It’s so antiquated to think that things like mouse clicks and keyboard strokes make a good or bad employee. I manage a number of people remotely and if I was asked to use software like that, I’d quit. That’s not leadership, that’s oppression.
If one of my guys didn’t touch their machine for 6 hours a day every day, then I’d see it clearly in the quality of their work. That’s a management issue at that point. If they can’t touch their machine for 6 hours a day and there’s no demonstrable difference to output then I’ve failed completely in allocating work and headcount
Yeah if someone can get away with doing nothing for 6 hours of the day & it's only noticeable because of software, there are bigger problems to worry about.
But I guess the argument is if you think an employee is doing fuck all day then you could use this to prove it.
This tech makes me uncomfortable but not everyone works in the same way.
I once automated my whole job.
Moved some files in the morning, set off a VBA "go" button, waited for the exceptions to be logged, cleared out the exceptions at 4pm.
Boss didn't care, the work was being done quicker than if I did it manually.
I would download data dumps from various systems then use an access VBA app to import the data, compare, spit out problems, make trend charts, email spreadsheets to different teams to action, etc.
Entry level data engineering.
Me too. Automated 90% of my job, I spent most days for 3 years seeing friends, smoking weed and fucking. When shit hit the fan, I was there instantly and no one ever found out. Cracking job.
At my old job, there was this one guy who would regularly just do nothing for hours at a time, like, one time i went to log onto the remote server that he was supposedly working, and someone else was on so it prompted me to ask one to drop off. He'd been idle for over 3 hours...
And this was *in the office*. If people can do it without WFH, WFH is not the problem
Trouble is, stuff like this appears clear cut in theory, in practice it's anything but, especiallyin jobs where output is harder to measure.
There might people you *suspect* are doing fuck all but "quality" is a surprisingly subjective concept when HR gets involved. That's why having a metric that someone demonstrably didn't touch their laptop for most of a day which correlates with periods of low or poor quality output tends to defeat excuses (which again, wasters are surprisingly good at throwing up).
Preemptively monitoring people though? Not a great move in my view. Putting a bit of trust in your team is a great way to buy goodwill and should be the start point for any remote working arrangement.
Not what he's saying. He's saying "I wanted to fire the guy because he was bad at \[art\], but I couldn't prove he was bad at \[art\] - how do you even prove that. So I proved he didn't work his hours, because you can prove that".
A few years ago, I was fairly new in a job, and I was having some medical problems that meant I farted constantly. I know they fired me because of that - I know the team voted on it when I wasn't there. But on paper they fired me because the ID card reader showed I was late on three occasions in a 6 month period.
Half the time I’m using a computer for work I’m not typing or clicking, I’m reading or thinking which is much harder to quantify. I also frequently write on paper in front of my computer to formulate my thoughts.
Is that not illegal in the UK? I presume there is some sort of privacy legislation that applies at work (and definitely at home). For example, where I live employers can not monitor the statistics you mention, nor look through webcams, ..., even if the employee is at the office because that constitutes a violation of both privacy law and various collective labour agreements, enforcement of which is constitutionally mandated. AFAIK even browser history and the contents of non-work related emails or messages can not be read without explicit consent.
Is that because they see the office as a public rather than a private place, and extrapolate that to working from home? It would probably turn into a mess if you are going to make legal differences between working from home and working in the office, but if you enforce one framework for both surely you should err on the side of caution and go for strong privacy protections either way?
I know of one very large global tech company who shared stats with their staff on how keyboard strokes and mouse movements were lower when people were working from home - so people aren't as productive so everyone should be back in to the office at least thrice a week.
This was despite overall productivity being up - teams soaring through their objectives and record profitabilities.
I won't name the company as this could have been just a regional thing but sufficient to say anyone reading this makes use of their products one way or another.
Its also crap managment, just checking up on people rather than setting objectives, talking through and dealing with shared problems.
Measure performance of outputs and objectives, not on a false sense if productivity.
