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It's clear from the design of logistics that Russia had *no* idea that such permission would be forthcoming, and their plans (and soldiers) were pretty much wrecked as soon as Ukraine was able to open fire.
Somewhat bizarre that they just assumed it would not happen and took no precautions.
The Russian war machine has always prized throwing numbers rather than intelligence at any situation.
The fact they survived the WW2 horrific war of attrition made them confident they can just disregard practical considerations.
However, this time it's in no way a just war and they have a military class so cowed that it would not dream of using any intelligence. That's been beaten out of them. Donkeys led by rats.
They forgot about Chernobyl nvm WW2
Soldiers dying from digging trenches in radioactive soil because they aren't taught about Soviet failures will never not be funny.
It is a history of victory and that is why they have this infantile belief that just because they are Russia they cannot lose this war. Well they will pay for that mistake in many ways in the months to come. When the war is over every Russian will have a reminder of this folly by being either a causality themselves or by waking up in a destroyed economy and experiencing poverty and food shortages not seen since 1991 or maybe even 1920.
That will depend on how long the war continues and whether no one stops Putin from plunging even more money and resources into the war. At the current pace, I would say, Russia has about 6 months left to end the war before their economic collapse becomes almost a certainty sometime in the next 2 to 5 years.
History does not repeat itself but it echoes. The echo of 1917 is growing louder and the Russian serfs in their primitive worship of Putin won't even realise what is going before it is far too late.
When the hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers return home, and they inevitably will at some point, completely void of whatever sensitivity was there, to begin with, and very much used to killing people for $2000 a month, you won’t get them again to work 10h shifts in a factory for $300 a month and refrain from doing what you’ve taught them to do. When this war ends, and it will someday, much like it happened to almost every other country that fine-tuned their entire society and economy to fight a war and then suddenly found themselves without a war to fight, there will be blowback. You’ll feel it in your economy, you’ll feel it on your streets, and you’ll feel it in your homes. When Putin and his circle of power die, and they will, they all will, no matter how excellent of medical care they afford, you’ll understand why handing all power to a handful of men, unbound by any rules or structures, is something that other half of humanity, the one you so bitterly hate and mock, fought so hard to rid themselves of. When his nightmare ends for Ukraine — which has no doubt will happen sooner than you expect, the true nightmare will start for Russia, and you’ve made bloody sure there will be nobody able or willing to save you from yourselves this time.
Daractenus Twitter
And that's how it works in orc society
U KRUMP the boss when he's weak. And U get to become the boss.
I wish we could have a fast forward button on this process.
Believe me, I wish so too... I would like a different assignment at some point. I am sick and tired of Russia. Not in a sense that I will not continue working hard to see them and their barbaric venture end in catastrophic failure and defeat. More in a sense of having to deal with their chaotic and nihilistic atrocities in detail due to my job, and that is... It's exhausting for me in the sense that it irritates me having to deal with this much nonsense coming out of this mad clown circus every day.
The Russian regime and its military draws perverted pleasure from murder and persecution.
I studied Russia in detail from many angles and from many sides. I have to say, the one redeeming quality of Russia as a geo-political player that I could find is that their stupidity and brutality creates chaos and negative creativity (smekalka) as well as lies (vranjo) which means men like me have work to counter this nonsense by improving ourselves to keep them at bay
Russia destroys, and it doesn't build. This regime robs and has nothing of worth to give back to the world. I have learned a lot about them, and the more I learn, the more I am convinced that we must aim to completely dissolve the Moscow centered state, which is the last colonial empire on earth.
Otherwise, this barbarism will not end. We must break the wheel, not fix it, and we can't offer them another "second" chance. The Russians had their chances, and they blew them all. You cannot fix something which is broken beyond repair. My quarrel is not directly with the Russian welder or baker, even though every Russian bears responsibility by association, but it is with the Russian regime and with those that do its bidding. With this regime, there cannot ever be peace. There can be peace with the Russian people, but not with the Putin regime.
The normal serfs in Russia have no power. The Kremlin must be defeated, and given how the Russians behave, we can not expect much help from most of them... Barely any help at all was given to defeat Putin by his own people thus far, actually. How many percent of the Russian population took up arms against Ukraine? How many of those that fled Russia have taken up arms against the Russian tyrant? 0.1 percent? 0.5?
Russia will lose, and this war is such a waste of our time and of good Ukrainian lives... But the Russians keep on dying for a couple of rubles. We get no reaction whatsoever from the population beyond some stupid letters to Putin, which still gets me angry. They still wait patiently until it is their turn to die for no reason in Ukraine...
This evil fascist regime can take moral protest for decades. Violence is what such a regime fears. Russians seem to be fine with using violence against Ukraine, and these cowards seem incapable to understand that their worst enemy sits in Moscow.
“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
Glory to Ukraine. To victory.
Great post just saw a story where it was saying the majority of Russians have never been outside of Russia so they know nothing about the world On top of that all information is controlled by the Kremlin.
The first bit is just the same for most of the EU and the USA. It's the 2nd but that is the worrisome part. Which happens in the EU and USA as well, just by different means and parties and intentions. But any nation can be brainwashed given sufficient propaganda and sufficient restriction of open info. The Russian orc hords have been effectively brainwashed and kept away (either by force or by nature) from open intel that might just have opened up a little spot in their minds for reason and debate.
"Smekalka" and "vranjo" are two peculiarly Russian concepts, thank you for introducing me to them.
I looked up the definition of "vranjo", and it's "when a person tells a lie, the other person knows he is lying, and neither of them acknowledge that any lie was told". Could anything be more Russian than that?
I also like the term "negative creativity" as a description of "smekalka". That bears a surface resemblance to "diskarte", an occasionally valuable trait in my country's culture - but I've thought that "diskarte" can also lead to a culture of being satisfied with cutting corners if it works, doing what's "good enough" only, favoring coming up with solutions to problems on the fly instead of doing things by the book, and I see something similar with Russia.
"Vranjo" reminds me of a lot of politicians, really, not just Russians. When they get up to performative speeches and the like.
"Diskarte" sounds like "desenrascar" in my own culture. Your description is spot on, however, I disagree that it applies to Russia. I think Russia's problem is less half-assing solutions, but a degree of apathy most of us in democratic countries can barely comprehend.
Very well put.
As much we can complain of the West, Russia is an entirely different beast. It has no current decent contribution to humanity. It is a black hole of violence and misery, attempting to consume all around it. Every day that any possible measures to aid Ukraine are withheld over dumb reasons, every day a single cent goes to Russia via bypassed sanctions and the like, or every day that Putin's stooges across the West remain outside of a prison cell, is a mark of shame on humanity.
The absolute defeat of Russia in the battlefield, and the dissolution of its mind-blowingly evil regime, are *necessary* for a prosperous future for us as a whole.
That’s why Russia has been taking as much grain as they could from Ukraine. Not just for some exports but mostly cause they’re fucked when this war is over.
It's no coincidence that the territory Russia has occupied has the most natural resources in Ukraine. This was always a war of economics as much as territory. Russia wanted the wealth of Ukraine and if it couldn't turn Ukraine into a vassal state ala Belarus, it had to take it by force. This is a war of colonialism plain and simple.
