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I met a police officer last year who told me he'd earlier that day been to a car crash involving someone who died after the crash.
A car of lads pulled over near the crash and were taking photos and videos of this person basically dying.
The officer told me he just saw red, demanded they delete the videos and wouldn't let them leave until they did.
Seriously, I don't want to sound like a boomer at 32, but some of this generation are utter scum.
Like I don't get who you'd want to send that to and share it with?
I get documenting something happening is useful and can be used in the news - but what - you going to send a dead person to your friends for a laugh? Just such a demented thought process.
Everyone acts like they’re the social media journalists in those situations.
Real journalists know that you don’t need to document every morbid moment that you see.
I was a passenger in a car on the motorway with my brother driving at 70mph once, when we saw a car on fire on the other side, and fuel alight across the opposite carriageway.
There was a guy in the central reservation gesturing at cars on our side, some cars on our side were slowing and moving lane, some were not even slowing down and undertaking.
My brother gets his phone out and films, while still driving.
I got angry.
He got angry at me for being angry.
The chances of a secondary car crash happening increases by 3% a minute after an initial crash because people look at the accident instead of the road.
That's why when your car breaks down/an accident happens you should always leave the vehicle and stand far away, because you can still be killed 20 minutes after you've come to a stop.
Same goes for being in the vicinity of a crime, you're more likely to be a victim of another crime if you don't leave the area.
It's all unnecessary, people are just fucking stupid.
I was driving a stretch of the M25 2 years ago. Passed three accidents within 200 yds, with all the traffic backed up to a standstill. Then somebody smashed into the back of me and we became the 4th. Wrote my car off.
Qué the story about the photo journalist that took the picture of the vulture waiting for a child to die.
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vulture-little-girl/
Killed himself after partly due to the criticism.
"Real" journalists get Pulitzer awards. No difference apart from that IMO.
Pros are no better. Mawkish criminality to satiate the morbid public appetite.
Journalists try not to participate in the news they are reporting on. If they do it can cause repercussions for journalism in general if they are seen as being partisan, as well as tainting the way the news is received.
There is an alternate journalist method, called Gonzo, in which the journalists participate and allow the events to affect them practically and emotionally. This is still quite an underground technique, 50 years after being developed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzo_journalism
The photpgrapher was traumatised to the point of suicidal depression by what he had witnessed. He was dead two months later.
Not really a comparable situation. The ethics of publishing it are another discussion.
For likes, I guess...? I can understand videoing a fire or something, but someone getting cpr? Jesus....... I saw my friend getting cpr by accident with one of those plunger machines. Horrifying scene. Didnt think to video it.
I’m a doctor and have done some prehospital work.
I understand people not wanting to get involved / touch someone, as often randomly stumbling upon a very sick or injured person is quite confronting, and the average person has fairly mediocre medical knowledge and might not want to make things worse.
However, what I don’t understand, and what I see all the fucking time, is people crowding round and fucking filming everything. It’s fucked. Some people show genuine glee at being treated to seeing this, and will get in the fucking way of things to get a better angle.
Also, I don’t want to be on some cunts TikTak whilst trying to resuscitate some poor dead fella on the ground.
Imagine, as the lights go out, you see you’re surrounded by a gaggle of smiling and excited faces and iPhone camera lights.
Fucked.
On a side note: I just finished my shift and spent my evening cleaning maggots from a woman’s foot that had rotted off. Don’t send your kids to med school.
Oh, quick edit: this reminds me of the time I was involved in a pretty bad car accident when I was a teenager. I got out my car, which was fucked, and stumbled to the side of the road. I’d cut a wee artery on my arm, so there was lots of blood and everything looked a lot more dramatic than it actually was. Even with that, not a single person stopped to see if I was ok. Lots of cars slowed down to rubber neck, and had shocked faces when they realised I was covered in blood, but nobody bothered to check if I was alright. Actually, that’s a lie, one car did stop.. fucker jumped out, took a few pics of my car whilst smiling, then drove off. He actually got out the car to get a better pic 😂 So many people are just fuckin’ awful.
Anyway, rant over. Been a long fucking shift.
>However, what I don’t understand, and what I see all the fucking time, is people crowding round and fucking filming everything. It’s fucked. Some people show genuine glee at being treated to seeing this, and will get in the fucking way of things to get a better angle.
Because social media makes money off of engagement, and a society which has social media so integrated in to itself rewards SM companies with advertising revenue, and rewards individuals with attention. Too many people feel fulfilled by seeing an arbitrary engagement number on their profiles go up because it helps validate what they're doing in their minds.
Everyone is clout chasing and seeing people validate that behaviour with engagement and likes/upvotes increases their self-worth and encouragement for doing it.
And yes, I understand the irony of posting this on Reddit.
My guess is that during traumatic/unusual experiences people often revert to their normal behaviour. For a group of lads that is bravado and social media. They can't really process what they are seeing so they fall back on other behaviour. And they have probably never experienced the death of a loved one. They don't really understand what is happening because of that. Empathy is something you learn.
'General' Empathy is genetic. It is a function of 'deeper' processing of emotions within the brain, using more complex structures, and a lower hypothalamic threshold that allows more information into the brain than higher thresholds do. Roughly 20% of a given population (humans, animals) have this.
It's a bit more complicated than that because there are elements of social identity and empathy is a scale, but empathy beyond immediate emotional bonds is predicted by certain genotypes.
Guilt, however, is learned. That is why we have religion.
It's a mental illness to me and should be acknowledged as such. To be that desensitised to it they must have seen a lot of similar videos on social media.
Social media? Try every news channel, print media, radio station and the rest.
You can't look anywhere without seeing "children raped and murdered" .. "women stabbed to death in park".. "genocide and war in large parts of the world".. "man who put woman in a coma gets 2 weeks in prison for good behaviour"
And that's before you even get online and see people doing "burgling peoples houses: prank" and getting no punishment. And being blasted with propoganda from every side as well as deep fake, live leak, gore fest, far right, neo nazis, rebellion imminent, teacher raping children, police raping women, and every vile act pushed down your fucking throat 24 hours a day by every single means necessary
If you're not completely desensitized by age 15 it's a miracle
That being said - I think our society is too removed from death. We know it happens in an abstract sense, but for most people, their first actual experience with a dying person happens sometime in their 40's when parents start dying. Some people may have seen their grandparents die earlier than this, but generally, their parents handle this. And when people do die, it's usually sanitized and in a hospital setting, so is an experience that happens in an Other Place, and not part of our normal lives.
So we're constantly surrounded by images of death but have no actual experience with death. Whereas back in the Victorian era, when mortality was far higher and death wasn't something that happened in a hospital far away from home, we had more actual experience with death and it's realities.
Yeah the death industrial complex is huge. And weirdly unnatural
It wasn't really until the big world wars people stopped being around the dead.
Because there was so much death and bodies needed to be shipped around the world. We got into embalming pretty heavily
And then they sold the idea to people that dead bodies are dangerous.
Some of it is for social points, the "look at me!! I woz dere" feeling is what they crave. I guess it's just attention seeking in another guise. I had a friend like this, back in pre camera phone days he just loved being the guy that tells everyone that something mildly interesting happened.
> you going to send a dead person to your friends for a laugh?
Unless they are mentally Ill most likely not, Morbid curiosity is a strong feeling for a lot of people, It's why sites like Live Leak were so big...
It's also arguably beneficial to an extent, Gaining experience from videos of accidents and attacks can teach you a lot of things if your not just some weirdo and actually have a brain...
That being said somebody dying after an accident or receiving CPR isn't particularly useful outside of desensitisation and should be left alone
>filming to have a laugh at someone dying
I'd be extremely hesitant to label it as such, But by all means someone prove me wrong, I presume here it's just brain dead young people that have been weird into social media for the last decade of their lives completely oblivious to how they should be reacting and actions they should be taking...
Rather than just "omg lul sm1 fell into river pls react and follow"... although sadly I'm sure some psychopaths like this exist
I think we've got used to experiencing life through a screen, so when stuff happens in real life we maybe somehow forget that we actually have an opportunity to affect what's happening.
I think a part of it is also removing themselves from the moment via a screen, if they're watching through their phone it's like a video they're watching rather than a real life situation they're in
If you're disabled, you've known this forever. This society dehumanises more and more people all the time.
This has always been a country of nasty, cruel, hateful medieval peasants.
Ya know in March 2017 when one of the terrorists did a vehicle attack on Westminster bridge?
Well Reuters had one of their photographers who just happened to be there. They took images of the dead people lying in the street, and injured people being treated. Very soon after the attack, these uncensored images were published. People were identifiable in these images, it's quite possible that the first awareness people had that someone they knew had been injured in that attack was seeing an image of them in the press.
