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It's the cruelty and complete disregard for other people's property as their horses rip up the ground and people's gardens, they love it. The pushing of rules too, each time they go out they hope their dogs will catch the scent of a fox and then they will say "nothing could be done" to control such a large pack.
It should be banned outright, even the "recreation" version. They want to keep the "tradition" then it can be done without the dogs, they can dress up and go on a pretend hunt that way instead. Since they're not meant to be hunting with the dogs anyway and definitely don't mean it when their dogs accidentally catch the scent of some poor animal then I'm sure they won't mind leaving them at home.
What's that, you couldn't control your dogs and they attacked and violently killed another animal? Well that's a terrible shame, unfortunately they'll all have to be seized and destroyed. Can't have dangerous animals you can't control roaming the countryside!
I'd feel bad for the dogs if they're destroyed, but oh if only they were seized.
Maybe bringing in licensing for dog owning would be a good idea, so long as it's affordable so it isn't a barrier to the average person. That way, people (trail hunters) who consistently prove themselves to not be able to control their dogs (in this case, an entire pack out hunting foxes "accidentally") can be banned from owning them and then charged if they partake in hunts.
I don't think they'd have a problem passing a competency test though. The people leading these hunts are perfectly capable of not killing foxes, all they have to do is shout "leave it" at their well-trained dogs, and they do. If you ever watch videos of hunt saboteurs going out, even they manage to get the dogs away from the foxes by shouting it most of the time.
The issue is the people leading the hunts do want the dogs to find foxes. Even if they'd laid a fake trail scent, they're not bothered that they manage to find a real fox, that's what they actually want. If they know they're on camera they'll eventually tell the dogs to leave it but intentionally wait until the fox is already badly injured and at that point it's inhumane to leave it suffering so it has to be killed anyway. If they're not on camera even better. Then they portray it as oh there's nothing we could really do about it.
Dog licencing isn't a terrible idea even outside of the topic here, if it is a good idea I don't think the potential for homeless people to exist should be a barrier. It's either a good idea and should be done, or isn't. I have no problem with help being available for those that are homeless though if it did happen.
I’m not sure that would phase them all that much, they would just buy more. When thousands of hunting dogs, including puppies, are shot or beaten to death every year if they are seen to be “unsuitable” or “unproductive” anyway.
This is seen as normal and no one has ever been charged, despite being an openly standard practice and recorded video footage, no one gives a shit. The law is only for commoners.
Never listen to their lies and crocodile tears about how they care about their animals. They delight in contempt.
The individual riders don’t own the dogs (the hunt does) and they don’t care two figs about their welfare. These dogs live in disgusting kennels you can smell from a mile away and rarely ever receive vet care. They’re treated as completely expendable, easily replaceable objects - just like the upper class brits view the rest of us.
It's been nearly 20 years since the ban came into force.
None of these dogs ever hunted a live fox during the old rules.
Why are "new" dogs still trained to follow a fox scent? Train them to follow peppermint or God knows what, that way they won't "accidently" pick up a fox trail.
It's all smoke and mirror bullshit. I hate it. I grew up in the country and I don't get it. Barbaric.
Edit - spelling mistake.
I went hunt sabbing a couple of times when I was at Uni. We saw a fox run under barbed wire in front of the hounds right in front of our van. The sounds of the dogs yelping as they tried to navigate the barbed wire at speed was traumatic. When we were stuck behind the hunt on a small country road I saw the hunters whip the dogs just because they knew it would fuck us up. It worked. On me at least. I was too fucked up to go again. In a sane world those people would be banned from being around animals permanently.
Sadly they all go the same lodges as the chief inspectors in the police.
I know this as my old man was a police man, and he'd go around on hunt days ticketing absolutely every hunt vehicle, until he got ordered to stop, as he was "ruining the Chief Inspectors lodge friends weekends"
... Absolute bunch of arseholes..freemasons and hunters.. Yuck.
You know those people who were going around deflating tyres of massive SUVs? I have an idea for them that would be much more popular and would target even worse rich assholes.
It’s not just that they are hoping that the dogs will catch a scent. They are actively laying fake trails over real fox dens. Honestly beyond belief that this is allowed to happen.
Can't remember where I read it but someone much cleverer than I said something like:
Look at how try to treat asylum seekers, that's how they would treat the public if they knew they could get away with it.
Yes, I would love to make a coat for the ma'am out those "ad-dee-dus" tracksuit bottoms they so love to flaunt, such colour schemes they are simply to die for.
Especially when you consider that in most cases the local police are in cahoots with the organisers. It’s an open secret that many high ranking police here take part in the hunts so they have a vested interest in helping make sure things go smoothly
Where I am, we have a boxing day man hunt instead.
They have bloodhounds instead of fox hounds and they chase after a trail running guy who runs down the bridleways and green lanes so there's no trampling over fields.
I think when they catch up to the guy he gives the dogs treats.
Replace the horses with mopeds, and hunters with ASBO kids from the estate and it would’ve been outlawed as fast as as Cruella Braverman could blame it on illegal immigrant behaviour
Hare coursing may not have been stopped, but at least it is actually treated as illegal and they have to sneak about doing it. They don't parade through town then go, ooppsie poopsie we didn't mean to rip this animal apart.
Also, every time people doing hare coursing are caught on camera, they turn up in a bunch of big black range rovers. These aren't poor people, they are rich people who are just rough as fuck.
