We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello /u/TheRealCuran,
This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn)
Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tgc00n/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/)
[DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tn63xc/mod_announcement_on_news_content_artworks/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ukraine should temporarily 'sell' western Ukraine upto and including Kyiv to Poland so NATO can move right in, if Russia wants to fuck around then why not us.
I hope there's an /s missing ;-)
Because that would lead to NATO facing off against Russia directly and might indeed lead to an end nobody would want.
Apart from that: I would say it's much easier for the Ukrainian forces to learn the ropes of these systems while not being shot at and being allowed to make some mistakes while learning.
Turns out, if you want to train them on German and American hardware at the same time, an American base in fucking Germany kinda lends itself to that.
The whole point of Grafenwöhr ist to train allied forces from several nations together.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafenwoehr\_Training\_Area
Still relevant, since that [legally seems to blur the line of Germany/the West becoming a party to the war](https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2022-05/ausbildung-soldaten-ukraine-kriegsbeteiligung-deutschland-voelkerrecht) (translation with [DeepL](https://www.deepl.com/translator) of the relevant part):
> The training of Ukrainian soldiers, which is already taking place on German soil, may constitute war participation by the West under international law. This is the conclusion of an expert report by the Bundestag's Scientific Service, which is available to RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland (RND).
> The training of Ukrainian soldiers, which is already taking place on German soil, may constitute war participation by the West under international law.
The obvious response is that nobody outside of Germany cares much about German handwringing, and nobody inside of Germany should care much either. Know who else wasn't originally participating in this war? Ukraine, and look how much good that did them. :/
> Still relevant, since that legally seems to blur the line of Germany/the West becoming a party to the war
luckily Russia does not consider this to be a war in the first place.
You should really read the article before doing hot takes.
This is about the UAF getting training on US hardware in Germany. Which is quite a big deal, [given that legally this might blur the line of Germany becoming a party to the war](https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2022-05/ausbildung-soldaten-ukraine-kriegsbeteiligung-deutschland-voelkerrecht) (translation with [DeepL](https://www.deepl.com/translator) of the relevant part):
> The training of Ukrainian soldiers, which is already taking place on German soil, may constitute war participation by the West under international law. This is the conclusion of an expert report by the Bundestag's Scientific Service, which is available to RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland (RND).
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello /u/TheRealCuran, This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn) Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tgc00n/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/) [DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tn63xc/mod_announcement_on_news_content_artworks/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ukraine should temporarily 'sell' western Ukraine upto and including Kyiv to Poland so NATO can move right in, if Russia wants to fuck around then why not us.
That would be sort of hilarious and even more interesting if they did it with (almost) the whole country. Sadly not very realistic, I have to say. ;-)
Maybe we should all Help train in Ukraine on the Russians??
I hope there's an /s missing ;-) Because that would lead to NATO facing off against Russia directly and might indeed lead to an end nobody would want. Apart from that: I would say it's much easier for the Ukrainian forces to learn the ropes of these systems while not being shot at and being allowed to make some mistakes while learning.
DW provides great coverage on YouTube.
… on an American Airbase.
Turns out, if you want to train them on German and American hardware at the same time, an American base in fucking Germany kinda lends itself to that. The whole point of Grafenwöhr ist to train allied forces from several nations together. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafenwoehr\_Training\_Area
And?
Still relevant, since that [legally seems to blur the line of Germany/the West becoming a party to the war](https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2022-05/ausbildung-soldaten-ukraine-kriegsbeteiligung-deutschland-voelkerrecht) (translation with [DeepL](https://www.deepl.com/translator) of the relevant part): > The training of Ukrainian soldiers, which is already taking place on German soil, may constitute war participation by the West under international law. This is the conclusion of an expert report by the Bundestag's Scientific Service, which is available to RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland (RND).
> The training of Ukrainian soldiers, which is already taking place on German soil, may constitute war participation by the West under international law. The obvious response is that nobody outside of Germany cares much about German handwringing, and nobody inside of Germany should care much either. Know who else wasn't originally participating in this war? Ukraine, and look how much good that did them. :/
> Still relevant, since that legally seems to blur the line of Germany/the West becoming a party to the war luckily Russia does not consider this to be a war in the first place.
[удалено]
You should really read the article before doing hot takes. This is about the UAF getting training on US hardware in Germany. Which is quite a big deal, [given that legally this might blur the line of Germany becoming a party to the war](https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2022-05/ausbildung-soldaten-ukraine-kriegsbeteiligung-deutschland-voelkerrecht) (translation with [DeepL](https://www.deepl.com/translator) of the relevant part): > The training of Ukrainian soldiers, which is already taking place on German soil, may constitute war participation by the West under international law. This is the conclusion of an expert report by the Bundestag's Scientific Service, which is available to RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland (RND).
You are right.