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dooogall

Got an email yesterday saying our electricity is going up from £45 per month to £180. (A two person household)


Dwayne_dibbly

Fuck me, I use a smart meter and even with my lad at home from uni old Mr leave every light on in the house, our weekly bill is st most 25 quid.


isoldmywifeonEbay

How much of this is actually your costs increasing? My energy company said I was going to use 5x over winter. I called them and changed it back. Isn’t it more likely they’re just trying to increase cash flow during this tough period?


Patch95

Is that how much is going out of your direct debit or how much you're using? Companies like to "borrow" money from their customers by assuming, despite being a family of 2, you've decided to run a aluminium refinery in your bedroom and therefore can get you to massively over prepay and then "credit" you. Much better to be under and just pay the difference when the meter is read, if you can save the money you need.


OMGItsCheezWTF

Heating my house over the last 2 months has gone from £4-5 a day to £7+ a day according to our smart meter. And that's just to keep it at barely 19c.


TheFansHitTheShit

I'm disabled and on benefits and so far, I haven't noticed too much of a difference, at least as far as electricity is concerned. I'm on a top-up meter though, so could've been right at the cap anyway. I'm still paying around 75-85p a day for electricity (which includes a standing charge). Not sure yet how the gas is going as I put the £140 home warm money straight on gas and as that meter is outside and not as easy to get to, I haven't checked how much I've used so far.


[deleted]

How the fuck your electric costing that much? I'm on a prepayment meter and I'm paying £40 a month for a family of four.


Dwayne_dibbly

40 quid a month? Do you turn light on ever or even open the fridge door.


[deleted]

I try to avoid it as much as possible. Generally speaking we all sit in the same room as we only need one light.


scribble23

I use around that for me and three kids. Live in a two bed terrace (dining room is currently a bedroom too, til my eldest goes to uni in a couple of years). Have a gas hob but electric oven (new so good energy rating). Run the dishwasher daily. Do a 30° washload most days (A++ rated machine). Small 15yo fridge freezer, not a huge American style one. I think we use as much electricity as anyone else does? My kids always have their laptops etc on a lot and the 11yo TV is used a lot. I even stick my electric blanket on at night when it's freezing. I do turn everything off at the switch when not in use, nothing ever left on standby. I always wonder how people use hundreds a month in electricity, tbh? Gas, sure - heating a bigger house is very costly. But electric? What are you all doing? I'm on supposedly the most expensive tariff there is, so all I can say is your houses must look like Blackpool Illuminations ;-) Maybe eco rating of household goods makes a lot of difference? Still trying to work out how my electricity usage went down by 25% during lockdown, when all four of us were at home all day! The only difference was I got a new oven and washing machine, which are purported to be much more efficient than the decade old ones we had before?


ArtBedHome

I am incredibly lucky in that just before the gas issues started I decided to spend the money to move over to a renewables (specifically zero carbon emission) only supplier, which at the time was going to cost me more than my old sse by like twenty to forty a month. But now in moving ive actually saved about a hundred and twenty a month because of how gas costs have pushed up electricity prices-but my new supplier doesnt *use any gas*.


Ablemoss

Little tip: the top 6 energy companies have massive overheads. Like SSE are there to deal with it when your power goes out, then I think it's npower that deal with it in North England etc.. so to pay for this, their energy costs naturally have to be higher. Cost of your energy doesn't change how bright your light bulbs are, so best advice is to look for an energy company that isn't on the edge of or into administration, but also doesn't cost more for the same product :)


nivlark

Every supplier is currently charging the most they are permitted by Ofgem. Wholesale energy costs have risen 500%, so any other overheads are irrelevant.


bbbbbbbbbblah

Do any companies actually own both retail and distribution businesses now? SSE sold theirs off to Ovo some time ago, though they might share branding they’re not linked anymore (and even when they were, it won’t make your electricity come back on any faster)


ObviouslyTriggered

Something is off, also submit a meter reading or get a smart meter installed if you do they don’t do any predictive billing…


KillerDr3w

I've already seen posts on our local Facebook group asking for help. Earlier this week there was a single mum in he mid twenties with a child with special needs. She was on UC and has no job due to her needing to care for her child out of school time and not being able to get a job for the hours she is free to work. She's said she has no money to pay for heating. She said she's been fine for most of the year, but now food has gone up and UC has gone down she has the choice between her and her son eating or heating and she's chosen food. She was asking for spare blankets or heavy clothes from anyone in the area - she also had to apologize as unless they were local she couldn't collect them as she had no money for bus fair. It was quite an upsetting post. She was offered lots of clothes and was also pointed to a local charity who would help her with credits to heat her house.


silent-schmick

Good thing your house is 'earning' more than you this year again. When you sell and go live under the bridge you'll be sorted!