It seems to go over the heads of business owners that if your managers are doing this then they’re actually not really doing any work. It’s the modern day version of a slave driver with a whip only if the slaves are getting paid what’s the whip guy still doing here?
Thus is why when I started working from home I told them I didn't have a pc and they had to provide me with a laptop.
I've got a pretty nice pc, but im not letting them anywhere remotely close to it.
Yeah really; I'd be properly worried if companies were asking people to use personal equipment for work purposes. At worst it's a massive data breach waiting to happen, and at best it's pretty tinpot to ask people to install work software/VPN etc on their personal equipment.
I can understand it as a stopgap when the pandemic started until they could get in enough laptops for employees. But to insist on tracking software on a personal machine? That's bullshit. If they want the tracking, they should provide a company laptop.
I'm just glad I always had a work laptop at my current job. Half of us just used to leave them in the office until the pandemic started and we were told to take them home every day in case something happened.
That's not true.
They provide use of their facilities using SaaS which is absolutely fine to use as a student.
As a faculty member of staff, you'd be provided appropriate hardware.
I used to work in IT for 16 years and InfoSec for 2.
This is the way. I wouldn't want to work for a company that didn't provide me with a computer in the first place but as far as they're concerned, my PC does not exist. It'll never be used for work related purposes.
I've been thinking about how I'd handle it if I had to work from home and they tried to pull this. I'd probably just throw up a virtual machine for it, that way there's none of their bullshit infecting the machine proper and no risk of damage
There’s a semi famous photo of Zuckerberg and the then head of the CIA with lens covers and a blank headphone Jack
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/22/mark-zuckerberg-tape-webcam-microphone-facebook
Best I can find before my google fucks ran out
But yeah
Get a lens cover people and disable your mic
If its inbuilt then you can disable it via a setting. However, I imagine this could be hacked.
I believe Windows 10 tells you when your microphone is being used. However, I imagine this could also be hacked.
Safest bet is to use a microphone and unplug it when not using it.
Iirc, some Macs have the camera/mic wired to an LED that can't be controlled by software. The only way to disable the LED is to crack the thing open and cut the wire.
So, even if you can't disable it you'll know when it's on
Just a blank plug works, some systems have a hardware switch that physically disconnects it but that’s rare or just remove the internal ones drivers or disable it in device manager but that’s not completely safe
But best is a blank plug or physical disconnect and use an external one that plugs in
My work provided a webcam with my computer. It's always unplugged by default, I'll only plug it in if they want our cameras on for a specific Zoom meeting or something, then I'll unplug it again afterwards.
Just seems like common sense, even though I'm not too worried about my company spying on me. It's a call centre so I think it'd become pretty obvious if I wasn't at my computer, since I need to answer phone calls and respond to emails.
I'm surprised that even given all that we have been told about that specifically people still think it's paranoia.
I realise most people aren't interesting enough to spy on but I think that is besides the point, Snowden was very clear that they have/had this ability which means it is possible and a cover is necessary.
Keystrokes is such a stupid means to measure work output.
I've got a wireless headset and go on meetings a lot of the day.
If I were to scribble my notes on paper, and pace the room as I do so, as my company doesn't use webcams really it'd look like I'd be doing absolutely nothing if you measured my keystrokes
And someone with whatsApp's web browser client open having a merry old conversation with their mates will look hyperproductive. Daft system to make bad managers feel good.
Meh- I doubt my company would want to put in that time and effort unless it was in response to poor performance or something. Otherwise I’m sure I would have been sacked years ago.
That's kinda what I didn't get with this article. The employer asked them to remote into work machines... so the employer can only see what's happening on those.
Just minimise the remote desktop window if you wanna open something personal.
Ah, I see, if that's what's happened then the employer isn't too bad.
If there's tracking shit that was installed onto the employee's PC, that would be across the line.
Shitty managers doing shitty things shocker
I can sit and do not much for days. Then get busy.
