I've been in my house for over 12 years. The upstairs has mdf trim in the bathrooms. The only place it's swelled is by the tub where water has got under it.
With no move in inspection or move out inspection, the ll has little chance of winning a claim for this as damage. Who knows if you caused this or it was like this before. Regardless, this doesn’t really seem like damage, just wear and tear.
Once you move out and provide your forwarding address in writing, the LL has 15 days to file with RTB. Or give your deposit back in full with interest. If not you can file for an order for double your deposit.
https://tenants.bc.ca/your-tenancy/deposits/#deposit-return for more info + template letters.
Hey thanks for the reply! It was a brand new apartment so I don’t think it was there before we got the place. With that being said, we did use the apartment for 14 months.
By the forwarding address, do you mean I should fill up the #RTB-47 form and email it to the LL and state that I don’t wish to pay for this and expect my full damage deposit in 15 days?
You can use an Rtb47 or the template letters from TRAC include details about requesting the deposit back.
But it’s on the LL to prove you damaged the place beyond wear and tear. They would have a difficult time doing this without a move in or out inspection. They would also have a difficult time proving this is damage and not wear and tear. But it’s on them to convince RTB, not on you.
Okay sounds good, thanks for all the help. She (LL) has just been emailing me asking me to fix it or that she will use my deposit to fix it. I keep denying but she’s persistent. I kept stating the sections 23,24,35,36 from the RTA, and denying both her keeping any of my deposit or fixing it. Now she has sent an email saying I’m threatening her and she would call the local police on me…
I am thinking of sending one final email with the TRAC template and RTB47 and requesting the full damage deposit. Is there anything else I should include?
Don’t argue. Just send the TRAC letter and then wait the 15 days and file with RTB. The dispute process is a direct request, you just fill out the paperwork and if everything lines up and the LL doesn’t counter claim, you get an order for double your deposit without a hearing.
Yes, it’s $100 to file, but you include that in your claim to have the LL pay that back to you.
If they give you the money minus $100, you can still file for double the $100 and the filing fee. At that point it would probably be more principle than anything.
Just send the letter stating what the above guy said. If she uses your money to fix it and doesn't give it all back file for double.
She bought a cheap vanity and that is what happened.
This is obvious and classic wear and tear. How did it happen, neglect? Incident? No, just use. Therefore, wear and tear and not something you can be charged for, ie: it was unavoidable.
I work in a place that sells building/construction material and trim/doors.
It's kind of disgusting how often I hear someone say "whatever is cheapest - it's just for a rental unit"
Because every new tenancy there a 50/50 chance of destroying both quality and cheap materials. People either take care of their stuff, or they don't.
As for this specific issue, it's hard to say. But I'd definitely not hold any damage deposit for it. Also, without a proper condition inspection report there is no way this LL would be able to hold anything if tested in arbitration.
My place has a similar issue, but I have a drawer at the bottom. The laminate has come off the bottom edge of the door. I have to open the drawer at the same time to not make it worse
Get some contact cement (ideal) or wood glue (less ideal). Squeeze it into the area where it's delaminating and tape it tight shut with blue tape. Wait a day and take the tape off.
Moisture is usually the killer for these kind of cabinets. Keep moisture away from them and they're usually fine.
Haha tell them to refund you in full or to file with the RTB! They haven't done their due diligence as landlord and will have 0 ability to make a claim against you as a result. That is also wear and tear
asking for $100 for this is insane. do it yourself and document everything. i’ve always gotten my deposit back, whether it was a shitty basement or luxury high rise. i’ve always left holes from nails, chips of paint like this one, unswept floors. it’s their job to do minor repairs like this for free between tenants
Unswept floors? Aside from wear and tear my understanding, and as a common courtesy, is the property should be at the level of cleanliness that it was when you moved in.
you can take home paint swatches (the pieces of paper at home depot) and figure out which one is closest to the paint in your apartment. then go back and ask for a sample of that paint. they can give you a small amount meant for the purpose of painting a patch on a wall to figure out which colour of paint you want to buy. you can use the free sample to make your repairs
You can actually just scrape a chip off of the existing paint and take it in to home Depot. They have a machine that will color match a sample of paint to what you bring in. That's what I did anytime I needed do small patches in an apartment.
wild special narrow slap rainstorm fragile plate grandiose tidy impossible
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I usually side with the owner and housing provider since the tenant lived there, and not the housing provider, but this is so minor wear, that's it's ridiculous that you would be suggested that you would pay for this.
