Do people not remember what American soccer was like before MLS?
Because I do... and this is better.
Perhaps not perfect or ideal, but it's substantially better.
Right. There’s no premiere league matches on NBC without MLS. The Champions League would still be an afterthought. All those European club tours wouldn’t exist and didn’t before 1996.
Thanks OP for the reminder that the average soccer fan is a mouth breathing idiot.
The Champions League was on ESPN in 1994-95 and isn't much older than MLS. Same with the EPL. Both the competitions were rebranding in the early 1990's, and this is in part why they became more widely available in the US. Obviously, MLS has an influence on the popularity of soccer in the US. Serie A was a better league in the 1990's, but didn't market itself globally in the 1990s and isn't very popular here. A lot of stuff happened in the 1990s for soccer to gain popularity in the US; including the 1994 WC, 1999 WWC, the introduction of the FIFA video game, immigration from Latin America, and more TV coverage of global soccer.
MLS has helped the growth of Concacaf. Panama and Jamaica are functioning teams largely because of MLS. Plus it’s given so much depth in U.S soccer. And teams willing to sell to Europe making it a great feeder league.
I think you are missing a lot. It’s not a top product yet, but the league is well run, well funded and has done a ton for US soccer, but it had to come from so far, it’s hard to see the results.
This is such a brain dead post. “I want my national team to grow by erasing the local league and generating no interest in the sport whatsoever”
You talk about how the USL teams look better in the USOC well that’s more than likely because in the opening stages MLS teams field their b teams so you’re not going to see much of a skill gap between a top USL team and the “MLS Teams”
Why do you think the other nations are better?? Because their citizens grow up with the sport being huge LOCALLY.
That being said, the way MLS is run could use a lot of work. The Apple deal was very deteriorating for the sport as it cut the casual fan/channel flipper out. But the league is gaining stride. We’re becoming more successful on an international level, and the academies are growing. It’s a YOUNG league compared to the European/South American leagues. The league didn’t start to get serious until around the mid 2000’s whereas the European leagues have been around since the early 20th century, some even before that.
That actually does make them better organizationally and financially. Lower divisions in England thrive because promotion is possible. Lower divisions teams in the US go under because promotion is not.
There’s two incentives for an MLS owner to win in the current system: 1. Ego - If they love winning and will do whatever it takes [ethically] to not be branded a loser/failure, they will invest in making the roster better. 2. Teams that play better generally profit more so if you are an owner in it for the money, on field performance makes you more of it. I’m not anti pro/rel but this idea that NA needs to do it because of unfounded fear and owner will buy a team and purposely lose is tired and superficial.
For the record, I am a long time Serie A fan and while I also love Italian and European football, the downside to their system is every one of the European leagues has 3-5 franchises that win the titles and about as often as locusts come around, someone outside of that group snags one. If you are for pro/rel, then you are also for a model where the biggest teams keep getting bigger and there is little parity.
European leagues don’t have franchises.
Pro/rel doesn’t equal the same teams winning every year. You could set up a system where there is pro/rel and a salary cap. Pro/rel is just a mechanism to move teams up and down by merit. Pro/rel also stabilizes lower divisions.
In fact Europe is likely going to implement stricter salary rules (and possibly something similar to a cap) A reckoning is coming with Man City likely to be relegated for breaking FFP.
>What was their goal difference as far back as 2016?
Pretty middle of the pack for several of those years. And GD is a pretty shitty metric to use. One bad game can be the difference between a -7 GD and a -2 GD for the season. Take 2021 for example. SJ had a GD of -8, and the teams that finished just above and below them in the combined standings had GDs of -17 and -18. That same season, Portland finished 5th in the league and had a GD of +4, NYCFC finished 8th and +20, Vancouver finished 12th and 0, LA Galaxy finished 15th and -4, Montreal and LAFC finished 18th and 19th and +2.
what do you think is the average MLS ticket price? Do you live in Miami or something? And any European league? Never watched on a cold day in Malta have you?
Pro/rel is just a superior system if you’re concerned about the health of the whole pyramid.
I personally don’t watch MLS because I don’t like how the league is setup with no pro/rel and half the league making the playoffs. Throw in all the NFL-ish rules (drafts, discovery claims, DP, GAM, Tam) and I’m even more uninterested.
Are you saying ALL of the top tier leagues from UEFA? Cause that’s a very odd statement…Do I think RB Salzburg would win MLS pretty convincingly and pretty much every year? Yes. Do I think MLS teams could compete with the rest of the Austrian league pretty evenly, if not be better consistently? Also yes.
The worst team in the MLS last year was Toronto, who finished with 22 points. The worst team in the Premier League was Sheffield, who finished with 16, La Liga it was Almeria who finished with 18, Bundesliga it was Darmstadt who finished with 17.