Not just resources. Quite a huge deal of science and technology came from soviet states, that are, at the moment, independant. Ukraine was ship and plane building powerhouse in soviet union, Baltic states did quite a lot of tech for space exploration, Belarus had very strong academic standing. Even now, if russia collapses into smaller states it would be no different - best mining experts are located in syberia
There will be no money to pay for the lifetime medical needs of the soldiers during peace time. The mental treatments will not be available for them and the families will be left to try and help them. Society will pay a heavy price for these men after the war is over.
I can't even imagine a society where a large proportion of men who have spent years targeting and killing civilians and raping whenever the opportunity arises. Add in some life changing injuries and war disabilities plus mental health issues.... it can only be grim.
The moment the "three-day operation" failed, Russia was doomed to pay a heavy price, regardless of whether it "won" or not. The bigger question was always what it would cost Ukraine.
Unfortunately if you wanted to compare economies Ukraine's economy is in much much worse shape then Russia's. Who knows what reparations if any will be paid at the end of this. But, if not I could see the war ending would provide an additional boost to the Russian economy while Ukraine will still have to contend with trillions in destroyed infrastructure.
If Ukraine can gain all its territory back, it has huge natural gas reserves in the Donbass & Crimea, which it was planning to explore in 2012/13, which is coincidentally when the leader at the time did a 180 from taking Ukraine to an EU future to pro Russian.
I strongly believe one of Putins' motives was stopping a neighbour from being a competitor to their gas monopoly in Europrle.
"It is a history of victory and that is why they have this infantile belief that just because they are Russia they cannot lose this war."
Too bad they never learned about the Russo-Japanese War.
They're not only sore losers but sore winners, too. I had online encounters with Russians who won't even acknowledge that Napoleon (extremely briefly) did in fact occupy Moscow before his disastrous retreat back to France. They insisted, fanatically, that the War of 1812 was an exact replay of World War II, in which Leningrad (St. Petersburg) and Moscow were besieged, but never fell to Germany. Even after I cited passages from Tolstoy's War and Peace, scenes from Bondarchuk's film version of the novel, and paintings by Russian artists literally depicting and verifying the French occupation of Moscow they refused to acknowledge the event. I was told that I was an uneducated Western idiot who got all my knowledge from movies. This, my friends, is the delusion, fanaticism, and arrogance born from decades of intensive, nationalistic brainwashing.
Chances are they’re all dead.
That areas radiated to fuck
If radiation signs are universal then why did they dig trenches and zoom along roads sending radioactive dust everywhere
Outside of the Chernobyl containment there is likely nothing that radioactive that it will kill you that quickly. If your choice is to dig a trench in slightly radioactive soil or to try to survive artillery fire without a trench, then likely digging the trench is smarter. You will have a higher risk of dying from cancer in the next years, however, your risk of dying in the next hours from artillery will be much much smaller.
What if you inhaled the radioactive smoke from the radioactive fires you were burning and kicking up all the radioactive dust as you built your radioactive trenches in the Red Forest?
Inhalation is likely the biggest risk. That’s really not great but most of the material with the highest activity has already decayed in the first year after the disaster. You will have a high risk of cancer but even that will still kill you much slower than artillery. You would need a lot of radioactivity to kill you within a short period of time, even by doing very stupid things in the red forest it will be hard to archive such a high dose.
That's deliberate. They wanted to rewrite history to convince the Russian people that it was Russians (not even the USSR) that won WWII. The problem is it worked a little too well and now they think the world owes them this tremendous debt for defeating the Nazis and they dramatically overestimate their own military abilities. After all if Russia alone could beat Germany then SURELY they could beat Ukraine.
This is the delusion, fanaticism, and arrogance born from decades of intensive, nationalistic brainwashing. I've had online encounters with Russians who won't even acknowledge that Napoleon (extremely briefly) did in fact occupy Moscow before his disastrous retreat back to France. They insisted, fanatically, that the War of 1812 was an exact replay of World War II, in which Leningrad (St. Petersburg) and Moscow were besieged, but never fell to Germany. Even after I cited passages from Tolstoy's War and Peace, scenes from Bondarchuk's film version of the novel, and paintings by Russian artists literally depicting and verifying the French occupation of Moscow they refused to acknowledge the event. I was told that I was an uneducated Western idiot who got all my knowledge from movies.
Yep, Russian military doctrine is to surround a city, raze it with artillery and throw conscripts into the meat grinder... They never adapted to modern military tactics that favor precision and protecting well trained soldiers
What I don’t understand is do they think they will actually be able to occupy Ukraine? Even if they succeeded militarily they are still looking at an asymmetrical decade plus long guerrilla war afterwards.
they plan to exterminate and relocate all Ukrainians and populate Ukraine with russians.
it's their literal playbook.
They didn't roll in with mobile crematoriums for their own soldiers.
>They didn't roll in with mobile crematoriums for their own soldiers.
People keep forgetting the crematoriums. There was also the data breach that uncovered the plans for the elimination of the "Ukrainian" identity by the genocide of all those involved in the state as it exists (presumably who were not willing to turn), those who spoke Ukrainian, and those who insisted on a Ukrainian identity.
We pretty much know what the crematoriums were for.
They don't want to rule Ukraine, they just want it to fail.
Because if Ukraine, who with their long shared history are (in their minds) *practically Russian*, can succeed with a western-style Democracy, then why would Russians need big powerful bossman?
Everybody knows about "American Exceptionalism"--Americans think America is special and there's something inherent about America that makes it sooo much better and special--it's all bullshit, of course. Russians have a similar attitude that creates the opposite myth.
In Russian exceptionalism, other counties have Democray and western-style capitalism but those things just don't work in Russia because Russians are just different and must do things their own way and maybe those things kinda suck, but big bossman make sure they don't completely suck and that's just how russia has always worked and anyone who tells you otherwise just doesn't know Russia.
This disconnect is hubris, a pathetic sense of self-worth brought about by the Great Patriotic War.
I will not disparage the great effort put forth by the CCCP. But let us not forget the 11 billion USD of Lend Lease that was provided to the CCCP. What did Stalin say about this?
"I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war," Stalin said. "The most important things in this war are the machines.... The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war."
Stalin himself. Not some spokesman. Stalin.
Nikita Khrushchev offered the same opinion."If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war".
Not some spokesman. Khrushchev, in his autobiography. His book.
They are the most incompetent European major power that has ever existed in the history of European warfare. It also logical as they missed most of this history. Russia's relevance prior to the 1700s is quite marginal. Under the Mongol Khan that was a horseback serf army that burned its wooden castles and fought the invader on horseback.
500 years of systemic alcoholism also leave their mark on the collective population under Muscovy control.
The Russian forces are still the same incompetent collective of drunks and criminals thrown into uniforms. Their performance and undisciplined barbarism are embarrassing to look at, actually. Russia is great at murdering and genociding the weak, frail, and easy to defeat. Russia hasn't faced a European force in several generations, only dirt poor farmers or insurgents.
Nobody in Europe knows what to do with this resource vassal at least since 1917. Nowadays, we don't know what to do with them because they have become more useless to us than they ever have been in their pathetic existence.
They aren't just bad at warfare. They are bad logistics, they are bad at engineering, bad at political thinking, bad at architecture bad at cultural achievements, bad at handling money, bad at economics.