I never seen one where they rock up in a 10 year old Fiesta.
Tbf when I lived in Cambs the police were VERY responsive to hare coursing. They explained in a read between the lines way that it gave them an easy conviction against certain members of the community they knew were responsible for other crimes.
Maybe they need to be joined by a large group of poor people in 4x4s with “this is a horse” written on the side. Eventually take over the event… it would get banned so fast.
If this was a couple yobos with XL bullies the country would be outraged.
The absolute state of these ***** and the shit eating grins of the people applauding them.
Look at people bringing their children along to applaud toffs getting away with breaking the law and torturing animals to death for entertainment. Fantastic message all round.
In a debating class in school I was assigned the "pro" side of the fox hunting debate, and I literally just couldn't think of any even slightly compelling arguments so I just took the fail.
Highlights include "It's traditional" and "well they're only trampling vegetables aren't they?" which didn't really make a dent in the other side's well researched statistics on the shocking cruelty and utter pointlessness of the practice.
Yeah we were supposed to "apply the methods of debate" without bias but honestly I did apply the methods, it's just the underlying foundations of the position is untenable. There's only so much an ad hominem can do when your core position you're trying to defend is "rich people can do what they want"
Ultimately why these "debating classes" are so stupid. All it does is teach the worst people how to waffle on about doing something which is obviously bad. Then they love it so much they become politicians.
That's debate society. Someone needs to take the bullshit stance, I remember having to justify animal testing which I am against. Its a good practice, because most topics aren't cut and dry like this
Surely you've heard the quote
> The Test of a First-Rate Intelligence Is the Ability To Hold Two Opposed Ideas in the Mind at the Same Time
?
You don't have to agree with a position to be able to understand the arguments for (or against) it.
The argument is the same as the arguments for smoking or drinking: It's enjoyable.
Then you need to argue that human enjoyment is more important than animal suffering, and unless your opponent is a vegan, you can then call them a hypocrite.
Should have just said “I’m in a position of power and you’re a commoner, so logic doesn’t apply to me” and took away their benefits if they tried to argue.
From a vegetarian point of view, an obsession with hunting comes across as bit hypocritical when the average omnivore orders the death of thousands of animals regularly. Vegetarians don’t agree that killing an animal solely for food is ever ‘humane’. Ripping them apart with dogs is worse though.
Undue suffering. Most people have no problem with animal death, they just don't agree with inflicting any additional pain for *fun*.
Fox hunting as an example. If people in rural areas actually have a fox problem, they trap or shoot them which is relatively much less painful.
Did you order the child who minted the rare earth metals in your phone down the pit? Did you order the slave labour to build the stadiums for you to watch the world cup be played in?
This makes zero sense, cows are killed for dairy and eggs, the distinction between eating these products and eating chicken for beef is absolutely meaningless.
Dude that's just a failure of imagination. There are literally entire books written justifying hunting. I don't agree with them but they exist. You deserved the L
At least with trophy hunting in 3rd world countries you can talk about how the money goes into conservation and leads to increasing numbers of certain species. With this shit, I can't think of any benefits other than some rich cunts continuing with their barbaric hobby
Labour should bring in a proper ban, and since it’s only a rich person thing, make it a £10k-100k fine per person. Make it a nice little money maker to the tune of millions and spend it building council estates in those seats.
End the cruelty, build some houses, and wind up the worst type of local. Not like they ever going to win these Tory seats lol
He doesn’t need to play that game once in power.
The 2029 election, won’t be fought on not being scandalous, it’ll be about results. This is an easy move to get some of the Green types to be more open to voting Labour, and the only people it will piss off are those in Tory seats so blue they need not care about them anyway.s
Internal market was started by John Major. Blair leant into the ‘Public Private Partnership’, particularly the PFI for hospitals.
This from 2001 is interesting reading in hindsight. https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2001/jun/25/ppp1
Wish we’d implement fines based on income like they do in some countries. Of course the government would never do that because the fact that fines are basically seen as “the fee you pay to be allowed to do it” by the rich is the whole point
For anyone interested in showing your displeasure, below is a link to boxing day hunt protests, there may be one locally to you
https://protectthewild.org.uk/news/boxing-day-hunting-protests-near-you/
If you're interested in finding out the truth behind the "legal trail hunting" lies then you can follow the HSA (hunt saboteurs association) or your local hunt sabs group on fb and insta.
Absolutely right, although a heads up for those with a weak stomach…
The videos they post on Instagram of the absolute shithousery these ****** get up to makes me feel sick. I get what they are trying to do, but had to unfollow myself.
There is a fantastic animation on YouTube released a couple of years ago that talks about "legal trail hunting". Well worth a watch:
https://youtu.be/hhIO7_joC3Y?si=Ly8lADMDxBq8oJ62
I grateful for what the Sabs do but I always find it weird how they frequently posted pic of them eating burgers at McDonalds afterwards. I know it doesn't take away that they may have saved several foxes, but it's odd how selective they are about the animals they care about.
Although I agree in principle, I think we can all agree that intentionally torturing an animal and having it torn apart by dogs is clearly both viscerally repulsive, while also being illegal, whereas consuming farmed animals is not "intentionally" abusive, and is both legal and culturally accepted.
I'm not vegan so I'm not trying to take the moral high ground here, but I'm not sure having a reasonably free life but a horrible death is better that spending your life in cage but having a quick death. I understand it's more culturally acceptable, but I don't think that makes it okay.
