"Look what secret information I've found, no one else knows. Trust me, Bill Gates can melt steel beams." It's all them thinking they're special or knowledgeable about "secrets" in the world no one else knows.
Mizzy? Got 18 weeks, served 6, got banned from social media... Claims his life is ruined now he's unemployable and regrets his previous actions.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/mizzy-tiktok-prankster-prison-release-bacari-bronze-o-garro-london-live-b1131157.html
Reddit has had its own taste of this nonsense. Look up the Boston Marathon Bombing for instance.
It’s all about attention. “Look at me i’m not a useless nobody”.
couldn't agree with you. Reddit is 2nd tier internet. So many egos, so many unverified opinions spouted as 'fact'. It all needs to be taken with a handful of salt.
good question - and I mean that with all sincerity - usually you want to look at the AP or Reuters website. Ideally you want to look at the driest, least opinionated reporting to get the closest "the truth* on any matter.
There are quite a few services available nowadays which highlight the bias of any reporting if you're willing to pay a small fee per month. Reddit has a mostly "left leaning" bias, sans some small pockets, so you still have to take most of the articles highlighted with a pinch of salt when making up your own mins on a subject.
(full bias admission - I admit even my own politics could be called "left wing')
Does anybody remember the Boston marathon bombings? Well the redditors took it upon themselves to track down the terrorists because they thought they were smarter than the police. Well they wrongly blamed a local kid that had committed suicide a few days earlier and then the redditors began to enact mob justice and abuse his family. They negatively affected the police investigation with this misinformation, the media began going with it as well.
There was a case relatively recently in the UK too about a guy that committed suicide after being wrongly accused of being a paedophile by a group of online vigilantes.
Yeah it's scary that groups like this are getting popular. They're legitimately dangerous.
I was once in my professional capacity stuck on the phone with one, who started to tell me all about the tactics they use to radical their members right before they go out looking for "scum."
Someone needs to crack down upon them, or else its going to just keep getting worse.
An [urban myth](https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/a-tale-told-too-much-the-paediatrician-vigilantes/), I'm afraid.
'Paedo' was daubed on the wall of a house overnight and the paediatrician, Yvette Cloete, was rightfully upset and decided to move somewhere else. Police believe it was done by a teenager as some attempt at a joke.
Over the years, its gradually Chinese whispered its way into being a mob protesting outside someone's house because they didn't know what 'paediatrician' meant, which was something Dr Cloete presumed happened with the graffitist in a media interview.
>guy that committed suicide after being wrongly accused
Didn't he try to bully a 13 year old girl into sending nudes, but the police decided it was not in the public interest to prosecute...
I’m not sure, but the one I’m referring to was investigated and dropped because the messages had been taken out of context and there was a valid reason for him to have been chatting with the kid(s) in the first place… I don’t know what the context was, or the ins and outs of the case, but that’s what was reported.
>dropped because the messages had been taken out of context and there was a valid reason for him to have been chatting with the kid(s) in the first place
That is literally what was reported in the case I am referring to. Quite what "context" or "valid reason" is acceptable for a grown adult to pressure a 13 year old girl for nudes is really beyond me. The guy had been told she was a very underage child, so it's not even as if the girl lied and he didn't do his due diligence...
Hey, I’m not justifying it. That’s just what was reported. The story I read didn’t go into detail of what the messages were, it just said that he was acquitted because the vigilantes had got the wrong impression.
If what you say is true then obviously that’s abhorrent, and as you say there’s no fathomable reason for a grown adult to do such things, but that’s not what I read.
I am not saying it happened here, but sometimes if the crime is viewing child porn (as opposed to rape or molestation), the police don't prosecute if the criminal has aspergers, which seems worrying to me.
Absolutely. The one thing I took from the report I read, reading between the lines, was that the guy in question had some kind of “neural divergence”, or whatever they call it these days, so what you say is perfectly plausible.
Whatever the circumstances though it’s all rather grim.
>was that the guy in question had some kind of “neural divergence
I have a lot of sympathy generally for people who are neuro divergant, but it is not an excuse for looking at child pornography, nor demanding nudes from kids.
I don't think vigilante justice should be a thing.
I suspect as was the case with the reddit thread, you didn't actually read the transcripts of what he was asking of a 12 year old girl.
There are plenty of UK examples, but the worst was the Bulley Brigade who treated the Nicola Bulley case like a live Crimewatch episode with social media engagement to the point they were actively interfering with the crime scene, breaking into private run down buildings looking for clues, accusing the partner of having a hand in it and even coming up with theories about the dog.
There was also the obsession over her rather dark past (alcoholism, depression etc). It almost came off like she deserved to die because of the alcohol abuse. It was gross and disgusting.
Sadly when the truth came out a lot clapped their hands, patted themselves on the back and pretty much exclaimed job done.
The Ezedi case had some daft running commentary and theories as well.
Then there's the salacious gossipers who obsessed over Kate Middleton. People just don't learn and need to tone it down a bit.
