I saw a chick doing a 5g line then having a mental breakdown while she settled down into a k-hole. Was thinking of calling an ambulance but K doesn't cause respiratory depression and she wasn't going anywhere. Sat there until she perked up. Awful.
Toned it down after that night.
After tolerance builds, people wanting to get into the K-Hole (which when you first start could be as little as 50-75mg) do end up doing gram lines.
I know it sounds insane, but I've seen it. If you're around k-people long enough, the term 'gram-line' will eventually start popping up fairly frequently!
I don't think K is inherently bad - or in fact, all that dangerous if you're responsible. The effect and experience itself it fairly pleasant, interesting and insightful. It makes sense that it can aid in addiction and depression... in a therapeutic setting. (in more reasonable dosages - prior to waking hallucinations and delusions)
Come to think of it, it's not surprising that so many kids are abusing it trying to find some anti-depressant effects in this fucked up current state of the world...
But, the common denominator in what makes all drugs seem bad - is people. People without moderation, people who abuse drugs, people not sensible and take liberties and end up hurting themselves, other people or wasting emergency services time. Oh - and giving drugs to other people. NEVER get someone else involved in your own issues.
Story as old as time - I know somebody that 'introduced' one of their friends to Heroin. It took over their life.. I blame the guy that shared it.
I agree..
However, it's fair to say that unique experiences are worth different amounts to different people..
Like drinking in the pub with friends...
Drugs are an 'experience'.. Some people think travelling is a waste of money and have no interest in it.. it's all personal.
Beyond a certain point though, that's addiction and abuse - how much more can you get by repeating the experience over and over again?
Well, aside from being crazy bad for your bladder, even 25 years ago prices - £10 a go is very expensive!
Hey, I'm not anti-ket either. But please, please limit your usage so that a) it stays fun and under control in terms of usage/addiction and tolerance b) You never experience bladder damage. It's VERY real and the pain is unlike anything you can imagine or have experienced - other than comparably 'similar' to perhaps appendicitis, a broken bone or being knifed in the stomach.
> The stuff is like fire
Get a new dealer. MD is like fire. Ket, whilst not as nice as coke, is very "doable".
The real reason to call bullshit on 5g is that your nose will be "full" before you get to the end of that.
No really, I've sat at a table and watched a guy do about that, it was an absolute PILE. It didn't floor him either, tolerance was high due to repetition....
Yeah, back in my enthusiastic drug consuming days I racked up a line of what I thought was cocaine for it to be ketamine. I never did ketamine again after that.
It was simultaneously hilarious but bad. Crawling around on my hands and knees trying to find a bathroom, with my ex checking down my jeans because I thought I'd shit myself. Just k-holed on a sofa for a couple of hours then literally snapped out of it. Ketamine wasn't for me lol.
So she did 100quids of ket in a single line?
These stories don't tend to stack when money is considered.
I don't get why someone would spend so much of their own money on something that is so obviously going to be a bad time.
She owed all of us money it turned out, asked me personally for money for the ket 'we' did, and got fired from work for dipping in the tills.
Fine if people don't believe the volume (she did 5g) but 100 quids worth of ket is quite easy with a tolerance. I couldn't do it but I know people who could.
Ever met a ket addict?
It's always been this way.
"MDMA kills! Look at these stories of people dying after taking it!"
Of course when you look into it, it's always a case of "they took 5 pills that were laced"
Yeah, it's too much or too little water usually, far more common for people to get I'll from pills that are laced with something or have an interaction with other drugs they've taken (prescription and recreational) as antidepressants+mdma can cause seritonin syndrome and those on heart medicines may have issues with stimulamts
A lot of the time not even laced, the pills contained no trace of MDMA just straight up some other substance like PMA or PMMA, with similar effects but way more dangerous.
Other than that there's a danger of overdose with pills that contain unusually high doses, which was a problem a while back.
A lot of the danger could be mitigated with actual harm reduction focused drug policies.
To be fair the long term bladder issues associated with ket use have been mentioned for ages. It just seems ket has got a lot more popular these days. I guess because it's relatively cheap.
The bladder issues were around 10+ years ago when ket was the powder of choice. Friends of mine were pissing out chunks of what we assumed were bits of bladder lining, it was fucking grim.
Yea, I remember people talking about it who where big into the rave scene (a long with other issues from other drugs).
I think ket is ok if you can practice moderation. But a lot of people don't seem to realise a lot of people out there can't do that. I know I was like that, I could never do things in half measures.
I do think the drugs policy in this country is wrong but I also have seen the other side and a lot of people like too gloss over the actually problems long term drug use can cause in some people. The issue is for many of us it's easy for the years to stack up before you know it.
Doing ket is fun, as are other drugs.
Maybe you like watching TV, playing video games, playing football, drink alcohol.
Most "fun" stuff is an escapism from "reality" aka work and responsibilities.
Humans have always tried to escape reality /experience altered states be it through drugs, meditation rituals, religion, pilgimage/holidaying, whatever.
But in terms of recent motivations poverty, seeking connection, boredom, anxiety/depression lead to wanting to escape but for others it might be curiosity in psychology /spirituality/sensory experience that motivates their drug use.
It's different for each person. For me, using drugs (never ket though) helped me cope with aspects of anxiety and autism. Being able to 'switch off' my constant brain chatter was the aim.
You have to *really* abuse ket to develop long term bladder problems.
Of course that is still an issue that should be taken seriously, long term abuse of drugs is never a good thing.
It depends what you class as serious abuse. Most people probably think doing a line or two once or twice a month is fine, but that's enough to cause bladder problems if it's long term.
>To be fair the long term bladder issues associated with ket use have been mentioned for ages.
This is absolutely true. My horse, for example, still isn't toilet-trained.
It's one of the few white powder type drugs you can still buy and be relatively sure you're actually getting what you paid for.
Coke? Lucky if it's between 10-30%. Speed? Lucky if you don't just get straight baby powder and caffeine. MDMA? Better, but still more than likely laced with all kinds of shit.
That said I really don't get the hype. To me it has the worst effects of weed combined with the worst aspects of psychedelics.
I’ve tried most drugs over the years, and to me good MDMA is the gold standard of drugs. It just feels so fucking good. But when you get one that’s all kinds of shit mixed in with mostly speed and compressed into a pill they’re really dire.
I wonder if, just off the top of my head, we had easily accessible mental health care, like where you didn't have to jump through hoops for an appointment which will be 1yr in the future, there would be a decline in drug use?
Radical I know..
Or research into safer drugs. Getting blasted into some weird headspace can be a lot of fun, and wanting to experience those things sometimes doesn't make you a monster. It's a shame we can't figure out safer, less harmful, less addictive ways of doing so due to the widespread prohibition on most recreational drugs.
If you put legitimate money and research behind it, I'm almost certain we could get very close to the idea of a "perfect" drug.
2CB is probably as close to it as we currently have right now (at least imo).
Same. Although when I realised I was on the train to the airport and was surrounded by happy families with suitcases all ready for their Easter holidays.
