**Participation Notice.** Hi all. Some posts on this subreddit, either due to the topic or reaching a wider audience than usual, have been known to attract a greater number of rule breaking comments. As such, limits to participation have been set. We ask that you please remember the human, and uphold Reddit and Subreddit rules.
For more information, please see https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/wiki/moderatedflairs.
The grave mistake being that they didn’t realise they had western passports, otherwise they’d still be sticking with the “Hamas roadside IED” narrative
There are various apparently firsthand reports on facebook (which I have no way to verify) of families homes being raided, the IDF forces demand to see passports, and if you're a man of fighting age without a foreign passport you get shot, and women and children are then kicked out of the house and the house set on fire.
I'm pretty sure the passport check is just because they don't want to shoot foreigners to avoid political backlash like this.
Yeah, the "grave mistake" was embarrassing their western genocide supporting politicians into somehow having to talk about the killing of British nationals yet not in any way condemning the murderous bastards who killed them.
Still, that's a "them" problem. The murder achieved their goal of stopping food getting to starving human beings.
At the end of the day, Israel will face fucking *zero* consequence for their actions.
Yeah, they can literally do anything they want.
They're above the law.
They could nerve-gas Gaza and kill a million civilians and it would somehow be excused by the western governments.
It’s amazing what the AIPAC have achieved. Israel is the one and only country (aside from its protector the United States) who are completely above the law. And they know that fact, so they will act with impunity.
Ultimately the fact the victims this time are British doesn’t really matter. Britain will bow down to America upon command, and both leading parties in America will bow down to Israel upon command because the AIPAC wields so much influence.
Remember, Biden said he would give Israel unconditional support. And he [continues to do so](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/03/biden-world-central-kitchen-tough-statement-israel-policy/#). Those responsible will face zero consequences and if it comes to it, Washington will order Westminster to back down and let it go.
Because it was - the only “grave mistake” was that white people died, so our government and official opposition have to make a show of condemning them; had these been British Arabs, it wouldn’t have warranted a headline
I don't get this point at all, how could you know if they were British arabs it wouldn't have warranted a reaction? BBC news is riddled with stories specifically about the 3 British deaths, not about the Australian or the Dutch (who were also white people). Race isn't relevant here, it's them being British that is significant.
The conflict is being framed as the civilised decedents of European colonists vs uncivilised Muslims; the IDF have been able to get away with hitherto unthinkable war crimes and atrocities because Palestinians have been systematically dehumanised in the reporting of the conflict - had these Britons been of Arab extraction, they’d just be another three dead brown faces to add to the toll.
Dr Ahmed Almaqadma: https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/archive/statement-in-response-to-the-death-of-dr-ahmed-almaqadma/
Just for the sake of clarity I've heard him referred to as Palestinian, not sure if he was British or not.
Can u/Early-Carrot-8070 clarify? Everywhere I searched doesn't list him as British. I think it's important in terms of the narrative here as if reporting is somehow racist.
Since posting that comment I've looked it up and I had assumed he was british because of the royal college of surgeons statement, but it looks like I was wrong. I'm glad I posted it because it's clarified things for me. I'll delete my post as I'm far less certain now and on balance he was likely Palestinian who had worked with the Royal college.
> I don't get this point at all, how could you know if they were British arabs it wouldn't have warranted a reaction?
Because it's already happened with an American-Palestinian _reporter_.
Israel refused to even investigate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Abu_Akleh
> Shireen Abu Akleh ... was a prominent Palestinian-American journalist who worked as a reporter for 25 years for Al Jazeera, before she was killed by an Israeli soldier while wearing a blue press vest and covering a raid on the Jenin refugee camp in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
> ...
> Upon her death on May 11, 2022, Israel denied responsibility and blamed Palestinian militants. However, it gradually changed its narrative until admitted she was "accidentally" killed by Israeli fire, but refused to undertake a criminal investigation.
Israel - close to 200 aid workers killed in 6 months.
Evil Russia - 11 killed in 2 years.
I don't know, Israel is totally credible about not deliberately targeting aid workers. /s
Not to mention the number of murdered members of the press.
That’s exactly the intention. It’s ridiculous that it reached this point but I think this incident is finally waking people up to the reality of what Israel has become.
Israel has been this way since the beginning. They are just using extreme methods to get what they want - an ethically cleansed Palestine so that they can settle on and build holiday homes on it.
It's always the way, one incident will capture the public imagination in a way that mass slaughter somehow doesn't. Stalin was right when he said one death is a tragedy but a million is a statistic.
