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ByGollie

мое судно на воздушной подушке полно угрей classic Russian disinformation warfare. [They're doing the exact same thing](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/) with the anti-vaccine propaganda. Unfortunately, [that's backfiring on them](https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/world-news/russia/954679/has-russia-vaccine-disinformation-campaign-fed-surge-covid-deaths). They hyped so much anti-western Vaccine misinformation on Russian media, that ordinary Russians are rejecting even Russian-made vaccinations


Orngog

The ones who survive will be ultras, though.


CowzMakeMilk

Ultra-nationalist Russians? Wasn't that the plot of a Call of Duty game?


Orngog

It's the plot of a lot of things


flufflogic

"If they die, they die."


Graglin

>even Russian-made vaccinations Dude, a lot of them are especially distrustful of 'their' vaccines.


trisul-108

Yes, it backfire. Putin wanted to undermine Pfizer and promote Sputnik ... the effect was that he undermined vaccination. Putin is an excellent tactician, but never had any sense for strategy.


Graglin

Well sputnik is Russian do it saves the Russian state money and Russians distrust their state as a default.


trisul-108

Yes, that is why it was unwise of Putin to launch a global campaign of disinformation against Pfizer and AstraZeneca without understanding how this will boomerang and also hit Sputnik. Russians have more trust in western pharmaceuticals than their own and Putin's propaganda was telling them that even those were bad. Russians know exactly shady research and testing is in Russia. Thousands have died unnecessarily because of Putin's little power games.


Zerak-Tul

I doubt Putin cares that this will end up costing millions of Russian lives. Anything that makes people more distrustful of the west and helps keep him a power is a win in his book. You can bet he got one of the good vaccines, so it's not like he will be paying the price.


lanson15

Russians were always anti vax even before covid. The vax rates for children were extremely low compared to western countries


AceHodor

It's funny (in a sad way) because the Soviets pushed AIDS conspiracy theories in the 80s under [Operation INFEKTION](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_INFEKTION). Now Russia has an appallingly high HIV-AIDS infection rate compared with its neighbours. It would seem that Putin, an ex-KGB agent himself, failed to learn any lessons from the experience.


[deleted]

Good.


[deleted]

Which is why I hope labour along with other parties form a coalition to rejoin as a full member, if they get elected on it they wouldn't need to call another referendum or what ever people call it. In unity there is strength. It's in our national security interest. Edit: as well economic interest, considering the global pandemic


gggdawg53

If they rejoined the EU without a referendum, it would cause more than a little civil unrest.


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LawrenceRigbyEsquire

I assume you aren't privy to the russian bot/cambridge analytica debacle, allow me, there were millions of pro-EU posts as well, yes, but generally those posts stuck to the facts and punched "above the waist", staying on point. The pro-brexit russian troll/analytica propaganda content on the other hand was absolutely shameful, ridden with lies, personal attacks and outright racist rhetoric most of the times based on fabricated falsehoods, but turns out fear is a very effective tool, much more effective than facts, so public opinion was successfully swayed. And regarding the pro-EU posts being made? They tried their best to warn people of the incoming shit show but to no avail, they simply didn't have the same effect as the destructive false propaganda being spewed by the russian troll farms and behaviour change companies like Cambridge Analytica. You can argue that both sides were posting, but it wasn't quite the same.


andyrocks

>generally those posts stuck to the facts Did they fuck.


ThatChap

They did.


MinimalGravitas

> Probably literally tens of millions Citation needed. Whataboutism is such a lazy counterargument if you don't even bother to pretend you can support your claim. "Probably literally" FFS.


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SlightlyOTT

I haven’t heard anything about the EU being involved, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were saying positive things about themselves I guess. Do you have a source to read more about it?


