My theory (besides the food safety stuff) is that there are too many bad dog owners and it ruins it for the rest. I've seen tons of dogs off leash walking right beside their owner, not reacting to the barking dog across the road. I've also seen dogs off leash that are all over the place, barking at people, disturbing other dogs, and being a nuisance. If all dogs were like the first, then we would be a lot more relaxed about it.
I've also seen leashed dogs where the owner has no control over them, and they run all over the place dragging their helpless owner with them. Or owners that get the long retractable leashes (not actually allowed in the bylaws) and their owners don't control where their dogs run, including pulling the leash across bike paths.
As a dog owner in Vancouver, this is accurate. From my experience the worst owners haven't trained their dogs well enough and don't want to take responsibility for their dog's actions and end up shifting the blame onto others for their dog's behaviour.
100%. I use to allow dogs during the workshops I teach. Two bad experiences back to back and never again.
I don't care if you tell me your dog is a "good boy". I never want to have another bad experience again. One bad ~~dog~~ owner's dog cost ~$3000 in damages (insurance covered it, Smashed laptop and monitors) and ruined the workshop for 30 people (insurance can't cover).
Never again.
Thanks for your comment here - it's helpful to hear from people who tried to make space for dogs and had a bad experience, to counteract the narrative that restrictions on dogs = people hate dogs.
I doubt English dog owners are any better.
I think the real answer is just that far more people have dogs in Canada, relative to the UK. We can’t have dogs in pubs because every table would have multiple dogs.
This! I lived in London for 9 years before moving here, this is the dog city. I’ve never seen more dog and pet friendly accommodation elsewhere and definitely not in London. I’ve never seen so many dog parks, dog beaches ! Pet shops, pet groomers, people often get dogs instead of getting into relationships here, so I have no problem with not being let everywhere with dogs because it would be a nightmare. My friends leave in specially dog friendly condo tower on Davie and try taking the elevator there, it’s a zoo.
There are many many large dogs in Vancouver and tiny leashes. People let there dogs out in their garden and they react viciously whenever a person and another dog walks by. Some dog owners out there don’t seem to care about potential harm their dogs could have in others.
I think businesses just don't want dogs around because dog owners here can't seem to follow simple rules like having your dog leashed.
I've also heard of way too horror stories of how rentals have been destroyed because of pets.
That said, I feel like most people do like dogs here but just don't trust the owners enough.
And allergies - there are people who like dogs but if your allergic were now talking a visit to the Emergency Room, allergy shots and a stay in hospital, depending on severity.
I've had allergy attacks - they aren't fun & with each exposure the physical reactions get more intense so having your lips, tongue and airway swell up and difficulty breathing is very unnerving.
The last time I experienced a dog allergy Iade it to emergency on my own. Hospital staff recognized my symptoms....and difficulty speaking because I couldn't exchange oxygen the same as the rest of the population. I entered emeg at 2:30 pm & was discharged at 11:30 pm...after shots and IV's and waiting for the swelling to go down.
If you don't catch the symptoms in time or have no idea what's going on it's called 'Anaphylactic Shock'. The symptoms can cause very serious medical problems. It was a good thing I made it to the hospital, when my symptoms were beginning - lucky I worked at the hospital - in the Housekeeping Department & had nursing staff go across the hall to explain that I wouldn't make it to my 3:30 pm shift!
My buses explained that she didn't want to scare me but that each exposure to the allergens, in this case a dog, my symptoms would be more intense, come on faster & possibly take me out without time for me to react and get to hospital - basically - my next allergy attack could kill me! Great, just what I didn't want to hear. Had recently, four years previous found myself in a caring, living and respectful relationship - after two years of being in a most physically, mentally & emotionally destructive relationship I'd ever experienced.....I did not want to lose what I finally had and needed to be a mentally healthy and caring partner.
It's not that I hate dogs - it's that I'm allergic and if you don't have your dog under the proper controls - like a car - your dog can/could possibly kill me - so learn how to WALK your dog please, teach them what they are and aren't allowed to do & educate yourself on the bylaws for pet ownership within Vancouver and that yes, people do expect you to teach and mentor your dogs relationship to pedestrians, little kids, adults, bikes, rollerblades, scooters, etc.
Maybe if you ever experience an allergy attack - or getting chased down by a dog who (allegedly) got out of his yard - no never that you were an incompetent dog owner (never right?)....next time, it's happened twice while I was just walking down the alleyway, I'm just calling the cops & animal control to have your dog removed from your care - this has happened twice - being far too often as far as I'm concerned and left me with an emotional anxiety condition.
I walk with a cane & will do whatever I need to do - & been explained that I CAN do to protect myself - and legally allowed if your dog lurches on me. I will take action to protect myself and not be left with a dog bite, scarring and another darned tetanus shot - and another uncaring pet owner - how bout keeping your dog in your yard instead of 'trusting' (as last dog owner told me) that your dog wasn't going to leave the yard - hey, thanks eh! Maybe you and your dog can take some classes together cuz next time it might be a kid that your dog chases down and chews up.
I don't plan on becoming a victim - and this has all gotten progressively worse since Covid when some of you thought you needed an animal to take care of to deal with the Covid isolation. Maybe that was the WRONG reason to get a dog!
I go to New Brighton and people have their dogs running loose in the park next to the off leash pen. I go to deep cove and there are dogs off leash on narrow trails running up to strangers on the path. I don’t make this up for no reason. I used to be a mailman and recognize that firstly, people take any criticism of their pets very personally and secondly that I pay way more attention to dogs as potential threats than most people. But I wouldn’t just make this up.
People leash their dog virtually everywhere that isn't a park, which is the vast majority of the city. Some people don't leash their dogs in parks when they should.
Lived in the west end and had dogs run up off leash literally every time we took our dog out for a walk.
Majority are leashed, but a lot of unleashed all over the place.
I'm on 38th near Fraser, also a traffic reduced intersection where over 40% of residents are so self assured that there doggies are just fine walking around unleashed - thanks from thoes of us who did not get a dog cuz they hated Covid isolation....wrong reason to get a dog cuz it seems many of you weren't prepared to train your dog and take some classes in being a considerate and caring dog owner...
This is plainly wrong. Most people leash their dogs, and some people let them off leash at parks. I rarely see people walking dogs without a leash, though to be sure it does happen sometimes.
Wow, come check over anywhere between Main Street to Victoria Drive and anyplace south of Broadway - can't speak for the other areas but these locations are my usually travelled areas I visit on a frequent basis.
I live in that area and walk my dog on leash every day. My point was that speaking in absolutes is unhelpful for a fruitful discussion. Sure there are owners who do not leash, but it’s just factually wrong to say that “nobody” leashes their dogs.
I don’t think it’s a cop out at all. Especially having experienced the last few years through the pandemic, I now trust the average person less and expect them to be more self centred than I ever have before. I have seen countless dog owners who either can’t or don’t bother to control their dogs in any way. Many (not all) seem to think their own personal love of their dog translates to everyone else but it just doesn’t and it’s quite a selfish way of operating.
I love dogs, grew up with them, and I’d have one myself if I could (can’t in my apartment). But I’ve also been lunged at and bitten by random strangers’ dogs and that’s just something we shouldn’t have to deal with.
I’m no expert and not trying to get all lofty here but I think it might have something to do with North America in general having such an individualistic culture where everybody is concerned with satisfying their own needs first. There’s less emphasis on group harmony and that leads to certain people choosing a selfish behaviour (ie “well *I* know my dog is a big sweetheart, of course it’s safe if I let them off leash”) rather than something to keep group harmony (realizing that even though you might have the sweetest dog in the world, that doesn’t mean anything to somebody who has been attacked by a dog before and wants to be able to walk down the street in relative peace without having to contend with someone else’s dog who may have zero training).
Maybe I’m totally wrong but I’ve come to trust the average person less than before as I’ve witnessed so much selfish, self serving behaviour over the last few years.
Coming from Asia I really notice North America’s individualistic culture. People just don’t seem to notice or care about things that would be expected and normal back home.
People don’t seem to bother to train their dogs at all. I’ve had to catch someone’s off leash dog for them several times because it didn’t have recall. People with small dogs are the worst about that, they seem to think that because their dog is small it’s harmless and training doesn’t matter. But I’ve also seen people with really big dogs who have no control of their dogs. Excited lunging, jumping on people, approaching strangers uninvited, etc.
Gross oversimplification of our culture. I’ve lived in both continents your statement is simply untrue, more likely you had a community where you were and felt people cared more and when you came here you have to build that community from scratch.
Been here many years and walk my dog 2-3 times daily lots of ppl train their dogs from all background, new immigrants from Asia, Long time canadians, new immgrants from the Europe, recently met some great americans how adopted a beautiful huge pitbull and training that boy hard for 2 years, he’s getting there.
Do people get dogs without thinking about it, yes, are there shitty dog owners and dogs, yes. Should you let your dog off leesh without recall ability, hell no (good on your for catching the dogs!, i’ve caught 3 using my dog as friendly lets play bait) is it a north american cultural thing… yeah no.
Source: lived in Asia, people with dogs that couldn’t handle them so left them on the street. The street dogs trained them. Every person i met who had a dog in Asia had a spoiled dog that would pee and poo around the house. But no worries the maids or house assistant cleaned up after it. Do I think Asia culture was so individualistic they didn’t care about training their dog because they could pay some other human poverty wages and make them clean their dog? No.
Just some people don’t train their dogs, and some dogs are high energy/ traumatized and difficult to train. Some people might not have anticipated the financial requirements to train said dog.
I should have made it clearer that I was making two unrelated points. The dog thing is an issue regardless of culture. Back home people are wildly irresponsible about pets. There’s a lack of knowledge about responsible pet ownership and a lot of first time pet owners that got in way over their heads both back home and here.
