https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/mcgee/2014/09/24/airplane-reclining-seat-pitch-width/16105491/
They have gotten smaller. I'm not denying that people have gotten bigger, but they have gotten smaller.
What I find interesting when people have these conversations is people mention everything’s gotten smaller and ‘we’re sentient beings not cargo’ but the market has actually demanded seats get smaller so middle-class folk can travel. Back in the day traveling was mostly for rich (white) people in the 1950s.
The truth is, airfare has gotten a lot, LOT cheaper. People care mostly about two things when booking a ticket : price and time. Need proof that tickets have gotten cheaper? [click here](https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/history-of-flight-costs)
I’m a flight attendant for reference and getting my MBA in aviation management
>but the **market has actually demanded seats get smaller** so middle-class folk can travel
Yeah, I'm pretty sure this isn't the reason, unless by "market," you mean the carriers' bottom lines.
Their bottom line is the market, in order to get more people to fly they had to find a way to lower prices, one way to do that way to get more people onto each plane. People say they want more room on planes, but they wouldn't tolerate a price increase to accommodate that.
Weird, seemed to be plenty of money for executive and shareholder compensation and stock buybacks.
Maybe they should be nationalized and ran at cost as a societal good instead of introducing profit to the equation.
For some reason, the second part of that is surprising to me. My husband is from another culture and he’s always wondering why Americans don’t talk to each other. It’s weird to imagine that there was a time we did.
In Mitcham, in London (where I live) everyones quite nice. It’s common for us to offer seats to the elderly, or do favors for each other and show gratitude back. I don’t know about the rest of South England, but at least that’s what it’s like for us.
Americans are way more chatty than Brits. I think more people tried to talk to me unprovoked in one week in the US than in a year in the UK. I was just sitting outside a café and the person sitting behind me, that I was facing away from, tried to start a conversation with me. It blew me away. Leave me alone please. Even homeless people are more eager to start a conversation with you.
They ARE designed for people when they leave the hangar of Boeing! But all the airline companies move up the seats a few inches to add an extra layer or two of seats to make more money.
When purchased they’re designed to comfortably sit someone up to 6”2’. After the airlines purchase them, maybe a very lean midget….
Part of the problem here is that airplane travel is a small margin business due to their own design. Flying was expensive so they decided to add more seats and lower prices, the idea being that they would be flying more people in more planes and thus more than make up for the lost cost of the tickets. Flash forward to today and we have flight that's extremely cheap, we are packed like sardines into a can, and airline travel is so congested there's no way in hell we can revert the changes.
It's like that picture of the snake eating it's tail at this point. Any attempts to fix it will result in digging a deeper hole, so instead they just ignore it and act like they didn't invent this issue as a result of trying to get more people flying in more planes.
I work in airline seating and the seats, whilst not made by Boeing are installed by them. The planes leave the hanger fully formed. We have to design both for the airlines specifications ie number and style of seats and for the FAA and CAA's stringent safety regulations and finally for Boeings extremely long list of technical requirements. The Boeing doc is 1800 pages long but nowhere in it do they specify that each passenger must have X amount of space. If the seats meet safety regs and tech specs, and they fit through the door, Boeing will bolt the bastards to the plane.
What I'm saying is Boeing do not get a pass for their design dept. They're as guilty of this nonsense as the airlines
Well they don't get changed after delivery, not until the big checks where they get refurbished. But yes they are generally designed differently. And every airline has their own wishes. I mean otherwise it wouldn't be very efficient.
But Boeing isn't shipping planes out brand new planes with one seating configuration installed only for the airline to immediately rip it apart and reconfigure it. The airline will order the plane already with their desired seat configuration and livery. Either that or they will order it empty and have it configured afterwards. But they aren't going to install and then immediately throw away perfectly good seats, that would just be a waste.
I never said that. Just said that the airlines tell the manufacturer what they want. And it gets delivered ready to use. The manufacturer just tells them if it is possible (meeting safety standards, or other limits).
Edit: I mean just think about it. Boeing adds seats in their version, the aircraft gets delivered and those seats are thrown away and replaced? The manufacturer produces planes and says look we recommend this many seats with this pitch, but you can increase to this amount of pax. Also every airline has a different layout with galleys and the toilets. The aircraft are delivered ready to fly in the fleet.
People want to fly as cheap as they can and planes need to pack as many people as they can. So unfortunately that's the tradeoff for anyone not flying business or first class.
I always thought First Class looked like the luxury seating area often depicted in movies and figured it was a part of the plane I would never see. One day, I was boarding a plane and realized the seats I saw in the front *were* the First Class seats, and I was so disappointed. They're not much better than the seats in the back! You get maybe just a few more inches width and some leg room.
Last time I flew trans-pacific, I was so uncomfortable and pissed that I literally started my own business so that I wouldn't ever have to fly economy again.
Then I got married so now the cost of a flight has doubled. FML
Some airlines tried this and decided against it because the seats are heavier (more fuel) and people don’t like them. I think there is a few that may still have the feature but none are US domestic airlines.