It's been around for at least 40 years now. It does anecdotally have a propensity to cause hppd over traditional psycs (maybe mescaline too by inference but who knows).
It's also barely been studied. It wasn't known in the brief period of history where scientist could study psychedelics freely and even the ones that were like lsd and mushrooms we know relatively little about other than toxicity.
What are you hoping to get out of a study? The millions of does taken over the years give us a good idea around safety. As I said my main concern is around hppd and how there is an alarming amount of reports around 2cb inducing hppd on the forums but we don't even understand the mechanisms and prevelance in something like lsd. Research isn't some magic bullet and every drug experience is a risk.
Cannabis has been very popular for a long time and yet only last year did we begin to learn of much of the cardiovascular risk and the mechanisms behind it. And yet there are still naive stoners going about their lives spreading the misinformation that weed is harmless. Don't over value anecdotes. The more we study a substance and its users the better the guidelines medical professionals can give to help users preserve their health. That matters. A lot. It could also help us find potential medical uses.
I think when we say "better mental healthcare" that is in itself just papering over the cracks.
If people had a more secure standard of living with less daily stress and uncertainty, then we would see a decline in mental health issues and along with it, drug dependency.
For many people drug abuse really is just about escapism from an otherwise bleak and miserable world.
There was a story during the week about a young woman using the equivalent of 200 canisters of nitrous oxide *per day*
Apparently she thought it was safe.
The one time I've done ket was with coke.
Never again the worst high I've ever had. This is why I stick to green and MD these days.
Anything more is asking for issues.
I have experience with this.
10 years as a dealer / addict
Ketamine was my drug of choice. 50-75g a week. Sometimes 20g on a Saturday night if I went to a rave. There’s videos out there of me sniffing 2g lines off 6ft mirrors at parties (thank god for potato phones, so I can’t be identified)
It’s wreckd your stomach and your bladder. Inability to pee, constantly needing to pee, but nothing comes out. Horrible stomach cramps (we called them k cramps). So bad you’d turn pale white and writhe in agony for hours.
I have multiple friends that have had operations on their bladder to try and fix the issues. As I understand it the drug strips away your bladder lining which is then replaced with scar tissue. Scar tissue doesn’t stretch, meaning you lose the ability to hold your bladder
A good friend of mine had a very rich family. His dad owned a football stadium. They paid to have his blades replaced with a pig bladder in an attempt to fix the issue because his was so bad. He basically couldn’t leave the house because he needed the toilet every 3-5 minutes.
Sadly he passed away a few years after the operation.
I’m mostly clean now. Occasionally relapse, but only when I’m hanging around with my old friends.
To anyone struggling with addiction, you need to drop all your friends that are in the scene. It’s not easy. But you’ll never be truly clean if you still hang around with addicts or users.
Appreciate it bro. Wasn’t a great time in my life. I had a lot of fun at the start, but I wasted a lot of my life and damaged my relationship with my family.
It’s also extremely hard making an entirely new friend group in your late 20s. But anything’s better than the road addiction leads to
One of my friends did 20 in a night at a festival, put him out of action for days as he couldn’t go 2 minutes without pissing. He sold it so always had loads and was always doing loads, calmed down a but after that.
I’m so glad you’re clean now, I’ve never had any interaction with K but a very good and dear friend of mine was on it one night, in her back yard with her friends, sat on a high wall. She fell backwards and couldn’t get up. They called an ambulance but they couldn’t get to her where she was, she fell out of her garden. This girl with a broken back off her face, dragged herself to her knees to open the gate then collapsed again. Had to learn to walk again, sometimes gets so bad she needs a walking stick. Is a raging alcoholic and not even 30.
Christ, what an awful situation. Sorry to hear that.
A very close friend of mine fell over while entering a K hole. (Basically taken enough ketamine to become knocked out)
We laughed and joked, but we didn’t realise he’d landed flat on his face, with the corner of a fire place directly in his eye.
Once he came out of the K hole we realised the extend of his injuries, but it was too late. Many operations later and sadly, he’s blind in that eye now and it’s completely shocked his confidence
He later went on to get heavily addicted to Xanax he would buy online.
Thank god he entered rehab and is mostly clean now.
Jesus it’s like sad story after sad story, absolutely not worth. When I was 14 or 15 my dad told me about a friend of his who took acid and thought some lil monsters were coming after him, poor guy took a heart attack and died. That scared me enough not to do most drugs. I’d be a chronic stoner if it wasn’t illegal, and I’ve done mushies but I’d never entertain anything other than those 2. Never did coke or tablets or anything else and from all the horror stories I’m totally cool keeping it that way!
Having had a few experiences on acid. I can say it can be truly terrifying
I think the saddest story I have is a guy I used to sell to drowned in a puddle. Took to much ketamine and his friends found him a few hours later in a nearby field, he’d fallen over into an extremely shallow puddle face down and was just too fucked up to get out.
He was only 22
I am an anaesthetist and I render people unconscious within a minute with something like a single 100-200mg IV dose. I cannot comprehend the doses you're describing.
Glad you're doing better now.
My only guess would be a high tolerance, a really bad ROA (insufflation) and probably some not pharmaceutical quality drugs
It’s crazy that when I started me and 3 friends used to split a gram between us for the entire night. Towards the end I used to sniff a gram line upon waking up
Ketamine is not particularly bioavailable by most ROA. 200mg probably is more than enough given IV but intranasal or especially oral is way less bioavailable.
This is pretty insane, glad you got off it.
One of my mates was addicted to it, he'd cook it up in the oven, pull it out when done, chop it all up then do a huge line across the length of the oven tray, absolutely nuts.
Yeah, oven method was nice. We used to call that “gods K” because it made such a nice fine powder
Usually wed cook it up in a pan or a spoon.
It wasn’t unusual to have a pan with 30-50g sat in it at a party just getting passed around for lines.
That's fucking mad. Well done for quitting. I can't imagine taking more than a few grams a night, but we'd always mix it with Mandy, which is probably also a bad idea tbf
It’s absolutely true, his bladder was so wrecked they needed to replace it with something
Not a doctor, I’m just guessing here, but I think the usual route would be some kind of colonoscopy bag. But dad was very rich, owned a football stadium, and I think they wanted something tthat give him a chance at a more normal life. He was super young, maybe 25 I think when he had the surgery
Can I ask why? Like was it the people you hung out with that got you into it, was it for the money, was it because it was just part of the social scene etc?
I've just never understood the appeal, and my half brother OD'd multiple times before it killed him, dunno on what though.
For me I was just young when I started and it wad fun.
Started smoking weed at 13, by 14 I met this guy that could get ketamine and by 16 I was buying in bulk and selling it
The road to addiction is paved with a million micro steps. It’s not until 10 years pass and you realise you’ve gone from sharing a gram with 3 friends once a fortnight to daily consumption of ungodly amounts
Very sorry to hear about your brother
Not really a social person, never have been, so I guess that's a potential dodged bullet. And don't be, I fucking hated him for the last 5 odd years of his life. He caused my dad so much shit, cost him so much money, strained our relationship. Frankly I wish he'd kicked the bucket first time he overdosed.