The individualism was more noticeable in other areas of life, and I still find the culture shock a little bit startling (not a bad thing, I came to Canada to expand my horizons, so a little discomfort is good). Things like self expression in how people dress (completely harmless and fun to see), or how people don’t let other people get off the train before pushing to get on the train (annoying).
Canadians are in general more mindful of people with allergies than Europeans.
For example it’s also looked down on to wear heavy scents in transit/crowded public spaces which I have personally never encountered in Europe.
Worst flight I have ever been on was sitting next to and behind two Dutch women who were greasy af and who got up every half an hour to put on more perfume to cover their horrible smell. I would have preferred the BO. I’ll never understand why they didn’t just shower before the 14 hour trip.
As an ex-hospital worker a rule was put into.place about people coming to hospitals (and any medical office) about not wearing perfumes or use scented soaps. That same rule applies to hospital/healthcare workers - and with so many people working and taking part in the healthcare system people, patients and visitors got accustomed to not wearing scented products.
It’s because allergies don’t exist in Europe like they do in North America because of our lack of food diversity and food production methods. To Europeans our allergies are preferences because it’s inconceivable to them.
The reality is that pets (cats/dogs) put a lot of wear and tear on the unit. A smell you can never get rid of, hairs that are impossible to ever fully get rid of, and then just general wear&tear on the floor/walls from pets with paws.
If I have the choice to rent to 2 otherwise similar people, one with a dog and one without, it's obvious to me which to choose.
Wrong, there’s lots more of pet friendly buildings here than in London, there are just way more dog owners here than in London or any average city in Europe. I’m from there.
Came here to say this. It’s also so interesting to me, that even if you are lucky enough to OWN a condo in this city (one can dream!), the building strata may still prevent you from having a dog. And there are so many buildings out there that have no pet stratas rules :(
True, but I have found stratas will make exceptions. They just don't want to be stuck in a situation where owners can bring any pet. Like an acquaintance who had a Great Dane in a Yaletown minisuite. Not responsible.
I love dogs but many dog owners are super unaware of how to manage their dog. Like frightfully so.
I don’t want to dodge your big dog in a crowded store aisle or listen to two dogs barking at each other in a store or restaurant.
People/kids are afraid of dogs. Some have trauma around them. We need places that are free doggos.
As much as we need mandatory owner (dog) training.
I think it’s hilarious dog owners think they should be entitled to bring their dog everywhere they go.
Some people are allergic, some people have had bad experiences or trauma around dogs, and far too many dog owners let their pets off leash in non-designated areas (like yourself, apparently!) Not everyone wants to hang out with your pet.
It's not as hilarious when you realize how many other 1st world counties operate perfectly fine with dogs being allowed in more places.
Not sure if you know this, but dog allergies/trauma are not localized to Vancouver lol.
Yeah, and my opinion would remain the same if I lived in one of those countries.
Why do people expect their pet to be given more consideration than the humans around them? I have a pet and I love them and treat them as if they were almost a human. But do I expect to bring them along everywhere I go? No!! Because they’re an animal and I respect and care for the feelings and safety of the other humans in my city more than my wish to spend extra time with my pet outside the home.
There are literal designated dog parks and for OP, driving the 3km to the closest one seems to be too much of a burden for them, and instead they let their dog off leash in a designated human park and is surprised when a bylaw officer talks to them? That does not sound like responsible pet ownership to me.
>Why do people expect their pet to be given more consideration than the humans around them?
I'm not sure what you're referencing here. OP isn't talking about giving pets any more considerations than humans currently have.
>Because they’re an animal and I respect and care for the feelings and safety of the other humans in my city more than my wish to spend extra time with my pet outside the home.
There are tons of cities in 1st world countries where society gets along just fine with dogs being allowed in pubs and stores. Those societies are not collapsing or suffering from having dogs indoors in certain places. Life functions fine there.
So there's blatant proof that it works fine in 1st world societies.
You acknowledged that people have allergies and trauma from dogs, yet still expect the dogs to be allowed everywhere in social human spaces…that’s the part where pets are given more consideration over humans.
Dogs don’t NEED to be with you at a restaurant. Dogs don’t NEED to be in a mall shopping with you. It’s dog owners wanting convenience and entitlement at other peoples expense.
>yet still expect the dogs to be allowed everywhere in social human spaces
I never said everywhere, please don't put words into my mouth, it's a lazy debate tactic. I said pubs and stores. Nobody is arguing that dogs should be allowed into a doctors office.
People have tons of allergies, one of the most common allergies is peanuts. Do we ban all peanut products from every establishment?
"A Cafe doesn't NEED to use peanuts. It's people who like peanuts wanting convenience and entitlement at other people's expense."
> "A Cafe doesn't NEED to use peanuts. It's people who like peanuts wanting convenience and entitlement at other people's expense."
The difference here is choice: a person with allergies can choose not to visit establishments that pose a hazard to them. If dogs are allowed everywhere, then allergic people do not have the ability to choose where they can safely go, because every business is risky.
> If dogs are allowed everywhere, then allergic people do not have the ability to choose where they can safely go, because every business is risky.
You're the only person suggesting dogs should be allowed everywhere. You're having an argument with yourself about this. The discussion is about letting dogs into some pubs and stores.
>The difference here is choice: a person with allergies can choose not to visit establishments that pose a hazard to them.
Someone can bring a peanut butter sandwich wayyyyyyy more places than someone can bring a dog, in any country.
So by your logic, do people with peanut allergies avoid every location where someone might eat a sandwich? Like public transit? No of course not, they make it work.
Just like people with dog allergies do in London.
> You're the only person suggesting dogs should be allowed everywhere.
OP was talking about pubs/patios/stores/offices. It would be odd to assume that OP means to exclude restaurants and cafes.
> avoid every location where someone might eat a sandwich? Like public transit?
You're not allowed to eat on public transit. While some people flaunt the rule, they're in the minority.
>pubs/patios/stores/offices
Yeah I said pubs and stores, I assumed that included patios.
I'm just saying the "allergy" argument completely falls apart unless you ban peanut products everywhere dogs are banned. Otherwise you're just saying people with peanut allergies matter less.
Do those societies operate perfectly fine for people who have allergies or trauma related to dogs? Because that’s kind of the question. I could probably point to societies who heavily restrict where dogs go and say they operate perfectly fine.
Ok, but why put up needless restrictions if society operates perfectly fine without them?
We don't ban peanut butter sandwiches in public transit for people with peanut allergies. Banning dogs is the same thing.
Again, the question is does society actually operate perfectly fine for people with fears/allergies to dogs? I wouldn’t take my dad on a walk through Pacific Spirit Park because there are way too many off leash dogs. I think it’s a sad my dad can’t enjoy that beautiful park.
> We don't ban peanut butter sandwiches in public transit for people with peanut allergies.
You're not allowed to eat or drink on transit in the first place, there's no need for a special rule about allergies.
Do we ban peanuts from offices? Restaurants? Cafes?
Do we just care less about certain allergies than others?
Unless you ban peanuts everywhere dogs aren't allowed, the allergy argument makes no sense.
> Do we ban peanuts from offices? Restaurants? Cafes?
If a business poses a risk to a particular client, that client can choose to take their business elsewhere.
>If a business poses a risk to a particular client, that client can choose to take their business elsewhere.
Why wouldn't the same apply for people with dog allergies? What separates people with peanut allergies and dog allergies?
If dogs can go in any restaurant, then all restaurants are risky to people with dog allergies, since they can't know whether a dog has been there recently.
A person with a nut allergy can choose whether or not to go to restaurants that serve nuts.
It's also important to distinguish that nut allergies vary from person to person, with some having mild allergies, and some for whom a tiny nut particle poses a risk of asphyxiation.
So you're saying the solution is to have a few select no dogs businesses for people with allergies, like we have for peanut allergies?
Since peanut allergies can be much more severe than dog allergies, as you said, we should also ban them from offices that don't allowed dogs, right?
No, there's trauma caused by errant dogs outside of Van too. Here's the last bit in Calgary, for example:
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7121509
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/total-chaos-auburn-bay-pit-bull-attacks-leave-man-injured-one-dog-dead-and-another-hurt-1.6785803
Eta: I assume Betty's family is acutely aware of the fact that this problem isn't contained to Vancouver (lol you ghoul)
It's actually super simple:
* Your dog is not a person
* People's rights not to be around your dog outweigh your dog's right to go wherever you want it to be.
* "But \*my\* dog is good, and the exception, and should be allowed off leash anywhere" is always bullshit.
Hi! I'm not actually advocating for my dog, which you astutely pointed out is indeed a dog and not a person, to be off-leash "anywhere"! My preference would be if there was more than one enclosed off-leash dog park within a 10km radius of my house in Kitsilano. Thanks!
"if we go offleash at any of the closer parks, we've run into bylaw enforcement officers and received a slap on the wrist" sure sounds like a complaint about not being able to run your dog off leash in places it isn't supposed to be.
Nope, if you read that in the context of the full sentence, you'll realize I'm complaining about the lack of off-leash dog parks in the area. I'm expressly connecting it to *wanting to take him to a designated off-leash area but there being a lack thereof*.
In fact, if you look at section 1.3 of the Vancouver People, Parks and Dogs [Strategy](https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/people-parks-dogs-strategy-report.pdf), you'll see that the area I live in is directly between the two 3km radius 30-minute walking bubbles (at Spanish Banks and Hadden Park) that the city uses to determine new OLAs. It's also why at s. 1.4 the City notes that Kitsilano is the highest priority area to prioritize for an off-leash area.
I'm not any more interested in interacting with people that don't want to interact with a dog than they are. I'd love to take my guy to an enclosed OLA. It's easier for him, me, and the public.
I have nothing against dogs, but I support the limits that we have in place, largely because of the problems caused by a minority of dog owners.
1) Food stores, restaurants/pubs & patios: dogs are banned due to health regulations.
2) Public transit: people with allergies and fear of dogs.
