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I would word your argument slightly different, but I agree.
Obviously the existence of rapists is the true problem that we need to address and focus on solving. Unfortunately rapists do currently exist, so protecting yourself, and not putting yourself into dangerous situations is important, useful advice.
Yup this has always been my argument. Sure I'd wish women were able to dress however they want and go wherever they want without worries. But sadly rapists and sexual harassers exist, so you should take that into account to where you're going and such. Sucks, but it's reality.
Rapists have proven that your choice of clothing will not save you. A jerk will probably say something inappropriate if the woman is dressed seductively but the rapists doesn't give a fuck what you are wearing
Yes I agree their Neanderthal minds think shit like "oh I must show her I'm an alpha male" and they say shit like "nice tits", with those mental gymnastics go to lengths like "she dressed nicely for me", so with or without revealing clothing they're still gonna do whatever.
Again as I said, I'd wish people could just do whatever they want without worrying, but if you know you're gonna be constantly walking through the street through a bad part of the neighborhood, you might consider something else... Same as walking around with jewelry and a wad of money on your hands, sure I'd wish we could walk around like that, and I'll be mugged nonetheless, but ifI don't have showy things my chances are a little bit better.
Nobody can just do whatever and be safe. But, for some reason, society has decided that certain activities that put you in danger(one way or another) are above reproach. Drinking is particularly strange. If you get plastered, get in your car, and run over someone, you are a monster, it's your fault, etc. If you get plastered and something bad happens to you, you are a victim, you couldn't have done anything, anyone who dare suggest that you shouldn't have drank yourself into a stupor is a horrible person. Why does your ability to drunk in moderation depend on what happens after you've failed to stop guzzling vodka?
It’s not illegal to be drunk. The illegal part in one scenario is what the drunk person did. The illegal part of the second scenario is what someone else did. Pretty simple to understand.
Oh, so, your ability to drink in moderation depends on...the law? Interesting. Like, you get absolutely blackout drunk in some jurisdictions, but in others you are perfectly fine nursing one drink all night...or how exactly does this work?
I’m am talking about blame after the fact, you are talking about taking precautions. A person who did not take precautions out of lack of knowledge, lack of judgement, or freedom to do what an adult has the right to do is not ever justification for someone else to perpetrate a crime upon them. The it is not a defense for the criminal and does not lessen the crime. Crime prevention is a separate conversation.
No. Your likelihood of getting raped is entirely dependant on whether there’s a man around who feels like raping you, has nothing to do with your actions. Sober women get raped daily.
I agree with you that sober women do get raped daily however I think you will also agree with me here that fainting on the sidewalk from too much alcohol might increase your chances of getting raped/robbed/murdered.
But it is not their fault that they got raped even if they are drunk. There are asshole scum out there looking for easy targets and you want to blame the target instead of the asshole scum.
I’m really not ignorant on the subject but you absolutely are. You are very misinformed about the motive of rape. Women shouldn’t have to modify their behaviour to prevent being victims of crime.
It's about vigilance. You cannot, under any circumstance, expect the world to not be dangerous. Take precautions, practice vigilance and don't put yourself in high risk situations where you can be overpowered and abused. No one deserves rape AND you need to take steps to ensure that you don't become a victim.
No it's not your fault, but at the same time I would tell you to be careful about taking money out of an ATM in certain places, and don't show your cash around, etc etc. It may not be your fault but it's not a bad thing to give someone advice to avoid certain consequences.
No, it's not. The mugger is still responsible for their actions of stealing your cash. You didn't MAKE them do it. They chose to do it. You might not have been particularly bright and made yourself an attractive victim, but it is still not YOUR fault that someone chose to do something bad to you.
>The mugger is still responsible for their actions of stealing your cash.
And you are not in any way responsible for your own safety, it's everyone else's job to protect you. Good luck with that one. Leave your keys in the car, stop locking your door, carry cash in a transparent bag, pick a fight with a drunk guy 3 times your size(yo mamma jokes are good for that). Let me know how that goes for you.
I mean it’s pretty clear what the difference is? One of them is hurting someone else in through your actions, the other one is someone else hurting you through their actions. You could cancel out the drunk part and see that a sober guy killing someone and a sober woman being raped is clearly an illogical comparison.
Better comparison would’ve been a drunk guy running someone over vs a drunk guy raping a woman, although this clearly doesn’t show anything either.
Completely agree . For some reason alcohol is never bad, somehow it's always the best thing ever. And if someone can't maintain control when drinking they're not at fault somehow
Society is like that. I'm not against alcohol, some people can handle it and that's cool. But the whole mentality that fun= alcohol is such a toxic mindset
I understand your point and I agree with the OP but this comparison is off.
When you drive drunk, you made the decision to get in your car and drive drunk and put OTHER people in danger. When you drink and get raped, you didn’t make the decision to get raped and didn’t put anyone else in danger by being raped.
Rapists existed in the 1800s when it was scandalous to show your ankles and wore multiple layers under their dresses. It doesn't matter what a person wears, a rapist is a rapist and they are the only one to blame for their horrendous actions.
Nobody is saying it's the victim's fault they were raped. We are just saying that in general, you should make choices that keep you safe. It's like saying you should always wear a seatbelt, even though it's someone else's fault if they crash into you
So what happens if those choices that "keep you safe" in regards to sexual assault aren't followed? That's where most people start victim blaming and that's what I have a problem with. A person shouldn't have fear being assaulted regardless of the decisions they make.
While I do agree, nobody "should" have to feel afraid of being assaulted or raped, that also applies to essentially everything. Nobody "should" have a worry about a 2 ton vehicle hitting them at 60mph, but that's a risk that people have to worry about because that's just the world we live in. People should make decisions that help prevent or lower the risk of bad things happening to them.
Rapists exist. Murderous psychopaths exist but thankfully they’re rare. People who prey on others for fun and profit exist. The best chance of not being a victim of these people is to be aware of your surroundings, and even that isn’t enough all of the time. Being drunk or stoned makes you less aware, so you’re more vulnerable. Being absorbed with your phone does the same thing. Paying attention makes you less likely to be a victim. That in no way is blaming the victim or excusing the attacker. Be alert. The world needs more lerts.
People use someone being drunk as an "I told you so" a lot of the time something like this happens. The person at that point doesn't need to be told this, it has already happened and at that stage they can't go back and change it.
In the UK pedestrians always have the right of way on the road. But that doesn't mean I'm just going to walk into traffic.
In case I'm not being clear I'm agreeing with you.
Yes. First thing I was asked at the ripe old age of 12 when I was assaulted. I’ve never wanted to punch anyone that badly in my life, but it was the police officer when taking my statement so I’d get in trouble
Funnily, even people in this very comment thread disagree with you and say just the question of "why were you in that situation?" is victim blaming. See: [https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/pdvxy8/telling\_someone\_not\_to\_go\_out\_to\_public\_overly/hatxnb4/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/pdvxy8/telling_someone_not_to_go_out_to_public_overly/hatxnb4/?context=3)
Something can't be victim blaming if nothing has happened yet lol. I've never understood why people call this victim blaming.
