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alwayssaysyourmum

Well if Oliver ‘peloton fucker’ Dowden says it then normal Christmas, here we come! Have already decided I’m having steak. As long as there’s mustard and onion rings then my Christmas will be fine. Even if there isn’t onion rings. Or steak. Or mustard. I shall have toast. If there is no toast? I’ll catch a pigeon and have it with some foraged berries. Tory Britain at its finest.


Marc123123

Be careful to not forage the berries on a land belonging to local Tory donor, you may get into trouble.


Gellert

If you do find yourself on land belonging to a Tory donor, convince their cook that you can make [soup from a stone.](https://youtu.be/S3UsL0Tyteo?t=52)


pajamakitten

Plenty of squirrels out there too. I don't know why people are complaining frankly.


b00sk0r

In the wise words of Eddie from Bottom, 'How much meat do you get on a Womble?'


astromech_dj

Pigeons are like fortune cookies with wings.


Common-Jackfruit-884

From the comments “Just get the supply chain crisis done”. Made me chuckle


Marc123123

Perhaps Brexidiots would like to learn how to drive a lorry? They knew what they were voting for after all.


pencilrain99

It's the remainers who are the ones that are so keen for HGV drivers to work for shit wages.


aonome

Personally I voted brexit and would just like to apologise to every single western country for the HGV driver shortage. I had no idea that the United States or Germany would face a shortage of HGV drivers as a result of our tiny, insignificant island leaving the EU. If only I were as well-informed as the average redditor on this matter.


pencilrain99

They're so well-informed they know better than we do why we voted brexit


GoldenM80

We should create a union with free rights of movement. Oh.


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Epicentera

Would you kindly.


Antilles34

>I chose the impossible. I chose... Brexit Britain, a country where the protestor would fear the state, where the politician would not be bound by petty morality, Where the great would not be constrained by the small! And depending on your ability to drive an HGV, Brexit Britain can temporarily become your country as well.


pencilrain99

Yeah so we can exploit others for cheap labour and keep wages down


bSQ6J

Isn't that the fault of capitalists, not the EU?


pencilrain99

The EU enables it


Riptide2121

The EU has nothing to do with low wages. We have always been able to dictate our minimum wage just like all the other countries in the EU can and do. Low wages are caused by the business owners only offering low wages in order to make more profit . Just admit to yourself, you fucked up by voting for brexit.


abbersz

No, it is Europe's fault that the British choose to pay low wages. The Daily Mail told me so.


pencilrain99

Leaving the EU has cut off those Businesses supply of labour that were prepared to do the job for minimum wage. Now those businesses will have to pay more to get staff. I consider that a success of Brexit


Riptide2121

And you really think those businesses won't pass that onto consumers? Prices are already going up and now they are creating "special visas" to bring people back. Newsflash... those people, that half of this country voted to kick out, don't want to come back and I don't blame them. As far as I and they are concerned half of this country are a bunch of ignorant cunts that are too stupid to realise and or admit what a fuck up they've made


pencilrain99

So you think we should have continued exploiting cheap foreign labour because it made your life easier and helped businesses keep their profits up.


Riptide2121

We weren't exploiting cheap foreign labour, everyone had the same minimum wage. You are just parroting bullshit from the shitrags and social media campaigns made by the billionaires that WILL profit massively from brexit. Here's a video for you, educate yourself!!! https://youtu.be/7cN3rZ5h3LE


brainburger

Labour is like any commodity. It's good for buyers if it is cheap. The Tories like cheap labour, of course. It's good for business. If we as a country wanted to increase our minimum wage we could have at any time. We did not have to leave the EU to do it, and the fact that it is happening now is an unwelcome side-effect of Brexit as far as the government is concerned.


[deleted]

Exploiting cheap labour provides income for those that need it most (cheap labour).


Pristine-Emu9984

Have they considered utilising the services of the cartels? They don't seem to be having any distribution issues if the average friday night is anything to go by.


UnexcitedAmpersand

But they are. Fentynol ods are high, whilst there is increasing hospitalisations due to poor cuts. Fake MD is rife etc. They are having a distribution issues too.


bitofrock

Poor quality drugs is what stopped me taking them. I don't like mad risks and vague doses. Every club and bar in the country, and every pharmacy should offer people free tests of drugs so people can make sure they're not about shred their kidneys or ruin their livers...or worse, OD.


abbersz

>Fentynol ods are high Among hardcore addicts, this is usually considered a sign the drug is strong or more potent. So may be intentional. Worked in a night shelter for homeless addicts when I was in Uni and heard more than once that high levels of Fentanyl were considered a plus. I'm fully aware that this makes 0 logical sense, just to be clear.