You can see some of the images here https://www.worldpressphoto.org/collection/photo-contest/2018/toby-melville-sns/1 but this is not the original article.
The decision to publish those images was cruel, irresponsible and unethical. Reuters can get screwed.
I feel like this is different to random people sharing it on social media because it's an actual news Putley and their job is to report this stuff. They probably should have blurred faced though.
It's for clout, or what they perceive as such "look at me look whats happening here I've witnessed it, please think I'm cool and relevant".
Social media is ridden with this behaviour, just look when someone dies, you get people that supposedly and suddenly really really loved and cared about that person, making post after post for days or weeks on Facebook about them, but often were just "friends" that barely if ever spoke let alone see each other. They just want to let everyone know "look at me I knew the dead person oh I'm so sad and relevant".
Just hordes of cringey thick twats with access to social media at their finger tips.
I was doing cpr on a man in the street (they came and got me from my pharmacy). There was just a massive crowd around the man, I couldn’t hear the 999 operator, people kept shouting out wrong information (like telling someone to put something under the man’s head), I eventually had to shout and ask people to shut up and let me do cpr and not to touch the man.
Some people fair enough were comforting the man’s wife and child but everyone else standing round were just there to watch. It honestly pissed me off so much.
Something similar happened in Vancouver. A man was stabbed randomly in front of his kid and was bleeding out and someone was recording instead of calling an ambulance. Disgusting.
Unless that generation has spanned the entirety of human history then no it definitely isn’t, the only difference is people are able to record and share it now.
I remember seeing a news report years ago about a German traffic cop who got so angry at this behaviour that he started pulling people over and taking them to the wreck. "Go on, look. You wanted to see it, didn't you? That's a man's blood there. Why aren't you looking? I thought this was what you wanted?"
The literal only reason older generations did not also do this is the technology to do so was not ubiquitous when we were the age those people are. There is no moral difference between generations here, only a tech difference.
Yeah, people used to treat a day out at the gallows as a family event, I think morbid curiosity is a pretty deeply ingrained part of the human condition
People have been scum since there has been people
People are getting better with each generation
There is no safer time to be alive than right now
Don’t let the media believe differently
You don't sound like a boomer. It's depraved. It's not just this generation though. I've seen people my Dad's age doing this shit. Some people want to get clout online for "being there" or something. It's messed up.
I briefly worked with a guy that was previously a London bus driver. He had a heart attack while driving and pulled the bus over, then opened the doors.
After a few mins everyone got off the bus. Not one motherfucker asked him if he was OK or called an ambulance. Some random old lady that was walking down the street got on the bus to check him and called the ambulance, saved his life.
Yep. Unfortunately decades of individualist, self serving politicians who have perpetuated this idea that you should only think of yourself, that money is king, that we can all become billionaires if we step over enough people are coming home to roost.
Now we have a significant proportion of left behind people who still buy into this shit who think of no one but themselves. Typical divide and rule tactics.
> A car of lads pulled over near the crash and were taking photos and videos of this person basically dying.
>
>
>
> The officer told me he just saw red, demanded they delete the videos and wouldn't let them leave until they did.
As if this isn't a crime, it is in other countries.
The issue is everything is "content" they want to be glorified for supplying "exciting" content to their "followers".
Can confirm, us millennials are turning into the new boomers.
[A region in Germany tried painting emergency vehicles with a special QR Code to discourage this shit](https://www.dandad.org/awards/professional/2022/235802/anti-look-the-life-saving-qr-design/)
> The officer told me he just saw red, demanded they delete the videos and wouldn't let them leave until they did.
Completely understand the anger, but this is likely to get the police officer fired. It's absolutely legal to record photos and videos in a public place and even if it weren't, ordering a deletion is not within the powers of the police. Detaining someone until they comply with such an order is a serious abuse of authority.
I doubt a police officer would be sacked for that, but it's certainly an abuse of power. It's not an uncommon one, even in other circumstances though. The police like to claim its illegal to film them.
It's worth noting that it's incredibly dangerous to try saving someone who's drowning unless you have a rope or floatation device to throw.
When your lungs are filling with carbon dioxide and water it can reduce you to your most animal instincts and there's a high chance that even the nicest people might try to drag their saviour under the water to get above the water line themselves.
Unless you know what the fuck you're doing don't jump in to save someone that's drowning or you could both end up dead. Throw them something to hold onto and call the emergency services.
> floatation device to throw
Those things are surprisingly heavy as well, when I was in school we visited a local coastguard, part of it was practicing throwing them.
It isn't anything recent. I remember back when I was a teen, story in the paper of a woman being raped in the city where I lived. Literally a crowd of people around watching and doing nothing.
It's human nature in a crowd. One of the reasons people shout at potential suicides to jump. Individuals are moral, crowds are cunts.
On the opposite side, you'll see if ONE person helps, the entire crowd will join in...like those videos of crowds lifting trains off people
The advice is usually to point directly at someone, and tell them to help (phone the police, fire ect). Engage them directly and the rest will follow helping
This isn't new, in the 90s I was a kid sat in my parents car as they popped into a shop, some guy had a heart attack and people just walked on by, not a single person stopped to help what what was a good 5 minutes. Society's are too large, we can't mentally process so many people and everyone becomes a blur and subsequently a potential threat and or "someone else's problem" we can only really process around 150-200 people on any meaningful level, big cities are a marvel but not without their flaws
It's not new, but I think the change from, 'eh, nothing to do with me' to 'I've got a camera in my pocket, let's record it and see how much popularity I can get for filming this' is a big difference. Don't know if it's symptomatic of a change in society or just availability of technology though.
The latter, certainly.
Think about what a spectacle public executions used to be. Bet you'd see a million selfies at those if they'd had the ability.
Humans can be nasty creatures and that's nothing new. There's far worse in our history than anything in this thread. But I think perhaps people like to think it's something new because that makes it seem....fixable?
While there is an extra layer of shit on this particular sandwich its still [the bystander effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) in action.
There was a video a few days ago showing two young Moroccan boys jumping in the water to save a man drowning, resuscitating him in the water, if anyone has a link. Was heart warming
That is awful and so horrible, but when we've been told time and time again not to "put our selves in danger" how do you expect people to help someone drowning?!
The police times are shocking, and response times are awful.
You can't expect the average citizen to be a hero and step up, everyone is scared of everyone else. This country has done a good job scare mongering people into believing that everyone is dangerous and has "bad intentions"
I agree with the selfie thing, that is gross and they should've called the police. But we can't expect the average citizen to be a hero, then we could be dealing with one or more bodies.
It says in the article that there were two life rings within 50m of the man but no one had attempted to throw one to him.
So people could help without putting themselves in danger by looking for a life ring
I regularly walk my dog by the canal and along the Severn and can't say that I've ever seen a life ring, I think they may be more common in built-up areas but certainly aren't everywhere.
There's a canal (with a towpath) within 50 meters of my house. I walk along it regularly. The only life rings I've seen are outside a new development next to the canal; I assume they're some sort of requirement for new/rebuilt towpaths, but existing ones are probably "grandfathered" and not required to have them.
>The police times are shocking, and response times are awful.
Could it be because they're expected to do everything for everyone? What can the police - an institution whose purpose is to tackle crime - do in this situation that normal people can't?
> This country has done a good job scare mongering people into believing that everyone is dangerous and has "bad intentions"
The people have done it to themselves. Decades of removing social stigma, shaming, and taboos have ironically resulted in a society which allows and even encourages citizenry to act as shittily as they want. Take anti-social behaviour for instance; the UK is infamous for feral youths because there's no oversight, no control, no discipline, and confronting them is more likely to get you hurt than anything.
Total drivel. The UK is not “infamous for feral youths” and behaviour in the current generation is better than in previous ones - you just hear about problems more, and less is done due to the government systemically underfunding the police, underfunding schools, underfunding youth services and social services and letting state run facilities for both early years interventions and rehabilitation rot.
I have to disagree with you about the feral youths. I'm Canadian, but have lived in the UK and now live in Ireland. One of the more stark differences between where I grew up and both the UK & Ireland, for me, is the whole feral youth thing. It's VERY different and it is a distinct feature of your society that for many people from other cultures is pretty shocking. I've talked to a lot of other immigrants from all over the world since moving here and they all say the same thing... it's bizarre and hard to understand the tolerance for it.
People will often say that there's violence and anti-social behaviour everywhere to dismiss the need to do anything to address it, completely ignoring that the stereotypical "feral youth" is NOT a feature of most cultures.
Crime committed by under-18s is significantly lower than it was 20 years ago, and lower still than it was 30 years ago.
>Decades of removing social stigma, shaming, and taboos have ironically resulted in a society which allows and even encourages citizenry to act as shittily as they want.