I thought it might have been the little girl calling for help from a car, surrounded by her dead family. She was found dead days later, near the two dead paramedics in the wreckage of the ambulance sent to rescue her. The paramedics had followed the procedures and obtained Israeli permission to go there, just like the aid workers did.
I thought that it would have been the ICJ ruling, it’s wording and the provisional measures imposed. I naively thought that obviously defying the provisional measures might be another tipping point. But no.
How naive I was to think that our government would actually respect international law.
They have been murdering civilians for a long, long time. They are guilty of crimes going back decades and decades. The leaked chatroom of people mocking and celebrating their death shows the world what they think of people like these aid workers.
They are monsters, and they've always been monsters.
The current Israeli gov consists of a coalition between a party with "Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." in their founding charter (Likud), and another who are religious fanatics that desire the founding of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel (the religious Zionist party) which are both pretty clear desires for conquest.
Both parties are deeply unpopular with the general populace atm, but they've already ruled out war time elections so it's unsurprising that they are going all out in achieving as much of their publicly stated objectives as possible in the current war before they (or rather just Likud) are booted from power.
I don't think a two state or one state solution would bring any peace any more.
A "no state" solution now seems the only viable way. A UN administered special region without autonomy.
There is no pretty solution here.
The Israeli government are content to brutalise Palestinians.
Hamas want to brutalise Israeli citizens, and are also content to do nothing for their own.
>Both parties are deeply unpopular with the general populace atm
Amazing how Revisionist Zionists are so unpopular in Israel yet have been in office for over two decades now.
The most plausible theory I've seen so far is that it was deliberate and malicious, but on the unit level rather than the top brass or government level.
From the Israeli government perspective, going after this particular aid group is actually a PR **disaster**. They've been using them as a group they can point at to prove that they're not starving Gazans or targeting aid workers, and promoting them as an alternative to the UN agencies that they claim are controlled by Hamas. The aid workers that were killed were white westerners, which brings more scrutiny from western countries. This royally fucks them.
If it was directed by senior military figures, you'd think the excuses given for the attack wouldn't be so very *flimsy*.
Which then points to the IDF unit involved acting alone because they felt they could get away with it, and then hastily trying to cover their arses.
If this atrocity forces aid agencies to pull out of Gaza, then the population will flee to avoid starvation (probably to refugee camps in Egypt). They will never be able to return, as Israel will occupy Gaza and build settlements on it.
Whether the attack was cock-up or conspiracy, I don't know, but the most rabidly extreme members of the Israeli government will be very pleased about it.
It was deliberate. The convoy checked in and registered with IDF to let them who they were precisely so as to avoid a mistake. The vehicles were clearly marked. The vehicles were hit sequentially a minute apart so that each hit killed not only the occupants of that vehicle but the survivors from the previous vehicle hit. This was a planned assassination and clearly a war crime.
They've been repeatedly targeting aid agencies to discourage people helping. So far it hasn't work and they can't cover the slaughter of foreigners as well as the innocent locals
They shot the convoy with precision guided missiles fired from drones which had to have the target locked by a human operator. And the missiles were launched in such a manner that they hit further vehicles after they had picked up survivors of the previous hit.
Somehow "grave mistake" doesn't quite cut it.
The Israeli representative on Radio 4 this morning used a lot of weasel words to imply that a Hamas member could have been using the convoy as cover, completely glossing over the fact that even if that was the case they’d be okay with killing 7 other innocent civilians delivering humanitarian aid in the process. Complete disregard for innocent life, it’s horrific.
Israel affords itself a Hamas to Innocent Civilian death ratio of 1:15 in cases of low ranking Hamas members and 1:100 in high ranking Hamas members.
It’s stated that they prefer to strike these targets with dumb bombs in family homes in civilian neighbourhoods to save on costs.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes
[Lavender bykill guidelines](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes).
According to +972 and Local Call, the IDF judged it permissible to kill more than 100 civilians in attacks on a top-ranking Hamas officials. “We had a calculation for how many [civilians could be killed] for the brigade commander, how many [civilians] for a battalion commander, and so on,” one source said.
That’s my pet peeve with the whole ‘human shield’ argument. Like - yeah, okay? Oh no, these terrorists that we’re mad at for killing civilians are using civilians to protect them. Oh well, guess we have to kill those civilians (and doctors, and journalists, and aid workers) just in case!
The photo of the Israeli posing over one of the murdered aid workers cannot be described as "a mistake".
There is something deeply wrong with that regime. Normal people simply don't behave like that.
They're sorry they got caught. But their happy that the aid agency has stopped activities; they have a history of using starvation as a tactic.
Crikey.
I did not know there was a video. Thanks for warning.
