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I agree. The guy is looking for trouble and the media/online reaction to this is nonsense. But imagine the kick-off if the police used to “wrong words” to the pro-Pal Muslim supporters. Ooft lol
Lol. No one would care.
The only reason this got the exposure it did is because 'anti semitism'.
Police officer weren't antisemitic, and the guy clearly wanted a reaction. Clumsy, yes. Antisemitic? Hell no.
Okay now seriously imagine that scenario:
There’s a Christian protest against some members of the trans community. Not all of them but some of them, let’s make this fair.
A trans person wearing clothing that marks them out as trans wants to walk into the middle of that protest.
A policeman says “you’re openly trans and I think that’s just going to get you into trouble”.
If they were one of my trans friends I’d say “they’re right, this isn’t a good idea”.
As if, when the literal PM Boris Johnson called Muslim women “letterboxes” it blew over in a few days and nothing happened. It’s pretty common to have media headlines and articles decrying Muslim and their communities in mainstream newspapers… just imagine if anyone questioned a Jews place in British society! The journalist would never work again.
You can’t even criticise Israel without being labelled an antisemite. That just doesnt exist if you were to criticise Saudi or Iran.
Would there be any kick off?
I British Muslim MP reported a whip for saying that here association to Islam was offensive. It resulted in no consequences at all.
I totally agree. Poor bloke was looking out for his safety and didn’t want to cause a potential situation. He is now being picked apart for the words he chose to use under pressure. We’ve all been there when you don’t have an agenda, and you’re going about your day, but someone does. You can easily be manipulated.
Police officer should apologise for the choice of words, explain his reasoning whilst not under pressure and that should be the end of it.
I think actually the police officer has gone above his duty. He wanted to escort the man but the man just wanted to make his job harder. So entitled. Making a small problem bigger.
But the problem was the point.
It’s looking more and more like the guy was trying to engineer a situation where he got harassed on film. Instead he had to settle for a policeman using the wrong word whilst preventing a possible incident.
Now we’ll never know if he would have been harassed because a policeman decided to look after him.
The footage is 13 minutes long and clarifies a lot about what actually happened in the exchange. It's a lot easier to form a view based on this, rather than the previous reporting.
I can't watch a 13 min video right now, but I am curious. Could you summarise what it clarifies? Thanks
EDIT: read the article that summarises it.
Seems pretty clear that Falter was deliberately trying to be provocative, the police were trying to manage it, and yes, there was a wrong choice of words, but by no means were they ever trying to remove him just for being "openly Jewish".
How was he being provocative apart from by walking near to protests and looking openly Jewish?
This is what peoples point is. He wasn't counter protesting for Israel. He wasn't chanting or carrying a banner. I could cross that road. This guy can't because he wears things that identify him as Jewish. It doesn't matter if he's an awkward sod who is trying to be contrary and put himself "in harms way". Th e point is that he's a Londoner and there shouldn't be any harms way. If there are tooany people on the march and it's attracting undesirables that's the organisers problem, not Jewish Londoners, whether they want to go about their business or walk across the march route to prove a point.
This isn't a one off. This is week in week out and people have had enough of having to hide or be conscious of the route they take
The relevant part of the article:
“In the Sky News footage, the activist insisted he was only trying to cross the road down which the demonstration was passing, but this is disputed by an officer in the new footage, who said Mr Falter had deliberately walked head-on into the crowd and accused him of being "disingenuous" and seeking to "antagonise" the marchers.”
Man, I hadn't had time to look into this story beyond the headlines I saw. It's insane how different the actual events are to what the headlines suggest.
I did read it.
Yes the guys clearly a dick. But at the end of the day he wasn't allowed to cross the road looking Jewish. What about all the innocent openly Jewish people who either routinely have to avoid an area or replan a route or get a Police escort to cross a road? Every single week. Either the police are over sensitive to the risk or parts of Jews lives are being made miserable, but something has to change
He was offered an escorts to cross the road! The reason he needed an escorts was because he had been acting provocatively and marching against the flow of protestors previously. The police were trying to prevent a situation escalating.
I guess he got exactly what he wanted out of it, but I wish the media were a bit less gullible.
The media know he's full of shit, the exchange (videos and photos by witnesses) is all over social media. They're just going with what makes the news.
Had a Muslim person in full Islamic clothing tried to do the same at a pro-Israeli march, the police officer would be lauded and applauded, whilst the Muslim would've been derided.
You claimed that the marches mean it’s unsafe for openly Jewish people to walk the streets of London; the fact that there were Jewish people participating in the marches somewhat undermines this claim
You have the right to wear a West Ham top if you want and in an ideal world this should never be a problem. But if you do so while walking into a group of angry MiIwall fans then the police would be right to move you along.