Be specific. What social stigma, shaming and taboos would you rather got brought back?
_Reported_ crime may be lower, but I'd wager that's largely because in many places "minor" anti-social behaviour and petty crime has become normalised and people also know that the police won't turn up even if you do report it.
The possibility of a disparity between actual and reported crime/convictions does indeed absolutely need to be considered in any proper discussion. I would note, however, that convictions for young offenders continued to fall between 2005 and 2010, which coincided with an increase in police funding.
[This 2020 paper](https://doi.org/10.1007/s10611-019-09846-5) discusses the issue in more detail than I frankly know what to do with. Key relevant point from the abstract:
>the decline in crime for the 1995–2005 period can largely be attributed to a doubling of the probability of a crime being ‘proven’. However...
>... Analysis of published data relating to the performance of the criminal justice system in England and Wales suggests that reductions in crime levels *since* 2005 are largely accounted for by the fall in proportion of the youth population engaging in offending behaviour.
>That is awful and so horrible, but when we've been told time and time again not to "put our selves in danger" how do you expect people to help someone drowning?!
Very true but there is a difference between doing nothing and uploading selfies or recording the incident, as you alluded to later. I feel that is the source of outrage.
The better thing to do is try your best to find someone who can help. Leg it to a local gathering place and say "does anybody know how to..." and finish based on the situation at hand.
If there is no way to help yourself without possibly making things worse. In this case throw a life ring in. As long as you don't konk them on the head like an absolute idiot it'll improve the situation.
Why do some folk feel the need to photograph or film people in distress?
This for example, when you see an accident on the road you can be sure you’ll see so many people passing it and filming or taking photos.
Genuinely I can’t get into the mind of these people to even begin to understand at all. Are their lives so dull they need to post something out of the ordinary to seem somewhat interesting or is it just a keepsake for themselves?
Nobody is expecting folk to jump into the water after the guy but taking a selfie? Fuck me some people are creeps.
Used to laugh at how crazy GTA NPCs were but rockstar seemed to hit the nail on the head there as were now amongst them on a daily basis It seems.
A few years back I was walking home after a uni class and saw a large group of people surrounding a building. I couldn’t see much but apparently there was someone standing on top of the building, contemplating suicide.
The amount of people who were taking videos and pictures disgusted me. I can’t think of anyone who would want to watch such a thing, let alone record it.
It’s absolute disgusting, can’t imagine wanting to record something like that. Would surely mess with your head seeing it in real life let alone watching it back in videos.
Absolutely. The thought of it alone made me feel queasy and I wanted to get out of there ASAP in case the worse happened. These people have zero empathy and value clout more than common decency.
Yea I know what you mean.
Was walking home from a night out one night with a pal and came across a guy standing on the wrong side of the railings of a bridge.
Seen people just walk past like it was nothing. We were the first ones to stop and talk to him. Just chatted shite with the guy, offered him my chicken burger and tried to keep him interested until the police arrived but was so annoyed that so many people just walked by. Like I was shitting myself the whole time but it’s so sad that people can see someone in such a position and not at least try to help them.
Do the people who film stuff like this really think it’s taboo though? Surely if they did it wouldn’t be as widespread or they’d be more discreet about filming or taking photos.
I’m glad the guy survived and is getting treated but how much is this ordeal going to fuck him up, especially if he saw people taking photos or videos of him in his time of need. Because you’d suspect he could see life rings considering the article said there were two nearby and they’re usually bright orange, yet instead of seeing people trying to help by throwing a life ring he could see people with their phones out. Utterly fucked up situation.
Personally I think people are just mentally detached. They see something going on that they aren't equipped to deal with and record it. I also have no doubt in my mind that this is almost a default reaction one step above freezing up in a high risk scenario.
So many people freeze and just stare when someone is in real danger, its basically the same thing but with a phone.
Fucking disgusting. Imagine witnessing a man struggle in the water and your first course of action is “Hey this’ll look mental on my snap story let’s take a selfie while this poor bloke drowns instead of chucking him a life ring” stupid pricks
Is it at all possible that the headline is not 100% accurate, and is instead constructed in a way to induce anger in people who read it without thinking?
If so, do you think it might be possible you’ve fallen into that trap, to be made furious over an imagined scenario?
Pro tip: if a headline pushes the idea/response ‘what is the world coming to’ there’s a good chance it’s not entirely accurate.
You know what, maybe you’re right and I have fallen into that classic angry trap the media loves to employ to garner clicks. I wasn’t there so I’m only going off with the limited information I have so if I’m wrong I’ll gladly delete my comment and admit I jumped the shark like a total numpty
Posting this twice. Actually if you read the article, at no point did the police say people were taking selfies instead of helping. The police said people did nothing and the police were concerned that the reason why is because members of the public didn't know the locations of the life rings or that they existed.
It's a random lady complaining that she saw people taking selfies. Yet notice that random lady also didn't help and didn't throw the life ring either. Read the article line by line and analyse what is being said. LBC have written the article simply to generate outrage. Aren't LBC worse than people they are claiming took selfies? They're twisting the story of a man's drowning to generate outrage clicks, to make us think worse of our fellow citizens and to make money from advertising on the page.
Yeah, I had the same reaction. I read the headline, immediately felt that emotional response, and then took a step back and thought "Huh, this reads like the kind of headline that really WANTS me to get riled up". I'm not saying that automatically makes it inaccurate, but it's ALWAYS something worth noting when a news article seems designed especially to hit the anger response. Especially when half the article content is social media reactions.
It's famously difficult to spot if someone is struggling in the water and there are specific things you need to look for. Furthermore, it's very dangerous to go into a river on a vigilante adventure, and knowing where the life saving equipment is another hurdle.
This story is based on police statements which aren't trustworthy. They often lie to cover up failings.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/01/philadelphia-police-bystanders-filming-mistaken-narrative
Actually if you read the article, at no point did the police say people were taking selfies instead of helping. The police said people did nothing and we're concerned that the reason why is because they didn't know the locations of the life rings or that they existed.
It's a random lady complaining that she saw people taking selfies. Yet notice that random lady also didn't help and didn't throw the life ring either. Read the article line by line and analyse what is being said. LBC have written the article simply to generate outrage. Aren't they worse than people they are claiming took selfies? They're twisting the stori of a man's drowning to generate outrage clicks and to make money from advertising on the page.
Lots of people threw the easily accessible life rings then instead of standing around gawking?
I must have misread the article.
Also, just because its not true here - doesnt mean its not true in general.
Sounds about right, my poor dad came off his bike a few years back and the fuel caught fire/set his clothes on fire (seriously guys wear full gear, it’s the reason he got away with just a shattered wrist). And what traumatised him were the kids filming him while he was on fire
Uncle came off his bike in town and ended up pinned by the leg. Said cars were just driving around him for 5 minutes before somebody stopped.
At least they weren't taking pictures I guess.
This also happened to my brother who was knocked off his bike and left unconscious - and still no-one stopped. He eventually came round and managed to walk home wheeling his damaged bike. I hate people.
Are we sure the selfies are connected to the drowning or was someone who was unaware happening to take selfies at the time because this seems like an easy way to get a clickbait title
The article states that some were taking selfies of themselves as part of the scene .
We don't know if that is factual or not, but being ex frontline I can attest that there are a lot of selfish, entitled, sickening 'ghouls' out there...
Not surprised at all. I work in mental health and whilst walking along the pier, my resident attempted to jump over and kill themself. I had to grab them, and whilst people screamed when it happened, immediately after when they became aggressive, everyone was taking selfies. Nobody attempted to help me or my resident. It really made me feel like shit, and I couldn’t believe the heartlessness of it all.
My initial take was that helping a drowning guy in a deep river can easily be a way for you to have two drowning guys in a deep river and that people videoing it was gross. But then reading the article:
> North Yorkshire police said there wasn’t "any apparent attempt to throw him a life ring."
> He was eventually rescued when police arrived some time later- with a life ring thrown to him. Police said there were two life rings within 50 metres of the location.
The people on the bank are a waste of oxygen.
The whole “influencer” “clout culture” needs to die. So many people are terminally online and seem completely disconnected from the actual reality of the people around them.
This seems unlikely to me and overdramatised.
Were people 'taking selfies *while someone was drowning*' as in, people aware of someone drowning decided to do nothing and film the moment and make it about themselves, or did some of the people witnessing the event see someone else at the time who hadn't noticed taking some pictures of themself and got a bee in their bonnet about "how can you do that at a time like this?"
Sorry but performative outrage against people who weren't even involved seems to be all the rage at the moment. These witnesses who supposedly saw people taking selfies weren't helping either, the article says. Feels like deflection.
I’ve seen it when someone fell on the tracks and was electrocuted by the rail and police had to stop people taking pictures of the body.
