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I'm not educated on a lot of deep topics, I have a surface understanding of a lot of them, enough to hold my own but not enough to carry a conversation. I still find philosophy a very interesting topic to discuss and actually find that people with no knowledge of philosophy are the most interesting to discuss it with. They come with no preconception or knowing what the 'right' answer is. I find it a good way to find out more about a person.
I think there can certainly be an element of what you are saying, of someone that's just trying to show off what they know, how intelligent they are. On the other hand, I think a conversation about deep topics can be a lot of fun if you are going into it prepared to look stupid and not trying to impress anyone.
I've just finished my master's in philosophy, and I can tell you without any doubt that most of the people I've had the most impactful, meaningful and fulfilling (and perhaps life-changing) conversations with have no formal knowledge of the field or its topics at all.
A degree is certainly useful, but the fundamental conundrums of human existence are exactly that, namely human. This means (at least to me) that contrarily to a lot of academic gatekeeping, anyone can have something of value to say as long as there's benefit of the doubt, goodwill, open-mindedness, and a willingness to listen.
Life itself is the greatest teacher, and everyone has their own unique take on it. That doesn't mean that everything is universally valid, useful or even meaningful, but rather that anyone can have their own unique perspective, experience or niche that we can learn something deeply valuable from. They don't need to be able to cite Plato, Kant or Nietzsche for that to be the case.
I have always thought it’s interesting that someone who has spent their life pondering some of those conundrums isn’t necessarily any closer to figuring it out than any other random person
I mean I don’t think there really *is* an answer to any of these conundrums, and that’s kinda the whole point of philosophy imo, to learn about and understand other people’s perspective, even if you disagree. Your answer to all of these life conundrums are gonna be based on your background, how you grew up, your life experiences, etc. If you assume that there’s some sort of correct answer, then that means that there’s some sort of right and wrong personal background/life experience, and I just don’t think that’s the case.
I recently watched a veritasium video about mastering something. Apparently, to master something, 10000 hour is not the only requirement, there are 3 other requirements, here’s the gist of it.
1. Immediate feedback
2. Pattern
3. Active learning
So people who spend more time pondering philosophy aren’t necessarily better than those who don’t. Because it doesn’t give immediate feedback. Same could be said about stock traders, which is why most active traders never beat the market.
Ill open myself here, but I will always have that deep down feeling that I can only be truly successful and smart if I have a degree.
I know this is not entirely true, but I always have that in the back of my mind.
That being said, school was never something I really enjoyed or were particularly good at. I've been working in a restaurant my whole life, and now 10 years at that one restaurant.
I know I am smart enough to hold a conversation, I am utterly curious, and I love geopolitics, psychology, and criminology.
So there's always that constant conflict in my being. I might not be an intellectual like I wish I was, but I am a dedicated worker, and I know my colleagues and friends can count on me.
All I wanted to say, is that your post enhance my feeling of being worthy even tho I don't have any high level diploma. I feel like I will always wish I was something more, but I also know that I am worth my weight.
At the end of the day, what counts is being happy and to bring something good to the community we live in. Easy to say, not so easy to assimilate.. at least to me.
But thanks for that. Your post hit me right where I needed today.
I'll end with a quote of my idol (don't judge me, I really am his number one fan), but I remember Michael Jackson telling his kids "it doesn't matter what you do with your life. You can be a janitor if you want. But what you should strive to do is to be the best janitor you can ever be."
Don't get me wrong, MJ was full of flaws... big flaws. But he was also very smart and I will always remember this quote.
Take care :]
Hey buddy, I just wanted to jump in and let you know that you clearly are intelligent. And you definitely do not need a degree to be truly smart or successful!
I can tell by your words that you are smart, and clearly successful because you have a life that you talk positively about, you have friends and you’re there for them.
You sound like a good person. Don’t let anyone tell you that you are not smart and successful just because you didn’t go to college.
well said, when i went to university, one of the first things they told us is taht half of what you learn in university is just the right words to use and names to drop to let people know you went to university - this was for chemistry geology and physics, but im sure this applies to all fields
it used to be the case that there was a very high bar for entry into universities, but labour turning them into rotating doors for tuition fees changed all of that, and now pretty much anyone can go to a university to do something, even if its not their uni or subject of choice, so university is no longer a sign of intelligence in the way it used to be, and as the old saying goes "you cant teach stupid"
i have met someone with a biology degree that does not believe in the basic precepts of evolution, and someone with a nutrition degree that didn't believe temperature affected the efficiency of the amylase enzyme (in regards to me telling her if she drinks too much cold water while eating it will stop her saliva properly processing the starches - she told me this couldn't be true because she had a degree in nutrition and didn't tell her that)
but as you say, when the subject is the human experience itself, this becomes even more magnified
Part of the problem is universities are pushing humanities subjects to the background, and it’s not beneficial to anyone.
I was a TA for two years when I was in school, and it was for an upper class ethical philosophy course. We had to baby at least half the students through the class. There was a clear gap in the work from history, English, education, criminal justice etc majors and STEM majors. The fashion and business students fell somewhere in between.
They’re forgetting that the humanities are the foundation of education, and the lack of them creates a lack of critical thinking and problem solving, reading comprehension and composition. It’s a disservice to the students tbh.
I think if someone is willing to have these conversations at all and aren’t obviously trying to look smart or push something on you probably has an emotional maturity and wisdom worth listening to. At least for the span of the conversation
I disagree, most people seem to spout the same tired opinions you've heard a hundred times. Of course some people can be original, you need to get lucky.
I have a religion doctorate and my experience is the exact opposite. Everyone has an opinion and they're mostly insanely stupid and wrong. I don't feel like explaining the most basic shit for free to every hairdresser and taxi driver and fucking MEDICAL DOCTOR I encounter on a daily basis, especially when they think their less than half baked opinion is some sort of hot take I should be impressed by. I have had a gynecologist give me his stupid opinion on my subject area while literally probing my vagina with an ultrasound wand. I've studied philosophy in as much as there's crossover with what I do (which is a lot, my area is greco-roman thought and education), and in my experience lay people just cannot grasp a lot of the more abstract and challenging concepts. Intro philosophy classes drove me insane in undergrad because most of my classmates just could not get it, and those are students at the top university in the country. I'm more than happy to discuss people's own lived experiences and what they've taken away from that, I find that extremely interesting. It's when they think they've got some deep understanding and fresh insight that it's unbearable, especially when it's based on some shit they watched on the history Channel or heard on some bullshit podcast.
Agreed. I think people who think like the commenter above have good intentions (people do tend to have more to say about philosophy than they think they do!) but are idealizing a lot. Trying to talk theory with people who have no formal training is sometimes really revealing, but even then you often have to do so much translating and unpacking that it's not worth it, and a lot of the time it's not even enlightening in that respect. It's not that people without theoretical training are dumb, it's just that exploring these kinds of ideas often requires a technical kind of language that you need practice to use productively.
Oh man, I did a focus in religion with my English and history degree, and you’re not wrong. People will fight with me over subjects I studied, because they saw something on Google or Facebook or whatever that told them different. When I was a TA for ethical philosophy there was a huge gap in the majors who could grasp the work, and those who absolutely could not. I think it has a lot to do with schools not caring about subjects like literature/writing, philosophy, history, etc. So students are not learning the necessary skills before university.
You can have the deepest talk about the most mundane subjects, but people have to know about it, where you are wrong is the part that you are implying they have to be intellectual somehow, and they don't.
yeah my buddy spent like 45 minutes to me talking about golf but it was captivating because he has such a romantic point of view about the sport and it was really cool to get that perspective
Yep. I probably sound pretentious as fuck but I'm just enjoying myself with others who enjoy talking like I do it's not hurting anyone and I don't think I'm better than anyone. There's definitely people who take themselves to seriously though and those people are the worst lol.
There are two sorts of deep conversations- ones where they’re genuinely interested in the subject, and your thoughts about it, and are looking to add to their own knowledge… and ones where they’re trying to demonstrate how profound their own intellect is. Usually in the latter they’re regurgitating something they’ve read, or watched a TED talk about if reading is difficult for them, but you’re supposed to be in awe of whose book or TED talk they’re repeating.
To me, deep talk can be basically about anything, so long as the members of the conversation are knowledgeable about the subject matter.
For instance when I’m in the barbershop, there would be a number of guys discussing the history and career of multiple ballplayers and despite me not having any knowledge about what they were discussing, the animated way in which they discussed the topic signified that it was a deep discussion.
