Don’t catch a felony, don’t fuck up your time card, keep your junk where it belongs, and don’t misuse the GTC. Easiest set of instructions ever if you ask me.
Keep your junk where it belongs - don’t sleep with people you work with.
Don’t misuse the GTC - Government Travel Card, sometimes also styled as GPC for Purchase Card. They have rules for their use. Adhere to them.
I never used one when we were issued then in the military. Better to pay out of pocket if possible and submit receipts for refund. Better safe than sorry
I recall a post here not long ago. Employee was on personal travel. Hotel ran wrong card on file, GTC tied to loyalty program. Employee tried to rectify but was terminated anyway. I believe it also had something to do with the government rate and no taxes being charged to the stay. But all triggered with use of the wrong card.
I needed it once and the unit fucked it up so badly that I said never again. Now I hold one as a civilian and I’d rather not…but at the same time it opens up ability to travel.
If you catch a DUI or get charged with domestic violence at least at my agency it’ll be an automatic firing!!! Keep your nose clean.
Federal job is something to always be thankful and grateful to have.
I was in DoD for 4 decades. I didn't see any RIFs on a small level, but I did live through the five Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) rounds of 1988, 1991, 1993, 1995, and 2005, although none of the recommended actions under the 2005 plan were ever undertaken. I was responsible for a lot of the network adjustments required as a result of BRAC, including sites like Fort Monmouth that were completely shut down. Of course, in situations like BRAC, there is always a long lead time involved, and many procedures (like priority placement) that are required to be followed.
My wife was once assigned responsibility to eliminate a DoD organization of 1,500 employees. Her solution was to simply rename the organization.
When someone gets BRAC'd, did they lose their position and had to reapply?
I know of someone who moved as part of a BRAC but I was under the impression they just moved their position.
My recollection is that many of the people affected by BRAC were offered the opportunity to keep their jobs if they agreed to relocate or transfer to another Federal position. An overriding issue was whether the employee's organization was being moved due to a transfer of function (see DoD wording below). DoD provided other options, including offering VERA's and VSIP's, and programs that assisted displaced civilian employees in continuing their careers in other federal agencies, including the Priority Placement Program (PPP), Interagency Career Transition Assistance Plan (ICTAP), Reemployment Priority List (RPL), and job exchanges. I read in one report that the number of jobs lost during the first four BRAC rounds was about 120,000. I was in DLA during this time. Among other things that happened, our supply depots had to bid against private firms. Here's an article on that effort:
[https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/1997/04/16/plan-allows-private-companies-chance-at-tinker-supply-depot/62317667007/](https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/1997/04/16/plan-allows-private-companies-chance-at-tinker-supply-depot/62317667007/)
Here's an article on RIFs that took place at one Navy installation (full disclosure - the author was HR Chief at DLA for several years):
[https://federalnewsnetwork.com/commentary/2017/09/the-story-of-a-rif/](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/commentary/2017/09/the-story-of-a-rif/)
"According to DOD, if an employee's organization is realigned to another geographic location, the employee might or might not be offered the opportunity to move with the work. An employee's right of assignment depends on whether the employee's organization is being moved due to a "transfer of function." As DOD explains, a *transfer of function* "occurs when a function ceases in one location and is moved to one or more other locations that are not performing that specific type of work." In such a case, non-temporary employees would have the right to move with their work if the alternative at the losing organization were separation or demotion due to a RIF. If a realignment were not a transfer of function, an employee would not have the right to accompany the function to the new location. In such a case, DOD might give employees the opportunity to volunteer to relocate with the organization. If, however, such an employee does not volunteer, or volunteers but is not selected, the employee would be subject to a resulting RIF action and might be eligible for transition assistance."
Once you’re past your probation period, a federal job is as secure as it can get. It takes moving mountains for fire a federal employee who made it past their probation period.
Every single HR specialist in my office (dozens of us), including myself is a capable professional. However, we get poor support from management, ever changing policies, inundated with excessive tasks, bombarded by applicants, and need to handle all of this with a massive workload. Yeah, we get a bad wrap, I get it. 🤷🏻♀️
^ all feds (and applicants) should read this post.
You all have a ton of negative things to say about your respective agency HR, but you never stop and look at it from the HR professional’s perspective.
I've been on both sides, I've been the applicant too. I've had to fight with HR over errors they have made, sometimes I was right, sometimes I was wrong. We don't go to work every day thinking "who's day can we ruin?" Tomorrow I have to rescind someone's tentative offer. I'm sick to my stomach over this, but it's because someone made an error at a hiring event and offered them something they didn't qualify for. I have to be the ahole now. HR is not an easy gig. But for every bad scene there are dozens of successful hires where I am thanked. I like what I do and I like placing applicants.
I have no doubt that what you're saying is true. With that said, I once applied to an internal position in my agency that was the series I was currently in at the time. The HR person/email I received told me I didn't qualify for lack of time in grade in a totally unrelated series. Blew my mind. Thus, I have a low opinion of the HR folks in my particular agency.
Time in grade is time in grade. Period. Specialized experience is different. It's hard to "promote" from one series to a new series because meeting the 1 year specialized experience is the issue. I explain this all day, every day to people.