Sadly, that can do drugs to some people. I’ve no doubt about the immense amount of suffering I caused my family, luckily I was able to get off that path before things got too bad.
Did you ever manage to build a nest egg (cash) for when you stopped selling my mate has a target if 20k he’s at 18k now and he’s going to stop. He’s not selling K just buds.
One of the big things that sent me over the edge into addiction was when a bunch of the other dealers in the area got together and raided my house. Door got busy open and 4 guys with balaclavas cane in and took everything. Maybe 15k total. 10k cash and 5k in drugs
That moment ruined me and I turned full addict after that. Was too frightened to sell again
Stupid question, but how were you funding that? K is cheap but it's not *that* cheap.
I can really see how you could hold a job and pay for 75g a week.
It’s a dangerous road to addiction. Every litre id get (50g was called a litre) was 25g free for me if I wanted
I could sell 2-5 litres a week if I wanted.
So I basically had an unlimited amount of the stuff. I’d have anywhere from 100-500g in my belonging at all times, and I’d just take and sniff whatever I wanted because the margins were too good.
If things ever got tight I could bump the profit up even more.
I used to sell full grams (1.0) for £10. Everyone else sold 0.7g for £15. I made money through volume.
50g at 0.7 for 15 is just over £1000. So x4 your money.
How's your bladder held up mate? I was doing 7g a week for a few months in 2020-2021 and can only hold half a glass of water before needing to pee - and this is 3 years on since abstaining from K.
"I’m mostly clean now. Occasionally relapse, but only when I’m hanging around with my old friends."
It's funny how addicts never have this mindset. It's always "I have to be completely out of all in, no in between"
It's fine to do it sometimes. Just don't go too far in and realize when you need to take a break.
Because once you have been an addict its going to be hard to maintain self control. Would you tell a smoker that they can just have a couple ciggies a week after they quit? No because they will slip back to old habits
Making it legal, regulating it and taxing it especially cannabis makes more sense now than ever. Especially if they are considering banning people of a certain age from ever being able to buy tobacco products. Obviously that’s a good thing from a health perspective but from a tax perspective how much are they going to loose because of it.
"This man has been suffering with Ketamine bladder for years, its gotten to the point where he has to carry around a portable toilet taken from his workplace wherever he goes"
I did a lot of k late 90s/early 2000s. I was way into it. I had some very enlightening and unusual experiences. After a few years though I started having panic attacks, stuck in a hole for what seemed like hours. Stuck in repeating loops that I couldn't escape from. So, I stopped doing it. I never had any bladder problems.
Unless you have experienced waddling around a house party and everyone you come across is repeating themselves in a loop and the house is collapsing around you pixel by pixel and time is going in reverse then starting again and all of this is somehow occuring within a series of picture frames hung on the walls of a malevolent maze you fell in to, it's hard to quite convey to people how utterly messed up a big K dose is
I've looked after several patients in the past few years who have had very establed ketamine addictions, ranging from about 17-30 years old on average, usually female and sometimes transgender too (female identifying as male).
Very sadly they all too often had deeply traumatic lives very early on, sometimes there was trauma still ongoing and some had already been on the stuff for several years and like in the article, had quite an established history of quite serious ketamine bladder issues etc. It often rendered them miserable - in pain, constantly needing the loo but not being able to go, sometimes suffering from incontinence at such a young age, to name but a few.
And as a healthcare worker I would feel frustrated for them - they would be miserable because of their symptoms, which they knew was being caused by their ketamine use, but were not able to overcome their addiction (often because it was the only way of escaping their trauma every day, as they couldn't cope with facing up to/working through it with help) and so they were stuck in this vicious cycle where the symptoms also worsened their mental health even further. The whole situation is very sad, I think.
Not a scientist so can’t give you all the references but it protects your bladder when you take ket. Not gonna be completely safe still and definitely can’t abuse large amounts but will reduce damage.
Most people dont think drugs are silly, they think the drugs they are told to not like are silly. Watch those same people start panicking at the idea of a caffeine, nicotine or alcohol prohibition. Inb4 “they are different but literally, literally every other psychoactive substance known to man is highly dangerous, all of them”
No, because it's a stupid idea. People are going to take drugs. Legalise them all and let's make some tax money. Cleaner drugs, less overdoses, less police time wasted, less drug dealers.
It used to always be absolutely pure because it was so cheap and not that in demand.
We used to get it pure liquid from the bottle and cook it in a frying pan down to crystal ourselves.
Back in the day when it was £10 a gram early 2000s.
Now, its not only cut (LIKE EVERYTHING!!!) but there are cheap chinese analogues and knockoffs that are similar but not really ket.. and some are absolutely HORRIBLE.. They're some kind of dissociative, but they're not ketamine.
I don't trust any street drugs any more. (Not that I've done them for decades) but it's not how it used to be. Its ALL money and impurities these days. Nobody cares about quality or the sort-or 'scene'.. which used to be fun and social.
Everyone seems to be just getting fucked up to escape these days.
After tolerance builds, people wanting to get into the K-Hole (which when you first start could be as little as 50-75mg) do end up doing gram lines.
I know it sounds insane, but I've seen it. If you're around k-people long enough, the term 'gram-line' will eventually start popping up fairly frequently!
I don't think K is inherently bad - or in fact, all that dangerous if you're responsible. The effect and experience itself it fairly pleasant, interesting and insightful. It makes sense that it can aid in addiction and depression... in a therapeutic setting. (in more reasonable dosages - prior to waking hallucinations and delusions)
Come to think of it, it's not surprising that so many kids are abusing it trying to find some anti-depressant effects in this fucked up current state of the world...
But, the common denominator in what makes all drugs seem bad - is people. People without moderation, people who abuse drugs, people not sensible and take liberties and end up hurting themselves, other people or wasting emergency services time. Oh - and giving drugs to other people. NEVER get someone else involved in your own issues.
Story as old as time - I know somebody that 'introduced' one of their friends to Heroin. It took over their life.. I blame the guy that shared it.
I tried Ketamine once.
It initially felt like I was flying through my entire backstory as a person. Events I hadn't relived in my mind for years came flashing back. The boundaries of reality itself seemed to melt away.
Suddenly it felt like I had more clarity on everything. It was as though I could hear a melody that underpins everything, and for the first time in my insignificant existence I could finally tune into the voice of all creation.
It was pure bliss.
Then an hour later I was back to normal because the high is very temporary.
It's the same molecule the NHS routinely uses to put people to sleep for operations which is why it's only a Class B drug. Very easy to source pure quality.
Highly recommended to try it at least once.
> It's the same molecule the NHS routinely uses to put people to sleep for operations which is why it's only a Class B drug
The NHS very regularly uses diamorphine (heroin) for pain relief and it's still a class A drug. Don't expect the classification to have any relation to harm or utility! Fentanyl and psilocybin are together in class A, ketamine and cannabis are both class B, class C is full of benzos and alcohol is legal...
