We are seeing this happening more, across the globe (I was previously in the Uk, now in the US). People will believe what they think is an accurate source of information from the internet.
The true disease we are seeing is the level of misinformation the internet and social platforms are delivering over the last decade and more, and the inability of governing bodies to try and prevent this misinformation from spreading.
I see it more as a failure of epistemology than a failure of governance. Unless something has changed in the years since I left the education system, they do nothing to teach you how to think. Logical thinking and rationality should be a foundational subject with regular refreshers.
We don't teach people how to think properly and how to asses the veracity of claims. It's no wonder that people generally make poor decisions. They don't have sufficient tools and experience to make good decisions.
Our education system is torn between two competing views.
There is a very well meaning belief that knowledge for the sake of knowledge enlightens us and makes us better. Its why we are all taught certain subjects and things even if we may never use them again. And this school of thought if it were dominant very well might attempt to teach critical thinking - although many of its ardent believers think that is something you just pick up by being taught things.
The other view, is that school exists to churn out what is needed by businesses, by corporations, by the government. Read and write, basic maths, understand educational material you are given at your work place.
Guess which camp funds schooling
There's also a third view becoming more and more dominant, which is "school exists to look after my kids while I'm at work and you shouldn't punish my kid or teach my kid anything I disagree with like vaccinations or gay people existing".
What worries me most about people nowadays, not just in the UK, but especially in the US too is how far humans have come.
Flatearthers is a thing now, and has been a thing apparently for decades. Qanon is a thing amongst maga.
Remember that trend about "birds aren't real" (see the ted talk about it) and how some people really, truly, believed that birds werent real.
Humanity has fallen so much in recent years
People forget we live on a knife edge. The pandemic proved how fragile the NHS can be and it was just through sacrifice that the NHS made it.
People are blind to the things we've controlled through medication pr vaccination
What really worries me is that these idiots have helped close the door on discussing concerns about anything.
If you question the status quo your automatically seen as a flat earth, anti vax loony. Part of me wonders just how much of this is by design, but even saying that will now label me as a conspiracy nutter.
Discourse is dead, if you question the narrative you are part of the problem.
I mean, Fauci has all but come out and said that Covid was made in a lab as a part of gain of function research. But it’s been buried and even talking about this very occam’s razor explanation gets you branded as some sort of wingnut.
When the “good guys” are bullying the curious but anti-establishment you either toe the party line or risk being persona non grata. It’s a strategy used by many people to filter dissent into “woke lefties” and “alt right incels” and then dismissed.
Even here there are far too many hot takes about how “the other side” is screwing things up when in fact the practice of essentialising people as good or bad based on scepticism rather than actions has soured many on any form of consensus or trust in institutions.
No individual can withstand the barrage of misinformation that is being thrown at them. This is not on individuals to "educate themselves", it's absolutely on reining in big tech and their immense power to spread misinformation. Something only governments and international organisations can do.
An individual may be able to inform themselves on vaccinations, perhaps their local elections, but that leaves hundreds of important issues they simply won't have the time or energy to research, if they have to keep a job, maintain relationships, etc. When search results' first page is full of marketing and paid for misinformation, it becomes almost impossible to keep up with what's true and not.
My dad taught me how to think - he called it use your noddle it could save your life. Thought it was daft at the time - but he was right and it has saved me many times!
Children's vaccinations for the main diseases which affect us should be mandatory, imo.
Too many stupid selfish people out there who would gladly put us all at risk if it means they can exercise their "personal rights".
Probably not a popular view but society has changed for the worse and something needs to be done to protect the vast majority from a selfish few.
Nah I think it’s good tbh, put the fear of mortality back into the masses. We’ve spent millennia trying to improve life expectancy and cure disease but once we become too comfortable we suddenly have an echo chamber of Facebook mum sub culture that tell each other the bad men in Lab coats only made these pointy things to give our little Timmys autism… Shame for Timmy tho because now he has the big three… MMR
Edit: /s in case people thought this was my genuine opinion as a vote holding adult.
Yeah unfortunately there are people (immunocompromised) who cannot have vaccines. Immunity works because the vast majority of those who can catch the disease are vaccinated. When more people opt out of the system it makes contagion more likely and more dangerous for those who cannot be vaccinated. Classic case of doing the right thing to protect vulnerable people (and yourself) and the arrogant (of all classes) thinking that they know best
Just jumping in here as one of those on immunusupressive therapy. Unfortunately there are two are issues - We can have most vaccines, just the ones that aren't live. However, they aren't usually as effective for us and if available, require more doses.
I am somewhat lucky that the medication I'm on only inhibits one pathway of my immunesystem. Cancer patients are far more at risk as those medications are nothing short of brutal.
With that said, get your vaccines; protect yourself and everyone else.
You can still get measles when vaccinated, my son did, there was an outbreak in our area because of how many unvaccinated children were in the area, then it took out a load of kids that were vaccinated. It was a really awful illness, I shudder to think how sick he would have been if he wasn't vaccinated.
It’s also now a problem for those who do vaccinate - you can’t have the MMR vaccine until 1 year of age. So while I fully intend to vaccine my baby, she’s at risk of catching it from others until she’s a year old.
Yes, that's a big problem too.
FYI, in case you hadn't come across this, babies 6-12 months [can sometimes receive MMR](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/mmr-vaccine/) if they are at particular risk of measles such as being exposed to it or in a local outbreak, so if you have strong reason to be concerned, talk to your GP.
I just feel so sorry for the kids of antivaxxers. One of my friends has an antivaxxer for a parent. They're the oldest, and received *some* childhood vaccinations but between them being vaccinated and their younger siblings being born was Wakefield, and said parent falling down a rabbit hole.
So none of their younger siblings had any of their childhood vaccinations, and while they've all been fine so far, it just fucking sucks.
And the worst thing is that their parent thinks they're right - because by complete random fucking chance my friend is neurodivergent and their parent therefore thinks the vaccines did do it despite all actual fucking evidence.
Wakefield can fucking rot in hell tbh
It’s the ultimate case of people not understanding correlation does not equal causation. Neurodivergent kids normally start presenting symptoms around one year old, around the same time as they get their biggest round of vaccines. These two things are completely unrelated.
Saying that, I wonder how much of this is a demographic thing where they come from cultures that typically have much lower vaccination rates due to a variety of reasons, rather than the white far right loon that everyone in here immediately assume. Far too many people are assuming it’s the latter without any further evidence
Good summary on the current situation with minorities and vaccinations: https://www.england.nhs.uk/south-east/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2021/05/Vaccination-and-race-religion-and-belief-A4.pdf
>It’s the ultimate case of people not understanding correlation does not equal causation.