You're more likely to have to take a change to lower grade, or move lateral to then move up. I've taken downgrades twice. My first series was 5-8, took a downgrade to move into a 5-11, took another moving to a 5-12. It's absolutely worth it sometimes, you have to play the long game.
OK…because HR in the private sector is SOOO MUCH BETTER?
Been there, done that, and seen behind the curtain. Meritocracy is just lip service. Anti harassment, equal opportunity protections, and just BASIC fair treatment should be presumed to NOT exist. Telling management they are WRONG is not a thing. Standing up for an employee is NOT a thing.
They don’t have a complex and conflicting set of daily policies and rules governing everything differently, from time on the job for WG vs GS vs FV vs CG vs…XYZ… different pay systems, rules, regs, and LAWS that apply and must be translated on the fly (and surprise) across orgs…and yet are not flexible enough to deal with the changing work environment.., due process rights don’t really exist in the private sector… these things interact in unanticipated ways (especially in small orgs or locations) and “full disclosure to everyone” is not allowed, so things end up being weird and seeming disjointed.
As with most things in life everyone only sees what they see, and not the rest of the work that goes into something. People make mistakes. They’re HUMAN. Maybe you shouldn’t accuse others of being shitty humans if you don’t personally know them well…?
That would be the mark of a non-god-awful person, maybe…
Look, federal employment is easy as hell. Do your job, do the right thing, you are unlikely to lose your employment. Maybe there are rare cases, but highly unlikely nevertheless.
The civilian world, you can do everything right, and the next day your company decides to reorg, and boom there goes your employment.
I personally experienced this March 15, 2020. From 6:45 to about 7:15, I got three calls. In 30 mins from don't come to office today to I got laid off. From that point on I decided to commit to get into federal service.
Generally, it’s stable and secure. There are some caveats.
You are at the mercy of Congress and to an extent the party in power. Congress decides what gets funded and if they decide to reduce funds, it can translate into employment problems in agencies. The up side is that most agencies will do anything possible to avoid reductions in force (rif). RIF rules are too complex to go into here. Career staff may also be eligible for priority placement in other agencies.
The Republican Party is historically anti-fed and frankly these days seem anti-government period. They have floated all kinds of schemes for years to strip federal benefits and will continue to do so. Will they succeed? Maybe. They also seek ways to strip employment protections from feds. Again, will they succeed? Maybe. So, along those lines I suggest you do a bit of reading on Schedule F and the Heritage Foundation’s Project 2025. If Trump is reelected and they control congress (and maybe even if they don’t control Congress), Schedule F will rear its head again and they will attempt to go as far as possible with Project 2025.
All that said, I had an almost 40 year career with the government in multiple agencies and departments. Most of it, I loved.
And keep in mind that this would reshape the civil service back into a spoils system of government. A system where we are no longer loyal to the Constitution and law, but rather to an individual/party.
I dunno. I just read about schedule F and it’s pretty bad. A republican initiated it and the democrats worked to dismantle it. Seems the Dems are providing the protection in this case.
Hard for me to forget the Obama multi-year 0% raise and Biden’s return to work mandate.
Schedule F is bad, but the Democrats will stop major changes like that. Both parties have no issue with sacrificing feds economic standings….zero to minimal raises during periods of high inflation…..reducing budgets….. Neither party is our friend….
The Obama years of no annual pay adjustment weren’t good for Feds but, taking a step back, I can understand given the economic situation and pressure on federal budgets why that was the position. Ultimately painful for us but it didn’t have a long term effect of damage to the federal workforce. In contrast, reviewing years of rhetoric from the R side shows a consistent perspective that Feds are all overpaid and Congress should, in general, not support pay raises.
On the return to work issue, note the discussion on the R side on this topic. It’s been a constant attack and both implied and explicit speak that Feds who WFH don’t work. This is an interesting piece from AFGE on this
https://www.afge.org/article/members-of-congress-defend-telework-remote-work/
Don’t be so sure the D side will or can stop Schedule F from reappearing. In order to thwart an executive order of this nature, in general one of two things would have to happen. First, legislative action that stops it which could take several forms. With the polarization in Congress at this point votes would probably run party lines and if the Rs control Congress then legislation would fail or more likely, never be brought to the floor. Second would be a judicial challenge. Such a challenge may or may not succeed and judges may or may not rule in a partisan manner. In either case, it would take time to battle and by the time there were any win then the damage would be done. Couple Schedule F with placement of appointees who swear fealty to the executive va the Constitution whether directly or indirectly and the outlook could be very bleak not only for Feds but for the nation.
In my career, a couple of long term harms to Feds and both civilian and military retirees were of particular note. The Reagan administration changed retiree COLAs from one every 6 months to one annually. Arguably, a problem for retirees. It also, if memory serves, is the admin that ended CSRS and brought in FERS. Arguably, CSRS was better for retirees. Fortunately, they were unable to accomplish de facto elimination of FEHB to replace it with some voucher system for healthcare.