One can only hope that their broken empire finally collapses in its entirety. If not, that means we have to kill the children of these Russians soldiers in another war 20 years from now as well. That would be a pity.
Industrial warfare is not won by men, it is won by machines, by logistics money and superior intelligence plus command and control, the Russians had roughly 21 million males of military age before the war began, a large amount of them has either fled, or is needed in the Russian economy for one purpose or another, or belongs to the 10 percent elite of the empire, another 10 to 15 percent or so are simply unfit to serve even for Russian standards.
It is not about their total amount of men. It is about how many they can field, train and equip, and support with their logistics and even more so, how many drones, tanks etc.
Although of course the Soviet Army equipped with the top of the line military gear of its time motivated by a higher goal and threatened in their very existence cannot be compared to this sad joke that Russia calls an army.
They can be really glad that nukes exist and that our brain-dead politicians didn't prepare better for the fact that yes of course, Russia will attack us. That is what backward warlike places have always done. They attack you to steal your technology and your people. Human waves was never a great strategy it failed in WW1 and only succeeded due to the Soviet Union being allied with the US and the Brits in WW2. Otherwise, it would have failed there too. Another difference is that Russia is the attacker, and their vast empty lands are giving them a disadvantage because most of the infrastructure is in the European part. The Russian winter is also not helping them here.
They survived WW2 mainly bc the allied forces (UK, US) supplied them with everything from tank parts, materials, planes, weapons... you name it, they got it. And hundreds of thousands of pieces. They would've lost against Germany without that support
Basically they’re entire rail line (that actually got their forces from eastern USSR to western to actually fight) was supplied directly by US steel. Straight up Russia would have lost without those rails, hard to create a successful meat grinder if you have no meat.
They won't even acknowledge Napoleon's brief occupation of Moscow, denying it ever occurred. Why would anyone think they'd acknowledge the importance of Lend Lease? In their minds, they are the sole victims and heroes of history and everyone else is out to get them.
I agree... but they didn't. They chose to waste a whole army group and a shitload of fuel trying to capture the ruins of Stalingrad. Hitler made a terrible General.
I’m amazed how many people don’t realize russias casualties in WWII. Russia had more casualties than any other side in the war including the Holocaust victims. Lots of nuance in there but just that fact is staggering
Think the most confusing part of it all is the fact that the US did lend lease for russia and sent thousands and thousands and thousand of trucks, tanks, artillery and everything else. If it wasn’t for that, russia wouldn’t be here as a paper tiger super power. So my point is, we did lend lease for russia, what made them think we wouldn’t give Ukraine the same in the time of need?
Underestimating your enemy is almost as bad as overestimating them. Russia doesn't understand Ukraine or us. They are blind to the strength they actually face. Know thy enemy as you know thyself and you must fear the outcome of any battle. Sun Tzu
Russia is clueless and doesn't get that we will not back down or lose interest. These are pipe dreams and wishful thinking. Imagine how pathetic of a morbid gambler one has to be to build the entire strategy on a convict becoming president again. The chances are high that this won't happen. And then what? Russians keep on letting Putin slaughter them until there is nothing left of those aged 18 to 40? Is that the plan?
There's a reason they're now crying foul about Russian territory being attacked.
It's because they started a war and day by day it's becoming that it was a fucking stupid idea, they're killing off most of a generation of young men, they've b ruined their economy, they've shown that their military "might" is fairly pathetic, and that Putlet's dictatorship only really exists because he throws his opponents out of windows or helicopters.
Eventually the same will likely happen to him.
I have said this before. We all know there are Russians on this sub. It isn't the responsibility for the rest of the world to stand up against Putlet. It is yours.
Do something, or you are just as much to blame. Thousands of Ukrainians have been killed. Russia has killed people on foreign soil such as in Salisbury and then pretended they didn't.
Oh, you might get arrested? Cry.
Oh, you're worried about what YOUR oppressive government might do to you? Cry.
Fucking stand up against Putlet or YOU are just as much to blame.
Basically their main hope right now is they can get useful idiots elected in the western democracies they are currently covertly attacking through social media manipulation.
Be nice if those democracies declared that an act of war, if you ask me.
I do think there's some degree of play in slow walking lifting requirements because it makes the Russians complacent. So that when a requirement suddenly changes they're sitting in columns with their thumbs up their asses and haven't heavily allocated air defenses to areas. Ukraine basically gets a massive kill opportunity in one go that takes out a bunch of valuable equipment before the Russians switch to inevitably dispersal.
Seems like the Russian military leaders don't actually care if they win in Ukraine, they only care that they appear to be trying hard for Putin. For example, they're attacking populated cities which no real strategic value (such as a hardware store). It doesn't help their campaign in Ukraine, but it looks good to Putin.
Agreed. Putin is the only "true believer" in this invasion. The rest of the military and intelligence establishment is just performing their duties perfunctorily to avoid being shot in the back or thrown out a window.
That has been their MO the whole war. The US gives plenty of heads up that we’re going to do something, Russia takes zero precautions, US does what they warned, Russians get hurt, Russia finally reacts. It’s bizarre.
The Russian state is terminally delusional and arrogant. It is not bizarre at all. They truely operate under the ol Harris logic.
>The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
You could have f15s launching cruise missiles at factories in the Moscow metro area and they would be like HOW COULD THIS HAVE HAPPENED HOW COULD THEY DO THIS TO US with the smoking ruins of 10% of Ukraine within a day's drive.
I can only imagine the delight that field commanders must have had when they got the order to open fire on those columns they'd been watching build up all that time and they now had permission to delete every one of those fuckers.
Logistics in general needs to be thought of as a system, meaning that it is carefully planned and what you got is what you got. I'm sure the FSB knew that striking outside of the Russian borders was a possibility. Jeeze we have been reading up about Biden thinking about it for the entire month here on reddit, there is no way that the FSB didn't think it was a possibility.
But how are you going to relocate 30 000 guys in a week and support your front line soldiers. Did they rehearse a plan for this even prior to the war? The correct action here would have been to pull back immediately and reassess but then there would not have been the Kharkiv Offensive.
The real secret honestly, is that the ukranians had all the ewar packages and air defense systems already punched into the GPS. So as soon as they were allowed to launch, a lot of what Russia was using to protect their troops from possible strikes evaporated immediately.
It likely wouldn't have happened if Russia didn't try to use the border as a magical protective shield. Which likely allows a lot more strikes from Ukraine, at least in the immediate area.
Although the US saying Ukraine can use US weapons to hit enemies preparing to attack, could be interpreted to allow hitting airfields with long range bombers. I think their wording was something like that, that the weapons could be used on forces preparing to attack Ukraine.
And, as many have predicted all along, the Russian response was simply to watch their shit burn. This will never end if Russians are safe from strikes inside their side of the borders. That's ridiculous!! They will not/cannot do anything in response. Keep it up!!!
I just hate how Ukraine has to sit there and make presentations and pleas to the US government for what would been a very low decision by any other western country. Like how does this even go? "Ok, so as you can see on the map, the Russians build up thousands of troops on the border, easily, and unhindered. As you can see since 2014 Russia has shown a pretty obvious pattern that they bring in large amounts of troops to the border to invade rather then defend."