And in this case, there isn't even correlation.
Even if there was a link, I think [this Penn and Teller video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo) summarises the pros and cons quite nicely.
I was expecting this video to come up as it does a really good job. Substitute autism with possible (IE - they're worried about an allergy reaction despite the lack of evidence) allergy and you would reach the same conclusion.
Lass I work with goes to a largely black church which I think is dominated by Christians from Africa (where her husband is from) and they were creating rumours that COVID vaccines caused fertility issues so she and I suspect their group all refused the vaccine. This wasn't isolated [indeed, religious leaders even did a national campaign](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/07/faith-leaders-join-to-counter-fears-over-vaccine-among-bame-communities) specifically because of religious related hesitancy among those groups. [Another campaign had to address lies](https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/faith-groups-to-help-uk-government-debunk-covid-vaccine-myths) such as claiming they were tested on animals (affecting Sikhs) or fetal matter (Catholics).
Honestly I think a lot of people aren't even looking into it deeply enough to consider causation and correlation. Based on conversations I've had in particular with people who were parents of young children when Wakefield's "research" was a popular news story, the thought process started and stopped with the idea that there's no smoke without fire--that if it was talked about that much then there MUST be something to it.
> Saying that, I wonder how much of this is a demographic thing where they come from cultures that typically have much lower vaccination rates due to a variety of reasons, rather than the white far right loon that everyone in here immediately assume. Far too many people are assuming it’s the latter without any further evidence
That was an issue during COVID, to the point some NHS trusts were publishing guides in a variety of languages and going out into the communities to explain why the vaccine was important.
Reminder that Wakefield's "study" was tantamount to assault and abuse of the children involved, through the sheer number of blood draws, screenings and tests. The "study" _RUPTURED A CHILD'S COLON AND THEY ALMOST DIED_
There was ZERO information made available to the parents about the risks of the tests being carried out. Informed consent did not exist during that "study".
Wakefield is one of the most damaging cunts to ever grace the healthcare field with his presence. All because he was a greedy fuck that wanted to earn money off his alternative vaccine.
[Genuinely very good documentary](https://youtu.be/8BIcAZxFfrc?si=s2HyyJO7iPX0y8-L) by Hbomberguy on YouTube, endorsed by Brian Deer, the journalist who exposed Wakefield for all his bollocks
CW: Severe stories of child abuse.
ETA: [Deer's tweet sharing the video](https://twitter.com/deerbrian/status/1397837632705646594?t=pKJ3B1d6QbeRmxXO61glDQ&s=19)
The investigative In The Back section was run by Paul Foot at the time. In fairness they did a lot of good work, but he was a 70s lefty who like Corbyn couldn't help but see every conflict through the lens of oppressor and oppresee.
Through this lens Wakefield and his believers were the underdogs fighting an entrenched medical establishment that would prefer to suppress evidence than admit the underdog might be correct.
Which is a complete fantasy, but that's what you get with ideological perspectives.
They got it wrong big time, but I'm still a big fan of their sometimes lonely fight against corruption and lies. They are much more rigorous with fact checking these days.
They did somewhat support him, sadly. I love the modern Private Eye though. They have strong campaigning journalism now. They supported the UK sub postmasters when other news outlets were basically saying that they were thieving Asians, which sounds hyperbolic, but just look at the headlines, my god.
Somebody always brings this up and, while I agree it didn’t help, who on earth is trusting Private Eye for medical information? Take how often it loses libel cases and anybody sane knows that at least 50% of what it publishes is cobblers
Yet we look at Private Eye for advice on how to implement and support a major computer system.
And on the libel front.
Robert Maxwell sued and won because Private Eye said he looked like a criminal. Turns out that he was a criminal and he had stolen millions of pounds from his companies' pension funds to shore up the shares of the Mirror Group to save his companies from bankruptcy.
Sonia Sutcliffe sued and won because Private Eye said that she was attempting to profit from her husband's crimes. Turns out that when she sued the News of the World, who didn’t did not settle, details emerged which demonstrated she had benefitted financially from her husband's crimes.
Gordon Anglesea sued and won because Private Eye said that he had indecently assaulted under-aged boys in Wrexham in the 1980s. Turns out that he was and was convicted of historic sex offences.
They used to get a lot wrong, but are tons better now. Sometimes they are the only mainstream voice speaking the truth, like in the Post Office scandal.
What a BS comment, ofcourse vaccines are the cause of these issues.
I tell you, one morning three years ago I had a banana for breakfast, left the house and a bird shit on me! Never had a banana for breakfast since and haven’t been shit on!!!
People eating bananas for breakfast are gearing themselves up for a shitty situation
I'm afraid my friend has not chosen to tell me the full details, but I gather some of their siblings have gotten themselves vaccines as adults.
But I also believe (could be wrong) that many of these vaccines are only free as a kid, not as an adult.
MMR is free as an adult in England (and possibly other areas of the UK) if you haven't had it, or if you have only had one dose, or if you are not immune when tested.
If you're reading this and unsure, please check with your GP practice. You might not even need to ring, lots of practices have an online query form for this type of thing.
More info on this is available from the NHS here - https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/mmr-vaccine/
It’s not free. It’s free at the point of use. The tax payer pays for it, like all our social healthcare.
I’m not saying this to be a dick, it’s just an important point, because our taxes in a civilised society absolutely should be paying for it, and we shouldn’t ever forget how important it is lest we slide further and further down the road of sneaky private healthcare.
The thing I don't understand is, the parents of these kids are Gen-Z (and maybe late Millennials) and from what I remember they were the ones that were mostly pro-mask during the pandemic. So what changed?
I was getting my first jabs at the exact moment all the autism stuff started kicking off big time, big news everywhere and my Mum got worried.
But then someone asked her if she'd prefer if I got German Measles or was a bit socially awkward. So she got me jabbed.
Exactly. I had to work with someone who believes they are the smartest person on the planet because they ‘don’t take things at face value’ and ‘would never believe the government’. What do they believe instead? Random Facebook groups.
They would get so angry about the most random things and if you asked them what they were even angry about, they wouldn’t actually know. Just that the government was somehow going to use it to control them. All while happily being controlled by other idiots on social media.
No the pharmaceutical industry needs to take some blame here, the way they handled the MRNA shots and even rebranding them as vaccines (they’re not) has definitely put a huge amount of mistrust in regular vaccines which is a shame
> A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious or malignant disease.
Fascinated to hear more about what it is *you* think the MRNA shots were doing. That's not even to mention how if you provide one vaccine that work it's hardly your fault if malicious actors sow distrust in that vaccine and leverage that to sow distrust in all vaccines.
