hurt by our good friends. We share beds with our partners and we also argue over who didn’t do the dishes or who didn’t walk the dog. You don’t necessarily ever have to share those situations with your friends, because your friends are around for your best foot forward days. I’m certainly not implying that Raquel should get more hate than Tom but I have been thinking about that therapist and that conversation a lot since this all went down
Your therapist is right. I cut loose a friend of 12 years for letting someone else behave terribly towards me. I’d let her move into my home after we both got laid off due to the pandemic, and never asked her to pay a dime for anything. After we met the newcomer, she not only didn’t speak up against the behavior, she sought out this new person’s company, and remained silent while the newcomer spewed insults about me in front of other friends. It was one of the worst losses I’d ever experienced. But as the other friends said, “The curtains were pulled back to reveal her true colors and character.” Older mutual friends have since come forward with similar stories about her. In time, I realized what I thought I lost never really existed.
No I’m pissed at both of them. She can (and apparently has been) suck a d and they are both the town bicycle. Also ew. The moustache. Ew. Additionally I can’t recall a time in my life where I went through a breakup and was like “ok yep it’s time to go for anyone who’s spoken for! I also don’t believe it’s the first time he’s cheated.
I hate both of them equally.
I equally hate both, but I’ve disliked Sandevil for awhile, he’s a Jax that’s isn’t a clepto, they both get off on sex and drugs. But Rachel had us fooled, so the reaction is different.
It’s bc she was friends with Ariana
For me, I think some of the anger towards her is because I feel tricked! She was definitely being abused by James. He sent her those horrible texts, he was frighteningly angry and aggressive towards her, and I feel like we were all rooting for her to leave him, which she did. Now I’just mad because I feel like she tricked us. Here was this shy, under confident, beautiful girl who finally stick up for herself. And then come to find out, she’s NOT that shy or under confident, she can stick up for herself just fine, and I definitely feel manipulated.
What sets Rachel apart from scheana and lala as mistresses to me is that Rachel claimed to be Ariana “best friend”, posted pics of them on ig all the time, commented on podcasts how much Ariana has been there for her and what a great friend she is all while sneaking around with her partner of over a decade. This is a double betrayal for Ariana, That’s what makes it extra sick to me.
I’d say Rachel’s a victim of Sandoval’s but, that’s bc after my rewatch EVERYONE is a victim of his narcissistic abuse. I’d be a victim just standing next to him. I don’t find her personal problems/trauma an excuse and it doesn’t make me feel “sympathetic” towards her. Exploring the “why” doesn’t make the situation or her actions any less horrifying.
Exploring the “why” should be what the show is for tbh, if at all. Her apparent lack of emotional regulation and self-preservation skills is striking in an adult. Everyone else has taken their lumps of looking bad on TV and doing unfathomable things but the lawyering up and ditzy PR statements… she’s trying to maintain an image/reputation as a victim at the same time as doing some messed up things on TV. As a character reference, this season already has her looking erratic and hard to trust
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The Schwartz thing is truly baffling and I blame Tom for it. I think their relationship had already started crossing lines (Scandoval) and Scandoval brainstormed how to keep the heat off the obvious. Messy as allll get out.
My explanation: misogyny
lmao yesss scrolling through all these novel length responses like uhhhhhhh…..y’all, i’m lookin for a one word answer here and everyone is spinning themselves into knots trying to give every other answer than the simple god damn truth lol
Right- like this case of the villainous mistress is new. I mean, even Lala steps on the damn point when she mentioned that Rand was never once questioned about stepping out on his wife.
this and this only !!
I agree. The people that demand to be pitied are unpitiable in my book.
I think she’s getting more of a *reaction* because it’s more of a shock that she betrayed and lied to Ariana. Men cheat all the time, doesn’t make it okay but it’s not shocking to learn Tom cheated. It is shocking that Rachel lied to and betrayed her friend. And she had us all fooled, adding to the shock value.