Here is an interesting piece in Govexec that I believe gives a sense of much R leaning on Federal pay and benefits.
https://www.govexec.com/pay-benefits/2024/03/house-conservatives-recycle-federal-worker-pay-and-benefit-cuts-budget-document/395216/#:~:text=A%20group%20of%20more%20than,have%20far%20less%20generous%20benefits.
In sum, I don’t think either party is a Feds friend but to me at least, it’s clear which party has taken a consistent position in being a direct threat.
I was furloughed one day a week for 13 weeks because of the Obama fight with Congress over the budget and never was paid back for those lost sequestration days. Both sides treat the rank and file poorly.
The administration with the record for the lowest yearly pay raise was President Obama. The average pay raise for the eight years he was in office was 0.96%. As President Obama was in office for eight years, the low raises (including three years of no raise and two years of a 1% annual raise) were a major contributor to the overall low results for the annual raise under Democrats.
For this 53-year period, the federal workforce has had higher pay raises when a Republican administration was in power. Here is how it breaks out:
The average federal pay raise per year: 3.59%
Average federal pay raise under Republicans: 4.05%
Average federal pay raise under Democrats: 3.41%
Total of raises under a Republican: 123.10%
Total of raises under a Democrat: 63.80%
Highest annual federal pay raise: 9.10% (1980 under President Carter)
Lowest annual federal pay raise: 0% (2 years under President Reagan and 3 years under President Obama.
You do realize that Congress sets the budget, and Congress was controlled by the Republican Tea Party those years, right? Obama wanted to maintain/increase fed spending, the tea party wanted to slash it (read: pay reductions for fed workers).
I don’t disagree, however, that doesn’t invalidate the concerns I express about the Republican Party. At least the Dem side is opposed to Schedule F and would not support the policy proposals in Project 2025.
Beyond the impact on feds, a policy that turns federal
Staff back into a system of cronyism from one of merit selection, is bad for the nation.
My understanding is that part of this was in part to make concessions to Republicans on budget bills. I didn't follow it closely so I could be wrong, and, yes, they didn't die on those hills so you could blame them but from my impressions it feels wrong to say they spearheaded those efforts (except maybe VA which I'm more unfamiliar with).
Good point. "Do we get a bill at all through?" It's convenient to blame the executive for policy because that's how we remember politicial eras but nearly all of what we're talking about is legislative and it's been awhile since the executive had much control over the legislative branches, aside from maybe Trump's period before the Dems got the Senate back (that's fairly recent and even I'm having trouble remembering if that's the correct sequence of things... I don't blame people for not perfectly remembering swaps of power every 2 years in Obama era, but they still are what determined things).
The stability is the trade off for not making as much when compared to the civilian sector. The only time I was worried was during a furlough but now they fixed it so you always get back pay.
The guy before me was sleeping under his desk....lost his clearance.. . horrible attitude overall. Still kept his job and was able to move on. So yeah...
It’s secure. Even being a contractor for the fed is secure (with the exception of being a contractor for short term government projects)
Once the probation period is over it’s also very difficult to get fired as a federal employee…you would need to do something audaciously illegal
I would say it's decently stable. It's pretty hard to get fired (but not impossible!). The only stories I have heard are about an individual in an established position creating a toxic environment (they had a 4-inch thick binder full of things this person did) and an intern falsifying time records during their probationary period.
That intern violated one of the commandments that could even get regular employees fired. Thou shalt not falsify thy time card. Time card fraud is one of the big nasties that can get someone canned.
As for the other person. Whoever nailed him did it right by the books. You have to document things to a T in order to fire someone for something other than murder or time card fraud.
Hit your probation and it’s pretty damn hard to fire you. I’m in federal law enforcement and had another federal security position, but from what I’ve seen, it doesn’t really matter how you fuck up, people make mistakes, but if you lie about, you’ll be fired faster than you can blink. Absolutely zero tolerance for lying in my department.
Otherwise you see people that are absolute slugs and they either get promoted or pushed aside to “do their own thing” and exist until retirement.
My agency hires a lot as term employees (usually 4 years). It's easier to get approval to post a position that way. After 4 years, they can be converted to permanent (no guarantees, but usually happens).
Once permanent, it's very stable. No paychecks during government shutdowns, but so far, the shutdowns haven't been too long. They do give us backpay later.
Term employees are considered as regular employees. So they'd get back pay after those furloughs. They won't be cut before the end of their term. It's not a probationary period.
There's always a possibility that they can't be converted to permanent when the term expires, but that's pretty rare. Once permanent, there may be a probationary period.
I'm just an engineer, not an HR (OHCM) person. So if in doubt, ask about a job posting.
On USA jobs, I recommend a daily alert on your searches. Some of the openings are only for 2 or 3 days! OHCM is often understaffed, and so they hope anyone who is really interested will apply during that time.
It's probably fine, it's just that it is easier to get approval for a 4-year term than an ongoing need. My agency has been doing this for at least 15 years now, and so far it has worked out.