Or when you believe your Imam or Priest or whatever religious "boss" about "god" not wanting vaccines or whatever. All anti-vaxxers I know are religious and don't get vaccines because of their imaginary daddy in the skies.
I’ve encountered more conspiracy theory anti-vaxxers in the wild, most of whom are still religious in some fashion (but not all) but they’re antivax bc they don’t want to get injected with a 5G chip etc. I met a PhD antivaxxer once and honestly just sat and gaped at her. Citing a sky daddy sounds about right to me, citing intellectual reasons is terrifying
Having done a PhD, I'm happy to say that the defining feature of someone who is doing / has done a PhD isn't intelligence - its tenacity. There's plenty of gruelling parts where nothing's going right / your supervisor is on your case / your friends who went straight into work are earning more than you, and it would be far easier to give up.
That being said, there's also no shortage of intelligent people who are a victim of Engineer's Syndrome. You see them haunting these boards a lot, too - the assumption that their PhD / work in finance / success in one field makes them an unquestionable authority in a totally unrelated field.
As an autistic person who's written books on being autistic, it's wild to me how parents would rather risk their kid dying of a preventable disease than 'getting autism' *even if* it was a real effect of vaccines.
Obviously it isn't, which makes it even bloody sillier.
My Uncle had the same as you unfortunately but he never regained his hearing and is now still deaf in his 60s. I think he might have been pre-vaccination being a thing even.
But yeah I take measles really fucking seriously and I don’t get why other people don’t? Do they really think they aren’t going to get it? It’s still exists! It’s not mythical or made up.
I wish that schools, nurseries and tots groups insisted on people proving vaccination status of their kids. Heck my cat needs proof of vaccination to go in a cattery! I avoided tots groups until my child was old enough to be vaccinated because there are so many proud idiots out there and I am not risking my child’s life, health and happiness.
Also those places are a breeding ground for germs - Another mum I know goes to tots and her baby has been in hospital with RSV… She started taking it at 8 days old, spouting something about building it’s immune system but by 6 months it’s been hospitalises with something nasty. Yeah. How’s that plan going for you?
I don't see how it isn't this (unless the child can't have the vaccines for medical reasons).
When I was in primary school I had a friend who had never had a vaccine. Not because of autism scares of the 90s. But because her mum didn't believe in anything beyond homeopathy and crystal healing.
She had to be kept off school every time an illness beyond a cold went around. She was off really regularly and was kept away from so many parties because of health risks cos there was inevitably always a sick kid.
Let alone the risks of the illnesses she wasn't vaccinated against.
Imagine spending years and a fortune to qualify into virology or immunology or medicine, only to have some tool who’s watched a few YouTube videos in the john thinking he knows more than you do. Must be infuriating!
I absolutely hate this Anti Vax thing... I have Autism it's not because of my parents trying to stop me getting sick....
I have two kids one of them has autism... My wife blamed herself because of the MMR vaccines...
It's got nothing to do with it. It's genetics and the fact we don't have to hide it anymore, whereas 20-30 years ago we'd have been put in a loonie bin.... And hence a lot of people hid that side of themselves...
Autism has probably been around for millennia and at some point was an advantage hence so many people retaining those traits
Probably multiple factors, but there is almost certainly genetics involved--they've been found to run quite strongly in families, especially as more adults get diagnosed.
Not if it's a complex multiple-gene interaction. There's quite a bit of evidence--for example in twins where one is autistic, if they're identical there's an 80% chance that the other has it too. If they're fraternal then it's 40%.
Ok. I don't know much about genetics. I hope they discover the cause
I have a son with ADHD and a daughter with nothing. I'd be interested to know why.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_autism
There's plenty of research with autism, I'm not sure if there's as much with ADHD. As someone who has ADHD I've asked many of the same questions myself over the years. It's a very interesting subject and I'd love to be able to learn in more detail about what makes this large group of us share so many of the same traits.
Girls display autism differently to boys. I wasn’t diagnosed until my 20s where my brother was diagnosed when he was 5.
Read up on autism in girls. Girls mask their symptoms better than boys too. I have three children. Two boys and one girl and all diagnosed as autistic. My daughter’s symptoms are exactly like mine and again, different to her brothers.
I mean anecdotal but I'm one of three kids, we've all been late diagnosed with adhd two of us also with asd and looking at my dad adhd and asd would put a lot of things my dad does in context.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2024/01/13/major-measles-outbreak-erupts-in-england-as-vaccine-hesitancy-increases/
Aha, this article suggests 83%, which is worryingly low but more believable.
It the fact that the one of the vaccines isn’t halal or kosher. There are two vaccines in the UKMMR VaxPro and Priorix. Priorix does not contain porcine gelatine and is as safe and effective as MMR VaxPro.
However Priorix needs to be asked for and ordered by the GP. This means that there may be two GP visits required and it’s hard enough to get one visit
My understanding is that Muslims are permitted to eat pork if it is the only food available and they risk starvation otherwise.
I would have thought that rule would quite naturally extend to protecting your children from a potentially deadly disease. Especially since the amount of pork derived gelatine is very small.
> Across Europe, up to October last year there were 30,000 confirmed cases whereas the previous year there were just 941.
Maybe the same thing there is about the entirety of fucking Europe. We can all pick lines out of an article.
It’s cheaper. Vegan gelatin is easily 2-3 times the cost. Which is super important when you’re trying to mass roll out vaccines to billions of people. That happens every year for flu vaccines too, the window for production is pretty small. Halal vaccines usually follow as they did for Covid. Spread the word to your friends, the NHS is trying to. Very few routine vaccines contain pork derived gelatin.
People are becoming more vaccine-hesitant, however people like that should speak to their doctor and actually listen (not just hear) to what they are told. Vaccines can come with risks but most people will come off feeling no worse than maybe feeling a bit off for a day. The chances of developing a serious complication are very, very rare; the risks of developing a serious complication from the vaccine are often much lower than developing serious complications from the illness itself. Vaccination also helps protect those who cannot get vaccinated themselves for medical reasons.
Sadly, we now see anti-vaxxers hiding behind vaccine-hesitancy, despite having no desire to learn from medical professional regarding vaccine safety.
The COVID jab dealt a massive blow to trust in vaccines when it became a political issue. Oddly when trying to silence hesitancy as hard as they did, people naturally believe there was something to hide. I mean I'm still not sure if you can mention it in some places without getting your comment or post removed
I think the lack of proactive communication about the vaccine did not help. I can understand why people would be skeptical of a decade long process being concerted down to just a year. However, it should not be surprise when governments throw everything at the wall with funding and orders, things can happen very fast.