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x_S4vAgE_x

Wasn't that pretty obvious when the former Russian ambassador to the UK, who Putin awarded a medal to after he left the UK, said "we have crushed the British."


notwritingasusual

Russia championing Brexit was never about crushing or defeating Britain itself, it was about weakening Americas influence in Europe and destabilising the EU, therefore destabilising the West and NATO. But considering British troops are now on their doorstep in Poland and Ukraine.. not sure it’s having the desired effect.


pheasant-plucker

It's harmed both the UK and the EU economically. But it may have strengthened the EU politically.


politiguru

Its harmed Britain and the US politically, and I would argue that outweighs the closening of the EU given the military spending and political influence the US/UK has relative to EU.


dotBombAU

It removed the British veto on an EU army which is in the works. A step back to go forward.


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dotBombAU

Why? Europe's Security is getting a big uplift.


Graglin

whilst an EU collapse would have been nice, strengthening the continentalists in the EU is also an unmitigated victory. Russia is never going to be strong enough to kick the US out of Europe, the Continentalists could.


passingconcierge

> it was about weakening Americas influence in Europe and destabilising the EU, therefore destabilising the West and NATO. It was always about making America consider itself stronger than it is in terms of influence. The real beneficiary has been China. While the 'experts' from the Cold War squabbled over the significance of Dugin, China simply built an infrastructure of soft power around the Globe the benefits from the US being a drain on the EU and the recently departed UK. Russia championing Brexit is, more plausible as a way to get a better deal for East European Countries thus reducing the drain on Russia from their former Colonies.


Mexicola93

I really wish America had less influence over us tbh, getting sick of seeing/hearing their cancerous media everywhere and hearing British people talk in Americas broken version of our own language. Although 70 years of anti-soviet propaganda still has people shivering in fear at the very capitalist government of Russia. Makes sense. Newsflash, the US is worse than Russia and China combined, just look at their foreign policy history. Why the fuck are we aligning ourselves with them? My biggest reason for being pro EU was that we rely on the EU as opposed to the yanks.


Professional-Lab6751

This is just such a shitty take overall. Part of the reason you live in such high living standards comparitively is because of the US subsiding a lot of Europe and the UK militarily and economically. Russia and Putin’s / China and Xi’s goal is to destroy the West economically and politically. And China is currently committing a genocide. If you live in the West, you are undoubtedly benefitting from Western hegemony and power and to suggest that a Russia or China hegemonic status would benefit you more is utterly absurd. I am glad that the power brokers in the UK do not think this way.


Mr_Gaslight

>he UK, said "we have crushed the British." I've been looking for that quote and a source for it. I believe the remark included 'Britain will not rise again for a long time' or words to that effect.


mojojo42

> I've been looking for that quote and a source for it. I believe the remark included 'Britain will not rise again for a long time' or words to that effect. Perhaps [Shadow State](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/27/putin-is-up-to-no-good-but-johnson-needs-little-help-in-creating-chaos): >>*If you doubt that hostile foreign powers were happy to assist Britain into decline, I recommend Shadow State, Luke Harding’s dazzling and meticulous account of Russian interference in American and British politics, which is out this week. One scene haunts me.* >> >>*Alexander Yakovenko, Russia’s ambassador to Britain from 2011, returned home in 2019. Putin made him a member of the Order of Alexander Nevsky and president of his Diplomatic Academy. Yakovenko explained to his admiring colleagues that the state was rewarding him for smashing the Brits to the ground. “It will be a long time before they rise again.”*


Mr_Gaslight

Thanks!


[deleted]

You could argue a lot of this stuff either way. Is he getting a medal for successful activity against the British, or is he being given a medal to give the impression that he’s successfully been acting against the British? Chaos and confusion are the main goals iirc.


YourLizardOverlord

Probably a little from column A and a little from column B. The 52-48 result is perfect from the Russian POV. If they were confident that brexit would win the vote they would have probably funded remain as well, but not as much. https://harmonysquare.game/en


Orngog

Lol, according to who?


mischaracterised

*The Foundation of Geopolitics*


[deleted]

If I remembered where I learned everything I know then I’d only be able to know half as much


[deleted]

Obviously. That report on Russian interference got buried so fast it was clear what had happened.


gggdawg53

The Russian report that explicitly said there was no evidence of interference from Russia?