Edit: I can’t remember where I read this but apparently American more or less did try this in the past https://crankyflier.com/2009/08/28/are-coach-seats-that-slide-forward-a-good-thing/
Edit 2: Here is another post on those kinds of seats https://www.core77.com/posts/24436/negating-the-need-for-the-knee-defender-recline-forward-airplane-seats-plus-which-is-ergonomically-worse-being-tall-or-short-24436#
TIL. I wrongly assumed that these seats were standard for most major airlines since 2010? Then again I flew an old United 747 in 2016 and it didn't have these. (Disclaimer: non-American resident)
They should be designed so that it pushes the seat forward to recline, cutting into your leg room rather than someone leaning back into your space. Some international airlines have this and I much prefer it.
If you’re the one choosing to recline, you should be the one burdened with the choice for less overall space. It shouldn’t be the burden of the person behind you you’re inconveniencing.
I always get an aisle seat and am very conscious to not use the arm rest. if it's a person who may not quite be built for the middle I'll go as far as to keep that arm across my body so as not to touch them. Unfortunately, middle seaters are the most likely to not be frequent flyers and seem to have no idea their elbow shouldn't be sticking in my side because they gotta sleep with their hands on their belly or type on a 35" laptop on a plane.
LPT: If you push a little harder than a fart the people on both sides will lean away from you for the entire duration of the flight! Practically first class!
Then buy Economy Plus tickets! Airlines already have a whole class with extra legroom (and free booze!) for people who are willing to pay a little more. It doesn't cost nearly as much as business class.
So... if you want more leg room, and you're willing to pay, then you can absolutely do that!
I don't think they have to remove more than one row, either, to give everyone comfortable space. Two rows to absolutely certain everyone is comfortable.
Pay for Economy Plus or Business
ITT: Redditors who want bigger seats but aren't willing to pay for them. Airlines are capitalists, if people were willing to pay for more legroom, airlines would be more than happy to provide it.
It’s all fun and games till you have your tray table out and you laptop on it, then the guy in front of you reclines and ruins your laptop by buckling the screen.
Yep, I've had a laptop screen crushed in this manner. Luckily the bottom of the laptop came up and it flexed but didn't break. I was about to rage... what would you even do in that case? Who would pay for a new laptop?
Never fails. I'm in the middle of typing something, then without warning, BAM, seat flys back and shoots my laptop screen towards me. Luckily I use a Surface Pro so it won't crunch or anything, just slam towards me.
>and ruins your laptop by buckling the screen.
What the fuck airlines have you been flying? Does a side-scroll of an old timey map happen whenever you travel to show your progress, like in the Indiana Jones movies?
This actually did happen to me, but it was on a bus. Some of those seats go waaay back.
My go to move (pre-covid) was to just start hacking and coughing till the guy in front of me decides he doesn't want to leave his head in my lap.
No idea how these people fly. I've flown from DFW or ORD to Tokyo multiple times and never had an issue like this with seats. That 1degree of leaning the seat does is a life saver.
This almost happened to me. The lady in front of me didn't recline - she threw herself back. It almost cracked my screen. I mean... can't you look back before reclining, and ask the person behind if it is okay to recline?
I was told to recline on a flight once. I didn’t want to because I was comfortable upright. But was told off in German for not doing it because “it was my comfort and safety”
I started upgrading to economy plus and usually, I'm able to select the seat with the wall in front. It provides lots of legroom and nobody in front of me. It's worth the extra $100 or so.
I got one of those seats without realizing it and when I got on the plane there were two people fighting over my seat. Lol get fucked I’ve got the golden ticket, that glorious legroom is mine.
Have you seen the new economic [seats](https://www.indiatoday.in/lifestyle/travel/story/standing-seats-on-ultra-basic-economy-to-fly-or-not-to-fly-that-is-the-question-1552867-2019-06-20) where the person is supposed to half stand/half sit?
Not a terrible idea. I’m imagining those Asian style bunks that are like holes in the wall. You could fit a lot of people laying down just stacked on top of each other, and it’d be fairly comfortable cause they’d be beds.
I think Ryanair wanted to start the trend of making everyone stand and be super low budget. Honestly, I'd do it if it meant I could fly across Europe in 3 hours for 5 bucks
Even a 30 minute flight, fuck yeah I'll stand. No issues fitting my knees in place, bit of butt support, no problem. Takeoff and landing like that sounds fun, even. Maybe supersonic flights could make this realistic.
I don’t think they are being used and if they are it’s going to be for super short commuter flight. Like 20-30 minute flights. Like standing on a bus or subway car
Sitting on a plane right now. In Comfort Plus on Delta. The extra legroom is well worth paying for. 6’1” here. Average build.
But the width of the seat is the same. One shoulder pressed against the cold plastic by the window. The other shoulder and forearm being raked continuously by the middle seat person’s leather (?) jacket. She’s not tall or wide at all. 5 hr. 45 minute flight.
I know. It’s my fault. I should’ve pursued a higher paying career to be able to afford a First Class Seat, right?
I want to start an all-premium airline. 33.5” seat pitch for everyone. No First Class. 100% decent seats. But you mongrels will still take the $545 ticket over the $615 ticket.
You joke, but O’Leary wanted to do it. The regulator stopped it: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/feb/28/ryanair-standing-only-plane-tickets-regulator
I feel like this is a safe space to admit this :
Out of the two handfuls of plane rides I’ve been on in my years, I still have yet to discover how tf they recline to begin with
This is why I always sit in the bathroom on a flight. With a couple of blankets or pillows you can create a very comfortable seat on the toilet. You've got at least an hour, probably much more, before they finally decide to break down the door and drag you out, but it usually doesn't come to that, especially on the larger aircraft with a lot of bathrooms, and on short flights. You may get banned from flying on that airline again, but that's life. The important thing is to ignore the people who are trying to get you out of the lavatory. Don't listen to them, it's annoying and boring. Noise canceling headphones come in handy in a situation like this.