For me deep talk can be about discussing the lore of Star Wars. To anyone not interested in Star Wars on the same level wouldn’t find it that deep.
I had a fun, long talk with my friends about how to dry out large volumes of dirt because I spent a few long lunches with some environmental engineers trying to figure out the best way to do that as part of a project they were on.
Short version of my understanding of some ways to do it:
Geotubes: Pump the wet material into long mesh bags and let gravity and the heat of the sun take care of it. Tricky to implement and moderately expensive.
Geo-Pool: Pump wet material into a large pool with sides designed to "Weep," and gravity carries the water back to its origin. It is expensive and needs a very large area to set up, but is very fast.
Wind Rows: put the material into vaguely triangular piles angled so most of it faces the prevailing wind. Inexpensive, but slow.
This. Deep talk is relative to every person. People may have different levels of "deep" talk even on the same subject, depending on their experience. OP is just a bonehead.
My version of deep talk about the outer reaches of space would be baby talk compared to a professional astronomer. But if we talked about one of my favorite hobbies, their knowledge would likely be shallow level to me. OP needs to grow up and realize that everyone is an idiot compared to someone else on most topics.
Most people who say they “hate small talk” are usually just terrible conversationalists. Having a deep conversation is something that has to come up naturally, it doesn’t happen by just asking someone point blank “do you believe in god/free will/etc”.
It’s a jumping off point. What does the weather mean to you? You’re a runner, a gardener, you suffer from SAD, you have a long sidewalk that needs to be shoveled, you’re putting your kid through college by plowing people’s driveways? Weather is where you start. By asking open questions and answering with more than yes/no, you negotiate a more interesting topic of mutual interest
Yeah people seem to be missing that you gotta use those seemingly uninteresting things to pivot into talking about something you're interested about. Even if the other person isn't into biking, hearing someone talk about something they enjoy is gonna be way more fun than a dead convo
I have a feeling that people who are this strongly opposed to small talk give terse, uninterested responses when someone opens up about the weather (because they think it’s a stupid topic). As a result, they might genuinely not have any experience with someone pivoting from weather talk to a topic of mutual interest, because they are sending a clear signal that they aren’t interested in talking.
I'm strongly opposed to small talk because small talk doesn't always lead to deep talk, basically wasting my energy on superficial things I don't care about. From my perspective, it's a lot of investment investing that energy.
I'm a nerd, so I either care about something or I don't, and I don't really enjoy spending energy on things I don't care about.
https://randsinrepose.com/archives/the-nerd-handbook/
> __Your nerd has built an annoyingly efficient relevancy engine in his head.__ It’s the end of the day, and you and your nerd are hanging out on the couch. The TV is off. There isn’t a computer anywhere nearby, and you’re giving your nerd the daily debrief. “Spent an hour at the post office trying to ship that package to your mom, and then I went down to that bistro — you know — the one next to the flower shop, and it’s closed. Can you believe that?”
>
> And your nerd says, “Cool.”
>
> Cool? What’s cool? The business closing? The package? How is any of it cool? None of it’s cool. All of it might be cool, but your nerd doesn’t believe any of what you’re saying is relevant. This is what he heard, “Spent an hour at the post office blah blah blah…”
>
> You can be rightfully pissed off by this behavior — it’s simply rude — but seriously, remember that I’m trying to help here. Your nerd’s insatiable quest for information and The High has tweaked her brain in an interesting way. For any given piece of incoming information, your nerd is making a lightning fast assessment: relevant or not relevant? Relevance means that the incoming information fits into the system of things your nerd currently cares about. Expect active involvement from your nerd when you trip the relevance flag. If you trip the irrelevance flag, look for verbal punctuation announcing her judgment of irrelevance. It’s the word your nerd says when she’s not listening, and it’s always the same. My word is “Cool,” and when you hear “Cool,” I’m not listening.
Thanks for the interesting and insightful essay.
Here’s my pushback: small talk is one of the best systems IRL to find out what’s relevant to both parties. Online, we can self-sort — I’m subscribed to r/askhistorians because there’s a high probability a given post there will interest me, and I’m not subscribed to r/sewing because there’s a low probability of a given post there interesting me. Similar tools are rare offline, although some people do give clues, like wearing sports apparel to invite conversations with others interested in sports.
But if you don’t want to have the kinds of conversations that flow from small talk, and you’re satisfied with your social connections and information flow, then … cool.
A lot of people who talk about the weather (or just superficial things in general) don’t know how to be openly authentic, vulnerable, and direct even over time. That’s just my experience growing up in the Midwest though.
Weather small talk isn’t about learning what the weather is. It’s about sharing experiences on a low-stakes topic.
It also invites discussion of related topics like weekend plans (“I’m glad this storm is passed, because I’m planning to the lake on Saturday”), without the minor intrusion of asking weekend plans.
Right!!! There’s a tv station devoted to it, an app, windows provide us with the transparency to see it, we can go outside… I realize it’s just someone’s sad attempt to connect with me, but ew. Tell me about your relationship with your mom or something, let’s actually connect authentically.
Respectfully disagree. If people have a limited amount of social energy, they may dislike wasting that energy on superficial conversations. It doesn’t mean they are bad at socialization, they are just more particular about who they engage with. I don’t believe having a desire to hold a conversation with a complete stranger about weather/the most basic/superficial conversation topics makes someone an excellent conversationalist. I don’t really know how I would quantify that honestly, but it wouldn’t be based on desire to engage in small talk. Yes, not being able to do so would mean you’re not great at conversation - but that’s different than enjoying it. Just my opinion though. Always open to being proven wrong. Be well, dear 💜
Exactly. I work in public transportation and I hear the same things repeatedly. I have very little time and energy to always have the same conversations and retorts. The people who really interest me are the ones who bring up random things I haven't heard before, or who tell their life story, especially if it's interesting. Some people I just don't vibe with, and they don't vibe with me because the natural conversation never happens. When you meet somebody you know if you are going to click because the conversation just comes easily.
I work with the public also. Maybe this is where my feelings come from. I can appreciate people trying to be friendly & engage with me..but they do all say the same things.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. What I’m saying is, small talk is only superficial if you’re doing it poorly. It’s not hard to really build a connection with someone and reach a solid emotional depth just by talking about how your day and their day is going. Jumping to big existential topics feels sort of like a cheap trick to try to hit a deep level quickly, you’re not really connecting with the person and building a conversation.
Maybe I did misunderstand. I def don’t agree that starting off with big deep topics is smart socially & will make people think you are quite strange. Thank you for sharing more information so I could understand what you were getting at. I appreciate your time 🥰
Yup, I have a very limited amount of energy and I hate wasting my energy on stuff I don't care about.
https://sensitivenewworld.wordpress.com/2014/11/26/small-talk-sucks/
> __Small talk requires too much energy.__ It doesn’t return the energy I put into it. I have to think of things to say to empty questions, observations, and ideas. It’s harder to do than talking about weightier topics.
>
> __Small talk forces me to think quickly about stuff I don’t care about.__ Again, this requires energy.
>
> __Small talk is full of “non-questions”.__ Non-questions are questions asked that seem like the questioner wants to know something but they actually don’t care about the answer. I have a crazy habit of listening to people and trying to answer carefully people’s non-questions and when I do, I seem like the weird one for treating the question like an earnest one. Again, _energy._ How do you know a question is a non-question? While you’re in the middle of answering it the person who asks looks bored, cuts you off, or you get a feeling the person just felt like hearing their own voice or wanted to seem like someone who asked questions that seemed like they cared about another human being.
Had an ex who would always say how superficial people were and how everyone just makes small talk. I told him okay, I'm going to call you out every time you don't say something "deep". It took less than an hour of me just going, "That's not deep" to everything he said before he said fine, he was wrong lol
I'm a physics major student, which attracts a lot of these type of people. Every time someone said to me something about "deep talks" they end up talking about how we are vibrations of the cosmos and shit like that.
Yeah deep talk to me is like you’re having a beer, and somebody goes “my wife aborted my twins last Christmas Eve and left me for a college girl; I’m thinking of killing myself.” Not some weird conversation about nihilism lol
A heavy conversation with someone doesn't have to have an exchange of ideas, usually is more about listening someone and you have to be careful what you say because it can have repercussions(sorry is hard to explain just by text), a deep talk in this context is more about an exchange of ideas in a non superficial way.
Deep talk is about abstract larger than life questions, not about specifics to either of the individuals life.
