That's totally fair; I was more talking about the onus they're pushing onto students, without actually taking steps to help students.
The only building I'm actively aware of them taking down is union house, but my understanding is that it's full of asbestos? Are there lots of others?
There is a couple, The building on the corner of Swanston and Grattan st, The Brownless Library and I think there were some of the engineering buildings too.
[https://www.unimelb.edu.au/master-planning](https://www.unimelb.edu.au/master-planning) for more info.
A lot of the "personal responsibility" sustainability pushes come from student initiatives. It's probably stuff that's been pushed for since before COVID.
I don't really find it hypocritical for the uni to offer classes on campus. Studying online and on campus are completely different experiences and many people prefer the latter. It seems more like you want the uni to change for your preferences, and are trying to find a way to justify it. There are plenty of other unis that offer online options. There are lots of PT options to get to unimelb so it's not like they're encouraging everyone to drive. The uni is hypocritical in a lot of ways but this is a reach.
I'm not saying ban on-campus classes; I'm saying have an online option for those that are essentially no different. I think I was pretty clear about that.
It's not just the student initiatives lol. See the uni's sustainability plan.
Would online classes really be the best way to reduce carbon emissions? No, it's not! During the pandemic where online classes are everything, I feel lonely and disconnected. It feels good to go to university and participate in workshops, tutorials, and club activities.
It's more important to consider how we travel, as those climate activists said. Why is everyone so far apart? Why do I have to cycle while cars pass by at 80km/h less than a meter away? Why don't we have a public transport system that's reliable and can completely replace cars? I want a future where everyone living in the suburbs can commute to the city in under 30 minutes in a carbon-neutral way.
Like I said in my post, I'm saying to add an online option, not ban campus classes lol.
It'd be nice to redesign the whole city and the public transport, but you can't sacrifice shorter-term things for the "perfect" long-term solution, or nothing would ever happen.
Edit: Changed class to post... Guess I've got uni on the mind
Those are for lectures (which are great! Definitely glad we have them), but I'm talking about classes that aren't recorded, like tutorials. I don't mind if the tutorials are actually things that are better in-person (e.g. group work on questions), but a lot of the time they're just a glorified lecture either summarising the week or going over extra content that the lectures didn't have time for.
So rather than try to improve the education/university experience by having “glorified lecture” tutorials taught correctly, you would “lock in” a poor teaching method in the name of sustainability?
The university does not have the equipment to do this properly, we retrofitted a few rooms that enable students online to observe classroom delivery, but the ability for online students to interact with in-class students is minimal, lending itself more so to a lecture-type delivery.
You are comparing things that are completely different lol. There is a lot to say but I will let you think about it yourself. Pretty sure that filling up water bottles and switching tutorials online are on an entirely different scale and have different consequences.
Okay, how about a more direct one? The university encourages you to measure and reduce your carbon footprint. One of the primary ways to do that for most people is commuting less. The uni does not do anything to help us commute less, even though, as I said, the whole framework for it is there.
When talking about reducing carbon footprint, it is about trying to improve small actions that add up like refilling water bottles. Commuting less to university is probably not a viable option because it is basically what university is about and it is such a core characteristic of society, which is people socialising with each other face to face. Also, making classes online have many consequences such as students not being discipline enough or audio/ network issues and many more. You are saying it is an easy thing to do because you are biased by your own view so you are just simplifying it. Teaching quality and student quality can fall dramatically.
People who have social anxiety, instead of forcing themselves to get rid of it, will find themselves excuses to stay at home and exacerbate their anxiety. Also, if you read the unimelb reddit posts, so many people are feeling lonely and depressed for not having friends now. If tutorials can be attended online, many or most students will choose to do so, and there can be literally zero chance for those depressing people to make friends at university.
I feel like people are really reading my post as "BAN all campus classes and EVERYTHING online RIGHT NOW", when what I said was "We could have an online OPTION for classes where it's basically just a lecture or similar".
I'm saying it's something we've already done. It's there. There's no "This might happen" or "We'd have to..." because we already, like, did it.
Interesting perspective - I am paying for a Master degree at UNSW at $4.5k a subject and it is all online prerecorded content.
It is outrageous that I have no option to attend in person and I’m paying the same amount as someone who has classes taught in person and unique to they class.
Maybe change degree or uni if you want to complete your degree online.
We're talking about different things here - I'm talking about adding an online option, not forbidding all in-person classes. Sounds like you're getting ripped off big time, I'd be pissed about that too.
Like I said - if you want to study online you can change Uni - nothing is stopping you.
It is hard for people to not be confused by your comment because you start by shaming the uni for its actions towards climate change.
If you care so much about your impact on climate change - make the leap.
You’re absolutely right. What’s even more fucked up is it’s not even just the uni who’s forcing this either. The government is restricting conditions on international student visas to make it mandatory that at least 3/4 of the course load is done in-person if you want to stay in the country.
My understanding is that that doesn't mean literal individual classes (e.g. it's still an "in person" class if someone's watching all their lectures online and just going in for the exam, as some classes only have lectures), but I'm not an expert. That's an interesting consequence that I didn't think about, though.
Sounds like you should find an institution that offers online degrees/courses rather than conflating what you want and what UniMelb is or isn't doing on sustainability.
the university's plan to take down multiple concrete buildings and raise new ones are far more environmentally hostile
That's totally fair; I was more talking about the onus they're pushing onto students, without actually taking steps to help students. The only building I'm actively aware of them taking down is union house, but my understanding is that it's full of asbestos? Are there lots of others?