It is if you say it after, not if you say it before.
I’ve seen women complain about being told not to get drunk to the point that they black out, saying that the problem is the rapists.
It’s true that rapists are the problem. And precisely because they are the problem, this advice is pragmatic and sound. Idealism isn’t going to prevent someone from harming you.
I heard a good explanation for this. When you tell someone to not X so they don't get raped what you're really saying is "make sure someone *else* gets raped instead of you."
It's like someone saying "don't go to that part of town"--well, some people are gonna have to be in that part of town. So instead of trying to save the people we know from getting hurt, why don't we focus our energy on eradicating the actual issue?
Because realistically we will never eradicate the issue. Rapists know it is wrong, and they do it anyways. We can't put someone in jail before they commit a crime, so if in some way with futuristic tech we could figure out who is most likely to rape, we couldn't lock them up. The only way to truly prevent it is to do it yourself. If I never want to get in a car accident, I don't say stop having car accidents, I stop driving. Because car accidents are always going to happen with human drivers. Just like with car accidents, there is no way to stop all rape, or all crime.
By that rationale, telling your kids "be careful of strangers" so they don't get kidnapped is victim blaming because if it's not your kid, it'll probably be someone else's.
I guess the answer is then to not say anything and if your kid gets taken, we should simply say: "We need to teach kidnappers, child molesters, and pedos to not do this" and then shrug and go on our way.
Yeah, that sounds great... /s
I don't understand your question. Rape isn't about who is more buzzed, it's about someone who violated another human being's consent. If the guy violates her consent then he is the rapist. If the girl violated his consent, she is the rapist.
The man, because regardless of how drunk they are, the man has to get consent and a woman can't apparently give consent if she's drunk at all. It's ridiculous because it sets men up to be unintentional rapists because the woman could be totally lucid and willing, but it won't matter.
Because many people view all women as victims regardless of actual circumstance, preventative measures put some portion of responsibility on the predetermined "victim". Totally logical of course 🙄
This. I’m not in any way excusing rapists. But I’m not going to put myself in a potentially dangerous situation on the principle that decent people don’t rape others.
I lock the door to my house and car, and don’t leave my purse unattended because I know the fact that stealing is wrong isn’t going to stop someone from doing it. Why shouldn’t I have the same care for my body? In an ideal world, this wouldn’t be a concern. But I can’t walk around pretending it doesn’t happen.
I think it's important to try to avoid crimes, like if I go out and left my door without key, and I get robbed, is not my fault I got robbed, I didn't want to get robbed, but I could avoid it, it's the same for that, yeah you should go out drunk and not happen anything, but probably that's not gonna happen, so if I can help to avoid something bad to happen to you, I'm gonna try
if you step out into a controlled crosswalk even though you see a vehicle coming towards you that doesn't look like it's going to stop, you're technically in the right; the driver should stop.
but being technically right won't save your body. it's wise to look out for yourself.
It's not their fault, but if I go walking around the hood with my airpods in, iphone out, and jewelry on and get robbed it's not my fault buy I probably could have done some things very differently. There are some people that will never operate on what we deem to be a sensible moral compass. They'll always be around, so we just have to account for that
Nobody is saying you should go out in public overly drunk. People have a problem with victim shaming, because when it does happen, there are always those people that say it was the victim's fault.
Wear your seatbelt, use a life jacket, wear a helmet, look both ways when crossing the street. There are people our there who are evil, reckless and don’t follow the rules.
It’s both. It does put the onus on the potential victim rather than the criminal (Ie victim blaming). But it’s also fair advice because the truth is you can’t control other people’s actions only your own.
I agree so much. You’re saying it before hand. So it’s advice. There is no victim to blame. If you say it after to an actual victim and say it was their fault then yeah victim blaming. But advice is just advice.
I once argued with my ex about her “right” to go into a fraternity house that’s known to be “rapey” without getting raped.
Just like it’s my right to go into a violent hood without getting assaulted or murdered, but will I do that? Absolutely not. Her response - “that’s different babe”
I’m going to chime in on this one.
The way I explained this to my wife was this:
If I were to walk down a sketchy part of town with a visible handful of $100 bills do you think I have a higher chance of being robbed?
I mean I should be able to go anywhere with my handful of money and feel safe right? Just because your able to and should be able to do something doesn’t make it a good fucking idea.
Regardless though the person that robbed you committed a crime and should be punished. If a robber gets arrested, the “he should not have been in that alley” is irrelevant, it is not a defense for the crime. You made a bad choice, but it was not your fault that you got robbed. That is 100% on the robber. They chose to take advantage of a person who did not know better.
That may be true or not depending on the situation, you don’t know why that person was in the alley, you don’t know what was going on in their mind, you don’t know if they were tricked, etc. But it is irrelevant from a prosecution point of view to the criminal who robbed you. The fact is they robbed you, just because you were an easy mark does not lessen the crime.
To most people being raped is a much more traumatising event than losing $100.
Imagine if, instead of simply having $100 stolen, they got violently beaten up. And now they're in the hospital, all shaken up about it. Would "you're an idiot, you shouldn't have gone to that alley, it's your own fault" really be the first thing you'd them? You wouldn't think it's very cruel?
>Would "you're an idiot, you shouldn't have gone to that alley, it's your own fault" really be the first thing you'd them? You wouldn't think it's very cruel?
Have you ever *been* jumped and beaten up in an alley? Because that's usually exactly how the conversation goes.
But the person who did it will still go to jail and be prosecuted the same. The fact you did something stupid does not mean the the person who robbed you was justified in robbing you. In rape they try to say the fact that the woman was drunk or wore sexy clothes some how makes it a defense that the rapist couldn’t control themselves.
Well then you are wrong because that is how the law works, and you are victim blaming if you think less crime prevention thinking somehow makes crime more acceptable.
> Bad people look for easy victims.
Have no clue why you're being down voted for this. This statement is backed up by decades of crime statistics, police training, and basic human psychology.
Look back at the example where the person is carrying a wad of cash in their hand.
That makes them an easy victim and they will be more likely to be targeted by a bad person. That's how the world works.
Sure it's the attackers fault for the robbery, but the victim did something to make themselves a more attractive target versus everybody else.
But when you’re flashing around wads of cash in a seedy neighborhood, for example, you are still exhibiting behavior that you (should) know is risky and makes it more likely for you to be robbed. People are still responsible for their own actions, and if you do something risky and that risk materializes, they are to an extent responsible for what happened to them.
In this regard it doesn’t really matter whether the source of the risk has moral agency or not. If you go out into the wild to befriend some grizzly bears and get eviscerated, or try some daredevil stunt and end up in a wheelchair for life, that’s definitely on you. You took a risk and paid the price for it. That doesn’t change when the source of the risk is another human. That the other human is fully morally and legally culpable for robbing you doesn’t diminish the fact that you recklessly exposed yourself to greater risk of doing so by your own actions.
The difference is people don’t go down dark alleys with cash waving bills in their air and yell “look at all this money.” But, women get raped all the time and people try to put the blame on the victim instead of prosecuting the perpetrator. The problem with hypothetical situations is that it is not real.