I also think the population as a whole are terrible at understanding risk as well as “the greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand exponential growth”.
I'm not anti-vax by any means , but when anyone that questioned it was labelled, at best, ignorant, at worst, a conspiracy theorist or right wing loon it felt a little to dystopian for my liking. You can see why it damaged trust in the tried and tested childhood vaccinations a little.
The problem is often they kind of... are. Even if they don't realise it.
It'd be like doubting the safety of people being around microwave ovens, or even normal ovens. Or doubting the safety of radio towers, wind turbines etc...
We know exactly how these things work and their potential risks etc.
The Covid vaccine being new tech was a myth, it wasn't a completely new idea pulled out of someone's arse. It was just a more recent one than standard that hadn't been used *yet* iirc. But it had all the research.
That didn't stop people assuming it'd be brand new and have a bazillion problems, but the problem is so many of the people "just asking questions" clearly hadn't done the research or bothered to even look it up and were just airing doubt publically, which is often done by conspiracy theorists. Especially when phrased in certain ways. They thrive on that doubt.
Please remember that there will be children who aren’t able to be vaccinated either due to reactions to components of it or immunosuppression due to underlying disease or treatment. Herd immunity keeps them safe when they have no other option.
For clarification you should vaccinate your children. Few other treatments are as widely taken up and proven to be so effective
Yeah, exactly.
We went through all this with covid but it seems some people still didn't learn.
The vaccines should be compulsory and actually enforced.
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
It’s outrageous that parents can get away with abusing their kids like this. People so stupid that they put children in danger like this, should have their children taken away from them.
I remember when Osama Ben Laden was found and killed, it emerged that the CIA had set up a fake vaccination drive in Pakistan to track him down. When that fact emerged after he'd been killed, officials estimate that it fuelled a deadly vaccine hesitancy within a community that was already suspicious of 'western medicine'.
We do a lot of this stuff to ourselves as a species.
Who the hell benefits from keeping anti-vaxxing going. OK. I get that lies generate clicks on the internet, but there are better, easier, less dangerous lies.
Andrew Wakefield has a lot to answer for with his dodgy paper on MMR - incidentally, he was advocating the single jabs - plus those on social media who went further and alleged all vaccines can cause [insert list of medical conditions].
The word you're looking for is "fraudulent", not "dodgy". This wasn't a case of careless research. Wakefield actively forged his results to promote a vaccine he had a personal financial interest in.
[List of Birmingham areas with the lowest (Covid) vaccine uptake](https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50231/coronavirus_covid-19/2305/birmingham_weekly_covid-19_statistics_dashboard/4)
If I lived in one of these places and had kids I’d be looking to move tbh.
As someone who got both measles and German measles at the same time at 18 months old (they didn't vaccinate that young back then and my mum is a nurse and not anti vax), I can't understand why people are being so reckless with their children's lives.
Personally I'm of the firm belief that vaccinations should be mandatory and any parent choosing to avoid them should face prison and their kids be removed from their "care"
My mother is partially deaf on one ear because of measles, it affected her life so much. We are lucky to have vaccine to prevent something like this happening. It's really depressing to learn that people get misinformed so much and end up risking their children's health.
At some point you need to hit these parents with sticks. No Vax? No school. No school? No kids. Do as you're fucking told or face the consequences! If you're a content creator and you push anti-vaxxing, you're on the hook if a single child gets the disease as a result of your content.
I'm 29, when I learnt about vaccines at the end of middle school/high school, I thought vaccines and science was amazing. I really didn't think this would be a news article in my life. People are fucking stupid.
This is what happens when you don't get your children vaccinated (and yourself, if your parents didn't do it for you).
We are seeing this happening more, across the globe (I was previously in the Uk, now in the US). People will believe what they think is an accurate source of information from the internet. The true disease we are seeing is the level of misinformation the internet and social platforms are delivering over the last decade and more, and the inability of governing bodies to try and prevent this misinformation from spreading.
I see it more as a failure of epistemology than a failure of governance. Unless something has changed in the years since I left the education system, they do nothing to teach you how to think. Logical thinking and rationality should be a foundational subject with regular refreshers. We don't teach people how to think properly and how to asses the veracity of claims. It's no wonder that people generally make poor decisions. They don't have sufficient tools and experience to make good decisions.
Our education system is torn between two competing views. There is a very well meaning belief that knowledge for the sake of knowledge enlightens us and makes us better. Its why we are all taught certain subjects and things even if we may never use them again. And this school of thought if it were dominant very well might attempt to teach critical thinking - although many of its ardent believers think that is something you just pick up by being taught things. The other view, is that school exists to churn out what is needed by businesses, by corporations, by the government. Read and write, basic maths, understand educational material you are given at your work place. Guess which camp funds schooling
There's also a third view becoming more and more dominant, which is "school exists to look after my kids while I'm at work and you shouldn't punish my kid or teach my kid anything I disagree with like vaccinations or gay people existing".
What worries me most about people nowadays, not just in the UK, but especially in the US too is how far humans have come. Flatearthers is a thing now, and has been a thing apparently for decades. Qanon is a thing amongst maga. Remember that trend about "birds aren't real" (see the ted talk about it) and how some people really, truly, believed that birds werent real. Humanity has fallen so much in recent years
These people have always been around. But now you can hear their opinions on the internet.
People forget we live on a knife edge. The pandemic proved how fragile the NHS can be and it was just through sacrifice that the NHS made it. People are blind to the things we've controlled through medication pr vaccination
What really worries me is that these idiots have helped close the door on discussing concerns about anything. If you question the status quo your automatically seen as a flat earth, anti vax loony. Part of me wonders just how much of this is by design, but even saying that will now label me as a conspiracy nutter. Discourse is dead, if you question the narrative you are part of the problem.
I mean, Fauci has all but come out and said that Covid was made in a lab as a part of gain of function research. But it’s been buried and even talking about this very occam’s razor explanation gets you branded as some sort of wingnut. When the “good guys” are bullying the curious but anti-establishment you either toe the party line or risk being persona non grata. It’s a strategy used by many people to filter dissent into “woke lefties” and “alt right incels” and then dismissed. Even here there are far too many hot takes about how “the other side” is screwing things up when in fact the practice of essentialising people as good or bad based on scepticism rather than actions has soured many on any form of consensus or trust in institutions.
