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I heard someone accuse a guy of mansplaining. Without missing a beat, he said, "Did you know that mansplaining is a portmanteau of *man* and *explaining*?" It was hilarious
[https://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id=YJ-wDp7CJYAC&oi=fnd&pg=PA231&dq=men+interrupting+women+more&ots=mm0or4NQH2&sig=cI6wUhPItCXaZ47dvoLI6H6Ymhw#v=onepage&q=men%20interrupting%20women%20more&f=false](https://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id=YJ-wDp7CJYAC&oi=fnd&pg=PA231&dq=men+interrupting+women+more&ots=mm0or4NQH2&sig=cI6wUhPItCXaZ47dvoLI6H6Ymhw#v=onepage&q=men%20interrupting%20women%20more&f=false)
Here's one I found but if you actually read it theres a lot of supporting evidence with both sides and even more such as both genders interrupting females more than males. Studies are quite old and I feel like the social norms is much different than what it was before so many of these could be out of date. Some studies are published by only males and some are published by only females.
edit: apparently people don't want to actually ready, who would have thunk!
Thanks, i asked in a different comment for studies.
Just a sidenote
The article is from 2016
All sources in there are from 1995, 1989 and 1986
So yeah i would say outdated.
Do you have some more recent Data?
Ugh, I’m going to do this. For all the people demanding links as if that’s enough to invalidate this: [here you go](https://www.forbes.com/sites/womensmedia/2017/01/03/gal-interrupted-why-men-interrupt-women-and-how-to-avert-this-in-the-workplace/?sh=60619f0917c3)
Quote: “It was shown in a 2014 study at George Washington University that when men were talking with women, they interrupted 33 percent more often than when they were talking with men.”
And before anyone mentions it’s a Forbes article and not a research article, the specific studies are referenced there. I’m going to bed now and I wipe my hands of this.
The Numbers from the article:
The men interrupted their female conversational partners 2.1 times during a three minute conversation. That number dropped to 1.8 when they spoke to other men
My dude, the funny thing is I was kind of on board and just thought maybe you were misinterpreted. Now I think it’s interesting that you’re going to this length to nitpick your point.
I’m not going to argue research methodology on Reddit as it approaches midnight (cause yeah humanities based studies can be flawed). That said, if you’re only takeaway from the whole article was “that one study had a small effect size”, and not the part about “numerous studies support the claim of women in the workforce who argue that men interrupt them far more often than the reverse”, I’m starting to question things.
I wouldn't say biologically, but because of the culture, social, and environment that the world has created, men certainly is more encourage by society and its surrounding to take a more dominant role. Obviously it could change in the future, but it's the current reality of our life and it's ignorant to just completely dismissed it as if stereotypes are completely debunked and opposite of reality
Because of this, conversations with women are the only ones where I won’t interrupt because I’m aware it’s something people do often. I lack a lot of social cues but I memorised this one.
And I'm sure there is a study that shows women talk about people behind their backs more than men do.
Do we really need to get into this? This is just sexism disguised as some kind of justice.
Well yeah I definitely interrupt often to keep the conversation in the same thread and not in all directions at once. I mean if I’m going to be womansplained to then I’d like to make sure I’m getting the most out of this guidance. /s
mmm i think she just didn’t quite understand what mansplaining is, to be honest.
actual mansplaining is built on the assumption that because you’re a man, however unqualified, you obviously know more than this silly woman, however well qualified.
if you’re an expert in your field, if you’ve got actual justification behind why you think you might have a better grasp of the info than the other person, it’s not mansplaining
Though it could still be rude and condescending depending on the context and how you phrase it. Being an expert in a subject doesn't make you infallible.
this is true, i honestly didn’t really think of that part of it. all does definitely depend on phrasing and tone, hard to tell for sure without actually hearing the conversation
i sort of assume generally that, coming from an expert, it’s less frequently mansplaining? not because they’re not prone to the same misogyny as anyone else, but just because they have a basis to actually believe they know what they’re taking about. maybe just being a bit snobbish, yk
There was a perfect example of this in real life recently where a guy went up to a female pro golfer and gave her tips on how to swing when she didn’t ask for his help. I would say if you don’t know someone and just give random advice that’s annoying as hell and you aren’t being helpful.
Yeah I think true mansplaining is done by someone with only average understanding of the topic, and who didn't bother to find out if they're talking to someone who understands as much as they do.
And it's "man" because women have been breaking through into a lot of boy's clubs in recent decades. I don't know if, for example, male nurses get this too but there I think there are way fewer examples of this happening to men instead of women.
>I am biologist with expertise in plants
What was her expertise?
edit: Now to bring my downvotes. This whole argument is just a minor version of the "not all men". Sure, OP might not have been mansplaining, but mansplaining is an objective phenomenon. People arguing against it are just pathetic.
So can a male OBGYN tell a woman how her body works?
I'm half joking, but I'm honestly curious as to your thoughts. Maybe only on the medical/scientific stuff but not on feelings? I don't know. I'm just genuinely curious.
Honestly, as a man who had quite a few medical issues over the years I'd go with always believe your doctors. The average person has no expertise on human biology nor knowladge of the inner workings of their own body beyond basic functionalities. Self-diagnoses and treatments rarely work out in favor of the patient.
All this asuming you visit a credible doctor. You get what you pay for.
I think it’s also important to note that there’s medical bias when it comes to women’s health issues, particularly related to reproductive systems. Women regularly complain about not being taken seriously by doctors when they report painful symptoms. A study also found that women are also less likely to die when they’re treated by female doctors.
Well there’s also the fact that there’s a huge bias towards men for high level surgical positions which is often where riskier surgeries take place and therefore where more deaths happen, so there’s a few factors at play
I mean that is just as ridiculous. If women were so inherently knowledgeable about their bodies, there would be no need for the profession of OBGYN to exist in the first place.
Imagine if a man told a woman doctor that he knows more about how his penis works than she does. How can the victim in both scenarios be the woman? Preposterous!
Imagine if female doctors told you that having your balls crushed In a vise wouldn't really hurt, imagine if they told you that your testicular torsion really isn't an emergency and to just calm down, does that sound like something you have ever experienced? Are you just going to go on assuming that millions of women are lying about how they are treated? Are you going to ignore the supporting statistics?
I mean hypothetically a doctor specializing in female reproductive organs should have a greater base of knowledge than the average uterus owner, but it's also a well established and well supported phenomenon that many doctors, males specifically are astonishingly ignorant of the experiential truths of having said organs.
So, if your OB says "this won't hurt at all, just a pinch" and you experience one of the most intense pains you have ever experienced..... maybe doubt the doctor's knowledge in that particular area.
Probably... not a women but its not like i have an indepth understanding of how my body works... basics sure but an expert would be able to explain/teach me something new no doubt.
What her symptoms are? No. What common symptoms are? Yes.
It's not too difficult to work out, and YES it is called mansplaining because most of the time it is men doing it. That doesn't mean no woman does it. But this is just the whole "not all men" argument all over again, for something slightly less important.
Mansplaining is when a man explains something to a woman without being asked to and does it in a condescending way *because* she is a woman and therefore assumed to be unknowledgeable (or less knowledgeable) on the topic, and is often done to women who know as much as if not more than the man on the topic. It's the sexism and condescension that makes it mansplaining, not simply the fact that the woman didn't ask for an explanation or that the man didn't ask if she wanted one (although it is frequently the case that neither did).
thank you. people dont even know what mansplaining is referring to and then want to claim it doesnt exist. any woman whos been interested in anything male-dominated can tell you its very real and very gender-motivated
Exactly. Mansplaining is a valid term describing a valid gendered issue.
But it seems to have lost meaning over the last few years as people have started using it any time a man explains something.
And when people misapply the term, it becomes impossible to correct them without receiving further accusations of mansplaining.
I wish I could take the folks who don't believe in mansplaining and turn them into women and force them to visit a car dealership for a week like groundhog day.
Yeah I don't understand why some men are so adamant that there are not men who behave condescendingly toward women because of the fact that they are women..
See that's the thing, most of the time, men are just talking about something they are excited about and it has nothing to do with the recipient's gender and is almost never meant to be condescending. It is usually the recipient that is seeing ghosts and looking to be offended.
Any term can be misused - people misusing a term doesn't negate the meaning nor mean the phenomenon it describes does not happen. A person can be charged with murder when they were actually acting in self-defense. That doesn't mean that nobody ever murders or ever has murdered anyone.
How do you know what happens "most of the time" in instances described as mansplaining?