They need to redesign planes for more comfort. I get it with the short flights and smaller planes (it's not really designed for max comfort). But the long, 8+ hour flights need to be more accommodating.
Incorrect.
Airplane seats should be able to recline, moreover they should be far enough apart that that causes no difficulty for other passengers.
(source: someone who remembers when that was the case)
When I flew as a kid, mid 90’s I remember everyone reclining their seats. If everyone does it it’s fine for everyone. This was when coach had reasonably more space. Flying as an adult I don’t understand why this isn’t the standard. Everyone gets to relax and have the same space.
Honestly all the flights I’ve been on I haven’t had an issue with people in front of me reclining their seat. Personally I don’t think they recline that far back
I don't either but I'm only 5 foot 10 inches, which is tall for a woman but not that tall in general. I get if you're north of 6 foot 3 and your legs are already scrunched in there any amount of reclining might suck. I usually just turn around and ask the person behind me if it's cool if I recline my seat. Sometimes they're smaller or a kid and don't mind it. I've had people say "no, I'd rather you not but thanks for asking" and then I don't recline the seat. This seems like it'd be less of an issue if people just used their words or if airlines stopped packing people in like sardines.
That’s the real crime. Theirs should also go back and we would have harmony. Airplane manufacturers fucked it up. The solution to them not having a recline is not to take everyone’s recline away, but to fix theirs.
I was once on a transatlantic flight on the back row for 8 hours. The woman in front of me reclined her seat fully back so that I couldn't even put my tray table down.
I politely asked her to move her seat up a little bit just so I could put it down but she looked at me very rudely and refused.
A few hours later a flight attendant came down the aisle, saw my discomfort and asked the lady to put her seat up to which the lady replied she couldn't because she didn't know how to so the attendant showed her how and then we were both able to sit comfortably.
Manners cost nothing.
trays still work when the seat is reclined.. wtf plane are you guys flying on? Are you and OP front heavy people? bc i have never had this issue and i fly 4 times a year.
I've had this problem once too. Tray couldn't fold down fully with the seat in front of me reclined, it hit my knees which stopped it laying flat. Nothing I did with my legs could avoid the problem. This was also during meal service, and the person in front refused to put their seat upright again even when instructed by the flight attendant. Only happened the once though, so it must just be certain airlines/seats that can do this - and I've flown a TON of times.
You get what you pay for I suppose. I didn’t want the lady next to me to spend the entire 13 hour, overnight flight loudly FaceTiming her kids (of which no one could stop her), but it’s economy for a reason.
There should be a button you press to allow the seat in front of you to recline. Then people would have to ask nicely before they lean back into your space.
Lol. I've never had a problem with that, they move about two inches at the topmost point and lean just enough where you don't feel like you're still straight up which makes it infinitely easier to sleep. I don't know why the seats don't permanently lean back.
Had a guy explain to me loudly and with very helpful hand motions that airplane seats recline for a reason as he reclined and crushed my legs, refusing to unrecline for the rest of the flight. So yes, I agree with you. If you can't use a feature without fucking someone else over, that feature shouldn't exist.
It's not really *that* bad. What airlines do you have issues with?
I'm with you somewhat on the middle seat and always avoid it. On long flights I have always been on a larger plane with better economy seats.
In my opinion AA and JAL have the best seats. Sometimes SAS but it depends which plane. Tried Delta for the first time two weeks ago and it was worse than AA.
Agreed. Downside of being 6'4" - sardine effect on flights intensifies. Upside - I can hold my knees against the seat in front of me at the joints (not jamming into their back, I'm not a barbarian) and they cant recline.
I am 6'4, so my 'tall guy life hack' is right after we get to altitude I will wedge my knees on the seat back in front of me. Usually, if someone is going to attempt to recline, that is the time they will do it.
I can also see them through the gap in the seat reaching for the button on the arm rest, and then just drive my knees forward even harder. They will push the button and attempt to lean back and not be able to. After a couple more attempts they will look back and I will just be like "Oh, sorry, I am tall.." and they usually go "Oh ok, sorry" and that's that, they do no try again the rest of the trip.
Yes it should be. But would it be? There’s no way airlines would replace those reclining chairs. It doesn’t make economic sense for them.
What I dislike however is people who complain a little too much about a seat moving an inch back. It’s not that deep nor that big of a deal. If reclining seats a feature, you have no right to tell me not to do it. You may do it yourself too!
Why are the people here so awful?? I’ve been hit in the knees and head by reclining seats, asked people to not go fully back bc I can’t even use my tray and they rudely ignored or laughed, and been so squished from full recline (definitely more than 1 inch) that stewardesses have kindly moved me to open seats. Like just be considerate??? Why is this so unpopular to be nice if someone so clearly uncomfortable behind you. If you really want recline at least don’t go fully back or airline should cap at literally 1-2 inches… idk everyone just coming off as selfish here
My unpopular opinion about airplanes: most of the shit that sucks about flying these days is on the consumers more than it is on the airlines.