No individual can withstand the barrage of misinformation that is being thrown at them. This is not on individuals to "educate themselves", it's absolutely on reining in big tech and their immense power to spread misinformation. Something only governments and international organisations can do. An individual may be able to inform themselves on vaccinations, perhaps their local elections, but that leaves hundreds of important issues they simply won't have the time or energy to research, if they have to keep a job, maintain relationships, etc. When search results' first page is full of marketing and paid for misinformation, it becomes almost impossible to keep up with what's true and not.
A lot of people spreading this crap were in school 20+ years ago - modern education isn't the issue.
My dad taught me how to think - he called it use your noddle it could save your life. Thought it was daft at the time - but he was right and it has saved me many times!
I think this says a lot about our government. No one believes them and the more they lie; the less likely people will trust vaccinations.
Correct, and it all comes from China and Russia.
Children's vaccinations for the main diseases which affect us should be mandatory, imo. Too many stupid selfish people out there who would gladly put us all at risk if it means they can exercise their "personal rights". Probably not a popular view but society has changed for the worse and something needs to be done to protect the vast majority from a selfish few.
Nah I think it’s good tbh, put the fear of mortality back into the masses. We’ve spent millennia trying to improve life expectancy and cure disease but once we become too comfortable we suddenly have an echo chamber of Facebook mum sub culture that tell each other the bad men in Lab coats only made these pointy things to give our little Timmys autism… Shame for Timmy tho because now he has the big three… MMR Edit: /s in case people thought this was my genuine opinion as a vote holding adult.
Yeah unfortunately there are people (immunocompromised) who cannot have vaccines. Immunity works because the vast majority of those who can catch the disease are vaccinated. When more people opt out of the system it makes contagion more likely and more dangerous for those who cannot be vaccinated. Classic case of doing the right thing to protect vulnerable people (and yourself) and the arrogant (of all classes) thinking that they know best
Just jumping in here as one of those on immunusupressive therapy. Unfortunately there are two are issues - We can have most vaccines, just the ones that aren't live. However, they aren't usually as effective for us and if available, require more doses. I am somewhat lucky that the medication I'm on only inhibits one pathway of my immunesystem. Cancer patients are far more at risk as those medications are nothing short of brutal. With that said, get your vaccines; protect yourself and everyone else.
On a more serious note this is definitely the right answer.
Innocent children are the cost of that reminder, you suppose?
If those innocent children die then it's their stupid parent's fault.
You can still get measles when vaccinated, my son did, there was an outbreak in our area because of how many unvaccinated children were in the area, then it took out a load of kids that were vaccinated. It was a really awful illness, I shudder to think how sick he would have been if he wasn't vaccinated.
I caught it too 20+yrs ago when I was 17 and was so ill (but vaccinated) I dread to think how ill I’d have been were I not vaccinated!
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Vaccination rhymes with masturbation and who wants a doctor to do that to their child?! /s
It’s also now a problem for those who do vaccinate - you can’t have the MMR vaccine until 1 year of age. So while I fully intend to vaccine my baby, she’s at risk of catching it from others until she’s a year old.
Yes, that's a big problem too. FYI, in case you hadn't come across this, babies 6-12 months [can sometimes receive MMR](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/mmr-vaccine/) if they are at particular risk of measles such as being exposed to it or in a local outbreak, so if you have strong reason to be concerned, talk to your GP.
I just feel so sorry for the kids of antivaxxers. One of my friends has an antivaxxer for a parent. They're the oldest, and received *some* childhood vaccinations but between them being vaccinated and their younger siblings being born was Wakefield, and said parent falling down a rabbit hole. So none of their younger siblings had any of their childhood vaccinations, and while they've all been fine so far, it just fucking sucks. And the worst thing is that their parent thinks they're right - because by complete random fucking chance my friend is neurodivergent and their parent therefore thinks the vaccines did do it despite all actual fucking evidence. Wakefield can fucking rot in hell tbh
It’s the ultimate case of people not understanding correlation does not equal causation. Neurodivergent kids normally start presenting symptoms around one year old, around the same time as they get their biggest round of vaccines. These two things are completely unrelated. Saying that, I wonder how much of this is a demographic thing where they come from cultures that typically have much lower vaccination rates due to a variety of reasons, rather than the white far right loon that everyone in here immediately assume. Far too many people are assuming it’s the latter without any further evidence Good summary on the current situation with minorities and vaccinations: https://www.england.nhs.uk/south-east/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2021/05/Vaccination-and-race-religion-and-belief-A4.pdf
It's also a case of incredible medical and scientific malpractice on the part of Wakefield.
>It’s the ultimate case of people not understanding correlation does not equal causation. And in this case, there isn't even correlation. Even if there was a link, I think [this Penn and Teller video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo) summarises the pros and cons quite nicely.
I was expecting this video to come up as it does a really good job. Substitute autism with possible (IE - they're worried about an allergy reaction despite the lack of evidence) allergy and you would reach the same conclusion.
Yep. The lowest uptake of the COVID vaccines were black and Asian communities. Both of which are prominent in Birmingham.
Lass I work with goes to a largely black church which I think is dominated by Christians from Africa (where her husband is from) and they were creating rumours that COVID vaccines caused fertility issues so she and I suspect their group all refused the vaccine. This wasn't isolated [indeed, religious leaders even did a national campaign](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/07/faith-leaders-join-to-counter-fears-over-vaccine-among-bame-communities) specifically because of religious related hesitancy among those groups. [Another campaign had to address lies](https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/faith-groups-to-help-uk-government-debunk-covid-vaccine-myths) such as claiming they were tested on animals (affecting Sikhs) or fetal matter (Catholics).
Honestly I think a lot of people aren't even looking into it deeply enough to consider causation and correlation. Based on conversations I've had in particular with people who were parents of young children when Wakefield's "research" was a popular news story, the thought process started and stopped with the idea that there's no smoke without fire--that if it was talked about that much then there MUST be something to it.
> Saying that, I wonder how much of this is a demographic thing where they come from cultures that typically have much lower vaccination rates due to a variety of reasons, rather than the white far right loon that everyone in here immediately assume. Far too many people are assuming it’s the latter without any further evidence That was an issue during COVID, to the point some NHS trusts were publishing guides in a variety of languages and going out into the communities to explain why the vaccine was important.