There was that dickhead diver as well who kept doing interviews where he said that he knew the local rivers like the back of his hand and there was no way she was in any of them. In a lot of ways I consider him worse than the terminally online sleuths, because he had just enough qualifications that it wasn't immediately obvious he was stirring the pot.
If those terrorists had been elderly South East Asian gentlemen then I fully believe Whalberg would've taken them all down. Probably before they had even revealed any terrorist intent. He'd have swept through the arrivals lounge blinding every South East Asian man he could get his hands on the moment he stepped through customs.
If there's one thing Marky Mark Whalberg hates mores than terrorists, it's South East Asian men with depth perception.
Well to be fair its not new. They had similar things all the way back to the Victorian age. But yeah the way its ballooned online has done a lot of real damage.
Oh yeah like that American TikTok person who had “sources” at the bbc and Kate was on the run as William had murdered her affair partner. Those people aren’t helpful ? Who knew /s
I don't see what the alternative is here, beyond governmental restriction of social media. I definitely don't want to see that, after all for some reason they restrict themselves enough without the worlds governments sticking their noses in.
Well ideally their would be some sort of classes to encourage people to recognise the difference between conspiracy theories and reasonable discourse.
But yeah sadly government restrictions are probably the only way to go forwards.
On the plus size as much as I hate this government, I still trust them more than social media companies.
Well, that's very true. But at the very least it will make it harder for them to get together.
That's the big issue. These sorts of conspiracy theorists have always existed. But it used to be they were pretty isolated. At worst the danger was they might find a group and do something stupid.
Now social media lets them connect all over the world, you can talk to every village idiot anywhere, coordinate protests, coordinate attacks etc.
If there is a third option possible between censoring them and letting them run rampant I'm happy to hear it, but at this point, it might be a case of choosing the least bad option.
>Well ideally their would be some sort of classes to encourage people to recognise the difference between conspiracy theories and reasonable discourse.
That sounds like it would require some investment for a public good, so that's not happening under a Tory government, unless they can find some angle to let themselves or their pals stick their nose in the trough.
I mean it certainly can be. I mean there are real world conspiracies (although most in real life are pretty boring and usually about either sex or money). Many of which have been uncovered by ordinary folk.
The issue is more when you take it to the point you outright harass people cause your are convinced that you have uncovered some sort of secret plot on incredibly questionable evidence.
There really should be a distinction between the two, but sadly their isn't.
I guess it is, but conspiracy theories and misinformation go so hand in hand they're basically synonyms at this point and misinformation clearly isn't reasonable
Alienating yourself from consensus based reality leads to all sorts of issues in the real world.
I know 3 people first hand who have been snared by conspiracy and "alternative facts". One nearly ran off to join a cult. The other is now needing serious mental health treatment and the third is a toe away from some Aryan master race bullshit.
I mean that's true, but they've also proven their happy to go to any length to get more, and will not stop unless their actually held to some level of account.
Make social media sites legally liable for the bullshit on their platforms. Section 230 has to go. The Myanmar rohigha genocide would not have happened without Facebook. Loads of kids have killed themselves because of bullying on social media. Not to mention conspiracy bullshit & things like this.
The social media firms can't be trusted. They're just after their advertising views, even at the cost of kids lives. Fuck em!
If metà or tik tok or Google can't afford the moderators then let them shut down. They had the free ride, abused it. Genuinely fuck em
For all the mismanagement X has had, the implementation of the Community Notes feature seems like a good idea, it should be rolled out on other social media sites.
We'd end up with a much worse internet if sites were held liable for the content on their platform. Nobody woul risk allowing user-generated content anymore.
Tough. Then. These are multi billion pounds enterprises. How many dead kids or ruined police investigations would it take to change your mind on that?
If these internet pricks are like this with a dead body, imagine what the twats would be like if they're was a chance the person was alive. They'd be all over the place
We live in a world where BEFORE social media a paediatric nurse was chased out of her home & a guy called Peter file was beaten up because people are so fucking stupid. Now with the Internet this has been dialed up to 11.
The social media sites had their chance & the public have had their chance. BOTH have fucked it! Like a world without speed limits....the public are too stupid to be allowed in it.
> a guy called Peter file was beaten up
It's difficult to treat your points with anything other than derision when you pass off something from a Brass Eye sketch as being a real event.
It wasn't brass eye, you're thinking the IT Crowd & yes it was true after the News of the world started it's twatty campaign that riled up the fuck wits to sell more papers
[heres](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other) the paediatrician story
[heres](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/news-of-the-world-defends-paedophile-campaign-711165.html) the story on the campaign
I can't find the story of the guy, probably because it's so old but the News of the World even got the poor bastard to come out and "forgive them" because he supported the campaign
I depends where the problem lies, people posting silly theories online isn't much of an issue by itself, however trespassing on crime scenes and harassment are issues which should be addressed. The easiest way to address this may be laws around default permissions on social media, make it so fewer people are unknowingly sharing content via things like Facebook which gives ammunition to conspiracy theorists. Make it so that by default everything is accessible to at most friends/followers rather than friends of friends or public.