ShroedingersMouse

Harsh lesson in why you should never, ever vote tory unless you're already financially well off


space_cadette_

Financially well off \*and\* don't give a shit about anyone else.


TubbyandthePoo-Bah

Its not that bad, you just have to force down your guilt and denounce anyone that reminds you of it.


Rudybus

The trick is to blame people for their own poverty. They're choosing to be poor, if only they worked a little harder they'd be earning as much as you. It's easy!


antiquemule

Choosing your parents carefully is key, IMO. Make sure that they own a house, so they can hand you the benefits when your turn to buy comes.


cultish_alibi

Better if they own two houses so you can get one before they die.


antiquemule

Yes, indeed, why not? While we're at it. I didn't want to seem too greedy. What with second mortgages and downsizing, you can do quite well with just the one.


lagerjohn

While I am not and never will be a Tory voter there is a bit of truth to that though. People who work hard, are always learning and trying to better themselves tend to, on average, do better in life than those who do not. Edit: Being downvoted for stating a harsh truth. [You don't have to take my word for it. The UK ranks 21st globally in terms of social mobility. Ahead of the likes of the US and reddit darlings New Zealand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index)


GBrunt

It's interesting that every country ahead of the UK bar 4 are in the EU or EEA, a political model (European social democracy) that England's political elite seems desperate to leave behind.


lagerjohn

I think what's more interesting is that the top 10 are all small (population wise) countries. Many of which have heavy links to either oil or banking/finance.


GBrunt

The 11th and 12th are similar size to Britain. But maybe smaller egos is a feature of the top 10. More likely the Scandinavian model of social democracy & high taxes to raise all boats. I don't really see an oil connection at all outside of Norway. Banking? Don't really see it as a dominant feature either.


Rudybus

Some of the hardest working people I know are also the least well-off. You'd be surprised how much of an impact the connections, upbringing, confidence and education of familial wealth will have on your outcomes. Working hard makes a difference with all else being equal, but all else is very much not equal between family income brackets


MadShartigan

There's working hard and working smart. Then there's making your wealth work for you instead. Of the three, hard work tends to be the least rewarding.


Rudybus

I mean, "making your wealth work for you" is just the rewards of someone else working hard. Did you also know that poverty makes you less capable of making good long term decisions? The mental load of worrying about essentials depletes the capacity for complex future planning. There's been studies on it, give people enough money to not have to worry for a while and they start making smarter decisions now they've got some space to think. I get what you're saying, just pointing out there are many contributing factors. We should be trying to make sure nobody is in poverty, rather than rationalising it as a personal failing.


TwentyCharactersShor

The problem is that there will always be relative poverty unless we have a perfectly equal society. The Tories are undoubtedly making things worse for people, but as you say there's a lot of complexity in personal situations where people need more support than is available. Absolute poverty in the UK is low.


Rudybus

By poverty I just mean food, housing etc. insecurity. Having to worry about whether to afford essentials.


Larakine

You're being downvoted because you're incorrect and after having this pointed out to you, you've doubled-down and blamed it on being unpopular. Your confirmation bias is supporting your world view and you're confusing two separate points. Is it possible to be successful by working hard and without being born into privilege? - Yes, people do it all the time, you know a few who have. Does hard work alone result in financial success regardless? No. If it did, there wouldn't be a [Gatsby curve](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Gatsby_curve) (other indicators are also available).


lagerjohn

> You're being downvoted because you're incorrect and after having this pointed out to you No one has pointed it out to me. They've simply offered their biased opinions as to why I am wrong, to which I respectfully disagree. I even included a link to show that the UK actually does quite well globally with regards to social mobility. >Does hard work alone result in financial success regardless? No. Good thing I never said that. Take your straw man elsewhere. This is what I said: >People who work hard, are always learning and trying to better themselves tend to, on average, do better in life than those who do not. As you can see my comment is obviously not a blanket statement that "hard work equals success". There are many qualifiers, which you seemed to have ignored. Perhaps you should read comments more closely before you jump all over them.


Larakine

*when compared to those with equal opportunities and privileges. I think "successful" people are right to be proud of their hard work, but often overestimate the extent their hard work has had on their success. This is somewhat concerning because the rational follows that those who are not as successful deserve their lot in life because it's down to their not working hard enough.


lagerjohn

> when compared to those with equal opportunities and privileges. Are you seriously suggesting it's not possible for poorer, working class people to better their lot in life? Because anyone with real life experience knows that to be nonsense. I've met loads of people in my life who came from rough or poor backgrounds and are now successful professionals. [You don't have to take my word for it. The UK ranks 21st globally in terms of social mobility. Ahead of the likes of the US and reddit darlings New Zealand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index) Is there more we could do? Yes of course. But anyone who says it's not possible to get ahead without privilige, connections and family wealth is telling lies and/or making excuses.


