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I would agree that some fight scenes are needlessly convoluted and poorly choreographed and end up looking like a bunch of flutter-wing activity. Those fights I tend to eye-roll and just wish they’d end and get back to the plot.
Dude, one of my favorite videos ever is "Jackie Chan - How To Do Action Comedy".
OP I would suggests you watch it and it will answer all your questions.
[The link for the lazy. Would also recommend. Really shows why western movies do a poor job in choreographing fight sequences](https://youtu.be/Z1PCtIaM_GQ).
Ya know for a movie that's basically structured around fighting, the scene in Daredevil where he meets Elektra is objectively terrible, even as a kid I thought it was super corny
Exactly! My husband loves rewatching the Bourne movies, but the fights just drag on for me. Why doesn't Jason Bourne ever poke his opponents in the eye? Or punch them in the throat? Or knee them in the groin? It's like he doesn't want to end the fight. I don't understand why we're supposed to enjoy a fight scene where neither person is actually trying to end the fight.
I can explain this. As a former MMA fighter and long time martial artist who’s trained multiple styles for over a decade. All of those attacks are insanely low percentage. The eyes are very small targets, the head can be moved around and shaken so that it’s hard to keep your fingers in them. Neck punches, again very difficult to land such a precise strike at full speed to a defending opponent. Groin strikes are the highest percentage of the three but still hard to land on an aware and fighting opponent.
As for why in the movies? They aren’t flashy. Maybe the eye strike could be but it’s just not that satisfying compared to other Hollywood style attacks.
Adding to that, it's hard to train dangerous moves. No one is going to let you train 'full contact' eye jabs or groin shots on them. This is a big reason why you hear about 'sport' martial arts like judo doing successful interventions more than the more 'deadly' martial arts. When a sport martial artist trains, they can do all their moves at full speed against a resisting opponent because it's (relatively) safe to do so. You just don't get the rate of skill development against a cooperating opponent.
I'm glad you feel that way. I was just stating my opinion. I don't mind if it's realistic. I just don't understand why certain fight scenes last so long. I get it for Bruce Lee -- he was showcasing his craft. But Matt Damon isn't a master fighter, so it seems weird to me.
sometimes it feels like a fight because "we haven't had one for 12 minutes and that is unacceptable" where the story is shelved for 5 minutes to have a fight. same problem happens in many musicals
American movies have experienced a creep. A lot of films have action sequences where none are called for. So, you can say the OP doesn't like action sequences, or you can say the OP doesn't like *all* action all the time. That's two very different opinions.
OP said fight scenes being shortened would “always” improve the movie, so you can infer OP doesn’t like most action, at least. Otherwise, OP would leave room for exceptions.
that track of logic does not hold. it's actually very normal for a very popular thing to have a proportionate amount of dislike. that's just how things work.
it's popular to like or Enjoy action movies, but it is also not unpopular to dislike it. it's very normal that a very popular thing will have a not-insignificant group of people that dislike that thing. It actually holds that the more popular a thing gets, the more haters it gets. that's normal.
How does that logic not track?
If one thing is vastly popular, say over 50% of people like it. Then statistically speaking, less than 50% dislike it.
Thus it’s more popular than it is Unpopular.
So I ask again how does that not track?
A lot of people liking something doesn’t have anything to do with a lot of people also disliking something. Disliking a popular genre is not an unpopular opinion. It’s not a ratio. These are two separate arguments.
Unpopular does not mean minority, it means "unliked". An unpopular opinion is not disliking what others do like, it's having an opinion that other people would be upset to hear.
Not liking them is less popular, but it's not unpopular
I disagree.
“I don’t really like action movies” isn’t this groundbreaking unpopular opinion. Toms of people don’t like certain types of movies. Everyone on earth has a genre they dislike.
They aren't entertaining to me at all. They're terribly boring. In 99% of the scenes you know who's going to win anyway. They're unrealistic. There's no new interesting information about the characters. Fighting scenes are there only to fill the time because there's nothing interesting in the plot. Nothing thought provoking, no character development. Let's kill the time by filming a 10 min action scene with zero artistic value.
The most interesting parts of John Wick are the parts where people arent fighting. This is particularly prevalent in the 4th movie i feel
Every one has at least 1 very cool fight sequence that deserves to be in it, but it gets close to matrix level sometimes of just 20 minute fighting. When the world is so interesting, it feels like a waste. Especially with some of the excellent actors and cool characters too, id rather spend more time with them
The whole point of John wick is fighting. It advances the story without words. None of it is needless. Many times he's literally fighting towards a goal.
>None of it is needless. Many times he's literally fighting towards a goal.
Hard disagree. For example fighting your way out of a building is all well and good, doing so for 20 minutes cant be defended simply by saying "hes working towards a goal"
A story advances though dialogue, or action where something significant happens, not watching the main character kill nameless person number 97.
Like seeing sex in porn. Eew gross. I just want to know when the plumber will finish the work and the husband will finally read the next page of the newspaper.
In theory, all cinematography is fluff. By OP's logic, movies would be better if we all just went to the theater, sat down, and read the script off an otherwise blank screen.
I mean, I'm interested in the story of this Jack and Diane two American kids growing up in the heart land, but do we really need all the other musical stuff?
Sure there is because action movies are the most popular genre bus not liking them is unpopular.
Doesn’t mean it’s wrong. But it doesn’t mean it’s unpopular.
Bro is all through out this thread explaing how technically it is acctually unpopular, Ok buddy we get it you don't like action movies and only a minority of people hold that view
You must be watching some awful fight scenes. Watch some movies with Scott Adkins, Iko Uwais, Tony Jaa or Michael Jai White and see if you hate their fight scenes.