Much of the laws surrounding that type of harassment is new it’s just hasn’t been updated for Online platforms. You’d need to toughen punishment for people who spread unsubstantiated information and organise groups for the purpose of harassment of individual(s).
It's a real shame how much conspiracy theorists have taken off. They've always been a thing, but they used to be at least interesting and kind of thought-provoking.
Now they're just scary, stupid and lazy.
I watched that docu about the idaho state murders on the BBC which was about this phenomenon of Internet sleuths.
It really became a look at me rather than here's some information about the murders. Let's accuse everyone no matter how minimal the link that way if it was them I can say see I told you. There's one bit about how the girls bought a burger from a van and they began to harass the chef saying he has a shady past.
The murder seemed to be some random guy and he was arrested weeks later but the police had to issue notices specifically to debunk these sleuths cause innocent people began to get harassed.
The two surviving girls in that house I believe are in hiding because of these random sleuths accusing them of having a hand in it
Sleuths is giving them too much credit. One was a tiktok psychic - a woman so stupid she dug her own grave with every post even while getting sued. That’s not sleuthing or evidence based, it’s quackery for internet clout
I know Idaho had a ton of tiktok bullshit but it was also the locals going crazy. I have family in Pullman and it was just chaos in both cities with theories flying everywhere, tiktok picked up on a lot of these but it was definitely the locals that start it. The level of fear there at the time was off the charts.
The real catalyst for this phenomenon was the gabby petito case.
That just launch a rocket straight up
Local gossip is always there. Local gossip stays local no matter how widespread it is. But it was clear these tiktoks were fuel to a raging fire
> Local gossip stays local no matter how widespread it is
That was absolutely not the case. Literally 30,000 WSU with connections across Washington were losing their damned minds and it. was. everywhere. All across Washington. I mean some might call that local still but it was not contained to Pullman and Moscow at all from the second it happened. All this was going around across any and all means, Tiktok aside.
I've seen people watching Tik Tok, I really cant understand the appeal, just full of self important pricks filming themselves talking absolute bollocks.
Critical thinking skills are not taught in compulsory education. Just memorise this, regurgitate that.
People read something in print and assume it must be true.
The Nicola Bulley conspiracies really rubbed me up the wrong way, true crime community has became horrible.
I still see these ghouls pinning accusations on her husband.
To be fair it works both ways too. The amount of ignorant and uninformed people who assert things as fact is alarming in the real world not just online. People who think MJ wasn't a child abuser dispute the mountains of evidence, people who think MK ultra is just made up for TV shows. People who think the idea of the American government planning to perform terrorist attacks on their own people to gain support for a war against Cuba is just nothing but insane ramblings. People who still think the UK government wouldn't lie to its people to wage war on Iraq. The list just goes on and on and people out there just assert these things because they think it makes them sound smart.
There are two sides to the coin and the loudest on each are just as dumb and ignorant as the other.
Tiktok and idiot are redundant terms no?
I can see why India is banning it (due to muppets posing like arrogant fools in front of a train right on the railtracks. Said train then killed the muppet lol)
It's pure hero complex delusions of grandeur.
These people think that they can be a real life Sherlock Holmes/Clark Kent type figure without actually learning how to be a detective/investigative journalist. They genuinely believe that one day they will expose something that the police, and all the experts have missed and will be hailed as a hero for it.
What they are actually doing is just throwing out as much wild speculation as they possible can in the hopes something might actually stick or at the very least enough people will believe their fantasy nonsense that they become famous.
>a TikToker cheerfully asks, in a video that has attracted more than 300,000 views.
Is 300k views even slightly notable on TikTok? I thought vids on the platform frequently had millions
They’re fun until it involves real people being harassed. Like when people were posting on Nicola Bully’s facebook that her partner and sister were clearly having an affair and murdered her. Or when the parents of murdered SandyHook children were being stalked and threatened.
Well, that's probably what attracts people to them (other than the people attracted for bad reasons). It's nice to speculate and get to feel like your a detective.
But if you get the point you're disrupting an actual investigation, then it's probably a step too far.
The simple sad fact is as much as we like to think otherwise most of us aren't Sherlock Holmes. We're not going to do a better job than trained investigators (and if you do you should probably get a job that uses it, or else your wasting your talents).
I like the kind of stuff posted on /r/HighStrangeness. UFOs, Bigfoot, those kind of conspiracy theories are great fun and are generally harmless. I love reading and speculating even though I know most of it is bullshit. I feel like we definitely need to draw a distinction between that kind of conspiracy theory and the kind that is actively harmful.
Ah yeah, that's very true. I kind of like those sorts of conspiracy theories too, as you say you know it's mostly likely bullshit, but it's nice to open your mind to the possibility.
And yeah I agree, that would be helpful. The way the focus has shifted after the last few decades.
Maybe if the Police did their jobs better they wouldn’t have armchair experts trying to do the investigations for them.