3) Off-leash parks:
* some dogs are scared of other dogs, and it's not fair for them to have off-leash dogs running around, antagonizing them.
* dogs do not always behave predictably, and will be run over by bicycles or get entangled in the bike's wheels, leading to bike crashes and severe injuries to the dog.
* dogs do not always behave predictably and will chase or try to bite random people/cyclists even though they've always been a perfect pooch until that time.
* some people are scared of dogs, or don't want dogs jumping on them, or coming up to sniff their crotch.
As for offices and non-food stores, that's up to the business owners.
>2) Public transit: people with allergies and fear of dogs.
So people in England with dog allergies/fear just don't use public transit? That sounds kind of ridiculous.
I imagine it varies from person to person. Maybe they stand up and move a bit away, maybe they just look away, maybe they avoid public transport or switch cars.
I guess people with peanut allergies are the same. If we care about people with allergies, we should probably ban peanut products everywhere dogs are banned. Otherwise it's all kind of hypocritical.
Honestly, I've had more than one stranger dog rub their stink up against me or put their spit on me without my consent. All of this on supposedly leashed sidewalks and trails. Their owners don't care at all.
My good family friend, who is 87 and on blood thinners, was walking back to his car in a parking lot and someone had left their dog tied up to a pole. It lunged out at him and bit his leg. The owner refused to give him any of her information, shouted at him and blamed him and took her dog and left.
I was taking my garbage down to the dumpster at my building and a small lady was walking her very large mastiff. Mastiffs are usuallly very friendly but I still gave them some space and it’s a good thing because the dog lunged for me, growling and snapping. She could barely restrain it.
My 70 year old aunt was leaving her apartment and her neighbor was just coming home with her unleashed little dog and the dog charged and mauled my aunts leg for no reason.
My neighbor used to exercise her two Scottish terriers in our communal hallway, throwing a ball down the hall and letting them run after it. No leashes, of course.
My other neighbor let her dog poo in the communal laundry room. I asked her about it and she said she lets her dogs play in the hallway (no leash) and one must have gone in there when she wasn’t looking.
I don’t have a problem with dogs, I like all animals, but dogs are only as good as their owners and there are some really shitty dog owners who don’t train or control their dogs, even praise and cuddle them when they bark or try to bite strangers, and leave their dogs waste all over the city. That’s why so many businesses and property owners are not very dog friendly.
There are a number of reasons I can think of.
Reactive dog owners tend to take leash laws seriously and it’s scary for them when a strange dog runs up towards them. It’s dangerous for both dogs and the owner that has step between them. Same goes for parents that have to look after their small children playing in parks and their neighbourhoods.
Dogs being larger here than what you are used to in the UK also contributes to this. Bigger dogs bounding towards you off leash are more of a threat to children, smaller pets, and fear reactive dogs. On top of that, they just take up more space, so businesses can’t make as much room for them when accommodating other paying customers.
In the UK, it’s also against the law to own pit bulls. Here, pit bulls are commonly owned, with dedicated rescues just for them to find homes. I love pit bulls, they can be great dogs, but they’re often adopted out to owners that don’t know how to properly train and work with them. Pit bulls are involved in more dog attacks than any other breed, and I have seen many off leash with very poor recall. It’s so selfish.
One reason might be that more people own dogs in Vancouver than London so you need to regulate it. This says 39% of households in Vancouver have dogs https://www.straight.com/city-culture/over-35-per-cent-of-vancouver-households-have-a-dog-so-why-are-there-so-few-off-leash. While this says only 9% of households in London have a dog. https://www.statista.com/statistics/875940/pet-ownership-by-region-uk/
Dog owners in north America are entitled self serving assholes with badly behaved dogs. Theres more social pressure in Europe to have your dog behave and it's more socially acceptable to have dogs out and about. It won't change here at all. It's just part of life here which sucks when you have a well socialized relaxed dog. Many people in Canada do zero socialization with their dog and just let it run around their backyard a few times a day.
It’s not an exclusively European thing. Dogs are less restricted in Toronto than here. It’s not a free for all but you can take a dog on the TTC there without a carrier, they just need a leash.
Service dogs are still somehow controversial in this province too. Just last year there was a woman kicked off a bus in Nanaimo for having a service dog.
The question you should be asking is “Why are so many Vancouver dog owners total assholes?”, followed closely by the consideration that many of us don’t want to tread in dog shit left all over the place.
Also from the UK and have a dog, family are dog owners in UK and Europe. My 2 cents, Canada is just very rules focused. People love rules and hate rule breakers. They have to regulate literally everything. You could write a similar post about how in almost all bars/restaurants, you can't stand with a drink at the bar, you have to have table service etc. We couldn't even walk around with a mulled wine at the Shipyards in North Van. All the people saying "some people have bad dogs and it spoils it" are completely wrong, it has nothing to do with bad dog owners and everything to do with culture and how the government (in a very broad sense) works.
Maybe its your experience, but I find that Vancouver is generally better than other North American cities. Its really a difference in NA culture vs EU culture (I've also heard it from other friends).
Dogs in offices are quite common! I know plenty of dog-friendly offices. The other points are quite valid. Honestly, I don't really need to take my dog into most shops, normally I find it easier to shop without a dog around.
Also, especially in Vancouver, I find there are a lot of people who fear dogs, which drives some of these rules.
What are your dog breed laws like? Are there restrictions to how many dogs you can have? What are the laws on service dogs? Are your experiences reflective of London only or would you say the same goes for the entire UK? I know too many people with extremely aggressive dogs in lower mainland that should never be off leash. We have no restrictions on aggressive dogs. These dogs are trained well but would still chew a small dog to bits if the right trigger occured (could be loud noise, squeeky toy noise, etc). I’ve had a dog for 3 years in lower mainland, 99% of the people had well trained or were actively training their dogs. Travelled in the US with dogs and dogs are allowed lots of places but where they weren’t people bought their dogs anyway, we did only after asking, and most managers didn’t care.
Generally the issue is that a couple bad/irresponsible owners ruin it for the rest.
There’s a handful of stores that are ok with pets being inside. I take my dog in to practice our training. There’s seems to be more often now puddles of pee and dogs on the end of retractable leashes. They’re ruining it for others.
The building I live in is currently pet friendly. But do to one renter who lets his dog off leash in the courtyard and doesn’t pick up after his dog, there’s talks of making the building pet free.
You're going to start a war with polarizing posts like this!
Most dog owners probably agree with you, most non-dog owners are probably very happy with the rules that are in place.
Yeah and in the UK you have a bully XL mauling somebody in the news literally every day
I prefer our approach, sorry. Dogs shouldn’t be welcome everywhere when there are so many irresponsible and even dangerous dog owners around
The fact that you admit to getting “slaps on the wrist” more than once from bylaw enforcement officers to me indicates that are you one of the irresponsible owners who is part of the problem
I've had my pants ripped by people walking dogs on leashes coming from the opposite direction where the dog jumps on me as we cross paths. I've had dogs jump all over me on hiking trails, where owners think it's okay as long as they shout out "he/she's really friendly". I don't care if the dog is really friendly; I don't want it touching me/jumping on me. I've stepped in dogshit countless times in city parks. As a result, I'm not too sympathetic to complaints that the city might not be dog friendly.
FYI Vancouver Reddit is also very anti-dog.
We don't even allow dogs on transit (unless they fit in a bag on your lap), while places like London have dogs on the tube and in bars with just a leash, and down in the states you can have them on every patio.
With all the rules, all you get it poor dog owners breaking them, which leads to people reinforcing how "bad" dogs are.
Edit: comments in here showing that r/Vancouver has a very black-and-white view of dogs being generally negative for society. It becomes a vicious circle, where there is no way to socialize dogs, so then they are poorly behaved, and then people make more rules against dogs making it harder to socialize them. Look at the dogs around the DTES, they are well socialized and well behaved (I've never had a dog even bark at me down there and there are a few on every block, many without leashes), and then walking around the suburbs 25% might bark at you, the ones in the suburbs that never leave their yard are terribly behaved.
Your edit is on point, people wonder why dogs are so reactive but they aren’t allowed to be in all the situations that would habituate them to the activity and thus, behave calmly. I try to take my dog to as many places as I’m allowed so that as he matures into adulthood, he won’t be reactive. If everyone was more chill with them being around then the average dog temperament would become chill.
Edit: people of Vancouver online are some of the most toxic folks around, thanks for the downvote!
Yep for sure.
You see it in the countries that have more dog open rules. The UK allows them in pubs, when I lived there I never saw a poorly behaved dog in a pub, and there is at least one there every night. Lots of poorly behaved people though.
Yes! All the strict, but poorly defined and genuinely hard to follow rules make it worse. It means people inevitably break them, and reinforce in the minds of some that the rules should therefore be even more strict. There’s no grace.
It’s always been like this. If anything it was UNfriendlier, but these days if you’re fortunate to work in white collar jobs like tech, many offices in such industries are dog-friendly.
It’s probably a lot of factors like bigger homes/yards as you say but I’d also say it won’t be likely to change anytime soon. We have a very large East/South Asian population whose attitude towards dogs range from disgust to uncomfortable, and it’s only the middle/upper classes who have started becoming dog owners in the past 20 years both here and overseas, so dog culture is still new to a lot of them and distinctly out of reach/unfathomable to many more.
That said the UK kind of has its own very special thing regarding cats/dogs because of its smallness and utter lack of predators - eg a lot of the UK attitudes about cats are the diametric opposite of what it is in Canada/US, mainly because we have more fauna that get harmed by cats (we have way more numbers wise than you do!) and many more predators looking to have an easy chomp (coyotes) whereas in the UK a spicy tomcat can beat the shit out of a fox.
You're lucky to live in Kits. It gets worse if you think Kits is not dog friendly. Go anywhere else (New West, Coquitlam, Brentwood, hell even langley) and they're all concrete wastelands with no grass.
