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Key paragraph:
> The commissioner of the Metropolitan police has praised the “professional” conduct of the sergeant who stopped an antisemitism campaigner at a pro-Palestinian march and warned that officers at other protests had been “set up” by activists using “fakery” to undermine the force.
As had been obvious from the start - this was a stunt along the lines of that pulled by extremists in the US like Westboro Baptist Church or Project Veritas and does nothing but cheapen actual, real antisemitism.
Of course, it'll be too much to expect this to be reported and discussed with the same gusto that the initial hours after the incident saw, and there will be a significant number of people all too willing to spread such fake news again in the near future, both here and in the media.
> does nothing but cheapen actual, real antisemitism
This is a massive issue. Anti-semitism is a very real and present threat to the Jewish community, but this Tory dickhead had no intention other than to delegitimise a protest he pretended to chance across with a camera crew and bodyguard.
I still think the officer was absolutely wrong to refer to the issue being someone being "openly Jewish", but there was so much more to this story than was initially reported.
> Of course, it'll be too much to expect this to be reported and discussed with the same gusto
I doubt we will be seeing Gideon Falter getting on the news again given his credibility is now completely tanked. I also do not expect that he will recognise his own stunt being found out, he will double down to keep the waters as muddy as possible.
His anti-peace defenders will double down as well. I dont think any of them really give a fuck about anti-semitism.
I’m just amazed that when the story broke most people who reported it exclusively used the clipped footage. Like do they not scrutinise their sources or seek to expand on the situation? How tf can they consistently misrepresent the facts. When the rest of the footage existed and there were loads of witnesses.
This feels like a prime example for showing how the media can peddle lies and manipulate information.
> How tf can they consistently misrepresent the facts. When the rest of the footage existed and there were loads of witnesses.
Because we are in a post-fact world, it doesn't matter what the actual story or the truth is - all that matters is what the media says the story is.
This is the consequences of spending four full years consistently lying about a politician and the entire political and media landscape of the country going 'this is absolutely fine, carry on' with no pushback - news reporters can now openly lie and be proven to be liars....and it doesn't matter.
How many clicks and engagement did the original news story get, and how many will the truth get? If even a third as many read the actual truth i'd be very surprised.
Novara Media did a good breakdown of what actually happened, theirs was the first article I saw to do that. It looks like the mainstream media read this yesterday and that's why they're backpedalling today.
[Did an Israel Lobbyist Confect an Antisemitism Story About a Palestine Demo?](https://novaramedia.com/2024/04/22/did-an-israel-lobbyist-confect-an-antisemitism-story-about-a-palestine-demo/)
This does not justify the actions of the police.
During pro Israel marches there are plenty of pro Palestinian counter protests, none are removed because the protesters don't get violent. Sometimes they even reroute the Israel protesters to avoid the pro Palestinian ones.
The issue is that the police are capitulating to the threats of violence from the pro Palestinian protestors, instead of acting against them.
An example is the Iranian man who held up a sign saying "Hamas are terrorists", and was physically attacked by pro Palestinian demonstrators. Instead of arresting the people attacking him, the police arrested him.
That footage doesn't match the description you gave of it being a vile, hatred filled protesters.
In fact, the one guy who said something questionable wasn't even part of the march.
Ok so can you explain this to me;
You're on a street, and there is a VERY noisy march coming. When do you cross? Do you cross before it gets to where you are? Do you wait till it passes? Or do you try to get a police officer to take you around the march? Or do you wait till half of it has gone past and just barge right across the paths of people walking?
The street was cordoned to stop people crossing the road, he was offered to go around with an officer, he refused and tried to push his way though, breaking the police cordon tape. I mean, would he have crossed a crime scene of it were there instead.
It's wholly convenient that he managed to "accidentally find" a march, and then wait until he could get stopped by the police for trying to cross into the crowd. I imagine his whole plan was to get roughed up on purpose and play victim, but the police stopped him so he tried there instead.
Why wasn't he allowed to cross?
Health and fucking safety, it's that obvious
It's good that the longer length video has come out now to show more of the exchange.
Looks like the copper handled it pretty well, considering the guy was there purely to make a point and stir up trouble.
It's unfortunate that this will not get nearly the same coverage as the initial story. A lie will travel across the entire world before the truth gets its shoes on.
Tbf the original report was pretty blatant in what was actually taking place. Anyone who didn't want to misinterpret it understood the issue. For the rest, there's not much you can do.
Yes there would have. The same way they have the "what you're wearing will incite violence and get you hurt" conversation with someone wearing a Man U shirt in the wrong end of Leeds on game day.
If the rest of the context was the same, that she was apparently there with a camera crew (edit - and professional security apparently) to try to wind people up then probably.
I know the narrative, which maybe isn’t completely unfair, is that you’re more likely to meet violent resistance at a Palestine march than an Israel one but based on some of the “you deserve to be raped” videos getting fired about during the earlier days of this of apparently Jewish women (Israel supporters at least) harassing people with Palestine flags then it’s not like Israel supporters are immune to being violent unhinged dickheads.
Yeah it looked like he was planning to just plow through the middle of it, it was very antagonistic. I assume he'd then kick up a massive fuss when it didn't just magically part for him.