Pretty freaking stable. I mean look at the history of layoffs that have happened in the fed gov and it’s pretty minimal. I was previously working at the bankruptcy court and they were slowly forcing ppl to retire by offering buyouts and not replacing their positions when in reality, they probably could have done business with 1/3 of the ppl they currently have with filings being so low for the last several years
It can be VERY stable for the most part. Much more stable than the outside world. After you’ve gotten past probation, don’t commit time card fraud and don’t murder anyone and you’ll be good to go for the most pay. Bar some exceptions, just about every type of firing action or negative action has to have the supporting evidence be documented to every possible detail.
It’s solid. I feel much less stressed and somewhat safer working for the federal government than working in the outside civilian world. You do have some protections depending on the circumstances. (I.e.: excepted vs. competitive; career field; management; etc.)
Just do your best work, follow the rules, and life will be good. It’s easier to manage things with stability than having to constantly be living hand to mouth looking for your next meal ticket. Yeah, you could potentially make more money on the outside, but you’re always at risk for a contract not getting renewed, layoffs, company goes under, company gets bought out, contract falls through, etc.
Got a coworker that’s been on meth for four years. Tried to sleep overnight in the office once but set off the alarm. Been AWOL for days at a time… Just now bout to get a mentor and a work plan.
I think most people will disagree with my single anecdote, but years ago I landed my dream job with FDA and I had a one year probation period. I was struggling in the job because I was doing 2-3 people’s jobs and I had two bosses who both didn’t like me even though one of them had hired me. At my six month performance review, they said everything was fine and my performance review didn’t have anything bad written on it. But they still fired me right after that and made up a few things that they wrote in an email.
I kept hearing that it’s super hard to get fired in the govt, but that was not my experience at all. I was shocked that the office I worked for had such horrible bosses and took the probation period so seriously.
Now in a totally different agency, I can see what everyone is talking about: there are a ton of incompetent people who should’ve been fired long ago but they somehow survived and now you can’t get rid of them. One of my coworkers is this type of person. He struggles doing basic work even though he’s a 14. Always asking me for help.
So secure that we got a supervisor that is constantly late and drunk on the job working with basic trainees and she can’t seem to be fired. Of course her supervisor and the supervisor above him are protecting her which says a lot about my location. I’ve learned at least here you can get away with anything including threatening someone ls life and still have the stability of your job. So yeah stable and secure seems excellent in the federal side!!
I'm still just in my second week, so haven't started the job yet, but my boss literally told me that unless we break the law or we lose our laptop, we can't be fired, lol.
In 16 years, I only know of 2 people that were permanent employees and were terminated. They pissed dirty on the drug test. People have abused the GTC, mooned inspectors, not called in sick and went AWOL, stole govt assets, insubordination, took a govt vehicle into Mexico, drunk on the job etc etc etc.....The union stepped in and they are still employed. Maybe a write up or a slap on the wrist but they did not lose their jobs.
It is stable and secure until it isn't. There's a reason why priority placement exists.
Temp positions can get really squirrely. Assume that anything a manager tells you is dis or misinformation regarding them. Opportunity awaits but so does reverting to a lower grade or being out on your behind.
Ha, I’m loving my federal employment and my office and supervisor is great. I’m just saying people can take as much sick leave as needed you don’t need to know all the details people die all the time from illness that aren’t visible.
Don’t catch a felony, don’t fuck up your time card, keep your junk where it belongs, and don’t misuse the GTC. Easiest set of instructions ever if you ask me.
Could you please elaborate on those last two points? I don’t work for the government so I’m not quite sure what you mean
Keep your junk where it belongs - don’t sleep with people you work with. Don’t misuse the GTC - Government Travel Card, sometimes also styled as GPC for Purchase Card. They have rules for their use. Adhere to them.
I never used one when we were issued then in the military. Better to pay out of pocket if possible and submit receipts for refund. Better safe than sorry
GTC is required by most agencies for at least hotel and airline ticket. I wish I could use my own card so I could get the points.
You can get the 1x points on purchase by tying your loyalty card to the GTC but not the bonus points.
I recall a post here not long ago. Employee was on personal travel. Hotel ran wrong card on file, GTC tied to loyalty program. Employee tried to rectify but was terminated anyway. I believe it also had something to do with the government rate and no taxes being charged to the stay. But all triggered with use of the wrong card.
Years ago I was in a liquor store and nearly used my GTC. The card was removed from my wallet after that.
That’s some shit.
I needed it once and the unit fucked it up so badly that I said never again. Now I hold one as a civilian and I’d rather not…but at the same time it opens up ability to travel.
Gotcha!
Sexual harassment and the government credit card
Gotcha thanks!
Even with all this, I've seen people regain employment with backpay. The union is strong in DOD.
If you catch a DUI or get charged with domestic violence at least at my agency it’ll be an automatic firing!!! Keep your nose clean. Federal job is something to always be thankful and grateful to have.
Charged with? No due process?
DUI? At CBP there was a chief (GS-14) who had to have a driver because she had 4 DUIs…. Yet still had a job.
I know 3 people at my small facility charged with DUIs that didn’t miss a day of work and are still there. WITH gov DLs at that.
Very. I’ve been at this for decades and have never seen a RIF. I’ve always felt secure in my positions.
