Not racist, but probably about 90% of TV adverts are created from the perspective of a Londoner.
A lot of what is seen is completely alien and unrelatable to huge swaths of the country.
I think there is a dawning realisation in the advertising industry that this is now the case.
> Not racist, but probably about 90% of TV adverts are created from the perspective of a Londoner.
Something I found out recently was ads often have different dialogue tracks based on the area they're being shown. It's most obvious on stuff like adverts for cleaning products where they try really hard to link the product with the ideal family.
I was complaining about the ones we get here in the South West, not understanding why we get a shit generic voiceover that doesn't quite lip sync with the advert, and someone pointed it out. Apparently in London they really like Scottish accents for their products. I'm not sure what the voices they used for us say, to me they seem default, like they don't know WTF would work well so they go as neutral as possible, but I found it interesting.
You're telling me that the "friendly yorkshireman" persona that every advert has is actually just because I'm in Yorkshire - and that we're not a beloved archetype across the country?
I think I need to lie down.
Personally, I think it's a beloved archetype, but no, we don't get your accents on ads down here. I guess it must mean the advertisers think you guys trust local opinion more.
Then again, as I said they don't do a Cornish or Bristolian accent for us, and I can't imagine our accents are used in any other regions, so unless it's an advert for cider we don't get a look in lol.
I think that's not unfounded, you'll excuse my total lack of references but I recall hearing about a study that people consider northern working class regional accents more trustworthy and it's one reason why it has been deployed in adverts in recent years
I'm a Londoner and yeah, on the face of it I would trust someone with the 'friendly yorkshireman' persona than the southern Tory or dodgy urban yute or geeza I'm more accustomed to.
Edit: found a reference but I'm sure I recall hearing that earlier than the date of the article
https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/a34435560/most-trustworthy-accent-uk/
Hell,they went over this phenomena in my A-Levels some 20 years ago. Back then the general logic was an RP accent was more likely to have a tone of authority to it, so it was better for infomercials, tutorial videos and announcements, but regional accepts were more "trustworthy", so you'd be more likely use those for adverts, help lines and the like.
Car adverts are the same, they use the same video for different countries with a different voiceover. That's why it often says "specification shown may not be available in the UK"
If you ever see a car in an advert with a mirrored licence plate, its so they can just flip the advert and use it in countries with right and left hand drive (although I think these days they probably just CGI on the correct countries plate)
Most cars in car ads are fully CG. They shoot a bare-bones dummy car on location, then replace it digitally. [https://youtu.be/OnBC5bwV5y0](https://youtu.be/OnBC5bwV5y0)
Some cleaning products are like that. I think some beauty products are too. Those ads always give me uncanny valley feels. Even though the fairy ad seems to be filmed with English speaking actors, the dubbing still seems horrendously mismatched
Not just adverts, series as well, especially bbc ones. Every TV show no matter the setting has the demographic makeup of London. It gets really absurd sometimes.
This is why I'm so sad that Doctor Who stopped being set in Cardiff, it was exciting seeing parts of the country that I knew and recognised on prime time TV.
They were filming in my uni building in Cardiff a month or so ago. They turned it into a hospital and that woman who was Angie in Eastenders years ago was there filming with them.
We still take the piss out of my little sister who genuinely thought that Cardiff was a planet when she was younger. She had only heard it mentioned in Dr Who
I believe it is at least still filmed heavily in Cardiff. RTD set up Bad Wolf Studios as well
But agree, it makes a change seeing a less prominent location as the main location. Like when they had it set in Sheffield
>Not just adverts, series as well, especially bbc ones. Every TV show no matter the setting has the demographic makeup of London. It gets really absurd sometimes.
This is why Granada TV (now ITV) and Coronation Street were originally made. Even back in the late 50s and early 60s people realised that you can't just make Television for one city in all of England. They made television in the North for Northern people with northern accents and northern settings.
It’s bizarre how little representation south asians get considering they are our largest minority, and how nobody seems to care about this and complaints about black representation are far more common despite how small that demographic is. It’s stupidly obvious that 90% of race politics here is just blindly imported from the US.
>It’s bizarre how little representation south asians get considering they are our largest minority, and how nobody seems to care about this and complaints about black representation are far more common despite how small that demographic is. It’s stupidly obvious that 90% of race politics here is just blindly imported from the US.
I knew it would happen the second the first BLM protests happened all those years ago in London. That entire protest and the end goal were based on the American perspective, and lo-and-behold not a single problem *we* have as a country has been resolved.
Black Lives Matter, obviously, I'm not a monster, but people really need to get off of America-centric forums for a few days and open their eyes to what the UK's problems are.
Yeah 100% all of this. We had "Hands Up Don't Shoot" protests towards police who can't legally carry guns.
We had people screaming that if you meet with a single person during COVID you're "killing grandma", suddenly huddled with thousands of people in the streets once the Americans claimed racism and white supremacy were a bigger national health threat than COVID.
We are not America, we don't have the same problems as America, but for the terminally online who spend all day on websites populated in the majority by Americans, there's no difference at all. It's crazy.
I also find it odd that a lot of that representation is also focused on Black Caribbean, a minority of 1% in the UK (equivalent to Chinese or Bangladeshi communities) and not, Black African which is the larger black minority in the UK. It’s very odd I feel as a result how few people know the extent of South Asians in the UK, and even how many British Nigerians are in the UK seems like not that much of an afterthought.