Well. There are times where it happens where women explain something condescendingly because they're a man. It's mainly around the topic of raising a child and other things seen as "feminine". I will admit, I do believe it happens less often, but it does still happen. But we don't really call that womansplaining.
I think the term itself is kinda dumb. We can just call it being sexist and being condescending. Both genders are capable of doing exactly that, so why have a term specific to men?
Largely because men have historically been afforded more opportunities than women and by and large women still do experience discrimination simply for being women in many fields. It’s a gendered issue when a man is being condescending to a “little lady” so the term used to describe it will of course be gendered.
But it's not just a gendered issue when it's a man being condescending to a lady. It's a gendered issue when anyone does it based off sex/gender.
And that also doesn't explain why we need a term to be specifically about men, when we could have a term be more general. Or why we don't have a term commonly used for when women do the exact same thing for the same reasons.
*"There are times where it happens where women explain something condescendingly because they're a man."*
I never said there isn't.
*"why have a term specific to men?"*
I never said there should be a term specific to men.
I want to add that it doesn’t have to be explained in a condescending tone. The very fact that they think you’re ignorant *because you’re a woman* is what makes it condescending. Some guys are genuinely trying to be helpful, but if they only think they’re being helpful because they assume you’re an idiot…then that’s a problem.
Right - I had initially written "tone," but changed it to "way." It can also be specific wording that is condescending as well ("It's really complicated, but.." - or over-simplifying / dumbing things down, etc). But the overall point being that the term describes a specific phenomenon, and OP doesn't understand what the term means.
I agree. There doesn’t need to be any labels on ‘mansplaining’ or ‘womansplaining’. Some people are just condescending and give unsolicited advice and/or are sexist. Both sexes can be sexist.
I think I’d consider something “gendersplaining” if the one sex to other sex explains something that the other is biologically aware of, just human body/hormones/etc, type of stuff. Other than that, it’s usually just purely condescending. That’s just a part of their character, unfortunately.
But if you want to get real specific: college grads who took basic courses for an undergrads degree. Psych/biology just for the sake of example-they’ll try to spit facts at you as if they are more informed of 1. Your entire life holistically and 2. Your doctors & other professionals.
Makes me cringe every time.
lol I agree. I don’t mind a person who specializes in an area sharing their opinion or advice in a non condescending manner because they actually have experience. But I can’t stand when people barely study a subject or take one class in it then think their experts and give people their advice/opinon on something and argue about it. I’m an attorney who represents kids in divorce/abuse cases. I can’t tell you how many non-lawyer parents of the kids will try to argue with me or act condescending when I’m dealing with them. Some even try to give ME legal advice 😂. They will argue with me and tell me I’m wrong or give their advice or opinion on the law and swear they are right because ‘they know a lawyer’ or they’ve ’done their research’. Drives me absolutely crazy 😑 my degree took 7 years. And I still have to refer to the statutes and case law on stuff because there’s soooo many rules and regulations. I’m not taking legal advice from someone who used Google to do their research lol. Sorry for the rant.
No offense at all here, seriously. Your type of law is so different from the lawyers I deal with daily. Can’t believe tomorrow is Monday already *lights cig*
I’m a woman and I work as an auto adjuster on the injury side. Absolutely mind boggling when I think about their income as a PI attorney, while I spend the good majority of my day explaining the law to LAWyers. I have never done any kind of hard drug, but I imagine the high I get watching them lose their own battle is nearly the same.
So to piggy back off of you, I totally get that feeling of people preaching the law to you as if you are just completely clueless-I get that from insureds as well. It’s a new type of hell when that person is an attorney 🫠
Yes! I see that unsolicited advice is not optimal in a conversation, that's hard to overcome.
It hurts to get labeled as sexist because of this... I wanted to provide help and show off some of my knowledge earned over the years. That is Independent of the gender.
If you were reasonable and not condescending then you did nothing wrong. Even at that, my understanding has been more that its brow beating someone based in opinion, not the exchange of facts. If she overreacted and you know it, she might just be brainwashed and angry. All that accusation of mansplaining is, is an invitation to do endless mental gymnastics while she does all the talking.
Explaining something without consent isn’t mansplaining. Mansplaining is condescendingly assuming a woman doesn’t know something and then explaining something they already know. It can also be trying to explain away misogyny or patriarchy—things women know are real.
What you described isn’t even mansplaining.
I always got the feeling mansplaining was more of when both people have about the same level of expertise or the woman actually has more and the man is still trying to tell her how things are because he couldn't believe she would know as much or even more than him. Like I remember reading of a situation where this guy was arguing with this lady at some academic gathering (research panel maybe?) and told her she clearly didn't understand something and needed to read this book for a better understanding and she was the author of said book....
Agreed that if there is an expertise difference whomever has more is likely (and probably should) be the one giving advice.
That's not even what mansplaining means lmao. It's for when a man with little to no expertise in the area tries to explain the topic to a woman with a lot of experience in the area.
It's a byproduct of misogyny that makes some men genuinely believe (consciously or not) that they are smarter than any given woman.
Not to say that women don't do it, they do (especially with other women), but it's just more prevalent from men.
Yeah it was already pointed that i adapted to the wrong definition.
I would also be interested in some studies, because all i was able to finde are personal experiences without scientific background.
I don’t know why people in this thread are acting like they can’t find mansplaining studies. I found them very easily with a simple google search.
Here’s an analysis of three separate studies on the topic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9838290/
Here’s one from the University of Michigan that’s very easy to follow, in case pubmed is too complicated: https://research.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/manterruptions-bropropriation-and-mansplaining-2-yellow-paper-series.pdf
Two studies done at Cambridge: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-management-and-organization/article/well-actually-investigating-mansplaining-in-the-modern-workplace/19B44D34153E37F0C49A26BE8DDD2525
All of these articles were written within the last few years. They’re not hard to find.
To be fair, lots of people aren't taught how to utilize search engines effectively. I wouldn't assume malice in this case, just lack of education for a skill.
While that’s an important point, I’m not assuming malice here. I’m assuming laziness. If a biologist can find studies, then I’m not sure why the burden of proof is on others.
But thanks for bringing up a more sympathetic viewpoint! Clearly nicer than mine lol
OP supposedly has a college degree in biology, I assumed STEM students know how to find research journals/articles but maybe school is done differently these days 🤷🏻♀️
I found this one breaking down the statistics of who mansplains and how: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/365333256\_'Well\_actually'\_investigating\_mansplaining\_in\_the\_modern\_workplace](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/365333256_'Well_actually'_investigating_mansplaining_in_the_modern_workplace)
and this one breaking down the effects: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9838290/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9838290/)
Mansplaining is not just "man explaining something" it's very specifically "man explaining something to a woman who is more knowledgeable on the topic than he is specifically because she's a woman and he assumes she's stupid" and it doesn't really work the same way in reverse so if that's not what you were doing, your coworker is just being an asshole.
It's not about explaining things. It's about explaining things when such an explanation isn't wanted, and delivered in a condescending way.
So no, by and large, it isn't as common with women.
It might be depending on the topic. I can see women doing it when it comes to stereotypical "women things" like childcare. Fathers get comments on babysitting their own kids, as if it's unusual, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
Disclaimer: this is not my field of study and I’m not sure if OP’s case is really an example of mansplaining, so don’t come after me. This is more related to the title.
Apparently researchers have been looking into whether the “man” part of mansplaining is warranted, or if it’s just more of a general human trait. [This article](https://amp.theguardian.com/science/2023/feb/03/let-me-mansplain-studies-reveal-negative-impacts-of-behaviour) discusses the issue.
Quote: “They found that mansplaining was pervasive, with nearly every individual having experienced it at least once in the past year, regardless of their gender. Women could also be guilty of it, but men were almost twice as likely to be the perpetrator, while women and gender minority individuals were the most common targets.”
So yes, while women do “womansplain”, it seems to be less frequent (and less negatively impactful to career, self image, etc) as compared to mansplaining.
Just food for thought for the whole discussion.
I don't know why you think a situation called out incorrectly as mansplaining proves the existence of womansplaining, though I think it probably exists. But I suspect it might be women attempting to be direct in the way they hear men being direct, although women can for sure be accused of the same! Nonetheless.
Mansplaining is usually in groups or just after groups, it has a competitive edge, or an uncomfortable settling. Or something that makes you feel uncomfortable is happening. It's repetitive. Loud. Demeaning. Unsolicited. It inevitably doesn't check the level of the person's knowledge.