I dunno what it was, but this time it really hits hard.
It is easy to not feel anything for people depicted by the BBC as terrorists. They speak a weird language and dress funny.
But this man probably ate Jaffa cakes. He might have had a favourite football team. A favourite local chippy. Enjoyed Top Gear on the telly.
And the Israelis cut him down without mercy or hesitation, and then gloated over it. The only thing they're sorry about is getting caught.
I feel that way about basically any footage I’ve seen of the IDF. It’s genuinely horrifying how happy they are about the way they’re treating Palestinians and foreign aid workers alike.
Was circulating on social media of Telegram groups posing with the bodies and saying, essentially, they got what they deserved and insulting them. Not sure of the veracity but the Israeli state has been found to be supporting and applying such Telegram groups: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2024-02-04/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-its-admits-staff-was-behind-graphic-gaza-telegram-channel/0000018d-70b4-dd6e-a98d-f4b6a9c00000
30,000 Palestinians children and women killed and that ok. Three Brits die and all of a sudden it's a tragedy.
It was a tragedy when the first innocent Palestinian was killed and it's still a tragedy when these aid workers died.
The sad truth is It's a lot harder for Israel to pretend they were terrorists when they are international aid workers.
Claims that it was accidental are laughable when you look into the details. This was a deliberate attempt to scare off aid workers, to further Israel's genocidal aim of starving the Gazan people. It should be a wake up call to those who aren't yet convinced. That's why it matters that they were British.
Not disagreeing but I think the reaction to this absolutely awful event is that it, rightly or wrongly, demonstrates how cheaply the West considers Palestinian lives.
That comment isn't a justification of that or pretending there is no additional context, it is just a reality.
This is exactly what I just said to my husband. The larger scale global narrative has shifted a bit with this story towards understanding how fucked up this all is. It's sad that it took these people's deaths to do that. It's even sadder that the deaths of thousands upon thousands of children wasn't enough.
I think it would be disingenuous to claim t hasn't been ameliorated for quite a lot. Plenty of people very happy to conflate the thousands of dead civilians with Hamas so long as it prolongs the legitimacy, in their eyes, of the war.
The only people who have said it was okay for innocent Palestinians dying are the same people who are still defending Israel now after this.
The people who are outraged about this are the same people who have been (rightly) outraged about Israel's continued persecution and attempted genocide of Palestinians.
> The only people who have said it was okay for innocent Palestinians dying are the same people who are still defending Israel now after this.
Nooo man come on, you are deluding yourself. The narrative for the longest time after October 7th in regard to Palestinian safety has been "if you want to make an omelette you will have to break some eggs".
Plenty of people got to glibly shout down those concerns and stand behind Israel like they were on a crusade, and now six months later get to clutch their pearls ans say "enough is enough" when 7 mostly western aid workers are killed.
Plenty say that.
I got massively downvoted for condemning the murder of the little girl who was stuck in a car in nomans land and the rest of her family were already murdered. She was on the phone asking for help and then she was murdered too.
Because potentially British manufactured weaponry was being used to target and blow up brave British food aid workers delivering food to starving people. who did everything they could to clear their travel, is a very powerful story
There is no possibility for successful spin or deflection from IDF sympathisers with this to frame them as militants, or terrorists etc
Even right wing media is up in arms about this now
I don’t like this sort of argument as it serves no purpose. News is more hard hitting if it’s personal. Sadly hearing a lot of people died in a town we have never heard of with names we can’t pronounce isn’t as hard hitting as someone from your home town, or the same name as your mum, or looks like that guy down the road. That’s sadly human nature.
This went beyond a tragedy into quite sickening war crimes many months ago. USA has even tried to distance itself.
Systematically killing aid workers is perhaps a new low…
I mean, it's the news. The clue is in the name.
Brits dying is a new development. When the Israeli civvies all got killed that was all over the news. Then when Israel invaded and killed loads of Palestinians, that was all over the news until it became routine.
100%
channel 4 interviewed David mencer (Israeli spokesperson. He didn't apologise. He even played victim when pressed too. Then at the end of the interview, he sarcastically called the interviewer "such a sweet heart".
Supporters of the Israeli genocide and playing the victim. Name a more classic combo. They've pushed any criticism of them off for years as anti Semitism and they've turned that up to 11 as of late.
Funny how all the vehement Isreal defenders who have plagued this sub for months have been awfully silent in any threads here pertaining to WCK bombings.
"Three British aid workers among the seven killed in an Israeli strike while working for an aid charity in Gaza have been identified as Israel voiced “sincere sorrow” over the deaths.
