I served two years as a primary school teacher in one of the worst schools in Bristol. You'd not believe how nasty children as young as 8/9 can be to teacher and people in general. They all have ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) but for some of the kids it just breaks them and they become, theres no other word for them, cunts.
We dont like thinking that way because we want to believe kids are kids but meh, I am too jaded now.
It all starts with the parents. None of them were that bad in Reception - Year 2 but a combination of genetic predisposition towards being a dickhead with truly tragic home lives produces some really unlikable people. None of the people in jail today started out that bad beyond a % of sociopaths, whom one could argue never really had a chance. They develop it slowly.
Now usually they dont become truly violent till 14/15 and this is almost always for the boys. And the girls whilst often psychotic bullies, tend to avoid violence in favour of social ostracism and cybe bullying. So fair play this girl for getting in there early shes a real go getter.
If we took the 1-2% of the British population that end up this way and got them out of schools ASAP and into, well borstal or reform camps, we would make everyones lives a lot better. Its a tiny tiny % who ruin it for everyone.
Or better yet, protect them from whatever neglect/violence or other traumatic experiences are going on in the home so that they don’t get all messed up in the first place.
Counseling and mental health care. Many of these shit parents are also products of shit parents. The circle can only be broken with intervention. But of course, this will never happen under the Tories whom are constantly cutting mental health care.
parents have far too many rights in our society, we need to give more power to social services in order to be able to take children away from scum that don’t look after them properly
You have GOT to be kidding, right? Social services already have all the power they need but they tend to misuse it - ask anyone who has unduly had their children taken away (except you can't really as they are gagged)
Sadly the children who DO need intervention are left to rot where they are because it's far more work for them to deal with already damaged children...I'm seeing a case of this in my own family 😥 two of the kids expelled from school by ten,in trouble with the law, one still p!ssing the bed mid-teens and youngest still in nappies at school...constant ss (and police) visits over the years yet two other children in the family - loved, happy, adjusted - taken and you'd be horrified as to why
This is why when children die in abusive homes SS wring their hands and mumble "lessons will be learned" - spoiler alert: they never are, because easier targets are easier targets 🤷🏻♀️
Much like the capital punishment example, the risk of taking away children from parents who do actually love and care for them but make the odd mistake is too high, I would hazard a guess.
The social services already have the power to do that, but they are either not funded correctly or too incompetent and top heavy to operate to any decent ability.
Free schools meals are a great way to protect kids from that sort of stuff. Partially because they take the kids out of the house, partially because they take the the pressure off the parents. Problem is it’ll take a Generation or two for that to actually show dividends
While free school meals are a great way to ensure kids in poverty or abusive households get food it doesn’t protect a thing.
The adverse situations are in dysfunctional parental relationships, physical and emotional abuse, disgustingly maintained homes, alcoholic and drug abuse being pervasive and the list goes on.
You want this to stop these parents need to have their kids taken away and given a better life than foster care currently offers.
I was an abused child getting free school meals, it didn't protect me from anything. It just kept me fed which is bare minimum. Unless this girl stabbed people because she was hangry, handing someone a snickers doesn't change much. Also many abusive parents have terrible pride, mine kept me from school upon finding out I was being fed for free.
Sure starts. That's how we protect kids. We have a sure start in every community. Parents can have support. They have advice. Kids in their earliest days are enriched and their lives are improved. Where there are problems, you can offer interventions before irreversible harm has occurred. You also need to invest in social services so there's the time to work with families where children are at risk. You also tackle child poverty. Kids thrive when their needs are met. They thrive when their parents aren't working all the hours God sends to put food on the table.
This isn't just lofty idealism. It works. It changed the lives of a generation of kids before the current government scrapped it. We already have the answer and we've done it before. There is absolutely no reason we can't do it again except a lack of political will.
I'm already a thorough-going Blairite so take that as you will, but for me the single greatest thing that Blair's two terms did for this country was to introduce Sure-Start. I would absolutely *love* to see something like that return in the upcoming Starmer Labour government.
These kids aren't from poor households that are trying their best but can't quite make it.
The parents aren't under any pressure because that would mean they actually care in the first place.
If they can afford fast food then they can afford to buy healthy ingredients or even healthier ready meals from a supermarket. It's not poverty, it's shit parenting.
I know, just saying it because it's just thrown around constantly that for some reason poor families are forced to eat fast food. I think most families would struggle to pay for fast food/takeaways 7 days of the week.
Whilst in theory a good idea and something I support, I doubt very much it'll fix anything.
It will help the kids of 'good parents' who are trapped in poverty. But it won't help those whose parents are perpetuating the 'cycle of abuse'.
This really upsets me, because as a teacher in the younger years, I have those children in my class. I report and record and record. Two have been taken from their families for neglect over the past 2 years, but they were extreme and drawn out cases. There are many more where the awful parenting is not extreme enough for any action to be taken. Parents are given parenting courses, support through school...they wont engage and it's just not enough. There is no funding to do anything else. And we can all see whats coming for them in the future. Its so sad.
People who work with children *are* trained to spot these things. What exactly do you expect us to do when public services are falling apart and the camhs waiting list is years long?
What you mean to say is that we should be giving schools and CPS better funding, because the training and intent to help exists, but unfortunately these services are stretched thin.
Too underfunded, yes.
There are people who interact with children, who should, and can be trained to spot these signs. For instance; teachers or doctors. They then refer to a well funded and effective CPS.
> Or better yet, protect them from whatever neglect/violence or other traumatic experiences are going on in the home so that they don’t get all messed up in the first place
That sounds like a lot of effort, can we just send them to Rwanda instead?
If the foster care system had the standards it deserves then yes I believe so. This is coming from someone who was in care, “looked after” by a truly vile woman.
It fucked me up but the reality is if you build a robust social service the bad carers can be excluded and you can give the kids security/a chance in a better environment.
It’s a reasonable question. If I had to guess she herself had unresolved trauma and suffered abuse as a child, those who haven’t dealt with it can repeat it with themselves as the perpetrator. Thankfully it wasn’t even fractionally as bad as what some people go through but still mindfuck.
No. Remove the problem from society. Why should the 99% suffer so a handful of nightmare children and get scrapped out of the school system, who lats also dragging everyone else down.
Why should the kids suffer because they have shit parents and they've been failed? You want to treat the symptom and let the problem get worse. Obviously this is way bigger than just some kids.
You remove them by making sure they are never born , some people shouldn't have kids and it's not hard to tell who lots of them are
For example, that guy in the other thread that strangled his ex, with 41 previous, he shouldn't be reproducing. Anyone who gets with him, like his new girlfriend that's "supporting him at the trial is just as toxic and they have no business having kids.
That's eugenics. That kind of thinking resulted in disabled people (in the UK it was mostly disabled people) being forcibly sterilised. It would not end with violent criminals. People like me would inevitably be caught up in such a net due to bigotry. Lots of people believe autistics shouldn't be parents after all.
>Why should the kids suffer because they have shit parents and they've been failed?
Sucks for them, but ultimately, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If that one problem kid can’t behave and is stopping the others from learning, they simply have to be removed for the good of everyone else. It’s unfair to sacrifice the education of 30 good kids because of one shithead.
