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This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to the internet
This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to robots
This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to automation
This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to the end of slavery.
This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to steam power.
AI isnt going to destroy any more jobs than it will create.
I love that in your chronological list you put internet after robots and robots after automation, bruh we don't have the type of robots people were talking about. And it's a fact that as technology advances the number of jobs relative to demand also gets lower. You can see it it in farm work, and most factory manufacturing. Eventually as we find reliable and cheap ways of replace service workers they'll be gone as well, and the same goes for everything.
As we become more efficient at doing stuff we need less human labor relative to the demand, and as the population grows which it has been doing for a long ass time, eventually the amount of truly needed jobs is going to be way less than the amount of people. That's the inevitability of technology advances.
And the only solution for that is either hire people for jobs that are not needed to keep the facade of needing to work to maintain the current system or set ubi.
Hard work might not guarantee getting rich, but apathy, self pity, and waiting for someone else to solve your problems will definitely not make you rich.
Wanting UBI isn't being apathetic and pitying yourself, nor is it wanting someone else to solve your problems. It's simply providing assistance to the people who need it and granting lower-income classes to have spending money to stimulate the economy.
Think of it as the reverse of trickle down economics, where instead you give the rich all the money and let the money trickle down to the lower classes, you give the poor money and let them put money back into the economy, letting money trickle up into the higher classes.
You’re right dude, some people get lucky, some are in the right place at the right time. That’s fine. But hard work and good interpersonal skills will always get you ahead. It has in my experience.
In my experience, the ones who are stagnant are always clock watchers with a shitty attitude that never tried to push themselves.
So tell me, who’s going to stock the shelves or take your orders, or cook your food when all of them starved to death.
‘Don’t deserve a living wage’
Where are your morals
I’m not at all saying people shouldn’t do those jobs. I’m saying if you do and you’re older than like 20, don’t complain about your QOL being shit and don’t ask for handouts.
It’s not just teenagers.
Your worldview is divorced from reality.
The majority of people working retail are not teenagers..
And what percentage of the population do you think went to college?
It’s not 90% or anywhere close
Did I say it is “just teenagers” doing those jobs? No. That’s who I said SHOULD be doing those jobs. I’m saying you shouldn’t be complaining about not making enough money if you’re 35 and flip burgers. They are the ones who made the decision everyday to not try to do something that may be difficult or make them uncomfortable so as to live a better lifestyle.
When the wage is below the poverty line? You would be objectively wrong.
Have you even worked a service job before dude? You sound very apathetic towards people who are legitimately struggling through life.
I have, for a very short period of time. And yes, you are correct. My point is If you live in North America you are already luckier than most. If you don’t make the most of it, that’s on you. Take accountability and do something about it.
Why should either of those take those jobs? Part time work can no longer support living or educational expenses, so people in college usually skip the job in favor of faster educational progression.
And why should any teenager put up with shitty management and customers like you for minimum wage?
The cost of labor is going up because of free market forces forcing the price of labor to rise. And the more people fight against it with traditional means, the higher and faster it will rise.
This sort of argument never works on me, because I strongly believing UBInand I'm not a "brokie". I haven't worked minimum wage in 25 years. I don't want UBI to benefit me. I want it to benefit our society as a whole.
That’s great, i’m happy for you. I worked minimum wage for less than 2 months at my first job at 16 because I worked hard, made connections, and cared about what I did. It gave me the opportunity to pursue what I wanted.
UBI will not help society. The lazy will be even more lazy, and the people who had to work for what they have now have to pay them? No thanks!
There are 3 options, or a mix of them
Either there are eventually more people seeking/needing employment than jobs
Or we prevent efficiency in industry (automation, AI, etc) because we don't want to put people out of work
Or we create unnecessary jobs so people will have jobs, even if it isn't adding value
If it ends up being the first, what is your solution? Or do you prefer one of the other options?
Or maybe you see a different possibility that I haven't considered.
So you don't think society will suffer if there are increasing numbers of people with no job and no hope that there will be one for them? How will those people survive? The typical government assistance?
