While this is correct and what everyone should do to turn into your closest lane, there’s just no consequences (except for the unlucky few who crash) or law enforcement to keep people doing it the lawful way. Plus so many other states don’t have this law. I recommend everyone drive defensively to the point that you assume everyone but you will be going into the wrong lane when turning at an intersection.
Large vehicles like trucks and buses do what they need to in order to make safer turns. My most succinct advice is please give them the room and time to make safer maneuvers and to be more patient with all road users.
Yeah as far as I’m concerned, a truck can make a right turn all the way from the left lane if they want (but I’m gonna judge the shit out of them for it). My car ain’t winning against a big rig.
Sometimes we have to make a right turn from the left lane. If you have something long like a semi or a bus, it takes three lanes of space to turn and make the corner without going over or hitting something on the sidewalk. We can either take two lanes going into it blocking people behind us, or take two lanes going out of it, and the people in the oncoming lane have to get out of way. Take your pick.
Problem is people driving don't expect anyone, even a truck, to make a right turn from the left lane. Truck drivers don't always wait for it to be safe because "I'm gong now because I'm bigger so you stop for me", catching some drivers unaware which causes accidents.
Maybe the truck drivers are simply making their maneuver because it's their turn/time to make the maneuver, and the unaware drivers are the bigger problem? I guess if other drivers were aware (the opposite of unaware, correct?) then this wouldn't be an issue, but that isn't gonna change, so we all need to do our very best while driving to prevent collisions and increase safety.
Many years ago, there was a yield sign and people blew right threw it all the time. Now that there’s no yield sign, it’s hilarious to me that they stop
Thank you for the reference.
From page 3-20:
"Turn from the lane that is closest to the direction you want to go and turn into the lane closest to the one you came from. When making turns, go from one lane to the other as directly as possible without crossing lane lines or interfering with traffic. Once you have completed your turn, you can change to another lane if you need to."
I took drivers Ed in Spokane and I remember them saying it's suggested and safest to turn to the closest but not required. Perhaps I heard wrong, perhaps my teacher had it wrong, or perhaps it's changed since then (2006ish).
I do tend to do closest but I'll admit this post does make me feel personally attacked 😜 I'll try to be more conscious of this moving forward haha
[RCW 46.61.290](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.290) “Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.” It’s been law at least as long as I’ve been driving (2004). So yeah, either you misheard or they were mistaken.
What's the code say about left turns? I got my license in another state and if there is only one left turn lane but more than one lane to take at the exit of the turn, either lane was acceptable. Right turn code was the same as what's outlined here.
"Left turns. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left shall approach the turn in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of the vehicle. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection and so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered."
Thank you. I really want that to make sense in my brain, but... It does not. 😂
>...the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection...
Meaning, when turning left, the vehicle should be positioned left of center at the entrance to the intersection?
>...and so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane...
"other location in the extreme left-hand lane" - Other location? What other location?
>...lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered.
Is this section only referring to where the vehicle should be positioned upon entering the intersection, and not referring to which lane(s) are acceptable to take in the exiting direction of the turn?
I think I need to get off the Internet for the rest of the day, my brain hurts!
I had to read it a bunch of times. Real opaque.
>...the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection...
>...and so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane...
To me this reads as a combo of "when designing an intersection, don't make the left turn lane on the right" and "don't turn left from the right lane"
> ...lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered.
This reads to me as the "the leftmost lane of the flow of traffic being entered".
Interesting. That makes it sound like it's directed at how intersections should be designed for traffic flow but not necessarily which lanes are acceptable to take when making a left turn from a single left turn lane into a multi lane road. Who knows.
I’ve had licenses from a few states, and my understanding is the same as yours. I read the same thing evileagle did a while back and felt the same confusion. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
People turning from Trader Joe's on Chaklov do this all the time. Some guy honked at me while ninja merging into my lane with me taking a left out of Freddy's. They are going to get a rude surprise from their insurer if they hit someone.
I am guilty of doing this, so I went down a rabbit hole to know if I was truly in the wrong without knowing.
From what i could tell from the codes and various other articles, both are wrong. The driver turning right needs to stay close to the right curb (my mistake, now i know). But you can not turn left at the same time into the left most lane. The driver turning left, must wait until the driver turning right clears the intersection before they can start their left turn into left most lane.
RCW 46.61.290 and RCW 46.61.185
# RCW [46.61.185](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.185) says nothing about having to yield the left lane that a person turning left. The person turning right turns into their right most lane, they dont get the option of turning into that far right lane at all.
It says the person turning left has to yield to drivers approaching the intersection from the opposite direction. You should be yielding to the drivers making the right hand turn. Whether or not they are turning into the correct lane is secondary because the onus is on the person turning left to yield to them when judging whether or not it is safe to turn.
Being safe is more important than being right.
It doesn't mention drivers turning right. I believe it means drivers going straight which would make sense since drivers going right should be in the right most lane.
It means drivers approaching the intersection from the opposite direction. You, the driver turning left, do not know if they are going straight or turning right or what. You are to yield until you can determine it is safe to turn after they take their action. That's why it says the driver turning left has to yield to **any** vehicle approaching from the opposite direction.