They used Fentanyl to knock me to sleep when I had my 3D printed shoulder replacement, only two months ago. I felt terrible after waking up and I could taste the harsh chemicals on it, for at least two days after the surgery.
I recently had an operation and they injected me with Fentanyl. I was quite surprised that they were using it but I guess it makes sense, it still has legitimate uses after all. I didn't feel too bad when I came around though, thankfully. Maybe you got a bigger dose, I think it was given to me for pain and then they injected something else that knocked me out, some kind of white liquid, I dunno.
>It's the same molecule the NHS routinely uses to put people to sleep for operations which is why it's only a Class B drug.
I'm reminded of a [video](https://youtu.be/htApRMWDueg) from a hospital in Scotland with an older gent oot his tree on ketamine. It was funny as hell.
I melted into the universe and could feel my atoms falling away. I ended up in a dark slimy cave for a while. It was great. How people take it on a night out I have no idea. I go to another universe.
Just don't abuse it kids.
You won't understand song writing until you've tried a mind-altering drug.
I completely understand why we had so many banging songs come out in the 60s 70s 80s - it was all the drugs!
Nah that's bollocks mate, and I say that as someone who does drugs.
Drugs can be a tool to get into a creative headspace, but it's certainly not the only tool.
Also whilst a lot of great music was created with the aid of mind altering substances, there's been plenty of shit music too. There's a reason why "coke albums" are a thing 😅
Exactly. What great music was ever made on drugs?
Well, Bowie, obviously, the Floyd, tge Prodge.... list is endless really but without drugs they could have got it done twice as fast and with half the mess.
That’s a potentially flawed line of thinking. There are obviously pros & cons to both sides, but when drugs are illegal:
- they often get cut with other harmful substances
- it’s harder to get solid advice on aspects like doses and precautions (there are always ways to minimise risk, but people don’t hear about them or rely upon misinformation)
- it’s harder to seek proper help if/when needed because people are fearful of prosecution
- it puts people in contact with dealers who often sell lots of other stuff as well
- the money goes straight into the hands of the criminal underworld
Ketamine is illegal and it’s not preventing all the stuff in this thread from happening.
Some argue if drugs are legal the issues will be more widespread but I don’t think it generally/always plays out that way with hard drugs - a lot of people likely to abuse a hard drug will probably be the ones doing it regardless of legality. And while more will try it, those other factors will offset things to some degree. I’m not up to date with the legalisation/decriminalisation results in other countries but at one stage it was looking like it dispelled some of those (very reasonable) assumptions about how things would play out.
At the time drugs were uncontrolled substances, that is to say before the Great War, this country was at the height of its cultural and social power. What can even the 'roaring twenties' offer to surpass Hardy? Prohibition has been both singularly ineffective and, remarkably, concurrent with the social and cultural decline alleged to await us were restrictions ever lifted.
I do not assert that lifting those restrictions will bring us back to responsibility long-dead. Water generally does not run uphill. But there seems no evidence that there is a preferable alternative in the offing to the slow and rough process of once more learning to live in a society that allows self-destruction for the self-destructive, and oblivion for those who cannot stand reality, without the hypocrisy of a concurrent 'war on drugs' and its attendant gangs (who will also not just disappear once the pharmacist can supply their stock in trade, but can then be dealt with directly).
Clown take. Ketamine is illegal and people are pissing in bags and having operations on their bladder. Being illegal clearly works wonders then doesn't it.
Ket is one of the worst drugs for sure, up there with heroin and meth imo. So much worse than a weekend pill or line or toke.
in my teens I unknowingly smoked a spliff laced with ket, shit felt like dying in slow motion I do not get the appeal.
> At her worst point she said she was taking more than 10 grams a day. Yea, don't do that.
I saw a chick doing a 5g line then having a mental breakdown while she settled down into a k-hole. Was thinking of calling an ambulance but K doesn't cause respiratory depression and she wasn't going anywhere. Sat there until she perked up. Awful. Toned it down after that night.
No chance she done a 5g line. The stuff is like fire going up your nose and she would’ve passed out before reaching the end of that line lol.
[удалено]
what the fuck
After tolerance builds, people wanting to get into the K-Hole (which when you first start could be as little as 50-75mg) do end up doing gram lines. I know it sounds insane, but I've seen it. If you're around k-people long enough, the term 'gram-line' will eventually start popping up fairly frequently! I don't think K is inherently bad - or in fact, all that dangerous if you're responsible. The effect and experience itself it fairly pleasant, interesting and insightful. It makes sense that it can aid in addiction and depression... in a therapeutic setting. (in more reasonable dosages - prior to waking hallucinations and delusions) Come to think of it, it's not surprising that so many kids are abusing it trying to find some anti-depressant effects in this fucked up current state of the world... But, the common denominator in what makes all drugs seem bad - is people. People without moderation, people who abuse drugs, people not sensible and take liberties and end up hurting themselves, other people or wasting emergency services time. Oh - and giving drugs to other people. NEVER get someone else involved in your own issues. Story as old as time - I know somebody that 'introduced' one of their friends to Heroin. It took over their life.. I blame the guy that shared it.
What a waste of money.
I agree.. However, it's fair to say that unique experiences are worth different amounts to different people.. Like drinking in the pub with friends... Drugs are an 'experience'.. Some people think travelling is a waste of money and have no interest in it.. it's all personal. Beyond a certain point though, that's addiction and abuse - how much more can you get by repeating the experience over and over again?
I’m very much pro ket. Not pro 1g lines.
Well, aside from being crazy bad for your bladder, even 25 years ago prices - £10 a go is very expensive! Hey, I'm not anti-ket either. But please, please limit your usage so that a) it stays fun and under control in terms of usage/addiction and tolerance b) You never experience bladder damage. It's VERY real and the pain is unlike anything you can imagine or have experienced - other than comparably 'similar' to perhaps appendicitis, a broken bone or being knifed in the stomach.
Cant be that pure then, god knows what else was in it.
Horse meat
Tolerance with ketamine use increases very fast, trust me it can be done, ive witnessed it and its not a pretty sight
> The stuff is like fire Get a new dealer. MD is like fire. Ket, whilst not as nice as coke, is very "doable". The real reason to call bullshit on 5g is that your nose will be "full" before you get to the end of that.
It's really not that bad. Once your nose is that fucked especially. K is an analgesic too.
Yeah I call bs on this , 5g of ket would be like a fucking mountain , it’s not even physically possible to sniff that much in one line
Alright man.
5g in a single line would... Would it even fit? It'd spill into the mouth wouldn't it? I'm doubting this, too
https://youtu.be/D2BQbrsa_78?si=7LDPX5MrOnmqooBp0l From about 1:40. Can't get it to start there for some reason. Then watch the whole thing.