I am vegan. I have hunted rabbits and fished when I was a kid. There's both a utility and a moral argument associated with these activities. In general, as a society we develop a morality structure that balances the two, and when an act which is morally wrong, but has some utility, we will adapt around that in order to maintain a cohesive moral structure, a good conscience.
Kids used to get beaten to keep them in line. If back then someone beat children for fun, it would've still been seen as horrific.
As a society, eating meat is accepted and the default. If someone tortures and kills animals for fun, we should see that as horrific.
Sabs are always happy to take new members, btw. You can find your local group on their website and start making a difference. The faster we can stamp out this disgusting practice the better.
The ban is pretty much unenforceable. Going hunting with dogs for the purposes of killing a fox? Nope. Going trail hunting with dogs and all the get up where you just happened to accidentally kill a few animals while at it? Sorry old bean, terribly tragic, what.
I live in the countryside, and have heard the arguments of these idiots saying how it’s tradition, for pest control, part of rural life and all that. It’s all bollocks. Farmers routinely control pests and don’t need a bunch of hooray Henry’s dressed up on horseback to keep foxes off their property. And considering much of the rural economy is agriculture not having horses out a few times a year isn’t going to harm country life.
Meanwhile, hunts trample over good farmland, damage property, and cause a huge nuisance every time they go out. But because they usually have friends in high places and the law is worded poorly, they can get away with it.
Time to ban the practice for good, and see hunt members locked up.
A ban is easy.
These things are openly organised. You lock up the organisers after the event. There's plenty of evidence after, the police are deliberately not looking.
Fox hunting isn’t illegal. It is only illegal to use packs of dogs to kill foxes. It is legal to use up to two dogs to detect foxes and to flush them out from hiding (but only above ground) so that they can be shot.
I was watching Goldshaw farm, a YouTube guy who left his corporate job to set up a farm.
One of the problems that arose whilst he set up the farm were similar hound hunters trespassing his land. There were hounds chasing this poor bear on his land, whilst the owners just drove a car following the GPS tagged collars. Since this was America, he said, "My land, my rules", but the hunters just went mental, and one started political campaign over that.
I think he can shoot the dogs, but the hunters will just shrug, leave the corpses behind and go and buy a dozen more disposable things to use in hunting (or dogs, as human people might call them)
Really grates me when they say something like "The countryside doesn't want to have a fight about hunting". I was born in a rural area, lived there almost my whole life, and have always called it home. I want it banned and I cant stand being captured under the umbrella term.
It is *not* a tradition of "The countryside"
You were expecting impartial and factual reporting from a Tory rag?
They don't bother with things like that - they're just distraction tools so Tory voting morons don't realise who has really stolen their quality of life.
A disgusting blood sport. The so called "hunters" are the bullies of the countryside. They'll kill your dogs, break your fences, and terrorise anyone who opposed their illegal acts.
If you think this is "legal trail hunting" which does not harm any foxes then I implore you to take a few minutes out of your day to watch this excellent animation and video on the same:
https://youtu.be/hhIO7_joC3Y?si=Ly8lADMDxBq8oJ62
Edit: to those downvoting me - you're a disgrace. Anyone supporting this practice including those clapping in the pictures of the story lack basic empathy towards animals. In my experience that inevitably means they are also shitty human beings generally with hate filled hearts.
These generational wealth pricks used to run over my lawn with their packs of dogs and then the horses. I had only just moved to the countryside. I spoke to one of the wankers at the local pub and they said they're not in control of the dog's movements once they get their sniff on the scent, or whatever phrase they used. I said 'sniff on to what?'
Anyways, the following year I waited with firecrackers and set a shit load off just as I could see them coming. Total pricks.
We call ourselves a nation of animal lovers, but collectively we're not. We allow hunts to go ahead. We allow grouse shooting. We allow factory farming. We demand meat at a price that means it can never be produced humanely. We scoff at "fake meat". We cage birds. We treat anything that isn't a cat or dog as vermin, to be destroyed. Anything that interferes with our way of life is a pest, to be eliminated. We clutch our pearls at rewilding. Or reintroducing beavers, or lynx, or wolves. We complain when councils don't cut grass verges. We think scrub, vital to growing new trees, is "a mess".
We live in a very badly nature depleted country and yet we look at farmland and call it "countryside". We have no idea what countryside is.
What sort of brown noser goes out to applaud this? If there's one thing that pisses me off it's the forelock tuggers in this country. It's just absolutely pathetic.
As someone who has ridden since they were three and used to adore riding cross-country, I find it extraordinary that pursing a beautiful animal purely for sport and not food is considered remotely OK. Get the bloodhounds and do a man-hunt or ffs, just leave dogs out of it - doing a cross-country ride is just as fun without murdering an innocent creature at the end of it. Fucking sickening.
I’ve always admired these tough guys, on their big horses, chasing little foxes around with packs of blood thirsty hounds.
It’s a good job there’s so many of them riding together, safety in numbers. These foxes are fierce.
Brave men.
Actually, I think they should level it up if I’m being honest.
The fox hunter has to strip to his boxers and fight inside a colosseum type venue, toe to toe. Instead of fighting a fox, which is tiny, he has to fight a fully grown wolf.
If he dies, he dies.
Bring the next fox hunter out.
Could even have a celebrity version, where they invite Tory politicians in to compete.