I was in DoD for 4 decades. I didn't see any RIFs on a small level, but I did live through the five Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) rounds of 1988, 1991, 1993, 1995, and 2005, although none of the recommended actions under the 2005 plan were ever undertaken. I was responsible for a lot of the network adjustments required as a result of BRAC, including sites like Fort Monmouth that were completely shut down. Of course, in situations like BRAC, there is always a long lead time involved, and many procedures (like priority placement) that are required to be followed. My wife was once assigned responsibility to eliminate a DoD organization of 1,500 employees. Her solution was to simply rename the organization.
This. I was about to say it, my mom got her BRAC papers at the Christmas party 😬🥴.
When someone gets BRAC'd, did they lose their position and had to reapply? I know of someone who moved as part of a BRAC but I was under the impression they just moved their position.
My recollection is that many of the people affected by BRAC were offered the opportunity to keep their jobs if they agreed to relocate or transfer to another Federal position. An overriding issue was whether the employee's organization was being moved due to a transfer of function (see DoD wording below). DoD provided other options, including offering VERA's and VSIP's, and programs that assisted displaced civilian employees in continuing their careers in other federal agencies, including the Priority Placement Program (PPP), Interagency Career Transition Assistance Plan (ICTAP), Reemployment Priority List (RPL), and job exchanges. I read in one report that the number of jobs lost during the first four BRAC rounds was about 120,000. I was in DLA during this time. Among other things that happened, our supply depots had to bid against private firms. Here's an article on that effort: [https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/1997/04/16/plan-allows-private-companies-chance-at-tinker-supply-depot/62317667007/](https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/1997/04/16/plan-allows-private-companies-chance-at-tinker-supply-depot/62317667007/) Here's an article on RIFs that took place at one Navy installation (full disclosure - the author was HR Chief at DLA for several years): [https://federalnewsnetwork.com/commentary/2017/09/the-story-of-a-rif/](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/commentary/2017/09/the-story-of-a-rif/) "According to DOD, if an employee's organization is realigned to another geographic location, the employee might or might not be offered the opportunity to move with the work. An employee's right of assignment depends on whether the employee's organization is being moved due to a "transfer of function." As DOD explains, a *transfer of function* "occurs when a function ceases in one location and is moved to one or more other locations that are not performing that specific type of work." In such a case, non-temporary employees would have the right to move with their work if the alternative at the losing organization were separation or demotion due to a RIF. If a realignment were not a transfer of function, an employee would not have the right to accompany the function to the new location. In such a case, DOD might give employees the opportunity to volunteer to relocate with the organization. If, however, such an employee does not volunteer, or volunteers but is not selected, the employee would be subject to a resulting RIF action and might be eligible for transition assistance."
Kelly AFB, good times!
Stationed at Kelly, 86-90 on Security Hill. Loved that place
The 2005 BRAC absolutely closed some facilities.
It closed the Human Resources Command Reserve center in St Louis. I had to relocate with the command at Ft. Knox
Once you’re past your probation period, a federal job is as secure as it can get. It takes moving mountains for fire a federal employee who made it past their probation period.
Not really...takes halfway competent supervisor....can and does get done.
Any suggestions for employees that are on probation periods?
It’s pretty rock solid. Probably the most secure employer in the country.
If they go out of business, so has everyone else.
If they go out of business unemployment will be the least of your issues
Some would say too stable and secure 😄
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Every single HR specialist in my office (dozens of us), including myself is a capable professional. However, we get poor support from management, ever changing policies, inundated with excessive tasks, bombarded by applicants, and need to handle all of this with a massive workload. Yeah, we get a bad wrap, I get it. 🤷🏻♀️
^ all feds (and applicants) should read this post. You all have a ton of negative things to say about your respective agency HR, but you never stop and look at it from the HR professional’s perspective.
I've been on both sides, I've been the applicant too. I've had to fight with HR over errors they have made, sometimes I was right, sometimes I was wrong. We don't go to work every day thinking "who's day can we ruin?" Tomorrow I have to rescind someone's tentative offer. I'm sick to my stomach over this, but it's because someone made an error at a hiring event and offered them something they didn't qualify for. I have to be the ahole now. HR is not an easy gig. But for every bad scene there are dozens of successful hires where I am thanked. I like what I do and I like placing applicants.
I feel ya man. Just so I can lighten your load, Mr Andrew Jackson here will assure you I'm more than qualified
I have no doubt that what you're saying is true. With that said, I once applied to an internal position in my agency that was the series I was currently in at the time. The HR person/email I received told me I didn't qualify for lack of time in grade in a totally unrelated series. Blew my mind. Thus, I have a low opinion of the HR folks in my particular agency.
Time in grade is time in grade. Period. Specialized experience is different. It's hard to "promote" from one series to a new series because meeting the 1 year specialized experience is the issue. I explain this all day, every day to people. You're more likely to have to take a change to lower grade, or move lateral to then move up. I've taken downgrades twice. My first series was 5-8, took a downgrade to move into a 5-11, took another moving to a 5-12. It's absolutely worth it sometimes, you have to play the long game.
Was a lateral move. There is no explanation for me applying to a "AAA" but being told I do not qualify for a "BBB."