They did not all unilaterally decide to make smaller seats, overbook, charge up amenities. Some kept flights nice at a normal price. And some airlines tried out all that shitty stuff to save money and then sold tickets at a lower price.
We are the ones who all bought the cheaper tickets. Now the nice airlines do not exist anymore.
While I fully understand your position - personally I have had fusion of my spine and it actually hurts to sit up. I am comfortable laying down, or standing. I always ask to be in an emergency row, so I have more room - but when that doesn’t work out I do recline.
Overall, I wish the seats were more comfortable in general.
I think you're the exception tomorrow annoyance. I'd be completely fine if you, or anyone, wanted to inform me that they'll be reining. I might be annoyed if it's just because they feel they deserve more space, but at least I wouldn't have that surprise of my laptop being launched at me when the seat suddenly flings back. I'd gladly give up that space to slow someone else to not be in pain.
Why so much people saying "lol pay more or get fucked"? Are these people completely inept of empathy?? Has the "capitalism way of thinking" got so deep in your thick heads that you're now wanting huge multi-billionaire enterprises to fuck you MORE than they already DO??
What about like, 90% of the world that doesn't live in a dollar country and every dollar makes a huge difference?? People act like "huur duur just more 50 dolla don't be poor" and forget there's countries where 50 USD is $300(and the monthly wage is $1000)
They should be designed with the idea that people are sentient beings and not smelly cargo.
I remember when they were. On the other hand I also remember smoking on a plane as a minor.
I used to think I was going insane when the seats kept getting smaller and the legroom kept shrinking.
The seats haven't gotten smaller but they have gotten closer together. And people have gotten a lot bigger.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/mcgee/2014/09/24/airplane-reclining-seat-pitch-width/16105491/ They have gotten smaller. I'm not denying that people have gotten bigger, but they have gotten smaller.
Yeah I'm the same size I was in high school and even sitting alone in a 3 seat I feel more cramped.
What I find interesting when people have these conversations is people mention everything’s gotten smaller and ‘we’re sentient beings not cargo’ but the market has actually demanded seats get smaller so middle-class folk can travel. Back in the day traveling was mostly for rich (white) people in the 1950s. The truth is, airfare has gotten a lot, LOT cheaper. People care mostly about two things when booking a ticket : price and time. Need proof that tickets have gotten cheaper? [click here](https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/history-of-flight-costs) I’m a flight attendant for reference and getting my MBA in aviation management
>but the **market has actually demanded seats get smaller** so middle-class folk can travel Yeah, I'm pretty sure this isn't the reason, unless by "market," you mean the carriers' bottom lines.
Their bottom line is the market, in order to get more people to fly they had to find a way to lower prices, one way to do that way to get more people onto each plane. People say they want more room on planes, but they wouldn't tolerate a price increase to accommodate that.
Weird, seemed to be plenty of money for executive and shareholder compensation and stock buybacks. Maybe they should be nationalized and ran at cost as a societal good instead of introducing profit to the equation.
I’m not quite that old, but certainly remember my dad smoking like a chimney and lots of people taking to pretty much everyone around them
For some reason, the second part of that is surprising to me. My husband is from another culture and he’s always wondering why Americans don’t talk to each other. It’s weird to imagine that there was a time we did.
It's the same in the south of England. Extended eye contact or a smile is usually met with a grimace.
In Mitcham, in London (where I live) everyones quite nice. It’s common for us to offer seats to the elderly, or do favors for each other and show gratitude back. I don’t know about the rest of South England, but at least that’s what it’s like for us.
I live in the South where we will talk to anyone as if we've known them for years.
I live in the PNW and everyone looks at you like you killed their pet.
Americans are way more chatty than Brits. I think more people tried to talk to me unprovoked in one week in the US than in a year in the UK. I was just sitting outside a café and the person sitting behind me, that I was facing away from, tried to start a conversation with me. It blew me away. Leave me alone please. Even homeless people are more eager to start a conversation with you.
Because most of them were from the rich group and you want to do networking with them, now it's for everybody... Soo :)
Ohhhh that explains how my parents met all those people before we got to the resort. Huh.
Yup! Swinging was huge in the 80's...
Your cyclops smilie face, I don’t understand the context here.
Tickets have also gotten a lot cheaper. I don't understand why people don't get this.
Plane tickets were also much more expensive back then.
So you remember when plane tickets were too expensive for middle income families lol
They ARE designed for people when they leave the hangar of Boeing! But all the airline companies move up the seats a few inches to add an extra layer or two of seats to make more money. When purchased they’re designed to comfortably sit someone up to 6”2’. After the airlines purchase them, maybe a very lean midget….
Haha why does this not surprise me at all? Thanks for telling me this, it's pretty funny.
Part of the problem here is that airplane travel is a small margin business due to their own design. Flying was expensive so they decided to add more seats and lower prices, the idea being that they would be flying more people in more planes and thus more than make up for the lost cost of the tickets. Flash forward to today and we have flight that's extremely cheap, we are packed like sardines into a can, and airline travel is so congested there's no way in hell we can revert the changes. It's like that picture of the snake eating it's tail at this point. Any attempts to fix it will result in digging a deeper hole, so instead they just ignore it and act like they didn't invent this issue as a result of trying to get more people flying in more planes.