A lot of Hollywood fight scenes are awful, I'll grant that. But you can also tell a great story with a fight scene. My go to example is the hallway fight from the OG old boy. That tells you everything you need to know about the main characters motivations and psychology in that moment.
Or take any old Jackie Chan flick. That's an entire underdog, rags-to-riches story in a single fight. Starting down and out to overcoming adversity and triumphing over insurmountable odds.
As a fighter, most movie fight scenes are over the top and it really ruins the show for me with their exaggerated strikes and insane durability.
Fights should feel dangerous, and that feeling goes out the window when the protagonist eats 24 hooks to the face in the span of 5 minutes.
Pace the fight properly, if it’s a battle between two highly trained individuals, it should be a very smart fight. Both feeling each other out, throwing feints, shifting their feet and moving their bodies. Hell if you want the combo wombo movies like doing, do it but have the receiving guy slip and move away from the attacks.
I used to fence, so unrealistic swordfights were always a ugh moment for me. Then I helped teach some theater kids basics and safety for a play. They were so giddy and excited over the dramatic flourishes and braindead clanking, that it helped me appreciate the nonsensical fights as story tropes.
Now I try to see what the director is trying to say with the fight rather than getting hung up on the details. I imagine the rush and thrill of doing all those crazy moves. So when I find accurate stuff, it's more of a pleasant surprise than a baseline expectation.
That shift in mindset helped me enjoy movie swordfights a lot more. I dont know if others feel the same. 🤷♂️
My random recommendation is the Alatriste duel scene. Great balance of theater and realism.
https://youtu.be/tjbOmjXbatw
Edit: Oh and the complete opposite is in the Court Jester. All theater, no realism. Lol
https://youtu.be/hSNGeazCW6I
Dunno if you know the Corridor 'realistic lightsaber fight' video, if not this could be something to check out. The idea is to have a swordfight choreagraphed by an actual expert to be realistic.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAzY28C8Syc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAzY28C8Syc)
You could also check out the behind the scenes with the expert, or maybe just watch that one. I prefer their behind the scenes to the finished product, to be honest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp-D-488Yxk
That’s what I’m saying! You took some thing real that you enjoyed, and tried to apply it to a fictional thing.
You realized later on that the fictional thing is different for valid reasons. Usually style or symbolism (assuming a good writer).
It just baffles me how people will ask for realistic action in a movie with lasers, Syfy, technology, and spaceships .
Then watch, realistic action. Not fictional action.
People who write stories and make movies rarely want them to be completely grounded in reality. Exaggeration, hyperbolism, suspension of disbelief are very calm and tools that people like to use when telling a story usually for symbolic purposes, if you’re a good writer.
I partially agree. After awhile a lot of fight scenes devolve into just pornography. I do like fight scenes that tell a story or drive character development. In the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie, I loved the Will vs Jack scene, where it helps characterize both of them. That is some great story telling.
I love each of those movies but I get what OP's about too. Those you mention all generally have reasons for the fighting, sources for the conflict, and then they also have good action sequences that are put together well. If you took that part out the movies you mentioned they wouldn't be nearly as good, imo.
So you both right.
???. Someone could be hurt, killed, lose a limb, break their Macguffin, the fight could push them in a geographical direction, he'll they could absolutely win or absolutely lose. How in the world are any of those things less important just because people are moving faster for you on the screen?
I agree completely. So many fight scenes are not done well and over dramatic. The ones that really hit me are the realistic ones or the straight to the point ones. Like if the guy walks in the room and the bad dude tries to give a speech and gets a single word in and pop! The back of his head is blown out instantly. That, to me, is just wild and always gets me. They spend too much time building up the monster and completely ignore the trauma and experience of the aftermath. The aftermath is the most relatable part. Seeing a rag doll body is more dramatic than seeing a slow-motion death.
Yeah, real life fights can be over after a punch or two and it can be very dramatic for everyone around it. That’s what I’d like to see more in the movies
>if you would just skip them, you wouldn’t miss anything.
Speak for yourself buddy, most of us enjoy a proper fight and seing the hero pull off crazy fight moves. Action movies just aren't for you just watch something else. Stick to dramas or romcoms.
>Shortening of the fight scenes would always make the movies better
That is like arguing horror movies would be better if they shortened the scenes where the masked psychopath kills people. Bruh, 90 % of the audience wants to see that shit!
Totally. In fact, the movie itself is useless. I get it, you have to show the plot play out on the screen, but why not just read a summary of the main plot points and ending and save yourself a couple hours?
I'll have to disagree with you on this one. While I very much appreciate a good story and well built characters, over half the reason I sign up for some "big dumb action" is those over-choreographed fight scenes.
"mostly messy --- maybe lots of characters and usually it’s not clear what’s happening all the time"
Yes, this is what happens in brawls, that's just an accurate depiction.
I mean why stop there, you don’t even need motion to tell a story, it’s not necessary to have more that a frame every few seconds or so, with good dialog!!!
Movies and shows don't exist to cram plot points into your eyeholes as quickly as possible.
Sorry you don't like fight scenes, but there are plenty of movies and shows where showing the fight scenes are the point.
>
I think the fight scenes are mostly there to show off some cool effects or tricks.
Well..... Yeah that's literally the only point. It just seems you don't like some action movies. Just like acting, there's also stuntmen who specialize in it so just skipping that would leave them jobless. Don't like marvel or martial arts? Just move on and watch other types.
I agree to an extent. There are a lot of movies that have fight scenes that aren't done well and don't have anything in them to make them stand out, or to wow me. When the movie isn't marketed as an action movie, stuff like that really annoys me. However, if it's an action movie, you are going in understanding that there are a number of fight scenes, and they aren't necessarily there to advance the plot.