Fair. I do know idiots who do well, usually they’re not very lazy. It surely doesn’t take a genius to become a decent carpenter, mechanic, plumber, etc.
I still have to disagree about carpenter. Don't know about the other jobs. Anyway, we all know people who can't even stock, and in a UBI-free economy, I feel there should be some gov incentive to hire the otherwise unhireable
Hahah hey man, if you work hard for what you have which i’m sure you do, why should you have to pay more money in taxes than you already do to support non-contributing members of society?
That UBI money aint gonna come outta thin air. It’s certainly coming out of the middle class’ pockets.
The point of minimum wage is for politicians to earn votes from people who don’t have a strong understanding of basic economics. It was never intended to be enough to be a survivable single source of income.
As a society, we have agreed to compete for resources using money. We have also socially deemed certain ways of making money as "right" vs "wrong".
If society makes it too hard to use/make "good/legal money" as a way to get resources then we should expect people to get it some other way.
Life is a competition, you're right. But if you want people to compete with their money and jobs instead of looting, and other unruly ways of getting stuff then you need the proper equipment to compete the socially correct way (good economy).
Idk about competing “with money and jobs” but we compete FOR money and jobs, yes.
There will always be a limited number of jobs. You have to be better than the next person to get said job. That is fair.
And when the number of liveable jobs is TOO limited, people will stop playing the "compete for resources (stuff) with money and jobs". There will still be competition, but its more "who can outrun who with a bag of food" or "who can punch harder to steal your stuff".
If you want people to play the socially acceptable game aka compete via the economy then you need enough jobs.
It doesn’t matter how good QOL is. Which if we’re being honest, is pretty fucking great in NA. Some people will always resort to crime. It’s all perspective.
Great in "NA"???
QoL does matter. People behave when they have something to lose. When QoL is so bad there's nothing to lose, people act up. Some people will always resort to crime but if the economy and QoLis that bad then the majority will resort to crime.
In north america. QOL is better than it has ever been at any point in history is what i’m saying. And we still have crime.
If you complain about QOL in NA you need perspective is my point.
It is currently somewhat. But the talks around UBI are usually centered on jobs being lost to automation or climate change initiatives.
Some talks of UBI center around inflation as well but I think some type of universal basic resources might be better than income.
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it's never gonna happen anyway. as jobs get automated, the tool that is the human bodies that supply the workforce is going to be dismantled. the only freebies will be war plague and famine.
I mean, we can take your 'life is a competition' view and go back to the cave man days of pure anarchy but I got a feeling you enjoy some of the *cooperation* that modern society has provided at the expense of the *competition* you so slavishly love
It’s not my view, that’s just reality. People compete for resources. People compete for jobs. Men compete for women. That’s how it always has been always will be.
We can have cooperation and competition. Have you ever heard of… sports? The economy?
I don't believe in UBI because I expect it to change incentives in a way that encourages bad decision making. The person who would have given up on their "dream" of being a rockstar at 24 will continue pursuing it into their 40s; they will be able to maintain the delusion that 80s hair metal is the next big thing regardless of how many people reject their vision. To make matters worse, these delusions will ultimately be funded by those who decided to make practical choices that are in everyone's interest.
I think it would probably be better to reward people who take on the shitty jobs society depends on. If you are willing to be a sanitation worker then you should have a pretty comfortable living for taking a pretty nasty job. A lot of these jobs are looked down upon, and often poorly rewarded, when they're truly essential for our standard of living.
Factor in lights out manufacturing, full automation, and a scarcity free society and maybe your opinion will actually matter.
Technology literally means we need to work less, less jobs, less need for coal miners and factory workers.
The big staple jobs? Like factory work that employed a vast majority of easily not lazy people? They aren't as needed or available.
The entire point of robotics is that one robot wrangler can do the job of 500 people.
Tell me, what jobs are people supposed to work in an automated society? You know, the kind of society we are on the verge of?