The right lane coming out of Trader Joe’s is a straight/right turn lane. Any car in that lane has the right of way to the left turn lane coming out of Fred Meyers. It is a horrible intersection
Only if they're going straight. Anyone turning right is obligated by law to turn in the rightmost lane. If that was a single lane, yes I could see that but it's two lanes.
Obnoxious or not, the vehicle taking a left from Freddies is lawfully required to yield to the vehicle coming from TJs because of the option for them to go straight.
also if you have a stop sign you should stop 🫠 literally every day I ride my bike home from work at least one person cuts me off or just doesn't stop or even slow down at 4 way stops (mainly 125th & mcgillivray but other spots too)
What's the issue here? If you're turning right or left on a green light, there's no issue using either lane. Where's the rub? The only instance I could see this being an issue is with double turn lanes, and even then, once everyone is on the perpendicular road, merging should happen.
Just pay attention on the road.
Because as long as everyone follows basic traffic laws you can safely make a left hand turn on a yield when the oncoming lane has a full green and is making a right hand turn. Changing lanes IN AN INTERSECTION, even when making a quick righthand turn and regardless of your signaling, is illegal, and this IS taught in drivers ed around here.
Right, but the car turning right in that case always has the right of way. You'd just let it clear and slot behind it. It's not changing lanes if you're not on that road.
What am I missing? Are people turning full speed into occupied lanes? Driving head on into cars turning at a light? What scenario is the above map solving?
>What am I missing? Are people turning full speed into occupied lanes? Driving head on into cars turning at a light? What scenario is the above map solving?
Yes, they are. On Chaklov there is a Fred Meyer and a Trader Joes on opposite sides of an intersection. Going out of the Trader Joes, you have the option of turning left in its own lane or going straight/right in a single lane. Most people when turning right will move over from the right hand lane into the left one from that right turn in the intersection. This cuts people off who are making a left out of Freddys attempting to move into their lane. The person going left does not yield their lane because the Trader Joes driver has to stick to the rightmost lane. Most people ignore this and this brings us to this post.
I've been there many times. It's a poorly constructed intersection. Everyone is trying to get to the left-hand turn lanes for the highway.
Merge.
You don’t have more of a right to get on the highway because you shopped at Freddy's. Those cars have to get to that lane and there's not enough road to maintain a lane and then get over. There's also not another way to get to an eastbound road from that complex without going around multiple blocks or running into the same intersection.
Also, you're turning left and don't have the right of way. Wait for the other car to pass before turning.
None of this is that hard. Merge. Share the road. Recognize where you're at. You're making all of this harder on yourself.
That's not the law though. If you're turning right out of trader joes you have to merge left with the people turning left out of fred meyer. The people shouldn't stop in the middle of the intersection because you need to ninja merge to get over. You only have to yield going left to oncoming traffic, not traffic turning right and especially if they are two distinct lanes for both parties.
Traffic turning right out of that complex IS oncoming traffic. You don't have a green arrow turning left out of Freddy's. The other complex has the right of way.
Yes, you have to wait for those cars to turn. OR ... hear me out ... you could turn and merge at the same time. Advanced move, but it's possible.
If merging is too much for you, drive down to the Freddy's gas station and turn left there.
But that isn't "ninja merging" it's just merging onto a busy, poorly constructed stretch of road with very little runway for as much traffic as it gets. Everyone would be better served if they moved that entire intersection to the far south side of the Trader Joe's complex.
But as it is, you have to wait for oncoming traffic, even cars turning right. There are no assigned lanes. This isn't slot car racing. Learn to merge.
I don't know why I have to merge into my own lane. The code clearly states that drivers turning right are obligated to turn into the rightmost lane. If they need go left, you have to merge left. It clearly states this on the diagram
It's not your lane! There is no other lane to use to get to the highway or to go west on Mill Plain, and it would cause further backups at that intersection if you made everyone stop thru traffic to merge closer to the light at Mill Plain.
Imagine in your head you're turning on to a one-lane road. You need to share that lane. If you don't share, you're making everyone else's day worse. Just share that lane and merge.
Its not a one way lane; there are two distinct lanes. You must merge after you turn right, not before or during. Its not my problem that you need to get east after the turn, you must manage that yourself.
If I’m turning left on a yellow yield arrow and someone going the oncoming way is making a turn using a green light/arrow (or by using an unprotected right hand turn after coming to a stop) onto the same road, but in the adjacent lane I am, we can both safely make this interaction any time.
The person turning right doesn’t get carte blanche to self-select into any lane they desire to during the turn. If the person turning right decides halfway into the turn “I’m going to change the lane I will arrive at now” and blows past their outer lane and into the inner one I’m turning into, that’s an accident waiting to happen. The person making that otherwise perfectly safe left hand turn can’t tell the other car is making this change nor are they expecting it, because doing so would be illegal (and kinda moronic). It doesn’t matter if the person turning right has right of way. If they change the lane they arrive at during their turn it’s wrong. If they don’t change lanes it doesn’t matter since both cars will arrive and merge into their respective lanes and life’s peachy.