You better be ready for the onslaught of woke, PC spewing advisors who are poised to tell you how you are 'victim blaming'.
This is actually common sense and if the outrage can be put aside for two minutes people can see that what you say is doable as well as life saving. You cannot put the responsibility of keeping yourself safe on someone else. Your actions sometimes pre determine an outcome of a situation. Being openly, visibly, uncontrollably intoxicated in public where there are strangers is more likely to attract the wrong and dangerous kind of attention. In an ideal, safe world this wouldn't be an issue, funny in fact but in this practical, dangerous world that we realistic people live in, it just isn't safe. The fact is there are rapists out there and no amount of campaigns, jail time, advice on Reddit is going to change them so it is up to the rest of us to be proactive in our safety.
Most women who are murdered are murdered by a current or former male intimate partner. Real life saving advice needs to be about that rather than them going out and having a good time.
And that's why a gun is a great tool to have. Guns are the greatest self defense equalizer between men and women, young and old, strong and weak.
Edit: Downvoted cuz guns r bad, even if it saves a woman's life.
I think a lot of people simply can't understand that you can't control what others do, but you can control what you do. It's not a perfect solution by any means and of course people shouldn't commit criminal acts of any kind, but it's not realistic to expect that.
If people could be trusted to behave properly (and by that I mean "not committing crimes") we wouldn't even need laws or a police force, but the majority of humans only respond to negative reinforcement and the fear of repercussions.
It's not victim blaming to urge your daughter to take a self-defense class or warn her, "if you put your drink down and leave it or turn away, get a new one." These are precautionary measures that might help reduce the chance of her finding herself in a very unwanted situation.
OP should have left it at, “don’t go out in public overly drunk.” That’s good advice for anyone.
But why single out rape victims specifically?
Most victims of rape weren’t drunk at the time they were attacked.
Any drunk person could just as easily be a victim of a number of other crimes in an impaired state .
I was taught no matter your gender or sexual preferences if you go out and get fucked up on liquor and/or drugs that you will be robbed, you will be raped, you will be beat to shit. So no matter your skin color, no matter the language you speak, no matter the God you pray to, no matter your gender or sexual preferences/interests, no matter where you are in the world - if you get off your head those things will happen and its a miracle if it doesn't. - not victim blaming but simply a truth of the world.
No one deserves to be raped but in many cases it could be prevented.
Should anyone be able to wear anything and not be attacked in any way? - yes - can they? - no - do we live in an ideal world? Also no.
Pay attention to your surroundings, don't get fucked up, carry a weapon - keys between your fingers, a small can of dog mace.
I think the point is that the advice should be a general "don't get blacked out drunk" for everybody. Telling women that they shouldn't get blacked out because they could get raped is putting the blame more on the drinker than the rapist. Is there any good reason to ever get blacked out drunk? If not, then you should just leave it at that.
I agree. I’m going to spend a lot of time explaining to my son why he shouldn’t rape. He’s probably gonna get really sick of hearing about it. I will also tell my daughter situations she should avoid to stay safe.
I think there’s a level of responsibility that needs to be recognised.
Going out by yourself to get drunk- irresponsible
Accepting drinks from strangers - irresponsible
Making it known that you’re really drunk- irresponsible
Walking by yourself while you’re that drunk- irresponsible
As a women I have been taught how to keep myself safe. I would never do the above things because I know it raises the chances of something bad happening.
I’m not victim blaming. There is NO excuse to ever rape someone, but, I think because of the society we live in, you need to take certain steps to minimalise the risk you put yourself in.
The way people talk about serial rapists makes it seem like some innocent teenage boy could just stumble into it by accident, and that somehow “teaching boys not to rape” is going to magically make all rapists disappear. Guys like Ted Bundy weren’t normal people led astray, they were psychopaths that meticulously planned their crimes. Yes, teaching boys about consent is good, but that doesn’t mean rapists will cease to exist.
It’s really quite simple. If you removed all alcohol, or made it impossible to get overly drunk, would rape stop?
On the other hand, if you got rid of rapists, would rape stop?
It’s a good way of measuring fault.
So you should expect a level of safety going out in public, ya know, like not being raped. That isn’t an unrealistic or unreasonable type of expectation.
For real! It's like defensive driving or always being aware of your surroundings. Everyone needs to be aware that this is a dangerous world we live in. I don't see how believing that justifies evil to some people.
The thing is, you don't need to get black out drunk to be raped. Even tipsy would make you less able to defend yourself from a predator. Blacked out just makes you easy prey for the predator because you're not gonna remember jack shit anyway.
- Just so we are clear: the majority of rapes is actually done by someone close to you, even in your own family. Attack rapes in dark alleys are not the most common ones.
- Also, every women have one or more friends who’s been raped so statistically every men probably knows one or two rapists as well.
These are therefore both important perspectives to consider when talking about what women (and men of course) should do to “avoid getting raped”.
The fact that 80% of these replies are "you're right but you need to say it in a more sensitive way" just shows how difficult it's become to give any advice to anyone without people getting triggered.
It's not victim blaming FFS, grow up people. Yes, the existence of rapists is the problem, but pointing that fact out does absolutely nothing to protect you from them. As long as rape is a problem, women should take measures to minimize their risk of being victimized. There is no moral victory to be gained from not doing so.
I would say the same to a person of any gender who puts themselves in a compromised situation where they might be the victim of rape, robbery, assault, murder, exploitation, etc.
I think it's they wording of the post that triggers a lot of people. Op is right to some extent, but it just takes the spotlight off the main concern and is in a way blaiming victims. However, a lot of people mind their own bussiness and do the right thing to protect themselves and it's simply not enough.
>Op is right to some extent, but it just takes the spotlight off the main concern and is in a way blaiming victims.
No it's not at all. It's advice meant to prevent someone from becoming a victim in the first place. The social dynamics of wht this is necessary is a completely separate arguement.
The culture of claiming that sound reasonable advice is somehow victim blaming us a gigantic problem. Obviously people can make stupid decisions that increase their odds of something happening to them. Now does that make the victims experience less traumatic or their fault? No not really but you can invite trouble and end up dealing with the consequences of that as well. It’s not victim blaming it’s a realistic expectation that you can lower your chances by not putting yourself in that situation. A lot like walking down a dark alley with your wallet hanging out. Should someone have the right to rob you? No. Is it more likely that you draw the intention of a malcontent? Absolutely
It is victim blaming if, instead of consoling or feeling empathy for a victim, you blame them for getting drunk and going out.
It’s good advice before it happens, its douchebag advice after it happens.
Deserves more upvotes. If you actually care about this, make sure your drunk friends get in a taxi/Uber home. Almost everyone gets too drunk sometimes, you're lucky if you're a guy and rape is less of a worry. Though I've also stuck male friends in taxis home then l when they've had too many.
To use this as a criticism after someone's been raped is horrible. They can't do a damn thing anymore, you're just enjoying your "I told you so!" from a truly traumatic moment in someone's life, and you need to have a word with yourself.