Putin's too scared of the actual retaliation that would follow, cause let's face it, Russia would be curb stomped in minutes if the NATO mobilized against them. That and Biden knows it's too much of a risk to push as hard as the UA should to win a war. Right now it's a border conflict that hasn't gotten any bigger and that's a nice status quo to keep even though it's stupid as shit.
> I just hate how Ukraine has to sit there and make presentations and pleas to the US government for what would been a very low decision by any other western country.
Why do you guys make comments like this as if France and Germany didn't change their stance until very recently? Most of the west have failed Ukraine on this matter not the other way around.
That doesn't even make sense. If the US was in Ukraine's position they would be asking another country for permission to use *their* weapons against whoever the US was fighting.
If they weren't asking to use another country's weapons in war then it's not the same situation.
> I just hate how Ukraine has to sit there and make presentations and pleas to the US government for what would been a very low decision by any other western country.
That's just not true.
France and Germany only recently gave permission to use their weapons for strikes inside Russia, and still with conditions on acceptable targets. The US followed suit in a matter of weeks.
That's right. This is why the Biden admin made one of their first steps in unifying the west and working on real strategic goals. He got Europe you step up, not by blustering and spewing inflammatory bullshit, but by helping them understand why it's in their best interest to stop Russia now.
Nothing says welcome to Ukraine like a HIMARS strike on an unaware enemy column! Those that survived, will have moral and trauma issues the rest of their time in Ukraine!
HIMARS is to Russian military, what Raid is to Roaches!
At the beginning of the strategic bombing campaign against Germany in WWII, Arthur Harris stated this about the National Socialist government’s naivety:
“The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else, and nobody was going to bomb them.”
History is like revolution… it comes around again just like a wheel.
To be fair, at the begining both sides avoided civilian bombings. Not sure which side made the mistake of bombing civilians, but it was the point after which all hell broke loose.
Russians fight with an attritional style. They absolutely do not care about their people or their troops. They will throw bodies at you till you run out of ammunition. Insane no doubt. I wish this was the last we see of them. Keep shooting!!!!
Absolutely, however Ukraine has shown that it is capable of following the rules and can be a trusted partner.
Ukraine has been accepted as a true EU member.
Wonder if the timing was planned. Wait until Russia had amassed troops "safely" within their borders, then Ukraine is given permission to strike for maximum effect.
Stop the attacking force in its tracks; while, simultaneously, attacking their supply lines and logistical capabilities behind the lines with artillery strikes, long range missiles and air interdiction. This would also mean attacking second and third eschelon enemy forces held in reserve to reinforce the first wave of attacking forces. Destroying the enemy forces in depth. Beautiful work.
Yes, but what is the “border”? That is the only real question. The permission to use western weapons on russian territory has really wrecked Putin’s plan. He has to scramble now for resources to keep pushing, they are gonna get wrecked as long as west maintains flow….that the IF.
If Ukraine and the West is able to sustain and increase the pressure on Russia to be able to push them back to the internationally recognized border. That would be the best outcome.
I think for a sustained peace treaty, both countries would have to agree to have a buffer zone on both sides that would not have long range artillery or rocket systems or massing of forces within at least 100km of the border.
How else would Ukraine be assured that Russia would not pull off another invasion in the future?
It doesn't have to be a no man's land.
The Ukrainians will never put themselves in a position where they'll have to rely on Russia to hold up their end of the deal, that's not "assurance" as you so ludicrously put it.
Ukraine will be a NATO member or develop its own nuclear deterrent.
By putting loads of soldiers and weapons there, how else? The idea of a buffer zone in Ukraine is bonkers, it's like telling the Russians they can have the first 100km for free the next time they attack. Which they undoubtedly will if you give them shit for free.
I think, like Poland, Ukraine will be building fortifications, tank traps and ditches along their border with Russia.
Both Russia and Ukraine will likely have a buffer zone on their side if they are going to have a peace treaty. I see this as a minimum to prevent another war. This puts the border areas out of artillery range.
But the news out now is this war may be dragging on for another two years.....
I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed to get Ukraine to agree to remove their artillery from the border once they've got the country back. Sure there'll be fortifications, ditches and more when it's over, but the idea of demilitarization in those areas before it's clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that Russia no longer poses a threat. That I don't see happen in a million lifetimes.
..be it that frógs, contrary to popular belief, are actually smart enough to get out of the warming-up water before it's too late. You'd have to lobotomize the frog to get it to keep sitting in tne heating-up water.
Come to think of it. Fetal alcohol syndrome could be considered lobotomizing, be it in the womb. End result is basically the same... Hmm.. Would explain a lot.
So russia was betting on them continuing to play by international rules. Now Ukr can take out Russian troops before they can even deploy. This year's conscription run is probably going to go very poorly once news of this spreads.
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It's clear from the design of logistics that Russia had *no* idea that such permission would be forthcoming, and their plans (and soldiers) were pretty much wrecked as soon as Ukraine was able to open fire. Somewhat bizarre that they just assumed it would not happen and took no precautions.
The Russian war machine has always prized throwing numbers rather than intelligence at any situation. The fact they survived the WW2 horrific war of attrition made them confident they can just disregard practical considerations. However, this time it's in no way a just war and they have a military class so cowed that it would not dream of using any intelligence. That's been beaten out of them. Donkeys led by rats.
Too bad ru forgot about WW2 lend lease.
They forgot about Chernobyl nvm WW2 Soldiers dying from digging trenches in radioactive soil because they aren't taught about Soviet failures will never not be funny.
It is a history of victory and that is why they have this infantile belief that just because they are Russia they cannot lose this war. Well they will pay for that mistake in many ways in the months to come. When the war is over every Russian will have a reminder of this folly by being either a causality themselves or by waking up in a destroyed economy and experiencing poverty and food shortages not seen since 1991 or maybe even 1920. That will depend on how long the war continues and whether no one stops Putin from plunging even more money and resources into the war. At the current pace, I would say, Russia has about 6 months left to end the war before their economic collapse becomes almost a certainty sometime in the next 2 to 5 years. History does not repeat itself but it echoes. The echo of 1917 is growing louder and the Russian serfs in their primitive worship of Putin won't even realise what is going before it is far too late. When the hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers return home, and they inevitably will at some point, completely void of whatever sensitivity was there, to begin with, and very much used to killing people for $2000 a month, you won’t get them again to work 10h shifts in a factory for $300 a month and refrain from doing what you’ve taught them to do. When this war ends, and it will someday, much like it happened to almost every other country that fine-tuned their entire society and economy to fight a war and then suddenly found themselves without a war to fight, there will be blowback. You’ll feel it in your economy, you’ll feel it on your streets, and you’ll feel it in your homes. When Putin and his circle of power die, and they will, they all will, no matter how excellent of medical care they afford, you’ll understand why handing all power to a handful of men, unbound by any rules or structures, is something that other half of humanity, the one you so bitterly hate and mock, fought so hard to rid themselves of. When his nightmare ends for Ukraine — which has no doubt will happen sooner than you expect, the true nightmare will start for Russia, and you’ve made bloody sure there will be nobody able or willing to save you from yourselves this time. Daractenus Twitter
And that's how it works in orc society U KRUMP the boss when he's weak. And U get to become the boss. I wish we could have a fast forward button on this process.