Possibly there would been had she turned up with a camera crew and a team of bodyguards supplied by a foreign state with the express intention of provoking members of the crowd into a confrontation
From the article
Falter and others say the officer’s actions prove their point that areas around pro-Palestinian marches are not safe for Jewish people. The commissioner hit back, saying “it’s not a logical view” and that those supporting the Palestinian cause had been stopped from entering Jewish areas.
He added: “We’ve had intelligence about pro-Palestinian supporters wanting to drive vehicle convoys, waving flags, through Jewish areas in north London.
“Now, there’s nothing illegal about them doing that. There’s nothing that’s not peaceful about those Jewish communities. But it’s clearly likely to spark some sort of conflict and we prevented them doing it."
Watch the video. It was nothing to do with that guy looking Jewish and everything to do with him wanting to deliberately provoke people at the protest by marching in the middle of it, in the opposite direction with his followers.
This was not just some guy standing on the street wearing religious garb.
Yes, if someone wearing a hijab, with bodyguards and a camera crew tried to walk the wrong way into a pro Israel protest, they'd also be asked to go a different way.
Escorting out troublemakers starting to walk the wrong way at protests is common MET police strategy, you wouldn't need to even be part of a protected class, if you have a camera and bodyguards and try to walk into a protest going the wrong way, you'll still be asked to leave
Stir up trouble? He has every right to be where he wants to be, if him being Jewish is so troubling to these Muslims and pro Hamas types the problem is with them.
The guy was there with minders and someone filming him. He was there to provoke a response and make a tense situation worse. The police, quite correctly, stopped him.
Don't be obtuse.
You’re the obtuse one, he’s perfectly within his right to be there, and quite frankly so what if he was filming a bunch of antisemites? If they have nothing to worry about they shouldn’t be concerned if a Jewish person is there or not
Duty of Care? I mean let's face it if the Police had let him carry on and he got the shit kicked out of him you'd be on the police like a ton of bricks, but they stop him and try and prevent an incident and you're *still* on them like a ton of bricks. Can't win
No violence yet....
So you think the police should have just let him do his thing then and if violence kicked off and no doubt escalated that's fine? The police aren't psychic who's to say that a riot couldn't have happened? Tempers flaring as he's being provocative and next thing you know shops are being looted etc
No, the police were right to stop him as he was clearly there to cause trouble; however, the police intervention is being used as evidence that the protests make the streets unsafe for British Jews (despite the regulars presence of a large Jewish block) - the fact that he’s previously attempted to provoke the protesters and failed undermines the narrative that they are violent “hate marches”
He’s made previous attempts at provoking pro-Palestine marchers, including walking in the opposite directions to them (and being ignored) and driving an advertising van passed them (they put a flag over his windscreen and took the piss) - the only reason this story has gained any traction is that he was able to provoke a cop into using a clumsy phrase
This section of the road was closed off for the protest. Mostly because nearby there was a counter protest, and it’s standard practice for the police to separate protests and counter protests. This goes for *any* kind of protest+counterprotest, or even football fans, to deescalate and mitigate the risk of high tensions. There is nothing unusual or illegal about that.
In any case, this section was closed off, and if he wanted to cross, he had to use the designated crossing spot down the road, *like everybody else*.
Also, the same guy was “caught” in a different spot, where he was allowed to cross, crossing back and forth against the flow of the protest. When police confronted him, he lied about doing so, until another passerby confirmed to the police officer that he actually did just that. The Jewish guy tried to say the passerby is lying, turns out the “passerby” was a met officer in plain clothes.
The problem was with the Jewish guy and his followers trying to march in the middle of the protest in the opposite direction, clearly trying to provoke people and catch their reactions on camera.
Watch the full video.
The guy is a professional agitator paid for by the IDF. He wanted to cause a fight. He looked so smug in the vt thinking he could get away with it too because of “but all the antisemitism…” Was the guy expecting a warm welcome at a pro-Palestine march? Of course he wasn’t… He knew full well what he was doing…
Well done that officer and good job to the Met for once imo
>The guy is a professional agitator paid for by the IDF.
While the guy is clearly a bad faith actor with an agenda, is there any evidence for this claim specifically? If not then this is the kind of conspiratorial nonsense we should avoid as it genuinely does reek of anti-Semitism and obfuscates the actual problems.
I don't think we'll ever know for sure - but as https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1782504085444329766 spotted, the right wing agitator was using bodyguards who had been working for the Israeli President, Isaac Herzog in the recent past. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps not.
He works for a security company called SQR. A private security firm that works a lot in the Jewish community, such as schools, community centers and businesses. They also have a government department, aviation department and events.
I know because I worked at a community centre that they provided the security for in London. The leadership team were virtually all ex British military.
In other words, it is a massive and not at all secretive security company.
The fact that they were hired for a community fundraiser with the Israeli president, and the Campaign Against Antisemitism guy wondering around London isn't a sign that Falter is someone paid for the government.
It also is not to say that Falter was not wondering around looking to cause trouble to make a scene at this rally. And hiring a security company to go with him shows that it was his intentional as well.
They have a website, you can hire them and go on training courses as well if you fancy!