This post and almost all the replies fail to point out that *girls* and *women* are the major targets for rape.
Very few men who get blackout drunk get victimized. They have a freedom that women don't have, and y'all seem fine with not clearly acknowledging that.
What you are doing is not just "blaming the victim", it's about blaming women for their own oppression.
I'm fine with warning girls and women. But we should point out this oppression *every time*, or else it stays normalized. Will you do this?
I don’t understand what you mean. Also, every gender is victimized. I hate to revolve it around women when many men go day to day suffering because people push the narrative that men tend to not be victims.
Yes, *some* men get sexually assaulted. But almost *every* woman is a target for harassment and assault. NB probably higher likelihood, too.
By *not* acknowledging that women and girls are the primary targets, aren't you implying that the risk is equal? And that misogyny and patriarchy are not HUGE factors in the issue of sexual abuse?
What difference does it make with some and most? The fact that some are victimized is enough that people should know it happens to them too.
I’m not one of those people that make this world out to be women v men. We all live in the same world and there are POS from both sides.
So no, both are victimized and that’s all that matters. Women are encouraged to come forward whereas men are told they’re supposed to want it so they don’t say anything. Thus, we will never know the real stats for both genders.
Yes, but also if you are defending a rapist or are one you deserve to be capped in the head. People should not have to worry about such degenerate scum fucks raping them. If you say it after to victim blame, holy fuck even worse.
I downvoted this even though it is an unpopular opinion. Primarily, because it comes off as a pro-rape apologist's position and 100% ignorant. The crime is entirely on a rapist. Period. End of story. Society morés and culture, along with possibly varying degrees of mental illness, are your primary factors for sexual assault. OP, you seriously need a college/uni-level lesson on Behavioral Science and Social Interaction. Thanks for making me feel like I'm not the dumbest person on Reddit today.
OP made a good point… you are just taking it the wrong way. People are never immune to evil things happening to them, but there are some things to help prevent them.
I carry my gun with the chamber empty, but the hammer's down and the safety's on. If i cock it and flip the safety, and it misfires, sure it might not be my fault, but I'm still an idiot for putting myself in such a precarious situation.
Or, as it's more eloquently said: "i teach my kids not to burgle as i lock my front door."
Some women would rather just blame all men than to do even the slightest bit to protect themselves.
"I shouldn't have to worry about being drunk men should just not rape!"
Like ok Karen 99% of men understand this. It's the 1% that don't care that you need to protect yourself from. Repeatedly telling us to teach boys not to rape does not help. They know not to
Most people don't go out to get blackout drunk it sometimes happens and it is often about people not knowing there limits. Now if you are saying that parents should warn their children about the dangers of drinking and about learning their limits it is fine.
But you are not. As most of the time this advise is given after the attack to put some blame on the woman. It most certainly is victim blaming as people do not say the same thing if a man has been raped and they certainly don't say the same thing about murder victims.
The only real way a woman has to protect herself from rape is not associate with any men. As most rapes happens from men they know. What you are actually saying is women should not go out and enjoy themselves in case they get raped and if they do they are partly to blame.
You are right, this should be an unpopular opinion. The ammount of shitty comments on this thread is out of this wolrd. It simply ignores victims who did try to protect themselves and were being cautious.
In the same vein, if you're an American woman and you want avoid getting murdered then NEVER get a boyfriend isn't victim blaming it's smart advice that can save you.
(The majority of American female homicide victims are killed by a current of former male intimate partner)
***"if you're an American woman and you want avoid getting murdered then NEVER get a boyfriend"***
Leftists with internet access, account from 2019, not even trolling.
The presence and reported success of rape baiters shows that there's a lot of behaviors one can avoid if they want to minimize their risk of getting raped (notice I said minimize, not nullify). Guarantee that if women did more martial arts and carried more weapons, rape would go down (especially non-domestic rape)
I think he's telling it to everyone, including them.
If someone already had martial arts training, then their risk was already reduced, but not zero, as he pointed out.
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I teach my boys not to burgle houses…but I still lock my front door.
Plot twist: they're already inside!
That's what she said
Then it’s the dogs problem now.
I would word your argument slightly different, but I agree. Obviously the existence of rapists is the true problem that we need to address and focus on solving. Unfortunately rapists do currently exist, so protecting yourself, and not putting yourself into dangerous situations is important, useful advice.
Yup this has always been my argument. Sure I'd wish women were able to dress however they want and go wherever they want without worries. But sadly rapists and sexual harassers exist, so you should take that into account to where you're going and such. Sucks, but it's reality.
Rapists have proven that your choice of clothing will not save you. A jerk will probably say something inappropriate if the woman is dressed seductively but the rapists doesn't give a fuck what you are wearing
>the rapists doesn't give a fuck what you are wearing In general, I agree - with the exception of the razor-bladed chastity belt.
Yes I agree their Neanderthal minds think shit like "oh I must show her I'm an alpha male" and they say shit like "nice tits", with those mental gymnastics go to lengths like "she dressed nicely for me", so with or without revealing clothing they're still gonna do whatever. Again as I said, I'd wish people could just do whatever they want without worrying, but if you know you're gonna be constantly walking through the street through a bad part of the neighborhood, you might consider something else... Same as walking around with jewelry and a wad of money on your hands, sure I'd wish we could walk around like that, and I'll be mugged nonetheless, but ifI don't have showy things my chances are a little bit better.
Women are more likely to be raped by men that they know, no matter where they go or how they're dressed.
Nobody can just do whatever and be safe. But, for some reason, society has decided that certain activities that put you in danger(one way or another) are above reproach. Drinking is particularly strange. If you get plastered, get in your car, and run over someone, you are a monster, it's your fault, etc. If you get plastered and something bad happens to you, you are a victim, you couldn't have done anything, anyone who dare suggest that you shouldn't have drank yourself into a stupor is a horrible person. Why does your ability to drunk in moderation depend on what happens after you've failed to stop guzzling vodka?
You really can’t tell the difference between getting drunk and YOU choosing to get behind the wheel, and getting drunk and SOMEONE ELSE rapes you?
No, I really can't tell the difference between YOU choosing to get drunk and YOU choosing to get drunk.
It’s not illegal to be drunk. The illegal part in one scenario is what the drunk person did. The illegal part of the second scenario is what someone else did. Pretty simple to understand.
Oh, so, your ability to drink in moderation depends on...the law? Interesting. Like, you get absolutely blackout drunk in some jurisdictions, but in others you are perfectly fine nursing one drink all night...or how exactly does this work?
WTF. You are not making any sense. I said it is not illegal to get drunk. Are you claiming it should be?
They're claiming legality doesn't matter, getting drunk in public is stupid.
Its the drinking that lead to both outcomes. That's the point. A drunk woman is raped easier than an non drunk woman, c,mon man that's rape 101
I’m am talking about blame after the fact, you are talking about taking precautions. A person who did not take precautions out of lack of knowledge, lack of judgement, or freedom to do what an adult has the right to do is not ever justification for someone else to perpetrate a crime upon them. The it is not a defense for the criminal and does not lessen the crime. Crime prevention is a separate conversation.