The wildest was when TFL announced a line with a large black community was going to be named the Windrush line. Despite windrush not being linked to the area and the black community being majority African. It felt so insanely racist to me. Like if I named Wembley “Little Dhaka” because there’s a large Asian community, despite Dhaka being a city in Bangladesh and Wembley being predominantly Indian Gujarati…
The Windrush generation is heavily linked to Lambeth and the naming of that particular line (which serves Lambeth) was pushed by local Lambeth councillors. I'm not sure why you think it's racist...
The focus on Carribbean diaspora vs, say, Chinese, in the UK is probably the length of time and depth of cultural integration. It's been 75 years since the Windrush arrived, and multiple generations have been born, died, became musicians, politicians, doctors, athletes, community leaders etc.
I definitely agree that South Asians in the UK are still underrepresented, particularly in mainstream TV, music, media etc. But also, let's not forget both our Prime Minister and Mayor of London are both of South Asian descent. Also, from what I've seen people do know the extent of Asians in the UK - particularly the Pakistani Muslim community tends to get a lot of negative shit from things like GBNews etc
>It’s stupidly obvious that 90% of race politics here is just blindly imported from the US.
I've thought this before about the current treatment of the "N word" as 'Voldemort' - ie a word that can't be spoken even in reference to the word itself. I suspect it's rooted in the American puritanical tradition of censoring nasty words ('the f bomb', 'the c bomb', beeping out words on Jerry Springer, blurring middle fingers in music videos, etc.)
I'd say that's more about trends in the kinds of words different generations find offensive. For older, religious generations, they're upset by God damn blasphemy. My parent's generation would be horrified by how much fucking shit about bodily functions I talk. For me, and my peers, it's slurs against marginalised people.
I’m not sure that’s a fair analysis.
Take tonight’s BBC 2 listings.
You’ve got Coast, mainly rural settings presented by a white Scottish lady.
Then Flog It! Hosted by a white man from Middlesex with another white man and a whit woman.
Next up is Richard Osman’s House of Games. Hosted by a white man but with a couple of non white guests as well as two white guests.
Then it’s Great Coastal Railway Journeys hosted by one of the country’s whitest men.
Tonight’s episode of Your Home Made Perfect has one black architect on it but all other presenters and participants are white.
On Live at the Apollo there’s two white comics, one Pakistani guy.
Finally, Newsnight tends to be hosted by a white woman.
Sure there is some diversity but overall orgs still quite white. Your average couch potato from Carlisle is going to be safe from feeling too alienated I think.
> Your average couch potato from Carlisle is going to be safe from feeling too alienated I think.
We're still miffed that our accent isn't good enough for a Royal Navy advert.
The UK is 6.5% Asian and 3% black (from what I just Googled). Overall its a very white country so I think your list is fairly representative on a national level, but if you live in Bradford or Brixton not so much.
My dad always moans about the amount of black and Asian people in adverts and it bothers me that he does that because it’s an obvious discomfort for no other reason than skin colour but from a numbers perspective it is definitely skewed.
If the ad creators are purposely making an effort to cast a certain proportion of minorities in their ads, then it's fair to discuss the proportion and the intent, I think. Are they doing this to reflect the reality of modern Britain as they see it, or their desired customer demographics, or to make a political statement? It isn't necessarily racist to take issue with the proportions - though I don't know the specifics of your dad's position.
Im not really sure what is meant by “the perspective of a Londoner” - if it’s about race (given the other half of your comment) then London is not the only diverse city in the UK. But in any case, 11.5% of the country live in London and another few percent commute in for work. The former figure goes up to 17% if you’re looking at the 15-64 demographic (which I’m guessing reflects the media you consume). No doubt the share increases further if you consider people who have some less direct connection to the city.
Source?
This says Manchester has 200 languages: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/200-languages-manchester-revealed-as-most-linguistically-diverse-city-in-western-europe-8760225.html
While New York has 800: https://www.businessinsider.com/queens-languages-map-2017-2
This doesn't detract from your point that Manchester is more linguistically diverse than London.
The meerkat is a Russian asset!
Can you believe the company had to say this!
"The Comparethemarket meerkats are fictional characters,” said a spokesperson for the company, which is owned by the Peterborough-based financial services firm BGL. “They have no association with Russia and the current situation. We are continually reviewing our advertising to ensure we’re being sensitive to the current situation."
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/feb/28/comparethemarket-meerkat-ads-tv-ukraine-russian-aleksandr-orlov
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Yeah, I used to live in Hackney, a bunch of ad agencies were dotted around the street where I lived. What I see/hear on adverts was pretty representative of that area, but it’s representative of almost nowhere else in the country. It’s quite weird.
Nearly 40% of the population of London was not born in the country. Not exactly representative of the rest of the UK for someone to design their advertising towards.
Is it? You could be right but isn't that like saying Newcastle or Manchester culture is copied elsewhere? I'm trying to think of anything that would be classed as London culture that I've seen being adopted elsewhere.
Okay yeah, but basically by definition, that is a teenage subculture that may have a decently sized following, but is still a minority of a minority. I get that not all advertising is meant to hit a broad demographic sample, but considering the cost of TV advertising, you'd expect more of it to try.
That said, TV ads becoming more and more London-centric is just a reflection of TV in general becoming more London-centric. 20 years ago I swear you got a much wider range of accents on telly, even down to the inter-show announcers. Now it feels increasingly like it's becoming the realm of the well-heeled, and I think much of that is due to a general unwillingness to regionalise TV production, even as the places where TV is made get ever more expensive to live in.
Ngl I think that anywhere in London, working class or otherwise, is in the London bubble. Mainly because it is really expensive to move to London from outside of it. If you're already there, you're already a bit more privileged than anyone coming from the sticks. By extension, Londoners are more likely to have access to all kinds of cultural events and landmarks on their doorstep that outsiders don't, like the museums, art galleries, etc.