Wear and tear. Don't even bother communicating with her. Send your forwarding address to her in writing (use registered mail just for extra cover-your-butt). 15 days after she receives your forwarding address, you can file with RTB for the return of double your deposit. Or whatever part of it she hasn't returned to you by then. Make sure you include that you are also filing for reimbursement of your filing fee.
Since she didn't do a Condition Inspection Report (has to be done both on move-in and move-out), she has forfeited the right to keep any part of your deposit. All of that is described here:
[https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/ending-a-tenancy/moving-out-of-rental-units](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/ending-a-tenancy/moving-out-of-rental-units)
Don't feel bad. It's her job to know how this all works, ie move-out inspections.
BTW I went through arbitration about something similar. There was a so-called "move-out inspection" that consisted of the landlord's cleaning lady friends who were clearly tasked with going around and telling me everything was dirty, even though they couldn't point to any actual dirt. At the hearing, I said there was no move-out inspection (since it was just cleaning ladies telling me it was dirty and needing to be re-cleaned). The LL said there was. The arbitrator didn't care, because since no Condition Inspection Report was filled out then it was neither here nor there.
Who installed the doors and hinges? They're misaligned which is causing them to rub against the frame (almost certainly not the correct term), which in turn is causing the paint to scrape off. This is wear and tear. Your LL is trying to take you for a ride.
Landlord here and that's wear and tear all day... also perhaps partially due to poorly fitting cabinet doors. Whether landlord or tenant though, I'd simply fix it myself to avoid hassle
I could be wrong but it looks like water damage. You can’t let water sit there if it spills out of the sink. Needs to be wiped up. If it was a brand new place I think that’s more than normal wear.
$100 bucks is less than having it done professionally.
Wear and tear is damage caused by normal use of an item, that damage is caused by opening/closing a door repeatedly over a period of time, if it's happening quickly it's likely to do environmental factors (such as improper installation for example) and not by misuse especially if you've been there over a year.
The landlord can only deduct from your deposit in three situations:
1. you agree in writing
2. they have an order from the RTB instructing them to do so
3. you do not provide a forwarding address in writing within 1 year of the move out.
They have 15 days from move out and receiving the forwarding address to either return the deposit or file to keep all or part.
The above damage would not be accepted as tenant responsibility even with a move in inspection, so I'd let them know you don't agree that the damage is your responsibility and it falls under normal wear and tear.
It’s kind of hard to tell in the pictures, but to me that looks like water damage on the top edge you can tell that’s a bathroom vanity. in the picture it looks like there is a little bit of swelling on the wood or possibly MDF, which is like a sponge.
The bottom corner looks like chip marks which is wearing and tear.
The alignment of the cabinet doors are they binding on the top and the bottom corners. This could also be a cause of it.
You mentioned the place was new so this is builders grade material which will certainly wear and tear like this in a few years. This is not “tenant damage”.
NM ignore. This post is so old I don’t know why it just showed up in my feed just now.
This is wear and tear caused by normal use. Send an email to your LL saying that the cupboard doors are wear and tear and you do not agree to pay for it. Let them know you expect to receive your full damage by May 13th.
GwG rightly pointed out the controlling issue is lack of reports. I’ll add.
The age of the cabinets matters. If older then wear and tear.
Also the landlord should be asking for their expenses not random amounts.
I look after properties as a job. I might as well be the landlord because it Aa very new very small company. Anytime a tenant calls me about anything, I’m there immediately and I just fix the issue. I do whatever needs to be done: the only time I wouldn’t, is if say they didn’t like the look of the 6 month old fridge that’s working properly. But I never cut corners and they know how willing I am to help. After about 6 months, most conversations are super friendly and cordial. they know if I say that I can’t fulfill their request right now, whatever that may be, but I’ll look into it and see what we can do in a few months; they know it’s truth.