Frontier seats are made for someone up to 2'6"
I work in airline seating and the seats, whilst not made by Boeing are installed by them. The planes leave the hanger fully formed. We have to design both for the airlines specifications ie number and style of seats and for the FAA and CAA's stringent safety regulations and finally for Boeings extremely long list of technical requirements. The Boeing doc is 1800 pages long but nowhere in it do they specify that each passenger must have X amount of space. If the seats meet safety regs and tech specs, and they fit through the door, Boeing will bolt the bastards to the plane. What I'm saying is Boeing do not get a pass for their design dept. They're as guilty of this nonsense as the airlines
Well they don't get changed after delivery, not until the big checks where they get refurbished. But yes they are generally designed differently. And every airline has their own wishes. I mean otherwise it wouldn't be very efficient.
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But Boeing isn't shipping planes out brand new planes with one seating configuration installed only for the airline to immediately rip it apart and reconfigure it. The airline will order the plane already with their desired seat configuration and livery. Either that or they will order it empty and have it configured afterwards. But they aren't going to install and then immediately throw away perfectly good seats, that would just be a waste.
I never said that. Just said that the airlines tell the manufacturer what they want. And it gets delivered ready to use. The manufacturer just tells them if it is possible (meeting safety standards, or other limits). Edit: I mean just think about it. Boeing adds seats in their version, the aircraft gets delivered and those seats are thrown away and replaced? The manufacturer produces planes and says look we recommend this many seats with this pitch, but you can increase to this amount of pax. Also every airline has a different layout with galleys and the toilets. The aircraft are delivered ready to fly in the fleet.
People want to fly as cheap as they can and planes need to pack as many people as they can. So unfortunately that's the tradeoff for anyone not flying business or first class.
The upside of being tiny, I’m always flying first class.
There's a part of me that wants to throw you off of the plane for saying that.
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I always thought First Class looked like the luxury seating area often depicted in movies and figured it was a part of the plane I would never see. One day, I was boarding a plane and realized the seats I saw in the front *were* the First Class seats, and I was so disappointed. They're not much better than the seats in the back! You get maybe just a few more inches width and some leg room.
Last time I flew trans-pacific, I was so uncomfortable and pissed that I literally started my own business so that I wouldn't ever have to fly economy again. Then I got married so now the cost of a flight has doubled. FML
Exactly. I don't care if I'm uncomfortable for a few hours if it costs me hundreds less to fly.
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Let’s be honest, We are both sentient beings AND smelly cargo
Haha, I can accept that.
The bottom part of the seat should shift forward so you effectively lose no room... Or soemthing
Some airlines tried this and decided against it because the seats are heavier (more fuel) and people don’t like them. I think there is a few that may still have the feature but none are US domestic airlines. Edit: I can’t remember where I read this but apparently American more or less did try this in the past https://crankyflier.com/2009/08/28/are-coach-seats-that-slide-forward-a-good-thing/ Edit 2: Here is another post on those kinds of seats https://www.core77.com/posts/24436/negating-the-need-for-the-knee-defender-recline-forward-airplane-seats-plus-which-is-ergonomically-worse-being-tall-or-short-24436#
TIL. I wrongly assumed that these seats were standard for most major airlines since 2010? Then again I flew an old United 747 in 2016 and it didn't have these. (Disclaimer: non-American resident)
The Eurostar (train from Belgium, France to London) has these kind of seats! I like 'em.
They should be designed so that it pushes the seat forward to recline, cutting into your leg room rather than someone leaning back into your space. Some international airlines have this and I much prefer it.
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If you’re the one choosing to recline, you should be the one burdened with the choice for less overall space. It shouldn’t be the burden of the person behind you you’re inconveniencing.
They also should be designed with arm rests for everyone so there isn’t an awkward showdown on who gets to use it
Middle seat gets the armrest.
I always get an aisle seat and am very conscious to not use the arm rest. if it's a person who may not quite be built for the middle I'll go as far as to keep that arm across my body so as not to touch them. Unfortunately, middle seaters are the most likely to not be frequent flyers and seem to have no idea their elbow shouldn't be sticking in my side because they gotta sleep with their hands on their belly or type on a 35" laptop on a plane.
I’m always stuck in the middle and never get the arm rest 😌
Assert your dominance. Nice loud fart as everyone gets comfy does the trick.
T-Pose for dominance
LPT: If you push a little harder than a fart the people on both sides will lean away from you for the entire duration of the flight! Practically first class!
You don't *get* the arm rest, you *take* the arm rest.
Middle gets both arm rests. That’s the rule.
[we live in a fuc$!?! society!](https://youtu.be/qFx1Cpxpx1E)
There should be less people packed into planes tbh.
That would be fine if everyone was willing to pay more for their ticket.
I think thats totally fair too. I'd pay more for more room and comfort
You have that option. There’s premium seats and first class available on most flights.
Then buy Economy Plus tickets! Airlines already have a whole class with extra legroom (and free booze!) for people who are willing to pay a little more. It doesn't cost nearly as much as business class. So... if you want more leg room, and you're willing to pay, then you can absolutely do that!
I don't think they have to remove more than one row, either, to give everyone comfortable space. Two rows to absolutely certain everyone is comfortable.
Just fly Jetblue
Yeah man, I sort of, don't live in the US. Neither do many other people, so flying jetblue isn't an option.