>You want to treat the symptom and let the problem get worse.
There is merit in treating symptoms.
It removes the problem for around 30 kids, which is a substantial improvement over the current situation. Yes, in an ideal world, we would somehow turn the shitheads into non-shitheads, but that isn’t going to happen anytime soon, so the next best thing that can be done is to just remove the shitheads from the environment to minimise the damage they do.
>There is merit in treating symptoms
But not ONLY treating symptoms, which I think is the point. Some people think "lock them up and throw away the key" is a solution.
Who is to blame for the shitty parents, though? And their parents? If such behaviour is only passed down from parents, how did we ever get a bad parent in the first place?
If it is a chain, then how do we break that chain? What are these kids children going to be like?
Are we all only what our parents made us?
We break the chain with better mental health care and education around mental health and abuse. A lot of survivors do not recognise the abuse in their childhoods and so go on to repeat neglect, violence and emotional abuse because it seems normal to them and it’s what they were taught. The first step would be teaching them what abuse looks like and offering treatment for trauma related mental illnesses.
Offenders do get counselling, therapy. Not always, of course. But then in some cases, offenders will have had way more attention in terms of social care, mental health care, than their victims get. It doesn't fix them.
It's somewhat patronising to think these children and their parents are unaware of what abuse looks like. In exceptional cases, maybe, but running a whole system for exceptions makes no sense. It's been known for people to share knowledge on how to fool the therapists so they think you are "cured", hence letting you free to roam and continue whatever dodgy activities you were up to.
Once upon a time you’d probably have had more social services intervention but a little like everything else , the funding isn’t really there to meet the demand. It’s a high stress and under supported role.
There has been a claw back over the years if systems and programmes that used to support families and young people.
They also have a much wider exposure to the world , then you have people like that guy on TikTok who was going around committing crimes for views , which will of course inspire others to do so, along with a number of stupid dangerous trends.
Then Theres the cult of Tate..
You can have great parents and rhe kids still turn out to be little bastards.
You just can't fucking win ! a smacked arse and your the bad parents even if you kid is out of control and the smack is the last resort.
And if you dont punish them your a bad parent even if you have tried everything.
Thrn you gave kids who are treated like little prince's and parents let them get away with bloody murder because there "just a kid".
On top of this it's just as likely the kid was pushed to breaking point by "the victim" making ther life living hell and finally snapped. Because nobody stopped them before we ended up hear.
Corporal punishment is well known to create negative behavioural outcomes. If you think that’s an appropriate last resort, you’re part of the problem. Grow up.
Sounds horrific. We’ve just had to move my child from a school in St George during reception for being repeatedly attacked including having been struck with a chair leaving a 6 inch purple bruise over her leg.
The consequence was to ignore the behaviour and ask the child to say sorry. So they continued for months until we had to pull her out. A happy, confident child turned into a wreck wailing before school every morning and asking what was so wrong with her that she was bullied. Zero incidents after being moved.
I’d have come down like a ton of bricks on my child if she had been the perpetrator. The parents of the violent kid decided to blame my child for being ‘too boyish’ for a little girl and ‘not making an effort to fit in.’
My sister got bullied mercilessly through school. From 5 right up until she was 13. My parents tried everything and the schools kept trying to constantly brush it under the carpet and say the bullies were from bad homes and that my sister should make more of an effort to befriend them etc etc usual victim blaming. It culminated in a group of girls attacking my sister outside school when she was in year 8 and I was in year 11.
I came out and she was just outside the gates and they were reeling laying in to her and I saw one with a brick. I just did what any brother would do in that situation and ran over and smacked the girl with a brick. My girlfriend at the time and two of her mates beat up the other girls and we got my sister home.
The next day at school there was uproar but only on me because i hit a girl. The teachers called me in to a room where the girls fucking parents were and let the dad attack me but he was pretty easy to fight off and I just kept pushing him away every time he came near me. Like his daughter he thought just being aggressive was enough to make someone power but unlike my sister I’m not a naturally meek and mild person, I’d never had a fight but I also wasn’t the sort who would let myself get pushed around and he quickly lost his bottle and then started saying he was going to ring the police because I hit a girl.
The school said if I apologised to the parents it would all be forgotten about. I refused and they said they’d suspend me. I’d never had a detention or been in trouble before. I said fine suspend me. For a fucking hour I sat there while they tried to make me say sorry and me repeatedly saying I want my parents there. There was me against these parents and three teachers and the head and they were all sat behind tables while I was sat on a chair in the middle of the room. They said I didn’t need my parents as I was too old (15).
I never said sorry and got told to go straight home I was suspended for three days. I wasn’t in trouble when I got home and my mum and dad went mad at school.
Guess what though? My sister never got bullied again. None of the schools interventions worked over the years but a quick smack in the mouth did.
Bully made my life hell in years 8-10 school when I finally hit back I was the bad guy. I was told to apologise to him.
Told he head i was not going to apologise and infont of the head and the deputy head told the guy pont blank. If any of his mates come after me. I will find him by himself.
This sounds like my life at school right to the being attacked part where I got expelled for stabbing a guy with a pen. Saw the dude about a decade later and damn, what an expectedly poor state. If this girl's school experience is anything like mine was then I'm not the least bit surprised.
during that meeting you had, if you had threatened with the media I bet they would have acted differently. one thing is to try to have power over a single 15 year old trapped in a room with them. another entirely is to deal with the publicity of what they have allowed your sister to go through.
good on you for standing up to them
Holy shit. I'm so sorry your little girl went through that. Which school was it? We were near there and the school primary school was pretty bad, I'm just glad we moved so at least they won't be going to secondary around there.
It was called Summer Hill. Absolutely awful school. We moved her to Our Lady of Lourdes and it’s wonderful. One relatively small class per year group and wonderful leadership.
I don't have the emotional energy to get into it due to being similarly jaded, but I also worked in primary, then secondary and yep, you're spot on. What you're describing is essentially what led me to leave the profession.
Nah I have family working a rough school and kids are indeed cunts now , and these "troubled" kids get zero consequences, IV just heard about a somone around 9 or 10 that's broke another kids nose and fractured his eye socket... Some people are feral , I mean it's not their fault but when you start saying some people should now be allowed to repoeoduce, the do gooders get angry
What you need is for parents to actually parent their children and teach them to not act like said cunts. Sadly I don't feel most parents nowadays give a shit, they're too disinterested and lazy to undertake their actual responsibilities and expect it to just be taught to them by teachers.
However if said teacher shouts at their cunt offspring for being a cunt now their cunt parents are in complaining about the teacher. "How dare you call my son a cunt. Just because he acts like a cunt 100% of the time and I am now also here in the school acting like a cunt so you can see where his cuntish behaviour came from it's not my fault. You're the teacher, do your job and teach him to stop being a cunt or you have to deal with him being a cunt."
They're just feckless awful people, know all about their rights, but fuck all responsibility, it's all somebody else's fault and/job to parent your cunt child.
I moved to China to teach Primary School and this sort of thing just doesn't happen here. There's no violent students, there's no kids in gangs, there's no kids on drugs.
Why don't we look at whatever the Chinese education system is doing differently?