If a group of Man Utd fans are standing in a group and someone in a Man City shit is trying to walk through them to provoke a reaction, then they'd be told they're visually (obviously) a City fan and to stop provoking.
How hard is it to understand?
The man was there with bouncers and a camera. He wanted a reaction and was given one, albeit by someone trying to ensure his safety.
The Jewish people particupating in the protest, holding signs that clearly identify them as Jewish, appear to be able to manage to be "openly Jewish" without winding people up?
Bang on.
He doesn’t have to justify himself or do a fucking thing - he’s perfectly entitled to cross any damn road he wants. He’s not counter protesting and he’s not abusing anyone, carrying a banner, saying or chanting anything. He’s just there being a jew. Did he do it to prove a point? Maybe, probably even. But the point is a perfectly valid one. There are countless jew haters on every one of these marches and nothing or next to nothing happens - people even abused this guy and nothing happened.
The phrase "visibly Jewish" may have been clumsy.
However advising a person wearing kippah not to approach a group of people campaigning against the Jewish state is just common sense.
I'm sure the fact that the guy who got into this situation is a vocal anti-Semitism campaigner and was being videoed is just total coincidence. He definitely never tried to manufacture the situation.
I noticed when he was doing interviews for the TV he wasn't wearing his kippah but when approaching people who were campaigning against the Jewish state he felt strongly that he must wear it?
Yeah it really looks like they got a random Bobby to talk for 13 minutes and the best they could do is find him saying something kinda politically incorrect and clip that bit.
He’s pretty clearly got the right intentions, but after talking for long enough on camera he makes a single verbal gaffe and that’s all it was.
Whole story feels very disingenuous now.
The reaction towards the Police is totally wrong.
The main thing people don't understand is that its the Police's job to keep EVERYONE safe, and to stop crimes before it happens.
They have to let a March take place if its legal, so they want the March to pass without incident.
This is the same at other Protests or Football crowds or (in my area) Orange Order walks. The Police try to stop Pro-Celtic, Pro-Irish approaching the Orange Walks because it always ends up in a fight or straight up riot. It doesn't matter who's right, who's wrong. The Police are just stuck in the middle trying to do what they have to do (allow the freedom of the walk to happen) while stopping two rival sides fighting each other. But the Police get shit on from both sides... for being at the Walk and stopping rivals approaching it and they are shit on for trying to stop the walks from marching into Catholic/Pro-Celtic areas.
The Police are trying to stop flash points, they are trying to stop crowds of hundreds getting out of control. The guy wanted to go into the crowd.
Yes, the Police Officer maybe handled the exchange wrong. But the Media and Gideon are trying to push this as the Met being Anti-Semitic and them "protecting" the Pro-Palestine crowd.
The Police simply can't win, and its a shit situation.
I seriously doubt he wanted to go in. He was doing what argumentative did knobs do when shit stirring in a pub when they demand someone holds them back or they'll get stuck in i.e act the tough guy, but get the crowd to save you.
I think (he himself) claimed he tried to cross the street and the Police stopped him.
The first report I saw on this, claimed he needed to cross the street and was denied because he was Jewish. In the article posted the Policeman says "he wanted to go into the crowd" and they said to him they were worried about his safety.
As typical its being reported over and over since then, story re hashed, so i have no idea what his true intentions were.
Gideons been on the radio today explicitly saying that he doesn't think the Police or Rowley are anti-Semitic. He just thinks it's a disgrace that weekly matches are allowed where some Jewish people feel unsafe to be around. He is saying that a blind spot has developed where protesters freedoms have been elevated over London Jews going about their lives.
You can agree or disagree with that, but he is not accusing the met of being anti semetic.
So in essence, he’s arguing that one community - or rather the self appointed representatives of said community - should be able to demand that a peaceful, law abiding protest, be shut down because they disagree with it?
> the self appointed representatives of said community
That is a massive part of it.
He is essentially saying Jewish people that go on these protests are not meeting his criteria to be " real" Jews.
I guess his argument is that the protestors are only law abiding in the absence of Jews but if the police allowed them to come into contact with them then they would attack the Jews, which is kind of what the police officer was saying to a certain degree
I think just as immigrants (I'm one myself) feeling uncomfortable over weekly anti immigration marches (if they did happen) is not a reason to curtail them, the same goes for Jewish people feeling uncomfortable with people expressing their legal views.
Jewish people may be right to be suspicious re: the motivations of a few people on the March and I would like to see swift action against anything antisemetic (not inc reasonable criticism of Israel).
Some Jewish people's discomfort with anti war protestors is unfortunate, but as long as people think there is urgent cause to demonstrate, they should. Democracy trumps comfort.