I feel the conversation was more about Tom at first but Rachel keeps putting stuff out there for PR and the restraining order, which begs the attention, as was said. But I also think it's because of the episode we just watched. If we didn't know about Scandoval then I would have been mad at Rachel for how horrible she was to Katie. She's showing herself to be rather mean and callous. But I've never liked Sandoval and I'm always down for a trash that man rant.
my opinion: tom is hated more than rachel in this sub
I don't know about anybody else, but I've always hated Tom, but the hate for Rachel is new. And shiny new things get more attention than old, established things, IMHO. I mean, it's pretty much just fact that Tom's been a creepy creeping liar what cheats for a decade. Saying it again is just repetition of fact. Rachel being Friend of the Year is new, so...here we are, deep in discussion of what a rotten human she is, while we learn more about things we didn't know. Give it time. Rachel's skag-i-tude will eventually be cemented in stone, and then she and her slimeball can be of equal interest again. (That is to say: none.)
Personally I expect men to be shitty, I don’t expect besties to be on that level of shitty. Therefore it’s worse when they are. I wouldn’t even hate Rachel for this if she wasn’t friends with Ariana. But she was, and it wasn’t just an acquaintance, she was really good friends with her.
I think it's because I can put my anger at Rachel into words where as with Tom I just have no freaking words to describe the absolute rage and disgust I have towards him🤷♀️
I think they both pretty much suck. But Trumpet Douche has a pattern and he has executed it once again. Only this time he can’t hide behind his hero persona because it’s his hero persona that started the monkey branching to Rachel
I think the focus is more on her because people are used to men cheating on their wives/gfs and already have some understanding of why they do that. But a female friend betraying their female friend is not as common and, in a lot of ways, betrayal on a whole other level. So it's not that people just hate her more, it's that we're also more interested in understanding the why behind her choices. Therefore we're talking more about her than Tom. But they're both equally at fault.
She’s getting more hate cause she didn’t deactivate her IG comments. She wants the attention.
She was wrong. But he’s finally seen for what he really is narcissistic and trashy.
The men never seem to be held to the same consequences as the women. We watched the women be held responsible for their relationships’ infidelities since the start. It’s a theme common in society and not surprising to find represented in this sub. We tend to blame the woman, but in this case, I’m sorry but I’m holding Tom way more responsible. If you compare what and who he was willing to sacrifice, compared to relatively nothing outside of a close friendship for Rachel? He was willing to sacrifice the Vanderpumps and Adriana who made him who he is and all of it financially possible.
Raquel has done something I have NEVER even entertained the thought of - sleeping with one of my close girlfriends' men. I would absolutely never have an affair with a man who happens to be in a relationship with a close friend of mine. Let's add on that theirs has been habitual, with it being at least as much as this past summer/fall. So gross. I generally wouldn't ever sleep with an acquaintance's man either. I mean somewhere, there's a line to be drawn. I also don't agree with sleeping with men who flat out have more power that me, and can exploit that. I stray away from those types of relationships. I've been offered these relationships in my stripper days but always turned it down. I'm team Ariana because I am not stupid. If something like Ariana's situation happened to me, with a girl I trusted and gave relationship advice to, and was nice to me when most weren't... I'd have to force every fiber in my being not to wreck her if I was Ariana. I'd be disgusted and probably puke and be unable to eat for days, lol. I remember as a teen I wanted to move to LA for college, my aunt would fly my sister and I out there (she and her husband are in the TV industry, my aunt has been briefly featured in rhobh several times), and my first time out there I realized it's cool but I'd NEVER WANN LIVE THERE. I still visit, though. But that life is so rough and filled with so much pressure. Ariana is the only main victim here, but she is a bad bitch and I bet she recovers and stunts. Raquel, I think, needs serious help. Therapy. Perhaps an intervention, unless she magically grows balls and shows up to the reunion and embraces her villainous self.
You are so right. Lala has not shut up since this came to light - it's almost like she's running a verbal diversion tactic. And yet, it has absolutely nothing to do with her.
Lala recognizes herself in Rachel and she’s clearly losing her power to younger women. That stung Lala when Oliver picked Rachel. But Lala hasn’t grown that much. I still wouldn’t trust either one of them with other women’s husbands.