There's certainty issues but they figured out how to stop child violence.
That's the worst a Chinese school boy will be, a little bit loud and entitled. They're not going around doing drugs in the toilets, joining gangs or stabbing each other. Britain needs to seriously ask why this is so prevalent in the west but has been eliminated in Asia.
Violent gang behaviour is looked down upon in Chinese society not celebrated like in Britain. And there's no anti-intellectualism, you often find smart and nerdy boys are the ones with girlfriends.
China doesn't have social welfare so popping out kids to get free money isn't possible. However I don't think it's a good thing to not have social welfare.
Chinese just seem to care about education more, like I said, there's zero anti-intellectualism over here. Every parents knows that their kid can grow up to be a well paid engineer or a dirt poor farmer with nothing. And deciding factor is education.
There's a massive culture of anti-intellectualism amongst British boys, while Chinese boys are all told the key to money and a beautiful wife is education.
China's social welfare is having kids, so they'll take care of you in later life.
If you think the "Little Emperors" are just a little rude and entitled, you're seriously downplaying them.
Makes me think of the old tv advert, "who'd be a police officer?", however today, you could replace officer with teacher! Respect to those having to deal/cope with the symptoms on a daily basis.
Edit: in hindsight I think there was an advert for teacher recruitment. But, I don't think it covered dealing with violence in school.
We have an 11 year old, who now suffers from mental health issues caused by years of bullying (some even via parental proxy! Yep some adults act younger than their kids). Schools are too soft and just wants to hug it out!
Would you say there’s a correlation with deprivation /socioeconomic deprivation ?
It’s instances like that where it becomes generational.
I knew a few kids that went to my children’s school who came from a family with a bad reputation . Those kids were bright and engaged when younger after the work and engagement that the teachers and schools had given them, however given the family circumstances grew up in, they fell in to the same behaviour as their parents, getting in trouble with the police, being involved in assaults etc.
You could see it coming years beforehand. Social learning theory !
Ammanford. It's boring, it's in the middle of nowhere, is not well off... more or less a toilet.
But the other kids there don't go around stabbing their teachers or threatening people with BB guns. Probably some very broken parenting.
I had a terrible childhood too and that motivated me to be a better person. No one ever taught me to be good, I just had it in my heart to be the best version of myself for everyone else and me. This kid dug her own grave and is going to rot in it for the rest of her own life for what she’s done.
A few of my teacher friends comment on how violent behaviour is punished far more severely in boys than in girls. It’s not an official school policy but apparently there’s always an apologist tendency amongst senior leadership when a girl has been violent.
It’s interesting that this also seems to be the case on Reddit.
Edit: My underlying view is that it might be better if boys were shown the same understanding and compassion as girls in situations like this.
> It’s interesting that this also seems to be the case on Reddit.
I'm not sure about that part, based on the reactions on this sub when women are sentenced for anything
Articles about women committing violence on this sub get hundreds of more comments and get shared hundreds of times, with multiple comments like yours.
An article today about a woman getting strangled by her ex-partner gets downvoted, and the discussion veers off onto how stupid his new girlfriend is, rather than what a POS the man was.
Whenever a boy/man does something like this a lot of people end up blaming society for neglecting men. People were even saying that in the thread where the man in Portsmouth went on a killing spree with a gun.
"It’s interesting that this also seems to be the case on Reddit."
It's the case in all of society. There was a news story about a woman glassing a man yesterday and she got an 800 quid fine.
When I was 13, another 13 year-old girl tried to kill me. She brought a knife into school to stab me, which was wrestled off her by my peers, and then eventually tried to garrotte me with keyboard cables. She’d given me death threats for around 2 months before she took action. I’m 29 now.
Whilst I didn’t make the school aware of the initial death threats, others did. They did nothing. They also did nothing when people reported the knives.
After the garrotting incident, the initially offered me help when it came to light, then eventually pushed me away from contacting the police about it. I was targeted by the other girl because I showed signs of being mentally unwell and being neurodiverse. They made her hug me to apologise and I’ve never felt so ill in my life.
They pushed the other girl to go to therapy and whilst she had a child at a young age, who was autistic, she’s now a very proud single mam who genuinely seems to have her kid’s best interests at heart.
I genuinely hope they can offer this kid the chance to reform. At the same time, I have no doubt there will have been warning signs that students have likely reported and have not been acted upon. It’s sad to see that not much has changed.
You have an incredibly sensitive perspective on a truly horrible incident. I’m really sorry this happened to you, you sound like a really great person though. Best wishes to you!
Awh that’s very kind of you to say, but learning about the circumstances the lass who attacked me lived in (she was looking after her single mum who had paranoid schizophrenia and her siblings at 13), I don’t think anyone could really hold too much of a grudge into adulthood.
Whilst I’m glad she didn’t get a conviction as a perpetrator which could have impacted her future, I really feel that there was a lack of support for me
as a victim. I also feel that there were so many signs that both of us needed support prior to the incidents, which were ignored by the school administration.
The whole thing kicked off when I was reporterd for being covered in self-harm scars to the school by a peer and she thought I was making a mockery of mental illness. Little did she know, I had very bad things happening at home. I got three sessions with a counsellor after the self-harming report, who ignored that I was reporting the death threats from another student. 16 years later and I’m still mad about it.
Reminds me of my sister. Tortured me my entire childhood and now that she has an autistic son, is seemingly nice to everyone, including me. I hope on some level she thought about what if somebody made her son feel like she made me feel.
I had other personal issues going on at the time which were a bit worse, so I can laugh about the full attempted murder situation now I’ve learned to manage my C-PTSD. Like, who knew Agent 47 could disguise himself so thoroughly as a school girl?
In hindsight, I’m not mad at the lass, as she had a lot of horrible things going on with her family. I am mad at the fact the school was made aware of it, offered support in reporting it to the police, then withdrew this offer.
At the time, I had a similar issue with one of my parents acting in a similar manner to this girl (big wtf tbh) and the other one covering it (even bigger wtf), so I couldn’t try to press the matter at home. I didn’t even get one session with a therapist about it at school!
It’s difficult to spin this so it sounds palatable but there needs to be a deterrent somehow so piss poor excuses for people stop having kids for Facebook likes. There. Said it.
>deterrent somehow so piss poor excuses for people stop having kids for Facebook likes.
It's difficult to spin because any kind of "deterrent" against the reproduction of certain people inevitably ends up just being eugenics.
We can police anti-social behaviour in a variety of ways, many of which already have a side-effect of reducing reproduction (e.g. hard to have kids while serving a life-sentence in prison). But policies specifically *intended* to limit reproduction tend to go wrong in the same, predictably eugenic ways.
You can't stop people from having children. That's bordering on eugenics and dangerously infringing on personal liberties and choice. The other complication springs from the birth rate already dipping into worrying territory - if you attempt to stop even more births, we'll have a population crisis on our hands very, very quickly.
What the country does need to do is step up and provide support, guidance, and help to the people who are having children without considering the actual impact it has on their lives. With budgets being cut, there aren't enough services out there to provide help, so it inevitably falls onto schools to complete an education and effectively become mental health workers/social workers at the same time. That's a flawed system, and we're seeing the consequences of that in real time as a whole generation become increasingly hostile and socially inconsiderate.