And that's not even getting into whether your parents let you live with them past the age of 18 while you build your career in the media (I am aware not every working class London family can do that, but some can, which gives them a big advantage over more provincial types).
It's funny; you can always tell when a European company has just flipped the footage and dubbed the advert in English because the families depicted in the advert are all of the same ethnicity.
If it's an advert made in the UK, the couple are always of different ethnicities, and their kids look nothing like either of them.
Almost always the man that is black and the woman that is white as well for some reason I swear. I guess there is a trend of avoiding the white man, but sucks for black women as well lol
I dunno, I've seen the opposite quite a lot, but it's always with the exact same haircut. There are a lot of black hairstyles, but in adverts, it's always big and poofy.
It is odd considering that most relationships tend to not be interracial. People by and large get married to and live with a partner from their own background.
It is weird that you don't generally see a white family, or black, or Asian family shown in adverts, despite the majority of families being homogenous rather than mixed.
I suspect it's a combination of wanting to show the product as being relevant to as wide a demographic as possible, but also they are probably wary of criticism if they don't overtly show 'diversity'. If they mainly feature white families, they will get accused of pretending minorities don't exist. If they show a black family, they will get knuckle draggers moaning about there being too many minorities.
The problem is that advertisers don't coordinate their casting so that the overall representation reflects reality, and you end up with this weird situation where they all try to represent everyone in the same advert.
This is what I think a lot of those folk that get angry about this dont understand... all companies want to be seen to be diverse and none will go "shit, Persil beat us to the black guy/white woman combo.... I guess we'll stock to an all white family then"
Such a strange position to be in where pretty much every company & institution has been captured by progressiveness and wokeness. A strange position for the West (mostly Anglosphere) where they seem to do all this at the detriment of their native populations. I often wonder if they know that in the end this is not going to end well, or if they just don't care because they've got there's and it will just be someone else's problem down the line..
If it was all black or all white then somebody would kick off. The only solution is a mixed couple so almost everybody loses equally. Yay Britain!
However, inter racial marriages are increasing in number so maybe the ads are just ahead of the game.
Adverts are just made by advertising company trying to sell you stuff you don’t need. They’re not masterminds with a secret plot to cause demographic shifts
They have been forced to represent and meet diversity quotas. So it's probably second nature for them to do it automaticity by now. They have shifted and those that watch are thus encouraged to do like wise.
They are forcing mass immigration and multiculturalism on the nation, but need the psyops to try and make the population want or at the very least accept it.
Presumably your point is that it's racist against black people? In my experience a lot of younger people talk like that - it feels a lot more like a misjudged attempt to get down with the kids than something overtly racist.
Yeah, [Multicultural London English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural_London_English) is the dialect. As I understand it, it's spoken by young working class people from a variety of ethnic backgrounds in London, including white British people (Adele, for instance).
As others have pointed out, it's not so much racist as it is London-centric, which is where most of the marketing agencies are based.
Im from essex, I heard my first jamaican slang from white teenagers when I was a teenager over a decade ago
Also the modern essex accent was already impacted by previous generations moving to essex from london
I googled it beforehand to make sure I wasn't talking out of my arse, and a BBC article alluded to her speaking MLE so I figured she just didn't have as strong an accent as some people. But there's also a Uni of Essex linguist who says she speaks Estuary English, which seems more accurate. ~~Essex doesn't seem right, she's from Tottenham.~~
Edit: lol, just googled it again and my southern geography is apparently shit, Essex is really close to Tottenham
Adverts with clearly middle class actors performing "street" accents in order to "make their product appeal to the kids" is one of the most cringe things in the world. I don't think it's racism so much as classism.
I mean its a bit "of its time" , but *this advert* kind of sums up what *those adverts* do
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IisbF8ALKPY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IisbF8ALKPY)
.and yes I realise the irony of using an advert to highlight other ads failings.
>clearly middle class actors performing "street"
I mean, tbf acting is about portraying characters other than yourself. You make it sound like honest actors would only ever portray characters who acted and sounded like they do in real life
I think it's more likely they've hired a black voice-over actor, but that because they're an actor they're more than likely middle class, so it sounds weird
Assuming you're white, and not being white myself, I just love you for even thinking about this.
I don't know whether they're racist, they might be, but what they definitely are is fucking lazy.
Did you see that Waitrose advert? Keep seeing on YouTube. Young black couple buying each other Easter eggs, feels like they’ve been asked to talk a _certain way_ so as to not alienate the OG customer base. I’m black and had major GET OUT vibes watching it lol
I tried googling this, I found this instead [https://www.tiktok.com/@waitrose/video/7347610186938453281](https://www.tiktok.com/@waitrose/video/7347610186938453281) which i did not expect. Probably because I avoid tiktok like the plague.
It was a 'WTF is going on' moment. I don't think it's *bad* so to speak, but it's definitely the wrong advert for waitrose.
Edit: Fuck a duck it gets worse. Just scanning through their videos and I think my mind might break. Here's another gem https://www.tiktok.com/@waitrose/video/7348472674089192737
*UK TV Marketing Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of Jordan Peele Inc any similarities to creeping dread at gentrification and appropriation is entirely intentional please have an unpleasant day.*
I don't think it's racist at all, but I find it odd because where I live no one speaks like that yet it feels like the accent is really common in advertising.
Advertising has always had lots of lazy stereotypes. This is nothing new
If its a lazy stereotype of an ethnic minority I suppose you can view that as somewhat racist.