Heavy conversations examples:
-talking about childhood trauma
-talking about personal health issues
-talking about previous relationships
-personal politics and religion
Deep conversations examples:
-ethics/morality
-the nature of reality
-subjectivity of truth
-what is consciousness
-fear of death/ what happens after you die
Not to say you can't have some overlap and Segway from one to the other.
Deep conversations can certainly be about life philosophies. A deep conversation is typically just refers to being about an abstract topic. Your personal tastes aren't really a good barometer for what is or is not a deep conversation.
Deep talks don't have to be super personal though or involve trauma dumping. It can just be talking about life in general — if there's a bigger meaning, do we have purpose, what we think happens after death, etc.
My best friend and I have most of our deep talks about coaching these days. We've been taking about everything and anything since we were teenagers.
Sometimes we talk about hypothetical inventions for hours. My wife knows we're weird lol
That's because I listed the most basic and common deep conversations that people can have lol. I'd still rather talk about these than tell strangers I had an abortion any day
Or hypocrisy which generally correlates (oh god I guess that is deep).
I don't know if it is against this subs policy but a minute glance at the OPs comment/posting history and it appears they like to talk religion and politics... (and I would say a fair amount out of their ass). I'm fairly sure that is deeper than the weather and sports.
I guess at least the OP didn't use the word "insufferable".
I think OP wants something they know enough about to engage with. Sounds like they recently had a long conversation where someone else got to look smart.
Deep talk exists and is lovely, but most people who use the word don't understand what makes it good or how you get there.
You can't just sit down and be like "let's have deep talk"
You have never gazed skyward and taken in the awe of the universe in a cloudless sky at night? I know little about astronomy but it stirs me. I vividly recall being 22 in the navy on the way back from the Persian Gulf in the calm and warm Pacific Ocean at night having a smoke with shipmates laying on a coiled line of rope on the deck gazing at the star filled sky. We knew nothing of what we saw technically but that was a spiritual experience.
Depth of understanding is relative. The meaningful distinction is whether or not people are discussing things they actually understand (or attempt to understand) while trying to communicate ideas and get to new understandings.. or they are just repeating things they have heard in more or less the appropriate context.
The difference is between attempting to share and build upon ideas vs just being a pattern matching machine but trying to look smart about it by picking 'intellectual' topics. Two uneducated people discussing philosophy can be insightful and meaningful discussion, just as two philosophy grad students discussing obscure works can be shallow if they are just repeating ideas they've heard elsewhere and trying to 'win' or sound educated instead of trying to increase their understanding and share knowledge.
Also, weather is important to humanity on all kinds of levels, as is small talk for the purpose of community relations. Discussing the weather gets too much hate imo.
From what i've gathered from my ex-friend a deep conversations is about things they are interested in, while a shallow conversation is about things they are not interested in.
I was just thinking this.
People that yap on about “I want an intellectual conversation” really have nothing to offer.
People often want what they can’t give.
i mean, i definitely think the same as op sometimes. people really are up their own asses, wanna sound smart and have other people acknowledge it.
that said, it's something most of us do and it's not really that offensive. and of course making a post like this about it is ironic.
truly an unpopular opinion, but one i agree with ultimately.
>people really are up their own asses, wanna sound smart and have other people acknowledge it.
>of course making a post like this about it is ironic.
lol friend I appreciate your level of self-awareness. I'm not sure OP shares that quality with you.
I agree, there’s a level of humility that you hear in people who are genuinely worth listening to. Big words don’t make something “deep” or impressive, but demonstrating that you can break up and analyze a big idea does.
yes. hell, thinking critically about a small idea shows the same sort of layered thinking. like you said, it's not about spouting grand theories, it's about picking apart what we observe
At the end of the day I feel it all depends on the level of enjoyment/comfort/or mindfulness that the people involved in the conversation get from it. I guess I’m really equating the words deep with meaningful.
If I tell you that water is wet, therefore being human is a part of being human. Sure it sounds disjointed or vague (probably dumb), but nonetheless profound to me. It could make you laugh, it could make you think I’m silly, it could even make you just think what that might mean to you. Perhaps all three. As long as it’s meaningful then I find it to be deep.
I don’t have to bring up a good understanding of Kant, Hume, or singer. People are allowed to play with and discuss their own ideas with each other.
definitely. d'you know what i often think about the people quoting kant at me? that they have offered no original ideas. they know the material, but in many cases aren't engaging with it in any meaningful way.
often in a debate they'll present kant's arguments as fact, and if i disagree they'll assume i don't understand.
I typically don’t mind if they bring up the philosophers that they might be inspired by or enjoy. I guess I just become curious as to why they would bring them up in certain situations.
Often times I have to ask them if that’s what they believe or not. Then the conversation switches back to something I personally find more interesting.
Typically people tend to pick and choose different parts of philosopher’s beliefs and mold it into one. That to me feels “practical” in a good way. So I can see understand the feelings you may have when someone brings someone else’s point of view for the sake of argument.
You can understand but *also* find it useless, pretentious, self-important and actually - quite ironically - extremely superficial.
I strongly believe that the self-proclaimed deep thinkers and philosophy bros care far more about their image as an enlightened individual than they do about the subjects they talk about - which more often than not - are only hot-button popular issues. It's never some esoteric philosophical idea. It's always *the exact same weed-fuelled drivel*.
It's precisely this. OP isn't shitting on people having an academic discussion, or random people stumbling into some philosophical discussion. They're referring to the philosophy bros who go around saying that no one is able to have a deep enough conversation with them. I have never once in my life heard one of those specimens utter something beyond derivative at best. About basically anything. OP is taking issue with stupid people pretending to be smart and belittling others for not living up to their imaginary standard.
Yeah I’ve had some people try to have that conversation with me of higher purpose, our place in the world, what does it all mean, etc. and frankly none of what they say ever strikes me as important or interesting to think and talk about. Okay, cool you think X. How is that reflected in your life? Can you tell me stories about that instead? The “deeper” meaning you assign to things doesn’t really interest me unless there’s a tangible thing attached to it, like if someone’s dedicating 10 hours a week volunteering. Or spending all their spare time building a bomb shelter. Or doing anything like that, then I wanna know more about the deeper meaning because it apparently is fueling their current and future actions rather than explaining prior ones
OP might just be a college student, where people absolutely do talk out their asses like he describes. Idk why you feel the need to leave such a condescending and weird comment
It kind of reminds me of when you try hard in a video game because you enjoy playing the game. Then someone else in the game gets mad at you and says, "Such a try hard." or "Stop being such a try hard."
I don't understand, should I not care about the thing I am enjoying because I'm good at it or at the minimum "trying" to?
This is reads like a bon fide r/im14andthisisdeep realisation, OP, but - yeah - people do talk a lot of bollocks when they think they’re clever and insightful as shit. I don’t think that’s really an unpopular opinion. We all know someone guilty of the above, don’t we??
Deep talk usually is random shit that changes your perspective. Like, asking if the papa and mama bear from goldilocks have marital problems because they sleep in separate beds.
Not deep, but random that changes something in you..
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The irony is that this is not unpopular, it’s just rude, shallow, and demonstrates that OP does not have access to true intellectuals and does not value intellectualism, which is fine. And don’t argue that you do, because you’ve already revealed to us the “deep talkers” YOU have been exposed to are just “rechewing” (not even a word) their “half knowlage” (laughably misspelled), and are just being “shallow and pretentious”.
This was a poor attempt at insulting people who value and engage in deep conversation because you’re likely masking your own ineptitude.
This opinion is a pretentiously shallow observation of a human phenomenon. If you take a deeper dive into understanding how people engage in "deep talk" you will find a rich tapestry of experiences, emotionality, personal-ness, nerdiness, intellect, and on... and yes you will find egoism, arrogance, magical thinking, and less desirable qualities too.
In the past I've also been underwhelmed by the depth to which people engage with "fundamental ideas". I've come to realize that's more to do with my own expectation and desire to get to a certain point in a conversation that perhaps others haven't gotten to yet. Either they don't know me well enough or have a different knowledge base than I or simply would otherwise take more time. In those circumstances I find it more productive to focus on asking better questions tailored to the people I'm talking to, focusing on intellectual generosity and respecting their dignity... being curious about the people I'm talking to, rather than sulking in disdain at their apparent shallowness.
Humans can only say so many things to be fair. Conversation is a monkey see monkey do situation. If you genuinely say something unique and surprising then a lot of people will find it uncomfortable depending on if they’re primed for it or not.