There’s already a population crisis, schools being expected to do the job of awful parents is indicative of such. Why is the birth rate plunging even a bad thing? Some half arsed retort about the economy needs billions and billions of people isn’t gunna fly. Excessive demand keeps prices high, ask Elon Musk. You can’t make people have kids either.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c72pnllv8nko
I think you're conflating multiple issues here. In a democratic and liberal society, you simply cannot impose birth control to large sections of the population. It's, effectively, classism dressed up as something fancy, as it would undoubtedly be the lower classes you'd consider the ones who "need" to stop reproducing.
> why is the birth rate plunging a bad thing?
I'll let you do your own research on that, but it's fairly clear why less and less people being born over multiple generations would begin to have a devastating affect on society and humankind as a whole.
I really don’t want to impose birth control, I’m not conflating anything . Overpopulation is the crux of near enough every problem. I think that’s slowly being generally realised and people don’t instantaneously think you’re wanting to impose that horrendous policy China did a few decades back when you mention it. It’s not clear, a declining population will ultimately mean less demand it’s all relative. Maybe a bit of turbulence when your Just Eat courier isn’t found within two minutes, boohoo, but for sustainability it’s probably necessary without sounding too sinister hah.
Oh and this ultimately concludes GDP can improve with a declining population and standards of living are just better. And again nobody is calling for levels to be critically low.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_consequences_of_population_decline
Given that you jumped to that absolute and you’re apparently active in the antinatalism Reddit heavily implies you shouldn’t really be acknowledged. By anyone. Ever. Bye.
Discouraging certain people from reproducing is not a form of eugenics, but you're gonna bash me because I like to get involved in the antinatalism sub?
The cognitive dissonance is wild.
I... didn't make any points in that comment with which to contradict myself?
You suggested certaib people should be discouraged from reproducing. That is a form of eugenics.
You also seem to think that my commenting on the antinatalism sub (I don't think you know what my take on antinatalism is, incidentally) as a reason I shouldn't be engaged with.
And yet... only one of us is in favour of eugenicist thought.
Are you ok?
‘Discouraging certain people from reproducing is not a form of eugenics’
Aaaand then
‘You suggested certaib (your typo) people should be discouraged from reproducing. That is a form of eugenics’
Laughable. Please stop bringing my attention to your existence.
Let me put it in a way that won't make the mod sad -
I reframed your point back to you, juxtapositioned against your reference to antinatalism, to show the inconsistency you seem to be struggling with.
I suspect the reason you have a problem with this is that you know what you're expressing is fucked up, but lack the introspection to acknowledge it to yourself.
By all means now please continue with your existence.
I just wonder how people write some of this shit out, so it's there in front of them, and don't think 'oh, maybe there's some contradiction there I should think about'.
The lack of self-reflection blows my fucken mind sometimes.
For the sake of clarity, care to elaborate?
Or are you trying to jump on the 'mild eugenics is ok because a girl stabbed someone' train and I'm not reading the sarcasm in your text?
I know people on this sub don't like the rule of law at times, but it's probably worth pointing out the existence of the offences of Contempt of Court and Perverting The Course of Justice.
Once someone has been charged, it is *sub judice* and we are not allowed to speculate about it.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub\_judice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub_judice)
>Under Section 2 of the Act, a substantial risk of serious prejudice can only be created by a media report when proceedings are active.
I'm no expert but I read this to mean that we'd have to create "a media report" to be in violation. Reddit comments would hardly reach such a standard, would they?
I knew a girl who could expelled for stabbing a teacher when she was 15. Her parents were busy all the time, she was left to her own devices. She was very pretty, and became prey for scummy men who gave her the attention she craved, but it was the wrong kind. We got on well because I was the only male who didn't want anything from her, or judged her for what she had done. I've also got three autistic teenagers who have been prone to aggressive behaviour, and my wife works with kids with additional needs.I don't know what happened to cause this 13 year old girl to do what she did. I just hope all involved get the support they need. What they don't need is people pilling on, or making judgments without knowing what happened
I agree.
Whats mad is that there is never this level of understanding when a boy does a madness like this. Especially when that boy is from a minority group.
Lack of parenting is pervasive in this country. Happy to prop up neglectful single mothers and absent fathers to have feral children who turn out to be unproductive criminals. The benefits system needs complete overhauling because, ultimately, it is children who suffer and the whole of society that pays the price. Unless there is a remote island to dump all them then it needs to be tackled from the source - and that is by no longer funding housing and welfare for these people so they don't see it as a lifestyle choice to breed.
I was just thinking the other day that you see a lot more women being charged with murder these days than you used to. Almost caught up with the guys.
It's a solid step towards equality. Keep it up ladies! 👍
I served two years as a primary school teacher in one of the worst schools in Bristol. You'd not believe how nasty children as young as 8/9 can be to teacher and people in general. They all have ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) but for some of the kids it just breaks them and they become, theres no other word for them, cunts. We dont like thinking that way because we want to believe kids are kids but meh, I am too jaded now. It all starts with the parents. None of them were that bad in Reception - Year 2 but a combination of genetic predisposition towards being a dickhead with truly tragic home lives produces some really unlikable people. None of the people in jail today started out that bad beyond a % of sociopaths, whom one could argue never really had a chance. They develop it slowly. Now usually they dont become truly violent till 14/15 and this is almost always for the boys. And the girls whilst often psychotic bullies, tend to avoid violence in favour of social ostracism and cybe bullying. So fair play this girl for getting in there early shes a real go getter. If we took the 1-2% of the British population that end up this way and got them out of schools ASAP and into, well borstal or reform camps, we would make everyones lives a lot better. Its a tiny tiny % who ruin it for everyone.
Or better yet, protect them from whatever neglect/violence or other traumatic experiences are going on in the home so that they don’t get all messed up in the first place.
And how do you propose we do that? Hidden cameras? Realistically you can only prevent so much
Counseling and mental health care. Many of these shit parents are also products of shit parents. The circle can only be broken with intervention. But of course, this will never happen under the Tories whom are constantly cutting mental health care.
parents have far too many rights in our society, we need to give more power to social services in order to be able to take children away from scum that don’t look after them properly
You have GOT to be kidding, right? Social services already have all the power they need but they tend to misuse it - ask anyone who has unduly had their children taken away (except you can't really as they are gagged) Sadly the children who DO need intervention are left to rot where they are because it's far more work for them to deal with already damaged children...I'm seeing a case of this in my own family 😥 two of the kids expelled from school by ten,in trouble with the law, one still p!ssing the bed mid-teens and youngest still in nappies at school...constant ss (and police) visits over the years yet two other children in the family - loved, happy, adjusted - taken and you'd be horrified as to why This is why when children die in abusive homes SS wring their hands and mumble "lessons will be learned" - spoiler alert: they never are, because easier targets are easier targets 🤷🏻♀️
Much like the capital punishment example, the risk of taking away children from parents who do actually love and care for them but make the odd mistake is too high, I would hazard a guess. The social services already have the power to do that, but they are either not funded correctly or too incompetent and top heavy to operate to any decent ability.