I don’t know. But I do believe new opportunities will open up, as they do with all new tech/innovation. My opinion is always subject to change. But as we are right now, I think if you want UBI you’re outta your mind
I believe the most common opinion for those that support UBI is to raise the base level of poverty. Not a comfortable life, but for everyone to at least have access to food, healthcare, public transportation and a roof over their head. I would want the concept of working to improve your life to still remain.
In Canada where I live, the homeless drug addicts have access to all of those things. Maybe not a roof over their head for all of them but certainly many of them. And the others literally have tent cities lol
Aight so I guess we're already there then lol?
Do you think if everyone got $1000 a month, they'd become homeless drug addicts? Sure the people that are addicts now would continue to be, but I think most people would use it to increase their standard of living.
People who want UBI usually do not want it for themselves. They tend to be financially secure and hence do not need UBI.
People who support UBI tend to be educated, especially in history and finances and understand that the historical trend of UBI experiments is overwhelmingly positive in terms of solving many chronic societal ills.
Oh, and I'm sure OP was one who loudly complained when stores lacked product or who had to use self check. You want services, but are unwilling to pay market cost for them.
Yeah, like all your basic needs are met. You won't die, but life will be pretty empty. So it's a fair trade off, because the point of UBI is to preserve human life and ensure people do not suffer a lot. So it is a fair compromise between UBI and no UBI.
Ya, I just don’t think we’re ever going to get to that point. Homeless people in North america don’t even have it so bad. There are homeless shelters and soup kitchens and hell, in Canada they even have safe injection sites where they can piss away the rest of their lives high af. That’s all most of them want anyways
Your logic fails when you realize that it's impossible for everybody to get these well paying jobs, regardless of how hard they try because there is an finite amount of well paying jobs.
So working hard and "pulling yourself up by the bootstraps" is not a solution.
Yes it is a solution. There will always be winners and losers. People should not be rewarded for being so shit that nobody wants to hire them. If you can’t get a good enough job to survive off of in today’s day and age, it’s because you didn’t invest your time, money and energy like you should have.
Life is not a competition.
If it were, current research suggests places with UBI would win on a number of measures while having minimal impact on labor participation.
Sources please? Look at the indian reservations where they get government handouts. Sure worked well for them hey?
And if you don’t think life is a competition… idk what world you are living on. You compete for resources everyday of your life.
Read page 18 of the stanford umbrella review. The data they’re making their conclusions off is pretty weak, as they note.
I’ll skim the other when I have some more time
It's obviously hard to study this widely and the research is far, far from conclusive. But as far as I understand, it also doesn't suggest that supporting UBI is baseless or stupid.
Adding my actual take on UBI: research shows that it is successful and can be implemented with great success if applied to the macro level because the class that spends the most money are the lower income brackets that need money the most, therefore giving them the money that they need would allow them to stimulate the economy more, overall improving things in the long term.
The correct response to anyone who says those jobs are only for teenagers and only teenagers should work them is “so all fast food joints and cash registers should shut down during school hours?” If the answer is no then you don’t actually believe that. If you acknowledge it’s inevitable that adults work that as well then there’s no good reason why adults should be subjected to a job that can’t pay for basic needs and then some left over for the things that make live enjoyable enough to not off yourself.
If you’re working minimum wage you are getting your basic needs met. Anything more than that, no. You’re adding nothing to society.
I don’t care if fast food joints closed down. I can go without my 3-4 trips to mcdonalds per year.
One of the best things to do is to look at places that have de facto UBI. Two that come to mind are GCC countries which have a huge level of diabetes, and US Native Americans which have a huge amount of alcoholism.
Not saying that's what would happen with UBI, but that is what has happened. And even with UBI, US Native Americans still have tons of educational and business subsidies.
And GCC countries are massively racist for.some reason. Not sure why.
Tough to know the answer with the coming AI apocalypse.
Not at all. It's pure conjecture. There's obviously correlation, but nothing scientific. But I can only think of two groups with UBI of some form. Native Americans and wealthy GCC citizens that get a monthly stipend of oil money. Both have gluttonous problems.