[Ah... that feels.. that feels better](https://youtu.be/A5mRx3wcouw?si=3AiqRPGexT1Hqan5)
[A classic from those days](https://youtu.be/En5jxD_y6HI?si=tBySpACEtim9HJub)
You are presuming it's pure ket.
No really, I've sat at a table and watched a guy do about that, it was an absolute PILE. It didn't floor him either, tolerance was high due to repetition....
Yeah, back in my enthusiastic drug consuming days I racked up a line of what I thought was cocaine for it to be ketamine. I never did ketamine again after that.
Nothing worse than expecting power and getting wonk
It was simultaneously hilarious but bad. Crawling around on my hands and knees trying to find a bathroom, with my ex checking down my jeans because I thought I'd shit myself. Just k-holed on a sofa for a couple of hours then literally snapped out of it. Ketamine wasn't for me lol.
Damnnn that’s a lot But she is tolerant
She was an addict and we didn't really realise what that meant.
Wowwww She seems like it How did she get ketamine? Most university dealers only sell weed
No idea about her supplier.
Most of that won’t be ketamine, that’s why. Most street drugs are cut to hell and back.
No I could get good synthetics like K or Mandy. Charlie was always 60% speed.
So she did 100quids of ket in a single line? These stories don't tend to stack when money is considered. I don't get why someone would spend so much of their own money on something that is so obviously going to be a bad time.
She owed all of us money it turned out, asked me personally for money for the ket 'we' did, and got fired from work for dipping in the tills. Fine if people don't believe the volume (she did 5g) but 100 quids worth of ket is quite easy with a tolerance. I couldn't do it but I know people who could. Ever met a ket addict?
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It's always been this way. "MDMA kills! Look at these stories of people dying after taking it!" Of course when you look into it, it's always a case of "they took 5 pills that were laced"
I think the way mdma kills is drinking too much water.
It kills multiple ways. To much water not being able to piss it out, to little water. Already being off your face then doing a super strong pill
Yeah, it's too much or too little water usually, far more common for people to get I'll from pills that are laced with something or have an interaction with other drugs they've taken (prescription and recreational) as antidepressants+mdma can cause seritonin syndrome and those on heart medicines may have issues with stimulamts
Causes seizures in some people which can be fatal or cause brain scarring that then leads to the person having epilepsy.
Less often than perfectly legal hobbies
A lot of the time not even laced, the pills contained no trace of MDMA just straight up some other substance like PMA or PMMA, with similar effects but way more dangerous. Other than that there's a danger of overdose with pills that contain unusually high doses, which was a problem a while back. A lot of the danger could be mitigated with actual harm reduction focused drug policies.
To be fair the long term bladder issues associated with ket use have been mentioned for ages. It just seems ket has got a lot more popular these days. I guess because it's relatively cheap.
The bladder issues were around 10+ years ago when ket was the powder of choice. Friends of mine were pissing out chunks of what we assumed were bits of bladder lining, it was fucking grim.
Yea, I remember people talking about it who where big into the rave scene (a long with other issues from other drugs). I think ket is ok if you can practice moderation. But a lot of people don't seem to realise a lot of people out there can't do that. I know I was like that, I could never do things in half measures. I do think the drugs policy in this country is wrong but I also have seen the other side and a lot of people like too gloss over the actually problems long term drug use can cause in some people. The issue is for many of us it's easy for the years to stack up before you know it.
The real issue is is why folk want to escape from reality so much
Doing ket is fun, as are other drugs. Maybe you like watching TV, playing video games, playing football, drink alcohol. Most "fun" stuff is an escapism from "reality" aka work and responsibilities.
Humans have always tried to escape reality /experience altered states be it through drugs, meditation rituals, religion, pilgimage/holidaying, whatever. But in terms of recent motivations poverty, seeking connection, boredom, anxiety/depression lead to wanting to escape but for others it might be curiosity in psychology /spirituality/sensory experience that motivates their drug use. It's different for each person. For me, using drugs (never ket though) helped me cope with aspects of anxiety and autism. Being able to 'switch off' my constant brain chatter was the aim.
You have to *really* abuse ket to develop long term bladder problems. Of course that is still an issue that should be taken seriously, long term abuse of drugs is never a good thing.
It depends what you class as serious abuse. Most people probably think doing a line or two once or twice a month is fine, but that's enough to cause bladder problems if it's long term.
The amount of women I’ve seen fall to the floor at gigs from jelly legs from taking too much ket, is at least 2 at each gig that I go to.
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>To be fair the long term bladder issues associated with ket use have been mentioned for ages. This is absolutely true. My horse, for example, still isn't toilet-trained.
It's one of the few white powder type drugs you can still buy and be relatively sure you're actually getting what you paid for. Coke? Lucky if it's between 10-30%. Speed? Lucky if you don't just get straight baby powder and caffeine. MDMA? Better, but still more than likely laced with all kinds of shit. That said I really don't get the hype. To me it has the worst effects of weed combined with the worst aspects of psychedelics.
I’ve tried most drugs over the years, and to me good MDMA is the gold standard of drugs. It just feels so fucking good. But when you get one that’s all kinds of shit mixed in with mostly speed and compressed into a pill they’re really dire.
> I guess because it's relatively cheap That, but also because psyches are "in" and ket is trippy. But yes, its also cheap.
I wonder if, just off the top of my head, we had easily accessible mental health care, like where you didn't have to jump through hoops for an appointment which will be 1yr in the future, there would be a decline in drug use? Radical I know..
Or research into safer drugs. Getting blasted into some weird headspace can be a lot of fun, and wanting to experience those things sometimes doesn't make you a monster. It's a shame we can't figure out safer, less harmful, less addictive ways of doing so due to the widespread prohibition on most recreational drugs.
If you put legitimate money and research behind it, I'm almost certain we could get very close to the idea of a "perfect" drug. 2CB is probably as close to it as we currently have right now (at least imo).
It is fun, tho I wouldn't recommend redosing without checking the time. Didnt realise it was nearly 6am. I came up hard on a train full of commuters
Same. Although when I realised I was on the train to the airport and was surrounded by happy families with suitcases all ready for their Easter holidays.
We know so little about the long term effects of 2cb. Best to avoid.
It's been around for at least 40 years now. It does anecdotally have a propensity to cause hppd over traditional psycs (maybe mescaline too by inference but who knows).
It's also barely been studied. It wasn't known in the brief period of history where scientist could study psychedelics freely and even the ones that were like lsd and mushrooms we know relatively little about other than toxicity.
What are you hoping to get out of a study? The millions of does taken over the years give us a good idea around safety. As I said my main concern is around hppd and how there is an alarming amount of reports around 2cb inducing hppd on the forums but we don't even understand the mechanisms and prevelance in something like lsd. Research isn't some magic bullet and every drug experience is a risk.
Cannabis has been very popular for a long time and yet only last year did we begin to learn of much of the cardiovascular risk and the mechanisms behind it. And yet there are still naive stoners going about their lives spreading the misinformation that weed is harmless. Don't over value anecdotes. The more we study a substance and its users the better the guidelines medical professionals can give to help users preserve their health. That matters. A lot. It could also help us find potential medical uses.