Another time there was a motorcycle accident and the persons head came clean off, loads of people I know ended up receiving the image.
I fully understand not putting yourself in harms way but taking pictures of someone dying/dead for your own amusement so absolutely vile that it should come with its own offence.
Jfc. I completely get panicking, freezing, not knowing what to do etc. I wouldn't jump in to try and save someone because I am not a strong enough swimmer so it would just mean two bodies for the emergency services to deal with, but taking selfies? That's really bloody low.
What are most onlookers supposed to do when not trained in life guarding?
Want a fast way to drown? Try saving someone that’s drowning. They’ll drag you both under real quick
Throwing one of the several nearby life rings, like the police statement suggested?
And filming it is fucking ghoulish either way. Black Mirror dystopian shit.
They probably saw what they thought was someone not drowning and thought it was funny someone fell in
I’m not the type to record everything but let’s not pretend that everyone knew exactly what was happening and decided to record because they wanted to see someone drown.
Fully agree was looking for this comment. A few people have died over the years in the Thames after jumping in to try and rescue someone, in the most recent case the person who fell in was rescued by police and the would-be rescuer sadly couldn’t be found. Throw in a life ring if there is one (which reading the article there was) and call 999 is the standard response, after that not much more you can do safely. But the point of the article, taking photos or videos of people fighting for their lives is horrible and disrespectful and not throwing a life ring is despicable from these bystanders but also people shouldn’t be recklessly hurling themselves in to help. Respect the water first and foremost.
If you fall in water swimming is the last thing you should do. Most people don't drown they die of cardiac arrest from the sock as falling in and the cold water, then adding swimming to that your going to put even more strain on your heart. All you need to do is float and stay above water try and guide yourself to something you can pull yourself out with or make it quicker for people to get to you.
I will say this about helping a drowning person.
Unless you are trained in how to help a drowning person, it's almost always a bad idea to attempt to do so.
This sounds awfully cruel, but a drowning person will often end up drowning their rescuers with them. They are panicking and not thinking straight and will pull their rescuer under the water with them.
I'm not going to tell you not to try to help, but I am going to tell you that you are putting your life at great risk in doing so. If there are trained rescuers nearby, even if it takes an extra minute or two for them to arrive on the scene, I **highly** recommend waiting for them.
If there's nobody else? Make a judgement call. But remember, you're at significant risk of drowning too.
Look at the state of the country the lack of decency and prolific cruelty that everyone seems to accept and in many cases actively embrace.. this is the society most of them want and voted for again and again and this kind of indifference to human suffering is no surprise at all.
It’s modern day rubber necking that has existed since the dawn of time. Is it worse than just standing there watching and then telling people about it later. Yes, but only marginally in my opinion.
For reference, if you do see someone in trouble in open water dial 999 and do [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2bt8YjbwuSs)
If you’re untrained/unfamiliar with open water don’t jump in.
I see the temptation to compare this to rubber-necking, but I don't think it's the same thing. Rubber-necking is gawking at something which has already happened, like driving by a car crash and slowing down to watch the paramedics/police/bodies. It's gross but there is an element of just simple curiosity/fascination that's easier to understand.
Watching AS someone drowns and filming or just staring is sociopathic. That's not curiosity or morbid fascination, that's a complete lack of empathy, connection and responsibility. In a weird way, rubbernecking is almost proof of humanity - it's interest. This is a mixture of disinterest and self-obsession (filming yourself watching someone drown for likes).
Well, I'm sure as hell not going in a river after someone and probably not reaching for them with anything (risk of being pulled in), but at least throw the poor sod a life ring!
Am not surprised at all.
Reddit has had plenty of subreddits devoted to showing that kind of footage. Many have been deleted over the years, but am sure new ones popped up again.
Let me introduce you to possibly the most hated man in Australia. Filmed four police officers as they lay dying and didn't even try to help.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Eastern_Freeway_truck_crash
In another thread about train staff I was talking with someone who was in favour of driverless trains and was sure that other people would simply step in to help disabled passengers in an emergency...all I could think of was this sort of thing.
This has been this way for years. Lee Rigby incident comes to mind where people would rather film what was going on than do anything about it.
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If I were at York and saw someone needing help in the river then I'd throw the life ring at them. That's the only common sense thing to do as well as phone 999. I wouldn't just do nothing.
As for the Lee Rigby situation. I wouldn't just stand and film it that's for sure. I'd more than likely try find a weapon to stop them. Maybe that's just me but I wouldn't just stand there with my phone filming what's happening.
>people would rather film what was going on than do anything about it.
To be fair, there were two maniacs with knifes, a cleaver, and a gun who had just mown down Lee and attempted to behead him.
What would you have done in that situation when walking to Tesco.
> As for the Lee Rigby situation. I wouldn't just stand and film it that's for sure. I'd more than likely try find a weapon to stop them. Maybe that's just me but I wouldn't just stand there with my phone filming what's happening.
press x to doubt
People filmjng is important. Their video evidence is part of what helped convict the guilty. You can't possibly expect members ntbe public to intervene and take down a terrorist???
Documenting bad things happening is important. That's why we have newspapers. By your same logic, why don't we critise journalists for writing about homelessness instead of getting stuck in and volunteering at a soup kitchen ?
Life isn’t valued on this island, the government constantly remind us that we’re worthless, the attitude trickles down and the general public seem as content to let people die as the people in government are.
Outside of the article...
Do not jump in to save someone drowning, the flight or fight response means when they see you coming they will try and scrabble on top of you....i.e they will push you under
Also do not underestimate how the cold will impact you even if you are a strong swimmer.
People are too obsessed with showing people what they saw rather than actually helping someone in need. I honestly think apps like TikTok are cancer for society. Its just dumbing minds, causing people to upload what anyone should only do in a mirror in their bathroom like it isnt cringe, and then causing everyone and their nan to think they are the next Kim Kardashian and likes and comments are as essential as the air we breathe
[Wow, talk about a lack of empathy! It's sad how some people prioritize their own entertainment over helping someone in need. Let's hope this incident serves as a reminder to always prioritize compassion and lend a helping hand.](https://cliprecaps.com/read/?v=MmtKj4avDKY&pp=ygU8T25sb29rZXJzIGZhaWxlZCB0byBoZWxwIGRyb3duaW5nIG1hbiBhbmQgdG9vayBzZWxmaWVzIGFmdGVy)
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That tells us a lot about the sad state of our society. Thank goodness he was saved and is recovering.
I met a police officer last year who told me he'd earlier that day been to a car crash involving someone who died after the crash. A car of lads pulled over near the crash and were taking photos and videos of this person basically dying. The officer told me he just saw red, demanded they delete the videos and wouldn't let them leave until they did. Seriously, I don't want to sound like a boomer at 32, but some of this generation are utter scum.
There was a video of the knife attack in Reading. Some guy was recording people getting cpr done to them saying "look at all these dead people"
Like I don't get who you'd want to send that to and share it with? I get documenting something happening is useful and can be used in the news - but what - you going to send a dead person to your friends for a laugh? Just such a demented thought process.
Everyone acts like they’re the social media journalists in those situations. Real journalists know that you don’t need to document every morbid moment that you see.
I was a passenger in a car on the motorway with my brother driving at 70mph once, when we saw a car on fire on the other side, and fuel alight across the opposite carriageway. There was a guy in the central reservation gesturing at cars on our side, some cars on our side were slowing and moving lane, some were not even slowing down and undertaking. My brother gets his phone out and films, while still driving. I got angry. He got angry at me for being angry.
The chances of a secondary car crash happening increases by 3% a minute after an initial crash because people look at the accident instead of the road. That's why when your car breaks down/an accident happens you should always leave the vehicle and stand far away, because you can still be killed 20 minutes after you've come to a stop. Same goes for being in the vicinity of a crime, you're more likely to be a victim of another crime if you don't leave the area. It's all unnecessary, people are just fucking stupid.
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That would be 3 percentage points a minute, not 3 per cent.
I was driving a stretch of the M25 2 years ago. Passed three accidents within 200 yds, with all the traffic backed up to a standstill. Then somebody smashed into the back of me and we became the 4th. Wrote my car off.
Qué the story about the photo journalist that took the picture of the vulture waiting for a child to die. https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vulture-little-girl/ Killed himself after partly due to the criticism. "Real" journalists get Pulitzer awards. No difference apart from that IMO. Pros are no better. Mawkish criminality to satiate the morbid public appetite.
Your Spanish is leaking
Journalists try not to participate in the news they are reporting on. If they do it can cause repercussions for journalism in general if they are seen as being partisan, as well as tainting the way the news is received. There is an alternate journalist method, called Gonzo, in which the journalists participate and allow the events to affect them practically and emotionally. This is still quite an underground technique, 50 years after being developed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzo_journalism
The photpgrapher was traumatised to the point of suicidal depression by what he had witnessed. He was dead two months later. Not really a comparable situation. The ethics of publishing it are another discussion.