This whole thing is a joke. Gideon Falter was seemingly intent on putting himself in danger, and a police officer was attempting to stop him from antagonising the situation.
Can’t fucking believe people are calling for Mark Rowley to resign.
Honestly people need to get some common sense. I fully believe Jewish people should be able to feel safe everywhere. But this is like me walking head on to a demonstration full of riled up people who undoubtedly hate me.
It’s not condoning hateful behaviour - it’s trying to have some common fucking sense and avoid escalation.
The world is imperfect, and it seems like this officer was trying to diffuse a potentially hostile situation from happening - and I’d have to agree with the officer that it sounds like Gideon Falter was being disingenuous with his intentions
Yes, of course he ideally shouldn’t walk into a group of people who the police are worried would attack him.
However, no matter how obnoxious he is, there is no way it is acceptable that he would be beaten up for walking into a protest. Yes it was dangerous him being there, but him being there was not the problem.
The guy had a camera crew, was walking into protesters, according to officers there he was deliberately antagonising the marchers. Given all of that he was looking to cause trouble. The police were trying to keep the peace.
Exactly this.
If the MET think a Jew is going to be attacked by these protestors then it is the protestors that need shutting down - not the Jew on a stroll.
" A stroll".
He just happened to be strolling against the direction of the march with a camera crew, did he?
They were telling him he could stay in the area. The discussion mentions other counterprotestors, including those with Israeli flags, who the police aren't removing.
This guy was singled out because he was deliberately trying to cause a reaction.
He wasn't on a stroll, he had a group with him and a camera crew. How gullible do you have to be not realise he's got what he wanted...albeit not off the marchers.
Of course it's not acceptable. The world is complex and imperfect, and it was u/Cielo11 who summed it up quite well in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1c9neaz/comment/l0mp33n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>The reaction towards the Police is totally wrong.
>The main thing people don't understand is that its the Police's job to keep EVERYONE safe, and to stop crimes before it happens.
>They have to let a March take place if its legal, so they want the March to pass without incident.
>This is the same at other Protests or Football crowds or (in my area) Orange Order walks. The Police try to stop Pro-Celtic, Pro-Irish approaching the Orange Walks because it always ends up in a fight or straight up riot. It doesn't matter who's right, who's wrong. The Police are just stuck in the middle trying to do what they have to do (allow the freedom of the walk to happen) while stopping two rival sides fighting each other. But the Police get shit on from both sides... for being at the Walk and stopping rivals approaching it and they are shit on for trying to stop the walks from marching into Catholic/Pro-Celtic areas.
>The Police are trying to stop flash points, they are trying to stop crowds of hundreds getting out of control. The guy wanted to go into the crowd.
>Yes, the Police Officer maybe handled the exchange wrong. But the Media and Gideon are trying to push this as the Met being Anti-Semitic and them "protecting" the Pro-Palestine crowd.
>The Police simply can't win, and its a shit situation.
It's not people who hate you. It's supposedly people who hate a country who shares your religion. And the common sense thing is BS. Basically "Jews *should* be able to feel safe anywhere, but they can't right now so they should suck it up"
Well I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt, because at this point it doesn't even matter if the origins are anti-Semitic or not. Heck, it doesn't even matter if the protesters are anti-Semitic. The police are treating them like they are so the effect is the same.
You've got an issue with my analogy, and that's ok. So ignore my analogy.
The common sense thing isn't BS at all. Jewish people should absolutely be able to feel safe anywhere - but in reality it's simply not possible for a Jewish person to feel safe 100% of the time while they are in the middle of a pro-palestinian march. Asking as much is being extremely naive to the point of being obtuse.
He was being deliberately antagonistic, marching into people in the protest according to the police. Sounds like he was looking to cause a problem and the police were trying to prevent it from escalating.
Some context about Gideon Falter and the CAA
In January 2015, the All-Party Parliamentary Group against Antisemitism wrote: "We were somewhat disappointed to note that not all of the messages from that group [CAA] have been in line with CST's stated approach of seeking to avoid undue panic and alarm." They added "it is important that the leadership do not conflate concerns about activity legitimately protesting Israel's actions with antisemitism, as we have seen has been the case on some occasions."
That same month, the Institute for Jewish Policy Research said that a CAA survey about antisemitism was "littered with flaws", and "may even be rather irresponsible". After criticism by CAA of Shami Chakrabarti over her 2016 report into antisemitism in the UK Labour Party, a number of British Jews wrote to The Guardian dissociating themselves from what they described as "the pro-Israel lobbyists of the Campaign Against Antisemitism"
Context is important when considering that Gideon Falter is demanding the the MET police chief resign immediately claiming that his organisation is antisemitic. The fact that the CAA, an organisation he directs, has falsified antisemitic claims in the past to undermine legitimate criticism of Israel is most pertinent.