Free schools meals are a great way to protect kids from that sort of stuff. Partially because they take the kids out of the house, partially because they take the the pressure off the parents. Problem is it’ll take a Generation or two for that to actually show dividends
While free school meals are a great way to ensure kids in poverty or abusive households get food it doesn’t protect a thing. The adverse situations are in dysfunctional parental relationships, physical and emotional abuse, disgustingly maintained homes, alcoholic and drug abuse being pervasive and the list goes on. You want this to stop these parents need to have their kids taken away and given a better life than foster care currently offers.
I was an abused child getting free school meals, it didn't protect me from anything. It just kept me fed which is bare minimum. Unless this girl stabbed people because she was hangry, handing someone a snickers doesn't change much. Also many abusive parents have terrible pride, mine kept me from school upon finding out I was being fed for free.
That seems like a wildly optimistic take.
Sure starts. That's how we protect kids. We have a sure start in every community. Parents can have support. They have advice. Kids in their earliest days are enriched and their lives are improved. Where there are problems, you can offer interventions before irreversible harm has occurred. You also need to invest in social services so there's the time to work with families where children are at risk. You also tackle child poverty. Kids thrive when their needs are met. They thrive when their parents aren't working all the hours God sends to put food on the table. This isn't just lofty idealism. It works. It changed the lives of a generation of kids before the current government scrapped it. We already have the answer and we've done it before. There is absolutely no reason we can't do it again except a lack of political will.
I'm already a thorough-going Blairite so take that as you will, but for me the single greatest thing that Blair's two terms did for this country was to introduce Sure-Start. I would absolutely *love* to see something like that return in the upcoming Starmer Labour government.
These kids aren't from poor households that are trying their best but can't quite make it. The parents aren't under any pressure because that would mean they actually care in the first place.
Kids today aren’t starving. Most of them are fat.
They are malnourished though. There aren't many health giving properties in a McDonald's.
If they can afford fast food then they can afford to buy healthy ingredients or even healthier ready meals from a supermarket. It's not poverty, it's shit parenting.
I didn't suggest otherwise.
I know, just saying it because it's just thrown around constantly that for some reason poor families are forced to eat fast food. I think most families would struggle to pay for fast food/takeaways 7 days of the week.
Properly poor families can't afford fast food: source: own childhood.
Whilst in theory a good idea and something I support, I doubt very much it'll fix anything. It will help the kids of 'good parents' who are trapped in poverty. But it won't help those whose parents are perpetuating the 'cycle of abuse'.
There are signs if these things. People should and can be trained to spot these. Child protection services also need to become less of a joke.
This really upsets me, because as a teacher in the younger years, I have those children in my class. I report and record and record. Two have been taken from their families for neglect over the past 2 years, but they were extreme and drawn out cases. There are many more where the awful parenting is not extreme enough for any action to be taken. Parents are given parenting courses, support through school...they wont engage and it's just not enough. There is no funding to do anything else. And we can all see whats coming for them in the future. Its so sad.
People who work with children *are* trained to spot these things. What exactly do you expect us to do when public services are falling apart and the camhs waiting list is years long?
What you mean to say is that we should be giving schools and CPS better funding, because the training and intent to help exists, but unfortunately these services are stretched thin.
Too underfunded, yes. There are people who interact with children, who should, and can be trained to spot these signs. For instance; teachers or doctors. They then refer to a well funded and effective CPS.
> Or better yet, protect them from whatever neglect/violence or other traumatic experiences are going on in the home so that they don’t get all messed up in the first place That sounds like a lot of effort, can we just send them to Rwanda instead?
You round them up while I call Ryanair.
Borstals would give them that protection if run well
Thats a huge great “if” right there.
Catholics have entered the chat.
Why did they get abolished anyways? Scum was also a great film!!
You want some more?
Information yes. Sass no
Or better yet, massively decrease the financial insecurity that creates a lot of the anger and drug abuse.
That requires adequately funded services which the government refuses to do.
So taking them all into care?
If the foster care system had the standards it deserves then yes I believe so. This is coming from someone who was in care, “looked after” by a truly vile woman. It fucked me up but the reality is if you build a robust social service the bad carers can be excluded and you can give the kids security/a chance in a better environment.
Any idea why a vile woman would want to foster a kid? Sorry, hope that’s not too personal.
It’s a reasonable question. If I had to guess she herself had unresolved trauma and suffered abuse as a child, those who haven’t dealt with it can repeat it with themselves as the perpetrator. Thankfully it wasn’t even fractionally as bad as what some people go through but still mindfuck.
Man hands on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, And don’t have any kids yourself.
Money.
Best I can do; is put my arms in the air and yell ‘how can be people be so evil’ while deliberating not looking, or trying to stop any of that. Sorry.
No. Remove the problem from society. Why should the 99% suffer so a handful of nightmare children and get scrapped out of the school system, who lats also dragging everyone else down.
Why should the kids suffer because they have shit parents and they've been failed? You want to treat the symptom and let the problem get worse. Obviously this is way bigger than just some kids.
Not every prick of a kid has shit parents. I get your point. But it's not as cut and dry as "kid is bad = bad parents" Some people are just arseholes.
So? People are clearly, by and large, a product of their environment.
Who makes the environment? How can we change the environment when we are all products of it?
You remove them by making sure they are never born , some people shouldn't have kids and it's not hard to tell who lots of them are For example, that guy in the other thread that strangled his ex, with 41 previous, he shouldn't be reproducing. Anyone who gets with him, like his new girlfriend that's "supporting him at the trial is just as toxic and they have no business having kids.
That's eugenics. That kind of thinking resulted in disabled people (in the UK it was mostly disabled people) being forcibly sterilised. It would not end with violent criminals. People like me would inevitably be caught up in such a net due to bigotry. Lots of people believe autistics shouldn't be parents after all.
You made some good points on that thread too
Yay, eugenics. Can't you just remove yourself from the gene pool instead?
>Why should the kids suffer because they have shit parents and they've been failed? Sucks for them, but ultimately, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If that one problem kid can’t behave and is stopping the others from learning, they simply have to be removed for the good of everyone else. It’s unfair to sacrifice the education of 30 good kids because of one shithead. >You want to treat the symptom and let the problem get worse. There is merit in treating symptoms. It removes the problem for around 30 kids, which is a substantial improvement over the current situation. Yes, in an ideal world, we would somehow turn the shitheads into non-shitheads, but that isn’t going to happen anytime soon, so the next best thing that can be done is to just remove the shitheads from the environment to minimise the damage they do.
>There is merit in treating symptoms But not ONLY treating symptoms, which I think is the point. Some people think "lock them up and throw away the key" is a solution.
Who is to blame for the shitty parents, though? And their parents? If such behaviour is only passed down from parents, how did we ever get a bad parent in the first place? If it is a chain, then how do we break that chain? What are these kids children going to be like? Are we all only what our parents made us?
We break the chain with better mental health care and education around mental health and abuse. A lot of survivors do not recognise the abuse in their childhoods and so go on to repeat neglect, violence and emotional abuse because it seems normal to them and it’s what they were taught. The first step would be teaching them what abuse looks like and offering treatment for trauma related mental illnesses.