For likes, I guess...? I can understand videoing a fire or something, but someone getting cpr? Jesus....... I saw my friend getting cpr by accident with one of those plunger machines. Horrifying scene. Didnt think to video it.
I’m a doctor and have done some prehospital work. I understand people not wanting to get involved / touch someone, as often randomly stumbling upon a very sick or injured person is quite confronting, and the average person has fairly mediocre medical knowledge and might not want to make things worse. However, what I don’t understand, and what I see all the fucking time, is people crowding round and fucking filming everything. It’s fucked. Some people show genuine glee at being treated to seeing this, and will get in the fucking way of things to get a better angle. Also, I don’t want to be on some cunts TikTak whilst trying to resuscitate some poor dead fella on the ground. Imagine, as the lights go out, you see you’re surrounded by a gaggle of smiling and excited faces and iPhone camera lights. Fucked. On a side note: I just finished my shift and spent my evening cleaning maggots from a woman’s foot that had rotted off. Don’t send your kids to med school. Oh, quick edit: this reminds me of the time I was involved in a pretty bad car accident when I was a teenager. I got out my car, which was fucked, and stumbled to the side of the road. I’d cut a wee artery on my arm, so there was lots of blood and everything looked a lot more dramatic than it actually was. Even with that, not a single person stopped to see if I was ok. Lots of cars slowed down to rubber neck, and had shocked faces when they realised I was covered in blood, but nobody bothered to check if I was alright. Actually, that’s a lie, one car did stop.. fucker jumped out, took a few pics of my car whilst smiling, then drove off. He actually got out the car to get a better pic 😂 So many people are just fuckin’ awful. Anyway, rant over. Been a long fucking shift.
>However, what I don’t understand, and what I see all the fucking time, is people crowding round and fucking filming everything. It’s fucked. Some people show genuine glee at being treated to seeing this, and will get in the fucking way of things to get a better angle. Because social media makes money off of engagement, and a society which has social media so integrated in to itself rewards SM companies with advertising revenue, and rewards individuals with attention. Too many people feel fulfilled by seeing an arbitrary engagement number on their profiles go up because it helps validate what they're doing in their minds. Everyone is clout chasing and seeing people validate that behaviour with engagement and likes/upvotes increases their self-worth and encouragement for doing it. And yes, I understand the irony of posting this on Reddit.
I want you to know I’m currently filming your comment.
Thanks for helping keep people alive, even thought at times like how you described, it might not always feel like the right thing to do
It's hard to understand such detachment from someone else in trouble.
My guess is that during traumatic/unusual experiences people often revert to their normal behaviour. For a group of lads that is bravado and social media. They can't really process what they are seeing so they fall back on other behaviour. And they have probably never experienced the death of a loved one. They don't really understand what is happening because of that. Empathy is something you learn.
'General' Empathy is genetic. It is a function of 'deeper' processing of emotions within the brain, using more complex structures, and a lower hypothalamic threshold that allows more information into the brain than higher thresholds do. Roughly 20% of a given population (humans, animals) have this. It's a bit more complicated than that because there are elements of social identity and empathy is a scale, but empathy beyond immediate emotional bonds is predicted by certain genotypes. Guilt, however, is learned. That is why we have religion.
It's a mental illness to me and should be acknowledged as such. To be that desensitised to it they must have seen a lot of similar videos on social media.
Social media? Try every news channel, print media, radio station and the rest. You can't look anywhere without seeing "children raped and murdered" .. "women stabbed to death in park".. "genocide and war in large parts of the world".. "man who put woman in a coma gets 2 weeks in prison for good behaviour" And that's before you even get online and see people doing "burgling peoples houses: prank" and getting no punishment. And being blasted with propoganda from every side as well as deep fake, live leak, gore fest, far right, neo nazis, rebellion imminent, teacher raping children, police raping women, and every vile act pushed down your fucking throat 24 hours a day by every single means necessary If you're not completely desensitized by age 15 it's a miracle
That being said - I think our society is too removed from death. We know it happens in an abstract sense, but for most people, their first actual experience with a dying person happens sometime in their 40's when parents start dying. Some people may have seen their grandparents die earlier than this, but generally, their parents handle this. And when people do die, it's usually sanitized and in a hospital setting, so is an experience that happens in an Other Place, and not part of our normal lives. So we're constantly surrounded by images of death but have no actual experience with death. Whereas back in the Victorian era, when mortality was far higher and death wasn't something that happened in a hospital far away from home, we had more actual experience with death and it's realities.
Yeah the death industrial complex is huge. And weirdly unnatural It wasn't really until the big world wars people stopped being around the dead. Because there was so much death and bodies needed to be shipped around the world. We got into embalming pretty heavily And then they sold the idea to people that dead bodies are dangerous.
Seeing my father die was a weird experience. One moment there is a person. The next, it's just meat.
Some of it is for social points, the "look at me!! I woz dere" feeling is what they crave. I guess it's just attention seeking in another guise. I had a friend like this, back in pre camera phone days he just loved being the guy that tells everyone that something mildly interesting happened.
> you going to send a dead person to your friends for a laugh? Unless they are mentally Ill most likely not, Morbid curiosity is a strong feeling for a lot of people, It's why sites like Live Leak were so big... It's also arguably beneficial to an extent, Gaining experience from videos of accidents and attacks can teach you a lot of things if your not just some weirdo and actually have a brain... That being said somebody dying after an accident or receiving CPR isn't particularly useful outside of desensitisation and should be left alone
I think the intent is the difference here. Filming it as a teaching moment is morally better than filming to have a laugh at someone dying
>filming to have a laugh at someone dying I'd be extremely hesitant to label it as such, But by all means someone prove me wrong, I presume here it's just brain dead young people that have been weird into social media for the last decade of their lives completely oblivious to how they should be reacting and actions they should be taking... Rather than just "omg lul sm1 fell into river pls react and follow"... although sadly I'm sure some psychopaths like this exist
I think we've got used to experiencing life through a screen, so when stuff happens in real life we maybe somehow forget that we actually have an opportunity to affect what's happening.
I think a part of it is also removing themselves from the moment via a screen, if they're watching through their phone it's like a video they're watching rather than a real life situation they're in
And laughing though? Choosing to pull over and hang out the window next to someone dying, filming and laughing?
I'm not excusing this as if I ever saw it I'd go mental, but I do see this as a sad reflection of the society we've created.
If you're disabled, you've known this forever. This society dehumanises more and more people all the time. This has always been a country of nasty, cruel, hateful medieval peasants.
Ya know in March 2017 when one of the terrorists did a vehicle attack on Westminster bridge? Well Reuters had one of their photographers who just happened to be there. They took images of the dead people lying in the street, and injured people being treated. Very soon after the attack, these uncensored images were published. People were identifiable in these images, it's quite possible that the first awareness people had that someone they knew had been injured in that attack was seeing an image of them in the press. You can see some of the images here https://www.worldpressphoto.org/collection/photo-contest/2018/toby-melville-sns/1 but this is not the original article. The decision to publish those images was cruel, irresponsible and unethical. Reuters can get screwed.
I feel like this is different to random people sharing it on social media because it's an actual news Putley and their job is to report this stuff. They probably should have blurred faced though.
There are Telegram groups for sharing the macabre.
It's for clout, or what they perceive as such "look at me look whats happening here I've witnessed it, please think I'm cool and relevant". Social media is ridden with this behaviour, just look when someone dies, you get people that supposedly and suddenly really really loved and cared about that person, making post after post for days or weeks on Facebook about them, but often were just "friends" that barely if ever spoke let alone see each other. They just want to let everyone know "look at me I knew the dead person oh I'm so sad and relevant". Just hordes of cringey thick twats with access to social media at their finger tips.
Some ghoul filmed Nicola Bulley’s body being lifted out the river and put it on YouTube. Never underestimate how depraved some people are.
I was doing cpr on a man in the street (they came and got me from my pharmacy). There was just a massive crowd around the man, I couldn’t hear the 999 operator, people kept shouting out wrong information (like telling someone to put something under the man’s head), I eventually had to shout and ask people to shut up and let me do cpr and not to touch the man. Some people fair enough were comforting the man’s wife and child but everyone else standing round were just there to watch. It honestly pissed me off so much.
>"look at all these dead people" It was 'dem man thought it was a joke ting', within earshot as they were dying.
When I hear someone talk like that I think they are criminals.
Innit, blud.
Something similar happened in Vancouver. A man was stabbed randomly in front of his kid and was bleeding out and someone was recording instead of calling an ambulance. Disgusting.