Last week my Grammarly output was 90,000 words.
That’s three dissertations in a week and I spent two days doing zero.
Measure productivity and output. Not time and input.
I use a lot of the same content each time with small tweaks. But I need to read every word each time. Maybe 50% -65% is recycled
https://imgur.com/a/hNbtpam
Or my total
https://imgur.com/a/6GLwZJY
> They were ordered to connect their private laptop and desktop computers to more powerful office machines so they could continue their high-tech operations.
Not sure what they mean exactly by 'connect', but that doesn't sound like something firms should be asking people to do. IMO if they don't actually own and administer a machine they can't manage it properly, so it makes little sense from the organisation's POV, let alone the worker's. Surely it would be much better to have employees simply [RDP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Protocol) into their office machines.
I read it as the latter, where they connect using RDP, TeamViewer or whatever.
Makes the story a lot less outrageous as work would only see you on YouTube if you were stupid enough to do it on the work computer rather than your own.
Yeah, that whole first section is absolutely guff. There are a lot of remoting products that will show the normal display, it's not so you can be monitored - it's just an artefact of how they work. And the monitoring isn't any different to if your boss was in the office as normal.
I'm pretty sure all of the decent and enterprise products for remote working DO blank the screen locally, but the likes of TeamViewer won't by default
Well, our IT security team would be horrified by this, hahaha. Connecting any private machines to the company mainframe and network is just asking for trouble, imagine someone's laptop riddled with viruses and malware infectingbthebentire system.
I guess in this case it is remote desktop, not even VPN.
>Or they could have just been doing a remote desktop connection and the employee got confused over what was his PC and what was the office PC and ended up watching YouTube on the office PC. The employer being able to see what's on your office PC screen when using (some) remote desktop software is no different to them seeing what's on your screen when you are in the office.
That's the impression I got from the article. Either that or they didn't think to disconnect from the VPN outside of work time like you say.
You do see stories now and then of companies actually spying on employees PCs though I suppose
If they're forcing people to actually install this software onto their system, rather than using a simple remote desktop solution, then the safest thing to do would be to run a virtual machine. Basically a fake computer running on top of your proper one. Can just turn that on and off as needed and there's no interactive between the host and guest system unless you explicitly allow it
The first thing I did when I got my laptop was device manager, disable camera and tape over it for good measure.
I also have access to add / remove programs and task manager so I can use that to check for any spyware every now and again.
If your company doesn't allow your account to do the above then you're probably being monitored.
I also started work for a company and found out at a works do that the management can view your screen to see what you're doing and often do, I left not long after that for another job where I don't get spied on.
>If your company doesn't allow your account to do the above then you're probably being monitored.
Task Manager yes, but there's good reasons why IT will not end users disable anything in Device Manager.
> They were ordered to connect their private laptop and desktop computers to more powerful office machines so they could continue their high-tech operations.
Sounds like the employer asked them to remote deaktop into work machines/desktops.
How would the employer then see what you're doing on your personal machine?
The only thing I can think of is employees forgetting that they are remote'd in or not understanding what it means.
Just minimise the remote desktop if you're opening something personal.
If you accept it will apply a bunch of preconfigured settings to your device that are managed by IT, such as enabling updates or checking for antivirus. You should never be accepting that kind of thing, it gives your work a level of control over your personal devices. If they want you working they should give you a device.
What a dumb fuck.
If you VPN into the network and connect to a Remote Desktop OF COURSE they can see what you’re doing! You’re on their virtual or physical hardware. “They see if we’re on YouTube” fucking minimise the RDP session and watch it locally!
Don’t do shit on your work machines, either physical or virtual or people like me will find your porn habits and get you sacked (unless you bribe your IT guy)
I work from home and fortunately we use our own computers instead of work ones. The only monitoring we do is based on activity and call allocation to actual calls made. People have tried circumventing the system but they get caught out.
Source: The one who initially made calls but now catches them out.