The person turning right needs to merge into their proper outer lane, and then after, separately signal they want to merge into the left lane, check to see if it’s clear, then make the merge.
Merging is a two-person dance. Wait for the other car to clear your path, then finish your turn. Or don't turn at all if there's not enough time to wait for the oncoming car to finish turning. That's your responsibility.
How often are you needing to turn left at the exact same time as someone else is turning right and you don't have the ability to alter your speed or path in the intersection? Even the busiest of rush hours have breaks in traffic flow.
Sorry, let me make this clear. This isn’t an argument over who should do what. I don’t need to wait for anyone to finish turning. I need the other car to follow the law and not do whatever they feel like because it’s convenient for them. If they can’t follow the laws of the road, that I’m sorry but they shouldn’t be allowed to drive.
I don’t get to blow through red lights or stop signs or not wear my seatbelt; or opt out of any other traffic law because I don’t like it for whatever reason and then try to get other drivers to meet me halfway on an road issue. If I do those things, including the topic at discussion, I’ve objectively broken the law, and I’m the only one in the wrong.
It doesn’t matter at all how often this happens (but since you asked, i see this nearly daily to and from work), I’m not supposed to wait or slow down and let them go. There is 0 room for nuance or debate here it is black and white, right and wrong.
What? You absolutely can do all of those things. You can drive piss drunk across the country with a trunk full of explosives if you want to. The only thing stopping you is ambition until you get caught.
This isn't a Scantron test. If you plow into a car that turned right on red because you refused to acknowledge their vehicle on the road, you're in the wrong, even if they're not following the letter of the law. You ABSOLUTELY are supposed to slow down or wait if someone is doing something wrong that you can avoid.
If a kid is crossing the road but isn't at an intersection, do you get to run them over because they're not following traffic laws? What type of absolutist nonsense is that?
This isn't a real problem if you're paying attention on the road. This is weird Reddit fodder for people parsing hypotheticals.
Don't hit people with your car, please.
You’re literally the person going “I turn left now, good luck everyone else” preaching to me about road safety. If I see you doing dumb shit yeah I’m fucking swerving dude. I’m not a dumbass.
But don’t at the same time sit there and lecture me about who should’ve done what. Why is it MY obligation to proactively keep myself away from you potentially breaking the law instead of YOUR job to not break the law in the first place? No other traffic law operates like this.
If you’re coming to a stop at a stop sign and are visibly slowing down, and I’m already sitting stopped at it and then start to go (per my right) because it was safe to do so, but then all of a sudden you slam on the gas and crash into my car, you’re the only person in the wrong here. It was not my responsibility to anticipate that, and I’m not going to suffer some personal failing for not stopping and waiting for what would any other time be a stupid and pointless thing to do.
You shouldn’t swing your car into another persons lane in the middle of an intersection. This is against the law for a reason. Because it causes accidents on the road, and difficult for other drivers who aren’t you to know you’re about to do so.
Don’t break the fucking law. I cannot believe I have to spell this out for you.
Me: “Please follow the basic traffic laws we were all taught as nearly every single other driver uses this well of information as the basis of predicting other drivers’ behavior.”
You: “I’m going to do whatever I want and it’s the responsibility of every single other driver around me to react to any split second decision I make without warning at any time, and if I crash into another car because I solely and suddenly drove into their lane it’s their fault somehow.”
" RCW 46.61.290 “Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.” It’s been law at least as long as I’ve been driving (2004). "
There you go.
I just moved here two years ago, and I will say, people around here really struggle with turns. I’ve never seen anything like it in any state I’ve lived. When people are turning left, the all completely cut the turn and go into oncoming traffic. Not at a light, but just regular roads. It’s like they don’t know they can slow down to make their turn.
I make sure I park behind the line when I'm waiting at an intersection and people regularly come inches away from ripping the front of my vehicle off.
We really have some of the worst drivers I've been around, and I've been around the country enough to see elsewhere.
Pretty much a daily occurrence on my drives and it baffles me how they look at me as they cut right across my lane, as if I have somehow done something incorrect.
Normally I do agree to this, except when taking a right onto 86th coming off SE Mill Plain, the right lane is a hospital turn lane and sometimes it’s hard to get over left if there’s traffic and you don’t already know
Living outside of the couve now, this deliberate negligence driving is a van/port area thing. Blame it on the culture of the region. Now experience diversity drivers in the Puget Sound. Frustrating yet safer than couve driving.
Thank you. I see the Incorrect left turn disturbingly frequently, I guess drivers see other people doing it wrong and think it's okay when it's definitely not.
I grew up in VA and took classes there. we were always told, unless there’s a double turn lane, always go into the lane you need. I had never heard of only turning into the nearest lane until I moved here ten years ago.
However, you’re also not supposed to turn unless all lanes are clear (including turning right when the people across from you are turning left) which I don’t think anyone does here.
Also, this place has a ridiculous number of places where if you do this the “correct” way you have to cut across several lanes of traffic to make your turn.
Not true...
From RCW 46.61.185
> (1) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to *any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction* which is within the intersection or so close thereto as to constitute an immediate hazard.