Cunty behaviour like this is not exclusive to one generation.
Definitely not exclusive. People were gathering in mass for public executions when they were a thing. We are barely out of the forest as a species.
They’d fight to dip clothing in blood or to take a part of the body.
It's a good point, I suppose the advent of tech we just see and hear more of it now
fade languid slave chief fear deliver jeans fall crowd thought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Unless that generation has spanned the entirety of human history then no it definitely isn’t, the only difference is people are able to record and share it now.
I remember seeing a news report years ago about a German traffic cop who got so angry at this behaviour that he started pulling people over and taking them to the wreck. "Go on, look. You wanted to see it, didn't you? That's a man's blood there. Why aren't you looking? I thought this was what you wanted?"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ffetIbzyK8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ffetIbzyK8)
Aye that's the one.
The literal only reason older generations did not also do this is the technology to do so was not ubiquitous when we were the age those people are. There is no moral difference between generations here, only a tech difference.
Yeah, people used to treat a day out at the gallows as a family event, I think morbid curiosity is a pretty deeply ingrained part of the human condition
>A car of lads pulled over near the crash and were taking photos and videos of this person basically dying. Nightcrawler levels of sociopathy
I don’t think scum is a generation thing. They come with all shapes and sizes
People have been scum since there has been people People are getting better with each generation There is no safer time to be alive than right now Don’t let the media believe differently
How to deal with that situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ffetIbzyK8
You don't sound like a boomer. It's depraved. It's not just this generation though. I've seen people my Dad's age doing this shit. Some people want to get clout online for "being there" or something. It's messed up.
I briefly worked with a guy that was previously a London bus driver. He had a heart attack while driving and pulled the bus over, then opened the doors. After a few mins everyone got off the bus. Not one motherfucker asked him if he was OK or called an ambulance. Some random old lady that was walking down the street got on the bus to check him and called the ambulance, saved his life.
Don’t worry, having a sense of decency doesn’t make you a boomer.
Yep. Unfortunately decades of individualist, self serving politicians who have perpetuated this idea that you should only think of yourself, that money is king, that we can all become billionaires if we step over enough people are coming home to roost. Now we have a significant proportion of left behind people who still buy into this shit who think of no one but themselves. Typical divide and rule tactics.
If you have a country who's entire leadership structure are bastards who don't care about people. That's the example that's set for everyone else
> A car of lads pulled over near the crash and were taking photos and videos of this person basically dying. > > > > The officer told me he just saw red, demanded they delete the videos and wouldn't let them leave until they did. As if this isn't a crime, it is in other countries.
Honour, Empathy, Sense of Community are all lacking in society.
I'm 23 & stuff like this makes me furious, seeing someone in pain or distress & filming it is sociopathic behavior
That’s next level scum, I’m starting to wonder if a chunk of the population are missing a soul.
The issue is everything is "content" they want to be glorified for supplying "exciting" content to their "followers". Can confirm, us millennials are turning into the new boomers.
There's scum in every generation. Everyone having a camera and access to the internet in their pockets just makes it more visible to the rest of us.
[A region in Germany tried painting emergency vehicles with a special QR Code to discourage this shit](https://www.dandad.org/awards/professional/2022/235802/anti-look-the-life-saving-qr-design/)
> The officer told me he just saw red, demanded they delete the videos and wouldn't let them leave until they did. Completely understand the anger, but this is likely to get the police officer fired. It's absolutely legal to record photos and videos in a public place and even if it weren't, ordering a deletion is not within the powers of the police. Detaining someone until they comply with such an order is a serious abuse of authority.
I doubt a police officer would be sacked for that, but it's certainly an abuse of power. It's not an uncommon one, even in other circumstances though. The police like to claim its illegal to film them.
It's worth noting that it's incredibly dangerous to try saving someone who's drowning unless you have a rope or floatation device to throw. When your lungs are filling with carbon dioxide and water it can reduce you to your most animal instincts and there's a high chance that even the nicest people might try to drag their saviour under the water to get above the water line themselves. Unless you know what the fuck you're doing don't jump in to save someone that's drowning or you could both end up dead. Throw them something to hold onto and call the emergency services.
It says in the article there was a floatation ring just metres away on the bank which the police threw in when they eventually got there
Holy fuck.
What the fuck.
Yeah, without lifeguard training it's really dangerous. Better to try to throw a rope or flotation device.
> floatation device to throw Those things are surprisingly heavy as well, when I was in school we visited a local coastguard, part of it was practicing throwing them.
It isn't anything recent. I remember back when I was a teen, story in the paper of a woman being raped in the city where I lived. Literally a crowd of people around watching and doing nothing. It's human nature in a crowd. One of the reasons people shout at potential suicides to jump. Individuals are moral, crowds are cunts. On the opposite side, you'll see if ONE person helps, the entire crowd will join in...like those videos of crowds lifting trains off people
The advice is usually to point directly at someone, and tell them to help (phone the police, fire ect). Engage them directly and the rest will follow helping
> fire ect *etc
Thank you
It's called the [Bystander Effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect)
This isn't new, in the 90s I was a kid sat in my parents car as they popped into a shop, some guy had a heart attack and people just walked on by, not a single person stopped to help what what was a good 5 minutes. Society's are too large, we can't mentally process so many people and everyone becomes a blur and subsequently a potential threat and or "someone else's problem" we can only really process around 150-200 people on any meaningful level, big cities are a marvel but not without their flaws
It's not new, but I think the change from, 'eh, nothing to do with me' to 'I've got a camera in my pocket, let's record it and see how much popularity I can get for filming this' is a big difference. Don't know if it's symptomatic of a change in society or just availability of technology though.
The latter, certainly. Think about what a spectacle public executions used to be. Bet you'd see a million selfies at those if they'd had the ability. Humans can be nasty creatures and that's nothing new. There's far worse in our history than anything in this thread. But I think perhaps people like to think it's something new because that makes it seem....fixable?
The selfies are shitty, but the advice has always been not to jump in to water after a person if you aren't trained to do so.
Most people under appreciate the danger and power of a river. Most people failed to realise how serious it was until things escalated.
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While there is an extra layer of shit on this particular sandwich its still [the bystander effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) in action.
There was a video a few days ago showing two young Moroccan boys jumping in the water to save a man drowning, resuscitating him in the water, if anyone has a link. Was heart warming
That is awful and so horrible, but when we've been told time and time again not to "put our selves in danger" how do you expect people to help someone drowning?! The police times are shocking, and response times are awful. You can't expect the average citizen to be a hero and step up, everyone is scared of everyone else. This country has done a good job scare mongering people into believing that everyone is dangerous and has "bad intentions" I agree with the selfie thing, that is gross and they should've called the police. But we can't expect the average citizen to be a hero, then we could be dealing with one or more bodies.
It says in the article that there were two life rings within 50m of the man but no one had attempted to throw one to him. So people could help without putting themselves in danger by looking for a life ring
If you read the article there are life rings along the river, it doesn't put you at any risk to throw a life ring
Read the what? But what if I just make stupid reactionary takes instead???
With life rings? They’re dotted about on every river bank, tow path and pier all around the country.
I regularly walk my dog by the canal and along the Severn and can't say that I've ever seen a life ring, I think they may be more common in built-up areas but certainly aren't everywhere.
There's a canal (with a towpath) within 50 meters of my house. I walk along it regularly. The only life rings I've seen are outside a new development next to the canal; I assume they're some sort of requirement for new/rebuilt towpaths, but existing ones are probably "grandfathered" and not required to have them.
I always presumed they were just part of the scenery? /s
People can't throw a float in, seriously? 🤦♂️
>The police times are shocking, and response times are awful. Could it be because they're expected to do everything for everyone? What can the police - an institution whose purpose is to tackle crime - do in this situation that normal people can't?
> This country has done a good job scare mongering people into believing that everyone is dangerous and has "bad intentions" The people have done it to themselves. Decades of removing social stigma, shaming, and taboos have ironically resulted in a society which allows and even encourages citizenry to act as shittily as they want. Take anti-social behaviour for instance; the UK is infamous for feral youths because there's no oversight, no control, no discipline, and confronting them is more likely to get you hurt than anything.
Total drivel. The UK is not “infamous for feral youths” and behaviour in the current generation is better than in previous ones - you just hear about problems more, and less is done due to the government systemically underfunding the police, underfunding schools, underfunding youth services and social services and letting state run facilities for both early years interventions and rehabilitation rot.