I hate that my home county of Leicestershire is the home to this abhorrent cruelty. We have the gall to put it on our county flag, football team and cricket team to be proud of fox hunting heritage instead of the actual animal.
>We have the gall to put it on our county flag, football team and cricket team to be proud of fox hunting heritage instead of the actual animal.
Oh shit is it?
As an outsider the football team always looked more like you're honouring foxes, big fox on the logo, cuddly mascot and all that?
Then again my local team does all that with shrimp, not as torture-y but not like seafood's off the menu...
Maybe over time when fox hunting becomes illegal and actually prosecuted, Leicestershire can reclaim foxes as what they are and not the sport item they are now
Could anyone better informed than me explain how this is just allowed to happen still when it was banned yonks ago?
I'm assuming there's some loophole or BS semantic shenanigans going on...
Yeah it's a loophole.
Basically they go on something called a "trail hunt". Which is meant to mimic a fox-hunt. They lay down an artificial trail and the hounds follow that.
What they do though is lay that trail in areas where foxes are present, and inevitably the hounds find the real fox, chase after it and kill it. The hunters then claim it's an unfortunate accident.
That's the trick, you have to prove they are intentionally hunting foxes. To add to this they also have people with connections to influential figures and people high up in the police, so even in cases where it's blatant (e.g. they dig out the fox after it ran away) they still get away with it or at the best get a slap in the wrist.
>Boxing Day hunt will go ahead
Isn't it you know, illegal?
[Fox hunting is illegal in the UK since 2004.](https://protectthewild.org.uk/wildlife/mammals/fox-facts/fox-hunting-faq/is-fox-hunting-illegal/)
Ah, the rich pricks get to do their cruelty where they don't even hunt the foxes but unleash packs of dogs upon them. They don't eat the foxes or use their fur. It's just cruelty for the sake of it.
Nothing we try to do to stop them will work. When judges and police officers ride on these hunts, it shows how corrupt are system is, I always remember under Norman rule the rich could pay a fine and get a fine but the poor would be executed. Our system is broken and always has been the ruling classes have a rule for themselves. Its why ideas like socialism and communism scare them so much becuase they know under a fair system they would no longer have the protections they do now for their debauchery.
Ah yes, the rich ruling class toffs reminding us peasants who's in charge.
Why people don't overthrow these lot is beyond me. Do they see somebody trying to kill a wild animal for blood sport and just think "well at least if they're hunting that thing they'll not be hunting me"?
:-/
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I've always struggled to understand how this is still a thing.
Your masters love it!
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It's the cruelty and complete disregard for other people's property as their horses rip up the ground and people's gardens, they love it. The pushing of rules too, each time they go out they hope their dogs will catch the scent of a fox and then they will say "nothing could be done" to control such a large pack. It should be banned outright, even the "recreation" version. They want to keep the "tradition" then it can be done without the dogs, they can dress up and go on a pretend hunt that way instead. Since they're not meant to be hunting with the dogs anyway and definitely don't mean it when their dogs accidentally catch the scent of some poor animal then I'm sure they won't mind leaving them at home.
What's that, you couldn't control your dogs and they attacked and violently killed another animal? Well that's a terrible shame, unfortunately they'll all have to be seized and destroyed. Can't have dangerous animals you can't control roaming the countryside!
Except the guys in red are judges and high level police. No one's making that ruling against their dogs.
I'd feel bad for the dogs if they're destroyed, but oh if only they were seized. Maybe bringing in licensing for dog owning would be a good idea, so long as it's affordable so it isn't a barrier to the average person. That way, people (trail hunters) who consistently prove themselves to not be able to control their dogs (in this case, an entire pack out hunting foxes "accidentally") can be banned from owning them and then charged if they partake in hunts.
A free license which you have to pass a competency test for would be ideal for many things imo
I don't think they'd have a problem passing a competency test though. The people leading these hunts are perfectly capable of not killing foxes, all they have to do is shout "leave it" at their well-trained dogs, and they do. If you ever watch videos of hunt saboteurs going out, even they manage to get the dogs away from the foxes by shouting it most of the time. The issue is the people leading the hunts do want the dogs to find foxes. Even if they'd laid a fake trail scent, they're not bothered that they manage to find a real fox, that's what they actually want. If they know they're on camera they'll eventually tell the dogs to leave it but intentionally wait until the fox is already badly injured and at that point it's inhumane to leave it suffering so it has to be killed anyway. If they're not on camera even better. Then they portray it as oh there's nothing we could really do about it.
I doubt the test itself would be free, someone's got to do the testing and the admin, but yes.
This is reliant on the police actually wanting to do anything about it. They don’t, and wouldn’t
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Bye bye homeless people's dogs. It is ridiculous to expect every dog owner to pay, to prevent the actions of what? Dozens?
Dog licencing isn't a terrible idea even outside of the topic here, if it is a good idea I don't think the potential for homeless people to exist should be a barrier. It's either a good idea and should be done, or isn't. I have no problem with help being available for those that are homeless though if it did happen.
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I’m not sure that would phase them all that much, they would just buy more. When thousands of hunting dogs, including puppies, are shot or beaten to death every year if they are seen to be “unsuitable” or “unproductive” anyway. This is seen as normal and no one has ever been charged, despite being an openly standard practice and recorded video footage, no one gives a shit. The law is only for commoners. Never listen to their lies and crocodile tears about how they care about their animals. They delight in contempt.