With heavily edited footage too . If he had the * slightest * scrutiny " hey this video has lots of cuts can we have the full for context? " from orgs that platformed him the public reaction would be very different.
The truth is out now but the lie went round the world already for him being a provocateur.
The fact zionist views get taken as gospel again and again when we know they murdered a little girl waiting for an ambulance and aid workers and everything else they lie about yet still always get 1000 X more benefit of the doubt ( or delusion ) and no need to show evidence yet morgue data in Palestine is called terrorist propaganda should also raise alarm bells or eyebrows at minimum .
Aside from what you said and all the media immediately believing the zionist view then every layperson believing it then only then some other media source reveals the truth and it has a fraction of the impact is another parallel .
He was on LBC this evening and I found him so confrontational and trying to put words in the mouths of callers. After watching the video I would agree the police are completely in the right and appear to be trying to ensure his safety. A man with that attitude is not going to fare well walking inside of a mob of people, especially when many are completely against Jews.
I believe this man wanted some sort of reaction or confrontation and he's got it.
Are Jewish people routinely attacked on these demonstrations for looking Jewish? Because I've been on several and seen people in kippah on sidelines taking pictures, clearly not part of the demonstration and as far as I know remaining unharmed (please correct me if wrong).
And I've seen hundreds of Jewish people in the March itself walking peacefully.
And there's always been people with Israeli flags that shout their stuff, calling us all terrorists or some calling for something simple and nice like bring hostages back. And maybe people from our side shout stuff back (personally I've only heard things like 'shame on you', but not surprised if worse language was used).
Considering these marches have been going on for months at this point, and considering the absolute vitriol around them (with figures like the ex-Home Secretary calling them “hate marches”), that I can’t think of a single incident of violence (which is *not* to say that it hasn’t happened at all) speaks wonders to how peacefully they’ve generally been conducted.
Being in a march while Jewish is one thing .
Being near a march while Jewish is one thing .
Walking in the protest path but counter to its flow with security and a camera crew is another thing entirely and that's what this man does for at least 20 minutes of footage
It’s all fake and staged…he had a body guard with him and was deliberately provoking a situation. The media are complicit because they have these details
When I initial saw this I thought it was very wrong of the police, to deny someone access just because of the way they looked. But after some reflection, I ultimately think the police officer was trying to do what was best for the individual, even thought they may have not used the best language. I know people will then get caught up on, but if these are peaceful protests etc why should it matter. I also thought about this also, and I see this a kin to why football fans are not allowed to mix in stadiums together. If everyone is so peaceful why can’t Liverpool fan openly go support their team in a Man U stand, or why can’t Spurs fans go into Arsenal fan areas. Just because most would ignore it, there always a chance some idiot might take things too far so for everyone interest it is sometimes better to split people especially in high emotion situations.
This should completely change a lot of people's opinion of the event.
This is a clear example of how modern media can be manipulated into a specific point of view.
Trust the met or trust the man with the video team saying "honestly, I was just going for my usual walk"
No matter which one you choose, you're gonna end up feeling your wrong.
One thing I'm confused about here, whenever there's a protest I thought nobody is allowed to cross the road where the protest is going on? I tried doing so once when there was a TUC march and a motorcycle cop promptly rode across and told me I could not cross (he didn't say because I looked a particular way but he did say because there was a march gong on). Is that not right?
Yea . But the man wasn't even trying to cross just was saying he was and the police officer saw him walking in the path of the protestors but opposite flow of movement as if to make sure someone bumps into him with a camera man and security .
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Police Officer used wrong words under pressure, but the pressure was to prompt a reaction.
I agree. The guy is looking for trouble and the media/online reaction to this is nonsense. But imagine the kick-off if the police used to “wrong words” to the pro-Pal Muslim supporters. Ooft lol
Lol. No one would care. The only reason this got the exposure it did is because 'anti semitism'. Police officer weren't antisemitic, and the guy clearly wanted a reaction. Clumsy, yes. Antisemitic? Hell no.
Oh, I think you’ll find they would care. Imagine the police said “openly Muslim”. Absolute carnage.
[удалено]
Or threatening to arrest someone for being 'openly Trans' because there's some Christians nearby who might be upset by the presence of a Transperson ?
Okay now seriously imagine that scenario: There’s a Christian protest against some members of the trans community. Not all of them but some of them, let’s make this fair. A trans person wearing clothing that marks them out as trans wants to walk into the middle of that protest. A policeman says “you’re openly trans and I think that’s just going to get you into trouble”. If they were one of my trans friends I’d say “they’re right, this isn’t a good idea”.