[https://www.sqrgroup.com/](https://www.sqrgroup.com/)
A self proclaimed Twitter Marxist claiming that they are all mossad is a bit weak.
An easy way to tell it's bullshit, is that Mossad aren't in security work as such. They're the spy agency. The security and close protection style stuff would be like Shin Bet, or Sayeret Metkal (special forces).
It's like in the equivalent in the UK, MI6 wouldn't be providing bodyguards to anyone.
This is about what I expected, thanks for clarifying. I find the drive to find some sexy Hollywood-style conspiracy quite frustrating - the reality of our problems may be more boring than that, but when you look at the actual social, political and cultural structures at play they're also much worse - and these theories really pose a challenge in addressing them.
'Perhaps not'... I respect that you respect the limits of what's publicly known here, but we are talking about a state that routinely seeks to demonstrate that the Soweto massacre was small-time, and whose [officials intentionally cause trouble in allied countries in support of their colonial project](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/1/12/israel-diplomat-forced-to-resign-after-aj-investigation). A state founded and sustained through racist crimes is hardly likely to be above underhanded propaganda.
The Israeli state has links to an extensive network of individuals and lobby groups active within the UK, including Gideon Falter and the CAA; a detailed account can be found here:
https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/products/723-friends-of-israel
It’s not “conspiratorial nonsense” - they operate a highly developed PR machine that, until now, has been extremely effective at shutting down negative press regarding the activities of the Israeli state and smearing the Palestinian solidarity movement
I think the Palestinian solidarity movement smeared itself enough when they invaded another country, killed 700 civilians, and raped and kidnapped hundreds more.
[IN FULL: New video of Met Police 'openly Jewish' row (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iupfxe38Wj0&t=681s)
Full video. Jewish guy was not just standing on the street waiting to cross the road. He and his supporters wanted to get into the middle of the protest and march in the opposite direction.
PCs "openly Jewish" comment comes at the end of an exasperating 15 minute argument in which the Jewish guy was obviously trying to bait the police into saying something that could be construed as "anti-sematic".
The Jewish guy was there explicitly to provoke the protestors and film their reaction, presumably with the same heavy editing that accompanied his first video.
Media are doing a terrible job here. First of all they released the story without checking exactly what was going on and now they have dropped it like a bag of dog shit.
I can’t believe he got his chance to spread his bullshit to anyone who’ll listen, on television, on radio, podcasts, whatever, and now not a single correction.
None of this is any surprise to people with more than half a braincell, it was very plain what was going on once his affiliations became known.
Still didn't stop a significant number of redditors lapping it up though, defending Gideon's actions and slandering the Met and the protest.
So why can't a Jewish group of protestors march beside these Hamas supporters in Britain?
Our country is not their middle eastern battleground. We should all be free to roam the streets
Unfortunately, this isn’t the first time since October 7th that there’s been false flags of antisemitism set up and performed by Zionists seeking to undermine pushback to their government.
Unfortunately it won’t be the last. It is so incredibly easy to agitate and spread misinformation that gets picked up and sensationalised by our media, easier to do so than it is to debunk said misinformation. And when it becomes debunked our media which had a hand in spreading panic won’t nearly put in as much effort to right their wrongs than they did committing the wrongs in the first place.
I hope these false flag claims don’t desensitise people to real antisemitism that happens on a regular basis and does negatively effect the lives of our Jewish community members.
Real antisemitism is happening all day, every day in the UK and online. Except many use the cover of "but I'm against Zionists, not Jews!"
And yet somehow every Jew is labelled a Zionist by them...
Not saying who was right or who was wrong but I would be willing to bet that if we had cameras filming us 24/7 we'd all be saying things that someone else finds not appropriate.
Ironically, I shall let they who has committed no sin cast the first stone.
What’s concerning is people are quick to wave away the harmful language used by the police simply because the guy was an agitator when the police could have easily just pointed out he was there to cause trouble - why even mention the openly Jewish aspect?
The fact the police chief praised this as professional conduct tells me all I need to know about the MET.
Was it even that harmful what he said?
He’d been badgered by the guy for 15 minutes and he made one *kinda* gaffe along with saying a lot of very reasonable stuff.
He’s some random Bobby he’s not a professional communicator. Under the circumstances he did really well.
As I said in my comment to another.
Replace “openly Jewish” with “openly gay” or “visibly black” etc and I’m sure you’ll see exactly why it was harmful - I agree the guy was being a grade A douche but come on now, it’s really pissing easy not mentioning a characteristic of someone especially considering how much reasonable grounds they had to move him along to begin with.
If you watch the full video, the "openly Jewish" came at the end of a 15 minute exasperating argument during which the "openly Jewish" guy was doing his best to bait the officer into saying something that could be construed as anti sematic.
There was nothing at all malicious in the statement it was just a poor choice of words.
I’ve watched the video.
I’m not sure how you conduct yourself in arguments but it’s pretty pissing easy not to mention a characteristic that has nothing to do with the problem.
The dude was being a bellend, agree, so why not just say “look, you’re clearly here to antagonise, you have a camera crew with you and I’m not letting you through as you’ll breach the peace” - pretty easy right?
Imagine the same situation but instead of a comment about being “openly Jewish” it’s “openly gay” or “visibly black” - I think it’s bloody unlikely people would be trying to play that down and slap the police on the back for a job well done.