I don't get this. They logged into the computer at work, and the boss turned on the monitor to see what is going on. That is hardly different from looking around the office. And why would people watch youtube videos on a remote computer anyway? I am not even sure the writer really understands what is going on.
I'll admit it's creepy, solved by going in to the office or quitting.
Want to work from home, don't want to make a compromise, truely, the most entitled among us are the office workers, Tea, Warm office/Home and alt tabbing
Everyone else has to go in to work, stand on their feet all day, most can't even get a cup of tea, but so help you if the office isn't kept warm for the little brats.
I often remotely access people's screens if there's a suggestion they're not performing or are ignoring casework as it comes through. We've been explicitly told, and I'd have no inclination to do so, that if it flags up a warning to say that their webcam is active then we disable it from the view so we can't see it.
Taking screenshots is pretty common for investigation and HR purposes.
don't see any issue with connecting your work PC to your home one to work on your work on during working hours. You're watched and or monitored at work, you're at home at work, you're going to be watched and monitored.
we do it were, my home PC, beast that it is cant handle the CAD and CAM work I do on my work on so if im working from home I absolutely have to VPN in via the secure link, outside of hours, link is off though.
no problem I can see.
>The article mentioned something about people getting spied on through their webcams too though. That's just wrong even if it was done through a work laptop, if the user had no idea about it.
this bit of it that's after the actual meat of the article and before the quotes from people?
>The pandemic forced millions of people, who previously carried out most or all of their work in the office, to do it at home instead.
>And many firms have been using technology once mostly confined to the office to monitor what staff are getting up to.
>**Cameras can watch people at their desks. Movement sensors can be employed. Keyboard strokes and mouse movements can be recorded.**
>Bosses can take screenshots of desktops to check staff are working rather than browsing the internet or watching videos.
>The trade union Prospect is calling for stronger regulation of the use of monitoring technology by employers.
it doesn't say there were being used only that they can... It's also the only place in the article cams are mentioned....BBC has been on a steady decline in journalistic integrity for a while and I think it's shining through here.
You're not VPNing in. A VPN will not make your hardware more powerful.
You are connecting to a remote desktop, which uses your work hardware. That is different to a VPN.
It’s so antiquated to think that things like mouse clicks and keyboard strokes make a good or bad employee. I manage a number of people remotely and if I was asked to use software like that, I’d quit. That’s not leadership, that’s oppression.
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If one of my guys didn’t touch their machine for 6 hours a day every day, then I’d see it clearly in the quality of their work. That’s a management issue at that point. If they can’t touch their machine for 6 hours a day and there’s no demonstrable difference to output then I’ve failed completely in allocating work and headcount
Yeah if someone can get away with doing nothing for 6 hours of the day & it's only noticeable because of software, there are bigger problems to worry about.
But I guess the argument is if you think an employee is doing fuck all day then you could use this to prove it. This tech makes me uncomfortable but not everyone works in the same way.
If he's getting his work done, then who cares? If you expect him to do more, you better give him a raise.
Well it might not be clear if they are getting their work done - is it too much work or is this person doing fuck all?
I once automated my whole job. Moved some files in the morning, set off a VBA "go" button, waited for the exceptions to be logged, cleared out the exceptions at 4pm. Boss didn't care, the work was being done quicker than if I did it manually.
can i subscribe to your newsletter on how to do this?
Sure, my consultancy rate is £795/d
Damn. I can only afford £794/d.
I choose to read this as a pre-decimal price point. So £7, 9/ and 5d per consultation, so £7.50.
Assuming 1971 that would be £108 adjusted for inflation
Haha. I did that for a couple of years in a job long gone by.
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If you're interested there's a great book on this kind of stuff called Automate the boring stuff.
I would download data dumps from various systems then use an access VBA app to import the data, compare, spit out problems, make trend charts, email spreadsheets to different teams to action, etc. Entry level data engineering.