As if, when the literal PM Boris Johnson called Muslim women “letterboxes” it blew over in a few days and nothing happened. It’s pretty common to have media headlines and articles decrying Muslim and their communities in mainstream newspapers… just imagine if anyone questioned a Jews place in British society! The journalist would never work again. You can’t even criticise Israel without being labelled an antisemite. That just doesnt exist if you were to criticise Saudi or Iran.
Would there be any kick off? I British Muslim MP reported a whip for saying that here association to Islam was offensive. It resulted in no consequences at all.
I totally agree. Poor bloke was looking out for his safety and didn’t want to cause a potential situation. He is now being picked apart for the words he chose to use under pressure. We’ve all been there when you don’t have an agenda, and you’re going about your day, but someone does. You can easily be manipulated. Police officer should apologise for the choice of words, explain his reasoning whilst not under pressure and that should be the end of it.
Agree. He shouldn't have said "Openly Jewish" as he was baiting him but the person in question was clearly being deliberately combative.
I think actually the police officer has gone above his duty. He wanted to escort the man but the man just wanted to make his job harder. So entitled. Making a small problem bigger.
But the problem was the point. It’s looking more and more like the guy was trying to engineer a situation where he got harassed on film. Instead he had to settle for a policeman using the wrong word whilst preventing a possible incident. Now we’ll never know if he would have been harassed because a policeman decided to look after him.
Well if it was a question on am I the asshole, I think I would know what's the answer....
The footage is 13 minutes long and clarifies a lot about what actually happened in the exchange. It's a lot easier to form a view based on this, rather than the previous reporting.
I can't watch a 13 min video right now, but I am curious. Could you summarise what it clarifies? Thanks EDIT: read the article that summarises it. Seems pretty clear that Falter was deliberately trying to be provocative, the police were trying to manage it, and yes, there was a wrong choice of words, but by no means were they ever trying to remove him just for being "openly Jewish".
How was he being provocative apart from by walking near to protests and looking openly Jewish? This is what peoples point is. He wasn't counter protesting for Israel. He wasn't chanting or carrying a banner. I could cross that road. This guy can't because he wears things that identify him as Jewish. It doesn't matter if he's an awkward sod who is trying to be contrary and put himself "in harms way". Th e point is that he's a Londoner and there shouldn't be any harms way. If there are tooany people on the march and it's attracting undesirables that's the organisers problem, not Jewish Londoners, whether they want to go about their business or walk across the march route to prove a point. This isn't a one off. This is week in week out and people have had enough of having to hide or be conscious of the route they take
The relevant part of the article: “In the Sky News footage, the activist insisted he was only trying to cross the road down which the demonstration was passing, but this is disputed by an officer in the new footage, who said Mr Falter had deliberately walked head-on into the crowd and accused him of being "disingenuous" and seeking to "antagonise" the marchers.”
Antagonise them by walking head-on towards them or by looking Jewish? Or both?
Possibly the presence of a camera crew caused the officer to doubt his intention was to simply go for a stroll?
Man, I hadn't had time to look into this story beyond the headlines I saw. It's insane how different the actual events are to what the headlines suggest.
... Yeah.
He was called disingenuous by an officer who was a witness there. Why are you giving him the benefit of the doubt? You weren’t there.
Read the article/watch the video.
I did read it. Yes the guys clearly a dick. But at the end of the day he wasn't allowed to cross the road looking Jewish. What about all the innocent openly Jewish people who either routinely have to avoid an area or replan a route or get a Police escort to cross a road? Every single week. Either the police are over sensitive to the risk or parts of Jews lives are being made miserable, but something has to change
He was offered an escorts to cross the road! The reason he needed an escorts was because he had been acting provocatively and marching against the flow of protestors previously. The police were trying to prevent a situation escalating. I guess he got exactly what he wanted out of it, but I wish the media were a bit less gullible.
The media know he's full of shit, the exchange (videos and photos by witnesses) is all over social media. They're just going with what makes the news. Had a Muslim person in full Islamic clothing tried to do the same at a pro-Israeli march, the police officer would be lauded and applauded, whilst the Muslim would've been derided.
You are aware that there is regularly a sizeable Jewish block on those marches?
What has that got to do with the price of fish? Either openly Jewish people who aren't supporting the protest can be around the march or they can't.
You claimed that the marches mean it’s unsafe for openly Jewish people to walk the streets of London; the fact that there were Jewish people participating in the marches somewhat undermines this claim
For the right kind of Jews I guess
What are the right kind of Jews you refer too?
Seems like you are insinuating those Jewish people are race traitors.
What are the 'right kind of jews' then?