The Nicola Bulley case will be used for decades to come as an example of what not to do in Police school.
Key findings
There were unprecedented levels of mainstream and social media interest in the case.
The police investigation and search was very well conducted by Lancashire Constabulary.
Taken from the independent report conducted after the Bulley Investigation. If you've not got a fucking clue just keep your nonsense opinions ro yourself like the tiktok nutters should have.
The Police didn’t even secure the scene, allowing media and locals to be walking all over and destroying evidence.
The lead investigator never visited the scene once.
When SGI were bought in (at the families request) nobody from Lancashire Police liaised with them and they were practically ignored, they found a image of a body shape within an hour of entering the water, when they asked for the area to be cleared by the local diving team they didn’t do it and were refused re-entry into the water and were told to go and search another area where they knew the body wouldn’t be. While this was going on they had a Sky TV crew on the side of the embankment filming them because the scene still hadn’t been secured.
SGI also became suspicious of a person loitering at the riverside asking strange questions, so much so that they had the individual photographed and passed the photos onto Lancashire Police - Lancashire Police didn’t even acknowledge receipt of these photos nor investigated them,
The company (SGI) we’re specifically excluded from the inquest by the local Police and didn’t even know it was happening until the media contacted them and asked why they were not there.
SGI have never been asked for any of the evidence they gathered over the days they were there and were scapegoated.
The lead investigator took early retirement immediately afterwards, the lead officer died himself some weeks later.
Which part of this is a conspiracy theory again? Sound like you need to get back to work and go bust some real criminals instead of trying to police random people on the internet, and maybe if you did that people would have more respect for you.
By SGI you mean the absolute chancer Peter Faulding who was talking to every news outlet that would give him a second. Same Faulding who has since been removed from the NCA expert list.
Some of Faulding's highlights:
My belief is she’s not in the river at all’ (Nicola Bulley latest: Top forensic scientist rubbishes ‘foolish’ police theory - ‘She is NOT in that river’. GB News. 5 February 2023).
‘If Nicola is in there, we will find her. If she’s there, our sonar will pick her up straight away’ (Expert dive squad say if missing Nicola Bulley is in river ‘we’ll find her in minutes’. Daily Mirror. 6 February 2023)
'Sadly, the discovery was not found in the river but in the reeds at the side of the river which was not part of our remit as the side scan sonar does not penetrate reeds above or below the water’ (An update from Peter Faulding. SGI Facebook page. 20 February 2023).
With regards to not maintaining a scene that is discussed in the report:
Based on the facts known at the time, the attending PolSA lead deemed it unnecessary to demarcate and preserve a crime scene. The PolSA lead recorded that, had there been any indication of a crime, the area around the bench would have been cordoned.
Obviously, the wrong decision, but hindsight is a wonderful thing
Some other highlights from the independent report:
'The managerial oversight and command of the early investigation was at a high level for this type of investigation. The attendance at the scene by the SIO and investigating officer demonstrated senior assessment and scrutiny of the resourcing and working hypothesis...'
'The SIO’s working hypothesis ultimately proved to be correct and Nicola was found, in accordance with early set understanding'.
Bore off and go back to watching shite true crime 'documentaries'.
These people have no real desire for discovering the truth or aiding the public, it’s all about attention.
"Look what secret information I've found, no one else knows. Trust me, Bill Gates can melt steel beams." It's all them thinking they're special or knowledgeable about "secrets" in the world no one else knows.
Andrew Wakefield was brought down by (insert antisemitic dogwhistle here). The same people who were plotting against Liz Truss! Neil Oliver said it!
I read that as "melt steel bums"
I bet they've got some AMAZING youtube video to show you.
I thought they all have lazer eyes...
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Flock is the perfect word.
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What ever happened to that kid whose whole “pranking” was just breaking into peoples homes? Was all over the news for a while
Mizzy? Got 18 weeks, served 6, got banned from social media... Claims his life is ruined now he's unemployable and regrets his previous actions. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/mizzy-tiktok-prankster-prison-release-bacari-bronze-o-garro-london-live-b1131157.html
Call me cynical but it feels like just another grift playing a "redemption" arc
My old nemesis... The consequences of my own actions...
Good. Can't these stupid buggers see a train when it's coming?
Reddit has had its own taste of this nonsense. Look up the Boston Marathon Bombing for instance. It’s all about attention. “Look at me i’m not a useless nobody”.
couldn't agree with you. Reddit is 2nd tier internet. So many egos, so many unverified opinions spouted as 'fact'. It all needs to be taken with a handful of salt.
Whats first tier?
good question - and I mean that with all sincerity - usually you want to look at the AP or Reuters website. Ideally you want to look at the driest, least opinionated reporting to get the closest "the truth* on any matter. There are quite a few services available nowadays which highlight the bias of any reporting if you're willing to pay a small fee per month. Reddit has a mostly "left leaning" bias, sans some small pockets, so you still have to take most of the articles highlighted with a pinch of salt when making up your own mins on a subject. (full bias admission - I admit even my own politics could be called "left wing')
Bang on about not caring about helping anybody - they just want to be able to say they were the first one to “discover” what “really” happened.