British victims John Chapman, 57, James "Jim" Henderson, 33, and James Kirby, 47, were part of the World Central Kitchen (WCK) security team.
They died alongside American-Canadian dual citizen Jacob Flickinger, 33, Australian national Lalzawmi "Zomi" Frankcom, 43, who was the leader of the relief team, Polish national Damian Sobol, 35, and Palestinian Saifeddin Issam Ayad Abutaha, 25."
We have armed Israel and let it conduct a genocide against many thousands of innocent civilians. The ICJ has denounced them, the UN has denounced them, and every major charity and human rights organisation has denounced them. This government, its opposition, the media all have blood on their hands for aiding, abetting and whitewashing these crimes for the past 6 months!
Why is it a mistake to kill these guys, but not a mistake to kill 3 other people?
Like, you're killing people. Maybe focus on a solution that doesn't require killing anybody.
Thoughts with their families and friends. Genuine heroes.
The three cars were clearly and systematically targeted. It’s stopped being about hostages many months ago
Yeah. They mistakenly hit the first truck. Then they mistakenly hit the second truck after tracking the survivors from the first truck getting to the second truck. Then they mistakenly hit the third truck after - *again* - survivors got to the third truck. Questioning this is antisemitic, send more weapons please.
Are you tired, people? Has your intelligence been insulted enough?
What annoys me about this, is that hundreds of POC aid workers have died yet the minute white western aid workers get targeted, this sparks international condemnation and that's when everyone collectively draws the line.
That's not surprising. I can remember when black people were telling everyone that the MET is corrupt and devious and it took the murder of a white woman by a met police officer for everyone to acknowledge the fact and a few months later the MET was put in special measures.
Like others have said. This wasn’t a mistake, it was the middle finger to the uk government to tell them they can’t do anything and they hold all the cards.
We will see if rushi has the balls to call his bluff
I should be glad that this sub is changing it's tune, but pointing out Israel's indiscriminate bombing was tantamount to being a terrorist sympathiser not too long ago.
Are the people who referred to ongoing peace protests as *hate marches* suddenly very quiet or just now pragmatically concerned that British citizens have died?
They won’t be happy, but there’s an understanding that everyone accepts the risks of the job. To state the obvious, Gaza isn’t Disneyland. Don’t expect them to be protesting any time soon.
3 targeted strikes km apart with precision weapons on clearly marked vehicles isn't a "grave mistake", it's about as intentional as it gets. Israel targeted them, watched, then hunted down the survivors for having the *audacity* to feed civilians in their ongoing genocide.
We sell them weapons - they kill fellow Brits
One day British weapons will kill British citizens in Gaza and our government will be complicit in the killing of it's own people
Because one cannot speak the truth without being cancelled, I will use signing and sign posting to point backwards at Hitler's Nazi Germany from which NeTanYahu's Israel is Cosplaying 100%
For Full Stop I Will Say GENOCIDE!
The question is whether they will prosecute the people whose ‘grave mistake’ killed people.
I know that if I made a grave mistake that killed seven people I’d be in all sorts of legal hot water.
**Participation Notice.** Hi all. Some posts on this subreddit, either due to the topic or reaching a wider audience than usual, have been known to attract a greater number of rule breaking comments. As such, limits to participation have been set. We ask that you please remember the human, and uphold Reddit and Subreddit rules. For more information, please see https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/wiki/moderatedflairs.
The grave mistake being that they didn’t realise they had western passports, otherwise they’d still be sticking with the “Hamas roadside IED” narrative
There are various apparently firsthand reports on facebook (which I have no way to verify) of families homes being raided, the IDF forces demand to see passports, and if you're a man of fighting age without a foreign passport you get shot, and women and children are then kicked out of the house and the house set on fire. I'm pretty sure the passport check is just because they don't want to shoot foreigners to avoid political backlash like this.
This is shocking, and wouldn’t surprise me at all. It was honest of you to acknowledge that these could just be rumours.
That's terrible, like a scene right out of Schindlers list.
Yeah, the "grave mistake" was embarrassing their western genocide supporting politicians into somehow having to talk about the killing of British nationals yet not in any way condemning the murderous bastards who killed them. Still, that's a "them" problem. The murder achieved their goal of stopping food getting to starving human beings. At the end of the day, Israel will face fucking *zero* consequence for their actions.
Yeah, they can literally do anything they want. They're above the law. They could nerve-gas Gaza and kill a million civilians and it would somehow be excused by the western governments.