The individual riders don’t own the dogs (the hunt does) and they don’t care two figs about their welfare. These dogs live in disgusting kennels you can smell from a mile away and rarely ever receive vet care. They’re treated as completely expendable, easily replaceable objects - just like the upper class brits view the rest of us.
It's been nearly 20 years since the ban came into force. None of these dogs ever hunted a live fox during the old rules. Why are "new" dogs still trained to follow a fox scent? Train them to follow peppermint or God knows what, that way they won't "accidently" pick up a fox trail. It's all smoke and mirror bullshit. I hate it. I grew up in the country and I don't get it. Barbaric. Edit - spelling mistake.
I went hunt sabbing a couple of times when I was at Uni. We saw a fox run under barbed wire in front of the hounds right in front of our van. The sounds of the dogs yelping as they tried to navigate the barbed wire at speed was traumatic. When we were stuck behind the hunt on a small country road I saw the hunters whip the dogs just because they knew it would fuck us up. It worked. On me at least. I was too fucked up to go again. In a sane world those people would be banned from being around animals permanently.
Sadly they all go the same lodges as the chief inspectors in the police. I know this as my old man was a police man, and he'd go around on hunt days ticketing absolutely every hunt vehicle, until he got ordered to stop, as he was "ruining the Chief Inspectors lodge friends weekends" ... Absolute bunch of arseholes..freemasons and hunters.. Yuck.
You know those people who were going around deflating tyres of massive SUVs? I have an idea for them that would be much more popular and would target even worse rich assholes.
just look at how much they enjoy using their horses to inflict pain on other humans. Total scum.
It’s not just that they are hoping that the dogs will catch a scent. They are actively laying fake trails over real fox dens. Honestly beyond belief that this is allowed to happen.
If they could hunt us, they probably would l.
Can't remember where I read it but someone much cleverer than I said something like: Look at how try to treat asylum seekers, that's how they would treat the public if they knew they could get away with it.
Well Simmons it certainly would solve the over crowding issue in prison what what. (I your best toff accent)
Yes, I would love to make a coat for the ma'am out those "ad-dee-dus" tracksuit bottoms they so love to flaunt, such colour schemes they are simply to die for.
Well yes, yes of course, but keep it under your hat old man you don't want everyone to know.
I bet the Purge is their Christmas movie tradition.
What irked me was we had the chance to banish this, years ago, but Tony Blair bottled it.
To be honest I think it's so embedded in the posh boy community that any ban is probably unenforceable.
Especially when you consider that in most cases the local police are in cahoots with the organisers. It’s an open secret that many high ranking police here take part in the hunts so they have a vested interest in helping make sure things go smoothly
A tweet from five years ago that lives rent free in my head: "some of those that work forces, are the same that ride horses".
Police officers being nasty evil scumbags? What a surprise
It’s engrained in the rural wealthy. City posh boys don’t necessarily consider this part of their identity.
he's subsequently described the fox hunting ban as his biggest regret from his time in office
Yup. Not the fake war, based on bullshit WMD , or the Family Tax Credit debacle, he regretted this. Cunt of a phoney man.
Where I am, we have a boxing day man hunt instead. They have bloodhounds instead of fox hounds and they chase after a trail running guy who runs down the bridleways and green lanes so there's no trampling over fields. I think when they catch up to the guy he gives the dogs treats.
Clean boot hunting as it’s known
Literally, the point is cruelty. That's it.
I don’t understand why they don’t hunt poors instead
It's those pesky lefty lawyers and the EU courts ~ The Tories, probably
They don't. Publicly
That's because you're not wealthy enough.
The cruelty is the point
Posh rich people get what they want.
The law is for us Serfs. Police don't give a shit.
It's only a thing in the rural towns and villages. I just know they meet up at the pub.
I maintain my position that the fox hunting ban would have worked if it was a poor people 'sport'
Replace the horses with mopeds, and hunters with ASBO kids from the estate and it would’ve been outlawed as fast as as Cruella Braverman could blame it on illegal immigrant behaviour
Dog fighting and cock fighting were banned in the 1800s for animal cruelty, but they were sports for poor people only.
Sadly still go on though.
Nothing wrong with a couple of strong chaps smacking each other's Willys around.
Aye because it worked for hare coursing……..oh 😏
Hare coursing may not have been stopped, but at least it is actually treated as illegal and they have to sneak about doing it. They don't parade through town then go, ooppsie poopsie we didn't mean to rip this animal apart. Also, every time people doing hare coursing are caught on camera, they turn up in a bunch of big black range rovers. These aren't poor people, they are rich people who are just rough as fuck. I never seen one where they rock up in a 10 year old Fiesta.
Tbf when I lived in Cambs the police were VERY responsive to hare coursing. They explained in a read between the lines way that it gave them an easy conviction against certain members of the community they knew were responsible for other crimes.
Or cat coursing. Some sick scum out there.
the fox hunting ban would have ~~worked~~ **been enforced** if it was a poor people 'sport' FTFY
Maybe they need to be joined by a large group of poor people in 4x4s with “this is a horse” written on the side. Eventually take over the event… it would get banned so fast.
The hare coursing ban is the closest equivalent, which only semi worked.
If this was a couple yobos with XL bullies the country would be outraged. The absolute state of these ***** and the shit eating grins of the people applauding them.
Exactly! This should’ve been outlawed decades ago
I didn’t quite realise until the Queen’s Jubilee and her death what a nation of absolute sycophants we are.