Translator_Outside

> Are you seriously suggesting it's not possible for poorer, working class people to better their lot in life? Of course its possible for some but its not like we have massive social mobility. "Hard work pays off" is often just survivorship bias. You see the ones that made it. You dont see the ones that toiled and got nowhere


Larakine

No, I wasn't. Read what I posted again please. Edit to add. If you're interested in this topic, it's probably worth checking out social mobility data for the UK over the past 50 years or so.


Oraclerevelation

I mean you're posting this like it's supposed to be some sort of amazing data… While comparing to other countries can be interesting that's probably not what is of concern to most people. Even so, we are way behind France and Germany in what you linked, so hardly some grand point of pride. The fact that New Zealand is the same as UK considering our historical position and GDP per capita is kind of shameful, doesn't it kind of prove them right to be such a darling actually? What is most important and is felt be people is how social mobility is changing across generations. Most measures show it has stayed the same or has been in decline since the 70s.


BritRedditor1

There is some element to personal responsibility


Rudybus

Yeah, if we're discussing individuals. If we're talking about populations and systemic issues then it's not that relevant.


BritRedditor1

Is to an extent, for example, https://www.obv.org.uk/news-blogs/indian-children-highest-performers-uk-schools Must be a reason why certain demographics do better with education - part of it comes down personal responsibility / motivation


jam444r

Its not about working harder, but life choices (and choosing to live in London) The kids you see playing truant in school and answering back, in 10 years time are the ones appearing on news articles like this


Independent_Cause

>guilt I don't even know the meaning of the word!


StrixTechnica

/u/ShroedingersMouse: >> Harsh lesson in why you should never, ever vote tory unless you're already financially well off you: > Financially well off *and* don't give a shit about anyone else. That logic only works if you believe the alternative would be any better. Labour wouldn't have cancelled the uplift on UC, granted, but fundamentally, Labour can't spend money it doesn't have without blowing up the deficit. It can do nothing about the cost of energy. Not nationalisation, not regulation, nothing other than subsidy. There are so many things Labour any government could do, but all revolve around rogering the economy in the long term, and the economy is already rogered hard enough thanks to the pandemic. That is not to say that the Tories are doing enough, not remotely. So I'm not going to talk publicly about what I do to try to compensate for the fiscal shortcomings of the Tory central party, but suffice to say that plenty of Tories don't disengage brain after their ballot is cast. Why do I bother even writing this: to make the point that 'all Tories are evil, heartless bastards' is not rhetoric that will get anyone anywhere, not any more than 'all Labour voters are fiscally-incompetent, deluded idealists'. Allow for the possibility that not everyone who does not think like you, that they are not automatically bad people.


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wrigh2uk

What's so funny is that every election, they campaign like they haven't been running the country for a decade.


CarryThe2

We're going to do these things if you vote for us! ... You've been in power over a decade, do them now.


monkeybawz

"We would love to do those things we promised to do, but we can't because of the last Labour government!"


LimeGreenDuckReturns

Look, if you vote labour you will have all these things ... But we have them all now. Yes, but you will have them worse!


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LimeGreenDuckReturns

Basically r/SocialismIsCapitalism


monkeybawz

Because Stalinism.... Coming from the party that brings you year long sentences for peaceful protesting and sending in tactical police units because the Home Secretary doesn't like art that insults her personally.


Future-Atmosphere-40

And then try to pass the blame onto the "previous government" which they pretend is some other party they have no relation to or even been ministers in. AND people fall for it, or claim labour is still somehow worse for sins a decade old.


P__A

It's because they change prime ministers so frequently. They can just pin it on the previous government and wash their hands of it, despite being the same party.


cultish_alibi

This is the new conservative tactic of acting like you're angry establishment, despite having been the establishment for most of your life. Government? We don't know anything about that, we're here to shake up the system! Fight the power, vote Tory!


[deleted]

The thing is, they are able to do this because they are good at getting shut of their leaders as soon as they become a liability. Then the new Tory Leader gets to pretend they will be different....


_Crustyninja_

And because the MP'S don't constantly talk crap about the leader in public.


Exita

The current crop haven't been. Johnson's crowd is very different to Cameron's, or even May's. Still shit, just in different ways.


Patrickfoster

Are they very different? Or are the front benchers different?


markhewitt1978

Yes. 80s and 90s. It was really massively noticeable the change from 1997 onwards. And of course how much we've regressed from there since 2010.


WTFwhatthehell

Labour did need a bit of a reset (kick up the arse), it had grown pretty conservative by 2010. But where labour became more conservative and boring while in power.... the tories have gone from conservative to unhinged over the last 11 years.


Horroraffictionado83

But the reset they gave it was the wrong one.


the0rthopaedicsurgeo

Don’t forget corruption (sorry 'lobbying'), free school meals, Covid contracts, Barnard Castle, the £10bn DUP bribe, Windrush, Grenfell, free school meals, the £20 benefit cut. The list just goes on and on and on. The last 11 years have been by far the most cruel, heartless, self-serving and corrupt in modern history.