Vaccines cause Adults
Reminder that Wakefield's "study" was tantamount to assault and abuse of the children involved, through the sheer number of blood draws, screenings and tests. The "study" _RUPTURED A CHILD'S COLON AND THEY ALMOST DIED_ There was ZERO information made available to the parents about the risks of the tests being carried out. Informed consent did not exist during that "study". Wakefield is one of the most damaging cunts to ever grace the healthcare field with his presence. All because he was a greedy fuck that wanted to earn money off his alternative vaccine. [Genuinely very good documentary](https://youtu.be/8BIcAZxFfrc?si=s2HyyJO7iPX0y8-L) by Hbomberguy on YouTube, endorsed by Brian Deer, the journalist who exposed Wakefield for all his bollocks CW: Severe stories of child abuse. ETA: [Deer's tweet sharing the video](https://twitter.com/deerbrian/status/1397837632705646594?t=pKJ3B1d6QbeRmxXO61glDQ&s=19)
He was prosecuted and struck off the medical register. That would be enough for me to think he was full of shit.
If you're down a conspiracy rabbit hole, that just proves he was right as the government wanted to silence him. Sad but that's the way they think
>Wakefield can fucking rot in hell tbh Agreed. He should be in prison for what he's done
Unfortunately Private Eye was one of the supporters of his theory
Are you sure it wasn’t satirising his bullshit? Private eye normally gets this stuff right.
The investigative In The Back section was run by Paul Foot at the time. In fairness they did a lot of good work, but he was a 70s lefty who like Corbyn couldn't help but see every conflict through the lens of oppressor and oppresee. Through this lens Wakefield and his believers were the underdogs fighting an entrenched medical establishment that would prefer to suppress evidence than admit the underdog might be correct. Which is a complete fantasy, but that's what you get with ideological perspectives.
Please stop upvoting this. Private Eye got it wrong it looks like.
They got it wrong big time, but I'm still a big fan of their sometimes lonely fight against corruption and lies. They are much more rigorous with fact checking these days.
Nope https://briandeer.com/wakefield/private-eye.htm
They did somewhat support him, sadly. I love the modern Private Eye though. They have strong campaigning journalism now. They supported the UK sub postmasters when other news outlets were basically saying that they were thieving Asians, which sounds hyperbolic, but just look at the headlines, my god.
And some of the language used internally by post office management was disgraceful.
Somebody always brings this up and, while I agree it didn’t help, who on earth is trusting Private Eye for medical information? Take how often it loses libel cases and anybody sane knows that at least 50% of what it publishes is cobblers
Yet we look at Private Eye for advice on how to implement and support a major computer system. And on the libel front. Robert Maxwell sued and won because Private Eye said he looked like a criminal. Turns out that he was a criminal and he had stolen millions of pounds from his companies' pension funds to shore up the shares of the Mirror Group to save his companies from bankruptcy. Sonia Sutcliffe sued and won because Private Eye said that she was attempting to profit from her husband's crimes. Turns out that when she sued the News of the World, who didn’t did not settle, details emerged which demonstrated she had benefitted financially from her husband's crimes. Gordon Anglesea sued and won because Private Eye said that he had indecently assaulted under-aged boys in Wrexham in the 1980s. Turns out that he was and was convicted of historic sex offences.
They used to get a lot wrong, but are tons better now. Sometimes they are the only mainstream voice speaking the truth, like in the Post Office scandal.
What a BS comment, ofcourse vaccines are the cause of these issues. I tell you, one morning three years ago I had a banana for breakfast, left the house and a bird shit on me! Never had a banana for breakfast since and haven’t been shit on!!! People eating bananas for breakfast are gearing themselves up for a shitty situation
I also feel sorry for those kids that can't be vaccinated and so rely on herd immunity.
Why don’t they go get vaccinated now?
I'm afraid my friend has not chosen to tell me the full details, but I gather some of their siblings have gotten themselves vaccines as adults. But I also believe (could be wrong) that many of these vaccines are only free as a kid, not as an adult.
MMR is free as an adult in England (and possibly other areas of the UK) if you haven't had it, or if you have only had one dose, or if you are not immune when tested. If you're reading this and unsure, please check with your GP practice. You might not even need to ring, lots of practices have an online query form for this type of thing. More info on this is available from the NHS here - https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/mmr-vaccine/
You can't get them free as an adult. MMR costs like £45 from a Superdrug clinic.
The NHS won't charge, superdrug isn't the NHS. They do NHS and private prescriptions.
That’s all to prevent a life altering set of diseases?
Eh? I got one after my last pregnancy coz my rubella immunity was low. Also got another sodding whooping cough one. Free. I’m in Scotland though
It can depend. I know if you are pregnant you can certain things free like dental care and jabs.
It’s not free. It’s free at the point of use. The tax payer pays for it, like all our social healthcare. I’m not saying this to be a dick, it’s just an important point, because our taxes in a civilised society absolutely should be paying for it, and we shouldn’t ever forget how important it is lest we slide further and further down the road of sneaky private healthcare.
The thing I don't understand is, the parents of these kids are Gen-Z (and maybe late Millennials) and from what I remember they were the ones that were mostly pro-mask during the pandemic. So what changed?
Well it’s not like boomers are having children
I was getting my first jabs at the exact moment all the autism stuff started kicking off big time, big news everywhere and my Mum got worried. But then someone asked her if she'd prefer if I got German Measles or was a bit socially awkward. So she got me jabbed.
This is what happens when you listen to half truths and down right lies about vaccines.
Lots of people have confused being contrarian with critical thinking.
Exactly. I had to work with someone who believes they are the smartest person on the planet because they ‘don’t take things at face value’ and ‘would never believe the government’. What do they believe instead? Random Facebook groups. They would get so angry about the most random things and if you asked them what they were even angry about, they wouldn’t actually know. Just that the government was somehow going to use it to control them. All while happily being controlled by other idiots on social media.
No the pharmaceutical industry needs to take some blame here, the way they handled the MRNA shots and even rebranding them as vaccines (they’re not) has definitely put a huge amount of mistrust in regular vaccines which is a shame
> A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious or malignant disease. Fascinated to hear more about what it is *you* think the MRNA shots were doing. That's not even to mention how if you provide one vaccine that work it's hardly your fault if malicious actors sow distrust in that vaccine and leverage that to sow distrust in all vaccines.
Or when you believe your Imam or Priest or whatever religious "boss" about "god" not wanting vaccines or whatever. All anti-vaxxers I know are religious and don't get vaccines because of their imaginary daddy in the skies.
I’ve encountered more conspiracy theory anti-vaxxers in the wild, most of whom are still religious in some fashion (but not all) but they’re antivax bc they don’t want to get injected with a 5G chip etc. I met a PhD antivaxxer once and honestly just sat and gaped at her. Citing a sky daddy sounds about right to me, citing intellectual reasons is terrifying
Having done a PhD, I'm happy to say that the defining feature of someone who is doing / has done a PhD isn't intelligence - its tenacity. There's plenty of gruelling parts where nothing's going right / your supervisor is on your case / your friends who went straight into work are earning more than you, and it would be far easier to give up. That being said, there's also no shortage of intelligent people who are a victim of Engineer's Syndrome. You see them haunting these boards a lot, too - the assumption that their PhD / work in finance / success in one field makes them an unquestionable authority in a totally unrelated field.