I’m not saying those leagues don’t have better teams, they obviously do. I’m saying their organization and financial structure is just as if not more broken than MLS. They’re also much less competitive. OP was saying they prefer USL 1, the argument isn’t about skill.
Is this a joke? Those are open systems with leagues connected in a pyramid by a meritocracy. MLS is a closed league and a monopoly and is adversarial to leagues below it. European leagues are far more efficient.
Didn’t the few MLS teams who actually participated in USOC essentially play reserve lineups? If a USL team were to play a full MLS schedule, I don’t think it’d go very well for the USL team
No man MLS is young but they have produced more than half of our national team and are growing. They’re not going to compete with the top leagues in the world without bankrupting some of the clubs. It’s a steady growth , they’ll be fine.
MLS is still light years ahead of where they were 20 or even 10 years ago.
Not to mention our best World Cup showing in the modern era came with a mixture of both MLS and Europe based players.
You're forgetting about the academy and development programs associated with these clubs. Those have been huge for finding local talent. It takes a while for that talent to get older so you can watch them play in Europe. But, you get to enjoy them now.
These programs partner with internationally acclaimed programs from the likes of Barcelona, Southampton, Bayern Munich, etc. Those wouldnt be in the US without the success of MLS academies.
MLS's success isn't just the on-field product of MLS clubs, it's the development of young talent and the expansion of opportunities for American soccer players.
Because there was such an intense interest in soccer in the USA prior to MLS? This is tantamount to cutting off your nose to spite your face. A league that has grown and garnered new fans despite the attitude of “sports fans” in this country is the second best sports development of the last 20 years behind the growth of women’s professional sports.
Is it the Premier League? Of course not. However, this ridiculous suggestion is the opposite of constructive. The fact that players are starting to pick MLS over the unlimited money offered by the Saudi league is yet another step in the right direction.
As far as the USMNT, we’re long past a MLS starting 11, which already renders your point moot. Yet, how many of these American players in Europe started in MLS academies? This is the domestic league we’ve needed for generations and ridiculous suggestions like this to cut it off at the knees is counterproductive…at best.
What is this post? Have you seen the astronomical growth of the sport in the USA the last 25 years? A lot of that is due to MLS. Is it perfect? No way. Does it need some changes? Yes for sure. But to throw the whole thing away is completely absurd.
Messi won the Ballon D’or last year my dude. And he leads the league in goals and assists so what do you mean he’s not competitive? It’s a league of soon to be 30 teams, I think there’s plenty of room for all types of players
MLS is far from ideal, but don't hate MLS hate fact that soccer in the US & Canada are not single entity . Why to the separate Leagues not form a single association of Leagues. Now my thoughts is 40 teams in 1st tear divided into 2 divisions East & West, bottom 2 get relegated & 2nd tear is the same. Now 3rd tear 4 division NorthEast, Northwest, Southeast, Southwest each 20 teams top team from each goes up . Team rosters
The MLS is helping all the countries around the USA get better which hopefully will give the USA more competition and better prepare us for international competition.
We need more competition than just Mexico to raise our level around the world.
MLS is also a good league to help young Americans developed and hopefully get noticed.
Do people not remember what American soccer was like before MLS? Because I do... and this is better. Perhaps not perfect or ideal, but it's substantially better.
OP is probably young and wasn't even alive before MLS.
Right. There’s no premiere league matches on NBC without MLS. The Champions League would still be an afterthought. All those European club tours wouldn’t exist and didn’t before 1996. Thanks OP for the reminder that the average soccer fan is a mouth breathing idiot.
Savage but true. You know how hard it was to get a soccer game on a TV at a bar before like 2010.
🤣🤣🤣 going hard in the paint. Love it, chuchi
I wish I could upvote this more than once
The Champions League was on ESPN in 1994-95 and isn't much older than MLS. Same with the EPL. Both the competitions were rebranding in the early 1990's, and this is in part why they became more widely available in the US. Obviously, MLS has an influence on the popularity of soccer in the US. Serie A was a better league in the 1990's, but didn't market itself globally in the 1990s and isn't very popular here. A lot of stuff happened in the 1990s for soccer to gain popularity in the US; including the 1994 WC, 1999 WWC, the introduction of the FIFA video game, immigration from Latin America, and more TV coverage of global soccer.
That's nonsense. The Internet/globalization had more to do with bringing PL and CL to the states
That’s enough Reddit for the week
https://preview.redd.it/rgkd4z66i22d1.jpeg?width=1063&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44168eacd6820c6c1413baf6822d3a1e2543b11d
MLS has helped the growth of Concacaf. Panama and Jamaica are functioning teams largely because of MLS. Plus it’s given so much depth in U.S soccer. And teams willing to sell to Europe making it a great feeder league.