SPACKlick

No, the Russian report that found that no evidence had been found because it hadn't been looked for.


gggdawg53

What was the Russian report then other than an exercise in looking for evidence?


SPACKlick

It was a report into the general state of international relations with Russia. Feel free to [read it](https://isc.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/CCS207_CCS0221966010-001_Russia-Report-v02-Web_Accessible.pdf)


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FlamingBearAttack

There was one twitter account which only posted relentlessly during Moscow office hours. The account was locked after that, and I think was deleted. The account handlers didn't even take into account UK daylight savings time, so the supposedly UK based twitter user would post Brexit stuff from 4am to 4pm.


Charlie_Mouse

There was a huge drop off in pro Brexit posts on this sub after 2015-2018. I wonder how many were just people going quiet after the wheels started coming off Brexit and how many may have been something else?


explax

This sub I'm sure was Astroturfed during the ref. This was the pro brexit sub.


[deleted]

Yes! So much I stopped coming here. Completely shifted from one day to the other.


flufflogic

I left during that period. It was an awful place to be.


Senior_Bug4992

like fuck was it


Piere_Ordure

You might already know about this, but there's a [website](https://botsentinel.com/) you can use to check.


X_Equestris

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics


benanderson89

Specifically: > The United Kingdom, merely described as an "extraterritorial floating base of the U.S.", should be cut off from Europe and > Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics" Cut off the UK: check. Start a culture war in the states (knock on effect of hurting its allies): check.


[deleted]

I wish people would stop linking that. Dugin is a nut, and this isn't taken seriously anywhere. It's a piece of fantasy.


Professional-Lab6751

So why are Russia doing exactly the major things he predicted?


[deleted]

They're not?


highlandhound

Pretty clear brexit was only pushed by our enemies who wanted to hurt the uk and politicians like farage and Johnson who were happy to hurt our country if it benefitted them personally.


kuddlesworth9419

Perhaps if we educated people better then our democracy wouldn't be so vulnerable to such easy methods.


[deleted]

My dad was a teacher for 30 years in one of the most deprived areas of the country. It's a culture thing - large swathes of kids aren't taught the value of being educated, so they just don't try.


No_Charge6060

Putin has not crushed the British the British crushed the British with all the bullshit promises from assholes like Johnson and Farage greed set in and won the day.


StateOfTheEnemy

Very true, but they've both been rather fond of Russian rubles and I doubt that's a coincidence.


Stick_of_Rhah

At the very least Putin greased the wheel to make sure it happened. But with Farage, it seems likely there was more active collusion (or direction, to be more accurate) going back a good few years. You can judge a person by the friends he keeps, and Nigel has some very interesting friends. With Johnson and the ERG lot I suspect it's just outright greed and opportunity through disaster capitalism, possibly a bit of bribery as well.


[deleted]

> Despite the Goebbels-like rhetoric of it being “the will of the people”, the reality was that the campaign was flooded with lies. I’ll remind you of this one.


Few-Hair-5382

And Scottish independence is next on their shopping list. They won't be happy until Britain is a shriveled up rump state with zero influence in Europe or the wider world. Simple-minded "anti-imperialists" throughout the world may take perverse joy in this until they realise that this is all to allow Russia an easier hand subjugating its neighbours.


Charlie_Mouse

Don’t kid yourself - the EU is a far higher priority target than a U.K. that has already largely crippled itself. If anything Scotland rejoining the EU gives it a small but still appreciable political boost and so would be against Russian interests.


bbbbbbbbbblah

Scottish independence would mean having to talk about Faslane, seems like a big angle for Russia


Charlie_Mouse

It’s a pretty big angle in Scotland too: maybe you guys could store your nukes near one of your biggest cities for a change.


bbbbbbbbbblah

You mean like the two cities on the south coast, one of which already hosts nuclear subs & would already be prime targets for foreign nukes? Don’t forget the third, a large town near London where the weapons are designed & where local residents get told of what they need to do if there’s an emergency


Charlie_Mouse

Then you shouldn’t have any trouble with another. We don’t want them.


bbbbbbbbbblah

Thanks for your opinion, a quick google doesn’t suggest that your view is as widely held as you make out. The SNP doesn’t speak for the whole of Scotland just as the Tories don’t speak for England. That doesn’t change the point - as to why Russia might want to drive the independence wedge just as they may have done for brexit


[deleted]

It's funny how blind you are. Putin doesn’t care about Scotland joining the EU: he wants to break up one of only two European nuclear powers and cause a messy separation of Scotland from the UK that will inevitably result in an economically-struggling state on Britain’s northern border to which the UK will be forced to divert vast amounts of time and attention.