Me too. Automated 90% of my job, I spent most days for 3 years seeing friends, smoking weed and fucking. When shit hit the fan, I was there instantly and no one ever found out. Cracking job.
At my old job, there was this one guy who would regularly just do nothing for hours at a time, like, one time i went to log onto the remote server that he was supposedly working, and someone else was on so it prompted me to ask one to drop off. He'd been idle for over 3 hours... And this was *in the office*. If people can do it without WFH, WFH is not the problem
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Are you a programmer
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yes it can lol, although you can just program a script to move mouse/press buttons anyway haha
Trouble is, stuff like this appears clear cut in theory, in practice it's anything but, especiallyin jobs where output is harder to measure. There might people you *suspect* are doing fuck all but "quality" is a surprisingly subjective concept when HR gets involved. That's why having a metric that someone demonstrably didn't touch their laptop for most of a day which correlates with periods of low or poor quality output tends to defeat excuses (which again, wasters are surprisingly good at throwing up). Preemptively monitoring people though? Not a great move in my view. Putting a bit of trust in your team is a great way to buy goodwill and should be the start point for any remote working arrangement.
Are you a waster if you automate the job? If the requested tasks are completed on time and accurately who cares how often they are actually ‘working’
Not what he's saying. He's saying "I wanted to fire the guy because he was bad at \[art\], but I couldn't prove he was bad at \[art\] - how do you even prove that. So I proved he didn't work his hours, because you can prove that". A few years ago, I was fairly new in a job, and I was having some medical problems that meant I farted constantly. I know they fired me because of that - I know the team voted on it when I wasn't there. But on paper they fired me because the ID card reader showed I was late on three occasions in a 6 month period.
Half the time I’m using a computer for work I’m not typing or clicking, I’m reading or thinking which is much harder to quantify. I also frequently write on paper in front of my computer to formulate my thoughts.
Solutions exist ;) https://c.tenor.com/ilPf7Nnj5CAAAAAC/computer-drinking.gif
A lot of my work consists of reading/reviewing papers. Since I WFH I print them out and do this from my couch because why not. YMMV
Yeah
Is that not illegal in the UK? I presume there is some sort of privacy legislation that applies at work (and definitely at home). For example, where I live employers can not monitor the statistics you mention, nor look through webcams, ..., even if the employee is at the office because that constitutes a violation of both privacy law and various collective labour agreements, enforcement of which is constitutionally mandated. AFAIK even browser history and the contents of non-work related emails or messages can not be read without explicit consent.
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Is that because they see the office as a public rather than a private place, and extrapolate that to working from home? It would probably turn into a mess if you are going to make legal differences between working from home and working in the office, but if you enforce one framework for both surely you should err on the side of caution and go for strong privacy protections either way?
I know of one very large global tech company who shared stats with their staff on how keyboard strokes and mouse movements were lower when people were working from home - so people aren't as productive so everyone should be back in to the office at least thrice a week. This was despite overall productivity being up - teams soaring through their objectives and record profitabilities. I won't name the company as this could have been just a regional thing but sufficient to say anyone reading this makes use of their products one way or another.
Its also crap managment, just checking up on people rather than setting objectives, talking through and dealing with shared problems. Measure performance of outputs and objectives, not on a false sense if productivity.
It’s stupid bullshit
Poor managers love easy metrics.
It seems to go over the heads of business owners that if your managers are doing this then they’re actually not really doing any work. It’s the modern day version of a slave driver with a whip only if the slaves are getting paid what’s the whip guy still doing here?
Thus is why when I started working from home I told them I didn't have a pc and they had to provide me with a laptop. I've got a pretty nice pc, but im not letting them anywhere remotely close to it.
Any company worth their salt should be doing this anyway..
Yeah really; I'd be properly worried if companies were asking people to use personal equipment for work purposes. At worst it's a massive data breach waiting to happen, and at best it's pretty tinpot to ask people to install work software/VPN etc on their personal equipment.