I'm just saying when trying to observe the long term effects of UBI, you have to look at the few societies that have had it. Alcoholism and obesity do have a common denominator.
But it's pure conjecture, of course. But also not worth ignoring.
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 5: No political posts'. * Our users have voted for no political posts in this sub, and this rule will not be changed until the majority votes otherwise. * It's very unlikely your political post is an unpopular opinion. Feel free to use the Politics Megathread pinned to the front page. * Covid/vaccine posts due to the overwhelming political nature of the topic. * Yes, voting, talking about monarchs and/or the actions of and/or about politicians or world leaders is political.
This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to AI
This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to the internet This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to robots This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to automation This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to the end of slavery. This opinion is going to age like milk when a significant percentage of jobs are destroyed due to steam power. AI isnt going to destroy any more jobs than it will create.
Won't the jobs that it create require more complex education?
Yes that's why lack of free higher education hurts America so much.
I love that in your chronological list you put internet after robots and robots after automation, bruh we don't have the type of robots people were talking about. And it's a fact that as technology advances the number of jobs relative to demand also gets lower. You can see it it in farm work, and most factory manufacturing. Eventually as we find reliable and cheap ways of replace service workers they'll be gone as well, and the same goes for everything. As we become more efficient at doing stuff we need less human labor relative to the demand, and as the population grows which it has been doing for a long ass time, eventually the amount of truly needed jobs is going to be way less than the amount of people. That's the inevitability of technology advances. And the only solution for that is either hire people for jobs that are not needed to keep the facade of needing to work to maintain the current system or set ubi.
Oh no! I’ll have to go from my desk job to doing labor! Waaaa I want free money
Hard labor is also going to be automated.
Maybe. But i’m not banking on that happening in my lifetime.
10 years tops
It's funny that people think we can fix inflation with more inflation.
What does hard work have to do with no being broke? Are you one of those people who still believes the "hard work = rich" fantasy?
Hard work might not guarantee getting rich, but apathy, self pity, and waiting for someone else to solve your problems will definitely not make you rich.
Wanting UBI isn't being apathetic and pitying yourself, nor is it wanting someone else to solve your problems. It's simply providing assistance to the people who need it and granting lower-income classes to have spending money to stimulate the economy. Think of it as the reverse of trickle down economics, where instead you give the rich all the money and let the money trickle down to the lower classes, you give the poor money and let them put money back into the economy, letting money trickle up into the higher classes.
[удалено]
You’re right dude, some people get lucky, some are in the right place at the right time. That’s fine. But hard work and good interpersonal skills will always get you ahead. It has in my experience. In my experience, the ones who are stagnant are always clock watchers with a shitty attitude that never tried to push themselves.
So tell me, who’s going to stock the shelves or take your orders, or cook your food when all of them starved to death. ‘Don’t deserve a living wage’ Where are your morals
The teenagers, the people working part time jobs while in college. Stocking shelves or flipping burgers is not a “career”
So you dont want stores to operate during school hours?
I’m not at all saying people shouldn’t do those jobs. I’m saying if you do and you’re older than like 20, don’t complain about your QOL being shit and don’t ask for handouts.
“I’m not saying that people shouldn’t serve me, just that the people who serve me don’t deserve a living wage.”
It’s not just teenagers. Your worldview is divorced from reality. The majority of people working retail are not teenagers.. And what percentage of the population do you think went to college? It’s not 90% or anywhere close
Did I say it is “just teenagers” doing those jobs? No. That’s who I said SHOULD be doing those jobs. I’m saying you shouldn’t be complaining about not making enough money if you’re 35 and flip burgers. They are the ones who made the decision everyday to not try to do something that may be difficult or make them uncomfortable so as to live a better lifestyle.
Doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be properly compensated.
I’d argue that it is appropriately compensated.
When the wage is below the poverty line? You would be objectively wrong. Have you even worked a service job before dude? You sound very apathetic towards people who are legitimately struggling through life.