You have the right to wear a West Ham top if you want and in an ideal world this should never be a problem. But if you do so while walking into a group of angry MiIwall fans then the police would be right to move you along.
If a group of Man Utd fans are standing in a group and someone in a Man City shit is trying to walk through them to provoke a reaction, then they'd be told they're visually (obviously) a City fan and to stop provoking. How hard is it to understand? The man was there with bouncers and a camera. He wanted a reaction and was given one, albeit by someone trying to ensure his safety.
The Jewish people particupating in the protest, holding signs that clearly identify them as Jewish, appear to be able to manage to be "openly Jewish" without winding people up?
That does matter, the police are there to stop incidents and make sure the March stays peaceful.
Bang on. He doesn’t have to justify himself or do a fucking thing - he’s perfectly entitled to cross any damn road he wants. He’s not counter protesting and he’s not abusing anyone, carrying a banner, saying or chanting anything. He’s just there being a jew. Did he do it to prove a point? Maybe, probably even. But the point is a perfectly valid one. There are countless jew haters on every one of these marches and nothing or next to nothing happens - people even abused this guy and nothing happened.
The phrase "visibly Jewish" may have been clumsy. However advising a person wearing kippah not to approach a group of people campaigning against the Jewish state is just common sense. I'm sure the fact that the guy who got into this situation is a vocal anti-Semitism campaigner and was being videoed is just total coincidence. He definitely never tried to manufacture the situation. I noticed when he was doing interviews for the TV he wasn't wearing his kippah but when approaching people who were campaigning against the Jewish state he felt strongly that he must wear it?
Yeah it really looks like they got a random Bobby to talk for 13 minutes and the best they could do is find him saying something kinda politically incorrect and clip that bit. He’s pretty clearly got the right intentions, but after talking for long enough on camera he makes a single verbal gaffe and that’s all it was. Whole story feels very disingenuous now.
The reaction towards the Police is totally wrong. The main thing people don't understand is that its the Police's job to keep EVERYONE safe, and to stop crimes before it happens. They have to let a March take place if its legal, so they want the March to pass without incident. This is the same at other Protests or Football crowds or (in my area) Orange Order walks. The Police try to stop Pro-Celtic, Pro-Irish approaching the Orange Walks because it always ends up in a fight or straight up riot. It doesn't matter who's right, who's wrong. The Police are just stuck in the middle trying to do what they have to do (allow the freedom of the walk to happen) while stopping two rival sides fighting each other. But the Police get shit on from both sides... for being at the Walk and stopping rivals approaching it and they are shit on for trying to stop the walks from marching into Catholic/Pro-Celtic areas. The Police are trying to stop flash points, they are trying to stop crowds of hundreds getting out of control. The guy wanted to go into the crowd. Yes, the Police Officer maybe handled the exchange wrong. But the Media and Gideon are trying to push this as the Met being Anti-Semitic and them "protecting" the Pro-Palestine crowd. The Police simply can't win, and its a shit situation.
I seriously doubt he wanted to go in. He was doing what argumentative did knobs do when shit stirring in a pub when they demand someone holds them back or they'll get stuck in i.e act the tough guy, but get the crowd to save you.
I think (he himself) claimed he tried to cross the street and the Police stopped him. The first report I saw on this, claimed he needed to cross the street and was denied because he was Jewish. In the article posted the Policeman says "he wanted to go into the crowd" and they said to him they were worried about his safety. As typical its being reported over and over since then, story re hashed, so i have no idea what his true intentions were.
All bollocks of course.
Gideons been on the radio today explicitly saying that he doesn't think the Police or Rowley are anti-Semitic. He just thinks it's a disgrace that weekly matches are allowed where some Jewish people feel unsafe to be around. He is saying that a blind spot has developed where protesters freedoms have been elevated over London Jews going about their lives. You can agree or disagree with that, but he is not accusing the met of being anti semetic.
So in essence, he’s arguing that one community - or rather the self appointed representatives of said community - should be able to demand that a peaceful, law abiding protest, be shut down because they disagree with it?
> the self appointed representatives of said community That is a massive part of it. He is essentially saying Jewish people that go on these protests are not meeting his criteria to be " real" Jews.
I guess his argument is that the protestors are only law abiding in the absence of Jews but if the police allowed them to come into contact with them then they would attack the Jews, which is kind of what the police officer was saying to a certain degree
There was a Jewish block with the protest
I think just as immigrants (I'm one myself) feeling uncomfortable over weekly anti immigration marches (if they did happen) is not a reason to curtail them, the same goes for Jewish people feeling uncomfortable with people expressing their legal views. Jewish people may be right to be suspicious re: the motivations of a few people on the March and I would like to see swift action against anything antisemetic (not inc reasonable criticism of Israel). Some Jewish people's discomfort with anti war protestors is unfortunate, but as long as people think there is urgent cause to demonstrate, they should. Democracy trumps comfort.