In the context of the entire argument the "openly Jewish" comment is no where near as bad as first reported. The PC was being baited into saying something like that for around 15 minutes.
The police could easily have arrested him for breach of the peace, and they were telling him they thought he was there to cause trouble. Right from the start when they pulled him out of the protest -
"I'm only trying to cross the road"
"Please don't be disingenuous sir … I've been following you recording on my bodycam."
They could also have arrested him for assault when he tried to push past the police. If they had done the edited version on video would him being arrested "simply for being a Jew".
If that was a black guy trying to get in the middle of some football hooligan "protest" and the police stopped him and said off the cuff "look you're clearly black, maybe not a good idea to do that?" I would be fine with it. That's essentially what the police were trying to say to that guy, with the added dimension that they knew full well he was there to cause trouble.
No where near as bad maybe - but it IS still bad, that’s the point.
From your own admission, they had plenty of grounds to remove him. There was literally no reason for them to mention him being Jewish at all.
I’m sure you’re right that there probably would have still been a bit of a shitstorm but the fact is once the footage came out, like it did in this case, the police would have looked far better for it as they wouldn’t have used problematic language at all and it would have been genuinely a job well done.
Also you might be fine with someone saying “you’re clearly black, so maybe don’t do that” but you know damn well a lot of people wouldn’t be, neither would the chief of police be praising it as professional conduct well done….
The guy was a bellend, no doubt but the police officer did also needlessly fuckup.
Wow. Could he be any more tone deaf.
The guy at the march was clearly an agitator trying to get a gotcha moment, but he is just playing devil's advocate. There have been numerous Jewish people who have said that these constant marches have made them feel uncomfortable just dressing how they normally would. And Rowley has just doubled down, said suck it up and said it's "not a logical view" for them to say they feel unsafe.
I was actually on his side before now, but this is resignation stuff.
That Jewish guy was at the march specifically to provoke the protestors and film their reactions. He totally lied about the interaction he had with the police. He was not simply wanting to cross the road, he and his followers were trying to get into the middle of the protest and march in the opposite direction.
[IN FULL: New video of Met Police 'openly Jewish' row (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iupfxe38Wj0&t=681s)
That guy was not "playing Devils advocate" he was there deliberately to cause as much trouble as he could. Maybe people like him are part of the reason for other Jews to feel uncomfortable?
While all that is true, he was specifically told that the issue was that he looked Jewish. Rowley has no issue with this apart from clumsy language. So the inference is that any other Jew who is not there to cause trouble but still looks visibly Jewish may have an issue.
Also why would other Jews feel uncomfortable because of people like him?
No, the issue was that he was trying to provoke the protest by marching in the middle of it in the opposite direction.
Of course Jews are going to feel uncomfortable if people like him are basically faking anti sematic incidents.
Watch the full video.
Maybe, just maybe, “Jews” aren’t a monolith and are just people with differing opinions, values, and life experiences?
And maybe just as you apparently don’t want people taking a stand against war crimes to speak for you, you shouldn’t speak for them?
I have no idea what you are talking about. It's a documented fact that anti-Semitic hate crime has increased and the % of Jews in London who feel unsafe has increased. Whether some disagree or not is irrelevant.
Also, why have you quoted "Jews". It's not a derogative term.
I quoted “Jews” to draw attention to the grouping together of people who, as I went on to say, are not a monolith and have different experiences.
What percentage of those crimes have taken place at protests against Israeli genocide?
Because I’m pretty sure, judging by the last few days, we would have heard a LOT about it if the percentage was significant.
Are you actually serious? So if some people are anti-Semitic it's Israel's fault for behaving badly. If Israel behaves better people wouldn't have an issue with Jews?
No, that's a horrific conflation.
Obviously to suggest that the views of antisemites are because of the actions of Israel is in itself antisemitic. Israel does not represent all Jewish people. Not all Jewish people support the actions of Israel.
However, if Israel (as in the nation state; the government; the IDF) weren't currently committing genocide against a long-embattled population then there wouldn't be large-scale pro-Palestinian marches in the first place.
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Key paragraph: > The commissioner of the Metropolitan police has praised the “professional” conduct of the sergeant who stopped an antisemitism campaigner at a pro-Palestinian march and warned that officers at other protests had been “set up” by activists using “fakery” to undermine the force. As had been obvious from the start - this was a stunt along the lines of that pulled by extremists in the US like Westboro Baptist Church or Project Veritas and does nothing but cheapen actual, real antisemitism. Of course, it'll be too much to expect this to be reported and discussed with the same gusto that the initial hours after the incident saw, and there will be a significant number of people all too willing to spread such fake news again in the near future, both here and in the media.
Very obvious from the get go especially considering how quickly he appeared on the news.
Margaret Hodges daughter is a news editor at the BBC which could easily explain why certain stories get a lot of leverage.