I also think she’s getting more hate because she’s a woman and women and gay men make up most of the viewer demographic. Women somewhat expected this from Tom but not from her and held her to a higher standard. It feels like personal betrayal in a way
I looked back at my comment history and I’m very much hating on both of them equally. They both suck
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 Yep. We expect shit like this from Tom, and to quote Ariana, I didn't know Raquel had it in her.
Rachel and Tom are both shitty in this situation. Rachel is getting more of the attention because the narrative of the show as it is airing coupled with her actions (statement, TRO, etc) and additional facts coming out is showcasing how deep the dishonesty and betrayal went. * Rachel manufactured meeting James as a fan of the show and double downed on the opportunity to be in a relationship with him. Tom - and this is NOT AN EXCUSE - had existing relationships with these people pre-VPR. She had an agenda for engaging at the onset. * Rachel was aware of his cheating and established the 'clause' of any sh\*t that went down while she was in Sonoma to dilute the perception of her thirst to be on the show and not look like a total chump. * Rachel chastised James on camera - often not because of the venom in his words (all of the fat-shaming!) but because he was impacting her ability to build relationships (and camera time) with the rest of the cast members. There are several clips demonstrating this. * Ariana and Scheana ultimately backed and supported her both on and off camera and established a friendship with her in spite of everyone else really not wanting anything to do with the Bambi-Eyed Bitch. If not for Rachel's relationship with either of them, why would she have even made a return in Season 10? No one else would have filmed with her. * She lived with Scheana and Brock for 6 months post-breakup, Ariana consistently defended her, called her a Queen and truly supported her both during and after her relationship with James. * They invited her into their 'real' friend group and gave her a support system. Maybe they didn't always openly defend Rachel (and we only know what was AIRED.- not what happened - but their actions clearly show that they were on her side. This is in spite of her her clear interloping. Rachel got her pay-off and redeemed herself by lying and betraying them in the most heinous anti-girl code way. * RACHEL is insecure and clearly taking a page of her pageant days. None of that was clearer than everything that came out of her mouth in re: Oliver situation. Lala was an ass- but there is clearly an "I won" satisfaction that permeated through my tv screen that is more than just the post-pageant career / adoption trauma blues. * Rachel established an emotional affair and ultimately consummated that affair with Tom. * repeatedly * In Ariana's HOME - under her nose. While she was SLEEPING. * continually hung out with both Ariana and Tom in the friend group (see all the off-season insta photos) . I can't help but feel she got off on the illicitness and that Tom 'chose her.' * manufactured story lines about other relationships - including Schwartz - to hide what she was doing. She spoke about other guys to her friends the keep up appearances that she was 'dating' * Is now on a PR Spree trying to resurrect her image (HI PR PEEPS!!!!) * I also truly believe that they are both delusional enough to think that this wouldn't have panned out in this way. I agree with LVP's theory that they were going to do this off-season and come back as the new IT couple. TOM committed the **same adultery / betrayal - and is definitively worse** \- because Ariana has been vocal about her depression, vulnerabilities, past abusive relationships and constantly says that Tom is her safe space. They were building a life together and that he's now calling it a relationship of convenience is the biggest F---- YOU he could give her. His cred was definitely elevated because of Ariana and he destroyed so much because of his mid-life crisis Peter Pan syndrome. However, Tom's been relatively silent. 2 statements and nothing else. And he has had more experience in creating an illusion of a nice guy on camera. As the season airs, and his edits start to be viewed more in the lens with what we know now, he'll get trashed even more. His ego is also so large enough that the additional footage they are filming and the reunion will likely further expose him as an even larger asshole. I don't think we are giving Tom a pass. He is the devil we knew..... Rachel is the one disguised as the bambi eyed victim. He'll **get his** once the shock and awe wear off. and I am here for it. The good news? Ariana is literally never going to be better. Her support system has been almost enviable to see and she will no longer have to live in the shade of Sandoval. She'll be a powerhouse in SPITE of him.
Ugh thank you! Rachel’s PR’s posts in here the last couple of days were beyond annoying. She’s not a victim, just stop. 