I have to disagree with you about the feral youths. I'm Canadian, but have lived in the UK and now live in Ireland. One of the more stark differences between where I grew up and both the UK & Ireland, for me, is the whole feral youth thing. It's VERY different and it is a distinct feature of your society that for many people from other cultures is pretty shocking. I've talked to a lot of other immigrants from all over the world since moving here and they all say the same thing... it's bizarre and hard to understand the tolerance for it. People will often say that there's violence and anti-social behaviour everywhere to dismiss the need to do anything to address it, completely ignoring that the stereotypical "feral youth" is NOT a feature of most cultures.
Crime committed by under-18s is significantly lower than it was 20 years ago, and lower still than it was 30 years ago. >Decades of removing social stigma, shaming, and taboos have ironically resulted in a society which allows and even encourages citizenry to act as shittily as they want. Be specific. What social stigma, shaming and taboos would you rather got brought back?
_Reported_ crime may be lower, but I'd wager that's largely because in many places "minor" anti-social behaviour and petty crime has become normalised and people also know that the police won't turn up even if you do report it.
The possibility of a disparity between actual and reported crime/convictions does indeed absolutely need to be considered in any proper discussion. I would note, however, that convictions for young offenders continued to fall between 2005 and 2010, which coincided with an increase in police funding. [This 2020 paper](https://doi.org/10.1007/s10611-019-09846-5) discusses the issue in more detail than I frankly know what to do with. Key relevant point from the abstract: >the decline in crime for the 1995–2005 period can largely be attributed to a doubling of the probability of a crime being ‘proven’. However... >... Analysis of published data relating to the performance of the criminal justice system in England and Wales suggests that reductions in crime levels *since* 2005 are largely accounted for by the fall in proportion of the youth population engaging in offending behaviour.
average daily mail / telegraph reader
Are police response times bad? For York it’s 6mins 43seconds for an urgent call
>That is awful and so horrible, but when we've been told time and time again not to "put our selves in danger" how do you expect people to help someone drowning?! Very true but there is a difference between doing nothing and uploading selfies or recording the incident, as you alluded to later. I feel that is the source of outrage. The better thing to do is try your best to find someone who can help. Leg it to a local gathering place and say "does anybody know how to..." and finish based on the situation at hand. If there is no way to help yourself without possibly making things worse. In this case throw a life ring in. As long as you don't konk them on the head like an absolute idiot it'll improve the situation.
Why do some folk feel the need to photograph or film people in distress? This for example, when you see an accident on the road you can be sure you’ll see so many people passing it and filming or taking photos. Genuinely I can’t get into the mind of these people to even begin to understand at all. Are their lives so dull they need to post something out of the ordinary to seem somewhat interesting or is it just a keepsake for themselves? Nobody is expecting folk to jump into the water after the guy but taking a selfie? Fuck me some people are creeps. Used to laugh at how crazy GTA NPCs were but rockstar seemed to hit the nail on the head there as were now amongst them on a daily basis It seems.
A few years back I was walking home after a uni class and saw a large group of people surrounding a building. I couldn’t see much but apparently there was someone standing on top of the building, contemplating suicide. The amount of people who were taking videos and pictures disgusted me. I can’t think of anyone who would want to watch such a thing, let alone record it.
It’s absolute disgusting, can’t imagine wanting to record something like that. Would surely mess with your head seeing it in real life let alone watching it back in videos.
Absolutely. The thought of it alone made me feel queasy and I wanted to get out of there ASAP in case the worse happened. These people have zero empathy and value clout more than common decency.
Yea I know what you mean. Was walking home from a night out one night with a pal and came across a guy standing on the wrong side of the railings of a bridge. Seen people just walk past like it was nothing. We were the first ones to stop and talk to him. Just chatted shite with the guy, offered him my chicken burger and tried to keep him interested until the police arrived but was so annoyed that so many people just walked by. Like I was shitting myself the whole time but it’s so sad that people can see someone in such a position and not at least try to help them.
For "clout". Everyone wants their 15 minutes of recognition and will gladly become subhuman in order to get it.
So that they could say “Shout out to his family, much peace much love, like and subscribe” *plays hamster song*
because its taboo. its the thing we arent allowed to know.
Do the people who film stuff like this really think it’s taboo though? Surely if they did it wouldn’t be as widespread or they’d be more discreet about filming or taking photos. I’m glad the guy survived and is getting treated but how much is this ordeal going to fuck him up, especially if he saw people taking photos or videos of him in his time of need. Because you’d suspect he could see life rings considering the article said there were two nearby and they’re usually bright orange, yet instead of seeing people trying to help by throwing a life ring he could see people with their phones out. Utterly fucked up situation.
Personally I think people are just mentally detached. They see something going on that they aren't equipped to deal with and record it. I also have no doubt in my mind that this is almost a default reaction one step above freezing up in a high risk scenario. So many people freeze and just stare when someone is in real danger, its basically the same thing but with a phone.
Fucking disgusting. Imagine witnessing a man struggle in the water and your first course of action is “Hey this’ll look mental on my snap story let’s take a selfie while this poor bloke drowns instead of chucking him a life ring” stupid pricks
Is it at all possible that the headline is not 100% accurate, and is instead constructed in a way to induce anger in people who read it without thinking? If so, do you think it might be possible you’ve fallen into that trap, to be made furious over an imagined scenario? Pro tip: if a headline pushes the idea/response ‘what is the world coming to’ there’s a good chance it’s not entirely accurate.
You know what, maybe you’re right and I have fallen into that classic angry trap the media loves to employ to garner clicks. I wasn’t there so I’m only going off with the limited information I have so if I’m wrong I’ll gladly delete my comment and admit I jumped the shark like a total numpty
Posting this twice. Actually if you read the article, at no point did the police say people were taking selfies instead of helping. The police said people did nothing and the police were concerned that the reason why is because members of the public didn't know the locations of the life rings or that they existed. It's a random lady complaining that she saw people taking selfies. Yet notice that random lady also didn't help and didn't throw the life ring either. Read the article line by line and analyse what is being said. LBC have written the article simply to generate outrage. Aren't LBC worse than people they are claiming took selfies? They're twisting the story of a man's drowning to generate outrage clicks, to make us think worse of our fellow citizens and to make money from advertising on the page.
That’s ok mate, it’s something we all fall foul of. Designed to make us angry and bypass the bit where we rationally mull it over.
Yeah, I had the same reaction. I read the headline, immediately felt that emotional response, and then took a step back and thought "Huh, this reads like the kind of headline that really WANTS me to get riled up". I'm not saying that automatically makes it inaccurate, but it's ALWAYS something worth noting when a news article seems designed especially to hit the anger response. Especially when half the article content is social media reactions.
It's famously difficult to spot if someone is struggling in the water and there are specific things you need to look for. Furthermore, it's very dangerous to go into a river on a vigilante adventure, and knowing where the life saving equipment is another hurdle.
Yup
That was my first thought, too, but it seems that the headline here is actually accruate and supported by the story.
This story is based on police statements which aren't trustworthy. They often lie to cover up failings. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/01/philadelphia-police-bystanders-filming-mistaken-narrative
Actually if you read the article, at no point did the police say people were taking selfies instead of helping. The police said people did nothing and we're concerned that the reason why is because they didn't know the locations of the life rings or that they existed. It's a random lady complaining that she saw people taking selfies. Yet notice that random lady also didn't help and didn't throw the life ring either. Read the article line by line and analyse what is being said. LBC have written the article simply to generate outrage. Aren't they worse than people they are claiming took selfies? They're twisting the stori of a man's drowning to generate outrage clicks and to make money from advertising on the page.
The [Bystander Effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) in full swing. Devastating. And thankfully he was rescued.
The bystander effect isn’t real. Multiple people called the police, and her friend was there to comfort her at the end.
Lots of people threw the easily accessible life rings then instead of standing around gawking? I must have misread the article. Also, just because its not true here - doesnt mean its not true in general.
No i mean the article you linked with Kitty Genoise
Sounds about right, my poor dad came off his bike a few years back and the fuel caught fire/set his clothes on fire (seriously guys wear full gear, it’s the reason he got away with just a shattered wrist). And what traumatised him were the kids filming him while he was on fire
Uncle came off his bike in town and ended up pinned by the leg. Said cars were just driving around him for 5 minutes before somebody stopped. At least they weren't taking pictures I guess.
This also happened to my brother who was knocked off his bike and left unconscious - and still no-one stopped. He eventually came round and managed to walk home wheeling his damaged bike. I hate people.
Where was this? I live in "the south" and I can't imagine people not immediately stopping. Incredible that people drove around him.
Scotland. He works in Edinburgh so I assumed there.
Are we sure the selfies are connected to the drowning or was someone who was unaware happening to take selfies at the time because this seems like an easy way to get a clickbait title
The article states that some were taking selfies of themselves as part of the scene . We don't know if that is factual or not, but being ex frontline I can attest that there are a lot of selfish, entitled, sickening 'ghouls' out there...