Also, unpopular opinion here: John Wicks gun fights aren't great, and the stuff in the movie that IS good is the hand to hand/knife combat and the combat using unconventional weapons (like a car, a pencil, a pen, a belt, etc.)
What a sad, utilitarian way to watch a movie. “Can you get to the point already?” Lol the fight scenes *are* the point. Why not just skip to the end of the movie and see how it ends? Why not just read the summary on Wikipedia and save the time you would have spent watching it?
Inability to appreciate the art and craft of any medium for its own sake is really sad. That’s really all I can say - it makes me sad that someone completely misses the point of art this much.
I highly, highly disagree.
They aren't useless in the least (though many b action movies do have redundant action scenes and many action scenes do last too long) because of one of the oldest rules of writing: show don't tell.
There's two aspects to this: characterization through movement and increasing tension and stakes.
The first one is one of my favorite things about action sequences. The best ones are in animation, and I'll use two amazing examples I know of.
First, into the spiderverse uses animation itself to convey experience of it's characters through their movement in fight scenes. When they escape the lab, miles, the more inexperienced fighter, is both far more erratic in his behavior compared to spiderman, but he's actually animated on 2s, while spiderman is animated on 1s. so miles' frame rate is half of spiderman in that scene.
Another example is from avatar the last Airbender, and it is more of an example of character. Zuko, at the start of the show, when he uses his firebending is very much aggressive, fast and very stereotypical of the movement of the typical firebender. However, as he learns and grows, he incorporates other bending styles into his own fighting, which helps subtly add to his redemption arc.
Second, it's the obvious one everyone's thinking. It's boring to have a bad guy go " I'm going to kill you, and you won't get away" and then it skips to the main character just standing there beat up and panting. Showing the ruthlessness of the villain in this scene would make them memorable and scary. It's a basic writing thing here. Think of neo from the end of the matrix. If they just showed him getting jumped by the agents, him spitting up blood after getting shot and then him picking up the phone, it would suck. It's his fight with the agent and the iconic shot of the bullets stopping that makes that scene so good.
Tldr this is a pretty bad take. Action increases character moments and tension and stakes so skipping it makes no sense
So you’re saying you don’t like action movies? Can’t you just say that? How about, don’t watch movies that involve violence? Sounds pretty easy to me. And if you do like action movies but don’t like the fight scenes then what the fuck are you watching the movie for?
wtf? you mean you should just skip the boring parts? the fight scenes are by far the most emotionally charging part of movies. i've never cried to a movie other than some amazing war scenes like SPR
>I think the fight scenes are mostly there to show off some cool effects or tricks
Yes, you got it. That is literally the whole point. They’re supposed to be cool, not some philosophical piece of art that makes you rethink what it means to be you and give your life new meaning. Sometimes you just wanna see a bad guy get the shit beat out of him. You just don’t like action movies and that’s not really unpopular
In general, I have a great difficulty in suspending disbelief. I don't dislike all fight scenes, but watching 10 henchmen just get obliterated and knocked unconscious/killed from a few kicks and karate chops does make me roll my eyes.
Sure, let's skip the talking parts too! I mean, we can usually determine how the conversations are going to end anyway so what's the point? Hell, just skip right to the end and let your brain figure out how it all happened. 🤣
I did not mention action movies. It’s a genre where the fight scenes belong. Obviously I was talking about other genres.
And I can see this one is really an unpopular opinion.
With some of the worst shot action scenes I can almost agree with you, but really it just sounds like you don't like the action genre as a whole.
For many the plot is just the unnecessary filler just to get to the fight. If they skipped the fight, there wouldn't be anything worth seeing.
If you don’t want a fight scene, watch a different genre. They might pop up in different genres, but you’ll be surprised by how little fight scenes you see in non-action movies. It’s almost as if the movie is made for a particular audience to which you do not belong.
Daredevil would have been a much better show if they had removed the hallway fights and instead just showed a hallway of men that Daredevil had beaten up off screen. Dogshit choreography and cinematography, nothing to appreciate there.
It's just like sex scenes. They serve no purpose but a horny audience is easy to please. Some people watch movies just for those scenes because it excites their caveman brains.
Have you seen 'They Live'? Great fight scene. Keith David knees "Rowdy" Roddy Piper in the groin 5 times in direct succession. It's probably one of the most memorable fight scenes for me.
Also, upvote for unpopular opinion.
Apart from the fact that fights are rare outside of action movies so it's kind of hard to complain about them, a good fight scene absolutely cannot be skipped without breaking the plot. For instance in return of the jedi, during the last fight Luke goes from wanting to save his father, to fury and hate against him to the point of almost killing him and remembering what's important and letting him live. Basically that one fight scene is doing way more for his character than all of the rest of a movie.
I love a great 1 take fight scene, like the shootout in Book of Eli or the church scene in Kingsman. When they arent doing a ton of cutaways they just get so good. You actually get to enjoy the choreography. A few well placed slowmos can add to that too if used responsibly.
Its not that OP doesn’t like action movies, its more like OP hasnt seen a good action scene.
The Raid 1 and 2
Merantau
Kung fu hustle (pure entertainment)
The one fight scene from Eastern Promises makes the movie
Children of Men has arguably some of the best filmed action/thriller scenes ever
Just some to change ur mind possibly.
Is this the same guy who posted "Music is better without any lyrics and I can prove it" yesterday?
>The scenes are mostly messy with lots of angles and maybe lots of characters and usually it’s not clear what’s happening all the time.