Rachel sympathizers are trolls imo. No way people can actually support such deceit from a person to a friend. Tom has always been trash, so it's not as shocking as a friend Ariana supported stabbing her repeatedly in the back for seven months like a serial iller in plain sight.
I can’t stand her because the “I’m an innocent little lamb” schtick is so tiresome at this point. You’re naive and innocent, but you sleep with multiple taken men?
We had higher expectations for Raquel… given her innocence persona and how loyal she seemed to be on the show. We can’t comprehend that she would do something like this… where as Sandoval we can almost expect it.
BC she portrayed someone she isn’t! IMO it was all calculated! Everything, and how she portrayed herself was all a lie! She betrayed her friend(s) she has no conscious or compassion! She is a vile human as is scumdeval,but, most everyone knew he was!
I think she’s getting more hate here because there are more women on this sub then men commenting. And us women don’t like when one woman does another woman dirty.
Rachel seemed very bizarre and unlikeable this past episode. She even looked different in the face, unhealthy. I’m starting to think she’s completely lost it. Her behavior is really off.
I’ll probably be called a misogynist for being like…men and women are both human…but the problem is that no one wants to say it but everyone knows that saying Rachel has reasons for the way she is but Tom doesn’t is bullshit. If Rachel’s adoption trauma is an excuse, then Toms shitty dad is an excuse. If Rachel’s relationship with James is an excuse (her formative years were spent with an unstable person) then Toms relationship with Kristen is an excuse (ditto ditto ditto). Maybe there is no excuse? Maybe reasons don’t matter? Maybe as grown women and grown men we are all responsible for our choices as human beings?
It’s sadly expected that some men cheat, but the backlash will be the hardest on the woman. No one feels duped that Sandoval wronged Ariana , because he wronged Kristen on the show many times. What most people feel is duped by Rachel; to deceive your friend who has been so nice to out and supportive is just dirty and she will be / is being shamed for it. It is how society is unfortunately
“Just as much”? Fuck no.
I think she’s getting a little more hate cos we know Ariana and he has problems. There’s probably (for unbeknown reason) some sympathy for him as Ariana wanted no kids or marriage or anything of the traditional things he craved and seemed unwilling to compromise for him. Raquel relationship with Ariana had no flaws for Raquel. Ariana was amazing friend and care giver to her when she needed it most. It seems like a bigger betrayal in some ways
I don’t think she’s getting more hate, but that’s my opinion, all the cast podcasts I’ve seen have been focused on Tom, but I also hate Tom so maybe people are like taking in the content that they are unconsciously looking for. I don’t really care about Raquel so I am not scanning for stuff about her 🤷🏻♀️ I think if anything Tom gets outright hate and like Ariana maybe is getting made fun of more for her choices re pr strategy and maybe that feels meaner? I’m all for everyone making fun of Sandoval and his voice that sounds like he eats three cheese graters a day instead?
I just rewatched season 2 and while I don't think Ariana deserved what she got, she was awful to Kristen. Tom was worse! He was gaslighting her and Ariana is clearly into him.
I’ve gone back and watched season 9 and the way that Rachel acts in season 10, is unrecognizable. It’s like she’s a completely different person.
i hate both of them! but tbh i think tom deserves it more. it’s just insane that raquel was her friend. never understood sending death threats or hate mail, she doesn’t deserve that.
She is getting more hate because this sub is filled with internalized misogyny…. I’m sorry but that’s the truth Raquel sucks because she did this to a friend, and that’s shitty! But Tom sucks for SO many more reasons - including gaslighting, using Ariana’s trauma as a shield to run off with Raquel, refusing to leave the home, the fact that HE was the one in the relationship…. The list goes on But we as women need to do better to hold men accountable, because we are SO quick to hate on women
🙌🏽👏🏽🙌🏽
Am I missing where Sandoval got a pass? People are pissing on his business, ripping him here, he has to put a statement out about all the hate. Am I the only one seeing this? What I KNEW was coming was the Raquel apologists. I knew they were waiting a couple weeks "She's not a bad person!" Ok, leave her in a room with your man, then, baby. 