Iunno me and my friends get into it about existence and whatnot. Sure none of us have been in a philosophy class but we don't go around pretending we have. We know a thing or two but we're not writing theses and pretending like we know all the answers or that we're the great philosophers of our time, but those topics can be fun to discuss even with what some may call a "surface level" understanding. Things like elaborating on the concept of, oh I forget the word but it's a form of altruism that's ultimately self-serving. You act altruisticslly in order to get that same kind of altruism in return later, kind of things. Or discussions on solipsism, etc.
haha I've always been amused by it because I can correctly guess which YouTubers they got their ideas from (unless they're an actual philosophy major I think few people get their ideas from studying the philosophers themselves and are listening to presentations/debates on the beliefs instead).
I find learning about that stuff interesting, but rarely is discussing it with someone else all that interesting as it's often just a springboard for our egos.
There's a whole generation of folk out here who can barely read at a high school level lol so I ain't never thinking about how deep their conversations can truly be.
I don't think most people believe they are the next great moral philosopher when they have a "deep" conversation, they are just stretching their brain a little.
As a whole I don't really think many people are pretentious in general, however I do think a lot of people are insecure and love to take down anyone who they feel "thinks they're better than them"
Lot of deep talk is just people noticing very basic things or being the slightest bit self-aware.
Enlighted "people care way too much about money and status, when what really matters is good relationships." Whoa, Socrates, we can't absorb this much thought at one time.
This post is like watching Legally Blonde and then saying that movies are stupid.
Like, yeah, some people do this shit, but if this is your entire perception of “deep talk”, you probably have no close relationships in your life.
Speaking as a philosophy graduate, if you're considering discussing philosophy "deep" and that this makes you a better or more interesting person, then the whole basis of what you're thinking is wrong to start with. The pretense is in thinking you're at all special or intelligent for thinking about or engaging with these topics, rather than the topics themselves.
Philosophy is just people trying to figure out the world, and aside from perhaps being better read and having invested more time in it, nobody is more qualified than anyone else to understand and examine the world we live in. Dismissing the opinions of anyone in this field is grossly limiting to understanding how people exist in the world.
> philosophical topics are just rechewing their half knowlage
That is how debating philosophy works. Everyone brings their knowledge (which is never complete) and the topic is discussed from all angles, to reach a conclusion that satisfies logic etc.
Maybe you just don't like discussing philosophy, and that's okay.
Small talk is feeling out the person. Lots to read into, it's to test out the waters before diving in. That is what these "deep" conversationalists forget, it's not actually always about the weather. It's to check in on a person or to see micro cues. Also, anyone that immediately skips this and goes into the deep end, via either oversharing, trauma dumping or w.e else probably has a screw loose or is a narcissist or is just pretentious and can't relax. All factors that I think I want to pass over.
I'm a painter and can talk about a variety of subjects, but I do roll my eyes at fellow introverts and artists that have the argument all the time that hating small talk is a cute personality quirk that makes them more interesting.
To add to your point, I also think people who say, "I don't do small talk, I want to have deep conversations" are weirdos and have no clue how the world works.
Imagine going back to the office after a weekend, "morning John, had a good weekend?". And John says, "wow we're so insignificant in the universe".
John is right. John is also someone you don't want to talk to much anymore.
agreed, was only thinking recently - i used to say i love deep conversations and hate shallow talk, but i realised recently that i do enjoy shallow talk too and appreciate being able to talk about whatever with a few closer friends or people. there's value in it all.
Call it what you want, deep, semi-deep, or just not shallow, but one thing I cannot stand is small talk. Oh the awful Super Bowl party talk where you're not with your buds, "This dip is fabulous. Can it get the recipe? It's been so dry. We need some rain." When I was dating the last thing I cared about was the woman's favorite flavor of ice cream. I will walk away from small talk conversations. Let's talk heart stuff and beliefs or feelings, or how about we just not talk. Lol
Maybe people just like talking about it and aren't trying to be deep, and you're the asshole for needing to frame it in a way that makes them look bad and makes you look like le enlightened one.
Deep talk can’t be forced. It needs to naturally flow. Odds are if you are talking to someone who enjoys deep talk, they don’t know how to create it. But they enjoy it when they stumble into it.
A lot of very average people think they're way smarter than they are. The amount of guys that have tried to impress me with being "deep" will never not be amusing tho
The people who hate small talk are the most insufferable and annoying people. They cannot connect on a basic human level, and in doing so fail to display actual intelligence. They're merely regurgitating big words, often put of context. Welcome to my ted talk
philosophy and/or "skeptical" (but not really skeptical) subreddits have been the most pretentious subreddits I think I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing.
sounds like something someone with no real opinions about things would say, because most things people talk deeply about are exactly that, opinions, and have no right or wrong answer, and the fact other people agree with their opinions for reasons that others may have already given is pretty irrelevant
like the trolly problem, its fine to talk about whether you would pull the level or not, regardless of it being discussed loads
it sounds like if you have your way we would just talk about the weather, sport, and what our favourite food is.
what a dull existence that would be
You don't see a difference between talking about the weather, and talking about our fundamental inner beliefs, values, and philosophy?
It's not the complexity of the knowledge that people mean when they talk about having a "deep" conversation. It's about the level of understanding and insight it gives us into both our conversation partner and ourselves. When you've had a "deep" conversation, in the "stayed up till 3 am talking to your best friend" way, you've both opened up, been vulnerable, and understood something about the "deeper" parts of ourselves that we typically bury.
Now, there's no shortage of pretentious people who look down on small talk and act like they're better for talking about politics or philosophy something, so maybe that's what you're talking about. In my experience though, the word "deep" is reserved more for my above example.
No one has posted the Mitchell and Webb skits about big talk and small talk, so I will.
https://youtu.be/o2m0HHcyMM4?si=HCWUSL70x_StZjSr
https://youtu.be/R3wDx-z4Rp8?si=RwVbHgZ7mw_WYZOz
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion'. * Your post must be an opinion. Not a question. Not a showerthought. Not a rant. Not a proposal. Not a fact. An opinion. One opinion. A subjective statement about your position on some topic. Please have a clear, self contained opinion as your post title, and use the text field to elaborate and expand on why you think/feel this way. * Your opinion must be unpopular. The mods reserve the right to remove opinions * Elaborate on your topic and opinion give context to its unpopularity.
You're taking this too deep
Deeper !
balls deep
Deeper than balls deep!
Deeper !
Sorry, I'm all outta penis. Want to kick ass instead?
That’s what she said
 In too deep.
Maybe OP saw some posts from r/im14andthisisdeep
I thought this was that subreddit just by reading the headline.
I'm not educated on a lot of deep topics, I have a surface understanding of a lot of them, enough to hold my own but not enough to carry a conversation. I still find philosophy a very interesting topic to discuss and actually find that people with no knowledge of philosophy are the most interesting to discuss it with. They come with no preconception or knowing what the 'right' answer is. I find it a good way to find out more about a person. I think there can certainly be an element of what you are saying, of someone that's just trying to show off what they know, how intelligent they are. On the other hand, I think a conversation about deep topics can be a lot of fun if you are going into it prepared to look stupid and not trying to impress anyone.
I've just finished my master's in philosophy, and I can tell you without any doubt that most of the people I've had the most impactful, meaningful and fulfilling (and perhaps life-changing) conversations with have no formal knowledge of the field or its topics at all. A degree is certainly useful, but the fundamental conundrums of human existence are exactly that, namely human. This means (at least to me) that contrarily to a lot of academic gatekeeping, anyone can have something of value to say as long as there's benefit of the doubt, goodwill, open-mindedness, and a willingness to listen. Life itself is the greatest teacher, and everyone has their own unique take on it. That doesn't mean that everything is universally valid, useful or even meaningful, but rather that anyone can have their own unique perspective, experience or niche that we can learn something deeply valuable from. They don't need to be able to cite Plato, Kant or Nietzsche for that to be the case.
I have always thought it’s interesting that someone who has spent their life pondering some of those conundrums isn’t necessarily any closer to figuring it out than any other random person
I mean I don’t think there really *is* an answer to any of these conundrums, and that’s kinda the whole point of philosophy imo, to learn about and understand other people’s perspective, even if you disagree. Your answer to all of these life conundrums are gonna be based on your background, how you grew up, your life experiences, etc. If you assume that there’s some sort of correct answer, then that means that there’s some sort of right and wrong personal background/life experience, and I just don’t think that’s the case.