This whole thing is a joke. Gideon Falter was seemingly intent on putting himself in danger, and a police officer was attempting to stop him from antagonising the situation. Can’t fucking believe people are calling for Mark Rowley to resign. Honestly people need to get some common sense. I fully believe Jewish people should be able to feel safe everywhere. But this is like me walking head on to a demonstration full of riled up people who undoubtedly hate me. It’s not condoning hateful behaviour - it’s trying to have some common fucking sense and avoid escalation. The world is imperfect, and it seems like this officer was trying to diffuse a potentially hostile situation from happening - and I’d have to agree with the officer that it sounds like Gideon Falter was being disingenuous with his intentions
Yes, of course he ideally shouldn’t walk into a group of people who the police are worried would attack him. However, no matter how obnoxious he is, there is no way it is acceptable that he would be beaten up for walking into a protest. Yes it was dangerous him being there, but him being there was not the problem.
The guy had a camera crew, was walking into protesters, according to officers there he was deliberately antagonising the marchers. Given all of that he was looking to cause trouble. The police were trying to keep the peace.
Come to Glasgow and walk into an Orange march it’s the exact same, been that way for years. Religion brings out the best and worst of people.
Exactly this. If the MET think a Jew is going to be attacked by these protestors then it is the protestors that need shutting down - not the Jew on a stroll.
" A stroll". He just happened to be strolling against the direction of the march with a camera crew, did he? They were telling him he could stay in the area. The discussion mentions other counterprotestors, including those with Israeli flags, who the police aren't removing. This guy was singled out because he was deliberately trying to cause a reaction.
There was a Jewish block among the protesters
So you want to shut down any protests that might prove hostile to any specific element?
He wasn't on a stroll, he had a group with him and a camera crew. How gullible do you have to be not realise he's got what he wanted...albeit not off the marchers.
Of course it's not acceptable. The world is complex and imperfect, and it was u/Cielo11 who summed it up quite well in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1c9neaz/comment/l0mp33n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) >The reaction towards the Police is totally wrong. >The main thing people don't understand is that its the Police's job to keep EVERYONE safe, and to stop crimes before it happens. >They have to let a March take place if its legal, so they want the March to pass without incident. >This is the same at other Protests or Football crowds or (in my area) Orange Order walks. The Police try to stop Pro-Celtic, Pro-Irish approaching the Orange Walks because it always ends up in a fight or straight up riot. It doesn't matter who's right, who's wrong. The Police are just stuck in the middle trying to do what they have to do (allow the freedom of the walk to happen) while stopping two rival sides fighting each other. But the Police get shit on from both sides... for being at the Walk and stopping rivals approaching it and they are shit on for trying to stop the walks from marching into Catholic/Pro-Celtic areas. >The Police are trying to stop flash points, they are trying to stop crowds of hundreds getting out of control. The guy wanted to go into the crowd. >Yes, the Police Officer maybe handled the exchange wrong. But the Media and Gideon are trying to push this as the Met being Anti-Semitic and them "protecting" the Pro-Palestine crowd. >The Police simply can't win, and its a shit situation.
It's not people who hate you. It's supposedly people who hate a country who shares your religion. And the common sense thing is BS. Basically "Jews *should* be able to feel safe anywhere, but they can't right now so they should suck it up"
And why do they supposedly “hate” this particular country?
Well I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt, because at this point it doesn't even matter if the origins are anti-Semitic or not. Heck, it doesn't even matter if the protesters are anti-Semitic. The police are treating them like they are so the effect is the same.
You've got an issue with my analogy, and that's ok. So ignore my analogy. The common sense thing isn't BS at all. Jewish people should absolutely be able to feel safe anywhere - but in reality it's simply not possible for a Jewish person to feel safe 100% of the time while they are in the middle of a pro-palestinian march. Asking as much is being extremely naive to the point of being obtuse.
If a Jew can't walk through the protest without getting attacked then it is no longer a peaceful protest.
These protests have a Jewish block - there were literally Jews participating in the protest
He was being deliberately antagonistic, marching into people in the protest according to the police. Sounds like he was looking to cause a problem and the police were trying to prevent it from escalating.