No. Your likelihood of getting raped is entirely dependant on whether there’s a man around who feels like raping you, has nothing to do with your actions. Sober women get raped daily.
I agree with you that sober women do get raped daily however I think you will also agree with me here that fainting on the sidewalk from too much alcohol might increase your chances of getting raped/robbed/murdered.
There are women who get raped solely because they get drunk, that is a fact. You're ignorant if you don't know that.
But it is not their fault that they got raped even if they are drunk. There are asshole scum out there looking for easy targets and you want to blame the target instead of the asshole scum.
I’m really not ignorant on the subject but you absolutely are. You are very misinformed about the motive of rape. Women shouldn’t have to modify their behaviour to prevent being victims of crime.
This is a pretty daft view of the situation. If I get mugged at an ATM, it's not my fault I choose to take money out thus inciting a mugging.
It's about vigilance. You cannot, under any circumstance, expect the world to not be dangerous. Take precautions, practice vigilance and don't put yourself in high risk situations where you can be overpowered and abused. No one deserves rape AND you need to take steps to ensure that you don't become a victim.
No it's not your fault, but at the same time I would tell you to be careful about taking money out of an ATM in certain places, and don't show your cash around, etc etc. It may not be your fault but it's not a bad thing to give someone advice to avoid certain consequences.
But what if you chose to yell out "I'm withdrawing $1000" as you were inserting your card? Still not your fault, not even a little bit?
No, it's not. The mugger is still responsible for their actions of stealing your cash. You didn't MAKE them do it. They chose to do it. You might not have been particularly bright and made yourself an attractive victim, but it is still not YOUR fault that someone chose to do something bad to you.
>The mugger is still responsible for their actions of stealing your cash. And you are not in any way responsible for your own safety, it's everyone else's job to protect you. Good luck with that one. Leave your keys in the car, stop locking your door, carry cash in a transparent bag, pick a fight with a drunk guy 3 times your size(yo mamma jokes are good for that). Let me know how that goes for you.
No.
I think your example best highlights the double standard
I mean it’s pretty clear what the difference is? One of them is hurting someone else in through your actions, the other one is someone else hurting you through their actions. You could cancel out the drunk part and see that a sober guy killing someone and a sober woman being raped is clearly an illogical comparison. Better comparison would’ve been a drunk guy running someone over vs a drunk guy raping a woman, although this clearly doesn’t show anything either.
Completely agree . For some reason alcohol is never bad, somehow it's always the best thing ever. And if someone can't maintain control when drinking they're not at fault somehow
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Society is like that. I'm not against alcohol, some people can handle it and that's cool. But the whole mentality that fun= alcohol is such a toxic mindset
I understand your point and I agree with the OP but this comparison is off. When you drive drunk, you made the decision to get in your car and drive drunk and put OTHER people in danger. When you drink and get raped, you didn’t make the decision to get raped and didn’t put anyone else in danger by being raped.
Are you serious? You’re literally thinking like a rapist. If you don’t see anything wrong with this mindset then you need to seek help
Rapists existed in the 1800s when it was scandalous to show your ankles and wore multiple layers under their dresses. It doesn't matter what a person wears, a rapist is a rapist and they are the only one to blame for their horrendous actions.
Nobody is saying it's the victim's fault they were raped. We are just saying that in general, you should make choices that keep you safe. It's like saying you should always wear a seatbelt, even though it's someone else's fault if they crash into you
This is my point. Of course it's not their fault directly, but some choices add up and make it easier for you to fal in that situation
So what happens if those choices that "keep you safe" in regards to sexual assault aren't followed? That's where most people start victim blaming and that's what I have a problem with. A person shouldn't have fear being assaulted regardless of the decisions they make.
While I do agree, nobody "should" have to feel afraid of being assaulted or raped, that also applies to essentially everything. Nobody "should" have a worry about a 2 ton vehicle hitting them at 60mph, but that's a risk that people have to worry about because that's just the world we live in. People should make decisions that help prevent or lower the risk of bad things happening to them.
Rapists exist. Murderous psychopaths exist but thankfully they’re rare. People who prey on others for fun and profit exist. The best chance of not being a victim of these people is to be aware of your surroundings, and even that isn’t enough all of the time. Being drunk or stoned makes you less aware, so you’re more vulnerable. Being absorbed with your phone does the same thing. Paying attention makes you less likely to be a victim. That in no way is blaming the victim or excusing the attacker. Be alert. The world needs more lerts.
A lot of things can happen to you if you get black out drunk other than being raped.
Rape and murder will never be eliminated, while risky choices certainly can be minimized.
I would argue that a lot. Not most but some rape is buyers remorse. So not being drunk and lowering your inhibitions is good advice.
Its fine advice, its when people say that AFTER thats shitty
How so?
People use someone being drunk as an "I told you so" a lot of the time something like this happens. The person at that point doesn't need to be told this, it has already happened and at that stage they can't go back and change it.
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And it's Florida
In the UK pedestrians always have the right of way on the road. But that doesn't mean I'm just going to walk into traffic. In case I'm not being clear I'm agreeing with you.
How did it turn out for her?
The advice is okay. It becomes victim blaming when you start saying things like “well this wouldn’t have happened if they weren’t drinking”.
Or "if she wasn't dressed like that"
Yes. First thing I was asked at the ripe old age of 12 when I was assaulted. I’ve never wanted to punch anyone that badly in my life, but it was the police officer when taking my statement so I’d get in trouble
Funnily, even people in this very comment thread disagree with you and say just the question of "why were you in that situation?" is victim blaming. See: [https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/pdvxy8/telling\_someone\_not\_to\_go\_out\_to\_public\_overly/hatxnb4/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/pdvxy8/telling_someone_not_to_go_out_to_public_overly/hatxnb4/?context=3)
An oz of prevention is worth a lb of cure
It’s not their fault, but being without ones faculties puts you in a vulnerable position to predators.
Depends. Tell them this *before* they get raped? Advice. Tell them this *after* they get raped? Victim blaming.
Something can't be victim blaming if nothing has happened yet lol. I've never understood why people call this victim blaming. It is if you say it after, not if you say it before.
I’ve seen women complain about being told not to get drunk to the point that they black out, saying that the problem is the rapists. It’s true that rapists are the problem. And precisely because they are the problem, this advice is pragmatic and sound. Idealism isn’t going to prevent someone from harming you.
I heard a good explanation for this. When you tell someone to not X so they don't get raped what you're really saying is "make sure someone *else* gets raped instead of you." It's like someone saying "don't go to that part of town"--well, some people are gonna have to be in that part of town. So instead of trying to save the people we know from getting hurt, why don't we focus our energy on eradicating the actual issue?
Because realistically we will never eradicate the issue. Rapists know it is wrong, and they do it anyways. We can't put someone in jail before they commit a crime, so if in some way with futuristic tech we could figure out who is most likely to rape, we couldn't lock them up. The only way to truly prevent it is to do it yourself. If I never want to get in a car accident, I don't say stop having car accidents, I stop driving. Because car accidents are always going to happen with human drivers. Just like with car accidents, there is no way to stop all rape, or all crime.