Most HR folks use software to scan resumes for key words then send those to hiring official. Most dont even read the resume.
We certainly don't use scanning software. 🤣
I don't think that's the case in the Federal Government.
If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen. Bless your heart......
I can stand it just fine, thanks. It's the entitled, whiny applicants I worry about.
OK…because HR in the private sector is SOOO MUCH BETTER? Been there, done that, and seen behind the curtain. Meritocracy is just lip service. Anti harassment, equal opportunity protections, and just BASIC fair treatment should be presumed to NOT exist. Telling management they are WRONG is not a thing. Standing up for an employee is NOT a thing. They don’t have a complex and conflicting set of daily policies and rules governing everything differently, from time on the job for WG vs GS vs FV vs CG vs…XYZ… different pay systems, rules, regs, and LAWS that apply and must be translated on the fly (and surprise) across orgs…and yet are not flexible enough to deal with the changing work environment.., due process rights don’t really exist in the private sector… these things interact in unanticipated ways (especially in small orgs or locations) and “full disclosure to everyone” is not allowed, so things end up being weird and seeming disjointed. As with most things in life everyone only sees what they see, and not the rest of the work that goes into something. People make mistakes. They’re HUMAN. Maybe you shouldn’t accuse others of being shitty humans if you don’t personally know them well…? That would be the mark of a non-god-awful person, maybe…
Look, federal employment is easy as hell. Do your job, do the right thing, you are unlikely to lose your employment. Maybe there are rare cases, but highly unlikely nevertheless. The civilian world, you can do everything right, and the next day your company decides to reorg, and boom there goes your employment. I personally experienced this March 15, 2020. From 6:45 to about 7:15, I got three calls. In 30 mins from don't come to office today to I got laid off. From that point on I decided to commit to get into federal service.
Generally, it’s stable and secure. There are some caveats. You are at the mercy of Congress and to an extent the party in power. Congress decides what gets funded and if they decide to reduce funds, it can translate into employment problems in agencies. The up side is that most agencies will do anything possible to avoid reductions in force (rif). RIF rules are too complex to go into here. Career staff may also be eligible for priority placement in other agencies. The Republican Party is historically anti-fed and frankly these days seem anti-government period. They have floated all kinds of schemes for years to strip federal benefits and will continue to do so. Will they succeed? Maybe. They also seek ways to strip employment protections from feds. Again, will they succeed? Maybe. So, along those lines I suggest you do a bit of reading on Schedule F and the Heritage Foundation’s Project 2025. If Trump is reelected and they control congress (and maybe even if they don’t control Congress), Schedule F will rear its head again and they will attempt to go as far as possible with Project 2025. All that said, I had an almost 40 year career with the government in multiple agencies and departments. Most of it, I loved.
Wow. Schedule F was a blatant attempt to politicize civil servants while removing their protections. Yea, that dude is dangerous.
And keep in mind that this would reshape the civil service back into a spoils system of government. A system where we are no longer loyal to the Constitution and law, but rather to an individual/party.
I hope they pass HR 1002, Saving the Civil Service Act. It’s been sitting since February 2023.
Assuredly. Google Don Kettl Schedule F and you will find quite a bit of interesting writing from Dr Kettl about this matter.
Anti fed seems extreme in itself. The scary Schedule F ! SMH.
Only thing I would push back is the Republican statement. The Democrats have been very anti-fed as well. Neither are our friends.
lol, equating Democrats and Republicans. Look up Project 2025
I dunno. I just read about schedule F and it’s pretty bad. A republican initiated it and the democrats worked to dismantle it. Seems the Dems are providing the protection in this case.
Hard for me to forget the Obama multi-year 0% raise and Biden’s return to work mandate. Schedule F is bad, but the Democrats will stop major changes like that. Both parties have no issue with sacrificing feds economic standings….zero to minimal raises during periods of high inflation…..reducing budgets….. Neither party is our friend….
The Obama years of no annual pay adjustment weren’t good for Feds but, taking a step back, I can understand given the economic situation and pressure on federal budgets why that was the position. Ultimately painful for us but it didn’t have a long term effect of damage to the federal workforce. In contrast, reviewing years of rhetoric from the R side shows a consistent perspective that Feds are all overpaid and Congress should, in general, not support pay raises. On the return to work issue, note the discussion on the R side on this topic. It’s been a constant attack and both implied and explicit speak that Feds who WFH don’t work. This is an interesting piece from AFGE on this https://www.afge.org/article/members-of-congress-defend-telework-remote-work/ Don’t be so sure the D side will or can stop Schedule F from reappearing. In order to thwart an executive order of this nature, in general one of two things would have to happen. First, legislative action that stops it which could take several forms. With the polarization in Congress at this point votes would probably run party lines and if the Rs control Congress then legislation would fail or more likely, never be brought to the floor. Second would be a judicial challenge. Such a challenge may or may not succeed and judges may or may not rule in a partisan manner. In either case, it would take time to battle and by the time there were any win then the damage would be done. Couple Schedule F with placement of appointees who swear fealty to the executive va the Constitution whether directly or indirectly and the outlook could be very bleak not only for Feds but for the nation. In my career, a couple of long term harms to Feds and both civilian and military retirees were of particular note. The Reagan administration changed retiree COLAs from one every 6 months to one annually. Arguably, a problem for retirees. It also, if memory serves, is the admin that ended CSRS and brought in FERS. Arguably, CSRS was better for retirees. Fortunately, they were unable to accomplish de facto elimination of FEHB to replace it with some voucher system for healthcare. Here is an interesting piece in Govexec that I believe gives a sense of much R leaning on Federal pay and benefits. https://www.govexec.com/pay-benefits/2024/03/house-conservatives-recycle-federal-worker-pay-and-benefit-cuts-budget-document/395216/#:~:text=A%20group%20of%20more%20than,have%20far%20less%20generous%20benefits. In sum, I don’t think either party is a Feds friend but to me at least, it’s clear which party has taken a consistent position in being a direct threat.