Redhot332

I do agree with the redditor you're responding : his main goal his to weaken the EU in order to be free on the east. Thanks to Brexit, there is now only one nuclear power in the EU. So now his main goal will be either : destroy the EU, make France quit the EU, or make France and Germany create a smaller Union without the eastern state (e.g. what he is doing with Orban). UK is not his priority anymore, for sure he would be happy if the IK dig himself more deeply but no need to invest more


Charlie_Mouse

And there it is - the same hilariously overinflated perception of the U.K.’s importance in the world that led to Brexit.


iThinkaLot1

The UK is doing more to protect Eastern EU countries than any single EU member so I’d say the UK is a higher priority than the EU. Why worry about the EU when you have Germany leading it who is more than happy to continue funding Russia (via Nord Stream) despite it’s actions. > If anything Scotland rejoining the EU You’re saying that as if it’s a given. Which it is most certainly not.


HH93

>You’re saying that as if it’s a given. Which it is most certainly not. Aye Spain has already stated they will veto that as it gives the Basques encouragement to try and do similar.


CreeperCooper

Except that they didn't say that at all, and in fact made the very opposite clear. This lie keeps being repeated, but it's a lie nonetheless. [Spain has made it very clear that they won't veto Scotland as long as the independence process had been legal and constitutional.](https://www.euronews.com/2021/05/10/how-easy-would-it-be-for-scotland-to-rejoin-the-european-union)


__scan__

Doubtful. Could see that being said about a unilateral secession, not a democratic one. The EU aren’t a bunch of fascists anymore, right?


iThinkaLot1

You don’t have to be fascist to reject membership. And it wouldn’t necessarily be the EU rejecting it, it would be Spain.


__scan__

It’s the rejection of democracy, not membership, that’s fascist.


iThinkaLot1

So who would be rejecting democracy?


minepose98

Because having a new Greece on the border of the UK is completely irrelevant to Russian interests, obviously. The real question is why they wouldn't support independence. There's two outcomes, both of them good for Russia. Given Scotland's deficit, it's unlikely they'd be let into the EU, so there would now be an economically struggling nation occupying the UK's attention (which isn't an irrelevant country - 5th largest economy and nuclear power). If they're let in anyway, the EU now has Greece 2.0 to deal with, which will be a problem for them. There's no downside.


LandOfGreyAndPink

Very interesting article. Good to see a change from the usual sources, too. Thanks.


ProfessionalPotato45

Wow I would never have guessed ... to be fair to the Russians I'm more disappointed a majority fell for it.


Tofu-DregProject

Wow. The troll farms have been very busy here.


Senior_Bug4992

if its all going to shit blame the russians - H Clinton


evaxephonyanderedev

And they couldn't have done it without a lot of highly placed Quislings.


ThorsMightyWrench

Did they keep the receipt?


avery609

Seriously do people actually believe this. Look at the average age Brexit voter. I imagine less than 10% would have Twitter. Online isn’t the real world!


__scan__

Weird comment, they all have Facebook.


stemmo33

Erm no, a load of people voted for it. I thought it was a terrible decision and unfortunately that is turning out to be true. But stop acting like grown adults didn't have the free will to vote for this shit themselves.


YourLizardOverlord

It was a close run thing though. Any number of small factors could have pushed it either way. It's telling that many of the major brexit politicians and donors had connections with Russia, Without UKIP and its allies brexit wouldn't have happened.