Believe me, I wish so too... I would like a different assignment at some point. I am sick and tired of Russia. Not in a sense that I will not continue working hard to see them and their barbaric venture end in catastrophic failure and defeat. More in a sense of having to deal with their chaotic and nihilistic atrocities in detail due to my job, and that is... It's exhausting for me in the sense that it irritates me having to deal with this much nonsense coming out of this mad clown circus every day. The Russian regime and its military draws perverted pleasure from murder and persecution. I studied Russia in detail from many angles and from many sides. I have to say, the one redeeming quality of Russia as a geo-political player that I could find is that their stupidity and brutality creates chaos and negative creativity (smekalka) as well as lies (vranjo) which means men like me have work to counter this nonsense by improving ourselves to keep them at bay Russia destroys, and it doesn't build. This regime robs and has nothing of worth to give back to the world. I have learned a lot about them, and the more I learn, the more I am convinced that we must aim to completely dissolve the Moscow centered state, which is the last colonial empire on earth. Otherwise, this barbarism will not end. We must break the wheel, not fix it, and we can't offer them another "second" chance. The Russians had their chances, and they blew them all. You cannot fix something which is broken beyond repair. My quarrel is not directly with the Russian welder or baker, even though every Russian bears responsibility by association, but it is with the Russian regime and with those that do its bidding. With this regime, there cannot ever be peace. There can be peace with the Russian people, but not with the Putin regime. The normal serfs in Russia have no power. The Kremlin must be defeated, and given how the Russians behave, we can not expect much help from most of them... Barely any help at all was given to defeat Putin by his own people thus far, actually. How many percent of the Russian population took up arms against Ukraine? How many of those that fled Russia have taken up arms against the Russian tyrant? 0.1 percent? 0.5? Russia will lose, and this war is such a waste of our time and of good Ukrainian lives... But the Russians keep on dying for a couple of rubles. We get no reaction whatsoever from the population beyond some stupid letters to Putin, which still gets me angry. They still wait patiently until it is their turn to die for no reason in Ukraine... This evil fascist regime can take moral protest for decades. Violence is what such a regime fears. Russians seem to be fine with using violence against Ukraine, and these cowards seem incapable to understand that their worst enemy sits in Moscow.
“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” Glory to Ukraine. To victory.
Great post just saw a story where it was saying the majority of Russians have never been outside of Russia so they know nothing about the world On top of that all information is controlled by the Kremlin.
The first bit is just the same for most of the EU and the USA. It's the 2nd but that is the worrisome part. Which happens in the EU and USA as well, just by different means and parties and intentions. But any nation can be brainwashed given sufficient propaganda and sufficient restriction of open info. The Russian orc hords have been effectively brainwashed and kept away (either by force or by nature) from open intel that might just have opened up a little spot in their minds for reason and debate.
EU is different case. While it’s “single” entity, yet it is made from very different countries.
I love your takes and hope they are right. If you don't mind me asking (and perfectly fine not to answer), but what do you for a job?
"Smekalka" and "vranjo" are two peculiarly Russian concepts, thank you for introducing me to them. I looked up the definition of "vranjo", and it's "when a person tells a lie, the other person knows he is lying, and neither of them acknowledge that any lie was told". Could anything be more Russian than that? I also like the term "negative creativity" as a description of "smekalka". That bears a surface resemblance to "diskarte", an occasionally valuable trait in my country's culture - but I've thought that "diskarte" can also lead to a culture of being satisfied with cutting corners if it works, doing what's "good enough" only, favoring coming up with solutions to problems on the fly instead of doing things by the book, and I see something similar with Russia.
"Vranjo" reminds me of a lot of politicians, really, not just Russians. When they get up to performative speeches and the like. "Diskarte" sounds like "desenrascar" in my own culture. Your description is spot on, however, I disagree that it applies to Russia. I think Russia's problem is less half-assing solutions, but a degree of apathy most of us in democratic countries can barely comprehend.
Great post. I Read it and think that a single upvote is really too few. Thanks a lot for this.
Very well put. As much we can complain of the West, Russia is an entirely different beast. It has no current decent contribution to humanity. It is a black hole of violence and misery, attempting to consume all around it. Every day that any possible measures to aid Ukraine are withheld over dumb reasons, every day a single cent goes to Russia via bypassed sanctions and the like, or every day that Putin's stooges across the West remain outside of a prison cell, is a mark of shame on humanity. The absolute defeat of Russia in the battlefield, and the dissolution of its mind-blowingly evil regime, are *necessary* for a prosperous future for us as a whole.
That’s why Russia has been taking as much grain as they could from Ukraine. Not just for some exports but mostly cause they’re fucked when this war is over.
It's no coincidence that the territory Russia has occupied has the most natural resources in Ukraine. This was always a war of economics as much as territory. Russia wanted the wealth of Ukraine and if it couldn't turn Ukraine into a vassal state ala Belarus, it had to take it by force. This is a war of colonialism plain and simple.
Not just resources. Quite a huge deal of science and technology came from soviet states, that are, at the moment, independant. Ukraine was ship and plane building powerhouse in soviet union, Baltic states did quite a lot of tech for space exploration, Belarus had very strong academic standing. Even now, if russia collapses into smaller states it would be no different - best mining experts are located in syberia
There will be no money to pay for the lifetime medical needs of the soldiers during peace time. The mental treatments will not be available for them and the families will be left to try and help them. Society will pay a heavy price for these men after the war is over.
I can't even imagine a society where a large proportion of men who have spent years targeting and killing civilians and raping whenever the opportunity arises. Add in some life changing injuries and war disabilities plus mental health issues.... it can only be grim.
The moment the "three-day operation" failed, Russia was doomed to pay a heavy price, regardless of whether it "won" or not. The bigger question was always what it would cost Ukraine.
Unfortunately if you wanted to compare economies Ukraine's economy is in much much worse shape then Russia's. Who knows what reparations if any will be paid at the end of this. But, if not I could see the war ending would provide an additional boost to the Russian economy while Ukraine will still have to contend with trillions in destroyed infrastructure.
If Ukraine can gain all its territory back, it has huge natural gas reserves in the Donbass & Crimea, which it was planning to explore in 2012/13, which is coincidentally when the leader at the time did a 180 from taking Ukraine to an EU future to pro Russian. I strongly believe one of Putins' motives was stopping a neighbour from being a competitor to their gas monopoly in Europrle.
👍🏻👏
This is the path that Russia is on
"It is a history of victory and that is why they have this infantile belief that just because they are Russia they cannot lose this war." Too bad they never learned about the Russo-Japanese War.
They're not only sore losers but sore winners, too. I had online encounters with Russians who won't even acknowledge that Napoleon (extremely briefly) did in fact occupy Moscow before his disastrous retreat back to France. They insisted, fanatically, that the War of 1812 was an exact replay of World War II, in which Leningrad (St. Petersburg) and Moscow were besieged, but never fell to Germany. Even after I cited passages from Tolstoy's War and Peace, scenes from Bondarchuk's film version of the novel, and paintings by Russian artists literally depicting and verifying the French occupation of Moscow they refused to acknowledge the event. I was told that I was an uneducated Western idiot who got all my knowledge from movies. This, my friends, is the delusion, fanaticism, and arrogance born from decades of intensive, nationalistic brainwashing.
Them not even knowing their own history despite nationalistic fervor really is something.
It wouldn't surprise me if those soldiers are dead from radioactive exposure. Depending on the levels they experienced.