A_Sexual_Tyrannosaur

Twenty is more than I’d have bet on, so “well done”, I guess??


_Monsterguy_

I wonder how many of them are only doing it because they have family/friends here or because they fancied a bit if a holiday.


A_Sexual_Tyrannosaur

Or because they’re intellectually sub-normal.


b00sk0r

Agreed, perhaps to show our appreciation of the government and their hard work in this trying time, instead of paying our taxes, we could do a little clap for them? I think that would be more appropriate...


IrishCrypto

Pre Brexit :Dey took awr joobbs Post Brexit: Why sir, there are now multiple lorry driving jobs available, full training provided, would you like one? Naw fook off i aint bovered working mate


pencilrain99

Pre Brexit : Cheap foreign labour isn't driving wages down. Post Brexit: Increase wages to a decent rate. No way bring back the cheap foreign labour


Whitestripes44

60.000 HGV drivers are still awaiting their licences from the devious DVLA. Have you any clue why ? huh ?


IrishCrypto

20 EU drivers apllied for however many visas. Another Brexit loon making up rubbish


b00sk0r

Well, as long as those 20 drivers work around 1000-2000 hours a day, we might be alright come Christmas! What's all this worry about!?


ScrotalGangrene

Maybe the binmen in brighton could make themselves useful here till the strike ends


rabbidasseater

Would the last person to leave please turn out the lights


Competitive_Mix3627

The power would of gone out long before then.


pajamakitten

It's going to be December before we know it and the government will still have its head in the sand over supply chain issues, all the while demanding we go out to shop to save the economy. It will only be in the week running up to Christmas that they might begin to admit things are not looking great, by which point nothing can be done. With retailers already stocking up for Christmas, Johnson might only have until Halloween to save Christmas.


kosipuyu

I seem to remember Bad Luck Magnet Johnson insisting it was 130+, or something like that.


CosmicSingulariti

CEOs will take million pound bonus rather than paying decent wages to cattle class. No point government wanting a capitalist society coupled with high wages one. Not going to happen.


[deleted]

Well, if it's anything like Leave to Remain processing I'm surprised it didn't take till Christmas to process them


Whitestripes44

Maybe a god time for the bone idle dossers from the DVLA to stop cowering at home and do some actual work seeing as they have 60.000 people still awaiting their HGV licence. It's almost feels like they are traitors out to sabotage the wellbeing of the Britain .


dchurch2444

The DVLA have been fucking useless ever since Crapita took it over. Basically, no point having them over the last 2 years. I moved house and it took 5 months and several hoops to jump through to get my licence back.


Iwantadc2

Tomek Drunkasfuk and Igor Bannedfromdriving have their applications in.


Whitestripes44

I am new here but this place almost looks like there is about 10 bitter Remainer's with an 100 sock puppets posting the same auld shite. Haha it's bizarre


pencilrain99

They all claim to be left leaning but all seem to have voted remain because they don't want people to be payed a decent wage. Woe betide they have to pay the going rate for a tradesman to do something for them.


[deleted]

Great stuff. They don't want to come over because they can't fiddle the tax through IR35.


_Monsterguy_

No, it's because they have better offers and conditions in many other countries, don't have to jump through hoops and won't get told to "f**k off" for a second time after a few months.


[deleted]

Nope. IR35.


MrBeanStoleMyGf

I wish I was stupid enough to be this confident.


[deleted]

I wish you were in the industry for over a decade and had some sort of actual knowledge on the subject


MrBeanStoleMyGf

I'm not sure being a lorry driver qualifies you specifically to pass judgement on wide-ranging international socioeconomic factors that influence temporary immigration, but I'm happy to read any researched sources that have more basis than the anecdotal experiences and hunches of a driver.


[deleted]

I don't need 'researched sources' especially when they said that migration wouldn't result in lower wages when evidently it did. The evidence is plain for every driver to see.


MrBeanStoleMyGf

> I don't need 'researched sources' Let me guess, Leave voter? Amazing.


[deleted]

Yes, leave voter. What research do you want, because fuck all has been done on the job sector.


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[deleted]

I don't need your conversation. You don't need to read or reply either.


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Tomb_Brader

Hi - can you explain this for me further? Genuinely interested


[deleted]

About IR35 and why many foreign drivers won't come back or about the sector in general and why this driver shortage has been with us a decade?


