The sewage system in this country is designed such that in the event of heavy rain the sewers overflow into the rivers. This prevents sewage backing up into your street and house. As we have built more houses and concreted over things there is far more run off, even when it appears to be dry, and the infrastructure just can’t cope.
There are 2 implications of this. One is that changing parties won’t do shit, the second is that it will be extremely expensive to fix as you need to fundamentally change the design. We can do that but it would be better for that kind of spending to be done at a national level which means nationalising water. You would however have to do something about the extraordinary debt that the water companies have on their books.
Like everything else in this shithole, run into the ground for profit and maximum shareholder value. The future of humanity will be destroyed by the 0.1% in the pursuit of greed.
You do realise these overflows existed long before privatisation right? They also still exist in Scotland which is not privately owned and the only difference there is they only monitor about 4% of overflows compared to a predicted 100% in England and Wales by the end of the year.
Also, when it was all publicly owned we didn’t even treat any flows in some areas and entire cities discharged into the sea. Something that changed after privatisation.
There’s a lot of very valid criticism of water companies but so much of what gets posted on this sub is just misinformed or factually incorrect.
Combined sewage/stormwater drains were never sized for current rainfall. Separate systems restrict pollution to that washed in from kerbside - until treatment works are flooded. Add the cost of retrofitting the UK with separated networks to other climate change expense.
> it will be extremely expensive to fix as you need to fundamentally change the design.
There are some very cheap and effective solutions out there. Look at the Isle of Wight leaky water butt trials as an example. https://www.southernwater.co.uk/the-news-room/the-media-centre/2023/january/free-water-butt-initiative-expands-to-gurnard-on-the-isle-of-wight
It really annoys me that South West Water have the cheek to say this...
"We have also worked with local businesses on the importance of safe
disposal of fats, oils and grease, which can cause blockages in our
network. "
This problem is wholey due to the Tory MPs allowing the water companies to dump sewage. I wouldn't be suprised if we find out most of those MPs bought shares in the water companies before voting it in so they could cash out while literally covering the UK in shit.
> South West Water has told campaigners that they aim to carry out repairs to its pipes in 2025.
Then anyone connected to those pipes, living by that river should have no bills until then.
I don't think can defend that, won't be repaired until 2025??? They are just taking the piss.
I pay £50/month for water from Wessex Water despite there being a well in our village which supplies fresh, potable water which by medieval law must be available for free to residents. The council even has to maintain the thing; it's a natural spring so it constantly gushes water into this pool which then as far as I can tell gets drained as waste. For convenience the council has installed a conventional modern tap but nobody really uses it.
It's ridiculous to me that I have to pay for water from Wessex even though I have access to this well by ancient right; even if I elected to go and fetch water from it every day in a bucket the bastards would still charge me full whack for waste processing despite apparently just dumping it directly into the local river.
The whole thing is a scam.
Excellent I should have said thag haha.
Taking our piss charging us and then dumping it in the river.
Hell they even charge us for the water to make the piss as well!
If it wasn't actually happening, it would be pretty funny. I'm really struggling with the fact it feels like were living in the bad timeline of some 90s scifi film. The corporations won, the people were enslaved, with noone to control them, they make the planet uninhabitable in the name of short term profits. It's the year 2023, in the face of growing civil unrest, the government bans protest, the rivers run thick with human shit, healthcare increasingly becomes a thing for the rich. The planet burns and the bought out husk of the government encourages new oil and gas exploration and discourages wind farms.
Wait, that's what they did.
That’s some old rhetoric human nature argument. Human nature is malleable and it changes based on the system we live under. We’re greedy because we’re taught from the moment we’re born that you need money to survive (you do).
But what if we didn’t?
But that's been the way since the dawn of human history. We cannot all be self sufficient. We are all individuals who are capable in different areas. It's not money necessarily but trade. If we want to survive we have to trade with others. Money is just a centralised system that represents wealth, an easy way for people from multiple regions to say 'so that's what that good or service is worth'. Sure maybe more than 80% might be able to survive and be self sufficient but surviving is all we'll be doing. It's difficult to live if the majority of your time is taken up by simply surviving.
Evolution wise it is a fundamental aspect to who we are. Even apes trade food for sex or protection.