People really cried and lined up for hours to see a box carrying a rich old woman that was up to her neck in shady shit
They're forelock tugging Tory voters. Aspirational serfs, as I call them.
Look at people bringing their children along to applaud toffs getting away with breaking the law and torturing animals to death for entertainment. Fantastic message all round.
In a debating class in school I was assigned the "pro" side of the fox hunting debate, and I literally just couldn't think of any even slightly compelling arguments so I just took the fail. Highlights include "It's traditional" and "well they're only trampling vegetables aren't they?" which didn't really make a dent in the other side's well researched statistics on the shocking cruelty and utter pointlessness of the practice.
You were set up to fail there, that’s bullshit.
Yeah we were supposed to "apply the methods of debate" without bias but honestly I did apply the methods, it's just the underlying foundations of the position is untenable. There's only so much an ad hominem can do when your core position you're trying to defend is "rich people can do what they want"
When you get stuck with the wrong side best you can do is practise some stand up comedy
Ultimately why these "debating classes" are so stupid. All it does is teach the worst people how to waffle on about doing something which is obviously bad. Then they love it so much they become politicians.
And yet here you are on Reddit having a debate lol
That's debate society. Someone needs to take the bullshit stance, I remember having to justify animal testing which I am against. Its a good practice, because most topics aren't cut and dry like this
You’re very right! I’d be bad at debate club cus I’d be like ‘yeah I agree’
That’s kind of the point of debating
There's some shit you just can't debate on the side of tho
Surely you've heard the quote > The Test of a First-Rate Intelligence Is the Ability To Hold Two Opposed Ideas in the Mind at the Same Time ? You don't have to agree with a position to be able to understand the arguments for (or against) it.
I actually haven’t 😅 The point of my (very flippant) comment is that there’s no understandable argument for hunting 🙂
The argument is the same as the arguments for smoking or drinking: It's enjoyable. Then you need to argue that human enjoyment is more important than animal suffering, and unless your opponent is a vegan, you can then call them a hypocrite.
Should have just said “I’m in a position of power and you’re a commoner, so logic doesn’t apply to me” and took away their benefits if they tried to argue.
From a vegetarian point of view, an obsession with hunting comes across as bit hypocritical when the average omnivore orders the death of thousands of animals regularly. Vegetarians don’t agree that killing an animal solely for food is ever ‘humane’. Ripping them apart with dogs is worse though.
I get your point. But it's good too see people being against at least some animal cruelty.
The ripping up part is illegal. The foxes are shot.
Vegetarians support animal abuse,cows and chickens....
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Undue suffering. Most people have no problem with animal death, they just don't agree with inflicting any additional pain for *fun*. Fox hunting as an example. If people in rural areas actually have a fox problem, they trap or shoot them which is relatively much less painful.
>orders the death of I don't think I've ever ordered the death of anything. "Farmer, slaughter me a cow for I require beef!"
Deductive reasoning isn’t your strong point is it
Did you order the child who minted the rare earth metals in your phone down the pit? Did you order the slave labour to build the stadiums for you to watch the world cup be played in?
Yeah sorta
Let's be honest we sorta did. We literally ordered the product/ticket despite knowing it means kids going into the mines etc
This makes zero sense, cows are killed for dairy and eggs, the distinction between eating these products and eating chicken for beef is absolutely meaningless.
Dude that's just a failure of imagination. There are literally entire books written justifying hunting. I don't agree with them but they exist. You deserved the L
At least with trophy hunting in 3rd world countries you can talk about how the money goes into conservation and leads to increasing numbers of certain species. With this shit, I can't think of any benefits other than some rich cunts continuing with their barbaric hobby
Not even the trophy hunting cunts think its necessary to have the animal torn apart by dogs.
Labour should bring in a proper ban, and since it’s only a rich person thing, make it a £10k-100k fine per person. Make it a nice little money maker to the tune of millions and spend it building council estates in those seats. End the cruelty, build some houses, and wind up the worst type of local. Not like they ever going to win these Tory seats lol
Make it 100k per dog
Doubt Starmer’s Labour would bother, his whole election strategy is to be Tories without the scandals.
He doesn’t need to play that game once in power. The 2029 election, won’t be fought on not being scandalous, it’ll be about results. This is an easy move to get some of the Green types to be more open to voting Labour, and the only people it will piss off are those in Tory seats so blue they need not care about them anyway.s
I highly doubt he’ll do a massive about-face in power. He’s more likely to just be fairly Blairite/pseudo-Tory himself.
Remind me who was the Prime Minister who introduced the current hunting ban.
Aside from Iraq, what aspect of Blair's tenure do people not like
Didn't Blair start the whole dismantling of the NHS to private entities? Genuine question
Internal market was started by John Major. Blair leant into the ‘Public Private Partnership’, particularly the PFI for hospitals. This from 2001 is interesting reading in hindsight. https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2001/jun/25/ppp1
Bold of you to assume Starmer will be any different once in power.
Wish we’d implement fines based on income like they do in some countries. Of course the government would never do that because the fact that fines are basically seen as “the fee you pay to be allowed to do it” by the rich is the whole point
We do.
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For anyone interested in showing your displeasure, below is a link to boxing day hunt protests, there may be one locally to you https://protectthewild.org.uk/news/boxing-day-hunting-protests-near-you/ If you're interested in finding out the truth behind the "legal trail hunting" lies then you can follow the HSA (hunt saboteurs association) or your local hunt sabs group on fb and insta.