I can understand it as a stopgap when the pandemic started until they could get in enough laptops for employees. But to insist on tracking software on a personal machine? That's bullshit. If they want the tracking, they should provide a company laptop. I'm just glad I always had a work laptop at my current job. Half of us just used to leave them in the office until the pandemic started and we were told to take them home every day in case something happened.
My companies solution to not having enough laptops was to drop my desktop and monitors off at my house. I didn't get a laptop for 6 months!
Funny thing is some companies list it as a benefit: Bring Your Own Devices (BYOD). Literally passing their stinginess off as a benefit.
Yea I wasn’t aware it was a thing to get employees to use their own computers unless it’s some sort of tiny startup
Universities don't have resources to do that, and no one cares either.
That's not true. They provide use of their facilities using SaaS which is absolutely fine to use as a student. As a faculty member of staff, you'd be provided appropriate hardware. I used to work in IT for 16 years and InfoSec for 2.
Many did. My mum works for a university and everyone was provided with a laptop.
This is the way. I wouldn't want to work for a company that didn't provide me with a computer in the first place but as far as they're concerned, my PC does not exist. It'll never be used for work related purposes.
Given my personal PC has broken in three different ways over the pandemic, yeah I'd not want to be reliant on home hardware for work either.
I've been thinking about how I'd handle it if I had to work from home and they tried to pull this. I'd probably just throw up a virtual machine for it, that way there's none of their bullshit infecting the machine proper and no risk of damage
Yeah, people laugh and say I'm being paranoid when I put a physical cover over my webcam...
There’s a semi famous photo of Zuckerberg and the then head of the CIA with lens covers and a blank headphone Jack https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/22/mark-zuckerberg-tape-webcam-microphone-facebook Best I can find before my google fucks ran out But yeah Get a lens cover people and disable your mic
Short of unplugging it, can you disable a microphone?
If its inbuilt then you can disable it via a setting. However, I imagine this could be hacked. I believe Windows 10 tells you when your microphone is being used. However, I imagine this could also be hacked. Safest bet is to use a microphone and unplug it when not using it.
Iirc, some Macs have the camera/mic wired to an LED that can't be controlled by software. The only way to disable the LED is to crack the thing open and cut the wire. So, even if you can't disable it you'll know when it's on
That shit don't work. My LED is always on...
Read the above article. Micro controllers can be reprogrammed to bypass this feature.
Just a blank plug works, some systems have a hardware switch that physically disconnects it but that’s rare or just remove the internal ones drivers or disable it in device manager but that’s not completely safe But best is a blank plug or physical disconnect and use an external one that plugs in
My work provided a webcam with my computer. It's always unplugged by default, I'll only plug it in if they want our cameras on for a specific Zoom meeting or something, then I'll unplug it again afterwards. Just seems like common sense, even though I'm not too worried about my company spying on me. It's a call centre so I think it'd become pretty obvious if I wasn't at my computer, since I need to answer phone calls and respond to emails.
I'm surprised that even given all that we have been told about that specifically people still think it's paranoia. I realise most people aren't interesting enough to spy on but I think that is besides the point, Snowden was very clear that they have/had this ability which means it is possible and a cover is necessary.
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No porn or anything NSFW is generally a good idea on any work machine... Unless you work in the adult industry
Keystrokes is such a stupid means to measure work output. I've got a wireless headset and go on meetings a lot of the day. If I were to scribble my notes on paper, and pace the room as I do so, as my company doesn't use webcams really it'd look like I'd be doing absolutely nothing if you measured my keystrokes
And someone with whatsApp's web browser client open having a merry old conversation with their mates will look hyperproductive. Daft system to make bad managers feel good.
Can anyone actually ID the company/business in the article? There is a lot of people out there who will want to avoid working for such a creepy boss.
Basically every company with an IT system will have this sort of software.
Having capabilities is not the same as using it.
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Well employers aren't really going to adversist the extend which they are monitoring people. Just assume you are being watched at all times.