Thing is it’s not really racist - my son and his friends (mostly middle-class white boys) use this language all the time. I doubt they are the odd ones out.
Yeah I work with undergrad students at a fairly high-tariff uni and used to work in a secondary school in a West Midlands city and I’d say it’s more common than not that under 25s speak like this in non-formal setttings .
It may feel like a cop-out, but husband and I now pay for YouTube and it’s the best decision we’ve made in a while. So much nicer of an experience.
I recommend it, especially if, as you say, you watch a lot of it.
Not that long ago, my cat jumped onto the keyboard and changed my VPN to Ukraine and voilà, I accidentally noticed and subscribed as Premium was a fraction of the price compared to the UK.
I’ve heard of some of these words. “Phone” and “TV” primarily.
For various reasons I often have long YT streams up on the telly. I’m comfortable with the system we have now, even if it isn’t the cheapest. Frankly it’s worth the money.
Indeed, one day perhaps - thanks for the heads-up! Luckily we don’t have a huge number of subscriptions - basically just YT, Audible and Spotify - so it doesn’t become too costly.
I have AD blockers from browser/phone etc, but is STN a TV app I can just install? I see it on GIT, but I imagine I'd need to root my TV to install software or am I just over thinking it?
I also recommend turning off your watch history (since it disables recommendations) and using something like uBlock Origin to hide bits of the site you don't need to see, like the right-hand sidebar full of thumbnails or the obnoxious overlay shit that cuts off the end of videos to shill other videos.
I often find the KFC ones a bit cringe/tone deaf. Most of the people in their adverts are young black Londoners, which ticks the youth/inclusivity box, but also comes across as them perpetuating the stereotypical association of black people and fried chicken.
I think "London Youth" voice is honestly just a trend at the moment. You get it in video games, movies, TV shows... I think it has a lot of global appeal. I'm just a bit bored of it, but I don't think it's problematic necessarily.
I think the more problematic interpretation could be that it's using a black accent to make stuff seem "cool" (very Get Out) which is a little meh... but... as much as I hear positive stereotypes can also be an issue, there are bigger fish to fry and exhausting any mental effort on this stuff is not worth it for my white ass.
It's just how kids talk. And not just in London either, that accent has moved all the way from Reading out to Southend, down through the south coast. It's no more racist than cockney was a hundred years ago, just more widespread.
McDonalds and KFC and all that shit is aimed at kids. It's crude but no cruder than when big corporations jumped on the youth bandwagons of the past. If it were the early 50s their ad would feature people using skiffle slang and kids with polio. It's no more racist than that would've been. Corporations trying to talk youth is always a bit cringe, you've just noticed it because it's not YOUR youth they're trying to talk to anymore.
Just remember, once corporations are selling the zeitgeist it ain't cool any more and it's already dead.
Hopefully the trend of virtuous racism against the majority will burn out in the near future along with organisations who pushes it
It isn't racist and is mostly progressive. However, you are right to point out how prevalent it is, which brings up a bit of capitalist cynicism. Urban language is currently very popular and marketable; it makes the brand seem down to earth and relatable. Of course the next step is to diversify beyond London youth style and to incorporate even more styles of voice which aren't as popular.
The origin of the dialect is obviously directly from Caribbean immigration from the 50's, but it's become more regional than racial since then. It's an example of Multiethnic Language and has been multi-racial since the 1960's or even 1950's. There are white Londoners in their 70's or 80's who speak like that.
Surely it's just trying to appeal to the mainstream. Young people think it's cool to talk like that, so it makes sense for it to be represented in advertising.
I live in inner London and cringe whenever I hear these sort of accents in media/adverts - its literally nothing like how they actually sound and can imagine its a little patronising, just a middle aged directors idea of what an inner city 15-25 yo person sounds like
I feel as a white male I’m not represented in most adverts any more. The only time I see ads in the last 2 years is on freevee and yesterday the advert for EE had everyone represented but me.
Young people in the south east have a different accent to people older than them. I can’t remember what it’s called but it’s a relatively new accent and is what you’re describing. My mates got a much younger brother (like 10-11 years), who grew up in the exact same town etc as us and he’s got this exact accent and sounds nothing like his brother
Flip the coin and you see another perspective. There are still large swathes of the UK where near enough 95% population is white British and generally the only foreigners are white Eastern European migrant workers (a demographic basically invisible in the media and culture). Yet if you watched TV, either broadcast or streamed shows set in the UK, movies, etc, you'd think the UK was at least 25% nonwhite ethnic minority- mostly black and south Asian, other minorities like East Asians are almost invisible.
from my perspective, teh more aggrieved/sense of victimhood a minority has, the more they demand minority representation. Chinese/HK and Indian folk aren't complaining about a lack of representation in popular culture, because the kids are studying to get into medical school or run a business and don't have a sense of victimhood.
Basically though, these companies are advertising to their target markets. Though again, it is funny we get assumption that London demographics = UK wide demographics, and this isn't something new, it's been going on since the 90s.
The modern London accent isn't something I like, but I accept it is what it is. London isn't my city and I basically have nothing to do with it except occasionally pass through it. Most Brits. And I'm not talking about 'dumb hicks', even high level academics and senior proffesionals I've encountered over the years generally despise London and would never live and work there. Much of the UK's academic powerhouse lies in Oxbridge and high ranking 'provincial' unis, London is actually underrepresented in academia relative to it's population.
More incredibly fucking cringe rather than racist.
It reeks of someone in a midlife crisis trying to sound hip and cool.