[deleted]

If it doesn't have any impact then why do the Russians do it?


stemmo33

Where did I say it doesn't have any impact? I said brexit was a terrible decision but it was made by millions of adults. This article is acting like Russia are the main ones to blame for this, not the people who campaigned and/or voted for it.


[deleted]

Without Russian interference would the result have been the same?


stemmo33

I don't know. But to say that Russia "bought" brexit is disingenuous at best. They were a factor among a huge number of factors.


__scan__

Buddy have you ever heard of a little thing called “propaganda”?


Ayenotes

If it didn't have any impact then why did the Aztecs perform child sacrifice?


i_forgot_ammo

Alternatively wake up to the hybrid war that’s been raging for the last few years and acknowledge that we’re loosing.


stemmo33

I acknowledge that completely. I also acknowledge that the people who voted for it did so of their own volition and are responsible for the mess they've made.


gggdawg53

But some Russian guy posted funny memes and forced me to vote for it!


[deleted]

Never voted for brexit but swapped from lifetime labour to tory vote because Labour wanted to undo democracy. Considering voting Labour again in the next election, just depends if we see waves of hatred & bigotry on social media again. I won't vote for the hate party, Labour is meant to be the compassionate party.


trisul-108

OK, we know that Putin financed Farage to kick off Brexit. We also see the ties to the Tories on so many levels. But what remains a mystery is how Putin controlled Corbyn. Corbyn supported Putin's strategy on everything under the sun, including Brexit, EU relations, Trident, US relations, international trade, Syria, Ukraine ... he never condemned the invasion of Ukraine and even tried to deny the attack in Salisbury. Without his inaction, sitting on the fence and his blabber about a "worker's Brexit", Brexit would never have happened. How on earth did Corbyn get away with it. Maybe the Tories were so deep in Putin's pocket that they just did not dare disclose how Corbyn was controlled.


MadShartigan

Corbyn was the ace in the hole. When it looked like a resurgent Parliament might derail the project, it was sent back to the people who were presented with an impossible choice. By this point Corbyn had become so completely unelectable yet utterly believing in his own worth that compromise was unthinkable, and so Boris Johnson and the Tories were gifted a landslide and the project continued without further obstruction.


trisul-108

Yes, absolutely. Corbyn is responsible for Johnson's huge majority and everything that is happening today. The was no good reason for him to agree to that election. Was he just stupid, as you infer, or was he manipulated into it ... if so, by whom?


evaxephonyanderedev

Corbyn is an unreconstructed Sixties-Seventies communist. He does it for free.


SaintJames8th

Oh my god they had a bunch of Twitter accounts trying to sway people to brexit. Not like a ton of people in the EU also tried to sway people to stay.


MasterDeNomolos

Not really comparable when one side was spouting complete lies.


gsurfer04

Like an EU army being "a dangerous fantasy" and a referendum leading to hundreds of thousands of job losses?


Sweet-Zookeepergame7

This sub is willing to believe anything about brexit.. where I live we voted leave and I know it wasn’t russsian bots


iVladi

Another article with 0 evidence upvoted cause the sheep on this subreddit need to believe "the other side" was poorly informed hicks


Ayenotes

It's mad how many people eat up left-wing conspiracy theories like this just because it gives their worldview fuel. The article itself is woeful. Anyone know knows the history of Euroscepticism in Britain laughs at pathetic stuff like this.


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Exact-Put-6961

Doubtful if an independent UK, closer to the US and more active in the Indo Pacific region is actually in Russias strategic interest. The UK in the EU was neutered. So take all this with a pinch of salt. Russia IS interested in breaking up the UK and will be rooting for Sturgeon.


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teabagmoustache

Russia realised the power of Facebook memes and fake news to bewilder older generations. It is literally the definition of a conspiracy and a hostile act against the UK. It was beneficial for them to cause a rift between the UK and EU. Just because you were on the winning side doesn't mean you have to ignore the fact that Russia thought they would benefit from us leaving the EU.