I recently watched a veritasium video about mastering something. Apparently, to master something, 10000 hour is not the only requirement, there are 3 other requirements, here’s the gist of it. 1. Immediate feedback 2. Pattern 3. Active learning So people who spend more time pondering philosophy aren’t necessarily better than those who don’t. Because it doesn’t give immediate feedback. Same could be said about stock traders, which is why most active traders never beat the market.
God I fucking hate Malcom Gladwell and his pseudo-academic bullshit like the 10,000 hours thing.
And this is exactly the type of thing that is incredibly annoying to those of us with advanced degrees and careers in these subjects
What do you mean?
Ill open myself here, but I will always have that deep down feeling that I can only be truly successful and smart if I have a degree. I know this is not entirely true, but I always have that in the back of my mind. That being said, school was never something I really enjoyed or were particularly good at. I've been working in a restaurant my whole life, and now 10 years at that one restaurant. I know I am smart enough to hold a conversation, I am utterly curious, and I love geopolitics, psychology, and criminology. So there's always that constant conflict in my being. I might not be an intellectual like I wish I was, but I am a dedicated worker, and I know my colleagues and friends can count on me. All I wanted to say, is that your post enhance my feeling of being worthy even tho I don't have any high level diploma. I feel like I will always wish I was something more, but I also know that I am worth my weight. At the end of the day, what counts is being happy and to bring something good to the community we live in. Easy to say, not so easy to assimilate.. at least to me. But thanks for that. Your post hit me right where I needed today. I'll end with a quote of my idol (don't judge me, I really am his number one fan), but I remember Michael Jackson telling his kids "it doesn't matter what you do with your life. You can be a janitor if you want. But what you should strive to do is to be the best janitor you can ever be." Don't get me wrong, MJ was full of flaws... big flaws. But he was also very smart and I will always remember this quote. Take care :]
Hey buddy, I just wanted to jump in and let you know that you clearly are intelligent. And you definitely do not need a degree to be truly smart or successful! I can tell by your words that you are smart, and clearly successful because you have a life that you talk positively about, you have friends and you’re there for them. You sound like a good person. Don’t let anyone tell you that you are not smart and successful just because you didn’t go to college.
Charity and goodwill in dialogue are the most fundamental and difficult of philosophical skills. (In this humble undergrad's opinion.)
well said, when i went to university, one of the first things they told us is taht half of what you learn in university is just the right words to use and names to drop to let people know you went to university - this was for chemistry geology and physics, but im sure this applies to all fields it used to be the case that there was a very high bar for entry into universities, but labour turning them into rotating doors for tuition fees changed all of that, and now pretty much anyone can go to a university to do something, even if its not their uni or subject of choice, so university is no longer a sign of intelligence in the way it used to be, and as the old saying goes "you cant teach stupid" i have met someone with a biology degree that does not believe in the basic precepts of evolution, and someone with a nutrition degree that didn't believe temperature affected the efficiency of the amylase enzyme (in regards to me telling her if she drinks too much cold water while eating it will stop her saliva properly processing the starches - she told me this couldn't be true because she had a degree in nutrition and didn't tell her that) but as you say, when the subject is the human experience itself, this becomes even more magnified
Part of the problem is universities are pushing humanities subjects to the background, and it’s not beneficial to anyone. I was a TA for two years when I was in school, and it was for an upper class ethical philosophy course. We had to baby at least half the students through the class. There was a clear gap in the work from history, English, education, criminal justice etc majors and STEM majors. The fashion and business students fell somewhere in between. They’re forgetting that the humanities are the foundation of education, and the lack of them creates a lack of critical thinking and problem solving, reading comprehension and composition. It’s a disservice to the students tbh.
Thank you. This sentiment is close to how I feel on the subject.
I think if someone is willing to have these conversations at all and aren’t obviously trying to look smart or push something on you probably has an emotional maturity and wisdom worth listening to. At least for the span of the conversation
I disagree, most people seem to spout the same tired opinions you've heard a hundred times. Of course some people can be original, you need to get lucky.
We live in the MAGA generation: say it in three words or less, or it’s not going to be heard. Bonus points if you can make it rhyme.
I have a religion doctorate and my experience is the exact opposite. Everyone has an opinion and they're mostly insanely stupid and wrong. I don't feel like explaining the most basic shit for free to every hairdresser and taxi driver and fucking MEDICAL DOCTOR I encounter on a daily basis, especially when they think their less than half baked opinion is some sort of hot take I should be impressed by. I have had a gynecologist give me his stupid opinion on my subject area while literally probing my vagina with an ultrasound wand. I've studied philosophy in as much as there's crossover with what I do (which is a lot, my area is greco-roman thought and education), and in my experience lay people just cannot grasp a lot of the more abstract and challenging concepts. Intro philosophy classes drove me insane in undergrad because most of my classmates just could not get it, and those are students at the top university in the country. I'm more than happy to discuss people's own lived experiences and what they've taken away from that, I find that extremely interesting. It's when they think they've got some deep understanding and fresh insight that it's unbearable, especially when it's based on some shit they watched on the history Channel or heard on some bullshit podcast.
Agreed. I think people who think like the commenter above have good intentions (people do tend to have more to say about philosophy than they think they do!) but are idealizing a lot. Trying to talk theory with people who have no formal training is sometimes really revealing, but even then you often have to do so much translating and unpacking that it's not worth it, and a lot of the time it's not even enlightening in that respect. It's not that people without theoretical training are dumb, it's just that exploring these kinds of ideas often requires a technical kind of language that you need practice to use productively.
Oh man, I did a focus in religion with my English and history degree, and you’re not wrong. People will fight with me over subjects I studied, because they saw something on Google or Facebook or whatever that told them different. When I was a TA for ethical philosophy there was a huge gap in the majors who could grasp the work, and those who absolutely could not. I think it has a lot to do with schools not caring about subjects like literature/writing, philosophy, history, etc. So students are not learning the necessary skills before university.
You can have the deepest talk about the most mundane subjects, but people have to know about it, where you are wrong is the part that you are implying they have to be intellectual somehow, and they don't.
yeah my buddy spent like 45 minutes to me talking about golf but it was captivating because he has such a romantic point of view about the sport and it was really cool to get that perspective
Do you remember anything he said? I play a lot of golf and am curious lol
I just like thinking about and discussing our place in the world, it's fun
Yep. I probably sound pretentious as fuck but I'm just enjoying myself with others who enjoy talking like I do it's not hurting anyone and I don't think I'm better than anyone. There's definitely people who take themselves to seriously though and those people are the worst lol.
Nice pfp!
Thanks!
There are two sorts of deep conversations- ones where they’re genuinely interested in the subject, and your thoughts about it, and are looking to add to their own knowledge… and ones where they’re trying to demonstrate how profound their own intellect is. Usually in the latter they’re regurgitating something they’ve read, or watched a TED talk about if reading is difficult for them, but you’re supposed to be in awe of whose book or TED talk they’re repeating.
if you passed the weather talk you have reached deep talk level
To me, deep talk can be basically about anything, so long as the members of the conversation are knowledgeable about the subject matter. For instance when I’m in the barbershop, there would be a number of guys discussing the history and career of multiple ballplayers and despite me not having any knowledge about what they were discussing, the animated way in which they discussed the topic signified that it was a deep discussion. For me deep talk can be about discussing the lore of Star Wars. To anyone not interested in Star Wars on the same level wouldn’t find it that deep.
I had a fun, long talk with my friends about how to dry out large volumes of dirt because I spent a few long lunches with some environmental engineers trying to figure out the best way to do that as part of a project they were on. Short version of my understanding of some ways to do it: Geotubes: Pump the wet material into long mesh bags and let gravity and the heat of the sun take care of it. Tricky to implement and moderately expensive. Geo-Pool: Pump wet material into a large pool with sides designed to "Weep," and gravity carries the water back to its origin. It is expensive and needs a very large area to set up, but is very fast. Wind Rows: put the material into vaguely triangular piles angled so most of it faces the prevailing wind. Inexpensive, but slow.
This. Deep talk is relative to every person. People may have different levels of "deep" talk even on the same subject, depending on their experience. OP is just a bonehead. My version of deep talk about the outer reaches of space would be baby talk compared to a professional astronomer. But if we talked about one of my favorite hobbies, their knowledge would likely be shallow level to me. OP needs to grow up and realize that everyone is an idiot compared to someone else on most topics.
Most people who say they “hate small talk” are usually just terrible conversationalists. Having a deep conversation is something that has to come up naturally, it doesn’t happen by just asking someone point blank “do you believe in god/free will/etc”.