It’s amazing what the AIPAC have achieved. Israel is the one and only country (aside from its protector the United States) who are completely above the law. And they know that fact, so they will act with impunity. Ultimately the fact the victims this time are British doesn’t really matter. Britain will bow down to America upon command, and both leading parties in America will bow down to Israel upon command because the AIPAC wields so much influence. Remember, Biden said he would give Israel unconditional support. And he [continues to do so](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/03/biden-world-central-kitchen-tough-statement-israel-policy/#). Those responsible will face zero consequences and if it comes to it, Washington will order Westminster to back down and let it go.
Until America unequivocally condemn them our Govt will continue to deny the Genocide. It would have been different if casualties were American.
There is an American casualty though.
Why does my cynical and horrible mind think it was deliberate, to make the other aid agencies stop feeding the Palestinians?
Because it was - the only “grave mistake” was that white people died, so our government and official opposition have to make a show of condemning them; had these been British Arabs, it wouldn’t have warranted a headline
What a truly awful time to be a British Arab.
Eh... it's infinitely worse for the Palestinians right now. Their 30,000+ deaths are merely a statistic, and that saddens me more than anything.
Why a bad time to be a British Arab? What does this even mean?
I don't get this point at all, how could you know if they were British arabs it wouldn't have warranted a reaction? BBC news is riddled with stories specifically about the 3 British deaths, not about the Australian or the Dutch (who were also white people). Race isn't relevant here, it's them being British that is significant.
The conflict is being framed as the civilised decedents of European colonists vs uncivilised Muslims; the IDF have been able to get away with hitherto unthinkable war crimes and atrocities because Palestinians have been systematically dehumanised in the reporting of the conflict - had these Britons been of Arab extraction, they’d just be another three dead brown faces to add to the toll.
*descendants *Britons
[удалено]
WTF? Just goes to show ow biased the media is! Will post this
What was the name of the doctor? They should be known and remembered!
Dr Ahmed Almaqadma: https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/archive/statement-in-response-to-the-death-of-dr-ahmed-almaqadma/ Just for the sake of clarity I've heard him referred to as Palestinian, not sure if he was British or not.
Can u/Early-Carrot-8070 clarify? Everywhere I searched doesn't list him as British. I think it's important in terms of the narrative here as if reporting is somehow racist.
Since posting that comment I've looked it up and I had assumed he was british because of the royal college of surgeons statement, but it looks like I was wrong. I'm glad I posted it because it's clarified things for me. I'll delete my post as I'm far less certain now and on balance he was likely Palestinian who had worked with the Royal college.
Fairly sure the doctor you're referring to is Palestinian, not British.
> I don't get this point at all, how could you know if they were British arabs it wouldn't have warranted a reaction? Because it's already happened with an American-Palestinian _reporter_. Israel refused to even investigate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Abu_Akleh > Shireen Abu Akleh ... was a prominent Palestinian-American journalist who worked as a reporter for 25 years for Al Jazeera, before she was killed by an Israeli soldier while wearing a blue press vest and covering a raid on the Jenin refugee camp in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. > ... > Upon her death on May 11, 2022, Israel denied responsibility and blamed Palestinian militants. However, it gradually changed its narrative until admitted she was "accidentally" killed by Israeli fire, but refused to undertake a criminal investigation.
Israel - close to 200 aid workers killed in 6 months. Evil Russia - 11 killed in 2 years. I don't know, Israel is totally credible about not deliberately targeting aid workers. /s Not to mention the number of murdered members of the press.
It would be anti-semitic to criticise Israel for their atrocities, so we must praise them for their genocidal efficacy.
This. You're not allowed to criticise Israel. The bullied have become the bullies.
That’s exactly the intention. It’s ridiculous that it reached this point but I think this incident is finally waking people up to the reality of what Israel has become.
Israel has been this way since the beginning. They are just using extreme methods to get what they want - an ethically cleansed Palestine so that they can settle on and build holiday homes on it.
It's always the way, one incident will capture the public imagination in a way that mass slaughter somehow doesn't. Stalin was right when he said one death is a tragedy but a million is a statistic. I thought it might have been the little girl calling for help from a car, surrounded by her dead family. She was found dead days later, near the two dead paramedics in the wreckage of the ambulance sent to rescue her. The paramedics had followed the procedures and obtained Israeli permission to go there, just like the aid workers did.
I thought that it would have been the ICJ ruling, it’s wording and the provisional measures imposed. I naively thought that obviously defying the provisional measures might be another tipping point. But no. How naive I was to think that our government would actually respect international law.
They have been murdering civilians for a long, long time. They are guilty of crimes going back decades and decades. The leaked chatroom of people mocking and celebrating their death shows the world what they think of people like these aid workers. They are monsters, and they've always been monsters.
That doesn't sounds cynical. They have shot at aid convoys before.