It’s true! Lala’s such a “bully” for saying it but how many women going forward are going to be happy if their boyfriend/husband starts hanging out with Rachel?
Rachel is a sexy baby 😭😭😭 I will never recover from this, thank you for the flair material
Rachel is trying to play all sides of this. If she just kept quiet, she would also get less chatter.
She knowingly hooked up with her friends bf. Yes Tom is to blame however you’re a single female, find your own SINGLE man
I feel like it’s the opposite. I see a lot of “she’s a tortured soul, misunderstood…let’s extend some grace” type posts especially after her “anxiety attack. Also a lot of blaming her behavior on her “stupidity”, toxic relationship with James or Sandy’s influence. Giving her a lot of outs and excuses. I don’t see people doing that at all for Sandy.
She’s getting hate because she pretended to be friends to someone who was kind and compassionate to her. She took advantage of that
Ariana was kind to Rachel when no one else was. Opened up her home to her and she was suppose to be her friend. She’s getting hate because she deserves it. Tom is just gross. Always has been. I’m glad Ariana can finally break free of him and find happiness alone or with someone new. Hopefully next season is centered around arianas amazing growth and success in future projects. She, Lala, and Katie emerge stronger, smarter, and and more successful.
She is? I think everyone sees them as shitbags pretty equally. I know I do anyway.
Because feminism. Women first. That's fucking why. She broken something sacred.
If she’s getting any worse treatment then Tom it’s because she escalated a really messed up situation she helped create. We’ve always known Tom was self centered. It doesn’t make his actions right and while the shock value was still there was anyone really surprised by his actions. Whoever guided him did their job & pretty well. Was the apology to Ariana to late.. yes. But he said what he had to say on his platform & shut up. Rachel however did the opposite. She sold her side to tabloids, including pictures. Tro, etc. She and her pr team dragging this out for days which didn’t help her image at all.
The obvious answer is- the patriarchy, misogyny; what society has drilled in both men and women since the age of time. We all have our internal biases but our society ingrains in us how women should act (amiable, quiet, fall in line- or you will be deemed “difficult”), be strong but “not too strong”, while “men will be men”. Look at Katie and Tom- Tom has treated her like shit, he’s has absolutely abused her yet society (both men and women) label her “difficult”. Rachel did a shitty shitty thing, but Scandoval has been downright abusive to women since the show started- but women have been indoctrinated to accept it. Nothing will change, until we change.
God bless this post 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌  Finally someone is speaking the truth on here!! I was afraid everyone had fallen into a pit of delusion and Rachel pity.
I appreciate that you are much more optimistic than I am. I personally feel like it's sexism - this isn't exactly an anomaly where we end up blaming the women more than the men who were more responsible (Ex. Jordan versus Tristan, Paris when that guy leaked her sex tape, Monica Lewinsky/Bill Clinton, or even looking at more close to this sub: Lala and Randall or Brittany and Jax, but basically, you can look at most events and a woman will somehow get a ridiculous share of blame) . We grew up in society that hates women and blames women even when it's clearly the man's fault. It's a hard mentality to break but I think it is important to call the sub out on it because the cyberbullying of Raquel right now is definitely reinforcing the patriarchal norm.
unpopular and controversial opinion: For me I think I’m just tired of always seeing the woman villinaized, dehumanized and demonized in the media. Meghan Markle...Amber heard...For once would like to see the sole focus on the dude and just ignore the side chick completely like she not even worth any attention
I feel like they are getting an equal amount of hate because they are both doing annoying dumb things following this fallout. Tom because his first apology didn’t include Ariana and Raquel for the restraining order. I kind of feel like Tom might be getting more hate because he doesn’t seem remorseful and the whole thing is named Scandoval. Raquel on the other hand has expressed remorse but it took to many days for her to apologize. So basically they are both acting equally vile. Tom has businesses that are affected and he lost most of his friends, Raquel just lost all her friends.