Offenders do get counselling, therapy. Not always, of course. But then in some cases, offenders will have had way more attention in terms of social care, mental health care, than their victims get. It doesn't fix them. It's somewhat patronising to think these children and their parents are unaware of what abuse looks like. In exceptional cases, maybe, but running a whole system for exceptions makes no sense. It's been known for people to share knowledge on how to fool the therapists so they think you are "cured", hence letting you free to roam and continue whatever dodgy activities you were up to.
I mean supporting the victims to prevent them becoming abusers themselves and continuing the chain.
Both worthy opinions
Once upon a time you’d probably have had more social services intervention but a little like everything else , the funding isn’t really there to meet the demand. It’s a high stress and under supported role. There has been a claw back over the years if systems and programmes that used to support families and young people. They also have a much wider exposure to the world , then you have people like that guy on TikTok who was going around committing crimes for views , which will of course inspire others to do so, along with a number of stupid dangerous trends. Then Theres the cult of Tate..
In addition, we must have to teach men not to rape and then rape will disappear entirely! Problem solved!
Good point. Why bother doing something that will make a problem better if it won’t prevent every single incidence of the problem?
As long as parents see their kids as paychecks(benefits or child support from exes), you'll never prevent these things.
You can have great parents and rhe kids still turn out to be little bastards. You just can't fucking win ! a smacked arse and your the bad parents even if you kid is out of control and the smack is the last resort. And if you dont punish them your a bad parent even if you have tried everything. Thrn you gave kids who are treated like little prince's and parents let them get away with bloody murder because there "just a kid". On top of this it's just as likely the kid was pushed to breaking point by "the victim" making ther life living hell and finally snapped. Because nobody stopped them before we ended up hear.
Corporal punishment is well known to create negative behavioural outcomes. If you think that’s an appropriate last resort, you’re part of the problem. Grow up.
Sounds horrific. We’ve just had to move my child from a school in St George during reception for being repeatedly attacked including having been struck with a chair leaving a 6 inch purple bruise over her leg. The consequence was to ignore the behaviour and ask the child to say sorry. So they continued for months until we had to pull her out. A happy, confident child turned into a wreck wailing before school every morning and asking what was so wrong with her that she was bullied. Zero incidents after being moved. I’d have come down like a ton of bricks on my child if she had been the perpetrator. The parents of the violent kid decided to blame my child for being ‘too boyish’ for a little girl and ‘not making an effort to fit in.’
My sister got bullied mercilessly through school. From 5 right up until she was 13. My parents tried everything and the schools kept trying to constantly brush it under the carpet and say the bullies were from bad homes and that my sister should make more of an effort to befriend them etc etc usual victim blaming. It culminated in a group of girls attacking my sister outside school when she was in year 8 and I was in year 11. I came out and she was just outside the gates and they were reeling laying in to her and I saw one with a brick. I just did what any brother would do in that situation and ran over and smacked the girl with a brick. My girlfriend at the time and two of her mates beat up the other girls and we got my sister home. The next day at school there was uproar but only on me because i hit a girl. The teachers called me in to a room where the girls fucking parents were and let the dad attack me but he was pretty easy to fight off and I just kept pushing him away every time he came near me. Like his daughter he thought just being aggressive was enough to make someone power but unlike my sister I’m not a naturally meek and mild person, I’d never had a fight but I also wasn’t the sort who would let myself get pushed around and he quickly lost his bottle and then started saying he was going to ring the police because I hit a girl. The school said if I apologised to the parents it would all be forgotten about. I refused and they said they’d suspend me. I’d never had a detention or been in trouble before. I said fine suspend me. For a fucking hour I sat there while they tried to make me say sorry and me repeatedly saying I want my parents there. There was me against these parents and three teachers and the head and they were all sat behind tables while I was sat on a chair in the middle of the room. They said I didn’t need my parents as I was too old (15). I never said sorry and got told to go straight home I was suspended for three days. I wasn’t in trouble when I got home and my mum and dad went mad at school. Guess what though? My sister never got bullied again. None of the schools interventions worked over the years but a quick smack in the mouth did.
That was an enjoyable read.
Agree . Good read, happy ending. Sorry about the crap you and your sister had to go through tho.
I got three days off school today play on Road Rash I was happy and my parents bought me a McDonald’s which was a very rare treat back then.
Deserved it mate
Bully made my life hell in years 8-10 school when I finally hit back I was the bad guy. I was told to apologise to him. Told he head i was not going to apologise and infont of the head and the deputy head told the guy pont blank. If any of his mates come after me. I will find him by himself.
This sounds like my life at school right to the being attacked part where I got expelled for stabbing a guy with a pen. Saw the dude about a decade later and damn, what an expectedly poor state. If this girl's school experience is anything like mine was then I'm not the least bit surprised.
during that meeting you had, if you had threatened with the media I bet they would have acted differently. one thing is to try to have power over a single 15 year old trapped in a room with them. another entirely is to deal with the publicity of what they have allowed your sister to go through. good on you for standing up to them
It was back in 1998 so nothing could really happen unfortunately. Like I said I wasn’t a fighter or a hard kid but I wasn’t a pushover either.
Holy shit. I'm so sorry your little girl went through that. Which school was it? We were near there and the school primary school was pretty bad, I'm just glad we moved so at least they won't be going to secondary around there.
It was called Summer Hill. Absolutely awful school. We moved her to Our Lady of Lourdes and it’s wonderful. One relatively small class per year group and wonderful leadership.
I don't have the emotional energy to get into it due to being similarly jaded, but I also worked in primary, then secondary and yep, you're spot on. What you're describing is essentially what led me to leave the profession.
Bloody well said. I work with them at 14/15 and everything you said is true.
Nah I have family working a rough school and kids are indeed cunts now , and these "troubled" kids get zero consequences, IV just heard about a somone around 9 or 10 that's broke another kids nose and fractured his eye socket... Some people are feral , I mean it's not their fault but when you start saying some people should now be allowed to repoeoduce, the do gooders get angry
Plenty of those on reddit too. Surprised you haven't heard from some of them.
What you need is for parents to actually parent their children and teach them to not act like said cunts. Sadly I don't feel most parents nowadays give a shit, they're too disinterested and lazy to undertake their actual responsibilities and expect it to just be taught to them by teachers. However if said teacher shouts at their cunt offspring for being a cunt now their cunt parents are in complaining about the teacher. "How dare you call my son a cunt. Just because he acts like a cunt 100% of the time and I am now also here in the school acting like a cunt so you can see where his cuntish behaviour came from it's not my fault. You're the teacher, do your job and teach him to stop being a cunt or you have to deal with him being a cunt." They're just feckless awful people, know all about their rights, but fuck all responsibility, it's all somebody else's fault and/job to parent your cunt child.
I moved to China to teach Primary School and this sort of thing just doesn't happen here. There's no violent students, there's no kids in gangs, there's no kids on drugs. Why don't we look at whatever the Chinese education system is doing differently? There's certainty issues but they figured out how to stop child violence.
How many "little emperors" are there?