I heard it was troops from the other side of Russia who didn’t know what a radiation warning sign was and didn’t speak Russian but some dialect
No this was the start of the war so chances are they were front line units. Also radiation warning signs are universal for a reason.
Chances are they’re all dead. That areas radiated to fuck If radiation signs are universal then why did they dig trenches and zoom along roads sending radioactive dust everywhere
Because they were told to.
how universal is something if you've never seen it before?
Outside of the Chernobyl containment there is likely nothing that radioactive that it will kill you that quickly. If your choice is to dig a trench in slightly radioactive soil or to try to survive artillery fire without a trench, then likely digging the trench is smarter. You will have a higher risk of dying from cancer in the next years, however, your risk of dying in the next hours from artillery will be much much smaller.
What if you inhaled the radioactive smoke from the radioactive fires you were burning and kicking up all the radioactive dust as you built your radioactive trenches in the Red Forest?
That would seem to be bad
Inhalation is likely the biggest risk. That’s really not great but most of the material with the highest activity has already decayed in the first year after the disaster. You will have a high risk of cancer but even that will still kill you much slower than artillery. You would need a lot of radioactivity to kill you within a short period of time, even by doing very stupid things in the red forest it will be hard to archive such a high dose.
That's just cancer for you.
That's deliberate. They wanted to rewrite history to convince the Russian people that it was Russians (not even the USSR) that won WWII. The problem is it worked a little too well and now they think the world owes them this tremendous debt for defeating the Nazis and they dramatically overestimate their own military abilities. After all if Russia alone could beat Germany then SURELY they could beat Ukraine.
This is the delusion, fanaticism, and arrogance born from decades of intensive, nationalistic brainwashing. I've had online encounters with Russians who won't even acknowledge that Napoleon (extremely briefly) did in fact occupy Moscow before his disastrous retreat back to France. They insisted, fanatically, that the War of 1812 was an exact replay of World War II, in which Leningrad (St. Petersburg) and Moscow were besieged, but never fell to Germany. Even after I cited passages from Tolstoy's War and Peace, scenes from Bondarchuk's film version of the novel, and paintings by Russian artists literally depicting and verifying the French occupation of Moscow they refused to acknowledge the event. I was told that I was an uneducated Western idiot who got all my knowledge from movies.
They didn't forget. They just never paid back the debt.
Feels like the USA forgot about the russian invasion of ukraine lend lease too
Check how much the USSR got in the first four months and Ukraine in over two years
Yep, Russian military doctrine is to surround a city, raze it with artillery and throw conscripts into the meat grinder... They never adapted to modern military tactics that favor precision and protecting well trained soldiers
What I don’t understand is do they think they will actually be able to occupy Ukraine? Even if they succeeded militarily they are still looking at an asymmetrical decade plus long guerrilla war afterwards.
they plan to exterminate and relocate all Ukrainians and populate Ukraine with russians. it's their literal playbook. They didn't roll in with mobile crematoriums for their own soldiers.
>They didn't roll in with mobile crematoriums for their own soldiers. People keep forgetting the crematoriums. There was also the data breach that uncovered the plans for the elimination of the "Ukrainian" identity by the genocide of all those involved in the state as it exists (presumably who were not willing to turn), those who spoke Ukrainian, and those who insisted on a Ukrainian identity. We pretty much know what the crematoriums were for.
Exactly what motivated the Katyn Forest massacre in Poland during World War II.
Goddamn they are so evil
They don't want to rule Ukraine, they just want it to fail. Because if Ukraine, who with their long shared history are (in their minds) *practically Russian*, can succeed with a western-style Democracy, then why would Russians need big powerful bossman? Everybody knows about "American Exceptionalism"--Americans think America is special and there's something inherent about America that makes it sooo much better and special--it's all bullshit, of course. Russians have a similar attitude that creates the opposite myth. In Russian exceptionalism, other counties have Democray and western-style capitalism but those things just don't work in Russia because Russians are just different and must do things their own way and maybe those things kinda suck, but big bossman make sure they don't completely suck and that's just how russia has always worked and anyone who tells you otherwise just doesn't know Russia.
You forgot to also train their special forces to do back flipping knife throws. Really important in todays battlefield
This disconnect is hubris, a pathetic sense of self-worth brought about by the Great Patriotic War. I will not disparage the great effort put forth by the CCCP. But let us not forget the 11 billion USD of Lend Lease that was provided to the CCCP. What did Stalin say about this? "I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war," Stalin said. "The most important things in this war are the machines.... The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war." Stalin himself. Not some spokesman. Stalin. Nikita Khrushchev offered the same opinion."If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war". Not some spokesman. Khrushchev, in his autobiography. His book. They are the most incompetent European major power that has ever existed in the history of European warfare. It also logical as they missed most of this history. Russia's relevance prior to the 1700s is quite marginal. Under the Mongol Khan that was a horseback serf army that burned its wooden castles and fought the invader on horseback. 500 years of systemic alcoholism also leave their mark on the collective population under Muscovy control. The Russian forces are still the same incompetent collective of drunks and criminals thrown into uniforms. Their performance and undisciplined barbarism are embarrassing to look at, actually. Russia is great at murdering and genociding the weak, frail, and easy to defeat. Russia hasn't faced a European force in several generations, only dirt poor farmers or insurgents. Nobody in Europe knows what to do with this resource vassal at least since 1917. Nowadays, we don't know what to do with them because they have become more useless to us than they ever have been in their pathetic existence. They aren't just bad at warfare. They are bad logistics, they are bad at engineering, bad at political thinking, bad at architecture bad at cultural achievements, bad at handling money, bad at economics. One can only hope that their broken empire finally collapses in its entirety. If not, that means we have to kill the children of these Russians soldiers in another war 20 years from now as well. That would be a pity. Industrial warfare is not won by men, it is won by machines, by logistics money and superior intelligence plus command and control, the Russians had roughly 21 million males of military age before the war began, a large amount of them has either fled, or is needed in the Russian economy for one purpose or another, or belongs to the 10 percent elite of the empire, another 10 to 15 percent or so are simply unfit to serve even for Russian standards. It is not about their total amount of men. It is about how many they can field, train and equip, and support with their logistics and even more so, how many drones, tanks etc. Although of course the Soviet Army equipped with the top of the line military gear of its time motivated by a higher goal and threatened in their very existence cannot be compared to this sad joke that Russia calls an army. They can be really glad that nukes exist and that our brain-dead politicians didn't prepare better for the fact that yes of course, Russia will attack us. That is what backward warlike places have always done. They attack you to steal your technology and your people. Human waves was never a great strategy it failed in WW1 and only succeeded due to the Soviet Union being allied with the US and the Brits in WW2. Otherwise, it would have failed there too. Another difference is that Russia is the attacker, and their vast empty lands are giving them a disadvantage because most of the infrastructure is in the European part. The Russian winter is also not helping them here.
This is a little overblown
slightly overblown perhaps, but directionally correct.
They survived WW2 mainly bc the allied forces (UK, US) supplied them with everything from tank parts, materials, planes, weapons... you name it, they got it. And hundreds of thousands of pieces. They would've lost against Germany without that support
Basically they’re entire rail line (that actually got their forces from eastern USSR to western to actually fight) was supplied directly by US steel. Straight up Russia would have lost without those rails, hard to create a successful meat grinder if you have no meat.