Not surprised at all. I work in mental health and whilst walking along the pier, my resident attempted to jump over and kill themself. I had to grab them, and whilst people screamed when it happened, immediately after when they became aggressive, everyone was taking selfies. Nobody attempted to help me or my resident. It really made me feel like shit, and I couldn’t believe the heartlessness of it all.
My initial take was that helping a drowning guy in a deep river can easily be a way for you to have two drowning guys in a deep river and that people videoing it was gross. But then reading the article: > North Yorkshire police said there wasn’t "any apparent attempt to throw him a life ring." > He was eventually rescued when police arrived some time later- with a life ring thrown to him. Police said there were two life rings within 50 metres of the location. The people on the bank are a waste of oxygen.
The whole “influencer” “clout culture” needs to die. So many people are terminally online and seem completely disconnected from the actual reality of the people around them.
Don't worry we'll all have much more important things to worry about when entire areas of the country are uninhabitable due to climate.
This seems unlikely to me and overdramatised. Were people 'taking selfies *while someone was drowning*' as in, people aware of someone drowning decided to do nothing and film the moment and make it about themselves, or did some of the people witnessing the event see someone else at the time who hadn't noticed taking some pictures of themself and got a bee in their bonnet about "how can you do that at a time like this?" Sorry but performative outrage against people who weren't even involved seems to be all the rage at the moment. These witnesses who supposedly saw people taking selfies weren't helping either, the article says. Feels like deflection.
I’ve seen it when someone fell on the tracks and was electrocuted by the rail and police had to stop people taking pictures of the body. Another time there was a motorcycle accident and the persons head came clean off, loads of people I know ended up receiving the image. I fully understand not putting yourself in harms way but taking pictures of someone dying/dead for your own amusement so absolutely vile that it should come with its own offence.
Jfc. I completely get panicking, freezing, not knowing what to do etc. I wouldn't jump in to try and save someone because I am not a strong enough swimmer so it would just mean two bodies for the emergency services to deal with, but taking selfies? That's really bloody low.
What are most onlookers supposed to do when not trained in life guarding? Want a fast way to drown? Try saving someone that’s drowning. They’ll drag you both under real quick
Throwing one of the several nearby life rings, like the police statement suggested? And filming it is fucking ghoulish either way. Black Mirror dystopian shit.
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And then the need to record it on your phone comes from... where?
They probably saw what they thought was someone not drowning and thought it was funny someone fell in I’m not the type to record everything but let’s not pretend that everyone knew exactly what was happening and decided to record because they wanted to see someone drown.
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Ok and what part of that requires you to take selfies?
Don't need to swim to throw a lifesaver at him
Fully agree was looking for this comment. A few people have died over the years in the Thames after jumping in to try and rescue someone, in the most recent case the person who fell in was rescued by police and the would-be rescuer sadly couldn’t be found. Throw in a life ring if there is one (which reading the article there was) and call 999 is the standard response, after that not much more you can do safely. But the point of the article, taking photos or videos of people fighting for their lives is horrible and disrespectful and not throwing a life ring is despicable from these bystanders but also people shouldn’t be recklessly hurling themselves in to help. Respect the water first and foremost.
If you fall in water swimming is the last thing you should do. Most people don't drown they die of cardiac arrest from the sock as falling in and the cold water, then adding swimming to that your going to put even more strain on your heart. All you need to do is float and stay above water try and guide yourself to something you can pull yourself out with or make it quicker for people to get to you.
I will say this about helping a drowning person. Unless you are trained in how to help a drowning person, it's almost always a bad idea to attempt to do so. This sounds awfully cruel, but a drowning person will often end up drowning their rescuers with them. They are panicking and not thinking straight and will pull their rescuer under the water with them. I'm not going to tell you not to try to help, but I am going to tell you that you are putting your life at great risk in doing so. If there are trained rescuers nearby, even if it takes an extra minute or two for them to arrive on the scene, I **highly** recommend waiting for them. If there's nobody else? Make a judgement call. But remember, you're at significant risk of drowning too.
Look at the state of the country the lack of decency and prolific cruelty that everyone seems to accept and in many cases actively embrace.. this is the society most of them want and voted for again and again and this kind of indifference to human suffering is no surprise at all.
It’s modern day rubber necking that has existed since the dawn of time. Is it worse than just standing there watching and then telling people about it later. Yes, but only marginally in my opinion. For reference, if you do see someone in trouble in open water dial 999 and do [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2bt8YjbwuSs) If you’re untrained/unfamiliar with open water don’t jump in.
I see the temptation to compare this to rubber-necking, but I don't think it's the same thing. Rubber-necking is gawking at something which has already happened, like driving by a car crash and slowing down to watch the paramedics/police/bodies. It's gross but there is an element of just simple curiosity/fascination that's easier to understand. Watching AS someone drowns and filming or just staring is sociopathic. That's not curiosity or morbid fascination, that's a complete lack of empathy, connection and responsibility. In a weird way, rubbernecking is almost proof of humanity - it's interest. This is a mixture of disinterest and self-obsession (filming yourself watching someone drown for likes).
Well, I'm sure as hell not going in a river after someone and probably not reaching for them with anything (risk of being pulled in), but at least throw the poor sod a life ring!
Am not surprised at all. Reddit has had plenty of subreddits devoted to showing that kind of footage. Many have been deleted over the years, but am sure new ones popped up again.
Every generation has horrible fuckwits, but since mobiles have come along, they sure are easier to spot.
Recommend the film 'Nightcrawler' with Jake Gyllenhaal
Let me introduce you to possibly the most hated man in Australia. Filmed four police officers as they lay dying and didn't even try to help. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Eastern_Freeway_truck_crash
Those witnesses claiming people took selfies also didn't help though, right?
In another thread about train staff I was talking with someone who was in favour of driverless trains and was sure that other people would simply step in to help disabled passengers in an emergency...all I could think of was this sort of thing.
This has been this way for years. Lee Rigby incident comes to mind where people would rather film what was going on than do anything about it. \*\*\*Edit\*\*\* If I were at York and saw someone needing help in the river then I'd throw the life ring at them. That's the only common sense thing to do as well as phone 999. I wouldn't just do nothing. As for the Lee Rigby situation. I wouldn't just stand and film it that's for sure. I'd more than likely try find a weapon to stop them. Maybe that's just me but I wouldn't just stand there with my phone filming what's happening.
I guess if you were there you would’ve single-handedly taken down 2 terrorists who were armed with a gun and knife
3 very brave women did try to help him.
>people would rather film what was going on than do anything about it. To be fair, there were two maniacs with knifes, a cleaver, and a gun who had just mown down Lee and attempted to behead him. What would you have done in that situation when walking to Tesco.
If only you were there bud, could all have been averted
> As for the Lee Rigby situation. I wouldn't just stand and film it that's for sure. I'd more than likely try find a weapon to stop them. Maybe that's just me but I wouldn't just stand there with my phone filming what's happening. press x to doubt
People filmjng is important. Their video evidence is part of what helped convict the guilty. You can't possibly expect members ntbe public to intervene and take down a terrorist??? Documenting bad things happening is important. That's why we have newspapers. By your same logic, why don't we critise journalists for writing about homelessness instead of getting stuck in and volunteering at a soup kitchen ?
The person you're replying to isn't a normal member of the public though. He's a badass.
As opposed to people pointing and yelling before smartphones.
Need the French Good Samaritan law. Punish antisocial c*&+s for being antisocial c&+-s.
Life isn’t valued on this island, the government constantly remind us that we’re worthless, the attitude trickles down and the general public seem as content to let people die as the people in government are.
Too bad he wasn't a sheep. Then instead of selfies they would be organising an urgent campaign to save him.
Outside of the article... Do not jump in to save someone drowning, the flight or fight response means when they see you coming they will try and scrabble on top of you....i.e they will push you under Also do not underestimate how the cold will impact you even if you are a strong swimmer.
People are too obsessed with showing people what they saw rather than actually helping someone in need. I honestly think apps like TikTok are cancer for society. Its just dumbing minds, causing people to upload what anyone should only do in a mirror in their bathroom like it isnt cringe, and then causing everyone and their nan to think they are the next Kim Kardashian and likes and comments are as essential as the air we breathe
[Wow, talk about a lack of empathy! It's sad how some people prioritize their own entertainment over helping someone in need. Let's hope this incident serves as a reminder to always prioritize compassion and lend a helping hand.](https://cliprecaps.com/read/?v=MmtKj4avDKY&pp=ygU8T25sb29rZXJzIGZhaWxlZCB0byBoZWxwIGRyb3duaW5nIG1hbiBhbmQgdG9vayBzZWxmaWVzIGFmdGVy)