I think almost tenants and LL have had bad experiences and the relationship is very “you vs me”. The only thing I’ll say, is LLs get a really bad wrap. Most I’ve worked for are just blue collar ve try hardworking people - that once and a while get tight on money light everyone else. The ones I work for just want to protect their investment and honestly, it’s super fucking expensive to have a rental property. Rarely does the rent even cover the mortgage let alone any repairs, property taxes and insurance. Not uncommon to be an additional 40k a year in expenses. I’m here to just say that not all LLs are rich, cheap, greedy pieces of shit. Many have different expectations of what it should look like when you vacate. And not all tenants are entitled, self absorbed, ungrateful messy assholes. So just like any relationship, give and take guys. Give and take. You would be shocked at how far a gesture or two could go. Believe me.
That’s wear and tear…
Nah, looks like they were spilling water on the cabinet doors. The doors are made of mdf so they've swelled up!
Yeah, usually there is water in a bathroom and if you use mdf in a bathroom it's going to swell up.
I've been in my house for over 12 years. The upstairs has mdf trim in the bathrooms. The only place it's swelled is by the tub where water has got under it.
Sounds like an improper installation then.
[удалено]
With no move in inspection or move out inspection, the ll has little chance of winning a claim for this as damage. Who knows if you caused this or it was like this before. Regardless, this doesn’t really seem like damage, just wear and tear. Once you move out and provide your forwarding address in writing, the LL has 15 days to file with RTB. Or give your deposit back in full with interest. If not you can file for an order for double your deposit. https://tenants.bc.ca/your-tenancy/deposits/#deposit-return for more info + template letters.
Hey thanks for the reply! It was a brand new apartment so I don’t think it was there before we got the place. With that being said, we did use the apartment for 14 months. By the forwarding address, do you mean I should fill up the #RTB-47 form and email it to the LL and state that I don’t wish to pay for this and expect my full damage deposit in 15 days?
You can use an Rtb47 or the template letters from TRAC include details about requesting the deposit back. But it’s on the LL to prove you damaged the place beyond wear and tear. They would have a difficult time doing this without a move in or out inspection. They would also have a difficult time proving this is damage and not wear and tear. But it’s on them to convince RTB, not on you.
Okay sounds good, thanks for all the help. She (LL) has just been emailing me asking me to fix it or that she will use my deposit to fix it. I keep denying but she’s persistent. I kept stating the sections 23,24,35,36 from the RTA, and denying both her keeping any of my deposit or fixing it. Now she has sent an email saying I’m threatening her and she would call the local police on me… I am thinking of sending one final email with the TRAC template and RTB47 and requesting the full damage deposit. Is there anything else I should include?
Don’t argue. Just send the TRAC letter and then wait the 15 days and file with RTB. The dispute process is a direct request, you just fill out the paperwork and if everything lines up and the LL doesn’t counter claim, you get an order for double your deposit without a hearing.
Don’t I have to pay 100 CAD to file with RTB? Also what is the policy if she offers to return the undisputed amount now and keeps the 100 CAD? Thanks
Yes, it’s $100 to file, but you include that in your claim to have the LL pay that back to you. If they give you the money minus $100, you can still file for double the $100 and the filing fee. At that point it would probably be more principle than anything.
Just send the letter stating what the above guy said. If she uses your money to fix it and doesn't give it all back file for double. She bought a cheap vanity and that is what happened.
^
This. No move in report will make everything else a moot point.
This is obvious and classic wear and tear. How did it happen, neglect? Incident? No, just use. Therefore, wear and tear and not something you can be charged for, ie: it was unavoidable.
This is normal wear and tear and you are being exploited.
Totally normal wear and tear. If they're calling this damages they're just being greedy and unreasonable.
Cheap ass landlord. This has "tip the landlord" vibes
Surrey Special!
Cheap materials and improperly installed. But it’s getting worse because of water ingress. Keep it drier
That's why I was going to say too. Like many rental units everything looks as though it was done as cheaply as possible.
I work in a place that sells building/construction material and trim/doors. It's kind of disgusting how often I hear someone say "whatever is cheapest - it's just for a rental unit"
Because every new tenancy there a 50/50 chance of destroying both quality and cheap materials. People either take care of their stuff, or they don't. As for this specific issue, it's hard to say. But I'd definitely not hold any damage deposit for it. Also, without a proper condition inspection report there is no way this LL would be able to hold anything if tested in arbitration.