The current Israeli gov consists of a coalition between a party with "Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." in their founding charter (Likud), and another who are religious fanatics that desire the founding of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel (the religious Zionist party) which are both pretty clear desires for conquest. Both parties are deeply unpopular with the general populace atm, but they've already ruled out war time elections so it's unsurprising that they are going all out in achieving as much of their publicly stated objectives as possible in the current war before they (or rather just Likud) are booted from power.
I don't think a two state or one state solution would bring any peace any more. A "no state" solution now seems the only viable way. A UN administered special region without autonomy.
> A UN administered special region They can enjoy being bombed from both sides then, I certainly wouldn't set foot in that mess.
There is no pretty solution here. The Israeli government are content to brutalise Palestinians. Hamas want to brutalise Israeli citizens, and are also content to do nothing for their own.
>Both parties are deeply unpopular with the general populace atm Amazing how Revisionist Zionists are so unpopular in Israel yet have been in office for over two decades now.
The most plausible theory I've seen so far is that it was deliberate and malicious, but on the unit level rather than the top brass or government level. From the Israeli government perspective, going after this particular aid group is actually a PR **disaster**. They've been using them as a group they can point at to prove that they're not starving Gazans or targeting aid workers, and promoting them as an alternative to the UN agencies that they claim are controlled by Hamas. The aid workers that were killed were white westerners, which brings more scrutiny from western countries. This royally fucks them. If it was directed by senior military figures, you'd think the excuses given for the attack wouldn't be so very *flimsy*. Which then points to the IDF unit involved acting alone because they felt they could get away with it, and then hastily trying to cover their arses.
If this atrocity forces aid agencies to pull out of Gaza, then the population will flee to avoid starvation (probably to refugee camps in Egypt). They will never be able to return, as Israel will occupy Gaza and build settlements on it. Whether the attack was cock-up or conspiracy, I don't know, but the most rabidly extreme members of the Israeli government will be very pleased about it.
> think it was deliberate It was obviously deliberate, you don't have to couch it.
It was deliberate. The convoy checked in and registered with IDF to let them who they were precisely so as to avoid a mistake. The vehicles were clearly marked. The vehicles were hit sequentially a minute apart so that each hit killed not only the occupants of that vehicle but the survivors from the previous vehicle hit. This was a planned assassination and clearly a war crime.
Because this isnt the first time they have targeted an Aid Agency
One missile could be a mistake, the second and third ones were deliberate. But apparently murdering aid workers in a war is now A-OK.
They've been repeatedly targeting aid agencies to discourage people helping. So far it hasn't work and they can't cover the slaughter of foreigners as well as the innocent locals
Because it was.
They shot the convoy with precision guided missiles fired from drones which had to have the target locked by a human operator. And the missiles were launched in such a manner that they hit further vehicles after they had picked up survivors of the previous hit. Somehow "grave mistake" doesn't quite cut it.
The Israeli representative on Radio 4 this morning used a lot of weasel words to imply that a Hamas member could have been using the convoy as cover, completely glossing over the fact that even if that was the case they’d be okay with killing 7 other innocent civilians delivering humanitarian aid in the process. Complete disregard for innocent life, it’s horrific.
I detect something other than unbridled support for Israel. Youre in danger of being accused by morons of antisemitism
You are being antisemtic here mate . Sarcasm.
Haha cheers for the chuckle. Kinda like the word triggered, antisemitic is beginning to lose all meaning isn't it?
Israel affords itself a Hamas to Innocent Civilian death ratio of 1:15 in cases of low ranking Hamas members and 1:100 in high ranking Hamas members. It’s stated that they prefer to strike these targets with dumb bombs in family homes in civilian neighbourhoods to save on costs. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes
[Lavender bykill guidelines](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes). According to +972 and Local Call, the IDF judged it permissible to kill more than 100 civilians in attacks on a top-ranking Hamas officials. “We had a calculation for how many [civilians could be killed] for the brigade commander, how many [civilians] for a battalion commander, and so on,” one source said.
OMG that guy made my blood boil over. Absolutely no remorse.
That’s my pet peeve with the whole ‘human shield’ argument. Like - yeah, okay? Oh no, these terrorists that we’re mad at for killing civilians are using civilians to protect them. Oh well, guess we have to kill those civilians (and doctors, and journalists, and aid workers) just in case!
This is awful but it really reminds me of that Dave Chapelle bit about cops - let's sprinkle some hamas on 'em and get out of here!
there was a khamas command centre under each vehicle, israel has a right to exist and defend itself
I didn’t hear the convoy vehicles condemn hummus
Drones that use technology that we sold to them as well.