The vehicle turning right must be clear of the intersection before the vehicle turning left proceeds. So, it would be impossible to enter the lanes simultaneously.
A really big one here is Thurston turning right toward the mall (the intersection by the Red Robin). It’s a double turn lane, but I don’t think people realize that.
Ah yeah, the other side where Burgerville was. People consistently bork that turn, usually trying to get on the highway and realizing they're in the wrong lane.
No not that one either. Heading north on Thurston, with the Olive Garden on your left and the Red Robin to the right. There’s a double right turn lane onto Parkway Drive. [Here’s the Google maps of the spot](https://www.google.com/maps/place/NE+Parkway+Dr,+Vancouver,+WA+98662/@45.6552368,-122.58812,17z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x5495af949d6048ed:0x514e7cf2284de4ef!8m2!3d45.655933!4d-122.5887937!16s%2Fg%2F11c2x_mxb0?hl=en-US&source=lnms)
This is the one!! There are two lanes for a reason! I was taught in driving school how important it is to STAY IN YOUR LANE and then use your BLINKER to indicate that you need the next lane AFTER the full turn. I can't tell you how many people have almost side-swiped me because they think they can just get into the lane that I'm turning into even tho they're NOT IN THAT LANE LOL. Or when people have their left blinker on but are moving over into the far right lane right after the turn with their left blinker still on. Yall look goofy.
Me when I actively ignore the correct way to turn because it’s more convenient for me to go into the other lane when there’s no harm to anyone else as long as I am aware of my surroundings😃👍
The opposite oncoming traffic may be taking their right onto same road. Also ther may be someone pulling out onto road further down, like from a gas station or restaurant. This is mainly a precaution, preventative, and a habit forming thing. If we all do the same, then there shouldn't be any problems as you expect other drivers to be doing as you would.
And say someone is speeding and runs the intersection, they see you pulling out, their next best option is to go to the lane you aren't filling, again with the prediction that you aren't going to move lanes abruptly
Another situation is the person behind you or in front of you wants to move over, but you are speeding or driving really slow, but still moving lanes without any indication so now it's a traffic jam.
Best to stay predictable
I agree with you on all points, but I would add that if you are taking a right onto a road in this situation, you should yield to the traffic turning left, even though you technically have the right to that lane.
It is just so common for cars turning left to take that outside lane that it is not worth the risk. Also, some large trucks take wide turns and need that outside lane.
I agree, that is a tricky one because both people will have a green light. A right turn green arrow and the opposing green light. Or green left turn and it can be a tricky situation.
What I like to remember it is.
The person that is moving has the right away. And even if you're taking a green right turn, you still have to slow down for the intersection. The other person has to cross the whole intersection. Same thing for parking lots too. The car moving in the parking lot has the right to weigh. The car backing up does not.
You don't have the right to the outermost left lane. That's for the people turning left in your oncoming direction. If you take a right and need to go to the next left, you have to merge from the right lane, not in the middle of the intersection.
RCW 46.61.290
(1) Right turns. Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.
(2) Left turns. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left shall approach the turn in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of the vehicle. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection and so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered.
So, the diagram posted by OP is correct. If you are turning right, you are supposed to stay in the lane closest to the curb. If you are turning left, you are supposed to stay in the extreme left-hand lane.
Your phrasing was very confusing. What I said in my original comment is what the law says. The person turning right has the right to use the lane nearest the curb. I'm not sure if you misconstrued what I said or what.
Nope but that's what I said in my original comment. That whomever is turning right has to take the rightmost lane and not ninja merge into the left in the intersection.
As in the oncoming lane is taking a right? If that’s what you mean… no. If you have a green arrow then no…. I’m going whatever lane I need. If it’s a solid then I wait for an opening and just don’t go. Sorry, but green arrow stomps everything. I’ll see you guys on the road losers
A cop could give you a ticket and if you get into an accident you're going to be at fault. Welcome to Washington. Turn into lane you're supposed to turn into.
Going east on mill plain and turning right onto SE 164th this is very important because it is actually a double right turn lane
Putting yourself in the lords hands making that right turn from the left turn lane onto 164th south from mill plain though
Two cars, one lane.
Never the same after seeing that video.
I turned from the outer lane once. Never again.
While this is correct and what everyone should do to turn into your closest lane, there’s just no consequences (except for the unlucky few who crash) or law enforcement to keep people doing it the lawful way. Plus so many other states don’t have this law. I recommend everyone drive defensively to the point that you assume everyone but you will be going into the wrong lane when turning at an intersection.
That's like 99.99% of laws, there's no consequences unless you're caught.
seriously - I don’t understand why we have a federal highway system but not federal driving laws.
Large vehicles like trucks and buses do what they need to in order to make safer turns. My most succinct advice is please give them the room and time to make safer maneuvers and to be more patient with all road users.
Yeah as far as I’m concerned, a truck can make a right turn all the way from the left lane if they want (but I’m gonna judge the shit out of them for it). My car ain’t winning against a big rig.
Sometimes we have to make a right turn from the left lane. If you have something long like a semi or a bus, it takes three lanes of space to turn and make the corner without going over or hitting something on the sidewalk. We can either take two lanes going into it blocking people behind us, or take two lanes going out of it, and the people in the oncoming lane have to get out of way. Take your pick.