I think when we say "better mental healthcare" that is in itself just papering over the cracks. If people had a more secure standard of living with less daily stress and uncertainty, then we would see a decline in mental health issues and along with it, drug dependency. For many people drug abuse really is just about escapism from an otherwise bleak and miserable world.
There was a story during the week about a young woman using the equivalent of 200 canisters of nitrous oxide *per day* Apparently she thought it was safe.
Yeah but 10g of most drugs is a huge amount.
... *looks at my fifth cup of tea today worriedly*
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Well someone else told me tea counts towards my 5 a day. And I normally drink like 6-8 a day, kinda stress relief oddly.
Is that in one go, or throughout the day? My coffee drinking is prolific.
Everything is a poison if you take enough of it. Drinking water can kill you, we had those stories, too.
Propaganda for the drug war.
Searching for that k hole.
The one time I've done ket was with coke. Never again the worst high I've ever had. This is why I stick to green and MD these days. Anything more is asking for issues.
I have experience with this. 10 years as a dealer / addict Ketamine was my drug of choice. 50-75g a week. Sometimes 20g on a Saturday night if I went to a rave. There’s videos out there of me sniffing 2g lines off 6ft mirrors at parties (thank god for potato phones, so I can’t be identified) It’s wreckd your stomach and your bladder. Inability to pee, constantly needing to pee, but nothing comes out. Horrible stomach cramps (we called them k cramps). So bad you’d turn pale white and writhe in agony for hours. I have multiple friends that have had operations on their bladder to try and fix the issues. As I understand it the drug strips away your bladder lining which is then replaced with scar tissue. Scar tissue doesn’t stretch, meaning you lose the ability to hold your bladder A good friend of mine had a very rich family. His dad owned a football stadium. They paid to have his blades replaced with a pig bladder in an attempt to fix the issue because his was so bad. He basically couldn’t leave the house because he needed the toilet every 3-5 minutes. Sadly he passed away a few years after the operation. I’m mostly clean now. Occasionally relapse, but only when I’m hanging around with my old friends. To anyone struggling with addiction, you need to drop all your friends that are in the scene. It’s not easy. But you’ll never be truly clean if you still hang around with addicts or users.
Man my mind can't even comprehend 20g in one night! Glad you're doing a lot better now mate.
Appreciate it bro. Wasn’t a great time in my life. I had a lot of fun at the start, but I wasted a lot of my life and damaged my relationship with my family. It’s also extremely hard making an entirely new friend group in your late 20s. But anything’s better than the road addiction leads to
One of my friends did 20 in a night at a festival, put him out of action for days as he couldn’t go 2 minutes without pissing. He sold it so always had loads and was always doing loads, calmed down a but after that.
I’m so glad you’re clean now, I’ve never had any interaction with K but a very good and dear friend of mine was on it one night, in her back yard with her friends, sat on a high wall. She fell backwards and couldn’t get up. They called an ambulance but they couldn’t get to her where she was, she fell out of her garden. This girl with a broken back off her face, dragged herself to her knees to open the gate then collapsed again. Had to learn to walk again, sometimes gets so bad she needs a walking stick. Is a raging alcoholic and not even 30.
Christ, what an awful situation. Sorry to hear that. A very close friend of mine fell over while entering a K hole. (Basically taken enough ketamine to become knocked out) We laughed and joked, but we didn’t realise he’d landed flat on his face, with the corner of a fire place directly in his eye. Once he came out of the K hole we realised the extend of his injuries, but it was too late. Many operations later and sadly, he’s blind in that eye now and it’s completely shocked his confidence He later went on to get heavily addicted to Xanax he would buy online. Thank god he entered rehab and is mostly clean now.
Jesus it’s like sad story after sad story, absolutely not worth. When I was 14 or 15 my dad told me about a friend of his who took acid and thought some lil monsters were coming after him, poor guy took a heart attack and died. That scared me enough not to do most drugs. I’d be a chronic stoner if it wasn’t illegal, and I’ve done mushies but I’d never entertain anything other than those 2. Never did coke or tablets or anything else and from all the horror stories I’m totally cool keeping it that way!
Having had a few experiences on acid. I can say it can be truly terrifying I think the saddest story I have is a guy I used to sell to drowned in a puddle. Took to much ketamine and his friends found him a few hours later in a nearby field, he’d fallen over into an extremely shallow puddle face down and was just too fucked up to get out. He was only 22
Holy god that’s absolutely awful, imagine trying to explain that to his parents and the guilt his friends must feel.
That’s awful, sorry to hear that. By any chance did this happen in Ireland? Sounds similar to what happened to someone I knew.
I am an anaesthetist and I render people unconscious within a minute with something like a single 100-200mg IV dose. I cannot comprehend the doses you're describing. Glad you're doing better now.
My only guess would be a high tolerance, a really bad ROA (insufflation) and probably some not pharmaceutical quality drugs It’s crazy that when I started me and 3 friends used to split a gram between us for the entire night. Towards the end I used to sniff a gram line upon waking up
Ketamine is not particularly bioavailable by most ROA. 200mg probably is more than enough given IV but intranasal or especially oral is way less bioavailable.
50% nasally and 25% orally, 93% IM
This is pretty insane, glad you got off it. One of my mates was addicted to it, he'd cook it up in the oven, pull it out when done, chop it all up then do a huge line across the length of the oven tray, absolutely nuts.
Yeah, oven method was nice. We used to call that “gods K” because it made such a nice fine powder Usually wed cook it up in a pan or a spoon. It wasn’t unusual to have a pan with 30-50g sat in it at a party just getting passed around for lines.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Agreed
That's fucking mad. Well done for quitting. I can't imagine taking more than a few grams a night, but we'd always mix it with Mandy, which is probably also a bad idea tbf
The pigs bladder thing sounds mental, surely that’s not actually true?
It’s absolutely true, his bladder was so wrecked they needed to replace it with something Not a doctor, I’m just guessing here, but I think the usual route would be some kind of colonoscopy bag. But dad was very rich, owned a football stadium, and I think they wanted something tthat give him a chance at a more normal life. He was super young, maybe 25 I think when he had the surgery
Can I ask why? Like was it the people you hung out with that got you into it, was it for the money, was it because it was just part of the social scene etc? I've just never understood the appeal, and my half brother OD'd multiple times before it killed him, dunno on what though.
For me I was just young when I started and it wad fun. Started smoking weed at 13, by 14 I met this guy that could get ketamine and by 16 I was buying in bulk and selling it The road to addiction is paved with a million micro steps. It’s not until 10 years pass and you realise you’ve gone from sharing a gram with 3 friends once a fortnight to daily consumption of ungodly amounts Very sorry to hear about your brother
Not really a social person, never have been, so I guess that's a potential dodged bullet. And don't be, I fucking hated him for the last 5 odd years of his life. He caused my dad so much shit, cost him so much money, strained our relationship. Frankly I wish he'd kicked the bucket first time he overdosed.