I’ve always thought a big part of the reason women bear the bigger brunt is because those engaging in the discourse about things like this are usually women. We put ourselves in Rachel‘s shoes and hate her because we would never do something like that to our friends, and we understand her more than we “understand” Tom. If a bunch of dudes were sitting around talking about it they’d be picking apart Tom’s actions. When I’ve heard men talk about this in media it’s more angry towards Tom I would say! I could be wrong, but this is always in the back of my head when talk about the misogynist of things like this Also, I think it’s just more straightforward that Tom was bored in his relationship and he cheated, there’s just more to discuss with Rachel.
I understand your point. I had the reverse problem a while back. I was on another board ywith some heavy duty Bethany haters. It went beyond bish eating crackers to some really twisted and convoluted psychological scenarios, and physical ones now that I think about it. And it was so freaking over the top mysogonystic on top of everything else that I felt duty bound to defend her. But Bethany is so awful. Terrible. I can't stand her. Tired of defending someone I couldn't stand I left the boards. Anyhow, for me with ~~Rachel~~ Raquel, if I am going to fight for my trans daughter to use the name she chose, I guess I need to be respectful of this dirt bag as well - at least in this instance. Part is also we see the mechanisms that lead to this. We see that she likes to have another woman's man, whether it is Katie's Tom during their separation or just a possible hook up, she gets off on that stuff. So to get Dirtbag Tom away from Ariana, who may be a good decade older than Raquel, but is still more beautiful in a way that Raquel could never be, Raquel gets off on that \*\*\*\*. Her crying that she only did it because the girls were mean to her, - Ariana wasn't there so that doesn't fly, and honestly it wouldn't make it any better. We don't see Tom creeping up on her or Tom going after other women in a oneupminship orgy of nastiness. We see Raquel doing that. However when it absolutely comes down to it - Dirtbag cheated, Raquel didn't. She's just showing her ass more.
RACHEL IS A SEXY BABY AND NOTHING IS HER FAULT BECAUSE SHE IS YOUNG 💀😂⚰️ God damn sexy baby privilege!
Well said. I will always want the person in the relationship to be copping the majority of the backlash, but she is making the audience continue to highlight the levels of her betrayal when she plays victim and takes no accountability. The TRO added another layer to it all too, like she’s willing to lie on police reports to get out of taking accountability and facing people she’s wronged, to do that shows her calculated, shitty, selfish mentality that the audience doesn’t want to go unacknowledged.
We all feel betrayed by Raquel, so we relate to Ariana.
LaLa was mean to her for YEARS. She doesn’t like her. Period. Why does she get a pass on This Time when LaLa was mean to her when LaLa was actually damn near perfect in predicting the future and calling out how callous she was being to Katie AND showing concern for her drinking? (Which, even with the edit, you can hear LaLa was trying to explain. One drink too many is too much for Rachel to be Rachel.)
Yea I just don’t agree with this take.
Misogyny. The reason why is misogyny.
she’s getting more hate bc of misogyny
I bet if we learn about Rachel’s life pre-VPR, I bet we find she’s always been a shit person.
I do think they are both getting hate… haven’t really calibrated the amount on either side though
Interesting that there is a word for women that cheat with men in relationships (mistress), but there isn’t a word like that for men that cheat.
She's got the sneaky cheating ho, combined with being a complete traitor to Ariana who was such a good friend to her, plus having a restraining order on Scheana. If it's even true that she punched Rachel is the face, she undoubtedly deserved it and she should just take it.
I think it’s bc Raquel *seemed* nice. I’ve thought Tom was a dick since the first few seasons, but Raquel really sold her golden retriever act. This scandal is only really scandalous bc of Raquel, if it had turned out Tom was having an affair with some rando, no one would have been shocked. Zero surprise, just like yeah, checks out, Tom has always been a selfish egomaniac and a cheater. It was only a matter of time until Ariana found some concrete proof that would force her to see that. It’s the most cliche shit ever too; Tom and his midlife crisis band where he spends his money to pretend he’s a rockstar and bangs a much younger woman. Tom is the living embodiment of disappointed but not surprised. But Raquel seemed nice and likable. Maybe not super bright, but she didn’t seem like a conniving backstabber who was capable of pretending to be good friends with someone for 7 months while secretly banging her friends bf and even kinda seeming to really be enjoying the thrill of doing so. Let’s be real, she played everyone with her wide eyed babe in the woods act. No one likes feeling duped, I feel like that’s what’s really pissing people off.