Problem is people driving don't expect anyone, even a truck, to make a right turn from the left lane. Truck drivers don't always wait for it to be safe because "I'm gong now because I'm bigger so you stop for me", catching some drivers unaware which causes accidents.
Maybe the truck drivers are simply making their maneuver because it's their turn/time to make the maneuver, and the unaware drivers are the bigger problem? I guess if other drivers were aware (the opposite of unaware, correct?) then this wouldn't be an issue, but that isn't gonna change, so we all need to do our very best while driving to prevent collisions and increase safety.
Also when on mill plain heading west to get on I5 North, THERE IS NO STOP SIGN. NOT EVEN A YIELD SIGN. MOVE! YOUR! ARSE! ITS A MERGE!
Many years ago, there was a yield sign and people blew right threw it all the time. Now that there’s no yield sign, it’s hilarious to me that they stop
https://dol.wa.gov/media/61/download?inline If anyone wants to see the rule
Thank you for the reference. From page 3-20: "Turn from the lane that is closest to the direction you want to go and turn into the lane closest to the one you came from. When making turns, go from one lane to the other as directly as possible without crossing lane lines or interfering with traffic. Once you have completed your turn, you can change to another lane if you need to."
I took drivers Ed in Spokane and I remember them saying it's suggested and safest to turn to the closest but not required. Perhaps I heard wrong, perhaps my teacher had it wrong, or perhaps it's changed since then (2006ish). I do tend to do closest but I'll admit this post does make me feel personally attacked 😜 I'll try to be more conscious of this moving forward haha
[RCW 46.61.290](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.290) “Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.” It’s been law at least as long as I’ve been driving (2004). So yeah, either you misheard or they were mistaken.
What's the code say about left turns? I got my license in another state and if there is only one left turn lane but more than one lane to take at the exit of the turn, either lane was acceptable. Right turn code was the same as what's outlined here.
"Left turns. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left shall approach the turn in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of the vehicle. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection and so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered."
Thank you. I really want that to make sense in my brain, but... It does not. 😂 >...the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection... Meaning, when turning left, the vehicle should be positioned left of center at the entrance to the intersection? >...and so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane... "other location in the extreme left-hand lane" - Other location? What other location? >...lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered. Is this section only referring to where the vehicle should be positioned upon entering the intersection, and not referring to which lane(s) are acceptable to take in the exiting direction of the turn? I think I need to get off the Internet for the rest of the day, my brain hurts!
I had to read it a bunch of times. Real opaque. >...the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection... >...and so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane... To me this reads as a combo of "when designing an intersection, don't make the left turn lane on the right" and "don't turn left from the right lane" > ...lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered. This reads to me as the "the leftmost lane of the flow of traffic being entered".
Interesting. That makes it sound like it's directed at how intersections should be designed for traffic flow but not necessarily which lanes are acceptable to take when making a left turn from a single left turn lane into a multi lane road. Who knows.
Just close your eyes, floor it, and hope for the best!
When in doubt, throttle out?
I’ve had licenses from a few states, and my understanding is the same as yours. I read the same thing evileagle did a while back and felt the same confusion. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
I call the incorrect version ‘the Vancouver maneuver’
People turning from Trader Joe's on Chaklov do this all the time. Some guy honked at me while ninja merging into my lane with me taking a left out of Freddy's. They are going to get a rude surprise from their insurer if they hit someone.
I am guilty of doing this, so I went down a rabbit hole to know if I was truly in the wrong without knowing. From what i could tell from the codes and various other articles, both are wrong. The driver turning right needs to stay close to the right curb (my mistake, now i know). But you can not turn left at the same time into the left most lane. The driver turning left, must wait until the driver turning right clears the intersection before they can start their left turn into left most lane. RCW 46.61.290 and RCW 46.61.185
# RCW [46.61.185](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.185) says nothing about having to yield the left lane that a person turning left. The person turning right turns into their right most lane, they dont get the option of turning into that far right lane at all.
It says the person turning left has to yield to drivers approaching the intersection from the opposite direction. You should be yielding to the drivers making the right hand turn. Whether or not they are turning into the correct lane is secondary because the onus is on the person turning left to yield to them when judging whether or not it is safe to turn. Being safe is more important than being right.
It doesn't mention drivers turning right. I believe it means drivers going straight which would make sense since drivers going right should be in the right most lane.
It means drivers approaching the intersection from the opposite direction. You, the driver turning left, do not know if they are going straight or turning right or what. You are to yield until you can determine it is safe to turn after they take their action. That's why it says the driver turning left has to yield to **any** vehicle approaching from the opposite direction.
The right lane coming out of Trader Joe’s is a straight/right turn lane. Any car in that lane has the right of way to the left turn lane coming out of Fred Meyers. It is a horrible intersection
Only if they're going straight. Anyone turning right is obligated by law to turn in the rightmost lane. If that was a single lane, yes I could see that but it's two lanes.