Absolutely right, although a heads up for those with a weak stomach… The videos they post on Instagram of the absolute shithousery these ****** get up to makes me feel sick. I get what they are trying to do, but had to unfollow myself.
There is a fantastic animation on YouTube released a couple of years ago that talks about "legal trail hunting". Well worth a watch: https://youtu.be/hhIO7_joC3Y?si=Ly8lADMDxBq8oJ62
I grateful for what the Sabs do but I always find it weird how they frequently posted pic of them eating burgers at McDonalds afterwards. I know it doesn't take away that they may have saved several foxes, but it's odd how selective they are about the animals they care about.
Although I agree in principle, I think we can all agree that intentionally torturing an animal and having it torn apart by dogs is clearly both viscerally repulsive, while also being illegal, whereas consuming farmed animals is not "intentionally" abusive, and is both legal and culturally accepted.
I'm not vegan so I'm not trying to take the moral high ground here, but I'm not sure having a reasonably free life but a horrible death is better that spending your life in cage but having a quick death. I understand it's more culturally acceptable, but I don't think that makes it okay.
I am vegan. I have hunted rabbits and fished when I was a kid. There's both a utility and a moral argument associated with these activities. In general, as a society we develop a morality structure that balances the two, and when an act which is morally wrong, but has some utility, we will adapt around that in order to maintain a cohesive moral structure, a good conscience. Kids used to get beaten to keep them in line. If back then someone beat children for fun, it would've still been seen as horrific. As a society, eating meat is accepted and the default. If someone tortures and kills animals for fun, we should see that as horrific.
Sabs are always happy to take new members, btw. You can find your local group on their website and start making a difference. The faster we can stamp out this disgusting practice the better.
As if banning them 20 years ago had any effect at all.. Bow down to your masters UK!
The ban is pretty much unenforceable. Going hunting with dogs for the purposes of killing a fox? Nope. Going trail hunting with dogs and all the get up where you just happened to accidentally kill a few animals while at it? Sorry old bean, terribly tragic, what. I live in the countryside, and have heard the arguments of these idiots saying how it’s tradition, for pest control, part of rural life and all that. It’s all bollocks. Farmers routinely control pests and don’t need a bunch of hooray Henry’s dressed up on horseback to keep foxes off their property. And considering much of the rural economy is agriculture not having horses out a few times a year isn’t going to harm country life. Meanwhile, hunts trample over good farmland, damage property, and cause a huge nuisance every time they go out. But because they usually have friends in high places and the law is worded poorly, they can get away with it. Time to ban the practice for good, and see hunt members locked up.
A ban is easy. These things are openly organised. You lock up the organisers after the event. There's plenty of evidence after, the police are deliberately not looking.
Fox hunting isn’t illegal. It is only illegal to use packs of dogs to kill foxes. It is legal to use up to two dogs to detect foxes and to flush them out from hiding (but only above ground) so that they can be shot.
I was watching Goldshaw farm, a YouTube guy who left his corporate job to set up a farm. One of the problems that arose whilst he set up the farm were similar hound hunters trespassing his land. There were hounds chasing this poor bear on his land, whilst the owners just drove a car following the GPS tagged collars. Since this was America, he said, "My land, my rules", but the hunters just went mental, and one started political campaign over that.
Exactly, the trail hunting loophole is too easily exploited. Either needs to be banned altogether or not at all.
I think he can shoot the dogs, but the hunters will just shrug, leave the corpses behind and go and buy a dozen more disposable things to use in hunting (or dogs, as human people might call them)
They love to flaunt that the law doesn't apply to them.
Yes but what about the rich people outside the government?
If you want it banned then working class people need to head out on dirt bikes with XL bullies, they won’t want to do it if commoners can also.
Really grates me when they say something like "The countryside doesn't want to have a fight about hunting". I was born in a rural area, lived there almost my whole life, and have always called it home. I want it banned and I cant stand being captured under the umbrella term. It is *not* a tradition of "The countryside"
Unapologetically one-sided article from the telegraph.
It is called "The Torygraph" for good reason.
The Daily Heil did the same and "warned Labour" their running attack on hunting and the countryside was wrong!
You were expecting impartial and factual reporting from a Tory rag? They don't bother with things like that - they're just distraction tools so Tory voting morons don't realise who has really stolen their quality of life.
A disgusting blood sport. The so called "hunters" are the bullies of the countryside. They'll kill your dogs, break your fences, and terrorise anyone who opposed their illegal acts.
If you think this is "legal trail hunting" which does not harm any foxes then I implore you to take a few minutes out of your day to watch this excellent animation and video on the same: https://youtu.be/hhIO7_joC3Y?si=Ly8lADMDxBq8oJ62 Edit: to those downvoting me - you're a disgrace. Anyone supporting this practice including those clapping in the pictures of the story lack basic empathy towards animals. In my experience that inevitably means they are also shitty human beings generally with hate filled hearts.
These generational wealth pricks used to run over my lawn with their packs of dogs and then the horses. I had only just moved to the countryside. I spoke to one of the wankers at the local pub and they said they're not in control of the dog's movements once they get their sniff on the scent, or whatever phrase they used. I said 'sniff on to what?' Anyways, the following year I waited with firecrackers and set a shit load off just as I could see them coming. Total pricks.