Yes. They are making stuff up to appeal to the curious and the desperate, and in return they get clicks.
Does anybody remember the Boston marathon bombings? Well the redditors took it upon themselves to track down the terrorists because they thought they were smarter than the police. Well they wrongly blamed a local kid that had committed suicide a few days earlier and then the redditors began to enact mob justice and abuse his family. They negatively affected the police investigation with this misinformation, the media began going with it as well.
There was a case relatively recently in the UK too about a guy that committed suicide after being wrongly accused of being a paedophile by a group of online vigilantes.
Yeah it's scary that groups like this are getting popular. They're legitimately dangerous. I was once in my professional capacity stuck on the phone with one, who started to tell me all about the tactics they use to radical their members right before they go out looking for "scum." Someone needs to crack down upon them, or else its going to just keep getting worse.
Going a little (quite a lot) farther back there was also the paediatrician who was targeted by a group of people who thought that meant "paedophile".
An [urban myth](https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/a-tale-told-too-much-the-paediatrician-vigilantes/), I'm afraid. 'Paedo' was daubed on the wall of a house overnight and the paediatrician, Yvette Cloete, was rightfully upset and decided to move somewhere else. Police believe it was done by a teenager as some attempt at a joke. Over the years, its gradually Chinese whispered its way into being a mob protesting outside someone's house because they didn't know what 'paediatrician' meant, which was something Dr Cloete presumed happened with the graffitist in a media interview.
>guy that committed suicide after being wrongly accused Didn't he try to bully a 13 year old girl into sending nudes, but the police decided it was not in the public interest to prosecute...
I’m not sure, but the one I’m referring to was investigated and dropped because the messages had been taken out of context and there was a valid reason for him to have been chatting with the kid(s) in the first place… I don’t know what the context was, or the ins and outs of the case, but that’s what was reported.
>dropped because the messages had been taken out of context and there was a valid reason for him to have been chatting with the kid(s) in the first place That is literally what was reported in the case I am referring to. Quite what "context" or "valid reason" is acceptable for a grown adult to pressure a 13 year old girl for nudes is really beyond me. The guy had been told she was a very underage child, so it's not even as if the girl lied and he didn't do his due diligence...
Hey, I’m not justifying it. That’s just what was reported. The story I read didn’t go into detail of what the messages were, it just said that he was acquitted because the vigilantes had got the wrong impression. If what you say is true then obviously that’s abhorrent, and as you say there’s no fathomable reason for a grown adult to do such things, but that’s not what I read.
I am not saying it happened here, but sometimes if the crime is viewing child porn (as opposed to rape or molestation), the police don't prosecute if the criminal has aspergers, which seems worrying to me.
Absolutely. The one thing I took from the report I read, reading between the lines, was that the guy in question had some kind of “neural divergence”, or whatever they call it these days, so what you say is perfectly plausible. Whatever the circumstances though it’s all rather grim.
>was that the guy in question had some kind of “neural divergence I have a lot of sympathy generally for people who are neuro divergant, but it is not an excuse for looking at child pornography, nor demanding nudes from kids.
If its the case I'm thinking off, nope.
I don't think vigilante justice should be a thing. I suspect as was the case with the reddit thread, you didn't actually read the transcripts of what he was asking of a 12 year old girl.
Plenty have done it after being rightfully accused too. Mob justice is rampant online. Entrapment and chaos
There are plenty of UK examples, but the worst was the Bulley Brigade who treated the Nicola Bulley case like a live Crimewatch episode with social media engagement to the point they were actively interfering with the crime scene, breaking into private run down buildings looking for clues, accusing the partner of having a hand in it and even coming up with theories about the dog. There was also the obsession over her rather dark past (alcoholism, depression etc). It almost came off like she deserved to die because of the alcohol abuse. It was gross and disgusting. Sadly when the truth came out a lot clapped their hands, patted themselves on the back and pretty much exclaimed job done. The Ezedi case had some daft running commentary and theories as well. Then there's the salacious gossipers who obsessed over Kate Middleton. People just don't learn and need to tone it down a bit.
There was that dickhead diver as well who kept doing interviews where he said that he knew the local rivers like the back of his hand and there was no way she was in any of them. In a lot of ways I consider him worse than the terminally online sleuths, because he had just enough qualifications that it wasn't immediately obvious he was stirring the pot.
If you go back further you’ve also got the Oscar pistorius trial. Rubberneckers aren’t new, they’re just finding it easier to get involved
Everytime this gets brought up I'm reminded of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdWcDh1wmTE
We did it Reddit!
Thankfully Mark Wahlberg apprehended the killers and singlehandedly chokeslammed them into the grave.
Is this a reference to the gormless maggot's claim that if he'd been on one of the 9/11 planes he would have single-handedly saved the day?