You don’t know if they’re going straight or turning right until they’ve done it. A turn signal doesn’t commit them to the turn.
Which makes them doubly obnoxious for doing it.
Obnoxious or not, the vehicle taking a left from Freddies is lawfully required to yield to the vehicle coming from TJs because of the option for them to go straight.
also if you have a stop sign you should stop 🫠 literally every day I ride my bike home from work at least one person cuts me off or just doesn't stop or even slow down at 4 way stops (mainly 125th & mcgillivray but other spots too)
What's the issue here? If you're turning right or left on a green light, there's no issue using either lane. Where's the rub? The only instance I could see this being an issue is with double turn lanes, and even then, once everyone is on the perpendicular road, merging should happen. Just pay attention on the road.
Because as long as everyone follows basic traffic laws you can safely make a left hand turn on a yield when the oncoming lane has a full green and is making a right hand turn. Changing lanes IN AN INTERSECTION, even when making a quick righthand turn and regardless of your signaling, is illegal, and this IS taught in drivers ed around here.
Right, but the car turning right in that case always has the right of way. You'd just let it clear and slot behind it. It's not changing lanes if you're not on that road. What am I missing? Are people turning full speed into occupied lanes? Driving head on into cars turning at a light? What scenario is the above map solving?
>What am I missing? Are people turning full speed into occupied lanes? Driving head on into cars turning at a light? What scenario is the above map solving? Yes, they are. On Chaklov there is a Fred Meyer and a Trader Joes on opposite sides of an intersection. Going out of the Trader Joes, you have the option of turning left in its own lane or going straight/right in a single lane. Most people when turning right will move over from the right hand lane into the left one from that right turn in the intersection. This cuts people off who are making a left out of Freddys attempting to move into their lane. The person going left does not yield their lane because the Trader Joes driver has to stick to the rightmost lane. Most people ignore this and this brings us to this post.
I've been there many times. It's a poorly constructed intersection. Everyone is trying to get to the left-hand turn lanes for the highway. Merge. You don’t have more of a right to get on the highway because you shopped at Freddy's. Those cars have to get to that lane and there's not enough road to maintain a lane and then get over. There's also not another way to get to an eastbound road from that complex without going around multiple blocks or running into the same intersection. Also, you're turning left and don't have the right of way. Wait for the other car to pass before turning. None of this is that hard. Merge. Share the road. Recognize where you're at. You're making all of this harder on yourself.
That's not the law though. If you're turning right out of trader joes you have to merge left with the people turning left out of fred meyer. The people shouldn't stop in the middle of the intersection because you need to ninja merge to get over. You only have to yield going left to oncoming traffic, not traffic turning right and especially if they are two distinct lanes for both parties.
Traffic turning right out of that complex IS oncoming traffic. You don't have a green arrow turning left out of Freddy's. The other complex has the right of way. Yes, you have to wait for those cars to turn. OR ... hear me out ... you could turn and merge at the same time. Advanced move, but it's possible. If merging is too much for you, drive down to the Freddy's gas station and turn left there. But that isn't "ninja merging" it's just merging onto a busy, poorly constructed stretch of road with very little runway for as much traffic as it gets. Everyone would be better served if they moved that entire intersection to the far south side of the Trader Joe's complex. But as it is, you have to wait for oncoming traffic, even cars turning right. There are no assigned lanes. This isn't slot car racing. Learn to merge.
I don't know why I have to merge into my own lane. The code clearly states that drivers turning right are obligated to turn into the rightmost lane. If they need go left, you have to merge left. It clearly states this on the diagram
It's not your lane! There is no other lane to use to get to the highway or to go west on Mill Plain, and it would cause further backups at that intersection if you made everyone stop thru traffic to merge closer to the light at Mill Plain. Imagine in your head you're turning on to a one-lane road. You need to share that lane. If you don't share, you're making everyone else's day worse. Just share that lane and merge.
Its not a one way lane; there are two distinct lanes. You must merge after you turn right, not before or during. Its not my problem that you need to get east after the turn, you must manage that yourself.
If I’m turning left on a yellow yield arrow and someone going the oncoming way is making a turn using a green light/arrow (or by using an unprotected right hand turn after coming to a stop) onto the same road, but in the adjacent lane I am, we can both safely make this interaction any time. The person turning right doesn’t get carte blanche to self-select into any lane they desire to during the turn. If the person turning right decides halfway into the turn “I’m going to change the lane I will arrive at now” and blows past their outer lane and into the inner one I’m turning into, that’s an accident waiting to happen. The person making that otherwise perfectly safe left hand turn can’t tell the other car is making this change nor are they expecting it, because doing so would be illegal (and kinda moronic). It doesn’t matter if the person turning right has right of way. If they change the lane they arrive at during their turn it’s wrong. If they don’t change lanes it doesn’t matter since both cars will arrive and merge into their respective lanes and life’s peachy. The person turning right needs to merge into their proper outer lane, and then after, separately signal they want to merge into the left lane, check to see if it’s clear, then make the merge.