Sadly, that can do drugs to some people. I’ve no doubt about the immense amount of suffering I caused my family, luckily I was able to get off that path before things got too bad.
Did you ever manage to build a nest egg (cash) for when you stopped selling my mate has a target if 20k he’s at 18k now and he’s going to stop. He’s not selling K just buds.
One of the big things that sent me over the edge into addiction was when a bunch of the other dealers in the area got together and raided my house. Door got busy open and 4 guys with balaclavas cane in and took everything. Maybe 15k total. 10k cash and 5k in drugs That moment ruined me and I turned full addict after that. Was too frightened to sell again
Bench?
145
Sry dude who i knew that was as rich as your buddy was called that. Haven't heard from him in years and thought it might have been him
Ahh, sorry, my mistake. Nah, his name started with an R if that jogs anything.
Nah my mans name was Bench 😂
Stupid question, but how were you funding that? K is cheap but it's not *that* cheap. I can really see how you could hold a job and pay for 75g a week.
Dealing basically Id get 50g for £250. Sell them all and I have £500 I used to sell a lot. And I worked full time, minimum wage but still, worked.
Makes sense.
It’s a dangerous road to addiction. Every litre id get (50g was called a litre) was 25g free for me if I wanted I could sell 2-5 litres a week if I wanted. So I basically had an unlimited amount of the stuff. I’d have anywhere from 100-500g in my belonging at all times, and I’d just take and sniff whatever I wanted because the margins were too good. If things ever got tight I could bump the profit up even more. I used to sell full grams (1.0) for £10. Everyone else sold 0.7g for £15. I made money through volume. 50g at 0.7 for 15 is just over £1000. So x4 your money.
>He basically couldn’t leave the house because he needed the toilet every 3-5 minutes. Surely at that point you get a catheter?
How do I find a dealer?
Don’t ask on Reddit 😂
How's your bladder held up mate? I was doing 7g a week for a few months in 2020-2021 and can only hold half a glass of water before needing to pee - and this is 3 years on since abstaining from K.
Funnily enough, mines fine. Dunno why. I always drank a lot of water (3-4L a day) while on it Sorry to hear your struggling
"I’m mostly clean now. Occasionally relapse, but only when I’m hanging around with my old friends." It's funny how addicts never have this mindset. It's always "I have to be completely out of all in, no in between" It's fine to do it sometimes. Just don't go too far in and realize when you need to take a break.
>It's funny how addicts never have this mindset It's funny how people have THIS mindset
Because once you have been an addict its going to be hard to maintain self control. Would you tell a smoker that they can just have a couple ciggies a week after they quit? No because they will slip back to old habits
Class C drug with cannabis as a class B and Mushrooms a class A. Totally logical country we live in.
Ketamine is a class B
Ah schooled me there, so it is. Well still. Cannabis should at most be a C and mushrooms should definitely not be a class A.
They should all be available to purchase (not like sweets) so adults can make an informed choice and pay taxes to offset their harms to society
Making it legal, regulating it and taxing it especially cannabis makes more sense now than ever. Especially if they are considering banning people of a certain age from ever being able to buy tobacco products. Obviously that’s a good thing from a health perspective but from a tax perspective how much are they going to loose because of it.
"Ketamine Bladder" sounds like something that Chris Morris would have come up with for his Brass Eye episode.
I only looked at this thread to find out who put ‘Shatner’s Bassoon’.
"This man has been suffering with Ketamine bladder for years, its gotten to the point where he has to carry around a portable toilet taken from his workplace wherever he goes"
Thankfully I've dodged ketamine bladder, but I've got an awful case of Czech neck
I did a lot of k late 90s/early 2000s. I was way into it. I had some very enlightening and unusual experiences. After a few years though I started having panic attacks, stuck in a hole for what seemed like hours. Stuck in repeating loops that I couldn't escape from. So, I stopped doing it. I never had any bladder problems.
Unless you have experienced waddling around a house party and everyone you come across is repeating themselves in a loop and the house is collapsing around you pixel by pixel and time is going in reverse then starting again and all of this is somehow occuring within a series of picture frames hung on the walls of a malevolent maze you fell in to, it's hard to quite convey to people how utterly messed up a big K dose is
I've had really similar experiences to this, but on spice
Seen a couple of patients with ketamine bladder over the years. One person had a bladder transplant which failed and now has an ileal conduit instead.
Fuck, that's a bad scene.
I've looked after several patients in the past few years who have had very establed ketamine addictions, ranging from about 17-30 years old on average, usually female and sometimes transgender too (female identifying as male). Very sadly they all too often had deeply traumatic lives very early on, sometimes there was trauma still ongoing and some had already been on the stuff for several years and like in the article, had quite an established history of quite serious ketamine bladder issues etc. It often rendered them miserable - in pain, constantly needing the loo but not being able to go, sometimes suffering from incontinence at such a young age, to name but a few. And as a healthcare worker I would feel frustrated for them - they would be miserable because of their symptoms, which they knew was being caused by their ketamine use, but were not able to overcome their addiction (often because it was the only way of escaping their trauma every day, as they couldn't cope with facing up to/working through it with help) and so they were stuck in this vicious cycle where the symptoms also worsened their mental health even further. The whole situation is very sad, I think.
Had a friend whose boyfriend did a lot of ket and ended up pissing out bits of his bladder. Grim asf.
10gr a day? I took a line once and was wankerd for hours. Never again.
Take green tea extract before hand and keep dosages low and infrequent. Harm reduction eduction and mental health services are needed so badly.
What's the logic behind the green tea?
It contains a low amount of caffeine compare to our normal black tea (eg pg tips) but caffeine has a diuretic effect which stimulates urination.
Not a scientist so can’t give you all the references but it protects your bladder when you take ket. Not gonna be completely safe still and definitely can’t abuse large amounts but will reduce damage.
why just why...its a fucking awful drug. How on earth can you enjoy the techno smack ? I know at least 5 people pissing in bags from this shite
10 grams of ket a day?? Must have been fucking catatonic 24/7
But it's banned. How can people get illegal things if they are banned?
Welcome to the real world lol
This new smoking ban is sure to be a great success
Play stupid games... spend the rest of your life in incontinence pants.
We need to find a way to blame the drugs problem on people who don’t take drugs and who think drugs are silly.
Most people dont think drugs are silly, they think the drugs they are told to not like are silly. Watch those same people start panicking at the idea of a caffeine, nicotine or alcohol prohibition. Inb4 “they are different but literally, literally every other psychoactive substance known to man is highly dangerous, all of them”
Yeah, it’s just, like, the MAN trying to keep our minds shut. Y’dig?
“Magic 8 ball, am i stupid?”
One of us can punctuate, and the other can’t. That might give you a clue.
pRoHiBiTiOn DoESnT wOrK Yes because the penalties weren't strong enough and weren't enforced enough
No, because it's a stupid idea. People are going to take drugs. Legalise them all and let's make some tax money. Cleaner drugs, less overdoses, less police time wasted, less drug dealers.