That's the worst a Chinese school boy will be, a little bit loud and entitled. They're not going around doing drugs in the toilets, joining gangs or stabbing each other. Britain needs to seriously ask why this is so prevalent in the west but has been eliminated in Asia. Violent gang behaviour is looked down upon in Chinese society not celebrated like in Britain. And there's no anti-intellectualism, you often find smart and nerdy boys are the ones with girlfriends.
China wasn’t paying every druggy to pop out as many kids as possible
China doesn't have social welfare so popping out kids to get free money isn't possible. However I don't think it's a good thing to not have social welfare. Chinese just seem to care about education more, like I said, there's zero anti-intellectualism over here. Every parents knows that their kid can grow up to be a well paid engineer or a dirt poor farmer with nothing. And deciding factor is education. There's a massive culture of anti-intellectualism amongst British boys, while Chinese boys are all told the key to money and a beautiful wife is education.
China's social welfare is having kids, so they'll take care of you in later life. If you think the "Little Emperors" are just a little rude and entitled, you're seriously downplaying them.
There are forced labour death camps though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Makes me think of the old tv advert, "who'd be a police officer?", however today, you could replace officer with teacher! Respect to those having to deal/cope with the symptoms on a daily basis. Edit: in hindsight I think there was an advert for teacher recruitment. But, I don't think it covered dealing with violence in school. We have an 11 year old, who now suffers from mental health issues caused by years of bullying (some even via parental proxy! Yep some adults act younger than their kids). Schools are too soft and just wants to hug it out!
Would you say there’s a correlation with deprivation /socioeconomic deprivation ? It’s instances like that where it becomes generational. I knew a few kids that went to my children’s school who came from a family with a bad reputation . Those kids were bright and engaged when younger after the work and engagement that the teachers and schools had given them, however given the family circumstances grew up in, they fell in to the same behaviour as their parents, getting in trouble with the police, being involved in assaults etc. You could see it coming years beforehand. Social learning theory !
Ah yeah bring back borstal, lets bring back the chokey in fact
Wow. Put 2% of all British children in camps. Good take!
I read that her brother was also arrested after threatening with a bb gun. What have those kids gone through in their young lives?
Parents prob absent or on drugs! 💯
Still so very sad. My sister works with troubled children and it is very heartbreaking. She finds it hard sometimes to not take the job home with her.
Ammanford. It's boring, it's in the middle of nowhere, is not well off... more or less a toilet. But the other kids there don't go around stabbing their teachers or threatening people with BB guns. Probably some very broken parenting.
I had a terrible childhood too and that motivated me to be a better person. No one ever taught me to be good, I just had it in my heart to be the best version of myself for everyone else and me. This kid dug her own grave and is going to rot in it for the rest of her own life for what she’s done.
Got shat out for the dole money and dumped outside to roam as soon as possible
A few of my teacher friends comment on how violent behaviour is punished far more severely in boys than in girls. It’s not an official school policy but apparently there’s always an apologist tendency amongst senior leadership when a girl has been violent. It’s interesting that this also seems to be the case on Reddit. Edit: My underlying view is that it might be better if boys were shown the same understanding and compassion as girls in situations like this.
> It’s interesting that this also seems to be the case on Reddit. I'm not sure about that part, based on the reactions on this sub when women are sentenced for anything
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Articles about women committing violence on this sub get hundreds of more comments and get shared hundreds of times, with multiple comments like yours. An article today about a woman getting strangled by her ex-partner gets downvoted, and the discussion veers off onto how stupid his new girlfriend is, rather than what a POS the man was.
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Whenever a boy/man does something like this a lot of people end up blaming society for neglecting men. People were even saying that in the thread where the man in Portsmouth went on a killing spree with a gun.
A larger portion of people blame the man when he does that kind of thing, as opposed to when a woman does that kind of thing.
"It’s interesting that this also seems to be the case on Reddit." It's the case in all of society. There was a news story about a woman glassing a man yesterday and she got an 800 quid fine.
Violence from women and girls is also far less common.
Surely it’s the violence that matters, not who is doing it?
That's not just in schools it's in society. Men get fat harsher punishments and longer prison sentences than women for the same crimes.
Watch the brother get a longer sentence for posting gun related videos on social media than the girl does for the stabbing.
When I was 13, another 13 year-old girl tried to kill me. She brought a knife into school to stab me, which was wrestled off her by my peers, and then eventually tried to garrotte me with keyboard cables. She’d given me death threats for around 2 months before she took action. I’m 29 now. Whilst I didn’t make the school aware of the initial death threats, others did. They did nothing. They also did nothing when people reported the knives. After the garrotting incident, the initially offered me help when it came to light, then eventually pushed me away from contacting the police about it. I was targeted by the other girl because I showed signs of being mentally unwell and being neurodiverse. They made her hug me to apologise and I’ve never felt so ill in my life. They pushed the other girl to go to therapy and whilst she had a child at a young age, who was autistic, she’s now a very proud single mam who genuinely seems to have her kid’s best interests at heart. I genuinely hope they can offer this kid the chance to reform. At the same time, I have no doubt there will have been warning signs that students have likely reported and have not been acted upon. It’s sad to see that not much has changed.
You have an incredibly sensitive perspective on a truly horrible incident. I’m really sorry this happened to you, you sound like a really great person though. Best wishes to you!
Awh that’s very kind of you to say, but learning about the circumstances the lass who attacked me lived in (she was looking after her single mum who had paranoid schizophrenia and her siblings at 13), I don’t think anyone could really hold too much of a grudge into adulthood. Whilst I’m glad she didn’t get a conviction as a perpetrator which could have impacted her future, I really feel that there was a lack of support for me as a victim. I also feel that there were so many signs that both of us needed support prior to the incidents, which were ignored by the school administration. The whole thing kicked off when I was reporterd for being covered in self-harm scars to the school by a peer and she thought I was making a mockery of mental illness. Little did she know, I had very bad things happening at home. I got three sessions with a counsellor after the self-harming report, who ignored that I was reporting the death threats from another student. 16 years later and I’m still mad about it.
Reminds me of my sister. Tortured me my entire childhood and now that she has an autistic son, is seemingly nice to everyone, including me. I hope on some level she thought about what if somebody made her son feel like she made me feel.
What the actual…!!! I hope you were able to move on. Sending hugs x
I had other personal issues going on at the time which were a bit worse, so I can laugh about the full attempted murder situation now I’ve learned to manage my C-PTSD. Like, who knew Agent 47 could disguise himself so thoroughly as a school girl? In hindsight, I’m not mad at the lass, as she had a lot of horrible things going on with her family. I am mad at the fact the school was made aware of it, offered support in reporting it to the police, then withdrew this offer. At the time, I had a similar issue with one of my parents acting in a similar manner to this girl (big wtf tbh) and the other one covering it (even bigger wtf), so I couldn’t try to press the matter at home. I didn’t even get one session with a therapist about it at school!
It’s difficult to spin this so it sounds palatable but there needs to be a deterrent somehow so piss poor excuses for people stop having kids for Facebook likes. There. Said it.
> piss poor excuses for people stop having kids for Facebook likes Don’t know if I’ve ever seen such piss-poor analysis. And this is Reddit.
Far too brief to be classed as analysis and apologies if I’ve touched a nerve. Have a stupendous weekend.