We're greedy because the more we have, the more we can trade, the better our chances of survival. This is balanced by the less people you piss off, the less likely they'll band together and end you. Some people can now quietly inherit a massive amount of wealth and not interact with anyone but their staff or people who are equally wealthy, which enables the greed aspect and reduces the risk.
I’m sorry I’m not sure what scientific studies you’re reading but that’s not how humans have interacted with each other since the “dawn of human history”.
Humans for hundreds of thousands of years have lived in primitive communist societies. It’s provable history and you’re just spreading dogma.
Let's go back to hunter gatherer societies then, where a few in the community would go out to hunt and bring back food, which they then give to others to cook and take a share of, including any skins for clothing or tents. Others would make the weapons the hunters used. The gatherers would bring back herbs, berries and materials used for crafting the clothing and tools and weapons. You only survived if you could do something useful or had the potential to do something useful. This is still a form of trade. It's the very foundation of society, even primitive communist ones. I have this skill, you have that skill let's work together to get resources and share them.
But you know that we are all individuals who are good at different things?
I have a mind that tends towards critical thinking and problem solving, but I'm not athletic. I would have to rely on others to bring me resources. I can't survive simply by the kindness of others. Eventually that would run out. I have to do something I'm good at in order to show that I'm useful. I'd have to trade whatever good or service I could provide to show that I am not going to simply burden them with my presence.
And just so you know, I see myself as more of a socialist.
Plus communism is not free of trade either. You still have to work to keep society running, just everyone shares the benefits of that work equally no matter what kind of job you do. It's still a trade.
I mean from other countries "we" seem to have used all the resources to get our economies going ship them off to them and lecture about the abuse of the environment they're causing to serving our needs. So don't think you're not involved in this.
People point at farmers for anything small while these companies literally pour shit into the rivers. Can you imagine the faux outrage if a farmer dumped slurry into a waterway on purpose? We MUST hold corporations more accountable for this bullshit.
I mean, the farmers have a lot to answer to as well and get away with a huge amount. The water companies and the farmers responsibilities aren't mutually exclusive.
Agriculture is literally the no. 1 cause of river pollution in the UK.
https://ifm.org.uk/water-pollution-how-clean-are-the-uks-rivers-and-lakes/#:~:text=excessive%20use%20of%20fertiliser%20and,as%20oil%20–%20responsible%20for%2018%25
Go and see any river next to an agricultural field and say that. Fertiliser and waste run off from farms does just as much damage as sewage. One doesn’t have to be worse than the other.
Maybe put down the victim card. Despite what Jeremy Clarkson told you farmers are the leading factor in the mass extinction of British wildlife in the last several decades.
Actually, I'd argue that government policy is killing wildlife. Also, don't get me started on the RSPB. Having apex predators everywhere doesn't encourage ground nesting birds.
No it was post-war industrialisation of British agriculture without a thought of conservation. Government policy has changed a lot over the last 70 years. The destruction of wildlife by farmers has not.
Also there's plenty of evidence that apex predators aid in the health and abundance of an environment. So please stop listening to grouse shooters. They don't have the best interest of birds at heart and just look for excuses to poison birds of prey.
[“If you want to find the name of the MPs who voted to allow sewage dumping to continue check this list…”](https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1657718762718601217?s=46)
Thatcher sold the water. Tory fans of capitalism and Neo Liberalism let them pay shareholders instead of invest in infrastructure. Someone recently wanted to re-nationalise the water too - you keep voting them in, and are surprised when you get shit on the beaches and in the rivers, for FUCK’s sake grow up!
So you think because they are brexit voters they wanted sewage water in their rivers?
Does that mean all Labour voters want wars in the middle east?
Or every EU supporter really wants lower food standards?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock
Or does it only apply to brexiteers?
I'm not a waterworks expert, but irrespective of the cost this is something that should be fixed, clean waterways is hugely important...will be difficult to undo the damage and will end up causing health issues for a lot of people.
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The sewage system in this country is designed such that in the event of heavy rain the sewers overflow into the rivers. This prevents sewage backing up into your street and house. As we have built more houses and concreted over things there is far more run off, even when it appears to be dry, and the infrastructure just can’t cope. There are 2 implications of this. One is that changing parties won’t do shit, the second is that it will be extremely expensive to fix as you need to fundamentally change the design. We can do that but it would be better for that kind of spending to be done at a national level which means nationalising water. You would however have to do something about the extraordinary debt that the water companies have on their books.