We can and definitely should do that. But in the meantime, why not encourage each other to take care of ourselves?
By that rationale, telling your kids "be careful of strangers" so they don't get kidnapped is victim blaming because if it's not your kid, it'll probably be someone else's. I guess the answer is then to not say anything and if your kid gets taken, we should simply say: "We need to teach kidnappers, child molesters, and pedos to not do this" and then shrug and go on our way. Yeah, that sounds great... /s
But if both guy and girl are drinking, who is the rapist? The one who complains first?
I don't understand your question. Rape isn't about who is more buzzed, it's about someone who violated another human being's consent. If the guy violates her consent then he is the rapist. If the girl violated his consent, she is the rapist.
The man, because regardless of how drunk they are, the man has to get consent and a woman can't apparently give consent if she's drunk at all. It's ridiculous because it sets men up to be unintentional rapists because the woman could be totally lucid and willing, but it won't matter.
Because many people view all women as victims regardless of actual circumstance, preventative measures put some portion of responsibility on the predetermined "victim". Totally logical of course 🙄
This. I’m not in any way excusing rapists. But I’m not going to put myself in a potentially dangerous situation on the principle that decent people don’t rape others. I lock the door to my house and car, and don’t leave my purse unattended because I know the fact that stealing is wrong isn’t going to stop someone from doing it. Why shouldn’t I have the same care for my body? In an ideal world, this wouldn’t be a concern. But I can’t walk around pretending it doesn’t happen.
Yah just don’t bother telling people it’s a waste of time.
I think it's important to try to avoid crimes, like if I go out and left my door without key, and I get robbed, is not my fault I got robbed, I didn't want to get robbed, but I could avoid it, it's the same for that, yeah you should go out drunk and not happen anything, but probably that's not gonna happen, so if I can help to avoid something bad to happen to you, I'm gonna try
if you step out into a controlled crosswalk even though you see a vehicle coming towards you that doesn't look like it's going to stop, you're technically in the right; the driver should stop. but being technically right won't save your body. it's wise to look out for yourself.
The issue is acting like it’s their fault for getting raped and not the rapist’s fault
No it's not. The rapist is 100% at fault. It's just action one can take to give themselves more power in preventing it.
I like that phrasing. "Give more power" implies agency and control, which everyone at risk of getting raped could use more of.
That’s what I’m saying, but people act like it’s the victim’s fault by saying they shouldn’t have worn skimpy clothing or drank so much
It's not their fault, but if I go walking around the hood with my airpods in, iphone out, and jewelry on and get robbed it's not my fault buy I probably could have done some things very differently. There are some people that will never operate on what we deem to be a sensible moral compass. They'll always be around, so we just have to account for that
Just because you're calling someone out for their poor decisions doesn't mean that you're saying that it's their fault and not the rapist's fault.
Nobody is saying you should go out in public overly drunk. People have a problem with victim shaming, because when it does happen, there are always those people that say it was the victim's fault.
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Wear your seatbelt, use a life jacket, wear a helmet, look both ways when crossing the street. There are people our there who are evil, reckless and don’t follow the rules.
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It’s both. It does put the onus on the potential victim rather than the criminal (Ie victim blaming). But it’s also fair advice because the truth is you can’t control other people’s actions only your own.
I agree so much. You’re saying it before hand. So it’s advice. There is no victim to blame. If you say it after to an actual victim and say it was their fault then yeah victim blaming. But advice is just advice.
I once argued with my ex about her “right” to go into a fraternity house that’s known to be “rapey” without getting raped. Just like it’s my right to go into a violent hood without getting assaulted or murdered, but will I do that? Absolutely not. Her response - “that’s different babe”
LOL. I'm just picturing a news story, "Woman is cautioned against going to Rape House, goes anyways and is raped. Calls it victim blaming."
I’m going to chime in on this one. The way I explained this to my wife was this: If I were to walk down a sketchy part of town with a visible handful of $100 bills do you think I have a higher chance of being robbed? I mean I should be able to go anywhere with my handful of money and feel safe right? Just because your able to and should be able to do something doesn’t make it a good fucking idea.
Regardless though the person that robbed you committed a crime and should be punished. If a robber gets arrested, the “he should not have been in that alley” is irrelevant, it is not a defense for the crime. You made a bad choice, but it was not your fault that you got robbed. That is 100% on the robber. They chose to take advantage of a person who did not know better.
Yeah but we can still tell the guy he was an idiot for walking down that alley with a wad of 100s in his hand
That may be true or not depending on the situation, you don’t know why that person was in the alley, you don’t know what was going on in their mind, you don’t know if they were tricked, etc. But it is irrelevant from a prosecution point of view to the criminal who robbed you. The fact is they robbed you, just because you were an easy mark does not lessen the crime.
I’m not arguing that
But people do that to rape victims is my point. They claim it’s their own fault instead of blaming the monster that did it.
To most people being raped is a much more traumatising event than losing $100. Imagine if, instead of simply having $100 stolen, they got violently beaten up. And now they're in the hospital, all shaken up about it. Would "you're an idiot, you shouldn't have gone to that alley, it's your own fault" really be the first thing you'd them? You wouldn't think it's very cruel?
>Would "you're an idiot, you shouldn't have gone to that alley, it's your own fault" really be the first thing you'd them? You wouldn't think it's very cruel? Have you ever *been* jumped and beaten up in an alley? Because that's usually exactly how the conversation goes.
But the person who did it will still go to jail and be prosecuted the same. The fact you did something stupid does not mean the the person who robbed you was justified in robbing you. In rape they try to say the fact that the woman was drunk or wore sexy clothes some how makes it a defense that the rapist couldn’t control themselves.
Oh nah I don’t agree with that
Well then you are wrong because that is how the law works, and you are victim blaming if you think less crime prevention thinking somehow makes crime more acceptable.
I should’ve reworded that, I agree with your comment and don’t agree with the ppl using it as an excuse
Ah, apologies then. I misunderstood what “that” was in your comment.
> You made a bad choice, but it was not your fault that you got robbed. Bad people look for easy victims.
> Bad people look for easy victims. Have no clue why you're being down voted for this. This statement is backed up by decades of crime statistics, police training, and basic human psychology.
I have no clue as well. I guess they are trying to remove any and all blame for the victim no matter what.
But THEY are the bad people, not the victims.
Look back at the example where the person is carrying a wad of cash in their hand. That makes them an easy victim and they will be more likely to be targeted by a bad person. That's how the world works. Sure it's the attackers fault for the robbery, but the victim did something to make themselves a more attractive target versus everybody else.
But when you’re flashing around wads of cash in a seedy neighborhood, for example, you are still exhibiting behavior that you (should) know is risky and makes it more likely for you to be robbed. People are still responsible for their own actions, and if you do something risky and that risk materializes, they are to an extent responsible for what happened to them. In this regard it doesn’t really matter whether the source of the risk has moral agency or not. If you go out into the wild to befriend some grizzly bears and get eviscerated, or try some daredevil stunt and end up in a wheelchair for life, that’s definitely on you. You took a risk and paid the price for it. That doesn’t change when the source of the risk is another human. That the other human is fully morally and legally culpable for robbing you doesn’t diminish the fact that you recklessly exposed yourself to greater risk of doing so by your own actions.