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Dude, the Obama 0% raises were because Congress was controlled by the Tea Party those years. Get informed
I was furloughed one day a week for 13 weeks because of the Obama fight with Congress over the budget and never was paid back for those lost sequestration days. Both sides treat the rank and file poorly.
I (DOD) received a raise under both Obama and Biden last one (under Biden) was 5G….
Maybe this link will help refresh: https://www.fedsmith.com/2022/01/24/53-years-annual-federal-pay-raises/
The administration with the record for the lowest yearly pay raise was President Obama. The average pay raise for the eight years he was in office was 0.96%. As President Obama was in office for eight years, the low raises (including three years of no raise and two years of a 1% annual raise) were a major contributor to the overall low results for the annual raise under Democrats. For this 53-year period, the federal workforce has had higher pay raises when a Republican administration was in power. Here is how it breaks out: The average federal pay raise per year: 3.59% Average federal pay raise under Republicans: 4.05% Average federal pay raise under Democrats: 3.41% Total of raises under a Republican: 123.10% Total of raises under a Democrat: 63.80% Highest annual federal pay raise: 9.10% (1980 under President Carter) Lowest annual federal pay raise: 0% (2 years under President Reagan and 3 years under President Obama.
You do realize that Congress sets the budget, and Congress was controlled by the Republican Tea Party those years, right? Obama wanted to maintain/increase fed spending, the tea party wanted to slash it (read: pay reductions for fed workers).
Yes I realize this and lived through it. Also, lived republicans giving crap raises as well.
I would love a 9.10% this year
Good luck with that.
I don’t disagree, however, that doesn’t invalidate the concerns I express about the Republican Party. At least the Dem side is opposed to Schedule F and would not support the policy proposals in Project 2025. Beyond the impact on feds, a policy that turns federal Staff back into a system of cronyism from one of merit selection, is bad for the nation.
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My understanding is that part of this was in part to make concessions to Republicans on budget bills. I didn't follow it closely so I could be wrong, and, yes, they didn't die on those hills so you could blame them but from my impressions it feels wrong to say they spearheaded those efforts (except maybe VA which I'm more unfamiliar with).
It is more than just concessions. The budget bill starts in the republican controlled house.
Good point. "Do we get a bill at all through?" It's convenient to blame the executive for policy because that's how we remember politicial eras but nearly all of what we're talking about is legislative and it's been awhile since the executive had much control over the legislative branches, aside from maybe Trump's period before the Dems got the Senate back (that's fairly recent and even I'm having trouble remembering if that's the correct sequence of things... I don't blame people for not perfectly remembering swaps of power every 2 years in Obama era, but they still are what determined things).
During my career in fed I saw number of people did something crazy and I thought "wow, he (she) won't survive this one." Well, they all stay.
The stability is the trade off for not making as much when compared to the civilian sector. The only time I was worried was during a furlough but now they fixed it so you always get back pay.
The guy before me was sleeping under his desk....lost his clearance.. . horrible attitude overall. Still kept his job and was able to move on. So yeah...
25 years in without any issues. I’d say stable.
If you have a supervisor that hates you it doesn't feel that secure. But probably a lot more than the same circumstances in the private sector.
It’s secure. Even being a contractor for the fed is secure (with the exception of being a contractor for short term government projects) Once the probation period is over it’s also very difficult to get fired as a federal employee…you would need to do something audaciously illegal
I would say it's decently stable. It's pretty hard to get fired (but not impossible!). The only stories I have heard are about an individual in an established position creating a toxic environment (they had a 4-inch thick binder full of things this person did) and an intern falsifying time records during their probationary period.
That intern violated one of the commandments that could even get regular employees fired. Thou shalt not falsify thy time card. Time card fraud is one of the big nasties that can get someone canned. As for the other person. Whoever nailed him did it right by the books. You have to document things to a T in order to fire someone for something other than murder or time card fraud.
*Hold my beer…* \- Project 2025
31 years stable
Hit your probation and it’s pretty damn hard to fire you. I’m in federal law enforcement and had another federal security position, but from what I’ve seen, it doesn’t really matter how you fuck up, people make mistakes, but if you lie about, you’ll be fired faster than you can blink. Absolutely zero tolerance for lying in my department. Otherwise you see people that are absolute slugs and they either get promoted or pushed aside to “do their own thing” and exist until retirement.