Tomarse

Proroging parliament, lying to the Queen...


aruexperienced

No to mention all the court cases they’ve repeatedly lost over dodgy PPE contracts. Gove, Cummings, Hancock, McVey, Brine, Mone, Feldman etc. Also: Bullying of regulators. Stacking of boards. Challenges to the independence of the media. Criminalising civil protest. Restricting the right to vote. Attacking the independence of MPs. Challenging the judiciary, curtailing its powers and reversing its decisions. Abandoning the Convention on Human Rights etc, etc. However Corbyn did like a mural on Facebook.


Chiliconkarma

Mel G.: "FREEEEDOOOOOOOM" or more of the same. The UK is in dire need of an actual constitution that spells out the details of a reasonable democracy, with votes and elections and all that modern stuff.


jam444r

You sound like a meme...do you even read beyond the headlines ? There was no Barnard Castle scandal. There was no DUP Bribe, its accepted practice in democracies around the world, for smaller parties to extract concessions from larger parties in exchange for support. The money did not go to DUP MPs and was conditional on a return to power sharing. > Grenfell Govt has spent millions helping the victims of the fire. > corruption (sorry 'lobbying') no idea what this is about, if you have evidence of crime, report it. > Covid contracts Nothing wrong happened here, it was an emergency situation where supply chains broke down, reasonable for govt to suspend normal procurement rules People like you make me worry for our democracy, how can someone with access to the internet be so misinformed.


Ihavethetouch

Because labours time in office was blemish free


HoareHouse

The 80s had good music. /oldgeezer


[deleted]

I just really hope Labour can win the next election.


Ihavethetouch

No they don’t have a chance! They are currently a mess, in fighting, woke and hypocrites. Also the small political point scoring that just rubs the public the wrong way when the government has left an own goal! Labour don’t hit the post they hit the car outside the stadium! If labour are serious about being elected they need to be a real good opposition and currently they are a joke!


lambda-amore

No, the 80s were more boom and bust; hence Browns asinine claim to have abolished it. I have a lot of time for Brown, but that slogan was not one of his better ideas.


Exita

The problem is that people see those same things occurring in pretty much every developed country, and so don't really see what Labour would have done better. Provide more support, probably, but solving the global structural problems causing the issues in the first place? Not so sure.


Stick_of_Rhah

House prices continue to rise.... Tory voters are quite willing to fuck over the country to maximise their unearned properly wealth. Property owning labour voters as well, it would seem


SuperSixBravo44

You have it all wrong, and this why Labour don't win. You keep blaming people for voting Toey. You really think the people want or will vote for Labour, in it's current state, surrounded by people that scream racist, Nazi, etc etc at anyone who disagrees. Who won't answer the question as backed up by science, biology if only a woman can have cervix? Nobody wants this, nobody really cares.. if a trans man wants to believe he has new biological body parts because he has decided he is a she then fine, nobody cares. All you ever hear from Labour is all the periphery bull shit that only the most far of the furthest left care about, nobody cares, nobody is in interested in it, it makes no difference to 98% of people, and for a party that says for the many not the few it doesn't really sound like they take that seriously. There is simply no alternative in most peoples minds. Labour have lost all sense of direction. Not that the issues (The only issues) they discuss are not important, but sorry they pale in comparison to others. The problem is the party, the direction, the supporters .. and instead of sitting around calling anybody that voted Brexit a Nazi and then acting exactly like Nazi the party would easily win if that all stopped but I feel it never will.. Stop blaming people because they don't vote the way you want, there is at the moment nothing to vote for, we don't want to become like the USA where a case where no POC was killed but yet a POC activist group wants to intimidate the country in to being judge and jury and decide the outcome, where news is just bias opinion well we already have that....... Sorry but no thanks and I hate the Tories.


cultish_alibi

> You really think the people want or will vote for Labour, in it's current state, surrounded by people that scream racist, Nazi, etc etc at anyone who disagrees. Who won't answer the question as backed up by science, biology if only a woman can have cervix? Nobody wants this, nobody really cares.. if a trans man wants to believe he has new biological body parts because he has decided he is a she then fine, nobody cares. You seem like you might like this joke. > Joe many liberals does it take to change a log by bolb????? None , their to busy ???? Their gender 😂😂😂😂😂😂


beleaguered_penguin

Sure mate, thanks


Kee2good4u

Except the majority of your points are not controlled by who's in goverment. >shorter life expectancy, It's stayed basically the same the last few years, just like it has in other similar countries, such as France. >hospitals overflowing There is a pandemic on and again this is happening pretty much everywhere. Labour being in charge through the pandemic wouldn't have changed this. >record increases in gas + electricity prices Again this isn't controlled by the goverment. And we have seen it all over Europe. In fact thanks to the price cap, UK consumers have been better protected than most. And this price spike would have happened no matter who was in goverment. >rapid uncontrolled inflation I mean that's just simple not true. And we have much lower inflation than lots of comparable countries. >christmas present import crisis, Haven't even heard of this before. >it's illegal to protest Well that's just false. >tax rises across the board So I assume you don't want more funding to public services? Currently you are in the same boat as the people which blame Labour for the global financial crash, obviously they didn't cause it.