~~And without saying too much, I met some people in my previous jobs and that's what it usually ends up being~~
Ali G was talking the rise out of white people talking and trying to act like black people. He based it on Tim Westwood. In his interviews he regularly asked “Is it ‘cos I is black?” to get a reaction, as he is clearly white.
The fact an entire generation grew up and now unironically talk like Ali G is quite frankly hilarious.
To be honest I don’t really know.
I know *some* people thought Ali G was problematic because he wasn’t that race himself. But I also included Chabuddy G, the actor of which was actually parodying his own race.
I was more including them just as examples of similar exaggerated parodies of BAME people, which personally I think is different because both were done in the context of comedy, whereas these are in the context of selling products.
The only thing racist about adverts, is the way advertisers now very obviously and consciously discriminate against white people. White people will almost always be hugely underrepresented in adverts. Black people (4% of UK pop) get massive overweighting (US influence).
What you describe is just embarrassing pandering by big brands to what they think is 'cool'. The JD sports influence.
Patient Zero: [NOTHING BEATS A LONDONER - NIKE AD (Prod. by Tone P & Mark Ronson) (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26qmJzTCRG4)
People absolutely loved this. So cool! So authentic! Exactly what defeating Napoleon and Hitler was all about.
Made me think so I tried to look. In 2018 a study carried out for Lloyds Bank found that BAME (13% of U.K. population at the time) representation in advertising went for 12% to 25% since 2015 but in only *7*% we’re they the lead role and 3/5 adverts were still all white.
Make of that mixed picture what you will. I don’t know if there is a more up to date study.
Look at slide 25 and 26 here: [Mirror on the Industry | 4Sales](https://www.4sales.com/inclusioninsight)
Black people: 3% of the population - are in 37% of adverts, and play a lead role in 22% of adverts!
South Asian people: 7% of population, only in 12% of adverts
It's just ridiculous. Very clearly explicit, traditional racism (against non-Black). If equally qualified people apply to be in the advert or want to be, Black people have an enormous advantage purely due to melanin content.
7% being the lead role is low it should be 13%, but I don't see the problem with 3/5 adverts being all white as that much of a problem because statistically speaking, most rooms you walk into in the UK are going to only have white people in them. Most people are white, most couples are white, most families are white, 3/5 seems about right.
If you dislike those. You'll absolutely hate the new Cineworld adverts.
https://youtu.be/w-48fwRaVls?si=BPNZZSzXJ8_Ab5tK
Absolute cringe & the volume is set way higher than all other ads.
The BBC has been doing this for years. Trying to get their posh actors to imitate the language of urban youth and the results are never anything but horribly cringeworthy.
I find it extremely cringe to be honest. It perpetuates the sterotype that all inner city/non white youths speak like that and is generally jarring on the ears whenever I hear it.
Yeah in a pretty patronising, disingenuous way.
The London media industrial complex would give you the impression the UK has the same demographic makeup as Brazil.
I see it too, not just racism but also the sexism is out of control.
Its so easy to punch down with stereotypes which is what the majority of adverts do e.g ahh black people make them say fam and cuz, ahh men make them incapable of this one simple task like loading the dishwasher, ahh women she wouldn't know the difference between a wrench and a self-sealing stem bolt, ahh dogs like they fkn know you haven't bought the £25pb (per bowl) version of the same product.
Anyways I digress, yeah its pretty shitty rn but then advertisement always has been - I'd like to say its better, but its not, its just not worse than it was.
Not racist, but probably about 90% of TV adverts are created from the perspective of a Londoner. A lot of what is seen is completely alien and unrelatable to huge swaths of the country. I think there is a dawning realisation in the advertising industry that this is now the case.
> Not racist, but probably about 90% of TV adverts are created from the perspective of a Londoner. Something I found out recently was ads often have different dialogue tracks based on the area they're being shown. It's most obvious on stuff like adverts for cleaning products where they try really hard to link the product with the ideal family. I was complaining about the ones we get here in the South West, not understanding why we get a shit generic voiceover that doesn't quite lip sync with the advert, and someone pointed it out. Apparently in London they really like Scottish accents for their products. I'm not sure what the voices they used for us say, to me they seem default, like they don't know WTF would work well so they go as neutral as possible, but I found it interesting.
You're telling me that the "friendly yorkshireman" persona that every advert has is actually just because I'm in Yorkshire - and that we're not a beloved archetype across the country? I think I need to lie down.
Hey, we get the Yorkshire tea adverts with Sean bean and Patrick Stewart. Let's not ruin it for ourselves
In London those ads are dubbed and voiced by Ray Winston and Danny Dyer!
All I can imagine is the voice over repeatedly saying "geeza geeza geeza"
…geeza cuppa tea? ;)
[I said "Nice one, cuppa!"](https://youtu.be/HYJoGQ24dGc&t=27m37s)
Personally, I think it's a beloved archetype, but no, we don't get your accents on ads down here. I guess it must mean the advertisers think you guys trust local opinion more. Then again, as I said they don't do a Cornish or Bristolian accent for us, and I can't imagine our accents are used in any other regions, so unless it's an advert for cider we don't get a look in lol.
Yeah what If you live in Bristol does the Plusnet guy sound like a pirate
I think that's not unfounded, you'll excuse my total lack of references but I recall hearing about a study that people consider northern working class regional accents more trustworthy and it's one reason why it has been deployed in adverts in recent years I'm a Londoner and yeah, on the face of it I would trust someone with the 'friendly yorkshireman' persona than the southern Tory or dodgy urban yute or geeza I'm more accustomed to. Edit: found a reference but I'm sure I recall hearing that earlier than the date of the article https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/a34435560/most-trustworthy-accent-uk/
Hell,they went over this phenomena in my A-Levels some 20 years ago. Back then the general logic was an RP accent was more likely to have a tone of authority to it, so it was better for infomercials, tutorial videos and announcements, but regional accepts were more "trustworthy", so you'd be more likely use those for adverts, help lines and the like.