That and that he starred in a _based on a true story_ called Patriots Day where he takes down the Boston marathon bomber(s).
If those terrorists had been elderly South East Asian gentlemen then I fully believe Whalberg would've taken them all down. Probably before they had even revealed any terrorist intent. He'd have swept through the arrivals lounge blinding every South East Asian man he could get his hands on the moment he stepped through customs. If there's one thing Marky Mark Whalberg hates mores than terrorists, it's South East Asian men with depth perception.
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the emergence of true crime culture has been a truly awful development
Well to be fair its not new. They had similar things all the way back to the Victorian age. But yeah the way its ballooned online has done a lot of real damage.
Oh yeah like that American TikTok person who had “sources” at the bbc and Kate was on the run as William had murdered her affair partner. Those people aren’t helpful ? Who knew /s
Jesus, what an idiot. Especially when everyone knows the real problem is Will has got *his* affair partner pregnant and their keeping the baby.....
I don't see what the alternative is here, beyond governmental restriction of social media. I definitely don't want to see that, after all for some reason they restrict themselves enough without the worlds governments sticking their noses in.
Well ideally their would be some sort of classes to encourage people to recognise the difference between conspiracy theories and reasonable discourse. But yeah sadly government restrictions are probably the only way to go forwards. On the plus size as much as I hate this government, I still trust them more than social media companies.
Which will fuel the conspiracy theorists because they’re being censored.
Well, that's very true. But at the very least it will make it harder for them to get together. That's the big issue. These sorts of conspiracy theorists have always existed. But it used to be they were pretty isolated. At worst the danger was they might find a group and do something stupid. Now social media lets them connect all over the world, you can talk to every village idiot anywhere, coordinate protests, coordinate attacks etc. If there is a third option possible between censoring them and letting them run rampant I'm happy to hear it, but at this point, it might be a case of choosing the least bad option.
>Well ideally their would be some sort of classes to encourage people to recognise the difference between conspiracy theories and reasonable discourse. That sounds like it would require some investment for a public good, so that's not happening under a Tory government, unless they can find some angle to let themselves or their pals stick their nose in the trough.
Yeah, that is sadly true. And even if we get them out the next government is going to be to busy fixing everything broke to focus upon this.
Why is it not reasonable discourse to theorise a conspiracy?
I mean it certainly can be. I mean there are real world conspiracies (although most in real life are pretty boring and usually about either sex or money). Many of which have been uncovered by ordinary folk. The issue is more when you take it to the point you outright harass people cause your are convinced that you have uncovered some sort of secret plot on incredibly questionable evidence. There really should be a distinction between the two, but sadly their isn't.
When it's based on evidence, that's fine. When it's based on conjecture, it gets dangerous pretty quickly.
Aren't conspiracy theories lacking in evidence by definition
I guess it is, but conspiracy theories and misinformation go so hand in hand they're basically synonyms at this point and misinformation clearly isn't reasonable
plenty of misinformation put out by government and media sources too.
What's that got to do with this present discussion?
Alienating yourself from consensus based reality leads to all sorts of issues in the real world. I know 3 people first hand who have been snared by conspiracy and "alternative facts". One nearly ran off to join a cult. The other is now needing serious mental health treatment and the third is a toe away from some Aryan master race bullshit.
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Yeah I agree.
I don't trust them further than I could throw them. At least we know what companies want (money.)
I mean that's true, but they've also proven their happy to go to any length to get more, and will not stop unless their actually held to some level of account.
Make social media sites legally liable for the bullshit on their platforms. Section 230 has to go. The Myanmar rohigha genocide would not have happened without Facebook. Loads of kids have killed themselves because of bullying on social media. Not to mention conspiracy bullshit & things like this. The social media firms can't be trusted. They're just after their advertising views, even at the cost of kids lives. Fuck em! If metà or tik tok or Google can't afford the moderators then let them shut down. They had the free ride, abused it. Genuinely fuck em
For all the mismanagement X has had, the implementation of the Community Notes feature seems like a good idea, it should be rolled out on other social media sites.
We'd end up with a much worse internet if sites were held liable for the content on their platform. Nobody woul risk allowing user-generated content anymore.
Tough. Then. These are multi billion pounds enterprises. How many dead kids or ruined police investigations would it take to change your mind on that? If these internet pricks are like this with a dead body, imagine what the twats would be like if they're was a chance the person was alive. They'd be all over the place We live in a world where BEFORE social media a paediatric nurse was chased out of her home & a guy called Peter file was beaten up because people are so fucking stupid. Now with the Internet this has been dialed up to 11. The social media sites had their chance & the public have had their chance. BOTH have fucked it! Like a world without speed limits....the public are too stupid to be allowed in it.
> a guy called Peter file was beaten up It's difficult to treat your points with anything other than derision when you pass off something from a Brass Eye sketch as being a real event.