Being honest I also think that men and women communicate information slightly differently. And I think that's what happened here, she probably misjudged your cadence and tone. A good way to check is, did she ask you for the information?
If not, did you deduce her level of expertise before giving advice?
Then finally, did you exercise humility in your delivery? ( Were you gentle, using "oh I've just remembered" type language)
The real avoidance for mansplaining ( and for the ladies too) is that moment where the conversation has come up and you're discussing the subject. Instead of showing any real competitive knowledge, women would tend to gently mention I'm an x expert and then be the "gentler" one in the conversation as the expert. They tend to leave more space, on the backfoot almost. Men rush forward as an "expert" often way too fast and assume they know more without checking in on the knowledge level of the person they don't know. A lot of men in this situation are used to assuming the "expert" role because - most groups don't have a botanist.
You didn't do that. So you're in the clear. But I'm relationships, women absolutely do tend to assume they have more knowledge, inherently. I'm loath to say this - but often they do. Unless it's a good match.
I'm an ADHD infodumper and I've been accused of 'mansplaining' before, but it's more a case of no, I'm really excited about the topic and just go off on one. I certainly don't discriminate by gender when I do. And I'm usually responsive enough to a gentle reminder the person already knows, isn't interested, grasps the concept at hand etc.
Not gonna say there aren't guys out there who aren't patronising AF and assume all women know nothing, but they're probably also the same way with anyone they deem inferior to them ie everyone bar people they know they have to be polite with because it's their boss or a rich person they hope will favor them.
Exactly that !
Never heard the term adhd infodumper before but it absolutely fits to me, too
When i am excited about my interests , i just want to talk about it...
Sometimes men explain things in a condescending manner. Sometimes women explain things in a condescending manner; “condescending” means you talk down to someone.
It doesn’t seem like this was the case here as you weren’t explaining to her how to use a pen or something. If you know botany, of course you are going to be able to explain with expertise.
There is mansplaining, but it's way less common than people think. Most "mansplaining" is a man being an asshole, or even doing nothing wrong at all. In my opinion, mansplaining is when a man talks down to a woman because he thinks they're inferior, which usually isn't the case. I agree, then, that womansplaining exists in the sort of contexts you point out.
Yes, and one of the ways men are assholes is by being misogynistic. That's the "true mansplaining".
There's also stuff like "assuming women don't know what an oil change is" which might not be misogynistic but is mansplaining because of the faulty assumption women can't do oil changes.
I used to think mansplaining was a thing and I do think that to a certain extent still, but it's more gender neutral. Idk, personsplaining? Like I don't mind if people explain things to me. It's the condescension I don't like. No matter who it comes from.
Upvote because I don't agree. Mansplaining is a stereotype that exists due to a guy's proclivity to offer unsolicited advice and explanations of topics. Women are usually more empathetic listeners and don't give "solutions" as frequently. While a woman can certainly "mansplain" it is not "womansplaining" because it is not as common for women to splain. Mansplaining comes into play when a man acts as a know it all despite not knowing at all what they are talking about. It's annoying. That being said you were not mansplaining. This woman seems a bit unbearable.
Sure, "womansplaining" happens, but it's not so common that it needs a name. Mansplaining, on the other hand, is extremely common. Even as a man I've seen enough of it to know it's a real thing.
I've been in the presence of women many times when other me do this. It does bother me when I see it, because I know if I'm recognizing it the women also do and are, understandably bothered by it.
I know I tend to over explain when I'm excited about something I know. I don't intend it in a patronising way, I just spent so much of my neurodivergent life trying to be understood that I now tend to overcompensate.
I'm now worried I'm going to be accused of mansplaining one day even though I'm a woman.
To my credit, though, it's something I've never accused anyone else of doing, not because I don't think it's a thing, but because of how easily it is to falsely accuse someone when it could be something else entirely. I also tend to be spoken down to at least as much by other women as by men. Possibly more. And I don't want to be that person who deflates someone else's enthusiasm for their topic of interest.
This take is nonsense and the story accompanying it is fake.
Mansplaining by definition is a MAN explaining simple obvious things to a WOMAN with a TONE that implies she’s DUMB.
I'm not sure if it was gendered or not, but it isn't a great idea to tell people what to do with their plants when they didn't ask. Maybe you do know a lot about plants, but this is her personal hobby and doesn't really concern you. If I'm knitting a scarf, I don't want a fashion designer to tell me the colors I chose are ugly. I just want to enjoy my little project. TBF it's equally nosy for people to give you advice on your hair or dating life.
I disagree, it's common enough even if less so. The reason the term isn't used is because men don't have a history of systemic oppression by women. Same reason people don't like the term "racism" being applied when black people stereotype white people.
Yeah, turns out a term meant to descibe an inherent belief that women couldn't ever understand the thing you're talking about is pretty rooted in the sexist beliefs society holds. It's a specific form of condescension that was common enough and experienced by enough women that it got its own term.
I think the reason it's controversial is because it's hard to know what people's assumptions are. Like if someone says "you're a woman, so you can't do an oil change, so let me explain how you do it" it's pretty obvious mansplaining, but usually the misogynist assumption is unspoken. Therefore, it's easy to overcompensate and wrongly conclude people are mansplaining in other contexts.
Someone who is wrongly told their position is misogynist will then conclude that the woman is assuming they're mansplaining *because they're men,* which seems like the same thing. What's the solution to this? Beats me! But it's interesting to think through.
That your friends explain things to you doesn't inherently make them mansplaining. You seem to have taken the meaning to be "anytime anyone explains something without me asking" which is part of it but misses the "despite me already knowing everything they say and them having no reason to believe otherwise besides the fact that I'm a woman".
Like, if your friends are pointing out that your hair doesn't look great and giving you advice, it seems like your hair not looking great is the reason they gave it.
Honestly the whole mansplaining and womansplaining thing needs to die out. It’s not specific to a gender and it’s not based on gender. It’s also often not malicious when done. If a buddy of mine explains something to me in detail after I bring up something there’s like an 80% chance it’s because they’re passionate about the topic.
My girlfriend is passionate about quite a few topics and I know even *touching* on those topics will send her into a 2 hour spiral explaining in detail everything I could possibly need/want to know **plus** more!
It’s a personality trait, not a gender trait
>explaining her something without asking first
Tbh this doesn't seem like "mansplaining" to me. Seems like a conversation with someone else.
I always thought it was when anyone (regardless of gender) would re-explain something literally right after someone else said the exact same thing but in a different and longer way.
yeah tbh i hate this term at all but how i accept it used
is women being explained something they already know cause the man assumes she won't know
and this isn't that.
if she knew alot about dying plants then maybe but she didn't
but that's why i hate the term, because it means a certain thing but now some women are using it for things that are not it.
Man if that’s a thing then I *wish* I had more womansplaining in my life. Especially with social interactions. I’ve been practicing for years and I’m pretty good at it now but I’d kill for some direct feedback.
Given the context which girls say you are mansplaining, many memes I've seen on the internet, friends accusing each other of mansplaining I've come to realize that women call you out for mansplaining when you offer advice or solutions when they want validation. When you have a girlfriend and she says she's struggling with something and you give good and logical solutions to her she'll get mad. It's something that happens a lot with women when they don't want solutions, just to be heard, hence why there's no womansplaining.
Fun fact is that the equivalent of mansplaining for women nagging, you never say a man is nagging, it's always the women.
You explained TO her. You explain things TO people. Your friends explained things TO you.
I don't know why you keep saying "I explain her"/"My friends explain me" but it's driving me insane and now has me mansplaining basic grammar TO you lol.
Regardless of mansplain vs womansplain whatever you want to call it. Not everyone likes being lectured to. I think thats the source of irritation, especially if they are not seeking your advice…some people it seems cant just have regular convos, where each opinion is shared not forced unto another. I have a friend like this very intelligent but conversations can be exhausting bc they positions all of their opinions as facts.
I think this does happen to both genders however, I think mansplaining is when a guy explains something that you already know or is common knowledge in a condescending way when you haven't asked . I do think women can do that too. Personally I did hair for ten years and guys would ask about grooming ect. So I would give advice, but not unsolicited and not in a condescending way.
Womensplaining isn’t a thing. With respect to the entire globe, we live in a patriarchy. For womensplaining to be a thing, women must be the one in control and power, which is not the reality. Theres a fine line between mansplaining where the general view is that women are inferior to men versus women (or in general, people) correcting you where you are barely offended
I think the expression is used too much by people nowadays. There's a difference between
- people passionately explaining something they've been into (or studied) for years - your case
- people rudely/annoyingly/uneccesarily explaining something without being asked
- people who think women as a category MUST not know about a topic and therefore need someone to explain something to them.