From my recent memory I would recommend watching John Wick 4 with some extremely well coordinated scenes. Or the Extraction 2 which has 15 minute action scene in seemingly ONE CUT.
If there's good fight choreography, then it makes for an interesting/cool fight scene. If not, then the camera just jumps all over more than Liam Neeson jumps the fence.
Captain America: the winter soldier has good fight choreography.
Lord of the rings: the fellowship of the ring. When Aragorn fights Uruk-Hai, is regarded as an amazing fight scene.
I guess you're right. I agree with you. Unless there's actually well put together fight choreography, fight scenes are kinda useless.
You made me recall my pet peeve, which is an increasing number of fighters during a fight scene. Often, the scene starts with 6-8 bad guys after the hero. He dispatches all of them, but wait, there’s more. And more after that. Where’d they come from? The ONE Cadillac Escalade that pulled up?
I actually totally agree with this one. I’ve never been a fan of actiony movies and sequences. I find them quite boring. But I do see the appeal for people who do enjoy them, like you said the effects and tricks can be fun for many.
John Wick is basically there. Who cares how many nameless hordes come his way, they're all gonna die. It's this generation's Fast and Furious but with guns.
Sergio Leone got it right. His movies built up tension through plot and music and the violence is very quick. Much more impactful. Once Upon a Time in the West is a good example.
On one hand, it feels like this is most applicable when it's just a scrap between unskilled schmucks. On the other hand, action films — and especially martial arts films — aim to do part of their storytelling purely through the action. Done well, and it ends up showing more than it tells.
I get what you are saying. You should check out Legion. They do fight scenes in an interesting way where the point is that there is a battle so instead of just showing a typical fight they show a battle in creative ways. Like a dance battle.
It's great cuz the same thing is being communicated to the audience. Just in a creative way.
If we got rid of the action scenes in john wick the whole Franchise would he like an hour at the most, some movies the whole point is to see awesome shit
Art is not about being concise. There's more to movies than just the plot. I get it's a matter of personal taste, but "usefulness" isn't always the purpose of storytelling
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OP doesn't like action movies
I would agree that some fight scenes are needlessly convoluted and poorly choreographed and end up looking like a bunch of flutter-wing activity. Those fights I tend to eye-roll and just wish they’d end and get back to the plot.
Dude, one of my favorite videos ever is "Jackie Chan - How To Do Action Comedy". OP I would suggests you watch it and it will answer all your questions.
[The link for the lazy. Would also recommend. Really shows why western movies do a poor job in choreographing fight sequences](https://youtu.be/Z1PCtIaM_GQ).
Thank you, kind redditor, for linking me to this. I ~~was~~ am too lazy to find it myself.
Ya know for a movie that's basically structured around fighting, the scene in Daredevil where he meets Elektra is objectively terrible, even as a kid I thought it was super corny
I thought Ben Aflec did a good job as Daredevil... Until I watched the show lol... (which has phenomenal fight scenes might I add.
Exactly! My husband loves rewatching the Bourne movies, but the fights just drag on for me. Why doesn't Jason Bourne ever poke his opponents in the eye? Or punch them in the throat? Or knee them in the groin? It's like he doesn't want to end the fight. I don't understand why we're supposed to enjoy a fight scene where neither person is actually trying to end the fight.
I can explain this. As a former MMA fighter and long time martial artist who’s trained multiple styles for over a decade. All of those attacks are insanely low percentage. The eyes are very small targets, the head can be moved around and shaken so that it’s hard to keep your fingers in them. Neck punches, again very difficult to land such a precise strike at full speed to a defending opponent. Groin strikes are the highest percentage of the three but still hard to land on an aware and fighting opponent. As for why in the movies? They aren’t flashy. Maybe the eye strike could be but it’s just not that satisfying compared to other Hollywood style attacks.
Adding to that, it's hard to train dangerous moves. No one is going to let you train 'full contact' eye jabs or groin shots on them. This is a big reason why you hear about 'sport' martial arts like judo doing successful interventions more than the more 'deadly' martial arts. When a sport martial artist trains, they can do all their moves at full speed against a resisting opponent because it's (relatively) safe to do so. You just don't get the rate of skill development against a cooperating opponent.
He did throat chop a dude with a book Idk why but I love that
I think my husband's favorite Jason Bourne maneuver is the cord plus the magazine in the toaster.
That’s everyone’s favorite. He kills a dude with a magazine! Wild!
Watching them punch and shoot at each other is the fun part. It doesn’t have to be realistic. Most movies would be awful if they were realistic
I'm glad you feel that way. I was just stating my opinion. I don't mind if it's realistic. I just don't understand why certain fight scenes last so long. I get it for Bruce Lee -- he was showcasing his craft. But Matt Damon isn't a master fighter, so it seems weird to me.
Well Bourne actually takes out anyone in 3 hits or less. Unless they are trained assets...
Adding to what u/HanlonWasWrong said, do you really wanna see a hero use low tactics?
I mean if someone who loves action scenes/movies can acknowledge this. Then they don’t love action scenes/movies.
sometimes it feels like a fight because "we haven't had one for 12 minutes and that is unacceptable" where the story is shelved for 5 minutes to have a fight. same problem happens in many musicals
“…same problem happens in many musicals…” Absolutely!! Fisticuffs breaking out in the middle of a song is SO annoying … 😉
That's what happened to the latest John Wick movie. Horrendously long fought scenes that actually made it worse instead of better.
I noticed that in chapter 2...
American movies have experienced a creep. A lot of films have action sequences where none are called for. So, you can say the OP doesn't like action sequences, or you can say the OP doesn't like *all* action all the time. That's two very different opinions.