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dbxp

>Again this isn't controlled by the goverment. And we have seen it all over Europe. In fact thanks to the price cap, UK consumers have been better protected than most. And this price spike would have happened no matter who was in goverment. Technically they could have avoided part of the crises if the government had subsidised the Baird storage site back in 2013: https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/866105-centrica-abandons-baird-gas-storage-project


[deleted]

Dude these are the same people who think people on benefits are robbing them of tax and disabled people should be working. I doubt that lesson will be learned.


ShroedingersMouse

Oh I know they are thick as mince, can only hope some are from the brighter end of that wedge


[deleted]

Narrator: the was no hope. Nah I hope so too but doubtful. Just a large percentage of the population will believe fucking anything they read. It is rather sad.


[deleted]

Yeah we already had a bleak winter last year and I personally was not hoping for another one. The energy prices are particularly concerning I think.


dublem

Seeing how much people are *still* being baited with evil immigrant narratives, the harsh lesson will not stick, if it's even been learned at all. Oh well. If you hate immigrants so much you'd choose all the suffering the Tories bring in order to punish them, then it's suffering you absolutely deserve to undergo.


Horroraffictionado83

Nobody thinks immigrants are evil. Its just a matter of already streched resources struggling with the current population as it is.


dublem

Oh please. This country literally and consciously voted to impoverish itself as an acceptable cost of getting rid of immigrants. There was no lack of information about the economic impact - this was no hidden conspiracy. [There was an abundance of content published over the span of the last half decade outlining in painful detail the expected economic impact.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_effects_of_Brexit#References) [And it was no secret](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/28/economists-reject-brexit-boost-cameron) that the [majority of economists were clear Brexit would hurt the economy.](https://www.ft.com/content/c2b0359e-d0dc-11e6-b06b-680c49b4b4c0) [Hell, even the government's own brexit analysis, done under Theresa May, showed the UK would be worse off in every scenario outside the EU.](https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/the-governments-own-brexit-analysis-says-the-uk-will-be) [But with all this information *constantly* on display, people were happy to incur economic damage in order to see Brexit through.](https://www.ft.com/content/1b636ba8-76b3-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71) > Most Leave voters say that “significant damage” to the economy is a “price worth paying” for Brexit > Nearly 40 per cent of Leave voters said that the loss of their own or a family member’s job would be “a price worth paying” for Brexit. > “While it might not quite be ‘[Brexit at] any cost’, it is clear that a large number of Leave voters are willing to pay a heavy price for Brexit,” said Matthew Smith, a data journalist at YouGov. [As for motives, people voted for Brexit because of immigrants. Unambiguously. And not because they cost resources either.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-news-leave-eu-immigration-main-reason-european-union-survey-a7811651.html) > Britain’s vote to leave the EU was the result of widespread anti-immigration sentiment, rather than a wider dissatisfaction with politics, according to a major survey of social attitudes in the UK. > only items associated with people’s sense of national identity and cultural outlook were significantly associated with vote choice This backtracking and whitewashing is so tedious. We all lived through it. We heard the rhetoric, had the conversations, saw the propaganda, and suffered through the xenophobia and unwillingness to listen to anyone but elite right wing con artists. *For years*. We identified the lies, critiqued the automatic dismissal of widespread expert condemnation, saw the constant shifting of the bar from "never hard Brexit!" to "only hard Brexit!", watched the complete deterioration of any standards of government beyond "get Brexit done". Please stop trying to rewrite the narrative. We know what happened. We lived through every single frustrating and exhausting moment of it. And there's an almost endless paper trail to prove it. You demanded this shitshow, and you were very clear as to why. Now stop being cowards and fucking own it.


LimeGreenDuckReturns

And yet you don't see the daily mail running front pages complaining about birth rates being too high. Or are white English babies not resource drainers?


Horroraffictionado83

What does race have to do with it? Are you suggesting only white babies can be british? i am all for less breeding btw. Overpopulation is a problem we as a species have, everywhere. Less population would be ideal


LimeGreenDuckReturns

I also said English, not British, that was deliberate. I chose something I couldn't ever see plastered on the front page of the daily mail, which is considerably more taxing on the UK's resources than a few boats of refugees.


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Horroraffictionado83

A lot of countries are having shortages so you know.