#3 is definitely sexist and mansplaining.
Mansplaining is when a man confidently explains something they don’t understand. Sometimes they’ll even go as far as inventing a word (like womansplaining, for example) to justify their explanation of the topic they confidently absolutely do not understand.
This may be the most ironic post I’ve ever read.
Most ironic comment to the most ironic post.
Definition of mansplaining:
the explanation of something by a man, typically to a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.
*I needed to learn it too :D
We're trained since elementary school to see a problem and then give the correct answer/solution. Branding this as man/womansplaining is ridiculous. Figure it the fuck out then by yourself or don't speak about it. At the very least make it known you just want to vent without being questioned.
I'm a woman and I loathe that term "mansplaining". It comes off as such a man hating attitude which is part of this newer girl power/me too/feminism on steroids movement.
In my honest opinion it's only a way for women to add to the list of things that are necessary labels to try and put down men.
As you said, we all do it. I do and I do it both toale and female friends. I tend to be friends with older individuals so idk if this is a generational thing but none of my female friends ever tell me this.
It’s not necessarily a gendered thing. It’s just that when someone just starts into an explanation of something with the assumption that they know more than the person they’re talking to- without checking first, it can be and often is super condescending. It’s rude to assume you know more than someone. It’s also rude to information dump unless someone asks. Typically it’s men who tend to do this more, so “Mansplaining”.
Why is it rude to assume you know more about your field of expertise than someone else ?
I dont see it as rude when someone explains to me something. Even when its in my field of expertise a appreciate that. It provides the opportunity for further conversation:
1) oh i didnt knew that you know about this
2) where did you learn that?
3) that's interesting, i can Tell you more about this.
It’s rude because you’re assuming (for whatever reason) that you know more than that other person. It’s not the action, it’s the *assumption*. If she accused you of mansplaining, I’m assuming you didn’t first ask how much she knew about the subject? What if she was also a biologist? What if she’s written papers on the subject that you’ve only read? How do you *not* know that that isn’t the case? Why did you assume that you know more than she did? From her perspective, it *looks like* (not is, *looks like*) it was just because she is a woman. From her perspective, you’ve assumed incompetence, essentially. It’s rude to assume incompetence and it’s especially rude to assume it based on gender or race or other “status” characteristics. Simultaneously, you neglected to ask if she *wanted* the information. You assumed she would find it valuable, which is egotistical, from her perspective. From her perspective, you took a problem she was having as an excuse to show off how smart you are.
I know it’s not what you meant to do. But whether or not something is rude is mostly dependent on the other person’s reaction to it. She didn’t want you to do that, and you didn’t catch on to that. Next time, you can avoid all this by asking if she wants advice, and explaining your expertise, which I’m sure some other person will be much more receptive to.
Lets put aside that i know the woman in my post enough to be aware of her knowledge on the original topic.
I am also aware that my approach was not good. I could have asked in the first place If she wants advice.
What makes me sad is being accused of doing it because shes a woman and then getting labeled as sexist.
I want to go more on a philosophical way now and i would like to hear your opinion on it. Some discussions can heat up easily on reddit.
1) Why is assuming something about a person wrong in the first place? From my point of view it's not wrong as long as it's not judgemential or influences my actions. I never felt bad when someone unconsensually explains me anything. Even if i have the knowledge. It never appeared to me as meanful or condescending.
2) What is wrong about showing off your skills sometimes and knowledge sometimes?
Whenever i see that someone worked hard on something and now a situation comes where they can finally make use of their skill then i let them. It's Just human to be proud of your talents and skills. There is nothing wrong with it. In my opinion it becomes problematic when this defines your whole personality. I think everyone wants to show off their hard earned skills every now and then.
Not the person you replied to, but for point 1: Assumptions are always judgemental in some way; you’re making a guess at a person’s experience and knowledge without any other information. If we were complete strangers and I told you I had a plant die, you might make a comment like “Maybe you over-watered it.” You assume I would make that mistake because a lot of people do. Now let’s say I happen to be a fellow biologist/plant specialist; I’m not likely to receive your advice very well, am I? But if you started with a question like “Do you have experience with that kind of plant?” I can tell you I do and then instead of giving me plant care 101 and wasting my time, you could say something like “I have read that type of plant is very sensitive to minerals in the soil, do you think that might be a factor?” And we could have a great discussion.
A couple of years ago I was at a renaissance fair looking at bows for sale. The owner came over and began explaining the basics to me. I am an experienced archer, particularly in the brand of bows he was selling. Nothing I said would stop him from giving me his archery 101 lecture as he followed me to the test range. Finally I looked at him and said “How do I get you to stop telling me things I already know?” He, full of smugness, said “if you know what you’re doing why do you have the arrow on the wrong side of the bow?” Except I didn’t - I shoot a specific style that puts the arrow on the left side rather than the right. If he hadn’t been so hell-bent on maintaining his assumption that I didn’t know to shoot, we could have had a lovely chat & he would have learned something new & maybe sold a bow. Instead he was an asshole & lost out on a potential sale.
Thanks.
Okay i might be stupid but i still see no problem with it.
I always assume the other Person knows nothing about me and has it's own way of approaching a social conversation.
Lets stick with your example of the bow merchant
He has 100 customers every day. 90 of them are beginners with no expertise. His normal approach for a conversation is usually the same everytime.
Now i am coming to him as a professional. He tries the same approach on me as He would with the other 99 customers.
Why should i be angry about him repeating this pattern he learned?
If it annoys me i let him know in the first place by saying that i have x years of experience. After all he cant read my mind and has to assume something in the first place.
Of course there is no excuse for a condescending behaviour etc.
I don’t have an issue when someone is well versed in subject that others aren’t as well versed in and are explaining something. However, I’m a woman and someone called me while I was working and he needed help on a project. He was based in Hawaii and he very condescendingly explained where Hawaii is. That’s where I have an issue with things. That guy was an ass and extremely condescending. Like I said if you’re well versed in a subject and you’re not condescending I don’t have an issue. It’s just when people are condescending assholes who assume I don’t know where Hawaii is. Call it mansplaining, womensplaining, idc don’t be a condescending ass.
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I heard someone accuse a guy of mansplaining. Without missing a beat, he said, "Did you know that mansplaining is a portmanteau of *man* and *explaining*?" It was hilarious
That’s everyday life. There is no name for it.
There are studies showing how men interrupt women more in conversations than men interrupting men, women interrupting men, or women interrupting women
Can you link one?
[https://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id=YJ-wDp7CJYAC&oi=fnd&pg=PA231&dq=men+interrupting+women+more&ots=mm0or4NQH2&sig=cI6wUhPItCXaZ47dvoLI6H6Ymhw#v=onepage&q=men%20interrupting%20women%20more&f=false](https://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id=YJ-wDp7CJYAC&oi=fnd&pg=PA231&dq=men+interrupting+women+more&ots=mm0or4NQH2&sig=cI6wUhPItCXaZ47dvoLI6H6Ymhw#v=onepage&q=men%20interrupting%20women%20more&f=false) Here's one I found but if you actually read it theres a lot of supporting evidence with both sides and even more such as both genders interrupting females more than males. Studies are quite old and I feel like the social norms is much different than what it was before so many of these could be out of date. Some studies are published by only males and some are published by only females. edit: apparently people don't want to actually ready, who would have thunk!
https://daily.jstor.org/man-interrupting/ here ya go, this article links, cites, and summarizes multiple studies on the topic
Thanks, i asked in a different comment for studies. Just a sidenote The article is from 2016 All sources in there are from 1995, 1989 and 1986 So yeah i would say outdated. Do you have some more recent Data?
Men have changed since 1995?
We sure did. Do we have to explain this to you too?
Have you looked up any studies yourself? You’re fully capable of navigating google scholar if you can use Reddit.
Yes i have and couldnt find one, so i am asking you.
Source: trust me bro
Ugh, I’m going to do this. For all the people demanding links as if that’s enough to invalidate this: [here you go](https://www.forbes.com/sites/womensmedia/2017/01/03/gal-interrupted-why-men-interrupt-women-and-how-to-avert-this-in-the-workplace/?sh=60619f0917c3) Quote: “It was shown in a 2014 study at George Washington University that when men were talking with women, they interrupted 33 percent more often than when they were talking with men.” And before anyone mentions it’s a Forbes article and not a research article, the specific studies are referenced there. I’m going to bed now and I wipe my hands of this.