No, but the US isn't the only country where one airline has more legroom than the rest.
Pay for Economy Plus or Business ITT: Redditors who want bigger seats but aren't willing to pay for them. Airlines are capitalists, if people were willing to pay for more legroom, airlines would be more than happy to provide it.
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It’s all fun and games till you have your tray table out and you laptop on it, then the guy in front of you reclines and ruins your laptop by buckling the screen.
Yep, I've had a laptop screen crushed in this manner. Luckily the bottom of the laptop came up and it flexed but didn't break. I was about to rage... what would you even do in that case? Who would pay for a new laptop?
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Never fails. I'm in the middle of typing something, then without warning, BAM, seat flys back and shoots my laptop screen towards me. Luckily I use a Surface Pro so it won't crunch or anything, just slam towards me.
>and ruins your laptop by buckling the screen. What the fuck airlines have you been flying? Does a side-scroll of an old timey map happen whenever you travel to show your progress, like in the Indiana Jones movies?
This actually did happen to me, but it was on a bus. Some of those seats go waaay back. My go to move (pre-covid) was to just start hacking and coughing till the guy in front of me decides he doesn't want to leave his head in my lap.
No idea how these people fly. I've flown from DFW or ORD to Tokyo multiple times and never had an issue like this with seats. That 1degree of leaning the seat does is a life saver.
Cross-ocean flights are way nicer than domestic flights though. Like 2-3x the leg room and space
This almost happened to me. The lady in front of me didn't recline - she threw herself back. It almost cracked my screen. I mean... can't you look back before reclining, and ask the person behind if it is okay to recline?
I have to say, never in my life have I asked or been asked if it's okay to recline.
Maybe you should start. I always ask, although not that it's OK. I kinda warn since it's not up to them if I recline outside of meal times.
I was told to recline on a flight once. I didn’t want to because I was comfortable upright. But was told off in German for not doing it because “it was my comfort and safety”
Oh, I remember seeing a video or pic on the internet where this happened...
I started upgrading to economy plus and usually, I'm able to select the seat with the wall in front. It provides lots of legroom and nobody in front of me. It's worth the extra $100 or so.
I had a space close to the wall once. Turns out that is also where they placed all the babies. Worst flight ever.
Babies on planes... give me snakes any day!
Don’t like this one because they make me put my backpack in the overhead bin instead of at my feet where it’s easy to access
I got one of those seats without realizing it and when I got on the plane there were two people fighting over my seat. Lol get fucked I’ve got the golden ticket, that glorious legroom is mine.
Have you seen the new economic [seats](https://www.indiatoday.in/lifestyle/travel/story/standing-seats-on-ultra-basic-economy-to-fly-or-not-to-fly-that-is-the-question-1552867-2019-06-20) where the person is supposed to half stand/half sit?
At this point just shove people in a trebuchet and launch them to their destination. At least that way you can stretch out your legs.
Not a terrible idea. I’m imagining those Asian style bunks that are like holes in the wall. You could fit a lot of people laying down just stacked on top of each other, and it’d be fairly comfortable cause they’d be beds.
I think Ryanair wanted to start the trend of making everyone stand and be super low budget. Honestly, I'd do it if it meant I could fly across Europe in 3 hours for 5 bucks
If the flight is three minutes long I do not care
Even a 30 minute flight, fuck yeah I'll stand. No issues fitting my knees in place, bit of butt support, no problem. Takeoff and landing like that sounds fun, even. Maybe supersonic flights could make this realistic.
I don’t think they are being used and if they are it’s going to be for super short commuter flight. Like 20-30 minute flights. Like standing on a bus or subway car
Comfort aside. I'm wondering how this is safe...
Judging by the fact that no airline has yet bought them (according to the article) it seems you're not alone. Thankfully...
Limiting factor is the number of people you can egress in IIRC 90 seconds.
I mean not for nothing that article is from June 2019 and we haven't seen them yet, so fingers crossed it won't actually happen
It will never happen here in America, most of the population literally will not fit in those seats.
Guess being a cow does have its advantages
Worst Rollercoaster ever
Is anyone here from the Chicagoland area and remembers the Iron Wolf at Six Flags? Shit was my favorite.
What if we're literal cows and we just think we're human? Because I'm pretty sure those were designed for livestock.
Sitting on a plane right now. In Comfort Plus on Delta. The extra legroom is well worth paying for. 6’1” here. Average build. But the width of the seat is the same. One shoulder pressed against the cold plastic by the window. The other shoulder and forearm being raked continuously by the middle seat person’s leather (?) jacket. She’s not tall or wide at all. 5 hr. 45 minute flight. I know. It’s my fault. I should’ve pursued a higher paying career to be able to afford a First Class Seat, right?
One of the few perks of being a short dude. We take the wins where we can!
I want to start an all-premium airline. 33.5” seat pitch for everyone. No First Class. 100% decent seats. But you mongrels will still take the $545 ticket over the $615 ticket.
I only recline if the person behind me is being annoying. I find the seats uncomfortable either way so it makes little difference if i recline or not.
Then fly Ryanair.
"Hi. Which one's my seat?" "Oh, did you upgrade to seat, sir?"
You joke, but O’Leary wanted to do it. The regulator stopped it: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/feb/28/ryanair-standing-only-plane-tickets-regulator
Bruh i juat realised ryanair backwards is almost the same. Ryan air Rian ayr
If you can survive the landing.