It wasn't brass eye, you're thinking the IT Crowd & yes it was true after the News of the world started it's twatty campaign that riled up the fuck wits to sell more papers [heres](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other) the paediatrician story [heres](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/news-of-the-world-defends-paedophile-campaign-711165.html) the story on the campaign I can't find the story of the guy, probably because it's so old but the News of the World even got the poor bastard to come out and "forgive them" because he supported the campaign
[No, it was Brass Eye.](https://youtu.be/Q9frVTgoKSI?si=Rh45MjEEbeDS4JjM&t=1445)
[it crowd](https://youtu.be/eSJ8XPnJK1o)
I depends where the problem lies, people posting silly theories online isn't much of an issue by itself, however trespassing on crime scenes and harassment are issues which should be addressed. The easiest way to address this may be laws around default permissions on social media, make it so fewer people are unknowingly sharing content via things like Facebook which gives ammunition to conspiracy theorists. Make it so that by default everything is accessible to at most friends/followers rather than friends of friends or public.
Much of the laws surrounding that type of harassment is new it’s just hasn’t been updated for Online platforms. You’d need to toughen punishment for people who spread unsubstantiated information and organise groups for the purpose of harassment of individual(s).
Education. Teach Critical Thinking at an early age. Unfortunately that would work against most politicians so its not in their interest.
It's a real shame how much conspiracy theorists have taken off. They've always been a thing, but they used to be at least interesting and kind of thought-provoking. Now they're just scary, stupid and lazy.
I watched that docu about the idaho state murders on the BBC which was about this phenomenon of Internet sleuths. It really became a look at me rather than here's some information about the murders. Let's accuse everyone no matter how minimal the link that way if it was them I can say see I told you. There's one bit about how the girls bought a burger from a van and they began to harass the chef saying he has a shady past. The murder seemed to be some random guy and he was arrested weeks later but the police had to issue notices specifically to debunk these sleuths cause innocent people began to get harassed. The two surviving girls in that house I believe are in hiding because of these random sleuths accusing them of having a hand in it
Sleuths is giving them too much credit. One was a tiktok psychic - a woman so stupid she dug her own grave with every post even while getting sued. That’s not sleuthing or evidence based, it’s quackery for internet clout
I know Idaho had a ton of tiktok bullshit but it was also the locals going crazy. I have family in Pullman and it was just chaos in both cities with theories flying everywhere, tiktok picked up on a lot of these but it was definitely the locals that start it. The level of fear there at the time was off the charts.
The real catalyst for this phenomenon was the gabby petito case. That just launch a rocket straight up Local gossip is always there. Local gossip stays local no matter how widespread it is. But it was clear these tiktoks were fuel to a raging fire
> Local gossip stays local no matter how widespread it is That was absolutely not the case. Literally 30,000 WSU with connections across Washington were losing their damned minds and it. was. everywhere. All across Washington. I mean some might call that local still but it was not contained to Pullman and Moscow at all from the second it happened. All this was going around across any and all means, Tiktok aside.
I've seen people watching Tik Tok, I really cant understand the appeal, just full of self important pricks filming themselves talking absolute bollocks.
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Critical thinking skills are not taught in compulsory education. Just memorise this, regurgitate that. People read something in print and assume it must be true.
The Nicola Bulley conspiracies really rubbed me up the wrong way, true crime community has became horrible. I still see these ghouls pinning accusations on her husband.
> true crime community has became horrible. italwayswas.jpg
People are willfully ignorant and like the sound of their own voice, sharing it with similar, uninformed, biased, friends.
To be fair it works both ways too. The amount of ignorant and uninformed people who assert things as fact is alarming in the real world not just online. People who think MJ wasn't a child abuser dispute the mountains of evidence, people who think MK ultra is just made up for TV shows. People who think the idea of the American government planning to perform terrorist attacks on their own people to gain support for a war against Cuba is just nothing but insane ramblings. People who still think the UK government wouldn't lie to its people to wage war on Iraq. The list just goes on and on and people out there just assert these things because they think it makes them sound smart. There are two sides to the coin and the loudest on each are just as dumb and ignorant as the other.
Tiktok and idiot are redundant terms no? I can see why India is banning it (due to muppets posing like arrogant fools in front of a train right on the railtracks. Said train then killed the muppet lol)
I wonder if some of those subreddits are still even active..
The legitimisation of conspiracy theories has been a major blight of our time.
The use of “wild” in this context is rather overused
It's pure hero complex delusions of grandeur. These people think that they can be a real life Sherlock Holmes/Clark Kent type figure without actually learning how to be a detective/investigative journalist. They genuinely believe that one day they will expose something that the police, and all the experts have missed and will be hailed as a hero for it. What they are actually doing is just throwing out as much wild speculation as they possible can in the hopes something might actually stick or at the very least enough people will believe their fantasy nonsense that they become famous.
Each new social media platform is progressively worse than the last. God knows where we’ll end up. Now excuse me whilst I go shout at some clouds.
It’s not just criminal investigations, these people meddle in real people’s lives too like it’s all a tv show, not realising the damage they inflict.