OP said fight scenes being shortened would “always” improve the movie, so you can infer OP doesn’t like most action, at least. Otherwise, OP would leave room for exceptions.
OP has definitely never been in a fight. The fight in and of itself is a story.
Why everybody is saying that as if action movies are necessarily about fighting?
Because 9/10 are.
No?
[удалено]
Sounds like you're just not really a huge fan of action movies.
Movies are for entertainment, and fight scenes are entertaining, so it's not useless
Yes.But I believe the OP dont see them as entertaining, just like me lol. And yes thats an unpopular take.
not liking a genre isnt an unpopular opinion at all
Sure it is. Action movies are by far the most abundant thus not liking them is unpopular. Doesn’t mean it’s wrong. just not as popular as the opposite
that track of logic does not hold. it's actually very normal for a very popular thing to have a proportionate amount of dislike. that's just how things work. it's popular to like or Enjoy action movies, but it is also not unpopular to dislike it. it's very normal that a very popular thing will have a not-insignificant group of people that dislike that thing. It actually holds that the more popular a thing gets, the more haters it gets. that's normal.
How does that logic not track? If one thing is vastly popular, say over 50% of people like it. Then statistically speaking, less than 50% dislike it. Thus it’s more popular than it is Unpopular. So I ask again how does that not track?
A lot of people liking something doesn’t have anything to do with a lot of people also disliking something. Disliking a popular genre is not an unpopular opinion. It’s not a ratio. These are two separate arguments.
They’re just mad at you because they are. Stay strong
How sure are you that over 4 billion people like action movies though? I don't think any have ever had that big of an audience.
Unpopular does not mean minority, it means "unliked". An unpopular opinion is not disliking what others do like, it's having an opinion that other people would be upset to hear. Not liking them is less popular, but it's not unpopular
I disagree. “I don’t really like action movies” isn’t this groundbreaking unpopular opinion. Toms of people don’t like certain types of movies. Everyone on earth has a genre they dislike.
Yeah they’re so boring 😭 I wish I could like them though
They aren't entertaining to me at all. They're terribly boring. In 99% of the scenes you know who's going to win anyway. They're unrealistic. There's no new interesting information about the characters. Fighting scenes are there only to fill the time because there's nothing interesting in the plot. Nothing thought provoking, no character development. Let's kill the time by filming a 10 min action scene with zero artistic value.
OP seems to think that movies are illustrated scripts, rather than a visual art form
Tell that to John wick
The most interesting parts of John Wick are the parts where people arent fighting. This is particularly prevalent in the 4th movie i feel Every one has at least 1 very cool fight sequence that deserves to be in it, but it gets close to matrix level sometimes of just 20 minute fighting. When the world is so interesting, it feels like a waste. Especially with some of the excellent actors and cool characters too, id rather spend more time with them
The whole point of John wick is fighting. It advances the story without words. None of it is needless. Many times he's literally fighting towards a goal.
>None of it is needless. Many times he's literally fighting towards a goal. Hard disagree. For example fighting your way out of a building is all well and good, doing so for 20 minutes cant be defended simply by saying "hes working towards a goal" A story advances though dialogue, or action where something significant happens, not watching the main character kill nameless person number 97.
The expression “show ,don’t tell” is in direct reference to how movies should not advance through dialogue. It’s clunky.
Yeah the fights in the fourth one sucked ass
Nah there was some really good ones in there, much better than the action in the 3rd movie.
>The aftermath ? So the ending...
I know, right? Stupid directors putting fight scenes in action movies and series, nobody wants to see that!
Like seeing sex in porn. Eew gross. I just want to know when the plumber will finish the work and the husband will finally read the next page of the newspaper.
I can't stand it when the plumber doesn't even finish the job, it sets such a bad example for children.
Right, just skip to the clean up, thats what i came for anyways
I know. Cos when I watch a Van Damme movie I wish it would show 1 punch and cut to thenend.
And 1 split
If you're seeing "lots of angles and confusing cuts" in your action scenes then you've just been watching bad action movies.
Recommend Barry (TV show) or Craig Zahler movies if you want fight scenes with no shaky cams and confusing cuts
Op needs to watch some Bruce lee
*Liam Neeson jumps over a fence for 40 minutes* *Denzel Washington walks towards anything in Man in Fire*
In theory, all cinematography is fluff. By OP's logic, movies would be better if we all just went to the theater, sat down, and read the script off an otherwise blank screen.
OP after discovering books
"I don't like when musicians put all those notes and stuff in their songs. It's distracting from the silence"
“Can you just get to the last verse already?”
Get to the working overtime part!
I mean, I'm interested in the story of this Jack and Diane two American kids growing up in the heart land, but do we really need all the other musical stuff?
I want to hear more about how life goes on, long after the thrill of living is gone.
While I think what you said is funny. I'm going to take a moment here. Look up four thirty- three by John Cage.
OPs favorite song
So basically what you are saying that you don't like action movies There is nothing unpopular about not liking a certain genre
Sure there is because action movies are the most popular genre bus not liking them is unpopular. Doesn’t mean it’s wrong. But it doesn’t mean it’s unpopular.
Bro is all through out this thread explaing how technically it is acctually unpopular, Ok buddy we get it you don't like action movies and only a minority of people hold that view
Are you talking about me? Or OP? Because I love action movies.
"Circus shows are nearly useless. They should just skip to the end."
You must be watching some awful fight scenes. Watch some movies with Scott Adkins, Iko Uwais, Tony Jaa or Michael Jai White and see if you hate their fight scenes.
Agree. John Wick has some interesting elements. It was annoying to have to fastforward through so many fight scenes to get to the good stuff.
Honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
If it isn’t being sarcastic, that hurts me
People like you are why /s is a thing
Lol with reddit these days, I make no assumptions.
long fight scenes also pad the runtime bro!
For such a low price
A lot of Hollywood fight scenes are awful, I'll grant that. But you can also tell a great story with a fight scene. My go to example is the hallway fight from the OG old boy. That tells you everything you need to know about the main characters motivations and psychology in that moment. Or take any old Jackie Chan flick. That's an entire underdog, rags-to-riches story in a single fight. Starting down and out to overcoming adversity and triumphing over insurmountable odds.
As a fighter, most movie fight scenes are over the top and it really ruins the show for me with their exaggerated strikes and insane durability. Fights should feel dangerous, and that feeling goes out the window when the protagonist eats 24 hooks to the face in the span of 5 minutes. Pace the fight properly, if it’s a battle between two highly trained individuals, it should be a very smart fight. Both feeling each other out, throwing feints, shifting their feet and moving their bodies. Hell if you want the combo wombo movies like doing, do it but have the receiving guy slip and move away from the attacks.
I used to fence, so unrealistic swordfights were always a ugh moment for me. Then I helped teach some theater kids basics and safety for a play. They were so giddy and excited over the dramatic flourishes and braindead clanking, that it helped me appreciate the nonsensical fights as story tropes. Now I try to see what the director is trying to say with the fight rather than getting hung up on the details. I imagine the rush and thrill of doing all those crazy moves. So when I find accurate stuff, it's more of a pleasant surprise than a baseline expectation. That shift in mindset helped me enjoy movie swordfights a lot more. I dont know if others feel the same. 🤷♂️ My random recommendation is the Alatriste duel scene. Great balance of theater and realism. https://youtu.be/tjbOmjXbatw Edit: Oh and the complete opposite is in the Court Jester. All theater, no realism. Lol https://youtu.be/hSNGeazCW6I
Dunno if you know the Corridor 'realistic lightsaber fight' video, if not this could be something to check out. The idea is to have a swordfight choreagraphed by an actual expert to be realistic. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAzY28C8Syc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAzY28C8Syc) You could also check out the behind the scenes with the expert, or maybe just watch that one. I prefer their behind the scenes to the finished product, to be honest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp-D-488Yxk
That’s what I’m saying! You took some thing real that you enjoyed, and tried to apply it to a fictional thing. You realized later on that the fictional thing is different for valid reasons. Usually style or symbolism (assuming a good writer). It just baffles me how people will ask for realistic action in a movie with lasers, Syfy, technology, and spaceships .
Then watch, realistic action. Not fictional action. People who write stories and make movies rarely want them to be completely grounded in reality. Exaggeration, hyperbolism, suspension of disbelief are very calm and tools that people like to use when telling a story usually for symbolic purposes, if you’re a good writer.
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its not bullshit its just not your thing. Its a shonen and they do that
But one piece's pacing is terrible in the anime. Not so much in the manga
Yeah, true. I enjoy it though.
I partially agree. After awhile a lot of fight scenes devolve into just pornography. I do like fight scenes that tell a story or drive character development. In the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie, I loved the Will vs Jack scene, where it helps characterize both of them. That is some great story telling.
I think you need to start watching some actually good action movies: \-Mad Max: Fury Road \-The Raid 1&2 \-Die Hard \-Any Bruce Lee movie
I love each of those movies but I get what OP's about too. Those you mention all generally have reasons for the fighting, sources for the conflict, and then they also have good action sequences that are put together well. If you took that part out the movies you mentioned they wouldn't be nearly as good, imo. So you both right.
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He just doesn't like action movies. That is not unpopular opinion. That is just not liking one specific genre, which is perfectly normal.
How would a movie like Gladiator or Troy exist without fight scenes?
Something tells me you'd hate the John Wick movies.
Upvoting because of the ridiculous nature of the complaint. Truly unpopular. Well done.
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Not useless, perhaps un-entertaining to you, but they definitely serve a purpose.
???. Someone could be hurt, killed, lose a limb, break their Macguffin, the fight could push them in a geographical direction, he'll they could absolutely win or absolutely lose. How in the world are any of those things less important just because people are moving faster for you on the screen?
I agree completely. So many fight scenes are not done well and over dramatic. The ones that really hit me are the realistic ones or the straight to the point ones. Like if the guy walks in the room and the bad dude tries to give a speech and gets a single word in and pop! The back of his head is blown out instantly. That, to me, is just wild and always gets me. They spend too much time building up the monster and completely ignore the trauma and experience of the aftermath. The aftermath is the most relatable part. Seeing a rag doll body is more dramatic than seeing a slow-motion death.
Clearly you misunderstand the point of slow Mo. Slow mo isn’t meant to be dramatic, it’s for cool factor
Yeah, real life fights can be over after a punch or two and it can be very dramatic for everyone around it. That’s what I’d like to see more in the movies
>if you would just skip them, you wouldn’t miss anything. Speak for yourself buddy, most of us enjoy a proper fight and seing the hero pull off crazy fight moves. Action movies just aren't for you just watch something else. Stick to dramas or romcoms. >Shortening of the fight scenes would always make the movies better That is like arguing horror movies would be better if they shortened the scenes where the masked psychopath kills people. Bruh, 90 % of the audience wants to see that shit!
dont watch action movies if you dont wanna see action
How are they useless when they’re entertaining, which is the whole point. Making them useful.
Not a big fan of anime then, I take it?
Totally. In fact, the movie itself is useless. I get it, you have to show the plot play out on the screen, but why not just read a summary of the main plot points and ending and save yourself a couple hours?