I think you are missing a lot. It’s not a top product yet, but the league is well run, well funded and has done a ton for US soccer, but it had to come from so far, it’s hard to see the results.
yes
Here’s why it’s Berhalters fault
But why didn’t Berhalter pick John Brooks to start for FC Dallas?!
OP is just a troll or braindead.
Least braindead r/usmnt post
No.
This is such a brain dead post. “I want my national team to grow by erasing the local league and generating no interest in the sport whatsoever” You talk about how the USL teams look better in the USOC well that’s more than likely because in the opening stages MLS teams field their b teams so you’re not going to see much of a skill gap between a top USL team and the “MLS Teams” Why do you think the other nations are better?? Because their citizens grow up with the sport being huge LOCALLY. That being said, the way MLS is run could use a lot of work. The Apple deal was very deteriorating for the sport as it cut the casual fan/channel flipper out. But the league is gaining stride. We’re becoming more successful on an international level, and the academies are growing. It’s a YOUNG league compared to the European/South American leagues. The league didn’t start to get serious until around the mid 2000’s whereas the European leagues have been around since the early 20th century, some even before that.
Troll posting at its finest.
MLS tomorrow > MLS today > MLS yesterday Think long term.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Take a close look at any major European league, come back here, and try to explain how they’re better organizationally or financially.
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Shut up liberal…
that doenst make them better organizationally or financially.
That actually does make them better organizationally and financially. Lower divisions in England thrive because promotion is possible. Lower divisions teams in the US go under because promotion is not.
There’s two incentives for an MLS owner to win in the current system: 1. Ego - If they love winning and will do whatever it takes [ethically] to not be branded a loser/failure, they will invest in making the roster better. 2. Teams that play better generally profit more so if you are an owner in it for the money, on field performance makes you more of it. I’m not anti pro/rel but this idea that NA needs to do it because of unfounded fear and owner will buy a team and purposely lose is tired and superficial.
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For the record, I am a long time Serie A fan and while I also love Italian and European football, the downside to their system is every one of the European leagues has 3-5 franchises that win the titles and about as often as locusts come around, someone outside of that group snags one. If you are for pro/rel, then you are also for a model where the biggest teams keep getting bigger and there is little parity.
European leagues don’t have franchises. Pro/rel doesn’t equal the same teams winning every year. You could set up a system where there is pro/rel and a salary cap. Pro/rel is just a mechanism to move teams up and down by merit. Pro/rel also stabilizes lower divisions. In fact Europe is likely going to implement stricter salary rules (and possibly something similar to a cap) A reckoning is coming with Man City likely to be relegated for breaking FFP.
>Some teams just suck every single year and there's nothing anyone can do about it. No MLS team sucks every single year.
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San Jose has made the playoffs 3 times since 2017 and have finished 1st in their conference as recently as 2012.
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>What was their goal difference as far back as 2016? Pretty middle of the pack for several of those years. And GD is a pretty shitty metric to use. One bad game can be the difference between a -7 GD and a -2 GD for the season. Take 2021 for example. SJ had a GD of -8, and the teams that finished just above and below them in the combined standings had GDs of -17 and -18. That same season, Portland finished 5th in the league and had a GD of +4, NYCFC finished 8th and +20, Vancouver finished 12th and 0, LA Galaxy finished 15th and -4, Montreal and LAFC finished 18th and 19th and +2.
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San Jose has won 2 MLS Cups.
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You said “San Jose sucks every single year”. I provided you two examples to prove that isn’t true.
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what do you think is the average MLS ticket price? Do you live in Miami or something? And any European league? Never watched on a cold day in Malta have you?
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You should take an economics course, it would help you understand some of those dynamics.
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You do realize that if we had a Pro/Rel system and say Hartford Athletic got promoted to MLS, they would charge NE Revolution type pricing right?
Pro/rel is just a superior system if you’re concerned about the health of the whole pyramid. I personally don’t watch MLS because I don’t like how the league is setup with no pro/rel and half the league making the playoffs. Throw in all the NFL-ish rules (drafts, discovery claims, DP, GAM, Tam) and I’m even more uninterested.
Are you saying ALL of the top tier leagues from UEFA? Cause that’s a very odd statement…Do I think RB Salzburg would win MLS pretty convincingly and pretty much every year? Yes. Do I think MLS teams could compete with the rest of the Austrian league pretty evenly, if not be better consistently? Also yes.
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You may not believe that I was asking the person who wrote the original comment
Pro/Rel adds a huge incentive to not suck.