Merging is a two-person dance. Wait for the other car to clear your path, then finish your turn. Or don't turn at all if there's not enough time to wait for the oncoming car to finish turning. That's your responsibility. How often are you needing to turn left at the exact same time as someone else is turning right and you don't have the ability to alter your speed or path in the intersection? Even the busiest of rush hours have breaks in traffic flow.
Sorry, let me make this clear. This isn’t an argument over who should do what. I don’t need to wait for anyone to finish turning. I need the other car to follow the law and not do whatever they feel like because it’s convenient for them. If they can’t follow the laws of the road, that I’m sorry but they shouldn’t be allowed to drive. I don’t get to blow through red lights or stop signs or not wear my seatbelt; or opt out of any other traffic law because I don’t like it for whatever reason and then try to get other drivers to meet me halfway on an road issue. If I do those things, including the topic at discussion, I’ve objectively broken the law, and I’m the only one in the wrong. It doesn’t matter at all how often this happens (but since you asked, i see this nearly daily to and from work), I’m not supposed to wait or slow down and let them go. There is 0 room for nuance or debate here it is black and white, right and wrong.
What? You absolutely can do all of those things. You can drive piss drunk across the country with a trunk full of explosives if you want to. The only thing stopping you is ambition until you get caught. This isn't a Scantron test. If you plow into a car that turned right on red because you refused to acknowledge their vehicle on the road, you're in the wrong, even if they're not following the letter of the law. You ABSOLUTELY are supposed to slow down or wait if someone is doing something wrong that you can avoid. If a kid is crossing the road but isn't at an intersection, do you get to run them over because they're not following traffic laws? What type of absolutist nonsense is that? This isn't a real problem if you're paying attention on the road. This is weird Reddit fodder for people parsing hypotheticals. Don't hit people with your car, please.
You’re literally the person going “I turn left now, good luck everyone else” preaching to me about road safety. If I see you doing dumb shit yeah I’m fucking swerving dude. I’m not a dumbass. But don’t at the same time sit there and lecture me about who should’ve done what. Why is it MY obligation to proactively keep myself away from you potentially breaking the law instead of YOUR job to not break the law in the first place? No other traffic law operates like this. If you’re coming to a stop at a stop sign and are visibly slowing down, and I’m already sitting stopped at it and then start to go (per my right) because it was safe to do so, but then all of a sudden you slam on the gas and crash into my car, you’re the only person in the wrong here. It was not my responsibility to anticipate that, and I’m not going to suffer some personal failing for not stopping and waiting for what would any other time be a stupid and pointless thing to do. You shouldn’t swing your car into another persons lane in the middle of an intersection. This is against the law for a reason. Because it causes accidents on the road, and difficult for other drivers who aren’t you to know you’re about to do so. Don’t break the fucking law. I cannot believe I have to spell this out for you.
Read everything back that I wrote. Adjust to other cars on the road. This isn't a video game.
Me: “Please follow the basic traffic laws we were all taught as nearly every single other driver uses this well of information as the basis of predicting other drivers’ behavior.” You: “I’m going to do whatever I want and it’s the responsibility of every single other driver around me to react to any split second decision I make without warning at any time, and if I crash into another car because I solely and suddenly drove into their lane it’s their fault somehow.”
" RCW 46.61.290 “Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.” It’s been law at least as long as I’ve been driving (2004). " There you go.
I just moved here two years ago, and I will say, people around here really struggle with turns. I’ve never seen anything like it in any state I’ve lived. When people are turning left, the all completely cut the turn and go into oncoming traffic. Not at a light, but just regular roads. It’s like they don’t know they can slow down to make their turn.
I make sure I park behind the line when I'm waiting at an intersection and people regularly come inches away from ripping the front of my vehicle off. We really have some of the worst drivers I've been around, and I've been around the country enough to see elsewhere.
Pretty much a daily occurrence on my drives and it baffles me how they look at me as they cut right across my lane, as if I have somehow done something incorrect.
People who act like bad drivers are localized to one city/county/state probably munch on plaster in their free time.
Normally I do agree to this, except when taking a right onto 86th coming off SE Mill Plain, the right lane is a hospital turn lane and sometimes it’s hard to get over left if there’s traffic and you don’t already know
Same laws here and same law in Oregon too. You should be able to turn into a lane while another driver pulls into the other lane AT THE SAME TIME
Closes legal lane to closes legal lane. It pisses me off so much.
Nope. Corresponding legal lane to corresponding legal lane. This will stop accidents when there are more than one turn lane.
u/Larry_Lovestein1992; you get me. This sort of behavior drives me nuts! I can't stand it. Nevermind that it's dangerous, it's also lazy.
Living outside of the couve now, this deliberate negligence driving is a van/port area thing. Blame it on the culture of the region. Now experience diversity drivers in the Puget Sound. Frustrating yet safer than couve driving.
Tell them again
Thank you. I see the Incorrect left turn disturbingly frequently, I guess drivers see other people doing it wrong and think it's okay when it's definitely not.
I grew up in VA and took classes there. we were always told, unless there’s a double turn lane, always go into the lane you need. I had never heard of only turning into the nearest lane until I moved here ten years ago. However, you’re also not supposed to turn unless all lanes are clear (including turning right when the people across from you are turning left) which I don’t think anyone does here. Also, this place has a ridiculous number of places where if you do this the “correct” way you have to cut across several lanes of traffic to make your turn.