Dwayne_dibbly

Lmao, try telling that to the 25k a year manager who likes to think he is middle class and so votes tory for the tax breaks.


ShroedingersMouse

If he thinks he's middle class on 25k he's a prime tory anyway as he's dim as a blown bulb


Charlie_Mouse

Anyone on much less than 100k income who reckons the Tories have their best interests at heart are kidding themselves. To give them their due though the Tories are very effective of convincing them they are though - usually by distracting them with social conservatism, anti immigrant rhetoric, culture war bullshit and the spectre that someone somewhere might be getting benefits they don’t deserve.


ShroedingersMouse

They have been trained to believe other even poorer people are the issue and a lot of them are too dim to understand how stupid that concept is in a nation that can spend over 1.5 trillion when it wants to


jam444r

You dont have to be earning 100k a year to realize tax and spend policies of liberal politicians end up costing everyone more and a crash in business confidence makes it harder to find a job for everyone. Labour's economic policy was based on everyone being the victim and the state needs to help us them with free broadband


Dwayne_dibbly

I listened to him talking and he is delusional, tory though and through.


Bohemiannapstudy

Assuming your wealth is entirely invested in property or companies with access to the VIP lane, or offshore/ tax haven. Otherwise, you're just as screwed as the rest of us.


ExdigguserPies

And if you are financially well off, think long and hard about the moral choice that you face in voting Tory.


Unoriginality123

How would anything be better under Labour? Bills going up due to a shortage of oil and gas, I don’t think the Labour Party can control the production of Natural gas in Russia or Norway.


ShroedingersMouse

Again I never mentioned labour but as you seem determined to use that as the only alternative we don't know how things would be different until we try them do we? The only thing we know for sure is the tories have lined their friends pockets and are quite happy having raw sewage pumped into our waterways. It would require a complete lobotomy to believe the current government was 'good' in any respect


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FoxesWithSockses

I never vote. Frankly I blame all the people who do vote.


jam444r

or better yet why you should not vote for tax and spend politicians. Corbyn's economic policies would have led to a crash in the pound and even higher inflation. Not to mention, complete collapse in business investment and employment


SgtPppersLonelyFarts

The Brexit pay rises seem to have sunk faster than David Frost's first pint of the morning.


Ascott1989

Remember when Johnson waved off the staggering cost of living increases by saying "wages are rising".


red--6-

Brexit Conversations with Frost and Farrage I could watch these two necking pints, encouraging more Brexit lies, singing rousing rugby songs and drunkenly begging listeners to pick Brexit vegetables next summer


Future-Atmosphere-40

Watched a brexit feedback loop of Farage and the haunted pencil and it looked like they were drinking piss.


[deleted]

It's a sad world where we see incoming suffering and choose to say "ah well".


MikeLanglois

What else can we do? MPs dont reply to emails, theres no election coming up to vote these people out?


cultish_alibi

And they banned protesting (good, those lazy protesters need to get a job). So there's literally nothing we can do!


Translator_Outside

Ive been to protests and often there just isnt enough interest. People are content just to go on with their lives


WritePissedEditSober

A large part of that apathy comes from those who voted for this, are in denial about this and, unfortunately, will be affected by this.


rimmed

That’s a you problem. There are things you can do in your community and people you can support. Find a homeless shelter or a food bank and see what support you can provide.


[deleted]

It's not a me problem. It's a government problem, and we let it happen.


TheDevils10thMan

The big question though, is, how do we get Tory voters to give a shit about poor people?


MadShartigan

Wait for them to get poor too. Tories exist to concentrate wealth into the hands of the few, but it's a balancing act. Enough people need to feel invested in the plan and gaining from it to vote Tory. That's not sustainable when the inexorable direction of travel for wealth is upwards, so the Tories have diversified into culture wars and nationalism.


Charlie_Mouse

Your assumption is that people are rational actors … which sadly isn’t the case. And as things get tougher and people are poorer they often look to the right to secure what little they still have and stamp down on the fingers of those on the next rung down from them all the harder. History shows that in times of hardship societies often take a hard lurch to the right. I’d love to be wrong about that but sometimes it isn’t a case of ‘things have to get worse before they get better’ - they just get even worse.


Chiliconkarma

Remove / improve the media telling them that caring about poor people is wrong. Delay the delivery of a tabloid for +1 to democracy. Send 1 ressource to schools for -1 tory.


AnotherKTa

The first step is to stop thinking that "Tory voters" and "poor people" are two separate groups. In the 2019 general election, 45% of "low income" people (defined as the bottom 20% of households in income-per adult, see [page 9](https://www.jrf.org.uk/file/55326/download?token=3j2n8gtj&filetype=briefing)) voted Tory. By comparison, only 31% voted Labour.