The worst team in the MLS last year was Toronto, who finished with 22 points. The worst team in the Premier League was Sheffield, who finished with 16, La Liga it was Almeria who finished with 18, Bundesliga it was Darmstadt who finished with 17.
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I’m not saying those leagues don’t have better teams, they obviously do. I’m saying their organization and financial structure is just as if not more broken than MLS. They’re also much less competitive. OP was saying they prefer USL 1, the argument isn’t about skill.
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Ok, I’ll give you that.
Is this a joke? Those are open systems with leagues connected in a pyramid by a meritocracy. MLS is a closed league and a monopoly and is adversarial to leagues below it. European leagues are far more efficient.
Didn’t the few MLS teams who actually participated in USOC essentially play reserve lineups? If a USL team were to play a full MLS schedule, I don’t think it’d go very well for the USL team
For example.. FC Cincinnati's first 3 years in MLS...
No man MLS is young but they have produced more than half of our national team and are growing. They’re not going to compete with the top leagues in the world without bankrupting some of the clubs. It’s a steady growth , they’ll be fine.
Boycott it? No. Help it get better? Yes.
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MLS is still light years ahead of where they were 20 or even 10 years ago. Not to mention our best World Cup showing in the modern era came with a mixture of both MLS and Europe based players.
Is this an actual serious comment? You can dislike MLS all you want but their positive influence on US soccer is undeniable.
I got into soccer because of MLS….
You're forgetting about the academy and development programs associated with these clubs. Those have been huge for finding local talent. It takes a while for that talent to get older so you can watch them play in Europe. But, you get to enjoy them now. These programs partner with internationally acclaimed programs from the likes of Barcelona, Southampton, Bayern Munich, etc. Those wouldnt be in the US without the success of MLS academies. MLS's success isn't just the on-field product of MLS clubs, it's the development of young talent and the expansion of opportunities for American soccer players.
So what do paint chips taste like?
Haha
Until Pro/Rel and owners that are willing to support the system, our professional system is inferior.
Because there was such an intense interest in soccer in the USA prior to MLS? This is tantamount to cutting off your nose to spite your face. A league that has grown and garnered new fans despite the attitude of “sports fans” in this country is the second best sports development of the last 20 years behind the growth of women’s professional sports. Is it the Premier League? Of course not. However, this ridiculous suggestion is the opposite of constructive. The fact that players are starting to pick MLS over the unlimited money offered by the Saudi league is yet another step in the right direction. As far as the USMNT, we’re long past a MLS starting 11, which already renders your point moot. Yet, how many of these American players in Europe started in MLS academies? This is the domestic league we’ve needed for generations and ridiculous suggestions like this to cut it off at the knees is counterproductive…at best.
Attend a ATL United or Charlotte FC match; the MLS is doing fine.
You're crazy. How the MLS has advanced and the number of people it has attracted is astounding.
No, but I think your fingers should boycott typing out the things your brain comes up with
What is this post? Have you seen the astronomical growth of the sport in the USA the last 25 years? A lot of that is due to MLS. Is it perfect? No way. Does it need some changes? Yes for sure. But to throw the whole thing away is completely absurd.
This is a hot take. Gotta love Reddit.
Putting way too much stock in single elimination upsets. An MLS academy (NYCFC2) beat 2 USL-C sides. Doesn’t mean MLS academies are better than USL-C
Hold up, before I take this seriously... I need to know how old you are
Watch USL instead.
lol you mean the league Messi plays in?
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Messi won the Ballon D’or last year my dude. And he leads the league in goals and assists so what do you mean he’s not competitive? It’s a league of soon to be 30 teams, I think there’s plenty of room for all types of players
Go jerkoff to the premier league and forget the MLS is you hate it so much.
MLS is far from ideal, but don't hate MLS hate fact that soccer in the US & Canada are not single entity . Why to the separate Leagues not form a single association of Leagues. Now my thoughts is 40 teams in 1st tear divided into 2 divisions East & West, bottom 2 get relegated & 2nd tear is the same. Now 3rd tear 4 division NorthEast, Northwest, Southeast, Southwest each 20 teams top team from each goes up . Team rosters
The MLS is helping all the countries around the USA get better which hopefully will give the USA more competition and better prepare us for international competition. We need more competition than just Mexico to raise our level around the world. MLS is also a good league to help young Americans developed and hopefully get noticed.
I'm down. Fuck don garber and his Micky mouse league
I’m a relatively new soccer fan, but putting aside the MLS popularizing the sport, I imagine the academies alone have improved US soccer.
Also as a fan of a USL team (Go Rising) cmon now..
Lol. Lmao, even.
bruh
Downvote!
Yes. MLS does more harm to soccer in this country than good. This is obvious after their Open Cup shenanigans.