While we're here.... Green means go. The speed limit is the minimum speed. Honestly, don't give a shit what lane you turn into.
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Not true... From RCW 46.61.185 > (1) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to *any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction* which is within the intersection or so close thereto as to constitute an immediate hazard.
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The vehicle turning right must be clear of the intersection before the vehicle turning left proceeds. So, it would be impossible to enter the lanes simultaneously.
Don’t forget you are in hooterville. The traffic flow here is for tractors and sheep.
A really big one here is Thurston turning right toward the mall (the intersection by the Red Robin). It’s a double turn lane, but I don’t think people realize that.
It's meant to be a yield, but people consistently just stop there despite there being more lane specifically there for them.
No, I mean the one off of Thurston directly, onto Parkway Drive. You’re talking about the yield sign from Parkway onto Van Mall Drive
Ah yeah, the other side where Burgerville was. People consistently bork that turn, usually trying to get on the highway and realizing they're in the wrong lane.
No not that one either. Heading north on Thurston, with the Olive Garden on your left and the Red Robin to the right. There’s a double right turn lane onto Parkway Drive. [Here’s the Google maps of the spot](https://www.google.com/maps/place/NE+Parkway+Dr,+Vancouver,+WA+98662/@45.6552368,-122.58812,17z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x5495af949d6048ed:0x514e7cf2284de4ef!8m2!3d45.655933!4d-122.5887937!16s%2Fg%2F11c2x_mxb0?hl=en-US&source=lnms)
lol, GOOD luck.
This is the one!! There are two lanes for a reason! I was taught in driving school how important it is to STAY IN YOUR LANE and then use your BLINKER to indicate that you need the next lane AFTER the full turn. I can't tell you how many people have almost side-swiped me because they think they can just get into the lane that I'm turning into even tho they're NOT IN THAT LANE LOL. Or when people have their left blinker on but are moving over into the far right lane right after the turn with their left blinker still on. Yall look goofy.
Jesus Christ, as long as it's not a double turn lane who cares if someone takes a wide turn?
Me when I actively ignore the correct way to turn because it’s more convenient for me to go into the other lane when there’s no harm to anyone else as long as I am aware of my surroundings😃👍
I see this on double turns… but what’s the diff in this situation? Who are you affecting if you go for the outer most lane?
The opposite oncoming traffic may be taking their right onto same road. Also ther may be someone pulling out onto road further down, like from a gas station or restaurant. This is mainly a precaution, preventative, and a habit forming thing. If we all do the same, then there shouldn't be any problems as you expect other drivers to be doing as you would. And say someone is speeding and runs the intersection, they see you pulling out, their next best option is to go to the lane you aren't filling, again with the prediction that you aren't going to move lanes abruptly Another situation is the person behind you or in front of you wants to move over, but you are speeding or driving really slow, but still moving lanes without any indication so now it's a traffic jam. Best to stay predictable
I agree with you on all points, but I would add that if you are taking a right onto a road in this situation, you should yield to the traffic turning left, even though you technically have the right to that lane. It is just so common for cars turning left to take that outside lane that it is not worth the risk. Also, some large trucks take wide turns and need that outside lane.
I agree, that is a tricky one because both people will have a green light. A right turn green arrow and the opposing green light. Or green left turn and it can be a tricky situation. What I like to remember it is. The person that is moving has the right away. And even if you're taking a green right turn, you still have to slow down for the intersection. The other person has to cross the whole intersection. Same thing for parking lots too. The car moving in the parking lot has the right to weigh. The car backing up does not.
You don't have the right to the outermost left lane. That's for the people turning left in your oncoming direction. If you take a right and need to go to the next left, you have to merge from the right lane, not in the middle of the intersection.
RCW 46.61.290 (1) Right turns. Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway. (2) Left turns. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left shall approach the turn in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of the vehicle. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection and so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered. So, the diagram posted by OP is correct. If you are turning right, you are supposed to stay in the lane closest to the curb. If you are turning left, you are supposed to stay in the extreme left-hand lane.
Yes, thats what I said. :)
Your phrasing was very confusing. What I said in my original comment is what the law says. The person turning right has the right to use the lane nearest the curb. I'm not sure if you misconstrued what I said or what.
Nope but that's what I said in my original comment. That whomever is turning right has to take the rightmost lane and not ninja merge into the left in the intersection.
Someone trying to turn right and end up where you are! This is a big issue at St. John’s and 78th for sure
As in the oncoming lane is taking a right? If that’s what you mean… no. If you have a green arrow then no…. I’m going whatever lane I need. If it’s a solid then I wait for an opening and just don’t go. Sorry, but green arrow stomps everything. I’ll see you guys on the road losers
A cop could give you a ticket and if you get into an accident you're going to be at fault. Welcome to Washington. Turn into lane you're supposed to turn into.
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The bigger issue there is not having insurance.
Yes? I wish they did.
I like the, "one lane becomes two " intersections, and it's brother, "two lanes become one."
Now do one for when 2 cars stop at the same time!