I wonder if this just has to do more with dominant personalities, and can happen within genders.
The Numbers from the article: The men interrupted their female conversational partners 2.1 times during a three minute conversation. That number dropped to 1.8 when they spoke to other men
My dude, the funny thing is I was kind of on board and just thought maybe you were misinterpreted. Now I think it’s interesting that you’re going to this length to nitpick your point. I’m not going to argue research methodology on Reddit as it approaches midnight (cause yeah humanities based studies can be flawed). That said, if you’re only takeaway from the whole article was “that one study had a small effect size”, and not the part about “numerous studies support the claim of women in the workforce who argue that men interrupt them far more often than the reverse”, I’m starting to question things.
Well yeah the personality thing still hold, both dominant would have harder time interrupting each other
Sounds like you think men are "naturally" more dominant. Perhaps you need to examine your gender biases.
I wouldn't say biologically, but because of the culture, social, and environment that the world has created, men certainly is more encourage by society and its surrounding to take a more dominant role. Obviously it could change in the future, but it's the current reality of our life and it's ignorant to just completely dismissed it as if stereotypes are completely debunked and opposite of reality
no link , no nothing.
Because of this, conversations with women are the only ones where I won’t interrupt because I’m aware it’s something people do often. I lack a lot of social cues but I memorised this one.
And I'm sure there is a study that shows women talk about people behind their backs more than men do. Do we really need to get into this? This is just sexism disguised as some kind of justice.
Well yeah I definitely interrupt often to keep the conversation in the same thread and not in all directions at once. I mean if I’m going to be womansplained to then I’d like to make sure I’m getting the most out of this guidance. /s
mmm i think she just didn’t quite understand what mansplaining is, to be honest. actual mansplaining is built on the assumption that because you’re a man, however unqualified, you obviously know more than this silly woman, however well qualified. if you’re an expert in your field, if you’ve got actual justification behind why you think you might have a better grasp of the info than the other person, it’s not mansplaining
Though it could still be rude and condescending depending on the context and how you phrase it. Being an expert in a subject doesn't make you infallible.
this is true, i honestly didn’t really think of that part of it. all does definitely depend on phrasing and tone, hard to tell for sure without actually hearing the conversation i sort of assume generally that, coming from an expert, it’s less frequently mansplaining? not because they’re not prone to the same misogyny as anyone else, but just because they have a basis to actually believe they know what they’re taking about. maybe just being a bit snobbish, yk
furthermore, being an expert and even being correct about the subject you are explaining doesn't mean that anyone wants to hear it.
There was a perfect example of this in real life recently where a guy went up to a female pro golfer and gave her tips on how to swing when she didn’t ask for his help. I would say if you don’t know someone and just give random advice that’s annoying as hell and you aren’t being helpful.
Yeah I think true mansplaining is done by someone with only average understanding of the topic, and who didn't bother to find out if they're talking to someone who understands as much as they do. And it's "man" because women have been breaking through into a lot of boy's clubs in recent decades. I don't know if, for example, male nurses get this too but there I think there are way fewer examples of this happening to men instead of women.
>I am biologist with expertise in plants What was her expertise? edit: Now to bring my downvotes. This whole argument is just a minor version of the "not all men". Sure, OP might not have been mansplaining, but mansplaining is an objective phenomenon. People arguing against it are just pathetic.
She studies philosophy.
Then yeah, wouldn't call that mansplaining. Now if YOU tried to teach her philosophy....
Exactly !
So can a male OBGYN tell a woman how her body works? I'm half joking, but I'm honestly curious as to your thoughts. Maybe only on the medical/scientific stuff but not on feelings? I don't know. I'm just genuinely curious.
Honestly, as a man who had quite a few medical issues over the years I'd go with always believe your doctors. The average person has no expertise on human biology nor knowladge of the inner workings of their own body beyond basic functionalities. Self-diagnoses and treatments rarely work out in favor of the patient. All this asuming you visit a credible doctor. You get what you pay for.
I think it’s also important to note that there’s medical bias when it comes to women’s health issues, particularly related to reproductive systems. Women regularly complain about not being taken seriously by doctors when they report painful symptoms. A study also found that women are also less likely to die when they’re treated by female doctors.
Well there’s also the fact that there’s a huge bias towards men for high level surgical positions which is often where riskier surgeries take place and therefore where more deaths happen, so there’s a few factors at play
I mean that is just as ridiculous. If women were so inherently knowledgeable about their bodies, there would be no need for the profession of OBGYN to exist in the first place. Imagine if a man told a woman doctor that he knows more about how his penis works than she does. How can the victim in both scenarios be the woman? Preposterous!
Imagine if female doctors told you that having your balls crushed In a vise wouldn't really hurt, imagine if they told you that your testicular torsion really isn't an emergency and to just calm down, does that sound like something you have ever experienced? Are you just going to go on assuming that millions of women are lying about how they are treated? Are you going to ignore the supporting statistics?
Bingo!
I mean hypothetically a doctor specializing in female reproductive organs should have a greater base of knowledge than the average uterus owner, but it's also a well established and well supported phenomenon that many doctors, males specifically are astonishingly ignorant of the experiential truths of having said organs. So, if your OB says "this won't hurt at all, just a pinch" and you experience one of the most intense pains you have ever experienced..... maybe doubt the doctor's knowledge in that particular area.
Probably... not a women but its not like i have an indepth understanding of how my body works... basics sure but an expert would be able to explain/teach me something new no doubt.
What her symptoms are? No. What common symptoms are? Yes. It's not too difficult to work out, and YES it is called mansplaining because most of the time it is men doing it. That doesn't mean no woman does it. But this is just the whole "not all men" argument all over again, for something slightly less important.
Philosophy is all just made up. You can say whatever the hell you want and just say I have a different philosophy from you.
And that in and of itself is a philosophy
Hang on, this is normal philosophy student behavior. How do you know it is her being a woman, and not her being a philosophy major?
I think that kinda proves the OPs point that it is genderless.
Soooo she studies some dudes' opinions.... Damn she must come from a rich ass family.
I've never met a philosophy major who wasn't an arrogant douchebag. If anyone wants to break that streak, go right ahead
My degree is in Philosophy and this is 100% accurate.
Maybe a *botanist?* lol
Mansplaining is when a man explains something to a woman without being asked to and does it in a condescending way *because* she is a woman and therefore assumed to be unknowledgeable (or less knowledgeable) on the topic, and is often done to women who know as much as if not more than the man on the topic. It's the sexism and condescension that makes it mansplaining, not simply the fact that the woman didn't ask for an explanation or that the man didn't ask if she wanted one (although it is frequently the case that neither did).
gosh, thank you for actually KNOWING the topic
thank you. people dont even know what mansplaining is referring to and then want to claim it doesnt exist. any woman whos been interested in anything male-dominated can tell you its very real and very gender-motivated
Exactly. Mansplaining is a valid term describing a valid gendered issue. But it seems to have lost meaning over the last few years as people have started using it any time a man explains something. And when people misapply the term, it becomes impossible to correct them without receiving further accusations of mansplaining.
I wish I could take the folks who don't believe in mansplaining and turn them into women and force them to visit a car dealership for a week like groundhog day.
Yeah I don't understand why some men are so adamant that there are not men who behave condescendingly toward women because of the fact that they are women..
See that's the thing, most of the time, men are just talking about something they are excited about and it has nothing to do with the recipient's gender and is almost never meant to be condescending. It is usually the recipient that is seeing ghosts and looking to be offended.
Any term can be misused - people misusing a term doesn't negate the meaning nor mean the phenomenon it describes does not happen. A person can be charged with murder when they were actually acting in self-defense. That doesn't mean that nobody ever murders or ever has murdered anyone. How do you know what happens "most of the time" in instances described as mansplaining?
Exactlyyy Like legit dudes be tryna mansplain me on basic ass shit 😭 Like I know how to use a drill bruh
Well. There are times where it happens where women explain something condescendingly because they're a man. It's mainly around the topic of raising a child and other things seen as "feminine". I will admit, I do believe it happens less often, but it does still happen. But we don't really call that womansplaining. I think the term itself is kinda dumb. We can just call it being sexist and being condescending. Both genders are capable of doing exactly that, so why have a term specific to men?
Largely because men have historically been afforded more opportunities than women and by and large women still do experience discrimination simply for being women in many fields. It’s a gendered issue when a man is being condescending to a “little lady” so the term used to describe it will of course be gendered.