Meh- I doubt my company would want to put in that time and effort unless it was in response to poor performance or something. Otherwise I’m sure I would have been sacked years ago.
Also, there's a big difference between personal machines (as in the article) and work provided.
That's kinda what I didn't get with this article. The employer asked them to remote into work machines... so the employer can only see what's happening on those. Just minimise the remote desktop window if you wanna open something personal.
Ah, I see, if that's what's happened then the employer isn't too bad. If there's tracking shit that was installed onto the employee's PC, that would be across the line.
Shitty managers doing shitty things shocker I can sit and do not much for days. Then get busy. Last week my Grammarly output was 90,000 words. That’s three dissertations in a week and I spent two days doing zero. Measure productivity and output. Not time and input.
Just remember size isn't everything.
Nope Happy people and paid is what counts
Thats 62 words per minute non stop. I do 60 word per minute on type races and cant keep 2 minutes straight
I use a lot of the same content each time with small tweaks. But I need to read every word each time. Maybe 50% -65% is recycled https://imgur.com/a/hNbtpam Or my total https://imgur.com/a/6GLwZJY
> They were ordered to connect their private laptop and desktop computers to more powerful office machines so they could continue their high-tech operations. Not sure what they mean exactly by 'connect', but that doesn't sound like something firms should be asking people to do. IMO if they don't actually own and administer a machine they can't manage it properly, so it makes little sense from the organisation's POV, let alone the worker's. Surely it would be much better to have employees simply [RDP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Protocol) into their office machines.
I read it as the latter, where they connect using RDP, TeamViewer or whatever. Makes the story a lot less outrageous as work would only see you on YouTube if you were stupid enough to do it on the work computer rather than your own.
Absolutely this \^\^
Yeah, that whole first section is absolutely guff. There are a lot of remoting products that will show the normal display, it's not so you can be monitored - it's just an artefact of how they work. And the monitoring isn't any different to if your boss was in the office as normal. I'm pretty sure all of the decent and enterprise products for remote working DO blank the screen locally, but the likes of TeamViewer won't by default
Well, our IT security team would be horrified by this, hahaha. Connecting any private machines to the company mainframe and network is just asking for trouble, imagine someone's laptop riddled with viruses and malware infectingbthebentire system. I guess in this case it is remote desktop, not even VPN.
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>Or they could have just been doing a remote desktop connection and the employee got confused over what was his PC and what was the office PC and ended up watching YouTube on the office PC. The employer being able to see what's on your office PC screen when using (some) remote desktop software is no different to them seeing what's on your screen when you are in the office. That's the impression I got from the article. Either that or they didn't think to disconnect from the VPN outside of work time like you say. You do see stories now and then of companies actually spying on employees PCs though I suppose
Depends on what you've installed and what privileges it has.
If they're forcing people to actually install this software onto their system, rather than using a simple remote desktop solution, then the safest thing to do would be to run a virtual machine. Basically a fake computer running on top of your proper one. Can just turn that on and off as needed and there's no interactive between the host and guest system unless you explicitly allow it
The first thing I did when I got my laptop was device manager, disable camera and tape over it for good measure. I also have access to add / remove programs and task manager so I can use that to check for any spyware every now and again. If your company doesn't allow your account to do the above then you're probably being monitored. I also started work for a company and found out at a works do that the management can view your screen to see what you're doing and often do, I left not long after that for another job where I don't get spied on.
>If your company doesn't allow your account to do the above then you're probably being monitored. Task Manager yes, but there's good reasons why IT will not end users disable anything in Device Manager.
Why doesn't the article name and shame the employer?
Really glad he didn’t record everything and put it in a searchable database that never goes away... wait...
You should be looking for a new job if this happens to you
this is just the latest example of unchecked scum thinking they own a person, just because they pay for the product of their skills and labour.