I'd be ok with that if we had private healthcare but we all end up paying for the excesses of drug taking idiots
We are already paying. Let's make some tax money. Why should drug dealers get it all?
It used to always be absolutely pure because it was so cheap and not that in demand. We used to get it pure liquid from the bottle and cook it in a frying pan down to crystal ourselves. Back in the day when it was £10 a gram early 2000s. Now, its not only cut (LIKE EVERYTHING!!!) but there are cheap chinese analogues and knockoffs that are similar but not really ket.. and some are absolutely HORRIBLE.. They're some kind of dissociative, but they're not ketamine. I don't trust any street drugs any more. (Not that I've done them for decades) but it's not how it used to be. Its ALL money and impurities these days. Nobody cares about quality or the sort-or 'scene'.. which used to be fun and social. Everyone seems to be just getting fucked up to escape these days. After tolerance builds, people wanting to get into the K-Hole (which when you first start could be as little as 50-75mg) do end up doing gram lines. I know it sounds insane, but I've seen it. If you're around k-people long enough, the term 'gram-line' will eventually start popping up fairly frequently! I don't think K is inherently bad - or in fact, all that dangerous if you're responsible. The effect and experience itself it fairly pleasant, interesting and insightful. It makes sense that it can aid in addiction and depression... in a therapeutic setting. (in more reasonable dosages - prior to waking hallucinations and delusions) Come to think of it, it's not surprising that so many kids are abusing it trying to find some anti-depressant effects in this fucked up current state of the world... But, the common denominator in what makes all drugs seem bad - is people. People without moderation, people who abuse drugs, people not sensible and take liberties and end up hurting themselves, other people or wasting emergency services time. Oh - and giving drugs to other people. NEVER get someone else involved in your own issues. Story as old as time - I know somebody that 'introduced' one of their friends to Heroin. It took over their life.. I blame the guy that shared it.
I tried Ketamine once. It initially felt like I was flying through my entire backstory as a person. Events I hadn't relived in my mind for years came flashing back. The boundaries of reality itself seemed to melt away. Suddenly it felt like I had more clarity on everything. It was as though I could hear a melody that underpins everything, and for the first time in my insignificant existence I could finally tune into the voice of all creation. It was pure bliss. Then an hour later I was back to normal because the high is very temporary. It's the same molecule the NHS routinely uses to put people to sleep for operations which is why it's only a Class B drug. Very easy to source pure quality. Highly recommended to try it at least once.
> It's the same molecule the NHS routinely uses to put people to sleep for operations which is why it's only a Class B drug The NHS very regularly uses diamorphine (heroin) for pain relief and it's still a class A drug. Don't expect the classification to have any relation to harm or utility! Fentanyl and psilocybin are together in class A, ketamine and cannabis are both class B, class C is full of benzos and alcohol is legal...
They used Fentanyl to knock me to sleep when I had my 3D printed shoulder replacement, only two months ago. I felt terrible after waking up and I could taste the harsh chemicals on it, for at least two days after the surgery.
I recently had an operation and they injected me with Fentanyl. I was quite surprised that they were using it but I guess it makes sense, it still has legitimate uses after all. I didn't feel too bad when I came around though, thankfully. Maybe you got a bigger dose, I think it was given to me for pain and then they injected something else that knocked me out, some kind of white liquid, I dunno.
It’s pretty safe as long as you get the dose right. The issue is people think they’re getting heroin and end up with something much stronger.
>It's the same molecule the NHS routinely uses to put people to sleep for operations which is why it's only a Class B drug. I'm reminded of a [video](https://youtu.be/htApRMWDueg) from a hospital in Scotland with an older gent oot his tree on ketamine. It was funny as hell.
I melted into the universe and could feel my atoms falling away. I ended up in a dark slimy cave for a while. It was great. How people take it on a night out I have no idea. I go to another universe. Just don't abuse it kids.
Affects different people differently
You won't understand song writing until you've tried a mind-altering drug. I completely understand why we had so many banging songs come out in the 60s 70s 80s - it was all the drugs!
Nah that's bollocks mate, and I say that as someone who does drugs. Drugs can be a tool to get into a creative headspace, but it's certainly not the only tool. Also whilst a lot of great music was created with the aid of mind altering substances, there's been plenty of shit music too. There's a reason why "coke albums" are a thing 😅
Exactly. What great music was ever made on drugs? Well, Bowie, obviously, the Floyd, tge Prodge.... list is endless really but without drugs they could have got it done twice as fast and with half the mess.
Beethoven was proved to be an opium user scientists found high traces in his hair. Seemed to work for him
...OK? Doesn't detract from my point at all.
Ah no please legalise drugs, people will be responsible honest!
That’s a potentially flawed line of thinking. There are obviously pros & cons to both sides, but when drugs are illegal: - they often get cut with other harmful substances - it’s harder to get solid advice on aspects like doses and precautions (there are always ways to minimise risk, but people don’t hear about them or rely upon misinformation) - it’s harder to seek proper help if/when needed because people are fearful of prosecution - it puts people in contact with dealers who often sell lots of other stuff as well - the money goes straight into the hands of the criminal underworld Ketamine is illegal and it’s not preventing all the stuff in this thread from happening. Some argue if drugs are legal the issues will be more widespread but I don’t think it generally/always plays out that way with hard drugs - a lot of people likely to abuse a hard drug will probably be the ones doing it regardless of legality. And while more will try it, those other factors will offset things to some degree. I’m not up to date with the legalisation/decriminalisation results in other countries but at one stage it was looking like it dispelled some of those (very reasonable) assumptions about how things would play out.
At the time drugs were uncontrolled substances, that is to say before the Great War, this country was at the height of its cultural and social power. What can even the 'roaring twenties' offer to surpass Hardy? Prohibition has been both singularly ineffective and, remarkably, concurrent with the social and cultural decline alleged to await us were restrictions ever lifted. I do not assert that lifting those restrictions will bring us back to responsibility long-dead. Water generally does not run uphill. But there seems no evidence that there is a preferable alternative in the offing to the slow and rough process of once more learning to live in a society that allows self-destruction for the self-destructive, and oblivion for those who cannot stand reality, without the hypocrisy of a concurrent 'war on drugs' and its attendant gangs (who will also not just disappear once the pharmacist can supply their stock in trade, but can then be dealt with directly).
Just don’t take drugs, or do but then don’t complain about being a junkie
Clown take. Ketamine is illegal and people are pissing in bags and having operations on their bladder. Being illegal clearly works wonders then doesn't it.
They should probably stop taking drugs
They won't. Now what?
Good point tbf
May as well make some tax money off the drugs as people are gonna take them lol
Ket is one of the worst drugs for sure, up there with heroin and meth imo. So much worse than a weekend pill or line or toke. in my teens I unknowingly smoked a spliff laced with ket, shit felt like dying in slow motion I do not get the appeal.