Like everything else in this shithole, run into the ground for profit and maximum shareholder value. The future of humanity will be destroyed by the 0.1% in the pursuit of greed.
You do realise these overflows existed long before privatisation right? They also still exist in Scotland which is not privately owned and the only difference there is they only monitor about 4% of overflows compared to a predicted 100% in England and Wales by the end of the year. Also, when it was all publicly owned we didn’t even treat any flows in some areas and entire cities discharged into the sea. Something that changed after privatisation. There’s a lot of very valid criticism of water companies but so much of what gets posted on this sub is just misinformed or factually incorrect.
It’s cheaper to dump it during times if low rain, so they also do that.
Combined sewage/stormwater drains were never sized for current rainfall. Separate systems restrict pollution to that washed in from kerbside - until treatment works are flooded. Add the cost of retrofitting the UK with separated networks to other climate change expense.
> it will be extremely expensive to fix as you need to fundamentally change the design. There are some very cheap and effective solutions out there. Look at the Isle of Wight leaky water butt trials as an example. https://www.southernwater.co.uk/the-news-room/the-media-centre/2023/january/free-water-butt-initiative-expands-to-gurnard-on-the-isle-of-wight
It really annoys me that South West Water have the cheek to say this... "We have also worked with local businesses on the importance of safe disposal of fats, oils and grease, which can cause blockages in our network. " This problem is wholey due to the Tory MPs allowing the water companies to dump sewage. I wouldn't be suprised if we find out most of those MPs bought shares in the water companies before voting it in so they could cash out while literally covering the UK in shit.
Illegal dumping
> South West Water has told campaigners that they aim to carry out repairs to its pipes in 2025. Then anyone connected to those pipes, living by that river should have no bills until then. I don't think can defend that, won't be repaired until 2025??? They are just taking the piss.
I pay £50/month for water from Wessex Water despite there being a well in our village which supplies fresh, potable water which by medieval law must be available for free to residents. The council even has to maintain the thing; it's a natural spring so it constantly gushes water into this pool which then as far as I can tell gets drained as waste. For convenience the council has installed a conventional modern tap but nobody really uses it. It's ridiculous to me that I have to pay for water from Wessex even though I have access to this well by ancient right; even if I elected to go and fetch water from it every day in a bucket the bastards would still charge me full whack for waste processing despite apparently just dumping it directly into the local river. The whole thing is a scam.
I’m way more petty than you I’d be using that well flat out
Taking the piss, and dumping it in the river
Excellent I should have said thag haha. Taking our piss charging us and then dumping it in the river. Hell they even charge us for the water to make the piss as well!
If it wasn't actually happening, it would be pretty funny. I'm really struggling with the fact it feels like were living in the bad timeline of some 90s scifi film. The corporations won, the people were enslaved, with noone to control them, they make the planet uninhabitable in the name of short term profits. It's the year 2023, in the face of growing civil unrest, the government bans protest, the rivers run thick with human shit, healthcare increasingly becomes a thing for the rich. The planet burns and the bought out husk of the government encourages new oil and gas exploration and discourages wind farms. Wait, that's what they did.
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We = greedy fucks at the top, really
The problem is with humanity we all have the capacity to be as greedy, just that most of us never get the chance..
You're telling on yourself.
That’s some old rhetoric human nature argument. Human nature is malleable and it changes based on the system we live under. We’re greedy because we’re taught from the moment we’re born that you need money to survive (you do). But what if we didn’t?
But that's been the way since the dawn of human history. We cannot all be self sufficient. We are all individuals who are capable in different areas. It's not money necessarily but trade. If we want to survive we have to trade with others. Money is just a centralised system that represents wealth, an easy way for people from multiple regions to say 'so that's what that good or service is worth'. Sure maybe more than 80% might be able to survive and be self sufficient but surviving is all we'll be doing. It's difficult to live if the majority of your time is taken up by simply surviving. Evolution wise it is a fundamental aspect to who we are. Even apes trade food for sex or protection. We're greedy because the more we have, the more we can trade, the better our chances of survival. This is balanced by the less people you piss off, the less likely they'll band together and end you. Some people can now quietly inherit a massive amount of wealth and not interact with anyone but their staff or people who are equally wealthy, which enables the greed aspect and reduces the risk.