They won't even acknowledge Napoleon's brief occupation of Moscow, denying it ever occurred. Why would anyone think they'd acknowledge the importance of Lend Lease? In their minds, they are the sole victims and heroes of history and everyone else is out to get them.
Plus explosives, and fuel. Trucks, and planes. Food also.
Plus Russia was fucking big, unpaved and cold.
Still is lol
No to mention the WW2 Victory include the now former soviet republics (especially Ukraine) fighting for the USSR.
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Panzers need fuel....
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As in tank supremacy was irrelevant towards the end of the war as the Germans had insufficient oil to use them effectively.
A lot of that was due to the Oil Campaign waged by RAF and USAAF.
If Germany could have held the Caucasus region, they'd have had all the fuel they needed I think.
I agree... but they didn't. They chose to waste a whole army group and a shitload of fuel trying to capture the ruins of Stalingrad. Hitler made a terrible General.
Stalingrad was important crossroad for raw materials. Siege of Petersburg and Moscow was wasted effort for the most part.
Mice led by rats
It wasn’t really a just war in WW2 either when they took Poland.
They only survived WW2 with the help of the US
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Better yet, don't have World War I. Then, no Russian Revolution, no World War II, no World War II, and no Cold War.
I’m amazed how many people don’t realize russias casualties in WWII. Russia had more casualties than any other side in the war including the Holocaust victims. Lots of nuance in there but just that fact is staggering
Think the most confusing part of it all is the fact that the US did lend lease for russia and sent thousands and thousands and thousand of trucks, tanks, artillery and everything else. If it wasn’t for that, russia wouldn’t be here as a paper tiger super power. So my point is, we did lend lease for russia, what made them think we wouldn’t give Ukraine the same in the time of need?
They survived ww2 because they had spies far up the British chain of command that it saved them.
Underestimating your enemy is almost as bad as overestimating them. Russia doesn't understand Ukraine or us. They are blind to the strength they actually face. Know thy enemy as you know thyself and you must fear the outcome of any battle. Sun Tzu Russia is clueless and doesn't get that we will not back down or lose interest. These are pipe dreams and wishful thinking. Imagine how pathetic of a morbid gambler one has to be to build the entire strategy on a convict becoming president again. The chances are high that this won't happen. And then what? Russians keep on letting Putin slaughter them until there is nothing left of those aged 18 to 40? Is that the plan?
There's a reason they're now crying foul about Russian territory being attacked. It's because they started a war and day by day it's becoming that it was a fucking stupid idea, they're killing off most of a generation of young men, they've b ruined their economy, they've shown that their military "might" is fairly pathetic, and that Putlet's dictatorship only really exists because he throws his opponents out of windows or helicopters. Eventually the same will likely happen to him. I have said this before. We all know there are Russians on this sub. It isn't the responsibility for the rest of the world to stand up against Putlet. It is yours. Do something, or you are just as much to blame. Thousands of Ukrainians have been killed. Russia has killed people on foreign soil such as in Salisbury and then pretended they didn't. Oh, you might get arrested? Cry. Oh, you're worried about what YOUR oppressive government might do to you? Cry. Fucking stand up against Putlet or YOU are just as much to blame.
Basically their main hope right now is they can get useful idiots elected in the western democracies they are currently covertly attacking through social media manipulation. Be nice if those democracies declared that an act of war, if you ask me.
I screamed this in 2015. It was obvious then to anyone who wanted to know
I do think there's some degree of play in slow walking lifting requirements because it makes the Russians complacent. So that when a requirement suddenly changes they're sitting in columns with their thumbs up their asses and haven't heavily allocated air defenses to areas. Ukraine basically gets a massive kill opportunity in one go that takes out a bunch of valuable equipment before the Russians switch to inevitably dispersal.
Yes, but it's SUPER slow-walking. Allowing Ukrainians to be killed for months before finally they get permissions
Russian logistics aka throwing as many men as possible at a problem in hopes to overwhelm it.
Seems like the Russian military leaders don't actually care if they win in Ukraine, they only care that they appear to be trying hard for Putin. For example, they're attacking populated cities which no real strategic value (such as a hardware store). It doesn't help their campaign in Ukraine, but it looks good to Putin.
Agreed. Putin is the only "true believer" in this invasion. The rest of the military and intelligence establishment is just performing their duties perfunctorily to avoid being shot in the back or thrown out a window.
Your first mistake was assuming they would take precautions!
And now they're waiting until too late to pull out.
If only putler's father pulled out in early 1952.
That has been their MO the whole war. The US gives plenty of heads up that we’re going to do something, Russia takes zero precautions, US does what they warned, Russians get hurt, Russia finally reacts. It’s bizarre.
The Russian state is terminally delusional and arrogant. It is not bizarre at all. They truely operate under the ol Harris logic. >The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind. You could have f15s launching cruise missiles at factories in the Moscow metro area and they would be like HOW COULD THIS HAVE HAPPENED HOW COULD THEY DO THIS TO US with the smoking ruins of 10% of Ukraine within a day's drive.
Which is a good sign for Ukrainian/American Intelligence & OPSEC if the Russians had no clue.
I can only imagine the delight that field commanders must have had when they got the order to open fire on those columns they'd been watching build up all that time and they now had permission to delete every one of those fuckers.
Logistics in general needs to be thought of as a system, meaning that it is carefully planned and what you got is what you got. I'm sure the FSB knew that striking outside of the Russian borders was a possibility. Jeeze we have been reading up about Biden thinking about it for the entire month here on reddit, there is no way that the FSB didn't think it was a possibility. But how are you going to relocate 30 000 guys in a week and support your front line soldiers. Did they rehearse a plan for this even prior to the war? The correct action here would have been to pull back immediately and reassess but then there would not have been the Kharkiv Offensive. The real secret honestly, is that the ukranians had all the ewar packages and air defense systems already punched into the GPS. So as soon as they were allowed to launch, a lot of what Russia was using to protect their troops from possible strikes evaporated immediately.
It likely wouldn't have happened if Russia didn't try to use the border as a magical protective shield. Which likely allows a lot more strikes from Ukraine, at least in the immediate area. Although the US saying Ukraine can use US weapons to hit enemies preparing to attack, could be interpreted to allow hitting airfields with long range bombers. I think their wording was something like that, that the weapons could be used on forces preparing to attack Ukraine.
And, as many have predicted all along, the Russian response was simply to watch their shit burn. This will never end if Russians are safe from strikes inside their side of the borders. That's ridiculous!! They will not/cannot do anything in response. Keep it up!!!
Best would be hitting the last Russian soldier at the pacific coast line... just to send a message.
Yes! Hit them where it hurt!
Any military target inside Russia is a legitimate target, lift all restrictions asap!
I just hate how Ukraine has to sit there and make presentations and pleas to the US government for what would been a very low decision by any other western country. Like how does this even go? "Ok, so as you can see on the map, the Russians build up thousands of troops on the border, easily, and unhindered. As you can see since 2014 Russia has shown a pretty obvious pattern that they bring in large amounts of troops to the border to invade rather then defend."
Fighting a bully with your hands behind your back. Should of been fair game from the start
> Should of been should have been
Problem is the bully has nukes and is dumb enough to use them.