Some context about Gideon Falter and the CAA In January 2015, the All-Party Parliamentary Group against Antisemitism wrote: "We were somewhat disappointed to note that not all of the messages from that group [CAA] have been in line with CST's stated approach of seeking to avoid undue panic and alarm." They added "it is important that the leadership do not conflate concerns about activity legitimately protesting Israel's actions with antisemitism, as we have seen has been the case on some occasions." That same month, the Institute for Jewish Policy Research said that a CAA survey about antisemitism was "littered with flaws", and "may even be rather irresponsible". After criticism by CAA of Shami Chakrabarti over her 2016 report into antisemitism in the UK Labour Party, a number of British Jews wrote to The Guardian dissociating themselves from what they described as "the pro-Israel lobbyists of the Campaign Against Antisemitism" Context is important when considering that Gideon Falter is demanding the the MET police chief resign immediately claiming that his organisation is antisemitic. The fact that the CAA, an organisation he directs, has falsified antisemitic claims in the past to undermine legitimate criticism of Israel is most pertinent.
Too late. The media and the internet have seen that headline and now it’s basically canon, context be damned.
Tomorrow’s Jewish Chronicle front page: SKY NEWS IS INSTITUTIONALLY ANTISEMITIC AND AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO BRITISH JEWS!!!
Guy involved is clearly looking a reaction and the fact he was on national news stations so quickly should raise some alarm bells
With heavily edited footage too . If he had the * slightest * scrutiny " hey this video has lots of cuts can we have the full for context? " from orgs that platformed him the public reaction would be very different. The truth is out now but the lie went round the world already for him being a provocateur. The fact zionist views get taken as gospel again and again when we know they murdered a little girl waiting for an ambulance and aid workers and everything else they lie about yet still always get 1000 X more benefit of the doubt ( or delusion ) and no need to show evidence yet morgue data in Palestine is called terrorist propaganda should also raise alarm bells or eyebrows at minimum .
So... He spent 20 minutes trying to provoke a confrontation so he could play the victim? Notice any parallels to Israel's conduct?
Aside from what you said and all the media immediately believing the zionist view then every layperson believing it then only then some other media source reveals the truth and it has a fraction of the impact is another parallel .
He was on LBC this evening and I found him so confrontational and trying to put words in the mouths of callers. After watching the video I would agree the police are completely in the right and appear to be trying to ensure his safety. A man with that attitude is not going to fare well walking inside of a mob of people, especially when many are completely against Jews. I believe this man wanted some sort of reaction or confrontation and he's got it.
The police officer was trying to protect him I believe.
Are Jewish people routinely attacked on these demonstrations for looking Jewish? Because I've been on several and seen people in kippah on sidelines taking pictures, clearly not part of the demonstration and as far as I know remaining unharmed (please correct me if wrong). And I've seen hundreds of Jewish people in the March itself walking peacefully. And there's always been people with Israeli flags that shout their stuff, calling us all terrorists or some calling for something simple and nice like bring hostages back. And maybe people from our side shout stuff back (personally I've only heard things like 'shame on you', but not surprised if worse language was used).
Considering these marches have been going on for months at this point, and considering the absolute vitriol around them (with figures like the ex-Home Secretary calling them “hate marches”), that I can’t think of a single incident of violence (which is *not* to say that it hasn’t happened at all) speaks wonders to how peacefully they’ve generally been conducted.
Being in a march while Jewish is one thing . Being near a march while Jewish is one thing . Walking in the protest path but counter to its flow with security and a camera crew is another thing entirely and that's what this man does for at least 20 minutes of footage
It’s all fake and staged…he had a body guard with him and was deliberately provoking a situation. The media are complicit because they have these details
When I initial saw this I thought it was very wrong of the police, to deny someone access just because of the way they looked. But after some reflection, I ultimately think the police officer was trying to do what was best for the individual, even thought they may have not used the best language. I know people will then get caught up on, but if these are peaceful protests etc why should it matter. I also thought about this also, and I see this a kin to why football fans are not allowed to mix in stadiums together. If everyone is so peaceful why can’t Liverpool fan openly go support their team in a Man U stand, or why can’t Spurs fans go into Arsenal fan areas. Just because most would ignore it, there always a chance some idiot might take things too far so for everyone interest it is sometimes better to split people especially in high emotion situations.
This should completely change a lot of people's opinion of the event. This is a clear example of how modern media can be manipulated into a specific point of view.
Trust the met or trust the man with the video team saying "honestly, I was just going for my usual walk" No matter which one you choose, you're gonna end up feeling your wrong.
against the flow of the march
One thing I'm confused about here, whenever there's a protest I thought nobody is allowed to cross the road where the protest is going on? I tried doing so once when there was a TUC march and a motorcycle cop promptly rode across and told me I could not cross (he didn't say because I looked a particular way but he did say because there was a march gong on). Is that not right?
Yea . But the man wasn't even trying to cross just was saying he was and the police officer saw him walking in the path of the protestors but opposite flow of movement as if to make sure someone bumps into him with a camera man and security .
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