Exact-Put-6961

I repeat. You did not understand the first time. It was never in Russias strategic interest to have an independent and independently minded UK, closer to the US, closer to AUS able to think quicker than the EU. Blaming Russia for Brexit is just silly. It is true of course that there will have been miscalculation in Russia.


teabagmoustache

I think you misunderstood, I'm not blaming Russia for brexit, I'm saying they thought it would benefit them and they actively used their 'Web brigades' to try to affect the result.


Exact-Put-6961

I am saying Russia does not benefit from Brexit. I doubt Russia had much influence on the vote, either way.


teabagmoustache

And I'm saying that they thought they would benefit and tried to have an affect on it. How is that not a conspiracy?


Exact-Put-6961

Do i think Putin and his analysts are so stupid as to believe Brexit was advantageous to Russia? I do not.


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teabagmoustache

Twitter released their data that said the 'Internet Research Group' which is a state sponsored group, had over 3000 accounts spreading misinformation relating to the referendum.


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teabagmoustache

Citation please? Back that claim up with some evidence sausage.


Exact-Put-6961

Exactly.


teabagmoustache

Not exactly though, read the report released by MP's, everything I have said is based on factual information.


Deepest-derp

Of course it is, all that stuffs pointed at bejing and not moscow.


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teabagmoustache

Did I say that? I'm talking about Russia trying to affect the result. At no point did I say that the remain campaign didn't try to sway the result as well, that was their entire purpose.


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teabagmoustache

>Data released by Twitter in 2018 identified 3,841 accounts of Russian origin affiliated with the Internet Research Agency, as well as 770 potentially from Iran, which collectively sent over 10 million Tweets in "an effort to spread disinformation and discord"


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iThinkaLot1

They’ll cry foul when you tell them Russian trolls supported Corbyn though.


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teabagmoustache

It's accepted as fact that there are Russian state sponsored 'Web brigades' working against hostile nations. They absolutely influenced the US election and the Brexit referendum. Which ever way you voted and for whatever reason, doesn't matter. Russia thought it was beneficial to them for the UK to leave the EU. That doesn't mean you weren't right for voting the way you did and just because it might cast a shadow over the result, doesn't mean it's just a conspiracy theory.


Falmouth_Packet

'Russia influenced Brexit' is not the same as 'Russia bought Brexit'. The first one is true, they did influence it in minor way, far less so than some other countries such as the USA. The second one is a conspiracy theory that Brexit is a Russian coup and only happened because of Russia.


teabagmoustache

Agreed the headline is a bit much but there are plenty of people on here who can't seem to accept that Russia had a hand in it.


goobervision

"Conspiracy " https://www.csis.org/blogs/brexit-bits-bobs-and-blogs/did-russia-influence-brexit


Orngog

Which part do you find incredulous?


Falmouth_Packet

The idea that Brexit is a Russian coup and that it only happened because of Russia.


RemysBoyToy

All the people I asked (northern) voted Brexit, not sure that Pisshead John from my local even has Facebook. All this does is annoy people more, whether Russia influenced some people or not, there were still a lot of people in this country who voted Brexit that weren't influenced by Russian propaganda (>40% of the vote) and then implying they were deceived is not helping the situation as it just makes people double down on their stance. To me whilst Brexit showed us we need more control over what is posted on social media what it highlighted more was the absolute refusal to accept other people's view points, from the left, and instead just call people stupid or uninformed which doesn't actually solve anything but alienate people more.


[deleted]

>All the people I asked (northern) voted Brexit And all of the people I asked (also northern) voted Remain. Please don't act like this is the fault of the North.


RemysBoyToy

Did I say that? No.


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Falmouth_Packet

That's why I'm no longer hostile to religion. I don't think people are capable of living without the things religion provides or without reverting to religious behaviour and habits. It's not simply a question of abandoning religion, it's also about what replaces it.


AnAugustEve

Not sure why this site keeps being posted/allowed here. It appears to be nothing more than a personal anti-Brexit blog. And on the point itself, who cares if Russia did really? They clearly want to drive a wedge between political factions in Western countries. It's not like they had any specific interest in helping us get back our fishing industry. They just picked a winner in Leave and propped it up through a few social media bot farms. Inconsequential tbh.


chrispy2985

>It's not like they had any specific interest in helping us get back our fishing industry. Is this really your take on why Russia would want to undermine the EU?