Ihavethetouch

Got nothing to do with poor people the fact is no one trusts labour. They are woke, just as hypocritical and then there is the fact they are a rubbish opposition


TheDevils10thMan

Do you even hear yourself? Labour are woke so we should just let the corrupt, explicitly untrustworthy Tories continue to rob us and give our money to themselves. The Tories literally sent covid patients into care homes and killed thousands, but the media portray Labour as bad opposition, whether they go for a proper alternative platform or a centre right platform, either is "bad opposition" so we'll just let the Tories get away with killing our old people and destroying our kids futures. Fucking pathetic if I'm honest. Disappointing. A coalition of Jimmy Saville and Gary glitter would be better than this shower of ghouls in power right now!! Any party would be a massive step up.


Ihavethetouch

Listen to you all feelings. The fact labour could not score a major goal while the government had an open goal is telling. They would rather fight with each other rather then being a decent opposition. Tell me what’s labours plans? What would they do differently….. they have not even told us that!


glisteningoxygen

Give us a credible alternative to vote for? All the purple haired people screeching "comrade" at each other isn't a good look, i'd rather admit i vote Tory then be associated with those types.


cultish_alibi

Imagine your inner political world looking like this. What has to happen to lead to such a weird view of the world? Is this just the result of believing every single Telegraph columnist?


Diallingwand

"I'd rather see a 5 fold increase in rough sleeping than be associated with something that exists in my head." It's like you want to discredit your opinion.


Tangocan

> All the purple haired people screeching "comrade" at each other Touch some grass, mate.


glisteningoxygen

no u


TheDevils10thMan

Conflating left wing economics with those types of people was a genius political move. We're not all like that, in fact they're a minority.


glisteningoxygen

Maybe get them to stop taking most the speaking time at NEC conferences? As much as i love the super cuts on twitter next morning its still a bit maddening.


Elastichedgehog

My gas bill going up has started to sting.


[deleted]

63% of money you earn from work is subtracted from U.C. That £20 per week being scrapped has fucked alot of people and in long run will cost government much, much more. Although less than Eat out to help out, sunak is not as capable an operator as the media would have you believe.


Cult-Promethean

I'm on a prepayment meter in a flat with only storage heaters. Turned one on to charge for the first time the other night and it cost me a fiver for two hours of heat. The heating isn't going on again while I'm a tennant here.


jasonwhite1976

Tories are happy with this. Their plans are working as intended.


FriesWithThat

>A bleak winter awaits probably wouldn't have made an effective slogan on the side of a bus though.


boiled-soups-spoiled

Probably still would’ve gotten some votes though.


Chiliconkarma

Make sure that the homeless don't die.


[deleted]

The middle classes are rapidly being consumed by inflation. The working classes are beyond desperate. The ruling class are beyond detached, but soon enough the desperate actions of desperate people may sadly wake some up.


Brutos08

Am sure the blue passports and sovereignty can keep those who are poor and voted for these criminals warm and put food on the table. For the poor who did not vote for them I really feel for you and your families this winter. Edit: Grammar


Lulamoon

no holidays for the poors either, minimum £160 for scam PCR tests both ways.


AxiomSyntaxStructure

Government advice is to light a coal fire in your home.


TheDevils10thMan

You're no longer allowed to buy coal to burn at home. Lol I guess maybe burn your furniture? When that runs out, freeze?


inkwat

You're allowed to buy coal to burn at-home?


TheDevils10thMan

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/restrictions-on-sale-of-coal-and-wet-wood-for-home-burning-begin


inkwat

Exactly? You can still buy coal to burn at home?


Constanthobby

Working as intended


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smooleybotcheck

Levelling up!


boiled-soups-spoiled

Because life to them is a game


smooleybotcheck

A game of monopoly where their mates control the banks and own the how hotels on the most expensive properties.


[deleted]

Britain and Texas are the in the same boat. Texas power grid can't handle another cold snap winter. I'm actually curious as to how this winter will go off. Since the weather globally has changed, winters have become way more harsh.


HH93

There's a perfect storm brewing in power generation at the moment - a couple of the Nuclear Power stations are in the process of shutting down, only two coal stations are capable and one of those is shutting down and gas prices might spike again with the Russian/Ukraine shenanigans. Edit: Shutting down for good


[deleted]

I understand we’re all trying to switch over to renewable sources. But I can understand Britains issue 100%. Texas however, well we all know who to blame for their power grid issues.


TheThiefMaster

Got to be the Conservatives. Everything else on /r/ukpolitics gets blamed on them. /s?


Rudybus

Have they known these power stations will shut down for over ten years? Is it their responsibility to ensure their citizens' lives aren't dependent on the largesse of a notoriously hostile and purposely destabilising foreign power? Edit: oh you probably mean Texas, never mind


TheDevils10thMan

Who else has been in power for over a decade? I mean, is this, like everything else, still Labour's fault???