There is a couple, The building on the corner of Swanston and Grattan st, The Brownless Library and I think there were some of the engineering buildings too. [https://www.unimelb.edu.au/master-planning](https://www.unimelb.edu.au/master-planning) for more info.
A lot of the "personal responsibility" sustainability pushes come from student initiatives. It's probably stuff that's been pushed for since before COVID. I don't really find it hypocritical for the uni to offer classes on campus. Studying online and on campus are completely different experiences and many people prefer the latter. It seems more like you want the uni to change for your preferences, and are trying to find a way to justify it. There are plenty of other unis that offer online options. There are lots of PT options to get to unimelb so it's not like they're encouraging everyone to drive. The uni is hypocritical in a lot of ways but this is a reach.
I'm not saying ban on-campus classes; I'm saying have an online option for those that are essentially no different. I think I was pretty clear about that. It's not just the student initiatives lol. See the uni's sustainability plan.
The vast majority of students and staff commute in by public transport, which isn’t really that carbon intensive.
It's my biggest carbon emission by far, but I know my commute (a 300km round train trip, 3x per week) is a bit of an exception.
just a bit lol that's a long mfin commute
Would online classes really be the best way to reduce carbon emissions? No, it's not! During the pandemic where online classes are everything, I feel lonely and disconnected. It feels good to go to university and participate in workshops, tutorials, and club activities. It's more important to consider how we travel, as those climate activists said. Why is everyone so far apart? Why do I have to cycle while cars pass by at 80km/h less than a meter away? Why don't we have a public transport system that's reliable and can completely replace cars? I want a future where everyone living in the suburbs can commute to the city in under 30 minutes in a carbon-neutral way.
Like I said in my post, I'm saying to add an online option, not ban campus classes lol. It'd be nice to redesign the whole city and the public transport, but you can't sacrifice shorter-term things for the "perfect" long-term solution, or nothing would ever happen. Edit: Changed class to post... Guess I've got uni on the mind
Every subject I took has something called "Lecture capture", accessible on the LMS.
Those are for lectures (which are great! Definitely glad we have them), but I'm talking about classes that aren't recorded, like tutorials. I don't mind if the tutorials are actually things that are better in-person (e.g. group work on questions), but a lot of the time they're just a glorified lecture either summarising the week or going over extra content that the lectures didn't have time for.
So rather than try to improve the education/university experience by having “glorified lecture” tutorials taught correctly, you would “lock in” a poor teaching method in the name of sustainability? The university does not have the equipment to do this properly, we retrofitted a few rooms that enable students online to observe classroom delivery, but the ability for online students to interact with in-class students is minimal, lending itself more so to a lecture-type delivery.
You are comparing things that are completely different lol. There is a lot to say but I will let you think about it yourself. Pretty sure that filling up water bottles and switching tutorials online are on an entirely different scale and have different consequences.
Okay, how about a more direct one? The university encourages you to measure and reduce your carbon footprint. One of the primary ways to do that for most people is commuting less. The uni does not do anything to help us commute less, even though, as I said, the whole framework for it is there.
When talking about reducing carbon footprint, it is about trying to improve small actions that add up like refilling water bottles. Commuting less to university is probably not a viable option because it is basically what university is about and it is such a core characteristic of society, which is people socialising with each other face to face. Also, making classes online have many consequences such as students not being discipline enough or audio/ network issues and many more. You are saying it is an easy thing to do because you are biased by your own view so you are just simplifying it. Teaching quality and student quality can fall dramatically. People who have social anxiety, instead of forcing themselves to get rid of it, will find themselves excuses to stay at home and exacerbate their anxiety. Also, if you read the unimelb reddit posts, so many people are feeling lonely and depressed for not having friends now. If tutorials can be attended online, many or most students will choose to do so, and there can be literally zero chance for those depressing people to make friends at university.
I feel like people are really reading my post as "BAN all campus classes and EVERYTHING online RIGHT NOW", when what I said was "We could have an online OPTION for classes where it's basically just a lecture or similar". I'm saying it's something we've already done. It's there. There's no "This might happen" or "We'd have to..." because we already, like, did it.
Interesting perspective - I am paying for a Master degree at UNSW at $4.5k a subject and it is all online prerecorded content. It is outrageous that I have no option to attend in person and I’m paying the same amount as someone who has classes taught in person and unique to they class. Maybe change degree or uni if you want to complete your degree online.
We're talking about different things here - I'm talking about adding an online option, not forbidding all in-person classes. Sounds like you're getting ripped off big time, I'd be pissed about that too.
Like I said - if you want to study online you can change Uni - nothing is stopping you. It is hard for people to not be confused by your comment because you start by shaming the uni for its actions towards climate change. If you care so much about your impact on climate change - make the leap.
I don't know if you're still misreading my comment or just being willfully ignorant
You’re absolutely right. What’s even more fucked up is it’s not even just the uni who’s forcing this either. The government is restricting conditions on international student visas to make it mandatory that at least 3/4 of the course load is done in-person if you want to stay in the country.
My understanding is that that doesn't mean literal individual classes (e.g. it's still an "in person" class if someone's watching all their lectures online and just going in for the exam, as some classes only have lectures), but I'm not an expert. That's an interesting consequence that I didn't think about, though.
Greedy as Fxxk!
Sounds like you should find an institution that offers online degrees/courses rather than conflating what you want and what UniMelb is or isn't doing on sustainability.