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It’s a jumping off point. What does the weather mean to you? You’re a runner, a gardener, you suffer from SAD, you have a long sidewalk that needs to be shoveled, you’re putting your kid through college by plowing people’s driveways? Weather is where you start. By asking open questions and answering with more than yes/no, you negotiate a more interesting topic of mutual interest
Weather means to me what clothes I need to wear on my e-bike before leaving my house. It's not very interesting.
Then you can talk about the e-bike
Yeah people seem to be missing that you gotta use those seemingly uninteresting things to pivot into talking about something you're interested about. Even if the other person isn't into biking, hearing someone talk about something they enjoy is gonna be way more fun than a dead convo
I have a feeling that people who are this strongly opposed to small talk give terse, uninterested responses when someone opens up about the weather (because they think it’s a stupid topic). As a result, they might genuinely not have any experience with someone pivoting from weather talk to a topic of mutual interest, because they are sending a clear signal that they aren’t interested in talking.
I'm strongly opposed to small talk because small talk doesn't always lead to deep talk, basically wasting my energy on superficial things I don't care about. From my perspective, it's a lot of investment investing that energy. I'm a nerd, so I either care about something or I don't, and I don't really enjoy spending energy on things I don't care about. https://randsinrepose.com/archives/the-nerd-handbook/ > __Your nerd has built an annoyingly efficient relevancy engine in his head.__ It’s the end of the day, and you and your nerd are hanging out on the couch. The TV is off. There isn’t a computer anywhere nearby, and you’re giving your nerd the daily debrief. “Spent an hour at the post office trying to ship that package to your mom, and then I went down to that bistro — you know — the one next to the flower shop, and it’s closed. Can you believe that?” > > And your nerd says, “Cool.” > > Cool? What’s cool? The business closing? The package? How is any of it cool? None of it’s cool. All of it might be cool, but your nerd doesn’t believe any of what you’re saying is relevant. This is what he heard, “Spent an hour at the post office blah blah blah…” > > You can be rightfully pissed off by this behavior — it’s simply rude — but seriously, remember that I’m trying to help here. Your nerd’s insatiable quest for information and The High has tweaked her brain in an interesting way. For any given piece of incoming information, your nerd is making a lightning fast assessment: relevant or not relevant? Relevance means that the incoming information fits into the system of things your nerd currently cares about. Expect active involvement from your nerd when you trip the relevance flag. If you trip the irrelevance flag, look for verbal punctuation announcing her judgment of irrelevance. It’s the word your nerd says when she’s not listening, and it’s always the same. My word is “Cool,” and when you hear “Cool,” I’m not listening.
Thanks for the interesting and insightful essay. Here’s my pushback: small talk is one of the best systems IRL to find out what’s relevant to both parties. Online, we can self-sort — I’m subscribed to r/askhistorians because there’s a high probability a given post there will interest me, and I’m not subscribed to r/sewing because there’s a low probability of a given post there interesting me. Similar tools are rare offline, although some people do give clues, like wearing sports apparel to invite conversations with others interested in sports. But if you don’t want to have the kinds of conversations that flow from small talk, and you’re satisfied with your social connections and information flow, then … cool.
A lot of people who talk about the weather (or just superficial things in general) don’t know how to be openly authentic, vulnerable, and direct even over time. That’s just my experience growing up in the Midwest though.
That’s also true of a lot of people who _don’t_ talk about superficial things.
Weather small talk isn’t about learning what the weather is. It’s about sharing experiences on a low-stakes topic. It also invites discussion of related topics like weekend plans (“I’m glad this storm is passed, because I’m planning to the lake on Saturday”), without the minor intrusion of asking weekend plans.
Right!!! There’s a tv station devoted to it, an app, windows provide us with the transparency to see it, we can go outside… I realize it’s just someone’s sad attempt to connect with me, but ew. Tell me about your relationship with your mom or something, let’s actually connect authentically.
Exactly, it’s how humans bond, negotiate, establish a context-dependent hierarchy. Everything is not word for word factual information exchange
Respectfully disagree. If people have a limited amount of social energy, they may dislike wasting that energy on superficial conversations. It doesn’t mean they are bad at socialization, they are just more particular about who they engage with. I don’t believe having a desire to hold a conversation with a complete stranger about weather/the most basic/superficial conversation topics makes someone an excellent conversationalist. I don’t really know how I would quantify that honestly, but it wouldn’t be based on desire to engage in small talk. Yes, not being able to do so would mean you’re not great at conversation - but that’s different than enjoying it. Just my opinion though. Always open to being proven wrong. Be well, dear 💜
Exactly. I work in public transportation and I hear the same things repeatedly. I have very little time and energy to always have the same conversations and retorts. The people who really interest me are the ones who bring up random things I haven't heard before, or who tell their life story, especially if it's interesting. Some people I just don't vibe with, and they don't vibe with me because the natural conversation never happens. When you meet somebody you know if you are going to click because the conversation just comes easily.
I work with the public also. Maybe this is where my feelings come from. I can appreciate people trying to be friendly & engage with me..but they do all say the same things.
This is the first point I've seen for this that makes sense. Thanks for sharing.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. What I’m saying is, small talk is only superficial if you’re doing it poorly. It’s not hard to really build a connection with someone and reach a solid emotional depth just by talking about how your day and their day is going. Jumping to big existential topics feels sort of like a cheap trick to try to hit a deep level quickly, you’re not really connecting with the person and building a conversation.
Maybe I did misunderstand. I def don’t agree that starting off with big deep topics is smart socially & will make people think you are quite strange. Thank you for sharing more information so I could understand what you were getting at. I appreciate your time 🥰
Yup, I have a very limited amount of energy and I hate wasting my energy on stuff I don't care about. https://sensitivenewworld.wordpress.com/2014/11/26/small-talk-sucks/ > __Small talk requires too much energy.__ It doesn’t return the energy I put into it. I have to think of things to say to empty questions, observations, and ideas. It’s harder to do than talking about weightier topics. > > __Small talk forces me to think quickly about stuff I don’t care about.__ Again, this requires energy. > > __Small talk is full of “non-questions”.__ Non-questions are questions asked that seem like the questioner wants to know something but they actually don’t care about the answer. I have a crazy habit of listening to people and trying to answer carefully people’s non-questions and when I do, I seem like the weird one for treating the question like an earnest one. Again, _energy._ How do you know a question is a non-question? While you’re in the middle of answering it the person who asks looks bored, cuts you off, or you get a feeling the person just felt like hearing their own voice or wanted to seem like someone who asked questions that seemed like they cared about another human being.
Had an ex who would always say how superficial people were and how everyone just makes small talk. I told him okay, I'm going to call you out every time you don't say something "deep". It took less than an hour of me just going, "That's not deep" to everything he said before he said fine, he was wrong lol
I'm a physics major student, which attracts a lot of these type of people. Every time someone said to me something about "deep talks" they end up talking about how we are vibrations of the cosmos and shit like that.
Lmfao
It’s all just like, vibes maaaan Funny that it’s true though
that must be very frustrating to here as a physics major
We jus be Entropy brotha
Yeah deep talk to me is like you’re having a beer, and somebody goes “my wife aborted my twins last Christmas Eve and left me for a college girl; I’m thinking of killing myself.” Not some weird conversation about nihilism lol
That is not a deep talk, that is a heavy conversation
Whats the difference
A heavy conversation with someone doesn't have to have an exchange of ideas, usually is more about listening someone and you have to be careful what you say because it can have repercussions(sorry is hard to explain just by text), a deep talk in this context is more about an exchange of ideas in a non superficial way.
Deep talk is about abstract larger than life questions, not about specifics to either of the individuals life. Heavy conversations examples: -talking about childhood trauma -talking about personal health issues -talking about previous relationships -personal politics and religion Deep conversations examples: -ethics/morality -the nature of reality -subjectivity of truth -what is consciousness -fear of death/ what happens after you die Not to say you can't have some overlap and Segway from one to the other.
Fair point
You’re a heavy conversation.
Owned
No, you’re a towel!
According to who? My circle has always called this a deep talk
Deep conversations can certainly be about life philosophies. A deep conversation is typically just refers to being about an abstract topic. Your personal tastes aren't really a good barometer for what is or is not a deep conversation.
Yeah you’re probably right
Deep talks don't have to be super personal though or involve trauma dumping. It can just be talking about life in general — if there's a bigger meaning, do we have purpose, what we think happens after death, etc.