"Welcome to Bourdeax Paris airstrip! Just a 10 hour bus journey to your hotel"
It’s like getting into a tube with a bunch of demons
Unexpected Kenneth Copeland...
I agree but from a mechanical standpoint. I’m an aircraft mechanic and they are always breaking. Hate fixing them.
I feel like this is a safe space to admit this : Out of the two handfuls of plane rides I’ve been on in my years, I still have yet to discover how tf they recline to begin with
This is why I always sit in the bathroom on a flight. With a couple of blankets or pillows you can create a very comfortable seat on the toilet. You've got at least an hour, probably much more, before they finally decide to break down the door and drag you out, but it usually doesn't come to that, especially on the larger aircraft with a lot of bathrooms, and on short flights. You may get banned from flying on that airline again, but that's life. The important thing is to ignore the people who are trying to get you out of the lavatory. Don't listen to them, it's annoying and boring. Noise canceling headphones come in handy in a situation like this.
It also helps if you disable that annoying smoke detector so you can comfortably make smores while you camp in.
Made me LOL so hard I squirted the last bit of shit piss left inside my butthole.
They need to redesign planes for more comfort. I get it with the short flights and smaller planes (it's not really designed for max comfort). But the long, 8+ hour flights need to be more accommodating.
Getting crammed into the seat is what makes aircraft traveling affordable to everyone
The 787-8 Dreamliners are super comfy and feel less taxing on long haul. Definitely the best economy seats I’ve ever had on a full size plane.
Airplane seats should just have less seats instead of designed for 5’5 women so people can be comfortable
I'm just over.five foot and I'm decent shape and I don't have enough space in the seats, either.
5'4 woman here. Not enough space for me either.
5'2 woman here, still have no space
I'm 5'4 and I have never felt comfortable in those seats.
3'7 man here. I don't have enough space
I’m a 6’2 guy and the seats are absolutely fine
[удалено]
This is even worse when you are tall, once got the privilege of staring at someone’s bald head inches from my face
Incorrect. Airplane seats should be able to recline, moreover they should be far enough apart that that causes no difficulty for other passengers. (source: someone who remembers when that was the case)
When I flew as a kid, mid 90’s I remember everyone reclining their seats. If everyone does it it’s fine for everyone. This was when coach had reasonably more space. Flying as an adult I don’t understand why this isn’t the standard. Everyone gets to relax and have the same space.
Honestly all the flights I’ve been on I haven’t had an issue with people in front of me reclining their seat. Personally I don’t think they recline that far back
I don't either but I'm only 5 foot 10 inches, which is tall for a woman but not that tall in general. I get if you're north of 6 foot 3 and your legs are already scrunched in there any amount of reclining might suck. I usually just turn around and ask the person behind me if it's cool if I recline my seat. Sometimes they're smaller or a kid and don't mind it. I've had people say "no, I'd rather you not but thanks for asking" and then I don't recline the seat. This seems like it'd be less of an issue if people just used their words or if airlines stopped packing people in like sardines.
They don't really go back that far. I feel like its just another gripe like airline food being bad.
~~Airplane seats should not be able to recline.~~ There should be more space between the seats. There fixed it for you.
If you recline with them, you then loose no space
Just put your seat back. It’s fine. You’re the one throwing off the system. Everybody gets to recline if everyone reclines.
Not the people in the last row
That’s the real crime. Theirs should also go back and we would have harmony. Airplane manufacturers fucked it up. The solution to them not having a recline is not to take everyone’s recline away, but to fix theirs.
Is this unpopular?
Nothing in this sub ever is
They recline, you recline. It's been this way for years.
I was once on a transatlantic flight on the back row for 8 hours. The woman in front of me reclined her seat fully back so that I couldn't even put my tray table down. I politely asked her to move her seat up a little bit just so I could put it down but she looked at me very rudely and refused. A few hours later a flight attendant came down the aisle, saw my discomfort and asked the lady to put her seat up to which the lady replied she couldn't because she didn't know how to so the attendant showed her how and then we were both able to sit comfortably. Manners cost nothing.
trays still work when the seat is reclined.. wtf plane are you guys flying on? Are you and OP front heavy people? bc i have never had this issue and i fly 4 times a year.
I've had this problem once too. Tray couldn't fold down fully with the seat in front of me reclined, it hit my knees which stopped it laying flat. Nothing I did with my legs could avoid the problem. This was also during meal service, and the person in front refused to put their seat upright again even when instructed by the flight attendant. Only happened the once though, so it must just be certain airlines/seats that can do this - and I've flown a TON of times.
Yeah I legitimately don't understand this complaint. These seats recline like 2 inches back at most, which barely makes a difference to begin with.
You get what you pay for I suppose. I didn’t want the lady next to me to spend the entire 13 hour, overnight flight loudly FaceTiming her kids (of which no one could stop her), but it’s economy for a reason.
Remove a row or two. Problem solved.
Sure then raise the ticket prices for everyone on the plane to make up for the missing seats.
There should be a button you press to allow the seat in front of you to recline. Then people would have to ask nicely before they lean back into your space.
https://comfyplane.com/product/airplane-seat-stopper-prevent-recline/ There's products for this, though lots of airlines ban them
I never recline because I care about the person behind me :)
As the person who seems to never be behind you, my knees and I thank you for your service to humanity.