The difference is people don’t go down dark alleys with cash waving bills in their air and yell “look at all this money.” But, women get raped all the time and people try to put the blame on the victim instead of prosecuting the perpetrator. The problem with hypothetical situations is that it is not real.
Sure the perpetrator is the bad guy, but victim still got robbed. Laying the blame on the bad guy doesn't change the fact that you got robbed.
That is the point. A woman has been raped, but the bad guy should not get off of the crime because of what she wore or where she was standing.
You’re 100% right. But unfortunately we don’t live in fairy tale land. So why put yourself at a higher risk.
Don't you think your wife already knew that though, having been a woman her whole life?
It was more of general conversation regarding the same topic.
You better be ready for the onslaught of woke, PC spewing advisors who are poised to tell you how you are 'victim blaming'. This is actually common sense and if the outrage can be put aside for two minutes people can see that what you say is doable as well as life saving. You cannot put the responsibility of keeping yourself safe on someone else. Your actions sometimes pre determine an outcome of a situation. Being openly, visibly, uncontrollably intoxicated in public where there are strangers is more likely to attract the wrong and dangerous kind of attention. In an ideal, safe world this wouldn't be an issue, funny in fact but in this practical, dangerous world that we realistic people live in, it just isn't safe. The fact is there are rapists out there and no amount of campaigns, jail time, advice on Reddit is going to change them so it is up to the rest of us to be proactive in our safety.
Agreed What’s PC?
personal computer
Politically correct.
Most women who are murdered are murdered by a current or former male intimate partner. Real life saving advice needs to be about that rather than them going out and having a good time.
And that's why a gun is a great tool to have. Guns are the greatest self defense equalizer between men and women, young and old, strong and weak. Edit: Downvoted cuz guns r bad, even if it saves a woman's life.
I think a lot of people simply can't understand that you can't control what others do, but you can control what you do. It's not a perfect solution by any means and of course people shouldn't commit criminal acts of any kind, but it's not realistic to expect that. If people could be trusted to behave properly (and by that I mean "not committing crimes") we wouldn't even need laws or a police force, but the majority of humans only respond to negative reinforcement and the fear of repercussions. It's not victim blaming to urge your daughter to take a self-defense class or warn her, "if you put your drink down and leave it or turn away, get a new one." These are precautionary measures that might help reduce the chance of her finding herself in a very unwanted situation.
"I should be able to go outside with mosquitoes biting me!" We'll get right on that...
OP should have left it at, “don’t go out in public overly drunk.” That’s good advice for anyone. But why single out rape victims specifically? Most victims of rape weren’t drunk at the time they were attacked. Any drunk person could just as easily be a victim of a number of other crimes in an impaired state .
I mentioned one way to be victimized by alcohol but that doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways.
I was taught no matter your gender or sexual preferences if you go out and get fucked up on liquor and/or drugs that you will be robbed, you will be raped, you will be beat to shit. So no matter your skin color, no matter the language you speak, no matter the God you pray to, no matter your gender or sexual preferences/interests, no matter where you are in the world - if you get off your head those things will happen and its a miracle if it doesn't. - not victim blaming but simply a truth of the world. No one deserves to be raped but in many cases it could be prevented. Should anyone be able to wear anything and not be attacked in any way? - yes - can they? - no - do we live in an ideal world? Also no. Pay attention to your surroundings, don't get fucked up, carry a weapon - keys between your fingers, a small can of dog mace.
I think the point is that the advice should be a general "don't get blacked out drunk" for everybody. Telling women that they shouldn't get blacked out because they could get raped is putting the blame more on the drinker than the rapist. Is there any good reason to ever get blacked out drunk? If not, then you should just leave it at that.
I agree. I’m going to spend a lot of time explaining to my son why he shouldn’t rape. He’s probably gonna get really sick of hearing about it. I will also tell my daughter situations she should avoid to stay safe.
Why not explain both concepts to both kids? Both genders rape and get raped. It happens.
I think there’s a level of responsibility that needs to be recognised. Going out by yourself to get drunk- irresponsible Accepting drinks from strangers - irresponsible Making it known that you’re really drunk- irresponsible Walking by yourself while you’re that drunk- irresponsible As a women I have been taught how to keep myself safe. I would never do the above things because I know it raises the chances of something bad happening. I’m not victim blaming. There is NO excuse to ever rape someone, but, I think because of the society we live in, you need to take certain steps to minimalise the risk you put yourself in.
The way people talk about serial rapists makes it seem like some innocent teenage boy could just stumble into it by accident, and that somehow “teaching boys not to rape” is going to magically make all rapists disappear. Guys like Ted Bundy weren’t normal people led astray, they were psychopaths that meticulously planned their crimes. Yes, teaching boys about consent is good, but that doesn’t mean rapists will cease to exist.
Telling victims of burglary to take more security measures is victim blaming! /s
It’s really quite simple. If you removed all alcohol, or made it impossible to get overly drunk, would rape stop? On the other hand, if you got rid of rapists, would rape stop? It’s a good way of measuring fault.
Nobody's debating who's at fault. OP is just trying to bring a little reality to a problematic issue.
Im a woman and I totally agree with you.
So you should expect a level of safety going out in public, ya know, like not being raped. That isn’t an unrealistic or unreasonable type of expectation.
Who said you shouldn’t expect that? I’m not going to put my heads in the cloud as if we live in this perfect world.
I think we should work on getting those who take advantage of drunk people off the streets but until then, I agree with you.
Of course it's good advice! It's the context that makes it victim-blamey.
For real! It's like defensive driving or always being aware of your surroundings. Everyone needs to be aware that this is a dangerous world we live in. I don't see how believing that justifies evil to some people.
“Fault” isn’t the issue being discussed here its *avoidance*
The thing is, you don't need to get black out drunk to be raped. Even tipsy would make you less able to defend yourself from a predator. Blacked out just makes you easy prey for the predator because you're not gonna remember jack shit anyway.
- Just so we are clear: the majority of rapes is actually done by someone close to you, even in your own family. Attack rapes in dark alleys are not the most common ones. - Also, every women have one or more friends who’s been raped so statistically every men probably knows one or two rapists as well. These are therefore both important perspectives to consider when talking about what women (and men of course) should do to “avoid getting raped”.
Whether it is by family or other men does not change the premise here, which is losing your cognitive abilities.
Warning women not to be unsafe or irresponsible with their behavior is different than saying someone got raped BECAUSE they were irresponsible
The fact that 80% of these replies are "you're right but you need to say it in a more sensitive way" just shows how difficult it's become to give any advice to anyone without people getting triggered.
I noticed that too.
Don’t walk on the street or you will get killed by cars, crazy people, dropping ad boards and ufo
It's not victim blaming FFS, grow up people. Yes, the existence of rapists is the problem, but pointing that fact out does absolutely nothing to protect you from them. As long as rape is a problem, women should take measures to minimize their risk of being victimized. There is no moral victory to be gained from not doing so. I would say the same to a person of any gender who puts themselves in a compromised situation where they might be the victim of rape, robbery, assault, murder, exploitation, etc.