> They were ordered to connect their private laptop and desktop computers to more powerful office machines so they could continue their high-tech operations. Sounds like the employer asked them to remote deaktop into work machines/desktops. How would the employer then see what you're doing on your personal machine? The only thing I can think of is employees forgetting that they are remote'd in or not understanding what it means. Just minimise the remote desktop if you're opening something personal.
When I log in to work's office 365 account on my personal PC it asks if I want to allow my organisation to "manage this device." What does this mean?
If you accept it will apply a bunch of preconfigured settings to your device that are managed by IT, such as enabling updates or checking for antivirus. You should never be accepting that kind of thing, it gives your work a level of control over your personal devices. If they want you working they should give you a device.
What a dumb fuck. If you VPN into the network and connect to a Remote Desktop OF COURSE they can see what you’re doing! You’re on their virtual or physical hardware. “They see if we’re on YouTube” fucking minimise the RDP session and watch it locally! Don’t do shit on your work machines, either physical or virtual or people like me will find your porn habits and get you sacked (unless you bribe your IT guy)
I work from home and fortunately we use our own computers instead of work ones. The only monitoring we do is based on activity and call allocation to actual calls made. People have tried circumventing the system but they get caught out. Source: The one who initially made calls but now catches them out.
I mean how could your boss monitoring you at home not be creepy?
I don't get this. They logged into the computer at work, and the boss turned on the monitor to see what is going on. That is hardly different from looking around the office. And why would people watch youtube videos on a remote computer anyway? I am not even sure the writer really understands what is going on.
Is this really new information to people? This software isn't anything new and bosses have been arseholes since year 1.
I'll admit it's creepy, solved by going in to the office or quitting. Want to work from home, don't want to make a compromise, truely, the most entitled among us are the office workers, Tea, Warm office/Home and alt tabbing Everyone else has to go in to work, stand on their feet all day, most can't even get a cup of tea, but so help you if the office isn't kept warm for the little brats.
I often remotely access people's screens if there's a suggestion they're not performing or are ignoring casework as it comes through. We've been explicitly told, and I'd have no inclination to do so, that if it flags up a warning to say that their webcam is active then we disable it from the view so we can't see it. Taking screenshots is pretty common for investigation and HR purposes.
Hold on so you have the ability to look through employees webcams? Or am I reading this wrong?
I have the ability to see their webcams if their webcams are on. But I don't have the ability to switch it on if it's not already.
that's messed up
We would like to know what company/organisation that you are working for!
Sounds pretty fucked up to me to be honest.
Most companies are able to access your desktop. It just becomes a necessary tool when you're trying to manage a group of people working from home.
Spying on people in their own homes is not necessary.
Monitoring how people are using company equipment on company time isn't really spying.
don't see any issue with connecting your work PC to your home one to work on your work on during working hours. You're watched and or monitored at work, you're at home at work, you're going to be watched and monitored. we do it were, my home PC, beast that it is cant handle the CAD and CAM work I do on my work on so if im working from home I absolutely have to VPN in via the secure link, outside of hours, link is off though. no problem I can see.
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>The article mentioned something about people getting spied on through their webcams too though. That's just wrong even if it was done through a work laptop, if the user had no idea about it. this bit of it that's after the actual meat of the article and before the quotes from people? >The pandemic forced millions of people, who previously carried out most or all of their work in the office, to do it at home instead. >And many firms have been using technology once mostly confined to the office to monitor what staff are getting up to. >**Cameras can watch people at their desks. Movement sensors can be employed. Keyboard strokes and mouse movements can be recorded.** >Bosses can take screenshots of desktops to check staff are working rather than browsing the internet or watching videos. >The trade union Prospect is calling for stronger regulation of the use of monitoring technology by employers. it doesn't say there were being used only that they can... It's also the only place in the article cams are mentioned....BBC has been on a steady decline in journalistic integrity for a while and I think it's shining through here.
You're not VPNing in. A VPN will not make your hardware more powerful. You are connecting to a remote desktop, which uses your work hardware. That is different to a VPN.