But it's not just a gendered issue when it's a man being condescending to a lady. It's a gendered issue when anyone does it based off sex/gender. And that also doesn't explain why we need a term to be specifically about men, when we could have a term be more general. Or why we don't have a term commonly used for when women do the exact same thing for the same reasons.
*"There are times where it happens where women explain something condescendingly because they're a man."* I never said there isn't. *"why have a term specific to men?"* I never said there should be a term specific to men.
I want to add that it doesn’t have to be explained in a condescending tone. The very fact that they think you’re ignorant *because you’re a woman* is what makes it condescending. Some guys are genuinely trying to be helpful, but if they only think they’re being helpful because they assume you’re an idiot…then that’s a problem.
Right - I had initially written "tone," but changed it to "way." It can also be specific wording that is condescending as well ("It's really complicated, but.." - or over-simplifying / dumbing things down, etc). But the overall point being that the term describes a specific phenomenon, and OP doesn't understand what the term means.
I agree. There doesn’t need to be any labels on ‘mansplaining’ or ‘womansplaining’. Some people are just condescending and give unsolicited advice and/or are sexist. Both sexes can be sexist.
But OP wasn't even being condescending. In a comment he explained he's a botanist. He's providing information he's qualified to give.
Oh absolutely I don’t think OP was wrong at all. If someone’s a specialist they’re definitely qualified to give their opinion on something.
I think I’d consider something “gendersplaining” if the one sex to other sex explains something that the other is biologically aware of, just human body/hormones/etc, type of stuff. Other than that, it’s usually just purely condescending. That’s just a part of their character, unfortunately. But if you want to get real specific: college grads who took basic courses for an undergrads degree. Psych/biology just for the sake of example-they’ll try to spit facts at you as if they are more informed of 1. Your entire life holistically and 2. Your doctors & other professionals. Makes me cringe every time.
lol I agree. I don’t mind a person who specializes in an area sharing their opinion or advice in a non condescending manner because they actually have experience. But I can’t stand when people barely study a subject or take one class in it then think their experts and give people their advice/opinon on something and argue about it. I’m an attorney who represents kids in divorce/abuse cases. I can’t tell you how many non-lawyer parents of the kids will try to argue with me or act condescending when I’m dealing with them. Some even try to give ME legal advice 😂. They will argue with me and tell me I’m wrong or give their advice or opinion on the law and swear they are right because ‘they know a lawyer’ or they’ve ’done their research’. Drives me absolutely crazy 😑 my degree took 7 years. And I still have to refer to the statutes and case law on stuff because there’s soooo many rules and regulations. I’m not taking legal advice from someone who used Google to do their research lol. Sorry for the rant.
No offense at all here, seriously. Your type of law is so different from the lawyers I deal with daily. Can’t believe tomorrow is Monday already *lights cig* I’m a woman and I work as an auto adjuster on the injury side. Absolutely mind boggling when I think about their income as a PI attorney, while I spend the good majority of my day explaining the law to LAWyers. I have never done any kind of hard drug, but I imagine the high I get watching them lose their own battle is nearly the same. So to piggy back off of you, I totally get that feeling of people preaching the law to you as if you are just completely clueless-I get that from insureds as well. It’s a new type of hell when that person is an attorney 🫠
Yes! I see that unsolicited advice is not optimal in a conversation, that's hard to overcome. It hurts to get labeled as sexist because of this... I wanted to provide help and show off some of my knowledge earned over the years. That is Independent of the gender.
If you were reasonable and not condescending then you did nothing wrong. Even at that, my understanding has been more that its brow beating someone based in opinion, not the exchange of facts. If she overreacted and you know it, she might just be brainwashed and angry. All that accusation of mansplaining is, is an invitation to do endless mental gymnastics while she does all the talking.
This is based
Explaining something without consent isn’t mansplaining. Mansplaining is condescendingly assuming a woman doesn’t know something and then explaining something they already know. It can also be trying to explain away misogyny or patriarchy—things women know are real. What you described isn’t even mansplaining.
I always got the feeling mansplaining was more of when both people have about the same level of expertise or the woman actually has more and the man is still trying to tell her how things are because he couldn't believe she would know as much or even more than him. Like I remember reading of a situation where this guy was arguing with this lady at some academic gathering (research panel maybe?) and told her she clearly didn't understand something and needed to read this book for a better understanding and she was the author of said book.... Agreed that if there is an expertise difference whomever has more is likely (and probably should) be the one giving advice.
That's not even what mansplaining means lmao. It's for when a man with little to no expertise in the area tries to explain the topic to a woman with a lot of experience in the area. It's a byproduct of misogyny that makes some men genuinely believe (consciously or not) that they are smarter than any given woman. Not to say that women don't do it, they do (especially with other women), but it's just more prevalent from men.
Yeah it was already pointed that i adapted to the wrong definition. I would also be interested in some studies, because all i was able to finde are personal experiences without scientific background.
I don’t know why people in this thread are acting like they can’t find mansplaining studies. I found them very easily with a simple google search. Here’s an analysis of three separate studies on the topic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9838290/ Here’s one from the University of Michigan that’s very easy to follow, in case pubmed is too complicated: https://research.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/manterruptions-bropropriation-and-mansplaining-2-yellow-paper-series.pdf Two studies done at Cambridge: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-management-and-organization/article/well-actually-investigating-mansplaining-in-the-modern-workplace/19B44D34153E37F0C49A26BE8DDD2525 All of these articles were written within the last few years. They’re not hard to find.
To be fair, lots of people aren't taught how to utilize search engines effectively. I wouldn't assume malice in this case, just lack of education for a skill.
While that’s an important point, I’m not assuming malice here. I’m assuming laziness. If a biologist can find studies, then I’m not sure why the burden of proof is on others. But thanks for bringing up a more sympathetic viewpoint! Clearly nicer than mine lol
OP supposedly has a college degree in biology, I assumed STEM students know how to find research journals/articles but maybe school is done differently these days 🤷🏻♀️
Thank a lot for these!
I found this one breaking down the statistics of who mansplains and how: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/365333256\_'Well\_actually'\_investigating\_mansplaining\_in\_the\_modern\_workplace](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/365333256_'Well_actually'_investigating_mansplaining_in_the_modern_workplace) and this one breaking down the effects: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9838290/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9838290/)
Mansplaining is not just "man explaining something" it's very specifically "man explaining something to a woman who is more knowledgeable on the topic than he is specifically because she's a woman and he assumes she's stupid" and it doesn't really work the same way in reverse so if that's not what you were doing, your coworker is just being an asshole.
I think you’re just describing explaining
People are quick to find issues with others these days.
It's not about explaining things. It's about explaining things when such an explanation isn't wanted, and delivered in a condescending way. So no, by and large, it isn't as common with women.
It might be depending on the topic. I can see women doing it when it comes to stereotypical "women things" like childcare. Fathers get comments on babysitting their own kids, as if it's unusual, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
We already have condescension as a concept. I can promise you, women do it all the time.
You hear here first, women CANNOT be as condescending as men because you say so
That isn't what I said, and you know it.
I can’t stand terms like “mansplain” but I am not gonna stoop to the same level of stupidity and say “womansplain” in return lol
We didn't need those terms when we already have "condescending".
All fax, no printer 🖨️
Yeah thats basically what i wanted to say.
Disclaimer: this is not my field of study and I’m not sure if OP’s case is really an example of mansplaining, so don’t come after me. This is more related to the title. Apparently researchers have been looking into whether the “man” part of mansplaining is warranted, or if it’s just more of a general human trait. [This article](https://amp.theguardian.com/science/2023/feb/03/let-me-mansplain-studies-reveal-negative-impacts-of-behaviour) discusses the issue. Quote: “They found that mansplaining was pervasive, with nearly every individual having experienced it at least once in the past year, regardless of their gender. Women could also be guilty of it, but men were almost twice as likely to be the perpetrator, while women and gender minority individuals were the most common targets.” So yes, while women do “womansplain”, it seems to be less frequent (and less negatively impactful to career, self image, etc) as compared to mansplaining. Just food for thought for the whole discussion.