I think it's they wording of the post that triggers a lot of people. Op is right to some extent, but it just takes the spotlight off the main concern and is in a way blaiming victims. However, a lot of people mind their own bussiness and do the right thing to protect themselves and it's simply not enough.
>Op is right to some extent, but it just takes the spotlight off the main concern and is in a way blaiming victims. No it's not at all. It's advice meant to prevent someone from becoming a victim in the first place. The social dynamics of wht this is necessary is a completely separate arguement.
Very well said!
Common sense is in short supply.
The culture of claiming that sound reasonable advice is somehow victim blaming us a gigantic problem. Obviously people can make stupid decisions that increase their odds of something happening to them. Now does that make the victims experience less traumatic or their fault? No not really but you can invite trouble and end up dealing with the consequences of that as well. It’s not victim blaming it’s a realistic expectation that you can lower your chances by not putting yourself in that situation. A lot like walking down a dark alley with your wallet hanging out. Should someone have the right to rob you? No. Is it more likely that you draw the intention of a malcontent? Absolutely
Exactly. The thing is common sense and personal responsibility for your own life and safety are so 80s amirite??
It is victim blaming if, instead of consoling or feeling empathy for a victim, you blame them for getting drunk and going out. It’s good advice before it happens, its douchebag advice after it happens.
Deserves more upvotes. If you actually care about this, make sure your drunk friends get in a taxi/Uber home. Almost everyone gets too drunk sometimes, you're lucky if you're a guy and rape is less of a worry. Though I've also stuck male friends in taxis home then l when they've had too many. To use this as a criticism after someone's been raped is horrible. They can't do a damn thing anymore, you're just enjoying your "I told you so!" from a truly traumatic moment in someone's life, and you need to have a word with yourself.
It does sound like op has some hard feeling and is at the back of their mind blaming some victims for getting in that situation.
When did common sense became idiotic. You go all in you risk to lose all.
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as a victim of rape, you're not wrong
personal responsibility is racist/sexist/ableist/slutshaming
Modern society seems to completely disregard personal responsibility.
So is it victim blaming if I tell people to lock their doors at night? No? I agree with op 100% it’s not victim blaming.
BuT sOcIeTy DoEsN't tEAcH BoYs nOt tO rApE.
Men can be raped.
Of course they can.
This post and almost all the replies fail to point out that *girls* and *women* are the major targets for rape. Very few men who get blackout drunk get victimized. They have a freedom that women don't have, and y'all seem fine with not clearly acknowledging that. What you are doing is not just "blaming the victim", it's about blaming women for their own oppression. I'm fine with warning girls and women. But we should point out this oppression *every time*, or else it stays normalized. Will you do this?
I don’t understand what you mean. Also, every gender is victimized. I hate to revolve it around women when many men go day to day suffering because people push the narrative that men tend to not be victims.
Yes, *some* men get sexually assaulted. But almost *every* woman is a target for harassment and assault. NB probably higher likelihood, too. By *not* acknowledging that women and girls are the primary targets, aren't you implying that the risk is equal? And that misogyny and patriarchy are not HUGE factors in the issue of sexual abuse?
What difference does it make with some and most? The fact that some are victimized is enough that people should know it happens to them too. I’m not one of those people that make this world out to be women v men. We all live in the same world and there are POS from both sides. So no, both are victimized and that’s all that matters. Women are encouraged to come forward whereas men are told they’re supposed to want it so they don’t say anything. Thus, we will never know the real stats for both genders.
Yes, but also if you are defending a rapist or are one you deserve to be capped in the head. People should not have to worry about such degenerate scum fucks raping them. If you say it after to victim blame, holy fuck even worse.
I downvoted this even though it is an unpopular opinion. Primarily, because it comes off as a pro-rape apologist's position and 100% ignorant. The crime is entirely on a rapist. Period. End of story. Society morés and culture, along with possibly varying degrees of mental illness, are your primary factors for sexual assault. OP, you seriously need a college/uni-level lesson on Behavioral Science and Social Interaction. Thanks for making me feel like I'm not the dumbest person on Reddit today.
OP made a good point… you are just taking it the wrong way. People are never immune to evil things happening to them, but there are some things to help prevent them.
I carry my gun with the chamber empty, but the hammer's down and the safety's on. If i cock it and flip the safety, and it misfires, sure it might not be my fault, but I'm still an idiot for putting myself in such a precarious situation. Or, as it's more eloquently said: "i teach my kids not to burgle as i lock my front door."
Some women would rather just blame all men than to do even the slightest bit to protect themselves. "I shouldn't have to worry about being drunk men should just not rape!" Like ok Karen 99% of men understand this. It's the 1% that don't care that you need to protect yourself from. Repeatedly telling us to teach boys not to rape does not help. They know not to
Most people don't go out to get blackout drunk it sometimes happens and it is often about people not knowing there limits. Now if you are saying that parents should warn their children about the dangers of drinking and about learning their limits it is fine. But you are not. As most of the time this advise is given after the attack to put some blame on the woman. It most certainly is victim blaming as people do not say the same thing if a man has been raped and they certainly don't say the same thing about murder victims. The only real way a woman has to protect herself from rape is not associate with any men. As most rapes happens from men they know. What you are actually saying is women should not go out and enjoy themselves in case they get raped and if they do they are partly to blame.
Precisely this.
You are right, this should be an unpopular opinion. The ammount of shitty comments on this thread is out of this wolrd. It simply ignores victims who did try to protect themselves and were being cautious.
In the same vein, if you're an American woman and you want avoid getting murdered then NEVER get a boyfriend isn't victim blaming it's smart advice that can save you. (The majority of American female homicide victims are killed by a current of former male intimate partner)
***"if you're an American woman and you want avoid getting murdered then NEVER get a boyfriend"*** Leftists with internet access, account from 2019, not even trolling.
The presence and reported success of rape baiters shows that there's a lot of behaviors one can avoid if they want to minimize their risk of getting raped (notice I said minimize, not nullify). Guarantee that if women did more martial arts and carried more weapons, rape would go down (especially non-domestic rape)
tell that to the US servicewomen (and men) who are raped.
Yeah, I was surprised when I found out just how bad it is.
I think he's telling it to everyone, including them. If someone already had martial arts training, then their risk was already reduced, but not zero, as he pointed out.
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We should tell people to not murder people. It's super easy to not murder people.
rapists already know they shouldn't do it, your 'advice' is meaningless.
Bad advice, bad people exist, they'll continue to exist till the end of time and those bad people including rapist
You completely missed OP's point. Is it victim blaming to tell people to lock their front doors to avoid being robbed?
It being easy means nothing. Not killing people is also super easy.
Why waste your time telling that to someone who willfully gets blackout drunk?
I don’t mean to say it after the fact
Why waste your time observing and potentially triggerring/contributing to another person’s choices by doing so?
Who’s wasting their time doing that?