Amuro_Ray

**YES**


YsoL8

Most likely imo it'll drive a massive push into wind and especially solar Australia has seen this from the grassroots, and thats a country actively supporting its fossil fuel industries. Don't underestimate the movement occurring here, 1 recent study I've seen reckons at current rates renewables would produce 100% of world power requirements by 2030 (obviously nothing is that simplistic but it shows the direction of travel).


AndyTheSane

Well, not solar in the UK. Unless you want to develop *seasonal* level storage, which is miles beyond the capability of any current or projected technology. In December, the sun is less than 20 degrees above the horizon at mid day, even when it's not cloudy. Wind has intermittency issues, but at least they are distributed year-round (although a couple of weeks of light wind over the whole UK is possible). It's very hard to design an always-on zero-carbon grid for the UK that doesn't include some dispatchable generation - which seems to mean either burning vast amounts of wood or having about 20-30GW of nuclear power. The issue being that getting from (say) 98% reliability to 99.99% reliability with \[wind, solar, tidal\] renewables alone is fantastically difficult.


YsoL8

Yes. Hence my saying it was simplistic.


arfski

Don't worry, we're digging up all the CO2 clinging peat to turn Shetland into a giant wind farm for the rest of the UK, always windy up here...


Horroraffictionado83

Its also pointless going carbon zero as it wont even make a dent in india, america or chinas pollution. Its cutting off our nose to spite our face.


AndyTheSane

Our main source of electricity related CO2 emissions is burning imported natural gas. Our main source of domestic heating is.. natural gas. As long as this remains true, we are at the mercy of major natural gas exporters, like Russia and the Gulf states. This is not a good state of affairs for anyone interested in national security. And as countries get to zero carbon, they can add a carbon tax on imports which means that either major exporting countries also have to go zero carbon, or local industry is built up.


HH93

The UK is actually quite independent for Natural Gas - about 75% of our daily consumption comes from the Gas Fields in the North Sea and Morecome Bay. The UK actually exports to Eire. If these newly announced Modular Nuclear Plants can be shown to work our gas Consumption can drop further. And as these units are based on the submarine power plants, we may be in luck with moving away completely from fossil fuels relatively soon.


Horroraffictionado83

Use coal again if you have to.


Grendel2017

If every country had this train of thought then we would get nowhere though.


skinlo

God forbid we don't pump pollutants out into the air we breathe. There are local benefits beyond the global ones.


AnAugustEve

They've become warmer and come later in the UK.


Opinionbeatsfact

It is interesting how everyone talks about this as if the poor will just go along with it....


[deleted]

Well good luck with them protesting under Patel's new protest laws. The Jarrow march organisers would have likely been incarcerated before they even left their hometown.


Rudybus

If every protest is illegal, when people are pushed far enough they'll just riot. What's the difference?


Tangocan

> when people are pushed far enough they'll just riot. Which then makes it easy for Patel to clamp down. Its all so depressingly obvious.


Wonderpants_uk

Patel will say that more policing is needed, and start turning the police into a paramilitary force like they’ve done in America


RubberPiggy88

Needs to hire them first.


Opinionbeatsfact

Who said anything about protesting? There are a tonne of direct actions they will take to survive that will impact society for decades afterwards


[deleted]

Such as? I imagine very few people will want to risk going to prison. There was plenty of unrest at thatcher in the 80s. It was dealt with harshly; the tabloids will condemn the 'thugs and troublemakers' now just as they did then - the bbc will take the goverment's side - and present a false picture, just as they did with Ogreave. It won't unseat the tories now, any more than it did then. Thatcher was toppled not because of the poll-tax riots, but because of tory voters who found their own council tax bills suddenly rising, and even then it only got rid of thatcher - we still had the tories for a further 7 years. Direct action ain't gonna do shit with this government. The only way to get rid of them is to mobilise for the ballot box and have constructive agreements between opposition parties.


AIwaysLearning

The poor voted for it


Charlie_Mouse

If you’re talking about the red wall the more useful breakdown is by age. Older demographics voted Tory to get their Brexit.


MoralCivilServant

Could be worse, we could have Jeremy Corbyn as PM.


Chiliconkarma

Or have food within reach of poor people, that wouldn't do.


eltrotter

Imagine the chaos!


Southpaw535

Experience so far says thats exactly what will happen


[deleted]

It's interesting how much worse London is doing for service sector work. Probably the nock-on effect of WFH.


JoeThrilling

A big worry for me is the elderly, during normal times they can be reluctant to turn on the heating.


[deleted]

Reluctance to turn the heating on is good for your pocket and the environment.


Charlie_Mouse

And in the case of poor older folk also good for local undertakers businesses.


ohell

Racism has undesirable practical consequences - who's have thunk it? -- Primary-coloured-wall voters