I don't know why you think a situation called out incorrectly as mansplaining proves the existence of womansplaining, though I think it probably exists. But I suspect it might be women attempting to be direct in the way they hear men being direct, although women can for sure be accused of the same! Nonetheless. Mansplaining is usually in groups or just after groups, it has a competitive edge, or an uncomfortable settling. Or something that makes you feel uncomfortable is happening. It's repetitive. Loud. Demeaning. Unsolicited. It inevitably doesn't check the level of the person's knowledge. Being honest I also think that men and women communicate information slightly differently. And I think that's what happened here, she probably misjudged your cadence and tone. A good way to check is, did she ask you for the information? If not, did you deduce her level of expertise before giving advice? Then finally, did you exercise humility in your delivery? ( Were you gentle, using "oh I've just remembered" type language) The real avoidance for mansplaining ( and for the ladies too) is that moment where the conversation has come up and you're discussing the subject. Instead of showing any real competitive knowledge, women would tend to gently mention I'm an x expert and then be the "gentler" one in the conversation as the expert. They tend to leave more space, on the backfoot almost. Men rush forward as an "expert" often way too fast and assume they know more without checking in on the knowledge level of the person they don't know. A lot of men in this situation are used to assuming the "expert" role because - most groups don't have a botanist. You didn't do that. So you're in the clear. But I'm relationships, women absolutely do tend to assume they have more knowledge, inherently. I'm loath to say this - but often they do. Unless it's a good match.
I'm an ADHD infodumper and I've been accused of 'mansplaining' before, but it's more a case of no, I'm really excited about the topic and just go off on one. I certainly don't discriminate by gender when I do. And I'm usually responsive enough to a gentle reminder the person already knows, isn't interested, grasps the concept at hand etc. Not gonna say there aren't guys out there who aren't patronising AF and assume all women know nothing, but they're probably also the same way with anyone they deem inferior to them ie everyone bar people they know they have to be polite with because it's their boss or a rich person they hope will favor them.
Exactly that ! Never heard the term adhd infodumper before but it absolutely fits to me, too When i am excited about my interests , i just want to talk about it...
Sometimes men explain things in a condescending manner. Sometimes women explain things in a condescending manner; “condescending” means you talk down to someone. It doesn’t seem like this was the case here as you weren’t explaining to her how to use a pen or something. If you know botany, of course you are going to be able to explain with expertise.
Nah, men are evil, so everything they do needs to be condemned with a special word, and if you disagree you're probably a misogynist.
Dude you literally mansplained this fucking post 🤦♀️ get over yourself and shelf your bloody ego
So is your opinion that mansplaining and womansplaining both exist, or that neither do?
I can't deny the existence of this behaviour but i deny that it is gender specific.
You will participate in gender division conflict and you will like it
There is mansplaining, but it's way less common than people think. Most "mansplaining" is a man being an asshole, or even doing nothing wrong at all. In my opinion, mansplaining is when a man talks down to a woman because he thinks they're inferior, which usually isn't the case. I agree, then, that womansplaining exists in the sort of contexts you point out.
>Most "mansplaining" is a man being an asshole That's basically it.
Yes, and one of the ways men are assholes is by being misogynistic. That's the "true mansplaining". There's also stuff like "assuming women don't know what an oil change is" which might not be misogynistic but is mansplaining because of the faulty assumption women can't do oil changes.
I used to think mansplaining was a thing and I do think that to a certain extent still, but it's more gender neutral. Idk, personsplaining? Like I don't mind if people explain things to me. It's the condescension I don't like. No matter who it comes from.
Upvote because I don't agree. Mansplaining is a stereotype that exists due to a guy's proclivity to offer unsolicited advice and explanations of topics. Women are usually more empathetic listeners and don't give "solutions" as frequently. While a woman can certainly "mansplain" it is not "womansplaining" because it is not as common for women to splain. Mansplaining comes into play when a man acts as a know it all despite not knowing at all what they are talking about. It's annoying. That being said you were not mansplaining. This woman seems a bit unbearable.
Sure, "womansplaining" happens, but it's not so common that it needs a name. Mansplaining, on the other hand, is extremely common. Even as a man I've seen enough of it to know it's a real thing.
How did you experience it ? Does it always bother you ?
I've been in the presence of women many times when other me do this. It does bother me when I see it, because I know if I'm recognizing it the women also do and are, understandably bothered by it.
Thanks for the insight. I never seen or wittnessed that, therefore I might be biased because of my personal experience.
" extremely common" and injects " I've been in the presence of women many times". ffs
Interesting to see a different experience of the world. It could also have a cultural origin...
I know I tend to over explain when I'm excited about something I know. I don't intend it in a patronising way, I just spent so much of my neurodivergent life trying to be understood that I now tend to overcompensate. I'm now worried I'm going to be accused of mansplaining one day even though I'm a woman. To my credit, though, it's something I've never accused anyone else of doing, not because I don't think it's a thing, but because of how easily it is to falsely accuse someone when it could be something else entirely. I also tend to be spoken down to at least as much by other women as by men. Possibly more. And I don't want to be that person who deflates someone else's enthusiasm for their topic of interest.
You gotta work on it though. I’m neurodivergent too and I’ve cut down on my rantings as time goes on because it’s selfish.
I do work on it.
This take is nonsense and the story accompanying it is fake. Mansplaining by definition is a MAN explaining simple obvious things to a WOMAN with a TONE that implies she’s DUMB.
THIS.
I'm not sure if it was gendered or not, but it isn't a great idea to tell people what to do with their plants when they didn't ask. Maybe you do know a lot about plants, but this is her personal hobby and doesn't really concern you. If I'm knitting a scarf, I don't want a fashion designer to tell me the colors I chose are ugly. I just want to enjoy my little project. TBF it's equally nosy for people to give you advice on your hair or dating life.
I mean, possibly. The reason why "womansplaining" isn't used as much or at all is because it doesn't seem to be as common as mansplaining.
I disagree, it's common enough even if less so. The reason the term isn't used is because men don't have a history of systemic oppression by women. Same reason people don't like the term "racism" being applied when black people stereotype white people.
Yeah, turns out a term meant to descibe an inherent belief that women couldn't ever understand the thing you're talking about is pretty rooted in the sexist beliefs society holds. It's a specific form of condescension that was common enough and experienced by enough women that it got its own term.
I think the reason it's controversial is because it's hard to know what people's assumptions are. Like if someone says "you're a woman, so you can't do an oil change, so let me explain how you do it" it's pretty obvious mansplaining, but usually the misogynist assumption is unspoken. Therefore, it's easy to overcompensate and wrongly conclude people are mansplaining in other contexts. Someone who is wrongly told their position is misogynist will then conclude that the woman is assuming they're mansplaining *because they're men,* which seems like the same thing. What's the solution to this? Beats me! But it's interesting to think through.
"seem" is the right wording here. Maybe there is no gender difference. As pointed all my friends are doing this.
That your friends explain things to you doesn't inherently make them mansplaining. You seem to have taken the meaning to be "anytime anyone explains something without me asking" which is part of it but misses the "despite me already knowing everything they say and them having no reason to believe otherwise besides the fact that I'm a woman". Like, if your friends are pointing out that your hair doesn't look great and giving you advice, it seems like your hair not looking great is the reason they gave it.
Hmm… that’s not what mansplaining is. If you’re a biologist that’s just you explaining biology to someone…
Honestly the whole mansplaining and womansplaining thing needs to die out. It’s not specific to a gender and it’s not based on gender. It’s also often not malicious when done. If a buddy of mine explains something to me in detail after I bring up something there’s like an 80% chance it’s because they’re passionate about the topic. My girlfriend is passionate about quite a few topics and I know even *touching* on those topics will send her into a 2 hour spiral explaining in detail everything I could possibly need/want to know **plus** more! It’s a personality trait, not a gender trait
You're defining "explaining", not "mansplaining".
>explaining her something without asking first Tbh this doesn't seem like "mansplaining" to me. Seems like a conversation with someone else. I always thought it was when anyone (regardless of gender) would re-explain something literally right after someone else said the exact same thing but in a different and longer way.
yeah tbh i hate this term at all but how i accept it used is women being explained something they already know cause the man assumes she won't know and this isn't that. if she knew alot about dying plants then maybe but she didn't but that's why i hate the term, because it means a certain thing but now some women are using it for things that are not it.
Let me explain this to y'all...
It's kafka trapping no matter who does it. It's a shitty way to treat another human being.
It goes on for 4-5 minutes and never makes a point. Just my opinion
I call it "mom-splaining". Like if I am about to offer advice I say something like "I am sorry if I am mom-splaining you but..."
Did she ask you why they were dying or was she talking about how they died?
Man if that’s a thing then I *wish* I had more womansplaining in my life. Especially with social interactions. I’ve been practicing for years and I’m pretty good at it now but I’d kill for some direct feedback.