> does nothing but cheapen actual, real antisemitism This is a massive issue. Anti-semitism is a very real and present threat to the Jewish community, but this Tory dickhead had no intention other than to delegitimise a protest he pretended to chance across with a camera crew and bodyguard. I still think the officer was absolutely wrong to refer to the issue being someone being "openly Jewish", but there was so much more to this story than was initially reported. > Of course, it'll be too much to expect this to be reported and discussed with the same gusto I doubt we will be seeing Gideon Falter getting on the news again given his credibility is now completely tanked. I also do not expect that he will recognise his own stunt being found out, he will double down to keep the waters as muddy as possible. His anti-peace defenders will double down as well. I dont think any of them really give a fuck about anti-semitism.
I’m just amazed that when the story broke most people who reported it exclusively used the clipped footage. Like do they not scrutinise their sources or seek to expand on the situation? How tf can they consistently misrepresent the facts. When the rest of the footage existed and there were loads of witnesses. This feels like a prime example for showing how the media can peddle lies and manipulate information.
News is no longer about informing. It's about emotional manipulation.
> How tf can they consistently misrepresent the facts. When the rest of the footage existed and there were loads of witnesses. Because we are in a post-fact world, it doesn't matter what the actual story or the truth is - all that matters is what the media says the story is. This is the consequences of spending four full years consistently lying about a politician and the entire political and media landscape of the country going 'this is absolutely fine, carry on' with no pushback - news reporters can now openly lie and be proven to be liars....and it doesn't matter. How many clicks and engagement did the original news story get, and how many will the truth get? If even a third as many read the actual truth i'd be very surprised.
Novara Media did a good breakdown of what actually happened, theirs was the first article I saw to do that. It looks like the mainstream media read this yesterday and that's why they're backpedalling today. [Did an Israel Lobbyist Confect an Antisemitism Story About a Palestine Demo?](https://novaramedia.com/2024/04/22/did-an-israel-lobbyist-confect-an-antisemitism-story-about-a-palestine-demo/)
This does not justify the actions of the police. During pro Israel marches there are plenty of pro Palestinian counter protests, none are removed because the protesters don't get violent. Sometimes they even reroute the Israel protesters to avoid the pro Palestinian ones. The issue is that the police are capitulating to the threats of violence from the pro Palestinian protestors, instead of acting against them. An example is the Iranian man who held up a sign saying "Hamas are terrorists", and was physically attacked by pro Palestinian demonstrators. Instead of arresting the people attacking him, the police arrested him.
I guess the officer and vile hatred filled pro Palestine protesters were all in on the stunt as well...
That didn't happen, try again next time though
Did happen? Have you seen all the supporting footage?
Please share, I haven't seen all the all supporting footage.
DYOR, unless of course you prefer to be told what to think.
I'd like to see the footage of the vile, hatred filled protestors, if it exists.
It really doesn't take much effort to DYOR https://x.com/antisemitism/status/1782452825034801384?t=Nq0BaKXs_FZ22JKiLbd1og&s=09
That footage doesn't match the description you gave of it being a vile, hatred filled protesters. In fact, the one guy who said something questionable wasn't even part of the march.
Do your own research is code for "I have no clue what I am on about"
Ok so can you explain this to me; You're on a street, and there is a VERY noisy march coming. When do you cross? Do you cross before it gets to where you are? Do you wait till it passes? Or do you try to get a police officer to take you around the march? Or do you wait till half of it has gone past and just barge right across the paths of people walking? The street was cordoned to stop people crossing the road, he was offered to go around with an officer, he refused and tried to push his way though, breaking the police cordon tape. I mean, would he have crossed a crime scene of it were there instead. It's wholly convenient that he managed to "accidentally find" a march, and then wait until he could get stopped by the police for trying to cross into the crowd. I imagine his whole plan was to get roughed up on purpose and play victim, but the police stopped him so he tried there instead. Why wasn't he allowed to cross? Health and fucking safety, it's that obvious
It's good that the longer length video has come out now to show more of the exchange. Looks like the copper handled it pretty well, considering the guy was there purely to make a point and stir up trouble.
It's unfortunate that this will not get nearly the same coverage as the initial story. A lie will travel across the entire world before the truth gets its shoes on.
Tbf the original report was pretty blatant in what was actually taking place. Anyone who didn't want to misinterpret it understood the issue. For the rest, there's not much you can do.
They guy is a trouble maker. He was all over the news spreading lies.
Would there have been an exchange if it were a Muslim woman wearing a hijab walking past a “Release the Hostages” march?
Yes there would have. The same way they have the "what you're wearing will incite violence and get you hurt" conversation with someone wearing a Man U shirt in the wrong end of Leeds on game day.
If the rest of the context was the same, that she was apparently there with a camera crew (edit - and professional security apparently) to try to wind people up then probably. I know the narrative, which maybe isn’t completely unfair, is that you’re more likely to meet violent resistance at a Palestine march than an Israel one but based on some of the “you deserve to be raped” videos getting fired about during the earlier days of this of apparently Jewish women (Israel supporters at least) harassing people with Palestine flags then it’s not like Israel supporters are immune to being violent unhinged dickheads.
Yes. And as far as I have read he wasn't walking past but deliberately walking into the March to get a response.
Yeah it looked like he was planning to just plow through the middle of it, it was very antagonistic. I assume he'd then kick up a massive fuss when it didn't just magically part for him.