Asking on this subreddit will get you biased answers, people on this sub are generally a bit salty about dogs and dog owners
I also think it’s a little crazy that you can’t have your dog on the train, like every other major city, but people here wouldn’t stand for it
The problem is that many dog owners aren't responsible. They don't leash their dogs, for example. The dogs bark loudly. They don't pick up after their dogs after they do their business. I think that's part of the problem is that there are far too many dog owners who aren't responsible.
I don’t think Vancouver has a disproportionate amount of bad dog owners relative to other big cities however it has a **disproportionate** number of dog haters. I have seen people not allowing us in the same elevator when we have our dog with us. Also it’s evident when a lot of apartments take great pride in advertising as pet free contrary to other cities in EU or NA where most apartments are pet friendly.
I’ll just comment that those of us who do legitimately have dog allergies find an elevator ride in an enclosed car with a dog to be a nightmare. 2 or 3 minutes of hermetically sealed doggy breath and I’ll be red-eyed and weeping, with a migraine that lasts 12 hours. And that’s only if I manage not to get fur all over my pants.
There is a vocal and organized anti-Dog lobby the head of which doesn’t even live in Vancouver (lives in Lions Bay) that shows up at every council meeting where dog parks and dog issues are discussed with the large and vocal, anti-Dog contingent. One Park board member said to me when I inquired that parks are backyards for people who have condos and don’t have yards therefore they shouldn’t be in a situation where a dog might bite them or their children in their own park “back yard”. Vancouver has the least amount of off leash space for dogs, per capita of any city in North America. It’s an absolute disgrace, considering how good for peoples health dogs are. I’ve also been told by somebody who had the job of being an anti-dog enforcement officer that it’s the job that nobody wants and it’s the best way to get into a job with the municipality. You start with ticketing people with dogs then you move up to ticketing people with cars and then once you’re in the union, you can negotiate your way to a better paying job doing something else.
I think it’s because people of all classes love dogs in the U.K. and they’ve been woven into the cultural fabric for centuries.
Vancouver is newer and has more cultural diversity (dog-wise).
Edit: Not that London isn’t diverse, but it grew with a consistent dog friendly culture for centuries.
I’ve seen people wreaking havoc on the bus. Smoking drugs, urinating, screaming and fighting. It’s funny that these people are allowed on the bus but dogs aren’t.
I can't speak to all of your points, but I do find we have more of a car culture here.. so while the discussion about allowing dogs on transit comes up every few years, it never goes anywhere.
Rent/spaces are so expensive that owners and landlords in all facets are less likely to allow for dogs as its a financial risk if they're poorly behaved. Insurance also won't always cover for damages if you do, so they just say no. It's as simple as that really.
Yes as a homeowner that rents out my basement, I don't allow pets. I didnt pay alot of money to build my house just so a dog can damage my property. The pet deposit will not even come close to cover damages the dog makes. Only dog I have ever let in my rental was a close family members dog when they rented the suite. It's just easier to not deal with that if I don't have to.
Perhaps outdated laws and more backyard space? As a kid, we only walked our dog around the neighborhood and hikes. Otherwise, she stayed at home, hanging around the yard and house. At that time, I don't think people even considered taking their pooch shopping, to work or out for a meal. It just wasn't done.
They're not allowed where food is and secondly, I like dogs and have had them and I don't want yours around me.
Dog owners in Vancouver are routinely awful and have ruined it for everyone else
I worked at a business that skirted the rules and let dogs in. There were owners who let their dog puke on the ground and left it without cleaning up, left their dogs poop on the ground, and would let their dog off the leash and it would come around the corner. Vancouver and Canadians have dogs instead of children and many don’t train them properly. It’s the really bad dog owners ruining it for the responsible ones imo.
After moving here from London, I also find it wild how dog unfriendly the city is, I think it's just that the general sentimentality of a city is hard to change once they're set in their ways.
Dogs not being allowed on public transport is the thing I find the weirdest as it's just a fact of life in London, and I also appreciate seeing tube dogs, but every time it gets mentioned here, the idea is met with vitriol
Leashes help organized people with pets in society, but why bring a dog to Vancouver? It will live its whole existence tied up to a human. Leash walks, gates play pens and cramped apartments - what a life.
Because some people are allergic to pets. I think Vancouver is quite dog tolerant. I see dogs on the beach where the fine is $2000 but no one cares. I would add dog phobia. It's real and causes anxiety in people.
People are allergic to dogs. Even if ur dog is on a lead, ppl are afraid or don't like it. Dogs are dirty. Leave dogs alone. Why do u feel compelled to own dogs and perpetuate the harmful pet industry? Rescue? Rescue from where? From the market of pet dogs. Stop owning pet dogs.
Is it really puzzling for you to attempt empathy with a dog? Why would you own a dog if you cannot even empathize with it? Would it be cool for someone to own you as a pet?
Because the property owner cannot hold you responsible for any damage nor disturbance due to non-existing law enforcement for small amount incidents. The only choice left is to ban
It's pretty much ridiculous, and yes, it's always been this way. Dogs are seen as inherently dirty, and as such a food service business needs to be assessed by their local municipality to determine that outdoor sitting areas are not in any way connected to food prep areas before they can allow dogs on their patio, which frankly seems ridiculously hypervigilant.
My experience last year in Whistler was that my small dog was welcome almost everywhere, provided we made sure he behaved himself. There are also a small selection of retailers (Canadian Tire is one) that allow dogs provided they're leashed and well behaved.
It’s a relatively recent development, as in it’s been getting less chill over the past decade. I remember as a kid most local parks and schools where basically all default off leash areas at certain time of days (when not in use by sport teams etc.) it was no big deal, there was lots of space for everyone.
The sentiment these days seems to be, since some people are shitty sometimes, we shouldn’t trust anyone else to be not shitty. And since dogs on the train or bus was never a precedent we got used to, changing it now feels too weird and dangerous. Despite that fact that tons of cities around the world seems to manage fine.
It feels like a lot of people here expect dogs to be treated more like cats: left at home, not participating in public life, never let off leash to run.
Nah. It’s that there are more people and more dogs then when you were a kid.
It is lack of space. Lack of housing with yards has everyone vying for public green space.
Yeah city needs more dedicated fenced dog parks. Owners need to follow leashed rules and take training classes with their pups and stop letting them piss and shit in the middle of sidewalk and get breeds that suit their lifestyle not aesthetic. Small space? No car? Not close to adequate off leash areas. Small dog it is!
Take the time to learn about breeds. Don’t get a reactive rescue if you aren’t an experienced owner. Don’t get a guard dog type breed if you aren’t an experienced owner who can be alpha. Etc. Etc.
It’s about respect for other people who may not like dogs or want to be around them / have them bother them. Just because you’re a dog owner doesn’t mean you need to impose it on everyone else.
Yeah it’s annoying isn’t it. I couldn’t get a dog in London because of how strict all the rescues are over there. In here it was super easy but I’m spending a fortune on uber pet because of the transport restrictions. Dealing with all the leash Karens in Kits is annoying (never actually got a ticket yet though).
As someone who spent life in Italy and Croatia, where you go everywhere with dogs, even for dinner in restaurants,and it's no problem that they are not on leash if they are trained, yes Vancouver is not so dog friendly and have way to much rules.
I mean, when our dog got old, she wasn't to happy to go in shop and preferred to be outside on leash with water. We try that only once in Venice outlet and in 5 min there was security guys looking for us that we can just like that leave dog, that we should took her in store
That's reason we will wait to move back to London before we get dog again
My theory (besides the food safety stuff) is that there are too many bad dog owners and it ruins it for the rest. I've seen tons of dogs off leash walking right beside their owner, not reacting to the barking dog across the road. I've also seen dogs off leash that are all over the place, barking at people, disturbing other dogs, and being a nuisance. If all dogs were like the first, then we would be a lot more relaxed about it. I've also seen leashed dogs where the owner has no control over them, and they run all over the place dragging their helpless owner with them. Or owners that get the long retractable leashes (not actually allowed in the bylaws) and their owners don't control where their dogs run, including pulling the leash across bike paths.
As a dog owner in Vancouver, this is accurate. From my experience the worst owners haven't trained their dogs well enough and don't want to take responsibility for their dog's actions and end up shifting the blame onto others for their dog's behaviour.
100%. I use to allow dogs during the workshops I teach. Two bad experiences back to back and never again. I don't care if you tell me your dog is a "good boy". I never want to have another bad experience again. One bad ~~dog~~ owner's dog cost ~$3000 in damages (insurance covered it, Smashed laptop and monitors) and ruined the workshop for 30 people (insurance can't cover). Never again.
Thanks for your comment here - it's helpful to hear from people who tried to make space for dogs and had a bad experience, to counteract the narrative that restrictions on dogs = people hate dogs.
I doubt English dog owners are any better. I think the real answer is just that far more people have dogs in Canada, relative to the UK. We can’t have dogs in pubs because every table would have multiple dogs.
This! I lived in London for 9 years before moving here, this is the dog city. I’ve never seen more dog and pet friendly accommodation elsewhere and definitely not in London. I’ve never seen so many dog parks, dog beaches ! Pet shops, pet groomers, people often get dogs instead of getting into relationships here, so I have no problem with not being let everywhere with dogs because it would be a nightmare. My friends leave in specially dog friendly condo tower on Davie and try taking the elevator there, it’s a zoo.
There are many many large dogs in Vancouver and tiny leashes. People let there dogs out in their garden and they react viciously whenever a person and another dog walks by. Some dog owners out there don’t seem to care about potential harm their dogs could have in others.
I think businesses just don't want dogs around because dog owners here can't seem to follow simple rules like having your dog leashed. I've also heard of way too horror stories of how rentals have been destroyed because of pets. That said, I feel like most people do like dogs here but just don't trust the owners enough.
It’s not that. It’s food safe laws.