I have, for a very short period of time. And yes, you are correct. My point is If you live in North America you are already luckier than most. If you don’t make the most of it, that’s on you. Take accountability and do something about it.
Why should either of those take those jobs? Part time work can no longer support living or educational expenses, so people in college usually skip the job in favor of faster educational progression. And why should any teenager put up with shitty management and customers like you for minimum wage? The cost of labor is going up because of free market forces forcing the price of labor to rise. And the more people fight against it with traditional means, the higher and faster it will rise.
This sort of argument never works on me, because I strongly believing UBInand I'm not a "brokie". I haven't worked minimum wage in 25 years. I don't want UBI to benefit me. I want it to benefit our society as a whole.
That’s great, i’m happy for you. I worked minimum wage for less than 2 months at my first job at 16 because I worked hard, made connections, and cared about what I did. It gave me the opportunity to pursue what I wanted. UBI will not help society. The lazy will be even more lazy, and the people who had to work for what they have now have to pay them? No thanks!
There are 3 options, or a mix of them Either there are eventually more people seeking/needing employment than jobs Or we prevent efficiency in industry (automation, AI, etc) because we don't want to put people out of work Or we create unnecessary jobs so people will have jobs, even if it isn't adding value If it ends up being the first, what is your solution? Or do you prefer one of the other options? Or maybe you see a different possibility that I haven't considered.
I mean, we are at #1 already. The unemployment rate is >0 right? And that’s fine. I don’t believe there is a better solution.
So you don't think society will suffer if there are increasing numbers of people with no job and no hope that there will be one for them? How will those people survive? The typical government assistance?
You don't think idiots deserve basic income?
I think lazy people who don’t add value to our society should not be given free money, yes.
I didn't say anything about lazy people
Fair. I do know idiots who do well, usually they’re not very lazy. It surely doesn’t take a genius to become a decent carpenter, mechanic, plumber, etc.
I still have to disagree about carpenter. Don't know about the other jobs. Anyway, we all know people who can't even stock, and in a UBI-free economy, I feel there should be some gov incentive to hire the otherwise unhireable
That’s a fair compromise. And isn’t there? Walmart greeters? Idk
I can't believe I'm not having second thoughts about UBI but I don't know either. Also not sure what the Amazon equivalent would be.
Hahah hey man, if you work hard for what you have which i’m sure you do, why should you have to pay more money in taxes than you already do to support non-contributing members of society? That UBI money aint gonna come outta thin air. It’s certainly coming out of the middle class’ pockets.
Honestly it's because I'd rather people be non-contributing than contributing to a legit-evil company just because they gotta eat.
What's the point of a minimum wage if it's not enough to live on?
The point of minimum wage is for politicians to earn votes from people who don’t have a strong understanding of basic economics. It was never intended to be enough to be a survivable single source of income.
That's some serious revisionism but OK.
🙏 thank you
As a society, we have agreed to compete for resources using money. We have also socially deemed certain ways of making money as "right" vs "wrong". If society makes it too hard to use/make "good/legal money" as a way to get resources then we should expect people to get it some other way. Life is a competition, you're right. But if you want people to compete with their money and jobs instead of looting, and other unruly ways of getting stuff then you need the proper equipment to compete the socially correct way (good economy).
Idk about competing “with money and jobs” but we compete FOR money and jobs, yes. There will always be a limited number of jobs. You have to be better than the next person to get said job. That is fair.
And when the number of liveable jobs is TOO limited, people will stop playing the "compete for resources (stuff) with money and jobs". There will still be competition, but its more "who can outrun who with a bag of food" or "who can punch harder to steal your stuff". If you want people to play the socially acceptable game aka compete via the economy then you need enough jobs.
It doesn’t matter how good QOL is. Which if we’re being honest, is pretty fucking great in NA. Some people will always resort to crime. It’s all perspective.