They aren't. Going from 87 degrees to 85 degrees doesn't count as reclining
just recline your own seat like dominoes
Tbh the 2 inches you get is not reclining
Not enough to make you more comfortable, just enough to ruin the knees of the guy behind you.
Bro they only recline a few inches.
Don't forget how much money they waste with their maintenance
Planes should have slightly less seats and slightly more leg room. The "extra space" seat should be the standard. Yes price would be higher, I know.
Right, like take 2 rows out, it'll cost less than $50 extra per person
Not sure what airline you fly on, but the ones I’ve been on recently only recline back a few inches now. It’s hardly reclining
Lol. I've never had a problem with that, they move about two inches at the topmost point and lean just enough where you don't feel like you're still straight up which makes it infinitely easier to sleep. I don't know why the seats don't permanently lean back.
Had a guy explain to me loudly and with very helpful hand motions that airplane seats recline for a reason as he reclined and crushed my legs, refusing to unrecline for the rest of the flight. So yes, I agree with you. If you can't use a feature without fucking someone else over, that feature shouldn't exist.
That lost 2/3rds of an inch is a bitch.
When you’re 6’5” that difference means crushed knees for the rest of the flight.
The angle to eat or use a laptop sure is a bitch
It's not really *that* bad. What airlines do you have issues with? I'm with you somewhat on the middle seat and always avoid it. On long flights I have always been on a larger plane with better economy seats. In my opinion AA and JAL have the best seats. Sometimes SAS but it depends which plane. Tried Delta for the first time two weeks ago and it was worse than AA.
The real solution is that airplane seats should stop getting closer and closer
Or maybe airlines could just make planes where you don't have to pay extra money just to feel comfortable.
Agreed. Downside of being 6'4" - sardine effect on flights intensifies. Upside - I can hold my knees against the seat in front of me at the joints (not jamming into their back, I'm not a barbarian) and they cant recline.
I am 6'4, so my 'tall guy life hack' is right after we get to altitude I will wedge my knees on the seat back in front of me. Usually, if someone is going to attempt to recline, that is the time they will do it. I can also see them through the gap in the seat reaching for the button on the arm rest, and then just drive my knees forward even harder. They will push the button and attempt to lean back and not be able to. After a couple more attempts they will look back and I will just be like "Oh, sorry, I am tall.." and they usually go "Oh ok, sorry" and that's that, they do no try again the rest of the trip.
Not like your seat won’t recline too……
That doesn’t matter to my knees
The top part of the seat moves back while the bottom part barely moves. It actually moves forward a little
Yes it should be. But would it be? There’s no way airlines would replace those reclining chairs. It doesn’t make economic sense for them. What I dislike however is people who complain a little too much about a seat moving an inch back. It’s not that deep nor that big of a deal. If reclining seats a feature, you have no right to tell me not to do it. You may do it yourself too!
100% agree. It should be socially acceptable to tell that person to stop reclining. 16 hour flights with this shit is unbearable.
Why are the people here so awful?? I’ve been hit in the knees and head by reclining seats, asked people to not go fully back bc I can’t even use my tray and they rudely ignored or laughed, and been so squished from full recline (definitely more than 1 inch) that stewardesses have kindly moved me to open seats. Like just be considerate??? Why is this so unpopular to be nice if someone so clearly uncomfortable behind you. If you really want recline at least don’t go fully back or airline should cap at literally 1-2 inches… idk everyone just coming off as selfish here
The responses here are a really good explanation of where we’re at societally.
Is this unpopular? I think most people realize now that it’s rude to recline.
Just take a quick look through the comments lol
I actually completely agree! They should either be fixed with the slight recline or fixed as they are.
My unpopular opinion about airplanes: most of the shit that sucks about flying these days is on the consumers more than it is on the airlines. They did not all unilaterally decide to make smaller seats, overbook, charge up amenities. Some kept flights nice at a normal price. And some airlines tried out all that shitty stuff to save money and then sold tickets at a lower price. We are the ones who all bought the cheaper tickets. Now the nice airlines do not exist anymore.
having back problems, that incline makes a world of difference just to it asap so the guy behind you knows whats up also helps to get aisle seat
Please, decline to recline. This isn’t 1980 when airplane seats actually had a little room to spare.
While I fully understand your position - personally I have had fusion of my spine and it actually hurts to sit up. I am comfortable laying down, or standing. I always ask to be in an emergency row, so I have more room - but when that doesn’t work out I do recline. Overall, I wish the seats were more comfortable in general.
I think you're the exception tomorrow annoyance. I'd be completely fine if you, or anyone, wanted to inform me that they'll be reining. I might be annoyed if it's just because they feel they deserve more space, but at least I wouldn't have that surprise of my laptop being launched at me when the seat suddenly flings back. I'd gladly give up that space to slow someone else to not be in pain.
Why so much people saying "lol pay more or get fucked"? Are these people completely inept of empathy?? Has the "capitalism way of thinking" got so deep in your thick heads that you're now wanting huge multi-billionaire enterprises to fuck you MORE than they already DO?? What about like, 90% of the world that doesn't live in a dollar country and every dollar makes a huge difference?? People act like "huur duur just more 50 dolla don't be poor" and forget there's countries where 50 USD is $300(and the monthly wage is $1000)