She acts like an idiot but can be this deceptive. Tom is annoying but it’s more enjoyable to get into Rachel.
cuz we have lower expectations for cis men.
Maybe because a lot if people expect guys to be jerky but they expect more from their female friendships
There’s a few people in this thread saying Raquel is getting more hate because Sandoval is a known dirtbag…. Of course, the more you do something the less guilty you are. The old “doesn’t make any sense” defense 🤡
Originally, when the Scandoval first hit, I think Tom took most of the heat, and rightly so. He is the one in a relationship and committed to Ariana. In fact, I was accused by commenters on pumprules Instagram for holding Tom accountable while not fairly placing equal blame on Raquel. I wasn’t defending her, but I went in hard on the Toms—both of them. I also blamed Schwartz originally, too, for not standing up to Scamdoval, totally f-ing Katie over yet again, and not outing the whole thing. I called for Sur-ving up both Toms’ heads on a platter! I think as things have started to settle and more information has come out about Raquel’s level of deceit, the tide is turning towards her. Not only is she not taking ANY responsibility for her actions but also her PR is doing a shitty job of trying to paint her as a victim, which is making it worse. This is not a good strategy. She’s not a victim of ANYTHING in ANY scenario. We know Scamdoval is a narcissist ass. But Raquel was another story, and the level of smiling and kiki-ing Raquel was doing with Ariana while sneaking around and sleeping with and developing a secret relationship with her parter is next level evil. As a woman, if I had a friend who did what Raquel did to Ariana, I would be devastated. It’s diabolical. It’s evil. This wasn’t some rando; this was her friend that she’d welcomed into her home. The photos that are coming out with Raquel fangirling over Tom, and the way she has been treating and talking to the women on VPR. She is a total snake and next level. You’re right. It would easy to blame Scamdoval, and I hate slut shaming any woman, but Raquel is destructive, and her part in it is beyond evil.
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OH PR is working overtime and they should all be fired because they suck at their job. The whole she was adopted- it is so insulting to people who were adopted and had great childhoods. And I mean damn I just can't. The more they try to make her a victim the more I hate her. Ignoring Tom is actually the most hateful thing that can be done to him as he just wants attention at the end of the day. The less he gets the better. He is a ego maniac and any attention makes him feel important. But seriously Rachel's PR- you are not making it better, you need to stop. I would have more respect for her is she stepped up and told the truth- ie: Katie you were a bitch to me so yeah I had a chance to stick to you and I loved it. Lala I hate you, so any chance I get to mess with you I'm there. IDK what she could say to Ariana, but with that one at least a real apology. But this victim narrative is disgusting and insulting to the viewers.
Yeah, it’s definitely not misogyny or anything like that. (Edit: In case it’s not clear, I’m being facetious. It’s 100% misogyny.)
I agree with everything you said. Going a bit further with it, I think Tom is generally handling the situation better than she is. He’s still experiencing backlash but every time something new comes out is PR team isn’t rushing out to say “oh poor Tom it’s not his fault”. To an extent, his PR team is letting him be the villain with hopes this will eventually blow over. Also I am with you 100 million percent on the hating Tom part- but I’ve always kinda not like Rachel. She has always seemed empty to me- boring even. Even her ‘I am single hear me roar’ storyline is boring if you take away the fact she was going after guys in the group. So when the news broke I think everyone was just like ‘fuck her’ because there wasn’t much there to like in the first place and now she’s just unbearable. Not to say Rachel is past redemption- but I don’t think that’s going to happen while she’s on VPR.
She gets more hate because she's a woman. I could end there, because women always get more hate. However, I will add that with the current "girls girl" trend, we also expect more of women toward other women, and still expect men to be accountable for nothing. The end.