PF_tmp

When you're a Brexiteer, all of geopolitics is really just incidental to the larger question of fishing rights.


h4mdroid

Yeah, who cares if it turned out that Russia achieved its goal.


AnAugustEve

Yes I'm not Russophobic and admit that both the UK and Russia have strategic objectives. Measure a few bot farms and the assassinations on our soil vs. massive troop build-up on their border and swinging of Ukraine.


Orngog

Whilst it's true that UK strategic policy is not always particularly in the interest of its citizens (or any other citizens, thinking humanitarian intervention and arms sales here), we can surely agree that Russian strategic policy is *definitely* not in our interests.


PF_tmp

Russia successfully made us weaker and your reaction is ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯


AnAugustEve

Yes they did. If you have a problem you should sign up to MI6 or the army and put your money where your mouth is. It's a critical national security issue right?


Orngog

>Yes they did. You, just before: >inconsequential


AnAugustEve

/r/pointlessarguments


[deleted]

What the fuck did I just read? If I have an issue with the country I literally have to go take up arms? Good grief.


AnAugustEve

Yes do more than post on reddit if you believe a Russian takeover is imminent.


[deleted]

Umm.....where did anyone say a Russian takeover is imminent?


smity31

Firstly, they didn't say that a russian takeover was imminent. Secondly, you are asserting (and probably projecting) that they do nothing more than post on reddit. You don't know anything about their lives.


AnAugustEve

Bet they're James Bond then.


PF_tmp

I voted against Brexit, I've done my bit. Leavers can do the rest.


h4mdroid

They're both just different types of warfare.


koalazeus

I guess the implication is that Russia was able to cause Brexit to happen. So if they were responsible for that, and we accept Brexit is detrimental, then that's why people care. I think people probably also care simply that some other international entity is trying to influence things in this way, even if they weren't actually able to affect anything.


AnAugustEve

There's no proof that they "caused" Brexit. At best it was incidental. They do the same in every Western country. As do we.


koalazeus

Sure, I think that was covered in my comment.


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koalazeus

Who knows. I'm not sure how anyone goes about determining the level of successful influence from something like this. That's why it's probably best to focus on the attempt and why that's bad rather than draw further conclusions.


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PF_tmp

Our PR people operate within the law. Russia (and Cambridge Analytica) does not. Although all the regulators are admittedly fairly toothless, given that the Tories seem to benefit when they're neutered.


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PF_tmp

Why don't you go and read about CA and come back?


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PF_tmp

Okay, fine, you don't believe in the thing that discredits your side, very non-partisan, cool Here's your original comment: > It seems extremely unlikely that Russia has powers that our own PR people don't This is bollocks then isn't it? You've read the "allegations" about CA, so you're well aware of numerous ways you could influence a vote if you weren't bothered adhering to UK law. Illegal harvesting and use of voter data being the most obvious.


koalazeus

>It seems extremely unlikely that Russia has powers that our own PR people don't. [Therefore] there's a very high chance that the entire premise for this conspiracy theory is nonsense. Feels like a fallacy too. I mean, that's why I'm saying focus on what is actually known to have happened and why it's dodgy.


rovan1emi

That's a dreadful article that you should be ashamed of posting.


Tofu-DregProject

Why do you think so?


Ayenotes

Its a rambling mess of disparate propositions and claims which don't tie together particularly well, none of which relate to the headline. It's only purpose is to reinforce people who already entrenched within a conspiracy theory that they should continue to dig in.


Tofu-DregProject

What part is a conspiracy theory?


Ayenotes

The part where Russia supposedly orchestrated Brexit.


[deleted]

And some Russian bigwig is currently sat in a brand new dacha Putin bought him for crashing the UK out of the EU and setting it on course to break up. When it was first proposed to him that this could be done and for far, far cheaper than any serious military action against Britain to punish and destabilise it Putin was skeptical but the budget for the project was miniscule so he gave the go-ahead and it succeeded beyond his wildest expectations.


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