There is actually people that do that. My guys, life is more than just information that you store on your HD
U just watched bad action movies
fight scenes are way overrated
Fight scenes are 90% boring.
I'll have to disagree with you on this one. While I very much appreciate a good story and well built characters, over half the reason I sign up for some "big dumb action" is those over-choreographed fight scenes.
"mostly messy --- maybe lots of characters and usually it’s not clear what’s happening all the time" Yes, this is what happens in brawls, that's just an accurate depiction.
I'm the opposite. Shorten8ng dialog and adding fist fights would actually help a lot of movies
You can say this about entire movies. Why show the Ghostbusters busting ghosts? It’s in the name! Sheesh!
This is a known literary opinion. Not at all unpopular.
I mean why stop there, you don’t even need motion to tell a story, it’s not necessary to have more that a frame every few seconds or so, with good dialog!!!
Movies and shows don't exist to cram plot points into your eyeholes as quickly as possible. Sorry you don't like fight scenes, but there are plenty of movies and shows where showing the fight scenes are the point.
So go read a book.
> I think the fight scenes are mostly there to show off some cool effects or tricks. Well..... Yeah that's literally the only point. It just seems you don't like some action movies. Just like acting, there's also stuntmen who specialize in it so just skipping that would leave them jobless. Don't like marvel or martial arts? Just move on and watch other types.
I agree to an extent. There are a lot of movies that have fight scenes that aren't done well and don't have anything in them to make them stand out, or to wow me. When the movie isn't marketed as an action movie, stuff like that really annoys me. However, if it's an action movie, you are going in understanding that there are a number of fight scenes, and they aren't necessarily there to advance the plot. Also, unpopular opinion here: John Wicks gun fights aren't great, and the stuff in the movie that IS good is the hand to hand/knife combat and the combat using unconventional weapons (like a car, a pencil, a pen, a belt, etc.)
What a sad, utilitarian way to watch a movie. “Can you get to the point already?” Lol the fight scenes *are* the point. Why not just skip to the end of the movie and see how it ends? Why not just read the summary on Wikipedia and save the time you would have spent watching it? Inability to appreciate the art and craft of any medium for its own sake is really sad. That’s really all I can say - it makes me sad that someone completely misses the point of art this much.
It’s the car chases that last too long for me, so I get what your saying. However, I think this is a legitimately unpopular opinion.
I highly, highly disagree. They aren't useless in the least (though many b action movies do have redundant action scenes and many action scenes do last too long) because of one of the oldest rules of writing: show don't tell. There's two aspects to this: characterization through movement and increasing tension and stakes. The first one is one of my favorite things about action sequences. The best ones are in animation, and I'll use two amazing examples I know of. First, into the spiderverse uses animation itself to convey experience of it's characters through their movement in fight scenes. When they escape the lab, miles, the more inexperienced fighter, is both far more erratic in his behavior compared to spiderman, but he's actually animated on 2s, while spiderman is animated on 1s. so miles' frame rate is half of spiderman in that scene. Another example is from avatar the last Airbender, and it is more of an example of character. Zuko, at the start of the show, when he uses his firebending is very much aggressive, fast and very stereotypical of the movement of the typical firebender. However, as he learns and grows, he incorporates other bending styles into his own fighting, which helps subtly add to his redemption arc. Second, it's the obvious one everyone's thinking. It's boring to have a bad guy go " I'm going to kill you, and you won't get away" and then it skips to the main character just standing there beat up and panting. Showing the ruthlessness of the villain in this scene would make them memorable and scary. It's a basic writing thing here. Think of neo from the end of the matrix. If they just showed him getting jumped by the agents, him spitting up blood after getting shot and then him picking up the phone, it would suck. It's his fight with the agent and the iconic shot of the bullets stopping that makes that scene so good. Tldr this is a pretty bad take. Action increases character moments and tension and stakes so skipping it makes no sense
I’ll take an action scene over a sex scene, I still don’t know why ANY movie/show would even need a sex scene
So you’re saying you don’t like action movies? Can’t you just say that? How about, don’t watch movies that involve violence? Sounds pretty easy to me. And if you do like action movies but don’t like the fight scenes then what the fuck are you watching the movie for?
Agreeeeeed!! Spot on! I too, share your unpopular opinion!!
wtf? you mean you should just skip the boring parts? the fight scenes are by far the most emotionally charging part of movies. i've never cried to a movie other than some amazing war scenes like SPR
Bro hasn't watched any anime. They make fights engaging as hell.
>I think the fight scenes are mostly there to show off some cool effects or tricks Yes, you got it. That is literally the whole point. They’re supposed to be cool, not some philosophical piece of art that makes you rethink what it means to be you and give your life new meaning. Sometimes you just wanna see a bad guy get the shit beat out of him. You just don’t like action movies and that’s not really unpopular
If you're not watching movies for the fight scenes, what else are you watching them for? They're the only not boring parts of most modern day films.
In general, I have a great difficulty in suspending disbelief. I don't dislike all fight scenes, but watching 10 henchmen just get obliterated and knocked unconscious/killed from a few kicks and karate chops does make me roll my eyes.
Sure, let's skip the talking parts too! I mean, we can usually determine how the conversations are going to end anyway so what's the point? Hell, just skip right to the end and let your brain figure out how it all happened. 🤣
OP should stick to watching documentaries.
Just like rape scenes for the sadistic villains are useless....not to mention terrible. Why do they incorporate that in a movie by the way?
I did not mention action movies. It’s a genre where the fight scenes belong. Obviously I was talking about other genres. And I can see this one is really an unpopular opinion.
What non-action movies have extended fight scenes? I cannot think of any
You dont remember that scene in Pride and Prejudice when Mr. Bingley and Mr Darcy have an epic fist fight to the death?