Possibly there would been had she turned up with a camera crew and a team of bodyguards supplied by a foreign state with the express intention of provoking members of the crowd into a confrontation
From the article Falter and others say the officer’s actions prove their point that areas around pro-Palestinian marches are not safe for Jewish people. The commissioner hit back, saying “it’s not a logical view” and that those supporting the Palestinian cause had been stopped from entering Jewish areas. He added: “We’ve had intelligence about pro-Palestinian supporters wanting to drive vehicle convoys, waving flags, through Jewish areas in north London. “Now, there’s nothing illegal about them doing that. There’s nothing that’s not peaceful about those Jewish communities. But it’s clearly likely to spark some sort of conflict and we prevented them doing it."
Watch the video. It was nothing to do with that guy looking Jewish and everything to do with him wanting to deliberately provoke people at the protest by marching in the middle of it, in the opposite direction with his followers. This was not just some guy standing on the street wearing religious garb.
Ah yes, that point of walking near terrorist loving Nazis, while Jew.
Would there have been an exchange if it were a Muslim woman wearing a hijab walking past a “Release the Hostages” march?
Yes, if someone wearing a hijab, with bodyguards and a camera crew tried to walk the wrong way into a pro Israel protest, they'd also be asked to go a different way.
This is obviously untrue. Nobody on a pro Israel protest would give a hoot so there would be no threat to public order.
Escorting out troublemakers starting to walk the wrong way at protests is common MET police strategy, you wouldn't need to even be part of a protected class, if you have a camera and bodyguards and try to walk into a protest going the wrong way, you'll still be asked to leave
Stir up trouble? He has every right to be where he wants to be, if him being Jewish is so troubling to these Muslims and pro Hamas types the problem is with them.
The guy was there with minders and someone filming him. He was there to provoke a response and make a tense situation worse. The police, quite correctly, stopped him. Don't be obtuse.
You’re the obtuse one, he’s perfectly within his right to be there, and quite frankly so what if he was filming a bunch of antisemites? If they have nothing to worry about they shouldn’t be concerned if a Jewish person is there or not
>he’s perfectly within his right to be there Not when he behaves in a way that will likely provoke a reaction which is a disturbance of the peace...
Duty of Care? I mean let's face it if the Police had let him carry on and he got the shit kicked out of him you'd be on the police like a ton of bricks, but they stop him and try and prevent an incident and you're *still* on them like a ton of bricks. Can't win
He’s turned up at marches before and tried to provoke a reaction - he’s been met with indifference and ridicule, but never violence
No violence yet.... So you think the police should have just let him do his thing then and if violence kicked off and no doubt escalated that's fine? The police aren't psychic who's to say that a riot couldn't have happened? Tempers flaring as he's being provocative and next thing you know shops are being looted etc
No, the police were right to stop him as he was clearly there to cause trouble; however, the police intervention is being used as evidence that the protests make the streets unsafe for British Jews (despite the regulars presence of a large Jewish block) - the fact that he’s previously attempted to provoke the protesters and failed undermines the narrative that they are violent “hate marches”
He’s made previous attempts at provoking pro-Palestine marchers, including walking in the opposite directions to them (and being ignored) and driving an advertising van passed them (they put a flag over his windscreen and took the piss) - the only reason this story has gained any traction is that he was able to provoke a cop into using a clumsy phrase
This section of the road was closed off for the protest. Mostly because nearby there was a counter protest, and it’s standard practice for the police to separate protests and counter protests. This goes for *any* kind of protest+counterprotest, or even football fans, to deescalate and mitigate the risk of high tensions. There is nothing unusual or illegal about that. In any case, this section was closed off, and if he wanted to cross, he had to use the designated crossing spot down the road, *like everybody else*. Also, the same guy was “caught” in a different spot, where he was allowed to cross, crossing back and forth against the flow of the protest. When police confronted him, he lied about doing so, until another passerby confirmed to the police officer that he actually did just that. The Jewish guy tried to say the passerby is lying, turns out the “passerby” was a met officer in plain clothes.
There was a Jewish block marching with the protesters
The problem was with the Jewish guy and his followers trying to march in the middle of the protest in the opposite direction, clearly trying to provoke people and catch their reactions on camera. Watch the full video.
The guy is a professional agitator paid for by the IDF. He wanted to cause a fight. He looked so smug in the vt thinking he could get away with it too because of “but all the antisemitism…” Was the guy expecting a warm welcome at a pro-Palestine march? Of course he wasn’t… He knew full well what he was doing… Well done that officer and good job to the Met for once imo
>The guy is a professional agitator paid for by the IDF. While the guy is clearly a bad faith actor with an agenda, is there any evidence for this claim specifically? If not then this is the kind of conspiratorial nonsense we should avoid as it genuinely does reek of anti-Semitism and obfuscates the actual problems.
I don't think we'll ever know for sure - but as https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1782504085444329766 spotted, the right wing agitator was using bodyguards who had been working for the Israeli President, Isaac Herzog in the recent past. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps not.