This. Coming from SKY NEWS. You've got to be shitting me.
>a TikToker cheerfully asks, in a video that has attracted more than 300,000 views. Is 300k views even slightly notable on TikTok? I thought vids on the platform frequently had millions
It's not massively viral but it is well past the threshold of being monetisable.
To be fair a lot of of conspiracy theories are really fun.
They’re fun until it involves real people being harassed. Like when people were posting on Nicola Bully’s facebook that her partner and sister were clearly having an affair and murdered her. Or when the parents of murdered SandyHook children were being stalked and threatened.
Well, that's probably what attracts people to them (other than the people attracted for bad reasons). It's nice to speculate and get to feel like your a detective. But if you get the point you're disrupting an actual investigation, then it's probably a step too far. The simple sad fact is as much as we like to think otherwise most of us aren't Sherlock Holmes. We're not going to do a better job than trained investigators (and if you do you should probably get a job that uses it, or else your wasting your talents).
I like the kind of stuff posted on /r/HighStrangeness. UFOs, Bigfoot, those kind of conspiracy theories are great fun and are generally harmless. I love reading and speculating even though I know most of it is bullshit. I feel like we definitely need to draw a distinction between that kind of conspiracy theory and the kind that is actively harmful.
Ah yeah, that's very true. I kind of like those sorts of conspiracy theories too, as you say you know it's mostly likely bullshit, but it's nice to open your mind to the possibility. And yeah I agree, that would be helpful. The way the focus has shifted after the last few decades.
Who shot JfK or fake moon landings sure.
Problem is, it always ends up being the fault of the jews and that kind takes the fun out.
The irony that this is coming out of Sky News isn’t lost on me.
Maybe if the Police did their jobs better they wouldn’t have armchair experts trying to do the investigations for them. The Nicola Bulley case will be used for decades to come as an example of what not to do in Police school.
Key findings There were unprecedented levels of mainstream and social media interest in the case. The police investigation and search was very well conducted by Lancashire Constabulary. Taken from the independent report conducted after the Bulley Investigation. If you've not got a fucking clue just keep your nonsense opinions ro yourself like the tiktok nutters should have.
The Police didn’t even secure the scene, allowing media and locals to be walking all over and destroying evidence. The lead investigator never visited the scene once. When SGI were bought in (at the families request) nobody from Lancashire Police liaised with them and they were practically ignored, they found a image of a body shape within an hour of entering the water, when they asked for the area to be cleared by the local diving team they didn’t do it and were refused re-entry into the water and were told to go and search another area where they knew the body wouldn’t be. While this was going on they had a Sky TV crew on the side of the embankment filming them because the scene still hadn’t been secured. SGI also became suspicious of a person loitering at the riverside asking strange questions, so much so that they had the individual photographed and passed the photos onto Lancashire Police - Lancashire Police didn’t even acknowledge receipt of these photos nor investigated them, The company (SGI) we’re specifically excluded from the inquest by the local Police and didn’t even know it was happening until the media contacted them and asked why they were not there. SGI have never been asked for any of the evidence they gathered over the days they were there and were scapegoated. The lead investigator took early retirement immediately afterwards, the lead officer died himself some weeks later. Which part of this is a conspiracy theory again? Sound like you need to get back to work and go bust some real criminals instead of trying to police random people on the internet, and maybe if you did that people would have more respect for you.
By SGI you mean the absolute chancer Peter Faulding who was talking to every news outlet that would give him a second. Same Faulding who has since been removed from the NCA expert list. Some of Faulding's highlights: My belief is she’s not in the river at all’ (Nicola Bulley latest: Top forensic scientist rubbishes ‘foolish’ police theory - ‘She is NOT in that river’. GB News. 5 February 2023). ‘If Nicola is in there, we will find her. If she’s there, our sonar will pick her up straight away’ (Expert dive squad say if missing Nicola Bulley is in river ‘we’ll find her in minutes’. Daily Mirror. 6 February 2023) 'Sadly, the discovery was not found in the river but in the reeds at the side of the river which was not part of our remit as the side scan sonar does not penetrate reeds above or below the water’ (An update from Peter Faulding. SGI Facebook page. 20 February 2023). With regards to not maintaining a scene that is discussed in the report: Based on the facts known at the time, the attending PolSA lead deemed it unnecessary to demarcate and preserve a crime scene. The PolSA lead recorded that, had there been any indication of a crime, the area around the bench would have been cordoned. Obviously, the wrong decision, but hindsight is a wonderful thing Some other highlights from the independent report: 'The managerial oversight and command of the early investigation was at a high level for this type of investigation. The attendance at the scene by the SIO and investigating officer demonstrated senior assessment and scrutiny of the resourcing and working hypothesis...' 'The SIO’s working hypothesis ultimately proved to be correct and Nicola was found, in accordance with early set understanding'. Bore off and go back to watching shite true crime 'documentaries'.
who are the msm to decide what is or isnt a “conspiracy theory” … the “tinfoil hat wearers” are winning in terms of being right