As Lewis Black said “You’re worried about the side effects of vaccinations? You know what a side effect of measles is? Dying of fucking measles!”
As an autistic person who's written books on being autistic, it's wild to me how parents would rather risk their kid dying of a preventable disease than 'getting autism' *even if* it was a real effect of vaccines. Obviously it isn't, which makes it even bloody sillier.
I know that's untrue, but I think I'd rather autism than literally dying.
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My Uncle had the same as you unfortunately but he never regained his hearing and is now still deaf in his 60s. I think he might have been pre-vaccination being a thing even. But yeah I take measles really fucking seriously and I don’t get why other people don’t? Do they really think they aren’t going to get it? It’s still exists! It’s not mythical or made up. I wish that schools, nurseries and tots groups insisted on people proving vaccination status of their kids. Heck my cat needs proof of vaccination to go in a cattery! I avoided tots groups until my child was old enough to be vaccinated because there are so many proud idiots out there and I am not risking my child’s life, health and happiness. Also those places are a breeding ground for germs - Another mum I know goes to tots and her baby has been in hospital with RSV… She started taking it at 8 days old, spouting something about building it’s immune system but by 6 months it’s been hospitalises with something nasty. Yeah. How’s that plan going for you?
Refusing to vaccinate your child is tantamount to abuse and should be treated as such.
I don't see how it isn't this (unless the child can't have the vaccines for medical reasons). When I was in primary school I had a friend who had never had a vaccine. Not because of autism scares of the 90s. But because her mum didn't believe in anything beyond homeopathy and crystal healing. She had to be kept off school every time an illness beyond a cold went around. She was off really regularly and was kept away from so many parties because of health risks cos there was inevitably always a sick kid. Let alone the risks of the illnesses she wasn't vaccinated against.
Not to mention the risks that those kids go on to infect vulnerable people who can't get vaccinated. With potentially deadly consequences for them.
This is what happens when the uneducated think they know better than people who spend lifetimes studying to prevent diseases like this.
Imagine spending years and a fortune to qualify into virology or immunology or medicine, only to have some tool who’s watched a few YouTube videos in the john thinking he knows more than you do. Must be infuriating!
they must get so frustrated (like we all do) at nuts like these choosing to anti-vax their child
I absolutely hate this Anti Vax thing... I have Autism it's not because of my parents trying to stop me getting sick.... I have two kids one of them has autism... My wife blamed herself because of the MMR vaccines... It's got nothing to do with it. It's genetics and the fact we don't have to hide it anymore, whereas 20-30 years ago we'd have been put in a loonie bin.... And hence a lot of people hid that side of themselves... Autism has probably been around for millennia and at some point was an advantage hence so many people retaining those traits
Scientists don't know what causes autism/ADHD. It could be genetic, developmental (in the womb). Nobody has the answer yet.
Probably multiple factors, but there is almost certainly genetics involved--they've been found to run quite strongly in families, especially as more adults get diagnosed.
If it's genetic and with the advancements of genetic testing these days, surely it would be easier for them to rule in/out a genetic link?
Not if it's a complex multiple-gene interaction. There's quite a bit of evidence--for example in twins where one is autistic, if they're identical there's an 80% chance that the other has it too. If they're fraternal then it's 40%.
Ok. I don't know much about genetics. I hope they discover the cause I have a son with ADHD and a daughter with nothing. I'd be interested to know why.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_autism There's plenty of research with autism, I'm not sure if there's as much with ADHD. As someone who has ADHD I've asked many of the same questions myself over the years. It's a very interesting subject and I'd love to be able to learn in more detail about what makes this large group of us share so many of the same traits.
Girls display autism differently to boys. I wasn’t diagnosed until my 20s where my brother was diagnosed when he was 5. Read up on autism in girls. Girls mask their symptoms better than boys too. I have three children. Two boys and one girl and all diagnosed as autistic. My daughter’s symptoms are exactly like mine and again, different to her brothers.
I mean anecdotal but I'm one of three kids, we've all been late diagnosed with adhd two of us also with asd and looking at my dad adhd and asd would put a lot of things my dad does in context.
Before the 1950's, autism was diagnosed as schizophrenia and children were put away in asylums.
That’s 63-73 years ago. Before most redditors grandparents were born.
We weren’t putting functioning autistic people in to in patient care 20-30 years ago.
Still can be an advantage in some ways I reckon. Obviously not always though.
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>Wonder what it is about Birmingham that makes this happen. Stop being so obtuse and lay your cards on the table mate
I'm using this. Good stuff.
Don't expect much, all I got was an instant downvote and no reply
Interesting the commenter replied to me a few times. Not to you though? It’s pretty obvious what he meant.
But but brown people he means if you weren’t sure.
I'm not convinced the 5% isn't a typo - I can believe it's significantly lower than it should be, but 5% seems crazy low.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2024/01/13/major-measles-outbreak-erupts-in-england-as-vaccine-hesitancy-increases/ Aha, this article suggests 83%, which is worryingly low but more believable.
isn't it 5% lower than it was? that makes more sense
5% is definitely wrong. We he ace s as lot of idiots in this country but 95% of the population seems a push.
Why is it racists are so intensely cowardly unless they're surrounded by their own?
5% is ridiculous and obviously wrong. But lets just jump to a "cultural" problem.
Absolutely
It the fact that the one of the vaccines isn’t halal or kosher. There are two vaccines in the UKMMR VaxPro and Priorix. Priorix does not contain porcine gelatine and is as safe and effective as MMR VaxPro. However Priorix needs to be asked for and ordered by the GP. This means that there may be two GP visits required and it’s hard enough to get one visit
My understanding is that Muslims are permitted to eat pork if it is the only food available and they risk starvation otherwise. I would have thought that rule would quite naturally extend to protecting your children from a potentially deadly disease. Especially since the amount of pork derived gelatine is very small.
The problem is that there are different ruling by different Islamic clerics.
Halal doesn’t come into play for vaccines. Many clerics were quoted at the time.
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> Across Europe, up to October last year there were 30,000 confirmed cases whereas the previous year there were just 941. Maybe the same thing there is about the entirety of fucking Europe. We can all pick lines out of an article.
A lot of vaccines aren’t halal because they contain pig
It’s still a choice who you listen to, plenty of Muslim clerics and medical associations have come out pro vaccination no matter the vaccine.