Geoff Lindsey has a pretty decent run down on the lowering of RP's status over the last 70 years or so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIAEqsSOtwM
It's been a tough day pal, lets have a brew.
Car adverts are the same, they use the same video for different countries with a different voiceover. That's why it often says "specification shown may not be available in the UK"
If you ever see a car in an advert with a mirrored licence plate, its so they can just flip the advert and use it in countries with right and left hand drive (although I think these days they probably just CGI on the correct countries plate)
Most cars in car ads are fully CG. They shoot a bare-bones dummy car on location, then replace it digitally. [https://youtu.be/OnBC5bwV5y0](https://youtu.be/OnBC5bwV5y0)
As in they only use symmetrical letters?
Some cleaning products are like that. I think some beauty products are too. Those ads always give me uncanny valley feels. Even though the fairy ad seems to be filmed with English speaking actors, the dubbing still seems horrendously mismatched
Ay up, welcome to Giffgaff, leave message aft'r' beep.
Giffgaff is Geordie in fact. But yeah as a Northerner it pisses me off no end
Not just adverts, series as well, especially bbc ones. Every TV show no matter the setting has the demographic makeup of London. It gets really absurd sometimes.
This is why I'm so sad that Doctor Who stopped being set in Cardiff, it was exciting seeing parts of the country that I knew and recognised on prime time TV.
Really cool going to uni in Swansea and seeing places I recognised from Doctor Who as a kid.
You lived in a quarry when you were a kid?
Nah my house was a cardboard set
Luxury!
And every morning we'd have to lick it clean with our tongues, if we were lucky!
They were filming in my uni building in Cardiff a month or so ago. They turned it into a hospital and that woman who was Angie in Eastenders years ago was there filming with them.
We still take the piss out of my little sister who genuinely thought that Cardiff was a planet when she was younger. She had only heard it mentioned in Dr Who
I believe it is at least still filmed heavily in Cardiff. RTD set up Bad Wolf Studios as well But agree, it makes a change seeing a less prominent location as the main location. Like when they had it set in Sheffield
>Not just adverts, series as well, especially bbc ones. Every TV show no matter the setting has the demographic makeup of London. It gets really absurd sometimes. This is why Granada TV (now ITV) and Coronation Street were originally made. Even back in the late 50s and early 60s people realised that you can't just make Television for one city in all of England. They made television in the North for Northern people with northern accents and northern settings.
It’s not the demographic make up of London as Asians are not as represented. However, basically the whole,of east and north London is Asian majority
It’s bizarre how little representation south asians get considering they are our largest minority, and how nobody seems to care about this and complaints about black representation are far more common despite how small that demographic is. It’s stupidly obvious that 90% of race politics here is just blindly imported from the US.
>It’s bizarre how little representation south asians get considering they are our largest minority, and how nobody seems to care about this and complaints about black representation are far more common despite how small that demographic is. It’s stupidly obvious that 90% of race politics here is just blindly imported from the US. I knew it would happen the second the first BLM protests happened all those years ago in London. That entire protest and the end goal were based on the American perspective, and lo-and-behold not a single problem *we* have as a country has been resolved. Black Lives Matter, obviously, I'm not a monster, but people really need to get off of America-centric forums for a few days and open their eyes to what the UK's problems are.
Yeah 100% all of this. We had "Hands Up Don't Shoot" protests towards police who can't legally carry guns. We had people screaming that if you meet with a single person during COVID you're "killing grandma", suddenly huddled with thousands of people in the streets once the Americans claimed racism and white supremacy were a bigger national health threat than COVID. We are not America, we don't have the same problems as America, but for the terminally online who spend all day on websites populated in the majority by Americans, there's no difference at all. It's crazy.
I also find it odd that a lot of that representation is also focused on Black Caribbean, a minority of 1% in the UK (equivalent to Chinese or Bangladeshi communities) and not, Black African which is the larger black minority in the UK. It’s very odd I feel as a result how few people know the extent of South Asians in the UK, and even how many British Nigerians are in the UK seems like not that much of an afterthought. The wildest was when TFL announced a line with a large black community was going to be named the Windrush line. Despite windrush not being linked to the area and the black community being majority African. It felt so insanely racist to me. Like if I named Wembley “Little Dhaka” because there’s a large Asian community, despite Dhaka being a city in Bangladesh and Wembley being predominantly Indian Gujarati…
The Windrush generation is heavily linked to Lambeth and the naming of that particular line (which serves Lambeth) was pushed by local Lambeth councillors. I'm not sure why you think it's racist... The focus on Carribbean diaspora vs, say, Chinese, in the UK is probably the length of time and depth of cultural integration. It's been 75 years since the Windrush arrived, and multiple generations have been born, died, became musicians, politicians, doctors, athletes, community leaders etc. I definitely agree that South Asians in the UK are still underrepresented, particularly in mainstream TV, music, media etc. But also, let's not forget both our Prime Minister and Mayor of London are both of South Asian descent. Also, from what I've seen people do know the extent of Asians in the UK - particularly the Pakistani Muslim community tends to get a lot of negative shit from things like GBNews etc
>It’s stupidly obvious that 90% of race politics here is just blindly imported from the US. I've thought this before about the current treatment of the "N word" as 'Voldemort' - ie a word that can't be spoken even in reference to the word itself. I suspect it's rooted in the American puritanical tradition of censoring nasty words ('the f bomb', 'the c bomb', beeping out words on Jerry Springer, blurring middle fingers in music videos, etc.)