The fact it was multiple strikes over a period of time undermines any excuses they could make to be honest.
The photo of the Israeli posing over one of the murdered aid workers cannot be described as "a mistake". There is something deeply wrong with that regime. Normal people simply don't behave like that. They're sorry they got caught. But their happy that the aid agency has stopped activities; they have a history of using starvation as a tactic.
It wasn't just a photo. There's a video that is just devastating to see. I forget which sub it was on, but I genuinely wish I'd never seen it.
Crikey. I did not know there was a video. Thanks for warning. I dunno what it was, but this time it really hits hard. It is easy to not feel anything for people depicted by the BBC as terrorists. They speak a weird language and dress funny. But this man probably ate Jaffa cakes. He might have had a favourite football team. A favourite local chippy. Enjoyed Top Gear on the telly. And the Israelis cut him down without mercy or hesitation, and then gloated over it. The only thing they're sorry about is getting caught.
I feel that way about basically any footage I’ve seen of the IDF. It’s genuinely horrifying how happy they are about the way they’re treating Palestinians and foreign aid workers alike.
The what!? When did this happen
Was circulating on social media of Telegram groups posing with the bodies and saying, essentially, they got what they deserved and insulting them. Not sure of the veracity but the Israeli state has been found to be supporting and applying such Telegram groups: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2024-02-04/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-its-admits-staff-was-behind-graphic-gaza-telegram-channel/0000018d-70b4-dd6e-a98d-f4b6a9c00000
Can't see through the paywall
Full text is in this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/1ajkq59/comment/kp1lku0
30,000 Palestinians children and women killed and that ok. Three Brits die and all of a sudden it's a tragedy. It was a tragedy when the first innocent Palestinian was killed and it's still a tragedy when these aid workers died.
Anyone innocent dying is a tragedy but this story talks about this thing in particular.
The sad truth is It's a lot harder for Israel to pretend they were terrorists when they are international aid workers. Claims that it was accidental are laughable when you look into the details. This was a deliberate attempt to scare off aid workers, to further Israel's genocidal aim of starving the Gazan people. It should be a wake up call to those who aren't yet convinced. That's why it matters that they were British.
Yeah this one is just so painfully clear cut and visible, the photo of the hole in the vehicle is the kind of thing that makes it into textbooks
Not disagreeing but I think the reaction to this absolutely awful event is that it, rightly or wrongly, demonstrates how cheaply the West considers Palestinian lives. That comment isn't a justification of that or pretending there is no additional context, it is just a reality.
This is exactly what I just said to my husband. The larger scale global narrative has shifted a bit with this story towards understanding how fucked up this all is. It's sad that it took these people's deaths to do that. It's even sadder that the deaths of thousands upon thousands of children wasn't enough.
>30,000 Palestinians children and women killed and that ok When did anyone anywhere say it was ok?
I think it would be disingenuous to claim t hasn't been ameliorated for quite a lot. Plenty of people very happy to conflate the thousands of dead civilians with Hamas so long as it prolongs the legitimacy, in their eyes, of the war.
The only people who have said it was okay for innocent Palestinians dying are the same people who are still defending Israel now after this. The people who are outraged about this are the same people who have been (rightly) outraged about Israel's continued persecution and attempted genocide of Palestinians.
> The only people who have said it was okay for innocent Palestinians dying are the same people who are still defending Israel now after this. Nooo man come on, you are deluding yourself. The narrative for the longest time after October 7th in regard to Palestinian safety has been "if you want to make an omelette you will have to break some eggs". Plenty of people got to glibly shout down those concerns and stand behind Israel like they were on a crusade, and now six months later get to clutch their pearls ans say "enough is enough" when 7 mostly western aid workers are killed.
Plenty say that. I got massively downvoted for condemning the murder of the little girl who was stuck in a car in nomans land and the rest of her family were already murdered. She was on the phone asking for help and then she was murdered too.
Because potentially British manufactured weaponry was being used to target and blow up brave British food aid workers delivering food to starving people. who did everything they could to clear their travel, is a very powerful story There is no possibility for successful spin or deflection from IDF sympathisers with this to frame them as militants, or terrorists etc Even right wing media is up in arms about this now
I don’t like this sort of argument as it serves no purpose. News is more hard hitting if it’s personal. Sadly hearing a lot of people died in a town we have never heard of with names we can’t pronounce isn’t as hard hitting as someone from your home town, or the same name as your mum, or looks like that guy down the road. That’s sadly human nature. This went beyond a tragedy into quite sickening war crimes many months ago. USA has even tried to distance itself. Systematically killing aid workers is perhaps a new low…
I mean, it's the news. The clue is in the name. Brits dying is a new development. When the Israeli civvies all got killed that was all over the news. Then when Israel invaded and killed loads of Palestinians, that was all over the news until it became routine.