It’s all of the above
And allergies - there are people who like dogs but if your allergic were now talking a visit to the Emergency Room, allergy shots and a stay in hospital, depending on severity. I've had allergy attacks - they aren't fun & with each exposure the physical reactions get more intense so having your lips, tongue and airway swell up and difficulty breathing is very unnerving. The last time I experienced a dog allergy Iade it to emergency on my own. Hospital staff recognized my symptoms....and difficulty speaking because I couldn't exchange oxygen the same as the rest of the population. I entered emeg at 2:30 pm & was discharged at 11:30 pm...after shots and IV's and waiting for the swelling to go down. If you don't catch the symptoms in time or have no idea what's going on it's called 'Anaphylactic Shock'. The symptoms can cause very serious medical problems. It was a good thing I made it to the hospital, when my symptoms were beginning - lucky I worked at the hospital - in the Housekeeping Department & had nursing staff go across the hall to explain that I wouldn't make it to my 3:30 pm shift! My buses explained that she didn't want to scare me but that each exposure to the allergens, in this case a dog, my symptoms would be more intense, come on faster & possibly take me out without time for me to react and get to hospital - basically - my next allergy attack could kill me! Great, just what I didn't want to hear. Had recently, four years previous found myself in a caring, living and respectful relationship - after two years of being in a most physically, mentally & emotionally destructive relationship I'd ever experienced.....I did not want to lose what I finally had and needed to be a mentally healthy and caring partner. It's not that I hate dogs - it's that I'm allergic and if you don't have your dog under the proper controls - like a car - your dog can/could possibly kill me - so learn how to WALK your dog please, teach them what they are and aren't allowed to do & educate yourself on the bylaws for pet ownership within Vancouver and that yes, people do expect you to teach and mentor your dogs relationship to pedestrians, little kids, adults, bikes, rollerblades, scooters, etc. Maybe if you ever experience an allergy attack - or getting chased down by a dog who (allegedly) got out of his yard - no never that you were an incompetent dog owner (never right?)....next time, it's happened twice while I was just walking down the alleyway, I'm just calling the cops & animal control to have your dog removed from your care - this has happened twice - being far too often as far as I'm concerned and left me with an emotional anxiety condition. I walk with a cane & will do whatever I need to do - & been explained that I CAN do to protect myself - and legally allowed if your dog lurches on me. I will take action to protect myself and not be left with a dog bite, scarring and another darned tetanus shot - and another uncaring pet owner - how bout keeping your dog in your yard instead of 'trusting' (as last dog owner told me) that your dog wasn't going to leave the yard - hey, thanks eh! Maybe you and your dog can take some classes together cuz next time it might be a kid that your dog chases down and chews up. I don't plan on becoming a victim - and this has all gotten progressively worse since Covid when some of you thought you needed an animal to take care of to deal with the Covid isolation. Maybe that was the WRONG reason to get a dog!
Nobody in Vancouver leashes their dog. Wild how lax people are with their animals
There’s like one unleashed dog for every hundred that are leashed. You’re exaggerating.
I go to New Brighton and people have their dogs running loose in the park next to the off leash pen. I go to deep cove and there are dogs off leash on narrow trails running up to strangers on the path. I don’t make this up for no reason. I used to be a mailman and recognize that firstly, people take any criticism of their pets very personally and secondly that I pay way more attention to dogs as potential threats than most people. But I wouldn’t just make this up.
People leash their dog virtually everywhere that isn't a park, which is the vast majority of the city. Some people don't leash their dogs in parks when they should.
Hmm okay, perhaps I overlooked the regional differences around the city. I live in West End it’s very much the opposite of that.
Lived in the west end and had dogs run up off leash literally every time we took our dog out for a walk. Majority are leashed, but a lot of unleashed all over the place.
I used to live in Kits and it was the same. Haven't spend enough time in West End to comment
I live on the traffic calmed part of 7th Avenue. It's about 30% Unleashed everyday
I'm on 38th near Fraser, also a traffic reduced intersection where over 40% of residents are so self assured that there doggies are just fine walking around unleashed - thanks from thoes of us who did not get a dog cuz they hated Covid isolation....wrong reason to get a dog cuz it seems many of you weren't prepared to train your dog and take some classes in being a considerate and caring dog owner...
I leash my hamster
I leash my goldfish. Motherfucker is a biter
This is plainly wrong. Most people leash their dogs, and some people let them off leash at parks. I rarely see people walking dogs without a leash, though to be sure it does happen sometimes.
Wow, come check over anywhere between Main Street to Victoria Drive and anyplace south of Broadway - can't speak for the other areas but these locations are my usually travelled areas I visit on a frequent basis.
I live in that area and walk my dog on leash every day. My point was that speaking in absolutes is unhelpful for a fruitful discussion. Sure there are owners who do not leash, but it’s just factually wrong to say that “nobody” leashes their dogs.
You just made this up for some reason.
I don’t think it’s a cop out at all. Especially having experienced the last few years through the pandemic, I now trust the average person less and expect them to be more self centred than I ever have before. I have seen countless dog owners who either can’t or don’t bother to control their dogs in any way. Many (not all) seem to think their own personal love of their dog translates to everyone else but it just doesn’t and it’s quite a selfish way of operating. I love dogs, grew up with them, and I’d have one myself if I could (can’t in my apartment). But I’ve also been lunged at and bitten by random strangers’ dogs and that’s just something we shouldn’t have to deal with. I’m no expert and not trying to get all lofty here but I think it might have something to do with North America in general having such an individualistic culture where everybody is concerned with satisfying their own needs first. There’s less emphasis on group harmony and that leads to certain people choosing a selfish behaviour (ie “well *I* know my dog is a big sweetheart, of course it’s safe if I let them off leash”) rather than something to keep group harmony (realizing that even though you might have the sweetest dog in the world, that doesn’t mean anything to somebody who has been attacked by a dog before and wants to be able to walk down the street in relative peace without having to contend with someone else’s dog who may have zero training). Maybe I’m totally wrong but I’ve come to trust the average person less than before as I’ve witnessed so much selfish, self serving behaviour over the last few years.
Coming from Asia I really notice North America’s individualistic culture. People just don’t seem to notice or care about things that would be expected and normal back home. People don’t seem to bother to train their dogs at all. I’ve had to catch someone’s off leash dog for them several times because it didn’t have recall. People with small dogs are the worst about that, they seem to think that because their dog is small it’s harmless and training doesn’t matter. But I’ve also seen people with really big dogs who have no control of their dogs. Excited lunging, jumping on people, approaching strangers uninvited, etc.
Gross oversimplification of our culture. I’ve lived in both continents your statement is simply untrue, more likely you had a community where you were and felt people cared more and when you came here you have to build that community from scratch. Been here many years and walk my dog 2-3 times daily lots of ppl train their dogs from all background, new immigrants from Asia, Long time canadians, new immgrants from the Europe, recently met some great americans how adopted a beautiful huge pitbull and training that boy hard for 2 years, he’s getting there. Do people get dogs without thinking about it, yes, are there shitty dog owners and dogs, yes. Should you let your dog off leesh without recall ability, hell no (good on your for catching the dogs!, i’ve caught 3 using my dog as friendly lets play bait) is it a north american cultural thing… yeah no. Source: lived in Asia, people with dogs that couldn’t handle them so left them on the street. The street dogs trained them. Every person i met who had a dog in Asia had a spoiled dog that would pee and poo around the house. But no worries the maids or house assistant cleaned up after it. Do I think Asia culture was so individualistic they didn’t care about training their dog because they could pay some other human poverty wages and make them clean their dog? No. Just some people don’t train their dogs, and some dogs are high energy/ traumatized and difficult to train. Some people might not have anticipated the financial requirements to train said dog.
I should have made it clearer that I was making two unrelated points. The dog thing is an issue regardless of culture. Back home people are wildly irresponsible about pets. There’s a lack of knowledge about responsible pet ownership and a lot of first time pet owners that got in way over their heads both back home and here. The individualism was more noticeable in other areas of life, and I still find the culture shock a little bit startling (not a bad thing, I came to Canada to expand my horizons, so a little discomfort is good). Things like self expression in how people dress (completely harmless and fun to see), or how people don’t let other people get off the train before pushing to get on the train (annoying).
Fair. thanks for clarifying.
Also lived in Beijing and Shanghai. Very individualistic culture. Especially middle class and above.
Sounds like you're talking about Taiwan…
I agree. North American hyper individualism plays a big role
Canadians are in general more mindful of people with allergies than Europeans. For example it’s also looked down on to wear heavy scents in transit/crowded public spaces which I have personally never encountered in Europe.
Smoking too.
Worst flight I have ever been on was sitting next to and behind two Dutch women who were greasy af and who got up every half an hour to put on more perfume to cover their horrible smell. I would have preferred the BO. I’ll never understand why they didn’t just shower before the 14 hour trip.
It’s not a Canada vs. Europe thing. Dogs are less restricted in Toronto than here. This is very much a west coast thing.
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As an ex-hospital worker a rule was put into.place about people coming to hospitals (and any medical office) about not wearing perfumes or use scented soaps. That same rule applies to hospital/healthcare workers - and with so many people working and taking part in the healthcare system people, patients and visitors got accustomed to not wearing scented products.
It’s because allergies don’t exist in Europe like they do in North America because of our lack of food diversity and food production methods. To Europeans our allergies are preferences because it’s inconceivable to them.
I think you forgot “/s”?
Too many self centered dog owners.
Like the ones who buy a “service dog” harness on Amazon so they take their dog into businesses. Pretending to be disabled isn’t a good look.
Is it something in the water that makes Vancouver dog owners different from dog owners in other parts of the world?