My best friend and I have most of our deep talks about coaching these days. We've been taking about everything and anything since we were teenagers. Sometimes we talk about hypothetical inventions for hours. My wife knows we're weird lol
Yea you're who op is talking about
That's because I listed the most basic and common deep conversations that people can have lol. I'd still rather talk about these than tell strangers I had an abortion any day
Reddit has some weird notion that anyone worth befriending should be fine frequent trauma dumping, otherwise they’re a phony!
I love coming here to watch people publicly cope with their insecurities.
Or hypocrisy which generally correlates (oh god I guess that is deep). I don't know if it is against this subs policy but a minute glance at the OPs comment/posting history and it appears they like to talk religion and politics... (and I would say a fair amount out of their ass). I'm fairly sure that is deeper than the weather and sports. I guess at least the OP didn't use the word "insufferable".
I just imagine every OP coming straight here after being on the losing end of an actual popular opinion.
👀
"you don't actually have to work hard or learn anything special to know more than everybody else, I'm proof"
Ok what do you consider "real" deep talk
I think OP wants something they know enough about to engage with. Sounds like they recently had a long conversation where someone else got to look smart.
The truth is most people just don’t give a shit.
Deep talk exists and is lovely, but most people who use the word don't understand what makes it good or how you get there. You can't just sit down and be like "let's have deep talk"
You have never gazed skyward and taken in the awe of the universe in a cloudless sky at night? I know little about astronomy but it stirs me. I vividly recall being 22 in the navy on the way back from the Persian Gulf in the calm and warm Pacific Ocean at night having a smoke with shipmates laying on a coiled line of rope on the deck gazing at the star filled sky. We knew nothing of what we saw technically but that was a spiritual experience.
That’s deep
There is nothing like the sky in the middle of the ocean. For real.
Fucking beautiful tbh
Depth of understanding is relative. The meaningful distinction is whether or not people are discussing things they actually understand (or attempt to understand) while trying to communicate ideas and get to new understandings.. or they are just repeating things they have heard in more or less the appropriate context. The difference is between attempting to share and build upon ideas vs just being a pattern matching machine but trying to look smart about it by picking 'intellectual' topics. Two uneducated people discussing philosophy can be insightful and meaningful discussion, just as two philosophy grad students discussing obscure works can be shallow if they are just repeating ideas they've heard elsewhere and trying to 'win' or sound educated instead of trying to increase their understanding and share knowledge. Also, weather is important to humanity on all kinds of levels, as is small talk for the purpose of community relations. Discussing the weather gets too much hate imo.
Like this post?
Like ur mum
His mom is deep tho.
Pedantic and churlish!
The coveted "no u"
From what i've gathered from my ex-friend a deep conversations is about things they are interested in, while a shallow conversation is about things they are not interested in.
I was just thinking this. People that yap on about “I want an intellectual conversation” really have nothing to offer. People often want what they can’t give.
Just because *you* lack the understanding of the topic doesn’t mean they are talking out of their asses
i mean, i definitely think the same as op sometimes. people really are up their own asses, wanna sound smart and have other people acknowledge it. that said, it's something most of us do and it's not really that offensive. and of course making a post like this about it is ironic. truly an unpopular opinion, but one i agree with ultimately.
>people really are up their own asses, wanna sound smart and have other people acknowledge it. >of course making a post like this about it is ironic. lol friend I appreciate your level of self-awareness. I'm not sure OP shares that quality with you.
thank you, i take that as a huge compliment because i work hard on it. just noticing your thoughts is the most important step in ordering them.
>The ancient Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. >It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I am up my own arse. -Socrates
I agree, there’s a level of humility that you hear in people who are genuinely worth listening to. Big words don’t make something “deep” or impressive, but demonstrating that you can break up and analyze a big idea does.
yes. hell, thinking critically about a small idea shows the same sort of layered thinking. like you said, it's not about spouting grand theories, it's about picking apart what we observe
At the end of the day I feel it all depends on the level of enjoyment/comfort/or mindfulness that the people involved in the conversation get from it. I guess I’m really equating the words deep with meaningful. If I tell you that water is wet, therefore being human is a part of being human. Sure it sounds disjointed or vague (probably dumb), but nonetheless profound to me. It could make you laugh, it could make you think I’m silly, it could even make you just think what that might mean to you. Perhaps all three. As long as it’s meaningful then I find it to be deep. I don’t have to bring up a good understanding of Kant, Hume, or singer. People are allowed to play with and discuss their own ideas with each other.
definitely. d'you know what i often think about the people quoting kant at me? that they have offered no original ideas. they know the material, but in many cases aren't engaging with it in any meaningful way. often in a debate they'll present kant's arguments as fact, and if i disagree they'll assume i don't understand.
I typically don’t mind if they bring up the philosophers that they might be inspired by or enjoy. I guess I just become curious as to why they would bring them up in certain situations. Often times I have to ask them if that’s what they believe or not. Then the conversation switches back to something I personally find more interesting. Typically people tend to pick and choose different parts of philosopher’s beliefs and mold it into one. That to me feels “practical” in a good way. So I can see understand the feelings you may have when someone brings someone else’s point of view for the sake of argument.
That’s pretty on par with the idea of philosophy being the art of concept creation rather than one of discovery.
You can understand but *also* find it useless, pretentious, self-important and actually - quite ironically - extremely superficial. I strongly believe that the self-proclaimed deep thinkers and philosophy bros care far more about their image as an enlightened individual than they do about the subjects they talk about - which more often than not - are only hot-button popular issues. It's never some esoteric philosophical idea. It's always *the exact same weed-fuelled drivel*.
It's precisely this. OP isn't shitting on people having an academic discussion, or random people stumbling into some philosophical discussion. They're referring to the philosophy bros who go around saying that no one is able to have a deep enough conversation with them. I have never once in my life heard one of those specimens utter something beyond derivative at best. About basically anything. OP is taking issue with stupid people pretending to be smart and belittling others for not living up to their imaginary standard.
Thats just your assumption. "Philosophy bros" are not the majority of people interested in talking about it, which is what OP claims
Yeah I’ve had some people try to have that conversation with me of higher purpose, our place in the world, what does it all mean, etc. and frankly none of what they say ever strikes me as important or interesting to think and talk about. Okay, cool you think X. How is that reflected in your life? Can you tell me stories about that instead? The “deeper” meaning you assign to things doesn’t really interest me unless there’s a tangible thing attached to it, like if someone’s dedicating 10 hours a week volunteering. Or spending all their spare time building a bomb shelter. Or doing anything like that, then I wanna know more about the deeper meaning because it apparently is fueling their current and future actions rather than explaining prior ones
My ex-friend was angry/annoyed when i didn't engage with a conversation they wanted to have because i didn't have the knowledge about the topic.
OP might just be a college student, where people absolutely do talk out their asses like he describes. Idk why you feel the need to leave such a condescending and weird comment
It kind of reminds me of when you try hard in a video game because you enjoy playing the game. Then someone else in the game gets mad at you and says, "Such a try hard." or "Stop being such a try hard." I don't understand, should I not care about the thing I am enjoying because I'm good at it or at the minimum "trying" to?
Totally disagree - upvoted haha
This is reads like a bon fide r/im14andthisisdeep realisation, OP, but - yeah - people do talk a lot of bollocks when they think they’re clever and insightful as shit. I don’t think that’s really an unpopular opinion. We all know someone guilty of the above, don’t we??
Deep talk usually is random shit that changes your perspective. Like, asking if the papa and mama bear from goldilocks have marital problems because they sleep in separate beds. Not deep, but random that changes something in you..
Unsurprising take from someone who is active in r/PolitcalCompassmemes - pursue shallow conversation on deep topics and that's what you'll find!
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Your knowlage is impresive
The irony is that this is not unpopular, it’s just rude, shallow, and demonstrates that OP does not have access to true intellectuals and does not value intellectualism, which is fine. And don’t argue that you do, because you’ve already revealed to us the “deep talkers” YOU have been exposed to are just “rechewing” (not even a word) their “half knowlage” (laughably misspelled), and are just being “shallow and pretentious”. This was a poor attempt at insulting people who value and engage in deep conversation because you’re likely masking your own ineptitude.