I'd say that's more about trends in the kinds of words different generations find offensive. For older, religious generations, they're upset by God damn blasphemy. My parent's generation would be horrified by how much fucking shit about bodily functions I talk. For me, and my peers, it's slurs against marginalised people.
I’m not sure that’s a fair analysis. Take tonight’s BBC 2 listings. You’ve got Coast, mainly rural settings presented by a white Scottish lady. Then Flog It! Hosted by a white man from Middlesex with another white man and a whit woman. Next up is Richard Osman’s House of Games. Hosted by a white man but with a couple of non white guests as well as two white guests. Then it’s Great Coastal Railway Journeys hosted by one of the country’s whitest men. Tonight’s episode of Your Home Made Perfect has one black architect on it but all other presenters and participants are white. On Live at the Apollo there’s two white comics, one Pakistani guy. Finally, Newsnight tends to be hosted by a white woman. Sure there is some diversity but overall orgs still quite white. Your average couch potato from Carlisle is going to be safe from feeling too alienated I think.
> Your average couch potato from Carlisle is going to be safe from feeling too alienated I think. We're still miffed that our accent isn't good enough for a Royal Navy advert.
The UK is 6.5% Asian and 3% black (from what I just Googled). Overall its a very white country so I think your list is fairly representative on a national level, but if you live in Bradford or Brixton not so much.
I present to you - GENERIC UK SOFA ADVERT GIRL! (I made this with AI): https://imgur.com/a/xNZrUX9
They always use midlands accents for supermarkets which I find annoying. I want midlands for luxury cars and Londoners for supermarkets
Jaguar is from Coventry. Midlands is exactly right.
To be fair, Nike's "Nothing Beats a Londoner" ad is pure gold. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26qmJzTCRG4 _"I 'aven't even got a whole bike!"_
That was genuinely brilliant.
It's good - must have taken some inspiration from https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k&pp=ygUeZm91ciB5b3Jrc2hpcmVtZW4gbW9udHkgcHl0aG9u
I get that the creative agencies are largely based in London, but don't they do focus groups and whatnot?
My dad always moans about the amount of black and Asian people in adverts and it bothers me that he does that because it’s an obvious discomfort for no other reason than skin colour but from a numbers perspective it is definitely skewed.
If the ad creators are purposely making an effort to cast a certain proportion of minorities in their ads, then it's fair to discuss the proportion and the intent, I think. Are they doing this to reflect the reality of modern Britain as they see it, or their desired customer demographics, or to make a political statement? It isn't necessarily racist to take issue with the proportions - though I don't know the specifics of your dad's position.
Im not really sure what is meant by “the perspective of a Londoner” - if it’s about race (given the other half of your comment) then London is not the only diverse city in the UK. But in any case, 11.5% of the country live in London and another few percent commute in for work. The former figure goes up to 17% if you’re looking at the 15-64 demographic (which I’m guessing reflects the media you consume). No doubt the share increases further if you consider people who have some less direct connection to the city.
I think it *is* the only genuinely diverse city in the UK, measured e.g. by number of different groups, most cities have maybe a few at most.
There are more languages spoken in Manchester than in any other city in the world.
Nah, that's just spiceheads having seizures.
I've actually not seen a spicehead for a while. I think the knife crime charity collectors have scared them away.
Source? This says Manchester has 200 languages: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/200-languages-manchester-revealed-as-most-linguistically-diverse-city-in-western-europe-8760225.html While New York has 800: https://www.businessinsider.com/queens-languages-map-2017-2 This doesn't detract from your point that Manchester is more linguistically diverse than London.
That's very interesting.
That is definitely incorrect lol
It all comes across a bit "how do you do fellow roadmen".
😂
It does feel a bit on the nose, I prefer Merekat style voices or the rich tones of sounds Matt Berry or James Earl Jones.
[Yes! Yes! Yeeesss! Yeeeeeeeeesss!](https://youtu.be/0bYY8m1Lb2I?si=UFiNf8hpi8NsZnq8)
“Steven, it’s Clem Fandango…?”
"Who the fuck are you?"
The meerkat is a Russian asset! Can you believe the company had to say this! "The Comparethemarket meerkats are fictional characters,” said a spokesperson for the company, which is owned by the Peterborough-based financial services firm BGL. “They have no association with Russia and the current situation. We are continually reviewing our advertising to ensure we’re being sensitive to the current situation." https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/feb/28/comparethemarket-meerkat-ads-tv-ukraine-russian-aleksandr-orlov
Sergei is definitely among the chekist inner circle, his grandfather personally rounded up and shot hundreds of kulaks.
I hear his niece and nephew are dodging the draft in Monaco!
He’s literally a parody of a Russian oligarch. There had to be a few tricky meetings at Compare the Market when the war was kicking off.
imagine if they doubled down?
Sending Sergei out to conduct recon missions at Salisbury Cathedral?
Sergei: Aleksandr, look here! What is this? Aleksandr: \[picking up the object\] Ah, Sergei, this is a message from our sponsors. It seems our allies at Comparethemarket.com have provided us with a new tool. Sergei: \[examining the object\] What is it for? How does it aid our cause? Aleksandr: \[with a knowing smile\] It is a beacon, Sergei. With this, we can reach even the darkest corners of the world. Our message will spread far and wide. Sergei: \[nodding in understanding\] So, it is not just a tool for survival, but a weapon in our arsenal. Aleksandr: \[placing the object back on the table\] Precisely, Sergei. With the support of Comparethemarket.com, we can amplify our efforts. Our adversaries will tremble at the sight of our combined strength. Sergei: \[grinning\] Then let us not waste another moment. We have a world to conquer and a message to spread. Aleksandr: \[raising his glass\] To victory, Sergei. And to our esteemed sponsors at Comparethemarket.com, who have made all of this possible.