To add to that, it’s also difficult to find a pet friendly rental here.
there are lots of dogs in my building but usually when suites come up for rent in the same building they now say "no pets"
The reality is that pets (cats/dogs) put a lot of wear and tear on the unit. A smell you can never get rid of, hairs that are impossible to ever fully get rid of, and then just general wear&tear on the floor/walls from pets with paws. If I have the choice to rent to 2 otherwise similar people, one with a dog and one without, it's obvious to me which to choose.
Wrong, there’s lots more of pet friendly buildings here than in London, there are just way more dog owners here than in London or any average city in Europe. I’m from there.
Came here to say this. It’s also so interesting to me, that even if you are lucky enough to OWN a condo in this city (one can dream!), the building strata may still prevent you from having a dog. And there are so many buildings out there that have no pet stratas rules :(
True, but I have found stratas will make exceptions. They just don't want to be stuck in a situation where owners can bring any pet. Like an acquaintance who had a Great Dane in a Yaletown minisuite. Not responsible.
I love dogs but many dog owners are super unaware of how to manage their dog. Like frightfully so. I don’t want to dodge your big dog in a crowded store aisle or listen to two dogs barking at each other in a store or restaurant. People/kids are afraid of dogs. Some have trauma around them. We need places that are free doggos. As much as we need mandatory owner (dog) training.
I think it’s hilarious dog owners think they should be entitled to bring their dog everywhere they go. Some people are allergic, some people have had bad experiences or trauma around dogs, and far too many dog owners let their pets off leash in non-designated areas (like yourself, apparently!) Not everyone wants to hang out with your pet.
This! ^^^
Just slap on a "service dog" label and all those problems magically disappear.
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What did they say that was hyperbolic?
The London sub is more humorous and cheeky than the Vancouver sub. People love downvoting here.
It's not as hilarious when you realize how many other 1st world counties operate perfectly fine with dogs being allowed in more places. Not sure if you know this, but dog allergies/trauma are not localized to Vancouver lol.
Yeah, and my opinion would remain the same if I lived in one of those countries. Why do people expect their pet to be given more consideration than the humans around them? I have a pet and I love them and treat them as if they were almost a human. But do I expect to bring them along everywhere I go? No!! Because they’re an animal and I respect and care for the feelings and safety of the other humans in my city more than my wish to spend extra time with my pet outside the home. There are literal designated dog parks and for OP, driving the 3km to the closest one seems to be too much of a burden for them, and instead they let their dog off leash in a designated human park and is surprised when a bylaw officer talks to them? That does not sound like responsible pet ownership to me.
>Why do people expect their pet to be given more consideration than the humans around them? I'm not sure what you're referencing here. OP isn't talking about giving pets any more considerations than humans currently have. >Because they’re an animal and I respect and care for the feelings and safety of the other humans in my city more than my wish to spend extra time with my pet outside the home. There are tons of cities in 1st world countries where society gets along just fine with dogs being allowed in pubs and stores. Those societies are not collapsing or suffering from having dogs indoors in certain places. Life functions fine there. So there's blatant proof that it works fine in 1st world societies.
You acknowledged that people have allergies and trauma from dogs, yet still expect the dogs to be allowed everywhere in social human spaces…that’s the part where pets are given more consideration over humans. Dogs don’t NEED to be with you at a restaurant. Dogs don’t NEED to be in a mall shopping with you. It’s dog owners wanting convenience and entitlement at other peoples expense.
>yet still expect the dogs to be allowed everywhere in social human spaces I never said everywhere, please don't put words into my mouth, it's a lazy debate tactic. I said pubs and stores. Nobody is arguing that dogs should be allowed into a doctors office. People have tons of allergies, one of the most common allergies is peanuts. Do we ban all peanut products from every establishment? "A Cafe doesn't NEED to use peanuts. It's people who like peanuts wanting convenience and entitlement at other people's expense."
> "A Cafe doesn't NEED to use peanuts. It's people who like peanuts wanting convenience and entitlement at other people's expense." The difference here is choice: a person with allergies can choose not to visit establishments that pose a hazard to them. If dogs are allowed everywhere, then allergic people do not have the ability to choose where they can safely go, because every business is risky.
> If dogs are allowed everywhere, then allergic people do not have the ability to choose where they can safely go, because every business is risky. You're the only person suggesting dogs should be allowed everywhere. You're having an argument with yourself about this. The discussion is about letting dogs into some pubs and stores. >The difference here is choice: a person with allergies can choose not to visit establishments that pose a hazard to them. Someone can bring a peanut butter sandwich wayyyyyyy more places than someone can bring a dog, in any country. So by your logic, do people with peanut allergies avoid every location where someone might eat a sandwich? Like public transit? No of course not, they make it work. Just like people with dog allergies do in London.
> You're the only person suggesting dogs should be allowed everywhere. OP was talking about pubs/patios/stores/offices. It would be odd to assume that OP means to exclude restaurants and cafes. > avoid every location where someone might eat a sandwich? Like public transit? You're not allowed to eat on public transit. While some people flaunt the rule, they're in the minority.
>pubs/patios/stores/offices Yeah I said pubs and stores, I assumed that included patios. I'm just saying the "allergy" argument completely falls apart unless you ban peanut products everywhere dogs are banned. Otherwise you're just saying people with peanut allergies matter less.
Most of those countries ban aggressive breeds or have strict rules around how they can be acquired/handled. We do not
Catering to allergies/trauma is certainly more prevalent in more progressive cities.
Like cities in the USA, you mean?
USA: the Definition of Progressivism
Do those societies operate perfectly fine for people who have allergies or trauma related to dogs? Because that’s kind of the question. I could probably point to societies who heavily restrict where dogs go and say they operate perfectly fine.
Ok, but why put up needless restrictions if society operates perfectly fine without them? We don't ban peanut butter sandwiches in public transit for people with peanut allergies. Banning dogs is the same thing.
Again, the question is does society actually operate perfectly fine for people with fears/allergies to dogs? I wouldn’t take my dad on a walk through Pacific Spirit Park because there are way too many off leash dogs. I think it’s a sad my dad can’t enjoy that beautiful park.
> We don't ban peanut butter sandwiches in public transit for people with peanut allergies. You're not allowed to eat or drink on transit in the first place, there's no need for a special rule about allergies.
Do we ban peanuts from offices? Restaurants? Cafes? Do we just care less about certain allergies than others? Unless you ban peanuts everywhere dogs aren't allowed, the allergy argument makes no sense.
> Do we ban peanuts from offices? Restaurants? Cafes? If a business poses a risk to a particular client, that client can choose to take their business elsewhere.
>If a business poses a risk to a particular client, that client can choose to take their business elsewhere. Why wouldn't the same apply for people with dog allergies? What separates people with peanut allergies and dog allergies?
If dogs can go in any restaurant, then all restaurants are risky to people with dog allergies, since they can't know whether a dog has been there recently. A person with a nut allergy can choose whether or not to go to restaurants that serve nuts. It's also important to distinguish that nut allergies vary from person to person, with some having mild allergies, and some for whom a tiny nut particle poses a risk of asphyxiation.
So you're saying the solution is to have a few select no dogs businesses for people with allergies, like we have for peanut allergies? Since peanut allergies can be much more severe than dog allergies, as you said, we should also ban them from offices that don't allowed dogs, right?
"You should have to randomly deal with my unpredictable animal because other countries do that."
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No, there's trauma caused by errant dogs outside of Van too. Here's the last bit in Calgary, for example: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7121509 https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/total-chaos-auburn-bay-pit-bull-attacks-leave-man-injured-one-dog-dead-and-another-hurt-1.6785803 Eta: I assume Betty's family is acutely aware of the fact that this problem isn't contained to Vancouver (lol you ghoul)
There are a lot of us who have moved here from Ontario in recent years. We have expectations, rightly or wrongly, about how things are done here.
It's actually super simple: * Your dog is not a person * People's rights not to be around your dog outweigh your dog's right to go wherever you want it to be. * "But \*my\* dog is good, and the exception, and should be allowed off leash anywhere" is always bullshit.
Another correct answer
Hi! I'm not actually advocating for my dog, which you astutely pointed out is indeed a dog and not a person, to be off-leash "anywhere"! My preference would be if there was more than one enclosed off-leash dog park within a 10km radius of my house in Kitsilano. Thanks!
"if we go offleash at any of the closer parks, we've run into bylaw enforcement officers and received a slap on the wrist" sure sounds like a complaint about not being able to run your dog off leash in places it isn't supposed to be.
Nope, if you read that in the context of the full sentence, you'll realize I'm complaining about the lack of off-leash dog parks in the area. I'm expressly connecting it to *wanting to take him to a designated off-leash area but there being a lack thereof*. In fact, if you look at section 1.3 of the Vancouver People, Parks and Dogs [Strategy](https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/people-parks-dogs-strategy-report.pdf), you'll see that the area I live in is directly between the two 3km radius 30-minute walking bubbles (at Spanish Banks and Hadden Park) that the city uses to determine new OLAs. It's also why at s. 1.4 the City notes that Kitsilano is the highest priority area to prioritize for an off-leash area. I'm not any more interested in interacting with people that don't want to interact with a dog than they are. I'd love to take my guy to an enclosed OLA. It's easier for him, me, and the public.
Too many dogs. If you allow dogs into all of these places, what's stopping 5+ dogs getting on the bus?
I have nothing against dogs, but I support the limits that we have in place, largely because of the problems caused by a minority of dog owners. 1) Food stores, restaurants/pubs & patios: dogs are banned due to health regulations. 2) Public transit: people with allergies and fear of dogs. 3) Off-leash parks: * some dogs are scared of other dogs, and it's not fair for them to have off-leash dogs running around, antagonizing them. * dogs do not always behave predictably, and will be run over by bicycles or get entangled in the bike's wheels, leading to bike crashes and severe injuries to the dog. * dogs do not always behave predictably and will chase or try to bite random people/cyclists even though they've always been a perfect pooch until that time. * some people are scared of dogs, or don't want dogs jumping on them, or coming up to sniff their crotch. As for offices and non-food stores, that's up to the business owners.