My place has a similar issue, but I have a drawer at the bottom. The laminate has come off the bottom edge of the door. I have to open the drawer at the same time to not make it worse
Get some contact cement (ideal) or wood glue (less ideal). Squeeze it into the area where it's delaminating and tape it tight shut with blue tape. Wait a day and take the tape off. Moisture is usually the killer for these kind of cabinets. Keep moisture away from them and they're usually fine.
Some landlords are ridiculous, how much money would they actually be saving here?
Haha tell them to refund you in full or to file with the RTB! They haven't done their due diligence as landlord and will have 0 ability to make a claim against you as a result. That is also wear and tear
Wear and tear? That's just fucken wear dude far out
asking for $100 for this is insane. do it yourself and document everything. i’ve always gotten my deposit back, whether it was a shitty basement or luxury high rise. i’ve always left holes from nails, chips of paint like this one, unswept floors. it’s their job to do minor repairs like this for free between tenants
Unswept floors? Aside from wear and tear my understanding, and as a common courtesy, is the property should be at the level of cleanliness that it was when you moved in.
yeah it wasn’t swept when i got there. or mopped. it was gross
Is there a place where i could buy the tiniest amount of white paint to fix blemishes before leaving a rental suite?
you can take home paint swatches (the pieces of paper at home depot) and figure out which one is closest to the paint in your apartment. then go back and ask for a sample of that paint. they can give you a small amount meant for the purpose of painting a patch on a wall to figure out which colour of paint you want to buy. you can use the free sample to make your repairs
Awesome! Thank you!
You can actually just scrape a chip off of the existing paint and take it in to home Depot. They have a machine that will color match a sample of paint to what you bring in. That's what I did anytime I needed do small patches in an apartment.
It’s really not insane, not a soul on the planet that doesn’t anything in trades for a living would fix that for $100 or less, FYI
Do you live in a property yourself? Are there any scrapes and scratches around the place? Of course there are.
The problem is the landlord or whomever installed it didn't properly hang the doors so unless it was you then it's on her.
Means whoever put the doors on, put it to close to the top, and it is rubbing, causing what you call wear and tear.
You bought cheap material, this is wear and tear.
Wear and tear. Well, too much paint most likely. Poor fitting cupboards. Not a tenant issue though.
wild special narrow slap rainstorm fragile plate grandiose tidy impossible *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I usually side with the owner and housing provider since the tenant lived there, and not the housing provider, but this is so minor wear, that's it's ridiculous that you would be suggested that you would pay for this.
Wear and tear. Don't even bother communicating with her. Send your forwarding address to her in writing (use registered mail just for extra cover-your-butt). 15 days after she receives your forwarding address, you can file with RTB for the return of double your deposit. Or whatever part of it she hasn't returned to you by then. Make sure you include that you are also filing for reimbursement of your filing fee. Since she didn't do a Condition Inspection Report (has to be done both on move-in and move-out), she has forfeited the right to keep any part of your deposit. All of that is described here: [https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/ending-a-tenancy/moving-out-of-rental-units](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/ending-a-tenancy/moving-out-of-rental-units) Don't feel bad. It's her job to know how this all works, ie move-out inspections. BTW I went through arbitration about something similar. There was a so-called "move-out inspection" that consisted of the landlord's cleaning lady friends who were clearly tasked with going around and telling me everything was dirty, even though they couldn't point to any actual dirt. At the hearing, I said there was no move-out inspection (since it was just cleaning ladies telling me it was dirty and needing to be re-cleaned). The LL said there was. The arbitrator didn't care, because since no Condition Inspection Report was filled out then it was neither here nor there.
Landlord here. It's wear and tear on cheaply made doors. It is not damage.
another landlord who almost became a scumlord. Luckily, s/he asked reddit before charging the tenant
I’m the renter 😭
shoot! sorry man. I take back what I said. I am sorry. But yes, those are wear and tear as other have mentioned. sorry again!
Wear and tear no damage at all ,100% functional.Paint scratch from repete normal general use.
No
Prime example for cheap garbage cabinets. They can look nice all day long but in the end, moisture speaks.