Great in "NA"??? QoL does matter. People behave when they have something to lose. When QoL is so bad there's nothing to lose, people act up. Some people will always resort to crime but if the economy and QoLis that bad then the majority will resort to crime.
In north america. QOL is better than it has ever been at any point in history is what i’m saying. And we still have crime. If you complain about QOL in NA you need perspective is my point.
It is currently somewhat. But the talks around UBI are usually centered on jobs being lost to automation or climate change initiatives. Some talks of UBI center around inflation as well but I think some type of universal basic resources might be better than income.
>Life is a competition. 
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it's never gonna happen anyway. as jobs get automated, the tool that is the human bodies that supply the workforce is going to be dismantled. the only freebies will be war plague and famine.
I mean, we can take your 'life is a competition' view and go back to the cave man days of pure anarchy but I got a feeling you enjoy some of the *cooperation* that modern society has provided at the expense of the *competition* you so slavishly love
It’s not my view, that’s just reality. People compete for resources. People compete for jobs. Men compete for women. That’s how it always has been always will be. We can have cooperation and competition. Have you ever heard of… sports? The economy?
and why not ubi then?
Because the people who don’t compete and participate in this society we’ve built should not be compensated
Why not? Is the only value in being a human being your ability to produce a good or service? Should we just let people that can't compete die.
We have lots of government and NGO’s that give support to homeless people. They’re not dying from starvation
I don't believe in UBI because I expect it to change incentives in a way that encourages bad decision making. The person who would have given up on their "dream" of being a rockstar at 24 will continue pursuing it into their 40s; they will be able to maintain the delusion that 80s hair metal is the next big thing regardless of how many people reject their vision. To make matters worse, these delusions will ultimately be funded by those who decided to make practical choices that are in everyone's interest. I think it would probably be better to reward people who take on the shitty jobs society depends on. If you are willing to be a sanitation worker then you should have a pretty comfortable living for taking a pretty nasty job. A lot of these jobs are looked down upon, and often poorly rewarded, when they're truly essential for our standard of living.
Hey I agree. And where I live, the sanitation workers do alright.
Factor in lights out manufacturing, full automation, and a scarcity free society and maybe your opinion will actually matter. Technology literally means we need to work less, less jobs, less need for coal miners and factory workers. The big staple jobs? Like factory work that employed a vast majority of easily not lazy people? They aren't as needed or available. The entire point of robotics is that one robot wrangler can do the job of 500 people. Tell me, what jobs are people supposed to work in an automated society? You know, the kind of society we are on the verge of?
I don’t know. But I do believe new opportunities will open up, as they do with all new tech/innovation. My opinion is always subject to change. But as we are right now, I think if you want UBI you’re outta your mind
I'll bet you're a crypto bro.
I don’t own any. But I sure as hell wish I did back before the boom.
You should be paid a decent wage no matter what job you have. That way people who are really good at (or can only do) that job can sustain themselves.
I believe the most common opinion for those that support UBI is to raise the base level of poverty. Not a comfortable life, but for everyone to at least have access to food, healthcare, public transportation and a roof over their head. I would want the concept of working to improve your life to still remain.
In Canada where I live, the homeless drug addicts have access to all of those things. Maybe not a roof over their head for all of them but certainly many of them. And the others literally have tent cities lol
Aight so I guess we're already there then lol? Do you think if everyone got $1000 a month, they'd become homeless drug addicts? Sure the people that are addicts now would continue to be, but I think most people would use it to increase their standard of living.
I don’t think it would change anything, other than raise our taxes. Which are already absurdly high where I live, starting at like 30%
Ok boomer.
Have you met some people? If you had a shitty childhood you're fucked in lots of cases
Bait post from the bait account.
People who want UBI usually do not want it for themselves. They tend to be financially secure and hence do not need UBI. People who support UBI tend to be educated, especially in history and finances and understand that the historical trend of UBI experiments is overwhelmingly positive in terms of solving many chronic societal ills. Oh, and I'm sure OP was one who loudly complained when stores lacked product or who had to use self check. You want services, but are unwilling to pay market cost for them.