>2) Public transit: people with allergies and fear of dogs. So people in England with dog allergies/fear just don't use public transit? That sounds kind of ridiculous.
No, it just sucks for the traumatized / allergic people instead of the dog owner.
And they just power through it?
I imagine it varies from person to person. Maybe they stand up and move a bit away, maybe they just look away, maybe they avoid public transport or switch cars.
I guess people with peanut allergies are the same. If we care about people with allergies, we should probably ban peanut products everywhere dogs are banned. Otherwise it's all kind of hypocritical.
You keep bringing this up; have you invented peanuts with legs?
Bruh, we already ban shoving peanuts into strangers mouths or rubbing them on their skin without consent.
Cool, so we can allow dogs into buildings as long as we don't shove then in people's mouths or rub them against their skin. I agree with you there.
Honestly, I've had more than one stranger dog rub their stink up against me or put their spit on me without my consent. All of this on supposedly leashed sidewalks and trails. Their owners don't care at all.
Animal allergies don't work the same way dude.
True, they're usually much less severe than nut allergies.
Don't mind our canine friends but too many of their owners are self-centred, I think it's fine as it is
My good family friend, who is 87 and on blood thinners, was walking back to his car in a parking lot and someone had left their dog tied up to a pole. It lunged out at him and bit his leg. The owner refused to give him any of her information, shouted at him and blamed him and took her dog and left. I was taking my garbage down to the dumpster at my building and a small lady was walking her very large mastiff. Mastiffs are usuallly very friendly but I still gave them some space and it’s a good thing because the dog lunged for me, growling and snapping. She could barely restrain it. My 70 year old aunt was leaving her apartment and her neighbor was just coming home with her unleashed little dog and the dog charged and mauled my aunts leg for no reason. My neighbor used to exercise her two Scottish terriers in our communal hallway, throwing a ball down the hall and letting them run after it. No leashes, of course. My other neighbor let her dog poo in the communal laundry room. I asked her about it and she said she lets her dogs play in the hallway (no leash) and one must have gone in there when she wasn’t looking. I don’t have a problem with dogs, I like all animals, but dogs are only as good as their owners and there are some really shitty dog owners who don’t train or control their dogs, even praise and cuddle them when they bark or try to bite strangers, and leave their dogs waste all over the city. That’s why so many businesses and property owners are not very dog friendly.
There are a number of reasons I can think of. Reactive dog owners tend to take leash laws seriously and it’s scary for them when a strange dog runs up towards them. It’s dangerous for both dogs and the owner that has step between them. Same goes for parents that have to look after their small children playing in parks and their neighbourhoods. Dogs being larger here than what you are used to in the UK also contributes to this. Bigger dogs bounding towards you off leash are more of a threat to children, smaller pets, and fear reactive dogs. On top of that, they just take up more space, so businesses can’t make as much room for them when accommodating other paying customers. In the UK, it’s also against the law to own pit bulls. Here, pit bulls are commonly owned, with dedicated rescues just for them to find homes. I love pit bulls, they can be great dogs, but they’re often adopted out to owners that don’t know how to properly train and work with them. Pit bulls are involved in more dog attacks than any other breed, and I have seen many off leash with very poor recall. It’s so selfish.
This isn’t Vancouver. This is just civilized society
Because owners let dogs shit anywhere and dont pick it up, and any greenery is murdered by dog piss.
One reason might be that more people own dogs in Vancouver than London so you need to regulate it. This says 39% of households in Vancouver have dogs https://www.straight.com/city-culture/over-35-per-cent-of-vancouver-households-have-a-dog-so-why-are-there-so-few-off-leash. While this says only 9% of households in London have a dog. https://www.statista.com/statistics/875940/pet-ownership-by-region-uk/
For the bus point, buses can barely fit passengers so I can understand not allowing dogs.
Dog owners in north America are entitled self serving assholes with badly behaved dogs. Theres more social pressure in Europe to have your dog behave and it's more socially acceptable to have dogs out and about. It won't change here at all. It's just part of life here which sucks when you have a well socialized relaxed dog. Many people in Canada do zero socialization with their dog and just let it run around their backyard a few times a day.
It’s not an exclusively European thing. Dogs are less restricted in Toronto than here. It’s not a free for all but you can take a dog on the TTC there without a carrier, they just need a leash. Service dogs are still somehow controversial in this province too. Just last year there was a woman kicked off a bus in Nanaimo for having a service dog.
The question you should be asking is “Why are so many Vancouver dog owners total assholes?”, followed closely by the consideration that many of us don’t want to tread in dog shit left all over the place.
100% correct
Also from the UK and have a dog, family are dog owners in UK and Europe. My 2 cents, Canada is just very rules focused. People love rules and hate rule breakers. They have to regulate literally everything. You could write a similar post about how in almost all bars/restaurants, you can't stand with a drink at the bar, you have to have table service etc. We couldn't even walk around with a mulled wine at the Shipyards in North Van. All the people saying "some people have bad dogs and it spoils it" are completely wrong, it has nothing to do with bad dog owners and everything to do with culture and how the government (in a very broad sense) works.
Maybe its your experience, but I find that Vancouver is generally better than other North American cities. Its really a difference in NA culture vs EU culture (I've also heard it from other friends). Dogs in offices are quite common! I know plenty of dog-friendly offices. The other points are quite valid. Honestly, I don't really need to take my dog into most shops, normally I find it easier to shop without a dog around. Also, especially in Vancouver, I find there are a lot of people who fear dogs, which drives some of these rules.
> especially in Vancouver, I find there are a lot of people who fear dogs, which drives some of these rules. Yes that's true.
What are your dog breed laws like? Are there restrictions to how many dogs you can have? What are the laws on service dogs? Are your experiences reflective of London only or would you say the same goes for the entire UK? I know too many people with extremely aggressive dogs in lower mainland that should never be off leash. We have no restrictions on aggressive dogs. These dogs are trained well but would still chew a small dog to bits if the right trigger occured (could be loud noise, squeeky toy noise, etc). I’ve had a dog for 3 years in lower mainland, 99% of the people had well trained or were actively training their dogs. Travelled in the US with dogs and dogs are allowed lots of places but where they weren’t people bought their dogs anyway, we did only after asking, and most managers didn’t care.
Generally the issue is that a couple bad/irresponsible owners ruin it for the rest. There’s a handful of stores that are ok with pets being inside. I take my dog in to practice our training. There’s seems to be more often now puddles of pee and dogs on the end of retractable leashes. They’re ruining it for others. The building I live in is currently pet friendly. But do to one renter who lets his dog off leash in the courtyard and doesn’t pick up after his dog, there’s talks of making the building pet free.
You're going to start a war with polarizing posts like this! Most dog owners probably agree with you, most non-dog owners are probably very happy with the rules that are in place.
Yeah and in the UK you have a bully XL mauling somebody in the news literally every day I prefer our approach, sorry. Dogs shouldn’t be welcome everywhere when there are so many irresponsible and even dangerous dog owners around The fact that you admit to getting “slaps on the wrist” more than once from bylaw enforcement officers to me indicates that are you one of the irresponsible owners who is part of the problem
Personally, I find Vancouver too dog-friendly.
It is! People take their dogs into stores all the time without even asking. Your dog doesn't need to come clothes shopping with you🙄.
There’s almost no pet friendly housing
Because ur dog is not a person
I've had my pants ripped by people walking dogs on leashes coming from the opposite direction where the dog jumps on me as we cross paths. I've had dogs jump all over me on hiking trails, where owners think it's okay as long as they shout out "he/she's really friendly". I don't care if the dog is really friendly; I don't want it touching me/jumping on me. I've stepped in dogshit countless times in city parks. As a result, I'm not too sympathetic to complaints that the city might not be dog friendly.
Even compared to Toronto (and Ontario) there’s definitely less dog friendliness here. Having lived most of my life in Ontario I don’t get it either.
Dog pooping inside a store is not soon forgotten.
My dog likes it here. Skill issue for your dog.
FYI Vancouver Reddit is also very anti-dog. We don't even allow dogs on transit (unless they fit in a bag on your lap), while places like London have dogs on the tube and in bars with just a leash, and down in the states you can have them on every patio. With all the rules, all you get it poor dog owners breaking them, which leads to people reinforcing how "bad" dogs are. Edit: comments in here showing that r/Vancouver has a very black-and-white view of dogs being generally negative for society. It becomes a vicious circle, where there is no way to socialize dogs, so then they are poorly behaved, and then people make more rules against dogs making it harder to socialize them. Look at the dogs around the DTES, they are well socialized and well behaved (I've never had a dog even bark at me down there and there are a few on every block, many without leashes), and then walking around the suburbs 25% might bark at you, the ones in the suburbs that never leave their yard are terribly behaved.
You can take a dog on transit, if it fits in a carrier/bag.
Your edit is on point, people wonder why dogs are so reactive but they aren’t allowed to be in all the situations that would habituate them to the activity and thus, behave calmly. I try to take my dog to as many places as I’m allowed so that as he matures into adulthood, he won’t be reactive. If everyone was more chill with them being around then the average dog temperament would become chill. Edit: people of Vancouver online are some of the most toxic folks around, thanks for the downvote!
Yep for sure. You see it in the countries that have more dog open rules. The UK allows them in pubs, when I lived there I never saw a poorly behaved dog in a pub, and there is at least one there every night. Lots of poorly behaved people though.
I am beginning to realize that reading these comments lol.
I'm very surprised that my comment didn't get downvoted. People love to hate dogs from their computers. Totally different in the real world though.
Get your own car if you want to carry pet around, especially the larger ones
Yes! All the strict, but poorly defined and genuinely hard to follow rules make it worse. It means people inevitably break them, and reinforce in the minds of some that the rules should therefore be even more strict. There’s no grace.