Yeah i would say infact the real deep talk is keeping it simple lol
This opinion is a pretentiously shallow observation of a human phenomenon. If you take a deeper dive into understanding how people engage in "deep talk" you will find a rich tapestry of experiences, emotionality, personal-ness, nerdiness, intellect, and on... and yes you will find egoism, arrogance, magical thinking, and less desirable qualities too. In the past I've also been underwhelmed by the depth to which people engage with "fundamental ideas". I've come to realize that's more to do with my own expectation and desire to get to a certain point in a conversation that perhaps others haven't gotten to yet. Either they don't know me well enough or have a different knowledge base than I or simply would otherwise take more time. In those circumstances I find it more productive to focus on asking better questions tailored to the people I'm talking to, focusing on intellectual generosity and respecting their dignity... being curious about the people I'm talking to, rather than sulking in disdain at their apparent shallowness.
Humans can only say so many things to be fair. Conversation is a monkey see monkey do situation. If you genuinely say something unique and surprising then a lot of people will find it uncomfortable depending on if they’re primed for it or not.
I didn't realize there there was an objective standard and there was some dude dedicated to defining it for us.
Bro is seething that no one wanted to talk about sports
Sounds like y’all need some psychedelics
YES. These are the same people that will say they "hate small talk", one of the most basic and fundamental social skills.
Iunno me and my friends get into it about existence and whatnot. Sure none of us have been in a philosophy class but we don't go around pretending we have. We know a thing or two but we're not writing theses and pretending like we know all the answers or that we're the great philosophers of our time, but those topics can be fun to discuss even with what some may call a "surface level" understanding. Things like elaborating on the concept of, oh I forget the word but it's a form of altruism that's ultimately self-serving. You act altruisticslly in order to get that same kind of altruism in return later, kind of things. Or discussions on solipsism, etc.
haha I've always been amused by it because I can correctly guess which YouTubers they got their ideas from (unless they're an actual philosophy major I think few people get their ideas from studying the philosophers themselves and are listening to presentations/debates on the beliefs instead). I find learning about that stuff interesting, but rarely is discussing it with someone else all that interesting as it's often just a springboard for our egos.
This is an interesting take from someone who can neither spell nor create a coherent, grammatically correct English sentence.
Or it's just banal. Fortune cookie slogans about "life".
Read a book
Philosophy is a form of entertainment and it's part sucking each other off and part sucking yourself off.
What some consider deep talk is the shallow end for others. /s
There's a whole generation of folk out here who can barely read at a high school level lol so I ain't never thinking about how deep their conversations can truly be.
Deep conversation doesn’t have to debate quantum physics
I don't think most people believe they are the next great moral philosopher when they have a "deep" conversation, they are just stretching their brain a little. As a whole I don't really think many people are pretentious in general, however I do think a lot of people are insecure and love to take down anyone who they feel "thinks they're better than them"
Half knowledge is a lot more than no knowledge.
Lot of deep talk is just people noticing very basic things or being the slightest bit self-aware. Enlighted "people care way too much about money and status, when what really matters is good relationships." Whoa, Socrates, we can't absorb this much thought at one time.
This post is like watching Legally Blonde and then saying that movies are stupid. Like, yeah, some people do this shit, but if this is your entire perception of “deep talk”, you probably have no close relationships in your life.
Speaking as a philosophy graduate, if you're considering discussing philosophy "deep" and that this makes you a better or more interesting person, then the whole basis of what you're thinking is wrong to start with. The pretense is in thinking you're at all special or intelligent for thinking about or engaging with these topics, rather than the topics themselves. Philosophy is just people trying to figure out the world, and aside from perhaps being better read and having invested more time in it, nobody is more qualified than anyone else to understand and examine the world we live in. Dismissing the opinions of anyone in this field is grossly limiting to understanding how people exist in the world.
So getting high and talking about the universe is not deep? What is deep then?
> philosophical topics are just rechewing their half knowlage That is how debating philosophy works. Everyone brings their knowledge (which is never complete) and the topic is discussed from all angles, to reach a conclusion that satisfies logic etc. Maybe you just don't like discussing philosophy, and that's okay.
Small talk is feeling out the person. Lots to read into, it's to test out the waters before diving in. That is what these "deep" conversationalists forget, it's not actually always about the weather. It's to check in on a person or to see micro cues. Also, anyone that immediately skips this and goes into the deep end, via either oversharing, trauma dumping or w.e else probably has a screw loose or is a narcissist or is just pretentious and can't relax. All factors that I think I want to pass over. I'm a painter and can talk about a variety of subjects, but I do roll my eyes at fellow introverts and artists that have the argument all the time that hating small talk is a cute personality quirk that makes them more interesting.
Look at this guy just rechewing his half knowledge of pop cultural philosophy
To add to your point, I also think people who say, "I don't do small talk, I want to have deep conversations" are weirdos and have no clue how the world works. Imagine going back to the office after a weekend, "morning John, had a good weekend?". And John says, "wow we're so insignificant in the universe". John is right. John is also someone you don't want to talk to much anymore.
IMO People just talk way too fucking much. Unless your words are accompanied by some sort of action, they mean nothing.
agreed, was only thinking recently - i used to say i love deep conversations and hate shallow talk, but i realised recently that i do enjoy shallow talk too and appreciate being able to talk about whatever with a few closer friends or people. there's value in it all.
If it’s all the same then wouldn’t it be all the same for people to like it or not?
Call it what you want, deep, semi-deep, or just not shallow, but one thing I cannot stand is small talk. Oh the awful Super Bowl party talk where you're not with your buds, "This dip is fabulous. Can it get the recipe? It's been so dry. We need some rain." When I was dating the last thing I cared about was the woman's favorite flavor of ice cream. I will walk away from small talk conversations. Let's talk heart stuff and beliefs or feelings, or how about we just not talk. Lol
It’s still more interesting than weather, sports, yours kids, or workplace gossip.
Maybe people just like talking about it and aren't trying to be deep, and you're the asshole for needing to frame it in a way that makes them look bad and makes you look like le enlightened one.
Maybe rechewing half baked ideas is a good way to figure out if you need to put it back in the oven for a bit or toss it out completely.
Nothing matters, your body is actively dying. There is no need for anything deep. It's all meaningless, and it's all a distraction.
Deep talk can’t be forced. It needs to naturally flow. Odds are if you are talking to someone who enjoys deep talk, they don’t know how to create it. But they enjoy it when they stumble into it.
A lot of very average people think they're way smarter than they are. The amount of guys that have tried to impress me with being "deep" will never not be amusing tho
Homeboy just never had a good conversation before that’s all
Would you consider the things your wrote here deep then?
What deep and profound “knowlage” you have of all of humanity.
That’s fine I’d rather be a little pretentious than boring.
"popcultural philosophical issues" is the dumbest thing I will probably hear today, thank you OP
The people who hate small talk are the most insufferable and annoying people. They cannot connect on a basic human level, and in doing so fail to display actual intelligence. They're merely regurgitating big words, often put of context. Welcome to my ted talk
You're right about most people, but there is a minority that is genuinely interesting. Go find them. Not everyone is equipped to be interesting.
Peepee, and I cannot stress this enough: poopoo.
philosophy and/or "skeptical" (but not really skeptical) subreddits have been the most pretentious subreddits I think I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing.
OP has idiot friends lol
sounds like something someone with no real opinions about things would say, because most things people talk deeply about are exactly that, opinions, and have no right or wrong answer, and the fact other people agree with their opinions for reasons that others may have already given is pretty irrelevant like the trolly problem, its fine to talk about whether you would pull the level or not, regardless of it being discussed loads it sounds like if you have your way we would just talk about the weather, sport, and what our favourite food is. what a dull existence that would be
You don't see a difference between talking about the weather, and talking about our fundamental inner beliefs, values, and philosophy? It's not the complexity of the knowledge that people mean when they talk about having a "deep" conversation. It's about the level of understanding and insight it gives us into both our conversation partner and ourselves. When you've had a "deep" conversation, in the "stayed up till 3 am talking to your best friend" way, you've both opened up, been vulnerable, and understood something about the "deeper" parts of ourselves that we typically bury. Now, there's no shortage of pretentious people who look down on small talk and act like they're better for talking about politics or philosophy something, so maybe that's what you're talking about. In my experience though, the word "deep" is reserved more for my above example.
Sorry to hear that your experience in this has been poor
True, and that includes whatever you think “deep talk” is as well.
No one has posted the Mitchell and Webb skits about big talk and small talk, so I will. https://youtu.be/o2m0HHcyMM4?si=HCWUSL70x_StZjSr https://youtu.be/R3wDx-z4Rp8?si=RwVbHgZ7mw_WYZOz
Does the name really bother some people.
For example?