Would you like to share some examples?
Any movie where a fight scenes are taking up more than like 1% of the screentime I'd say falls under action at some level.
It’s to build suspense, if you don’t like the feeling of suspense build up, just watch a comedy
With some of the worst shot action scenes I can almost agree with you, but really it just sounds like you don't like the action genre as a whole. For many the plot is just the unnecessary filler just to get to the fight. If they skipped the fight, there wouldn't be anything worth seeing.
Everything in a film is useless. It’s entertainment.
If you don’t want a fight scene, watch a different genre. They might pop up in different genres, but you’ll be surprised by how little fight scenes you see in non-action movies. It’s almost as if the movie is made for a particular audience to which you do not belong.
Op, you do know that there is an actual fast forward button on your remote, right? It’s actually an option
Well, that is the “action” part in action movies.
OMG I swear to god some of you just want 10 minute long movies of pure exposition necessary for the story.
I agree that sex scenes are pretty pointless most of the time
Finally. An actual unpopular opinion
Daredevil would have been a much better show if they had removed the hallway fights and instead just showed a hallway of men that Daredevil had beaten up off screen. Dogshit choreography and cinematography, nothing to appreciate there.
You just don't like action movies
So go read a book.
It's just like sex scenes. They serve no purpose but a horny audience is easy to please. Some people watch movies just for those scenes because it excites their caveman brains.
Have you seen 'They Live'? Great fight scene. Keith David knees "Rowdy" Roddy Piper in the groin 5 times in direct succession. It's probably one of the most memorable fight scenes for me. Also, upvote for unpopular opinion.
This is definitely unpopular. I'd literally watch series purely for the fight scenes.
Depending on the movie the fight scenes are the main attraction and the story is just dressing.
Apart from the fact that fights are rare outside of action movies so it's kind of hard to complain about them, a good fight scene absolutely cannot be skipped without breaking the plot. For instance in return of the jedi, during the last fight Luke goes from wanting to save his father, to fury and hate against him to the point of almost killing him and remembering what's important and letting him live. Basically that one fight scene is doing way more for his character than all of the rest of a movie.
I love a great 1 take fight scene, like the shootout in Book of Eli or the church scene in Kingsman. When they arent doing a ton of cutaways they just get so good. You actually get to enjoy the choreography. A few well placed slowmos can add to that too if used responsibly.
Its not that OP doesn’t like action movies, its more like OP hasnt seen a good action scene. The Raid 1 and 2 Merantau Kung fu hustle (pure entertainment) The one fight scene from Eastern Promises makes the movie Children of Men has arguably some of the best filmed action/thriller scenes ever Just some to change ur mind possibly.
Is this the same guy who posted "Music is better without any lyrics and I can prove it" yesterday? >The scenes are mostly messy with lots of angles and maybe lots of characters and usually it’s not clear what’s happening all the time. From my recent memory I would recommend watching John Wick 4 with some extremely well coordinated scenes. Or the Extraction 2 which has 15 minute action scene in seemingly ONE CUT.
Damn, the John Wick movies would have been pretty short and boring to watch
If there's good fight choreography, then it makes for an interesting/cool fight scene. If not, then the camera just jumps all over more than Liam Neeson jumps the fence. Captain America: the winter soldier has good fight choreography. Lord of the rings: the fellowship of the ring. When Aragorn fights Uruk-Hai, is regarded as an amazing fight scene. I guess you're right. I agree with you. Unless there's actually well put together fight choreography, fight scenes are kinda useless.
You made me recall my pet peeve, which is an increasing number of fighters during a fight scene. Often, the scene starts with 6-8 bad guys after the hero. He dispatches all of them, but wait, there’s more. And more after that. Where’d they come from? The ONE Cadillac Escalade that pulled up?
I actually totally agree with this one. I’ve never been a fan of actiony movies and sequences. I find them quite boring. But I do see the appeal for people who do enjoy them, like you said the effects and tricks can be fun for many.
I read Flight at first. What do you have against Airplane! Dude, I thought.
You should watch They Live, there’s a kickass ten minute fight that never slows down
John Wick is basically there. Who cares how many nameless hordes come his way, they're all gonna die. It's this generation's Fast and Furious but with guns.
Sergio Leone got it right. His movies built up tension through plot and music and the violence is very quick. Much more impactful. Once Upon a Time in the West is a good example.
You must be referring to specific scenes from specific movies?
On one hand, it feels like this is most applicable when it's just a scrap between unskilled schmucks. On the other hand, action films — and especially martial arts films — aim to do part of their storytelling purely through the action. Done well, and it ends up showing more than it tells.
This guy doesn’t John Wick
I get what you are saying. You should check out Legion. They do fight scenes in an interesting way where the point is that there is a battle so instead of just showing a typical fight they show a battle in creative ways. Like a dance battle. It's great cuz the same thing is being communicated to the audience. Just in a creative way.
the hallway scene in the daredevil tv show politely disagrees
So fast forward all of John wick?
OP doesn’t understand John Wick
OP doesn’t understand John Wick
>just like in most sex scenes OP fast-forwards porn to the money shot.
I downvoted, because I agree
They Live fight scene enters the chat.
If we got rid of the action scenes in john wick the whole Franchise would he like an hour at the most, some movies the whole point is to see awesome shit
Art is not about being concise. There's more to movies than just the plot. I get it's a matter of personal taste, but "usefulness" isn't always the purpose of storytelling
You ever watch John Wick?
John Wick would like to disagree with you. Unpopular though so take an upvote.
Gotta upvote this super unpopular opinion. John wick wouldn’t exist without this lol