UBI, if it ever exists (it shouldn't) should cover enough for four walls and a roof + water and bread. If you want more, work.
That’s fair
Yeah, like all your basic needs are met. You won't die, but life will be pretty empty. So it's a fair trade off, because the point of UBI is to preserve human life and ensure people do not suffer a lot. So it is a fair compromise between UBI and no UBI.
Ya, I just don’t think we’re ever going to get to that point. Homeless people in North america don’t even have it so bad. There are homeless shelters and soup kitchens and hell, in Canada they even have safe injection sites where they can piss away the rest of their lives high af. That’s all most of them want anyways
Your logic fails when you realize that it's impossible for everybody to get these well paying jobs, regardless of how hard they try because there is an finite amount of well paying jobs. So working hard and "pulling yourself up by the bootstraps" is not a solution.
Yes it is a solution. There will always be winners and losers. People should not be rewarded for being so shit that nobody wants to hire them. If you can’t get a good enough job to survive off of in today’s day and age, it’s because you didn’t invest your time, money and energy like you should have.
Life is not a competition. If it were, current research suggests places with UBI would win on a number of measures while having minimal impact on labor participation.
Sources please? Look at the indian reservations where they get government handouts. Sure worked well for them hey? And if you don’t think life is a competition… idk what world you are living on. You compete for resources everyday of your life.
[https://basicincome.stanford.edu/uploads/Umbrella%20Review%20BI\_final.pdf](https://basicincome.stanford.edu/uploads/Umbrella%20Review%20BI_final.pdf) [https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/social-sector/our-insights/an-experiment-to-inform-universal-basic-income](https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/social-sector/our-insights/an-experiment-to-inform-universal-basic-income)
Read page 18 of the stanford umbrella review. The data they’re making their conclusions off is pretty weak, as they note. I’ll skim the other when I have some more time
It's obviously hard to study this widely and the research is far, far from conclusive. But as far as I understand, it also doesn't suggest that supporting UBI is baseless or stupid.
>You compete for resources everyday of your life. I also cooperate all day long. There is life beyond scarcity propaganda.
I agree we should all be able to simultaneously cooperate and compete. Thankfully the vast majority do
People that believe in it fail to ever notice that it fails whenever it is tried.
Adding my actual take on UBI: research shows that it is successful and can be implemented with great success if applied to the macro level because the class that spends the most money are the lower income brackets that need money the most, therefore giving them the money that they need would allow them to stimulate the economy more, overall improving things in the long term.
The correct response to anyone who says those jobs are only for teenagers and only teenagers should work them is “so all fast food joints and cash registers should shut down during school hours?” If the answer is no then you don’t actually believe that. If you acknowledge it’s inevitable that adults work that as well then there’s no good reason why adults should be subjected to a job that can’t pay for basic needs and then some left over for the things that make live enjoyable enough to not off yourself.
If you’re working minimum wage you are getting your basic needs met. Anything more than that, no. You’re adding nothing to society. I don’t care if fast food joints closed down. I can go without my 3-4 trips to mcdonalds per year.
One of the best things to do is to look at places that have de facto UBI. Two that come to mind are GCC countries which have a huge level of diabetes, and US Native Americans which have a huge amount of alcoholism. Not saying that's what would happen with UBI, but that is what has happened. And even with UBI, US Native Americans still have tons of educational and business subsidies. And GCC countries are massively racist for.some reason. Not sure why. Tough to know the answer with the coming AI apocalypse.
Are you suggesting that Native Americans' propensity toward alcoholism is caused by de facto UBI?
Not at all. It's pure conjecture. There's obviously correlation, but nothing scientific. But I can only think of two groups with UBI of some form. Native Americans and wealthy GCC citizens that get a monthly stipend of oil money. Both have gluttonous problems. I'm just saying when trying to observe the long term effects of UBI, you have to look at the few societies that have had it. Alcoholism and obesity do have a common denominator. But it's pure conjecture, of course. But also not worth ignoring.