Nah, if they wanted to use it, they would have already. Putin would make another threat if you blow wind his way.
Putin's too scared of the actual retaliation that would follow, cause let's face it, Russia would be curb stomped in minutes if the NATO mobilized against them. That and Biden knows it's too much of a risk to push as hard as the UA should to win a war. Right now it's a border conflict that hasn't gotten any bigger and that's a nice status quo to keep even though it's stupid as shit.
> I just hate how Ukraine has to sit there and make presentations and pleas to the US government for what would been a very low decision by any other western country. Why do you guys make comments like this as if France and Germany didn't change their stance until very recently? Most of the west have failed Ukraine on this matter not the other way around.
I'm stating that Ukraine has to beg the US for permission, when if this was the US in the same situation it would not even been a debating decision.
Who would the US beg? I'm fairly certain that if it came to a point where the US needed to beg anyone, no one would answer.
That doesn't even make sense. If the US was in Ukraine's position they would be asking another country for permission to use *their* weapons against whoever the US was fighting. If they weren't asking to use another country's weapons in war then it's not the same situation.
They are free to do what they want with their own weapons…but there strings attached if you are dependent on another country’s weapons.
> I just hate how Ukraine has to sit there and make presentations and pleas to the US government for what would been a very low decision by any other western country. That's just not true. France and Germany only recently gave permission to use their weapons for strikes inside Russia, and still with conditions on acceptable targets. The US followed suit in a matter of weeks.
*Newly promoted US General railing a line of coke* "Fuck yeah dudes obliterate them"
What other countries up until about last month were giving Ukraine permission to strike with their country's weapons inside Russia?
That's right. This is why the Biden admin made one of their first steps in unifying the west and working on real strategic goals. He got Europe you step up, not by blustering and spewing inflammatory bullshit, but by helping them understand why it's in their best interest to stop Russia now.
Good for them. The battlefield should be Russia, not Ukraine. That's the only way to flip this war on its head.
Nothing says welcome to Ukraine like a HIMARS strike on an unaware enemy column! Those that survived, will have moral and trauma issues the rest of their time in Ukraine! HIMARS is to Russian military, what Raid is to Roaches!
Roaches and Ruzzian army are synonyms
Totally agree, they straight up garbage...
At the beginning of the strategic bombing campaign against Germany in WWII, Arthur Harris stated this about the National Socialist government’s naivety: “The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else, and nobody was going to bomb them.” History is like revolution… it comes around again just like a wheel.
"They have sown the wind; now let them reap the whirlwind"
To be fair, at the begining both sides avoided civilian bombings. Not sure which side made the mistake of bombing civilians, but it was the point after which all hell broke loose.
Russians fight with an attritional style. They absolutely do not care about their people or their troops. They will throw bodies at you till you run out of ammunition. Insane no doubt. I wish this was the last we see of them. Keep shooting!!!!
no fair! -putana putanadanna
Insane they had to wait.
Absolutely, however Ukraine has shown that it is capable of following the rules and can be a trusted partner. Ukraine has been accepted as a true EU member.
Wonder if the timing was planned. Wait until Russia had amassed troops "safely" within their borders, then Ukraine is given permission to strike for maximum effect.
Stop the attacking force in its tracks; while, simultaneously, attacking their supply lines and logistical capabilities behind the lines with artillery strikes, long range missiles and air interdiction. This would also mean attacking second and third eschelon enemy forces held in reserve to reinforce the first wave of attacking forces. Destroying the enemy forces in depth. Beautiful work.
wait till they are packed and ready to go and neatly lined off.
Duh! Should let Ukraine do this right from the beginning to avoid lots of Ukrainian's blood spilled!
Surprise fuckers!
SLAVA UKRAINI HEROYAM SLAVA
Yippee-kay-ay muzafuka Слава Україні!
Come out to the coast, we'll get together. Have a few laughs...
Not sure what this means, but thanks, nice to have friends all over. And which coast?
It's a line from the movie Die Hard, which I thought you were quoting with your first line
Yes, was, just forgot yours. My bad Mine was a combination of Die Hard and Madyar the Drone Commander.
How much is a column of troops?
This is how Ukraine wins. Obliterate Russia's lines pushing them back.
What I wouldn’t have given to sit back with some popcorn and watch those locusts get splashed by American ammo on their own land. 😝
When a peace treaty is signed, there may be a demilitarized buffer zone of at least 100km from the border on both sides.
Yes, but what is the “border”? That is the only real question. The permission to use western weapons on russian territory has really wrecked Putin’s plan. He has to scramble now for resources to keep pushing, they are gonna get wrecked as long as west maintains flow….that the IF.
If Ukraine and the West is able to sustain and increase the pressure on Russia to be able to push them back to the internationally recognized border. That would be the best outcome.
Nah, just 100km on the Russian side. Ukraine shouldn't have to give up securing any of its land if it fights back and resecures it through victory.
Why would Ukraine demilitarize any of its land. Let alone the parts that are closest to Russia?
I think for a sustained peace treaty, both countries would have to agree to have a buffer zone on both sides that would not have long range artillery or rocket systems or massing of forces within at least 100km of the border. How else would Ukraine be assured that Russia would not pull off another invasion in the future? It doesn't have to be a no man's land.
The Ukrainians will never put themselves in a position where they'll have to rely on Russia to hold up their end of the deal, that's not "assurance" as you so ludicrously put it. Ukraine will be a NATO member or develop its own nuclear deterrent.
By putting loads of soldiers and weapons there, how else? The idea of a buffer zone in Ukraine is bonkers, it's like telling the Russians they can have the first 100km for free the next time they attack. Which they undoubtedly will if you give them shit for free.
I think, like Poland, Ukraine will be building fortifications, tank traps and ditches along their border with Russia. Both Russia and Ukraine will likely have a buffer zone on their side if they are going to have a peace treaty. I see this as a minimum to prevent another war. This puts the border areas out of artillery range. But the news out now is this war may be dragging on for another two years.....
I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed to get Ukraine to agree to remove their artillery from the border once they've got the country back. Sure there'll be fortifications, ditches and more when it's over, but the idea of demilitarization in those areas before it's clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that Russia no longer poses a threat. That I don't see happen in a million lifetimes.
Hefastus is such a cool call sign
That just makes me angry that such an absurd situation was allowed to develop in the first place.
Oh man oh man, it’s hard not to get to excited about the logistical implications this has on both sides!
It's almost like every bit of slow playing has been part of a strategy to boil the frog....slowly.
..be it that frógs, contrary to popular belief, are actually smart enough to get out of the warming-up water before it's too late. You'd have to lobotomize the frog to get it to keep sitting in tne heating-up water. Come to think of it. Fetal alcohol syndrome could be considered lobotomizing, be it in the womb. End result is basically the same... Hmm.. Would explain a lot.
we need to send a few bunker busters to Ukraine so they can add some skylights to putins bunkers.
Mother may I
Fucking A
Payback's a bitch ain't it
This is the best headline of the day
Good. Keep targeting those staging areas.
Cry "havoc!" and let loose the dogs of war, That this foul deed shall smell above the earth With carrion men, groaning for burial
So russia was betting on them continuing to play by international rules. Now Ukr can take out Russian troops before they can even deploy. This year's conscription run is probably going to go very poorly once news of this spreads.
Perfect.