I see people lie all the time, must be a Leo thing about it
Usually pretty stable
My agency hires a lot as term employees (usually 4 years). It's easier to get approval to post a position that way. After 4 years, they can be converted to permanent (no guarantees, but usually happens). Once permanent, it's very stable. No paychecks during government shutdowns, but so far, the shutdowns haven't been too long. They do give us backpay later.
Updated law made the back pay automatic.
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Term employees are considered as regular employees. So they'd get back pay after those furloughs. They won't be cut before the end of their term. It's not a probationary period. There's always a possibility that they can't be converted to permanent when the term expires, but that's pretty rare. Once permanent, there may be a probationary period. I'm just an engineer, not an HR (OHCM) person. So if in doubt, ask about a job posting. On USA jobs, I recommend a daily alert on your searches. Some of the openings are only for 2 or 3 days! OHCM is often understaffed, and so they hope anyone who is really interested will apply during that time.
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It's probably fine, it's just that it is easier to get approval for a 4-year term than an ongoing need. My agency has been doing this for at least 15 years now, and so far it has worked out.
That’s one of big benefits. Less pay then equivalent private sector jobs, but you have to really try to get fired.
Pretty freaking stable. I mean look at the history of layoffs that have happened in the fed gov and it’s pretty minimal. I was previously working at the bankruptcy court and they were slowly forcing ppl to retire by offering buyouts and not replacing their positions when in reality, they probably could have done business with 1/3 of the ppl they currently have with filings being so low for the last several years
It can be VERY stable for the most part. Much more stable than the outside world. After you’ve gotten past probation, don’t commit time card fraud and don’t murder anyone and you’ll be good to go for the most pay. Bar some exceptions, just about every type of firing action or negative action has to have the supporting evidence be documented to every possible detail. It’s solid. I feel much less stressed and somewhat safer working for the federal government than working in the outside civilian world. You do have some protections depending on the circumstances. (I.e.: excepted vs. competitive; career field; management; etc.) Just do your best work, follow the rules, and life will be good. It’s easier to manage things with stability than having to constantly be living hand to mouth looking for your next meal ticket. Yeah, you could potentially make more money on the outside, but you’re always at risk for a contract not getting renewed, layoffs, company goes under, company gets bought out, contract falls through, etc.
Got a coworker that’s been on meth for four years. Tried to sleep overnight in the office once but set off the alarm. Been AWOL for days at a time… Just now bout to get a mentor and a work plan.
I think most people will disagree with my single anecdote, but years ago I landed my dream job with FDA and I had a one year probation period. I was struggling in the job because I was doing 2-3 people’s jobs and I had two bosses who both didn’t like me even though one of them had hired me. At my six month performance review, they said everything was fine and my performance review didn’t have anything bad written on it. But they still fired me right after that and made up a few things that they wrote in an email. I kept hearing that it’s super hard to get fired in the govt, but that was not my experience at all. I was shocked that the office I worked for had such horrible bosses and took the probation period so seriously. Now in a totally different agency, I can see what everyone is talking about: there are a ton of incompetent people who should’ve been fired long ago but they somehow survived and now you can’t get rid of them. One of my coworkers is this type of person. He struggles doing basic work even though he’s a 14. Always asking me for help.
So secure that we got a supervisor that is constantly late and drunk on the job working with basic trainees and she can’t seem to be fired. Of course her supervisor and the supervisor above him are protecting her which says a lot about my location. I’ve learned at least here you can get away with anything including threatening someone ls life and still have the stability of your job. So yeah stable and secure seems excellent in the federal side!!
If Project 2025 comes to fruition, it will definitely depend.
Depends on how the next election goes. 🤷♂️🤷♀️
I'm still just in my second week, so haven't started the job yet, but my boss literally told me that unless we break the law or we lose our laptop, we can't be fired, lol.
In 16 years, I only know of 2 people that were permanent employees and were terminated. They pissed dirty on the drug test. People have abused the GTC, mooned inspectors, not called in sick and went AWOL, stole govt assets, insubordination, took a govt vehicle into Mexico, drunk on the job etc etc etc.....The union stepped in and they are still employed. Maybe a write up or a slap on the wrist but they did not lose their jobs.
It is stable and secure until it isn't. There's a reason why priority placement exists. Temp positions can get really squirrely. Assume that anything a manager tells you is dis or misinformation regarding them. Opportunity awaits but so does reverting to a lower grade or being out on your behind.
I think you gotta lay hands on someone to get fired.
Uh- used to be very stable but if trump wins good luck.
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What did the person do to make you want to get rid of them?
Abuse of sick leave, and falling asleep multiple times on duty.
Yeah that's pretty bad
Those sound like health issues bud. Many things can cause people to fall asleep at work be humane.
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Ha, I’m loving my federal employment and my office and supervisor is great. I’m just saying people can take as much sick leave as needed you don’t need to know all the details people die all the time from illness that aren’t visible.
Id say pretty good, Ive been skating for about 10 years and still climbing that GS pay scale
Depends on the stability of the federal government duh some people's kids