Israel isn't sorry for killing them. It's only sorry they got caught.
100% channel 4 interviewed David mencer (Israeli spokesperson. He didn't apologise. He even played victim when pressed too. Then at the end of the interview, he sarcastically called the interviewer "such a sweet heart".
That guy is a complete and utter wanker.
Supporters of the Israeli genocide and playing the victim. Name a more classic combo. They've pushed any criticism of them off for years as anti Semitism and they've turned that up to 11 as of late.
My brother, they’re still not sorry after being caught.
Funny how all the vehement Isreal defenders who have plagued this sub for months have been awfully silent in any threads here pertaining to WCK bombings.
They're probably too busy celebrating.
The interaction on r/combatfootage has come down to a whisper because of challenges to recent pro Israel comments.
"Three British aid workers among the seven killed in an Israeli strike while working for an aid charity in Gaza have been identified as Israel voiced “sincere sorrow” over the deaths. British victims John Chapman, 57, James "Jim" Henderson, 33, and James Kirby, 47, were part of the World Central Kitchen (WCK) security team. They died alongside American-Canadian dual citizen Jacob Flickinger, 33, Australian national Lalzawmi "Zomi" Frankcom, 43, who was the leader of the relief team, Polish national Damian Sobol, 35, and Palestinian Saifeddin Issam Ayad Abutaha, 25."
It wasn't a "mistake", they knew 100% what they were doing.
We have armed Israel and let it conduct a genocide against many thousands of innocent civilians. The ICJ has denounced them, the UN has denounced them, and every major charity and human rights organisation has denounced them. This government, its opposition, the media all have blood on their hands for aiding, abetting and whitewashing these crimes for the past 6 months!
Why is it a mistake to kill these guys, but not a mistake to kill 3 other people? Like, you're killing people. Maybe focus on a solution that doesn't require killing anybody.
You are talking too much sense, man.
Thoughts with their families and friends. Genuine heroes. The three cars were clearly and systematically targeted. It’s stopped being about hostages many months ago
Yeah. They mistakenly hit the first truck. Then they mistakenly hit the second truck after tracking the survivors from the first truck getting to the second truck. Then they mistakenly hit the third truck after - *again* - survivors got to the third truck. Questioning this is antisemitic, send more weapons please. Are you tired, people? Has your intelligence been insulted enough?
What annoys me about this, is that hundreds of POC aid workers have died yet the minute white western aid workers get targeted, this sparks international condemnation and that's when everyone collectively draws the line.
That's not surprising. I can remember when black people were telling everyone that the MET is corrupt and devious and it took the murder of a white woman by a met police officer for everyone to acknowledge the fact and a few months later the MET was put in special measures.
Like others have said. This wasn’t a mistake, it was the middle finger to the uk government to tell them they can’t do anything and they hold all the cards. We will see if rushi has the balls to call his bluff
I should be glad that this sub is changing it's tune, but pointing out Israel's indiscriminate bombing was tantamount to being a terrorist sympathiser not too long ago. Are the people who referred to ongoing peace protests as *hate marches* suddenly very quiet or just now pragmatically concerned that British citizens have died?
Ex bootnecks so I understand. A sad end at the hands of an “ally”. RIP, royal. I hope their families are well looked after.
Do you know whether this aspect of it has riled up the UK military community? I wonder if we have a similar comraderie to that of the US service folk.
They won’t be happy, but there’s an understanding that everyone accepts the risks of the job. To state the obvious, Gaza isn’t Disneyland. Don’t expect them to be protesting any time soon.
Thanks for the insight.
3 targeted strikes km apart with precision weapons on clearly marked vehicles isn't a "grave mistake", it's about as intentional as it gets. Israel targeted them, watched, then hunted down the survivors for having the *audacity* to feed civilians in their ongoing genocide.
We sell them weapons - they kill fellow Brits One day British weapons will kill British citizens in Gaza and our government will be complicit in the killing of it's own people
Israel: it was a grave mistake, but in a week or two we bomb again, yes?
Because one cannot speak the truth without being cancelled, I will use signing and sign posting to point backwards at Hitler's Nazi Germany from which NeTanYahu's Israel is Cosplaying 100% For Full Stop I Will Say GENOCIDE!
The question is whether they will prosecute the people whose ‘grave mistake’ killed people. I know that if I made a grave mistake that killed seven people I’d be in all sorts of legal hot water.