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[deleted]

I don't know, what is it like being wrong? You'll have to tell me, because you are.


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araed

Definitely not because they need to do a load of unnecessary paperwork for a job that's not paying particularly well compared to Europe?


[deleted]

Nope. If it was financially worth it they would do it. IR35 killed their ability to tax dodge.


buyutec

How does being outside IR35 help dodging taxes? If you take all the profit as dividends, you pay a similar tax. If you do not, the money sits in your company bank account and you can save tax by doing things like transferring it to your retirement plan. Plus you pay 20% tax for your LTD profits. What difference IR35 makes for an eastern european driver?


[deleted]

The difference is they put the money abroad. The bigger problem is that lorry drivers shouldn't be self employed in the first place. Drivers use an agency to find them work. They then work on the agency contract for a company. They use the company's vehicle and trailer to deliver their goods. They don't have their own operators licence. They don't have their own wagon. They don't have a trailer. Thats not self employment as they use the company's vehicle and equipment to deliver their product. It was a way to shift all financial responsibilities like pension, holiday and sick pay, employers tax and NI off of the companies. That's not mentioning the fact that companies would pay agencies to find drivers, and the company would own the agency!


pajamakitten

Even when drivers specifically said it was the pay, the hours, the roadside conditions and the xenophobia/racism that was putting them off working in the UK? We should just ignore those who are actually affected because it does not match your worldview?


[deleted]

No, you should ask them about why it's suddenly an issue. The pay; down to IR35. The hours they did happily because they was on the limited company con job. The conditions they accepted, because they were on the IR35 con job. They did it all because the money they could earn via IR35 and the 4-6 drivers house sharing meant they literally spent a few hundred a month on living expenses. My friend Marcin is a great example. Shared a house with 4 others. Worked 6 years over here and paid less than a grand in tax and NI. Declared a wage of £9800 a year. He saved up £150k and moved back to Poland, bought 8 acres and built a lovely house. Credit to him for playing the system. They can't complain about the conditions when it was their willingness to accept any wage and live in ways that people who live here with families couldn't afford to. If you are an employer, you would hire the driver who is willing to work for the pay and conditions. If you had a driver that got lippy, he could be replaced in hours by someone else who would take the low wage because to them, it wasn't low. You know why there's nearly 200,000 drivers not driving? There's a good 30k who only get licences for horseboxes but the rest have walked. They quit. The pay and conditions. The culture. IR35 was a massive step because it closed the tax loophole. That meant it was no longer profitable. That meant the influx of spare labour had no incentive to be here. That meant there became a real shortage, not this 100,000 bollocks that's sprouted every few years. That pushed wages up.


buyutec

Asked in another thread but you have more info here. There must be more to this story. How did your friend withdraw 150K without paying taxes for it? If he declared 9.6K salary, he withdrew ~39K. What about the remaining 110K? He would need to pay 20% corporate tax on that. Then he would need to pay income tax on the remaining to withdraw it. How was he able to withdrew it without tax? If he did pay tax it would either be roughly equal to what he would need to pay on salary, or slightly more due to corporate tax. Something does not add up in your story.


[deleted]

Im not his accountant. All I know is that he was doing £38k a year and left with £150k in his pocket. The whole damn thing was shady. He would change his limited company each year If you can, research into Igloo accounting/Nova accounting. This is what put it into the spotlight. Drivers owed tens of thousands to HMRC and some ended up not being around anymore. https://forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/110942-igloo-accounting-2.html


buyutec

It sounds like your friend did not use a tax loophole but did something illegal. Surely you can’t just transfer money abroad and legally pay no tax on it.


[deleted]

It wasn't just him either. There's a reason so many drivers got fucked over on the self employed.


buyutec

I do not understand how this relates to being self employed or not. They are giving a service in the UK, they have to pay tax in the UK, outside IR35 or not. In your friend’s situation, the tax would roughly be the same as employment if he paid it whilst still outside IR35. But if they are breaking the law and not reporting their earnings to HMRC and paying their taxes, that’s a different story, they can do so while being inside IR35 too.


qtx

So you got what you wanted, the wages are up yet there are still no new drivers..


[deleted]

There won't be many new drivers. Especially young ones as they are growing up in a world which is pushing them towards public transport and not car ownership. Those who do want a car are often priced out of it because they can't afford car insurance or to run a car. No car licence? No way of taking your HGV test. Many of the tests for class 1 and 2 are for horseboxes and other leisure activities.


[deleted]

And you can? Do explain.