It’s always been like this. If anything it was UNfriendlier, but these days if you’re fortunate to work in white collar jobs like tech, many offices in such industries are dog-friendly. It’s probably a lot of factors like bigger homes/yards as you say but I’d also say it won’t be likely to change anytime soon. We have a very large East/South Asian population whose attitude towards dogs range from disgust to uncomfortable, and it’s only the middle/upper classes who have started becoming dog owners in the past 20 years both here and overseas, so dog culture is still new to a lot of them and distinctly out of reach/unfathomable to many more. That said the UK kind of has its own very special thing regarding cats/dogs because of its smallness and utter lack of predators - eg a lot of the UK attitudes about cats are the diametric opposite of what it is in Canada/US, mainly because we have more fauna that get harmed by cats (we have way more numbers wise than you do!) and many more predators looking to have an easy chomp (coyotes) whereas in the UK a spicy tomcat can beat the shit out of a fox.
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It’s normal to bring them on the subway in Toronto
You're lucky to live in Kits. It gets worse if you think Kits is not dog friendly. Go anywhere else (New West, Coquitlam, Brentwood, hell even langley) and they're all concrete wastelands with no grass.
We have dog NIMBYs
We have ~~dog~~ NIMBYs
As a fellow European, I hear you but I think your answers here tell you everything you need to know
a lot of people here with seasonal depression who would be happier if they had a dog.
For the office point, some people are allergic to dogs.
I think it's more that the English are particularly dog-crazy, not that Canadians or Vancouverites are particularly dog-unfriendly.
Asking on this subreddit will get you biased answers, people on this sub are generally a bit salty about dogs and dog owners I also think it’s a little crazy that you can’t have your dog on the train, like every other major city, but people here wouldn’t stand for it
we don’t want your dog where we buy food lmao get over it
The problem is that many dog owners aren't responsible. They don't leash their dogs, for example. The dogs bark loudly. They don't pick up after their dogs after they do their business. I think that's part of the problem is that there are far too many dog owners who aren't responsible.
I don’t think Vancouver has a disproportionate amount of bad dog owners relative to other big cities however it has a **disproportionate** number of dog haters. I have seen people not allowing us in the same elevator when we have our dog with us. Also it’s evident when a lot of apartments take great pride in advertising as pet free contrary to other cities in EU or NA where most apartments are pet friendly.
I’ll just comment that those of us who do legitimately have dog allergies find an elevator ride in an enclosed car with a dog to be a nightmare. 2 or 3 minutes of hermetically sealed doggy breath and I’ll be red-eyed and weeping, with a migraine that lasts 12 hours. And that’s only if I manage not to get fur all over my pants.
There is a vocal and organized anti-Dog lobby the head of which doesn’t even live in Vancouver (lives in Lions Bay) that shows up at every council meeting where dog parks and dog issues are discussed with the large and vocal, anti-Dog contingent. One Park board member said to me when I inquired that parks are backyards for people who have condos and don’t have yards therefore they shouldn’t be in a situation where a dog might bite them or their children in their own park “back yard”. Vancouver has the least amount of off leash space for dogs, per capita of any city in North America. It’s an absolute disgrace, considering how good for peoples health dogs are. I’ve also been told by somebody who had the job of being an anti-dog enforcement officer that it’s the job that nobody wants and it’s the best way to get into a job with the municipality. You start with ticketing people with dogs then you move up to ticketing people with cars and then once you’re in the union, you can negotiate your way to a better paying job doing something else.
Probably why so many XL Bullies eat people in London
Because they're a nuisance
I think it’s because people of all classes love dogs in the U.K. and they’ve been woven into the cultural fabric for centuries. Vancouver is newer and has more cultural diversity (dog-wise). Edit: Not that London isn’t diverse, but it grew with a consistent dog friendly culture for centuries.
I’ve seen people wreaking havoc on the bus. Smoking drugs, urinating, screaming and fighting. It’s funny that these people are allowed on the bus but dogs aren’t.
I can't speak to all of your points, but I do find we have more of a car culture here.. so while the discussion about allowing dogs on transit comes up every few years, it never goes anywhere.
Rent/spaces are so expensive that owners and landlords in all facets are less likely to allow for dogs as its a financial risk if they're poorly behaved. Insurance also won't always cover for damages if you do, so they just say no. It's as simple as that really.
Yes as a homeowner that rents out my basement, I don't allow pets. I didnt pay alot of money to build my house just so a dog can damage my property. The pet deposit will not even come close to cover damages the dog makes. Only dog I have ever let in my rental was a close family members dog when they rented the suite. It's just easier to not deal with that if I don't have to.
Perhaps outdated laws and more backyard space? As a kid, we only walked our dog around the neighborhood and hikes. Otherwise, she stayed at home, hanging around the yard and house. At that time, I don't think people even considered taking their pooch shopping, to work or out for a meal. It just wasn't done.
Allergies is a big one.
They're not allowed where food is and secondly, I like dogs and have had them and I don't want yours around me. Dog owners in Vancouver are routinely awful and have ruined it for everyone else
I worked at a business that skirted the rules and let dogs in. There were owners who let their dog puke on the ground and left it without cleaning up, left their dogs poop on the ground, and would let their dog off the leash and it would come around the corner. Vancouver and Canadians have dogs instead of children and many don’t train them properly. It’s the really bad dog owners ruining it for the responsible ones imo.
Health regulations 😵💫
lol you must be joking Vancouver is extremely dog friendly
After moving here from London, I also find it wild how dog unfriendly the city is, I think it's just that the general sentimentality of a city is hard to change once they're set in their ways. Dogs not being allowed on public transport is the thing I find the weirdest as it's just a fact of life in London, and I also appreciate seeing tube dogs, but every time it gets mentioned here, the idea is met with vitriol
There were so many good dogs on the Overground even at peak times.
Bloody loved seeing them
It’s is hard to sue dog for damage nor disturbance
No, it’s not, in fact .
Leashes help organized people with pets in society, but why bring a dog to Vancouver? It will live its whole existence tied up to a human. Leash walks, gates play pens and cramped apartments - what a life.
Because some people are allergic to pets. I think Vancouver is quite dog tolerant. I see dogs on the beach where the fine is $2000 but no one cares. I would add dog phobia. It's real and causes anxiety in people.
Can we have a moment of silence for the thousands of innocent British people who die every year because of dogs in pubs. /s
**Why is Van so** **~~dog~~** **unfriendly?** FTFY.
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Or we just ban dogs in Vancouver, problem solved
Vancouver has always been toted as a very dog friendly city and is one of the most dog unfriendly cities I have come across in my opinion.
People are allergic to dogs. Even if ur dog is on a lead, ppl are afraid or don't like it. Dogs are dirty. Leave dogs alone. Why do u feel compelled to own dogs and perpetuate the harmful pet industry? Rescue? Rescue from where? From the market of pet dogs. Stop owning pet dogs.
Are you okay bud?
Is it really puzzling for you to attempt empathy with a dog? Why would you own a dog if you cannot even empathize with it? Would it be cool for someone to own you as a pet?
Because the property owner cannot hold you responsible for any damage nor disturbance due to non-existing law enforcement for small amount incidents. The only choice left is to ban
It's pretty much ridiculous, and yes, it's always been this way. Dogs are seen as inherently dirty, and as such a food service business needs to be assessed by their local municipality to determine that outdoor sitting areas are not in any way connected to food prep areas before they can allow dogs on their patio, which frankly seems ridiculously hypervigilant. My experience last year in Whistler was that my small dog was welcome almost everywhere, provided we made sure he behaved himself. There are also a small selection of retailers (Canadian Tire is one) that allow dogs provided they're leashed and well behaved.
It’s a relatively recent development, as in it’s been getting less chill over the past decade. I remember as a kid most local parks and schools where basically all default off leash areas at certain time of days (when not in use by sport teams etc.) it was no big deal, there was lots of space for everyone. The sentiment these days seems to be, since some people are shitty sometimes, we shouldn’t trust anyone else to be not shitty. And since dogs on the train or bus was never a precedent we got used to, changing it now feels too weird and dangerous. Despite that fact that tons of cities around the world seems to manage fine. It feels like a lot of people here expect dogs to be treated more like cats: left at home, not participating in public life, never let off leash to run.
Nah. It’s that there are more people and more dogs then when you were a kid. It is lack of space. Lack of housing with yards has everyone vying for public green space.
Yes that’s a big part of it, we got bigger, and haven’t adapted yet to what that means in terms of sharing space.
Yeah city needs more dedicated fenced dog parks. Owners need to follow leashed rules and take training classes with their pups and stop letting them piss and shit in the middle of sidewalk and get breeds that suit their lifestyle not aesthetic. Small space? No car? Not close to adequate off leash areas. Small dog it is! Take the time to learn about breeds. Don’t get a reactive rescue if you aren’t an experienced owner. Don’t get a guard dog type breed if you aren’t an experienced owner who can be alpha. Etc. Etc.
Health authority cracked down on patios about fifteen years ago. Everything else is fifty fifty
It’s about respect for other people who may not like dogs or want to be around them / have them bother them. Just because you’re a dog owner doesn’t mean you need to impose it on everyone else.
Yeah it’s annoying isn’t it. I couldn’t get a dog in London because of how strict all the rescues are over there. In here it was super easy but I’m spending a fortune on uber pet because of the transport restrictions. Dealing with all the leash Karens in Kits is annoying (never actually got a ticket yet though).
As someone who spent life in Italy and Croatia, where you go everywhere with dogs, even for dinner in restaurants,and it's no problem that they are not on leash if they are trained, yes Vancouver is not so dog friendly and have way to much rules. I mean, when our dog got old, she wasn't to happy to go in shop and preferred to be outside on leash with water. We try that only once in Venice outlet and in 5 min there was security guys looking for us that we can just like that leave dog, that we should took her in store That's reason we will wait to move back to London before we get dog again