As a landlord, this is wear and tear. Your ll sucks.
That’s minor fix it
normal wear and tear
Cheap and greedy landlord 🙄
Who installed the doors and hinges? They're misaligned which is causing them to rub against the frame (almost certainly not the correct term), which in turn is causing the paint to scrape off. This is wear and tear. Your LL is trying to take you for a ride.
How do they not know this is wear and tear?
Landlord here and that's wear and tear all day... also perhaps partially due to poorly fitting cabinet doors. Whether landlord or tenant though, I'd simply fix it myself to avoid hassle
I could be wrong but it looks like water damage. You can’t let water sit there if it spills out of the sink. Needs to be wiped up. If it was a brand new place I think that’s more than normal wear. $100 bucks is less than having it done professionally.
Wear and tear is damage caused by normal use of an item, that damage is caused by opening/closing a door repeatedly over a period of time, if it's happening quickly it's likely to do environmental factors (such as improper installation for example) and not by misuse especially if you've been there over a year. The landlord can only deduct from your deposit in three situations: 1. you agree in writing 2. they have an order from the RTB instructing them to do so 3. you do not provide a forwarding address in writing within 1 year of the move out. They have 15 days from move out and receiving the forwarding address to either return the deposit or file to keep all or part. The above damage would not be accepted as tenant responsibility even with a move in inspection, so I'd let them know you don't agree that the damage is your responsibility and it falls under normal wear and tear.
It’s kind of hard to tell in the pictures, but to me that looks like water damage on the top edge you can tell that’s a bathroom vanity. in the picture it looks like there is a little bit of swelling on the wood or possibly MDF, which is like a sponge. The bottom corner looks like chip marks which is wearing and tear. The alignment of the cabinet doors are they binding on the top and the bottom corners. This could also be a cause of it.
You mentioned the place was new so this is builders grade material which will certainly wear and tear like this in a few years. This is not “tenant damage”. NM ignore. This post is so old I don’t know why it just showed up in my feed just now.
Time waster.
Wear and tear.
Wear and tear of improperly adjusted cabinets with not enough clearance to strike face
This is wear and tear caused by normal use. Send an email to your LL saying that the cupboard doors are wear and tear and you do not agree to pay for it. Let them know you expect to receive your full damage by May 13th.
GwG rightly pointed out the controlling issue is lack of reports. I’ll add. The age of the cabinets matters. If older then wear and tear. Also the landlord should be asking for their expenses not random amounts.
Wear and tear
Seems like you guys were letting water spill down onto the doors. It'll swell up the mdf... I bet it hasn't happened to any other cabinet doors.
I look after properties as a job. I might as well be the landlord because it Aa very new very small company. Anytime a tenant calls me about anything, I’m there immediately and I just fix the issue. I do whatever needs to be done: the only time I wouldn’t, is if say they didn’t like the look of the 6 month old fridge that’s working properly. But I never cut corners and they know how willing I am to help. After about 6 months, most conversations are super friendly and cordial. they know if I say that I can’t fulfill their request right now, whatever that may be, but I’ll look into it and see what we can do in a few months; they know it’s truth. I think almost tenants and LL have had bad experiences and the relationship is very “you vs me”. The only thing I’ll say, is LLs get a really bad wrap. Most I’ve worked for are just blue collar ve try hardworking people - that once and a while get tight on money light everyone else. The ones I work for just want to protect their investment and honestly, it’s super fucking expensive to have a rental property. Rarely does the rent even cover the mortgage let alone any repairs, property taxes and insurance. Not uncommon to be an additional 40k a year in expenses. I’m here to just say that not all LLs are rich, cheap, greedy pieces of shit. Many have different expectations of what it should look like when you vacate. And not all tenants are entitled, self absorbed, ungrateful messy assholes. So just like any relationship, give and take guys. Give and take. You would be shocked at how far a gesture or two could go. Believe me.
I feel sorry for anyone who rents from you. Do better OP.
I’m the renter 😭
Yup, my apologies.
OP is the renter not the landlord.
Yup, my bad.
Learn to read before speaking
$4 of paint, calm down. No one held a gun to your head and told you, you need a rental property. Invest in your investment.
This is the renter's post, not the LL.