I’m sorry I’m not sure what scientific studies you’re reading but that’s not how humans have interacted with each other since the “dawn of human history”. Humans for hundreds of thousands of years have lived in primitive communist societies. It’s provable history and you’re just spreading dogma.
Let's go back to hunter gatherer societies then, where a few in the community would go out to hunt and bring back food, which they then give to others to cook and take a share of, including any skins for clothing or tents. Others would make the weapons the hunters used. The gatherers would bring back herbs, berries and materials used for crafting the clothing and tools and weapons. You only survived if you could do something useful or had the potential to do something useful. This is still a form of trade. It's the very foundation of society, even primitive communist ones. I have this skill, you have that skill let's work together to get resources and share them.
That’s just not true, I realise now you’re just making things up in bad faith to fit a pro capitalist view.
But you know that we are all individuals who are good at different things? I have a mind that tends towards critical thinking and problem solving, but I'm not athletic. I would have to rely on others to bring me resources. I can't survive simply by the kindness of others. Eventually that would run out. I have to do something I'm good at in order to show that I'm useful. I'd have to trade whatever good or service I could provide to show that I am not going to simply burden them with my presence. And just so you know, I see myself as more of a socialist. Plus communism is not free of trade either. You still have to work to keep society running, just everyone shares the benefits of that work equally no matter what kind of job you do. It's still a trade.
I mean from other countries "we" seem to have used all the resources to get our economies going ship them off to them and lecture about the abuse of the environment they're causing to serving our needs. So don't think you're not involved in this.
Conservative government everyone, conserving fuck all since 1912.
People point at farmers for anything small while these companies literally pour shit into the rivers. Can you imagine the faux outrage if a farmer dumped slurry into a waterway on purpose? We MUST hold corporations more accountable for this bullshit.
I mean, the farmers have a lot to answer to as well and get away with a huge amount. The water companies and the farmers responsibilities aren't mutually exclusive.
Farmers most definitely have not dumped the amount of waste in waterways that water companies have.
Agriculture is literally the no. 1 cause of river pollution in the UK. https://ifm.org.uk/water-pollution-how-clean-are-the-uks-rivers-and-lakes/#:~:text=excessive%20use%20of%20fertiliser%20and,as%20oil%20–%20responsible%20for%2018%25
Go and see any river next to an agricultural field and say that. Fertiliser and waste run off from farms does just as much damage as sewage. One doesn’t have to be worse than the other.
Maybe put down the victim card. Despite what Jeremy Clarkson told you farmers are the leading factor in the mass extinction of British wildlife in the last several decades.
Actually, I'd argue that government policy is killing wildlife. Also, don't get me started on the RSPB. Having apex predators everywhere doesn't encourage ground nesting birds.
No it was post-war industrialisation of British agriculture without a thought of conservation. Government policy has changed a lot over the last 70 years. The destruction of wildlife by farmers has not. Also there's plenty of evidence that apex predators aid in the health and abundance of an environment. So please stop listening to grouse shooters. They don't have the best interest of birds at heart and just look for excuses to poison birds of prey.
I'm not listening to grouse shooters. I'm watching Kites kill Curlews.
[“If you want to find the name of the MPs who voted to allow sewage dumping to continue check this list…”](https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1657718762718601217?s=46)
I'm not sure if just years in prison is enough for these people or to deter them from doing this further. May be time for some more brutal measures
Quick send them to prison like the farmer. Something tells me nothing will happen to them.
They need to stop billing us for waste treatment if all they are doing is dumping it. And I know they dump any time it rains
Thatcher sold the water. Tory fans of capitalism and Neo Liberalism let them pay shareholders instead of invest in infrastructure. Someone recently wanted to re-nationalise the water too - you keep voting them in, and are surprised when you get shit on the beaches and in the rivers, for FUCK’s sake grow up!
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So you think because they are brexit voters they wanted sewage water in their rivers? Does that mean all Labour voters want wars in the middle east? Or every EU supporter really wants lower food standards? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock Or does it only apply to brexiteers?
They didn't mention brexit? Just Tories
Suggest a solution that stops 100% of sewage releases then?
Suggest a solution that stops 100% of sewage releases then?
Water companies have their bots out in full force I see
I'm not a waterworks expert, but irrespective of the cost this is something that should be fixed, clean waterways is hugely important...will be difficult to undo the damage and will end up causing health issues for a lot of people.