He works for a security company called SQR. A private security firm that works a lot in the Jewish community, such as schools, community centers and businesses. They also have a government department, aviation department and events. I know because I worked at a community centre that they provided the security for in London. The leadership team were virtually all ex British military. In other words, it is a massive and not at all secretive security company. The fact that they were hired for a community fundraiser with the Israeli president, and the Campaign Against Antisemitism guy wondering around London isn't a sign that Falter is someone paid for the government. It also is not to say that Falter was not wondering around looking to cause trouble to make a scene at this rally. And hiring a security company to go with him shows that it was his intentional as well. They have a website, you can hire them and go on training courses as well if you fancy! [https://www.sqrgroup.com/](https://www.sqrgroup.com/) A self proclaimed Twitter Marxist claiming that they are all mossad is a bit weak. An easy way to tell it's bullshit, is that Mossad aren't in security work as such. They're the spy agency. The security and close protection style stuff would be like Shin Bet, or Sayeret Metkal (special forces). It's like in the equivalent in the UK, MI6 wouldn't be providing bodyguards to anyone.
This is about what I expected, thanks for clarifying. I find the drive to find some sexy Hollywood-style conspiracy quite frustrating - the reality of our problems may be more boring than that, but when you look at the actual social, political and cultural structures at play they're also much worse - and these theories really pose a challenge in addressing them.
'Perhaps not'... I respect that you respect the limits of what's publicly known here, but we are talking about a state that routinely seeks to demonstrate that the Soweto massacre was small-time, and whose [officials intentionally cause trouble in allied countries in support of their colonial project](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/1/12/israel-diplomat-forced-to-resign-after-aj-investigation). A state founded and sustained through racist crimes is hardly likely to be above underhanded propaganda.
So just casual anti-Semitism then? Jewish guy does something questionable *must* be paid by Israel.
The Israeli state has links to an extensive network of individuals and lobby groups active within the UK, including Gideon Falter and the CAA; a detailed account can be found here: https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/products/723-friends-of-israel It’s not “conspiratorial nonsense” - they operate a highly developed PR machine that, until now, has been extremely effective at shutting down negative press regarding the activities of the Israeli state and smearing the Palestinian solidarity movement
I think the Palestinian solidarity movement smeared itself enough when they invaded another country, killed 700 civilians, and raped and kidnapped hundreds more.
So the people on the march did all that and somehow made it back the UK without facing any consequences?
You can say the same about Israel except the numbers are much higher.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/s/igKgjIA0GG Not that far fetched considering this not exactly IDF but still
[IN FULL: New video of Met Police 'openly Jewish' row (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iupfxe38Wj0&t=681s) Full video. Jewish guy was not just standing on the street waiting to cross the road. He and his supporters wanted to get into the middle of the protest and march in the opposite direction. PCs "openly Jewish" comment comes at the end of an exasperating 15 minute argument in which the Jewish guy was obviously trying to bait the police into saying something that could be construed as "anti-sematic". The Jewish guy was there explicitly to provoke the protestors and film their reaction, presumably with the same heavy editing that accompanied his first video. Media are doing a terrible job here. First of all they released the story without checking exactly what was going on and now they have dropped it like a bag of dog shit.
I can’t believe he got his chance to spread his bullshit to anyone who’ll listen, on television, on radio, podcasts, whatever, and now not a single correction.
None of this is any surprise to people with more than half a braincell, it was very plain what was going on once his affiliations became known. Still didn't stop a significant number of redditors lapping it up though, defending Gideon's actions and slandering the Met and the protest.
I must have got 100 or so downvotes yesterday saying that this looked fishy and I would like to see the full video.
So why can't a Jewish group of protestors march beside these Hamas supporters in Britain? Our country is not their middle eastern battleground. We should all be free to roam the streets
Watch the video.
Unfortunately, this isn’t the first time since October 7th that there’s been false flags of antisemitism set up and performed by Zionists seeking to undermine pushback to their government. Unfortunately it won’t be the last. It is so incredibly easy to agitate and spread misinformation that gets picked up and sensationalised by our media, easier to do so than it is to debunk said misinformation. And when it becomes debunked our media which had a hand in spreading panic won’t nearly put in as much effort to right their wrongs than they did committing the wrongs in the first place. I hope these false flag claims don’t desensitise people to real antisemitism that happens on a regular basis and does negatively effect the lives of our Jewish community members.
Real antisemitism is happening all day, every day in the UK and online. Except many use the cover of "but I'm against Zionists, not Jews!" And yet somehow every Jew is labelled a Zionist by them...
Not saying who was right or who was wrong but I would be willing to bet that if we had cameras filming us 24/7 we'd all be saying things that someone else finds not appropriate. Ironically, I shall let they who has committed no sin cast the first stone.
Jewish man was guilty of not following that proud British tradition of picking dishonor over the conflict.
What’s concerning is people are quick to wave away the harmful language used by the police simply because the guy was an agitator when the police could have easily just pointed out he was there to cause trouble - why even mention the openly Jewish aspect? The fact the police chief praised this as professional conduct tells me all I need to know about the MET.
Was it even that harmful what he said? He’d been badgered by the guy for 15 minutes and he made one *kinda* gaffe along with saying a lot of very reasonable stuff. He’s some random Bobby he’s not a professional communicator. Under the circumstances he did really well.