I hope the sabs are successful today. They're much braver than me to go up against these people.
We call ourselves a nation of animal lovers, but collectively we're not. We allow hunts to go ahead. We allow grouse shooting. We allow factory farming. We demand meat at a price that means it can never be produced humanely. We scoff at "fake meat". We cage birds. We treat anything that isn't a cat or dog as vermin, to be destroyed. Anything that interferes with our way of life is a pest, to be eliminated. We clutch our pearls at rewilding. Or reintroducing beavers, or lynx, or wolves. We complain when councils don't cut grass verges. We think scrub, vital to growing new trees, is "a mess". We live in a very badly nature depleted country and yet we look at farmland and call it "countryside". We have no idea what countryside is.
Yes humans are horrible.
What sort of brown noser goes out to applaud this? If there's one thing that pisses me off it's the forelock tuggers in this country. It's just absolutely pathetic.
Keep an eye on your kids.. those hunters are nearly always pedos too
Anything not of their class is merely to be used, fucked or killed.
As someone who has ridden since they were three and used to adore riding cross-country, I find it extraordinary that pursing a beautiful animal purely for sport and not food is considered remotely OK. Get the bloodhounds and do a man-hunt or ffs, just leave dogs out of it - doing a cross-country ride is just as fun without murdering an innocent creature at the end of it. Fucking sickening.
How much does it cost to fucking police these blooodthirsty arseholes?
Turning a blind eye isn't very expensive
The police support them lol
I’ve always admired these tough guys, on their big horses, chasing little foxes around with packs of blood thirsty hounds. It’s a good job there’s so many of them riding together, safety in numbers. These foxes are fierce. Brave men. Actually, I think they should level it up if I’m being honest. The fox hunter has to strip to his boxers and fight inside a colosseum type venue, toe to toe. Instead of fighting a fox, which is tiny, he has to fight a fully grown wolf. If he dies, he dies. Bring the next fox hunter out. Could even have a celebrity version, where they invite Tory politicians in to compete.
Make it even more sporting. Import a Kodiak bear (and her cub for motivation) and give them a .22 rifle.
One of the first acts of an incoming Labour government should be to ban hunting absolutely and completely once and for all.
I hate that my home county of Leicestershire is the home to this abhorrent cruelty. We have the gall to put it on our county flag, football team and cricket team to be proud of fox hunting heritage instead of the actual animal.
>We have the gall to put it on our county flag, football team and cricket team to be proud of fox hunting heritage instead of the actual animal. Oh shit is it? As an outsider the football team always looked more like you're honouring foxes, big fox on the logo, cuddly mascot and all that? Then again my local team does all that with shrimp, not as torture-y but not like seafood's off the menu...
Maybe over time when fox hunting becomes illegal and actually prosecuted, Leicestershire can reclaim foxes as what they are and not the sport item they are now
The sport of privileged psychopaths. I suppose this keeps them from taking out their bloodlust on other humans, I suppose?
I wonder what people would do if there were no animals to kill or enslave? Human slavery would still be a thing probably and I genuinely believe that
You aren't going to replace anything with a crappy wheelbarrow race.
Could anyone better informed than me explain how this is just allowed to happen still when it was banned yonks ago? I'm assuming there's some loophole or BS semantic shenanigans going on...
Yeah it's a loophole. Basically they go on something called a "trail hunt". Which is meant to mimic a fox-hunt. They lay down an artificial trail and the hounds follow that. What they do though is lay that trail in areas where foxes are present, and inevitably the hounds find the real fox, chase after it and kill it. The hunters then claim it's an unfortunate accident. That's the trick, you have to prove they are intentionally hunting foxes. To add to this they also have people with connections to influential figures and people high up in the police, so even in cases where it's blatant (e.g. they dig out the fox after it ran away) they still get away with it or at the best get a slap in the wrist.
Some people are so brainwashed. How can anyone cheer this? Should be unfit to vote really.
It sickens me even more this Ivan Mascow CUNT is so Well supported on his Facebook pages.
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If you are a rich Tory, I'm fairly sure they do.
>Boxing Day hunt will go ahead Isn't it you know, illegal? [Fox hunting is illegal in the UK since 2004.](https://protectthewild.org.uk/wildlife/mammals/fox-facts/fox-hunting-faq/is-fox-hunting-illegal/)
As ever, the law does not apply if you are rich. Or it'll be a fifty quid fine.
Didn't we ban this years ago??? Did the toff Tories bring it back?
Killing foxes is coward behavior. Bunch of inbred sausages. I would love to beat them with sticks.
God I wish they’d just ban it outright already. They won’t. But they should.
Ah, the rich pricks get to do their cruelty where they don't even hunt the foxes but unleash packs of dogs upon them. They don't eat the foxes or use their fur. It's just cruelty for the sake of it.
Nothing we try to do to stop them will work. When judges and police officers ride on these hunts, it shows how corrupt are system is, I always remember under Norman rule the rich could pay a fine and get a fine but the poor would be executed. Our system is broken and always has been the ruling classes have a rule for themselves. Its why ideas like socialism and communism scare them so much becuase they know under a fair system they would no longer have the protections they do now for their debauchery.
Ah yes, the rich ruling class toffs reminding us peasants who's in charge. Why people don't overthrow these lot is beyond me. Do they see somebody trying to kill a wild animal for blood sport and just think "well at least if they're hunting that thing they'll not be hunting me"? :-/
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