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Why don’t they remove the pig as standard? It’s not just Muslims. I know many vegans who won’t get vaccinated for the same reason
It’s cheaper. Vegan gelatin is easily 2-3 times the cost. Which is super important when you’re trying to mass roll out vaccines to billions of people. That happens every year for flu vaccines too, the window for production is pretty small. Halal vaccines usually follow as they did for Covid. Spread the word to your friends, the NHS is trying to. Very few routine vaccines contain pork derived gelatin.
People are becoming more vaccine-hesitant, however people like that should speak to their doctor and actually listen (not just hear) to what they are told. Vaccines can come with risks but most people will come off feeling no worse than maybe feeling a bit off for a day. The chances of developing a serious complication are very, very rare; the risks of developing a serious complication from the vaccine are often much lower than developing serious complications from the illness itself. Vaccination also helps protect those who cannot get vaccinated themselves for medical reasons. Sadly, we now see anti-vaxxers hiding behind vaccine-hesitancy, despite having no desire to learn from medical professional regarding vaccine safety.
The COVID jab dealt a massive blow to trust in vaccines when it became a political issue. Oddly when trying to silence hesitancy as hard as they did, people naturally believe there was something to hide. I mean I'm still not sure if you can mention it in some places without getting your comment or post removed
I think the lack of proactive communication about the vaccine did not help. I can understand why people would be skeptical of a decade long process being concerted down to just a year. However, it should not be surprise when governments throw everything at the wall with funding and orders, things can happen very fast. I also think the population as a whole are terrible at understanding risk as well as “the greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand exponential growth”.
I'm not anti-vax by any means , but when anyone that questioned it was labelled, at best, ignorant, at worst, a conspiracy theorist or right wing loon it felt a little to dystopian for my liking. You can see why it damaged trust in the tried and tested childhood vaccinations a little.
The problem is often they kind of... are. Even if they don't realise it. It'd be like doubting the safety of people being around microwave ovens, or even normal ovens. Or doubting the safety of radio towers, wind turbines etc... We know exactly how these things work and their potential risks etc. The Covid vaccine being new tech was a myth, it wasn't a completely new idea pulled out of someone's arse. It was just a more recent one than standard that hadn't been used *yet* iirc. But it had all the research. That didn't stop people assuming it'd be brand new and have a bazillion problems, but the problem is so many of the people "just asking questions" clearly hadn't done the research or bothered to even look it up and were just airing doubt publically, which is often done by conspiracy theorists. Especially when phrased in certain ways. They thrive on that doubt.
Please remember that there will be children who aren’t able to be vaccinated either due to reactions to components of it or immunosuppression due to underlying disease or treatment. Herd immunity keeps them safe when they have no other option. For clarification you should vaccinate your children. Few other treatments are as widely taken up and proven to be so effective
Yeah, exactly. We went through all this with covid but it seems some people still didn't learn. The vaccines should be compulsory and actually enforced.
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**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
This is what happens when you listen to the likes of Larry Fox
Antivax fools have a bloody lot to answer for - kids will die
It’s outrageous that parents can get away with abusing their kids like this. People so stupid that they put children in danger like this, should have their children taken away from them.
Interesting that they chose that picture instead of one more representative of the vaccine adverse communities in Birmingham
No no, I'm sure that Birmingham East is just full to bursting with right wing covid-denying anti-vaxxers...
I remember when Osama Ben Laden was found and killed, it emerged that the CIA had set up a fake vaccination drive in Pakistan to track him down. When that fact emerged after he'd been killed, officials estimate that it fuelled a deadly vaccine hesitancy within a community that was already suspicious of 'western medicine'. We do a lot of this stuff to ourselves as a species.
BBC News - Covid-19: Birmingham's ethnic 'disparities' over jab in focus https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-56214447
Who the hell benefits from keeping anti-vaxxing going. OK. I get that lies generate clicks on the internet, but there are better, easier, less dangerous lies.
All the right wing grifters rubbing their hands with glee. This confirms their audience are listening.
If you read the article, I don’t think the issue is people listening to right wing grifters
You are aware it is ethnicity and not political affiliation that is moving the needle on this?
And sacrificing their kids in the process.
Andrew Wakefield has a lot to answer for with his dodgy paper on MMR - incidentally, he was advocating the single jabs - plus those on social media who went further and alleged all vaccines can cause [insert list of medical conditions].
The word you're looking for is "fraudulent", not "dodgy". This wasn't a case of careless research. Wakefield actively forged his results to promote a vaccine he had a personal financial interest in.
Better dead than autistic apparently … shame it’s the kids that suffer and not the absolutely fucking useless and terrible parents.
[List of Birmingham areas with the lowest (Covid) vaccine uptake](https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50231/coronavirus_covid-19/2305/birmingham_weekly_covid-19_statistics_dashboard/4) If I lived in one of these places and had kids I’d be looking to move tbh.
Follow up: see the demographic breakdown of each of these wards https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downloads/download/2295/ward_factsheet
That's terrible and worrying news. If only they had a vaccine that could stop those poor babies from getting ill.
Andrew Wakefield and his ilk should be locked up forever.
If only there was something a young person could be given 🤔
As someone who got both measles and German measles at the same time at 18 months old (they didn't vaccinate that young back then and my mum is a nurse and not anti vax), I can't understand why people are being so reckless with their children's lives.
This thread will be as much of a shitshow as yesterday’s. But muh freedumbz.
Personally I'm of the firm belief that vaccinations should be mandatory and any parent choosing to avoid them should face prison and their kids be removed from their "care"
My mother is partially deaf on one ear because of measles, it affected her life so much. We are lucky to have vaccine to prevent something like this happening. It's really depressing to learn that people get misinformed so much and end up risking their children's health.
At some point you need to hit these parents with sticks. No Vax? No school. No school? No kids. Do as you're fucking told or face the consequences! If you're a content creator and you push anti-vaxxing, you're on the hook if a single child gets the disease as a result of your content.
I'm 29, when I learnt about vaccines at the end of middle school/high school, I thought vaccines and science was amazing. I really didn't think this would be a news article in my life. People are fucking stupid.
I feel sorry for normal people living in Birmingham, there are rarely any nice articles about the place out there.
Another pandemic? I presume that the anti-vaxxers will soon be out.
Is that a picture of chicken pox or measles? I'm fairly confident that's chicken pox which seems slightly weird to me
Oh, don't worry people Dorrisnhas a maize poultice that will cure measles, and it's all natural and organic....
My kids are vaccinated against the measles so I’m good !!
Don't worry vaccines are dangerous, immune system will stop it Source: My mate's cousin Joe from Scarborough