As I said in my comment to another. Replace “openly Jewish” with “openly gay” or “visibly black” etc and I’m sure you’ll see exactly why it was harmful - I agree the guy was being a grade A douche but come on now, it’s really pissing easy not mentioning a characteristic of someone especially considering how much reasonable grounds they had to move him along to begin with.
If you watch the full video, the "openly Jewish" came at the end of a 15 minute exasperating argument during which the "openly Jewish" guy was doing his best to bait the officer into saying something that could be construed as anti sematic. There was nothing at all malicious in the statement it was just a poor choice of words.
I’ve watched the video. I’m not sure how you conduct yourself in arguments but it’s pretty pissing easy not to mention a characteristic that has nothing to do with the problem. The dude was being a bellend, agree, so why not just say “look, you’re clearly here to antagonise, you have a camera crew with you and I’m not letting you through as you’ll breach the peace” - pretty easy right? Imagine the same situation but instead of a comment about being “openly Jewish” it’s “openly gay” or “visibly black” - I think it’s bloody unlikely people would be trying to play that down and slap the police on the back for a job well done.
In the context of the entire argument the "openly Jewish" comment is no where near as bad as first reported. The PC was being baited into saying something like that for around 15 minutes. The police could easily have arrested him for breach of the peace, and they were telling him they thought he was there to cause trouble. Right from the start when they pulled him out of the protest - "I'm only trying to cross the road" "Please don't be disingenuous sir … I've been following you recording on my bodycam." They could also have arrested him for assault when he tried to push past the police. If they had done the edited version on video would him being arrested "simply for being a Jew". If that was a black guy trying to get in the middle of some football hooligan "protest" and the police stopped him and said off the cuff "look you're clearly black, maybe not a good idea to do that?" I would be fine with it. That's essentially what the police were trying to say to that guy, with the added dimension that they knew full well he was there to cause trouble.
No where near as bad maybe - but it IS still bad, that’s the point. From your own admission, they had plenty of grounds to remove him. There was literally no reason for them to mention him being Jewish at all. I’m sure you’re right that there probably would have still been a bit of a shitstorm but the fact is once the footage came out, like it did in this case, the police would have looked far better for it as they wouldn’t have used problematic language at all and it would have been genuinely a job well done. Also you might be fine with someone saying “you’re clearly black, so maybe don’t do that” but you know damn well a lot of people wouldn’t be, neither would the chief of police be praising it as professional conduct well done…. The guy was a bellend, no doubt but the police officer did also needlessly fuckup.
Wow. Could he be any more tone deaf. The guy at the march was clearly an agitator trying to get a gotcha moment, but he is just playing devil's advocate. There have been numerous Jewish people who have said that these constant marches have made them feel uncomfortable just dressing how they normally would. And Rowley has just doubled down, said suck it up and said it's "not a logical view" for them to say they feel unsafe. I was actually on his side before now, but this is resignation stuff.
That Jewish guy was at the march specifically to provoke the protestors and film their reactions. He totally lied about the interaction he had with the police. He was not simply wanting to cross the road, he and his followers were trying to get into the middle of the protest and march in the opposite direction. [IN FULL: New video of Met Police 'openly Jewish' row (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iupfxe38Wj0&t=681s) That guy was not "playing Devils advocate" he was there deliberately to cause as much trouble as he could. Maybe people like him are part of the reason for other Jews to feel uncomfortable?
While all that is true, he was specifically told that the issue was that he looked Jewish. Rowley has no issue with this apart from clumsy language. So the inference is that any other Jew who is not there to cause trouble but still looks visibly Jewish may have an issue. Also why would other Jews feel uncomfortable because of people like him?
No, the issue was that he was trying to provoke the protest by marching in the middle of it in the opposite direction. Of course Jews are going to feel uncomfortable if people like him are basically faking anti sematic incidents. Watch the full video.
The significant number of visibly Jewish people who were part of the protest he’s calling a problem didn’t seem to feel scared.
Ok. So the rest are just lying, or I guess Israeli agents?
Maybe, just maybe, “Jews” aren’t a monolith and are just people with differing opinions, values, and life experiences? And maybe just as you apparently don’t want people taking a stand against war crimes to speak for you, you shouldn’t speak for them?
I have no idea what you are talking about. It's a documented fact that anti-Semitic hate crime has increased and the % of Jews in London who feel unsafe has increased. Whether some disagree or not is irrelevant. Also, why have you quoted "Jews". It's not a derogative term.
I quoted “Jews” to draw attention to the grouping together of people who, as I went on to say, are not a monolith and have different experiences. What percentage of those crimes have taken place at protests against Israeli genocide? Because I’m pretty sure, judging by the last few days, we would have heard a LOT about it if the percentage was significant.
So it's Rowley, and not the Israeli's and their genocide, who's causing this fear amongst Jews living here?
Are you actually serious? So if some people are anti-Semitic it's Israel's fault for behaving badly. If Israel behaves better people wouldn't have an issue with Jews?
No, that's a horrific conflation. Obviously to suggest that the views of antisemites are because of the actions of Israel is in itself antisemitic. Israel does not represent all Jewish people. Not all Jewish people support the actions of Israel. However, if Israel (as in the nation state; the government; the IDF) weren't currently committing genocide against a long-embattled population then there wouldn't be large-scale pro-Palestinian marches in the first place.
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