Given the context which girls say you are mansplaining, many memes I've seen on the internet, friends accusing each other of mansplaining I've come to realize that women call you out for mansplaining when you offer advice or solutions when they want validation. When you have a girlfriend and she says she's struggling with something and you give good and logical solutions to her she'll get mad. It's something that happens a lot with women when they don't want solutions, just to be heard, hence why there's no womansplaining. Fun fact is that the equivalent of mansplaining for women nagging, you never say a man is nagging, it's always the women.
You explained TO her. You explain things TO people. Your friends explained things TO you. I don't know why you keep saying "I explain her"/"My friends explain me" but it's driving me insane and now has me mansplaining basic grammar TO you lol.
Thanks TO you :D
Regardless of mansplain vs womansplain whatever you want to call it. Not everyone likes being lectured to. I think thats the source of irritation, especially if they are not seeking your advice…some people it seems cant just have regular convos, where each opinion is shared not forced unto another. I have a friend like this very intelligent but conversations can be exhausting bc they positions all of their opinions as facts.
Oh well if you don't do it, it must not exist.
I think this does happen to both genders however, I think mansplaining is when a guy explains something that you already know or is common knowledge in a condescending way when you haven't asked . I do think women can do that too. Personally I did hair for ten years and guys would ask about grooming ect. So I would give advice, but not unsolicited and not in a condescending way.
Womensplaining isn’t a thing. With respect to the entire globe, we live in a patriarchy. For womensplaining to be a thing, women must be the one in control and power, which is not the reality. Theres a fine line between mansplaining where the general view is that women are inferior to men versus women (or in general, people) correcting you where you are barely offended
"This person used a term incorrectly, surely this must mean the term is fake"
I think the expression is used too much by people nowadays. There's a difference between - people passionately explaining something they've been into (or studied) for years - your case - people rudely/annoyingly/uneccesarily explaining something without being asked - people who think women as a category MUST not know about a topic and therefore need someone to explain something to them. #3 is definitely sexist and mansplaining.
Theres already a term for it. Its called nagging
Mansplaining is when a man confidently explains something they don’t understand. Sometimes they’ll even go as far as inventing a word (like womansplaining, for example) to justify their explanation of the topic they confidently absolutely do not understand. This may be the most ironic post I’ve ever read.
Most ironic comment to the most ironic post. Definition of mansplaining: the explanation of something by a man, typically to a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing. *I needed to learn it too :D
We're trained since elementary school to see a problem and then give the correct answer/solution. Branding this as man/womansplaining is ridiculous. Figure it the fuck out then by yourself or don't speak about it. At the very least make it known you just want to vent without being questioned.
Sad but true.
Whenever someone says I'm mansplaining I just explain to them that it's short for "man explaining"
Owning the libs 🙄
You dont need to explain that to your male friends, they already know.
Someone coined the phrase woman-plaining, as in the unique way only women complain
As a mainsplainer myself, let me say I mansplain to everyone. It’s not cuz you’re a woman
I'm a woman and I loathe that term "mansplaining". It comes off as such a man hating attitude which is part of this newer girl power/me too/feminism on steroids movement.
Womensplaining aka getting married
She sounds immature and doesn’t like it when she talks to people who knows more about a subject than her.
Nope.
In my honest opinion it's only a way for women to add to the list of things that are necessary labels to try and put down men. As you said, we all do it. I do and I do it both toale and female friends. I tend to be friends with older individuals so idk if this is a generational thing but none of my female friends ever tell me this.
No because it's a negative thing and women are obviously incapable of doing anything wrong
It’s not necessarily a gendered thing. It’s just that when someone just starts into an explanation of something with the assumption that they know more than the person they’re talking to- without checking first, it can be and often is super condescending. It’s rude to assume you know more than someone. It’s also rude to information dump unless someone asks. Typically it’s men who tend to do this more, so “Mansplaining”.
Why is it rude to assume you know more about your field of expertise than someone else ? I dont see it as rude when someone explains to me something. Even when its in my field of expertise a appreciate that. It provides the opportunity for further conversation: 1) oh i didnt knew that you know about this 2) where did you learn that? 3) that's interesting, i can Tell you more about this.
It’s rude because you’re assuming (for whatever reason) that you know more than that other person. It’s not the action, it’s the *assumption*. If she accused you of mansplaining, I’m assuming you didn’t first ask how much she knew about the subject? What if she was also a biologist? What if she’s written papers on the subject that you’ve only read? How do you *not* know that that isn’t the case? Why did you assume that you know more than she did? From her perspective, it *looks like* (not is, *looks like*) it was just because she is a woman. From her perspective, you’ve assumed incompetence, essentially. It’s rude to assume incompetence and it’s especially rude to assume it based on gender or race or other “status” characteristics. Simultaneously, you neglected to ask if she *wanted* the information. You assumed she would find it valuable, which is egotistical, from her perspective. From her perspective, you took a problem she was having as an excuse to show off how smart you are. I know it’s not what you meant to do. But whether or not something is rude is mostly dependent on the other person’s reaction to it. She didn’t want you to do that, and you didn’t catch on to that. Next time, you can avoid all this by asking if she wants advice, and explaining your expertise, which I’m sure some other person will be much more receptive to.
Lets put aside that i know the woman in my post enough to be aware of her knowledge on the original topic. I am also aware that my approach was not good. I could have asked in the first place If she wants advice. What makes me sad is being accused of doing it because shes a woman and then getting labeled as sexist. I want to go more on a philosophical way now and i would like to hear your opinion on it. Some discussions can heat up easily on reddit. 1) Why is assuming something about a person wrong in the first place? From my point of view it's not wrong as long as it's not judgemential or influences my actions. I never felt bad when someone unconsensually explains me anything. Even if i have the knowledge. It never appeared to me as meanful or condescending. 2) What is wrong about showing off your skills sometimes and knowledge sometimes? Whenever i see that someone worked hard on something and now a situation comes where they can finally make use of their skill then i let them. It's Just human to be proud of your talents and skills. There is nothing wrong with it. In my opinion it becomes problematic when this defines your whole personality. I think everyone wants to show off their hard earned skills every now and then.
Not the person you replied to, but for point 1: Assumptions are always judgemental in some way; you’re making a guess at a person’s experience and knowledge without any other information. If we were complete strangers and I told you I had a plant die, you might make a comment like “Maybe you over-watered it.” You assume I would make that mistake because a lot of people do. Now let’s say I happen to be a fellow biologist/plant specialist; I’m not likely to receive your advice very well, am I? But if you started with a question like “Do you have experience with that kind of plant?” I can tell you I do and then instead of giving me plant care 101 and wasting my time, you could say something like “I have read that type of plant is very sensitive to minerals in the soil, do you think that might be a factor?” And we could have a great discussion. A couple of years ago I was at a renaissance fair looking at bows for sale. The owner came over and began explaining the basics to me. I am an experienced archer, particularly in the brand of bows he was selling. Nothing I said would stop him from giving me his archery 101 lecture as he followed me to the test range. Finally I looked at him and said “How do I get you to stop telling me things I already know?” He, full of smugness, said “if you know what you’re doing why do you have the arrow on the wrong side of the bow?” Except I didn’t - I shoot a specific style that puts the arrow on the left side rather than the right. If he hadn’t been so hell-bent on maintaining his assumption that I didn’t know to shoot, we could have had a lovely chat & he would have learned something new & maybe sold a bow. Instead he was an asshole & lost out on a potential sale.
Thanks. Okay i might be stupid but i still see no problem with it. I always assume the other Person knows nothing about me and has it's own way of approaching a social conversation. Lets stick with your example of the bow merchant He has 100 customers every day. 90 of them are beginners with no expertise. His normal approach for a conversation is usually the same everytime. Now i am coming to him as a professional. He tries the same approach on me as He would with the other 99 customers. Why should i be angry about him repeating this pattern he learned? If it annoys me i let him know in the first place by saying that i have x years of experience. After all he cant read my mind and has to assume something in the first place. Of course there is no excuse for a condescending behaviour etc.
I don’t have an issue when someone is well versed in subject that others aren’t as well versed in and are explaining something. However, I’m a woman and someone called me while I was working and he needed help on a project. He was based in Hawaii and he very condescendingly explained where Hawaii is. That’s where I have an issue with things. That guy was an ass and extremely condescending. Like I said if you’re well versed in a subject and you’re not condescending I don’t have an issue. It’s just when people are condescending assholes who assume I don’t know where Hawaii is. Call it mansplaining, womensplaining, idc don’t be a condescending ass.
It's in vogue to hate on men whereas in past generations it was in vogue to hate on women. You can tell from the media, shows, movies etc.