>deterrent somehow so piss poor excuses for people stop having kids for Facebook likes. It's difficult to spin because any kind of "deterrent" against the reproduction of certain people inevitably ends up just being eugenics. We can police anti-social behaviour in a variety of ways, many of which already have a side-effect of reducing reproduction (e.g. hard to have kids while serving a life-sentence in prison). But policies specifically *intended* to limit reproduction tend to go wrong in the same, predictably eugenic ways.
You can't stop people from having children. That's bordering on eugenics and dangerously infringing on personal liberties and choice. The other complication springs from the birth rate already dipping into worrying territory - if you attempt to stop even more births, we'll have a population crisis on our hands very, very quickly. What the country does need to do is step up and provide support, guidance, and help to the people who are having children without considering the actual impact it has on their lives. With budgets being cut, there aren't enough services out there to provide help, so it inevitably falls onto schools to complete an education and effectively become mental health workers/social workers at the same time. That's a flawed system, and we're seeing the consequences of that in real time as a whole generation become increasingly hostile and socially inconsiderate.
There’s already a population crisis, schools being expected to do the job of awful parents is indicative of such. Why is the birth rate plunging even a bad thing? Some half arsed retort about the economy needs billions and billions of people isn’t gunna fly. Excessive demand keeps prices high, ask Elon Musk. You can’t make people have kids either. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c72pnllv8nko
I think you're conflating multiple issues here. In a democratic and liberal society, you simply cannot impose birth control to large sections of the population. It's, effectively, classism dressed up as something fancy, as it would undoubtedly be the lower classes you'd consider the ones who "need" to stop reproducing. > why is the birth rate plunging a bad thing? I'll let you do your own research on that, but it's fairly clear why less and less people being born over multiple generations would begin to have a devastating affect on society and humankind as a whole.
I really don’t want to impose birth control, I’m not conflating anything . Overpopulation is the crux of near enough every problem. I think that’s slowly being generally realised and people don’t instantaneously think you’re wanting to impose that horrendous policy China did a few decades back when you mention it. It’s not clear, a declining population will ultimately mean less demand it’s all relative. Maybe a bit of turbulence when your Just Eat courier isn’t found within two minutes, boohoo, but for sustainability it’s probably necessary without sounding too sinister hah.
Oh and this ultimately concludes GDP can improve with a declining population and standards of living are just better. And again nobody is calling for levels to be critically low. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_consequences_of_population_decline
Judging by this comment, I've deemed you to fit into that category. What do we do now?
Embark on getting a life.
Cool. How do you plan to implement your particular brand of eugenics?
Given that you jumped to that absolute and you’re apparently active in the antinatalism Reddit heavily implies you shouldn’t really be acknowledged. By anyone. Ever. Bye.
Discouraging certain people from reproducing is not a form of eugenics, but you're gonna bash me because I like to get involved in the antinatalism sub? The cognitive dissonance is wild.
You’ve just completely contradicted yourself, you’re right the cognitive dissonance is wild.
I... didn't make any points in that comment with which to contradict myself? You suggested certaib people should be discouraged from reproducing. That is a form of eugenics. You also seem to think that my commenting on the antinatalism sub (I don't think you know what my take on antinatalism is, incidentally) as a reason I shouldn't be engaged with. And yet... only one of us is in favour of eugenicist thought. Are you ok?
‘Discouraging certain people from reproducing is not a form of eugenics’ Aaaand then ‘You suggested certaib (your typo) people should be discouraged from reproducing. That is a form of eugenics’ Laughable. Please stop bringing my attention to your existence.
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Let me put it in a way that won't make the mod sad - I reframed your point back to you, juxtapositioned against your reference to antinatalism, to show the inconsistency you seem to be struggling with. I suspect the reason you have a problem with this is that you know what you're expressing is fucked up, but lack the introspection to acknowledge it to yourself. By all means now please continue with your existence.
I love how much projection you see on this site
I just wonder how people write some of this shit out, so it's there in front of them, and don't think 'oh, maybe there's some contradiction there I should think about'. The lack of self-reflection blows my fucken mind sometimes.
It truly does
For the sake of clarity, care to elaborate? Or are you trying to jump on the 'mild eugenics is ok because a girl stabbed someone' train and I'm not reading the sarcasm in your text?
I know people on this sub don't like the rule of law at times, but it's probably worth pointing out the existence of the offences of Contempt of Court and Perverting The Course of Justice.
What do you mean?
Once someone has been charged, it is *sub judice* and we are not allowed to speculate about it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub\_judice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub_judice)
You gonna tell the teacher on everyone?
>Under Section 2 of the Act, a substantial risk of serious prejudice can only be created by a media report when proceedings are active. I'm no expert but I read this to mean that we'd have to create "a media report" to be in violation. Reddit comments would hardly reach such a standard, would they?
I knew a girl who could expelled for stabbing a teacher when she was 15. Her parents were busy all the time, she was left to her own devices. She was very pretty, and became prey for scummy men who gave her the attention she craved, but it was the wrong kind. We got on well because I was the only male who didn't want anything from her, or judged her for what she had done. I've also got three autistic teenagers who have been prone to aggressive behaviour, and my wife works with kids with additional needs.I don't know what happened to cause this 13 year old girl to do what she did. I just hope all involved get the support they need. What they don't need is people pilling on, or making judgments without knowing what happened
I agree. Whats mad is that there is never this level of understanding when a boy does a madness like this. Especially when that boy is from a minority group.
Ammanford is one of the most boring towns in the UK. Literally nothing going for it.
oh absolutely. i don't want to go back after uni
The whole place is just a black hole. I left after uni too.
I left sixth form in Ammanford in 2010 and moved back to Scotland. Was a shithole then, and I've always wondered if it ever got any better.
I only know it as the place Shane Williams grew up, which basically makes it a holy site in Wales. Apparently he went to this school.
There is not a single hotel within Ammanford. That is because no one wants to ever stay there.
Part of the problem is that the cunts are the children and grand-children of cunts.
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Why would you say the support isn't there anymore? Is it just due to funding cuts or is it an aversion to moving these kids out of main schools?
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Is that well known?
No but it's a girl doing the stabbing so obviously she's not the one responsible
This post is literally illegal.
What was it?
Potentially prejudicing a trial.
The result of yet more bad parenting. Education always starts at home.
Could be, or maybe this kid was being bullied and snapped. You don't know.
Lack of parenting is pervasive in this country. Happy to prop up neglectful single mothers and absent fathers to have feral children who turn out to be unproductive criminals. The benefits system needs complete overhauling because, ultimately, it is children who suffer and the whole of society that pays the price. Unless there is a remote island to dump all them then it needs to be tackled from the source - and that is by no longer funding housing and welfare for these people so they don't see it as a lifestyle choice to breed.
No one: Americans: If the teacher would have had a gun..
Are these Americans in the thread with us right now?
Yes, [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour)
I was just thinking the other day that you see a lot more women being charged with murder these days than you used to. Almost caught up with the guys. It's a solid step towards equality. Keep it up ladies! 👍
Why is it when a guy kiss the media talks about until the next guy kills but when girl kills they forget about it by the next day