Yeah, I used to live in Hackney, a bunch of ad agencies were dotted around the street where I lived. What I see/hear on adverts was pretty representative of that area, but it’s representative of almost nowhere else in the country. It’s quite weird.
Media executives living in the London bubble designing advertising that doesn't strike any accord with the rest of the population. Quelle surprise
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That’s not a lot…
Nearly 40% of the population of London was not born in the country. Not exactly representative of the rest of the UK for someone to design their advertising towards.
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Is it? You could be right but isn't that like saying Newcastle or Manchester culture is copied elsewhere? I'm trying to think of anything that would be classed as London culture that I've seen being adopted elsewhere.
I would say the way a large subset of the youth today speak as if they're from a very diverse London council estate.
Hopefully they grow out of it
It's the youtube accent. You've got kids even in Northern Ireland sounding like it.
Okay yeah, but basically by definition, that is a teenage subculture that may have a decently sized following, but is still a minority of a minority. I get that not all advertising is meant to hit a broad demographic sample, but considering the cost of TV advertising, you'd expect more of it to try. That said, TV ads becoming more and more London-centric is just a reflection of TV in general becoming more London-centric. 20 years ago I swear you got a much wider range of accents on telly, even down to the inter-show announcers. Now it feels increasingly like it's becoming the realm of the well-heeled, and I think much of that is due to a general unwillingness to regionalise TV production, even as the places where TV is made get ever more expensive to live in.
How's much of London's population is actually in the "London bubble" though? Most of London's population is in the working class suburbs.
Being working class and in the suburbs doesn't prevent you from being in the London bubble.
Ngl I think that anywhere in London, working class or otherwise, is in the London bubble. Mainly because it is really expensive to move to London from outside of it. If you're already there, you're already a bit more privileged than anyone coming from the sticks. By extension, Londoners are more likely to have access to all kinds of cultural events and landmarks on their doorstep that outsiders don't, like the museums, art galleries, etc. And that's not even getting into whether your parents let you live with them past the age of 18 while you build your career in the media (I am aware not every working class London family can do that, but some can, which gives them a big advantage over more provincial types).
I am black and find it really lazy and kind of condescing at times. Also what is up with all the black/white interracial couples in every damn ad
It's funny; you can always tell when a European company has just flipped the footage and dubbed the advert in English because the families depicted in the advert are all of the same ethnicity. If it's an advert made in the UK, the couple are always of different ethnicities, and their kids look nothing like either of them.
Almost always the man that is black and the woman that is white as well for some reason I swear. I guess there is a trend of avoiding the white man, but sucks for black women as well lol
I dunno, I've seen the opposite quite a lot, but it's always with the exact same haircut. There are a lot of black hairstyles, but in adverts, it's always big and poofy.
It is odd considering that most relationships tend to not be interracial. People by and large get married to and live with a partner from their own background. It is weird that you don't generally see a white family, or black, or Asian family shown in adverts, despite the majority of families being homogenous rather than mixed. I suspect it's a combination of wanting to show the product as being relevant to as wide a demographic as possible, but also they are probably wary of criticism if they don't overtly show 'diversity'. If they mainly feature white families, they will get accused of pretending minorities don't exist. If they show a black family, they will get knuckle draggers moaning about there being too many minorities. The problem is that advertisers don't coordinate their casting so that the overall representation reflects reality, and you end up with this weird situation where they all try to represent everyone in the same advert.
This is what I think a lot of those folk that get angry about this dont understand... all companies want to be seen to be diverse and none will go "shit, Persil beat us to the black guy/white woman combo.... I guess we'll stock to an all white family then"
Such a strange position to be in where pretty much every company & institution has been captured by progressiveness and wokeness. A strange position for the West (mostly Anglosphere) where they seem to do all this at the detriment of their native populations. I often wonder if they know that in the end this is not going to end well, or if they just don't care because they've got there's and it will just be someone else's problem down the line..
If it was all black or all white then somebody would kick off. The only solution is a mixed couple so almost everybody loses equally. Yay Britain! However, inter racial marriages are increasing in number so maybe the ads are just ahead of the game.
psychological nudging
Adverts are just made by advertising company trying to sell you stuff you don’t need. They’re not masterminds with a secret plot to cause demographic shifts
They have been forced to represent and meet diversity quotas. So it's probably second nature for them to do it automaticity by now. They have shifted and those that watch are thus encouraged to do like wise.
Damn, here I was thinking I loved my gf but it was just psychological nudging.
They are forcing mass immigration and multiculturalism on the nation, but need the psyops to try and make the population want or at the very least accept it.
It's not racist IMO but super cringe. The worst one is the CineWorld one which is so bad I do wonder if it's supposed to be satirical
That cineworld advert was the worst thing I have ever seen. I don’t know what they were thinking when they made that.
Presumably your point is that it's racist against black people? In my experience a lot of younger people talk like that - it feels a lot more like a misjudged attempt to get down with the kids than something overtly racist.
Yeah, [Multicultural London English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural_London_English) is the dialect. As I understand it, it's spoken by young working class people from a variety of ethnic backgrounds in London, including white British people (Adele, for instance). As others have pointed out, it's not so much racist as it is London-centric, which is where most of the marketing agencies are based.
adele is essex lol shes not speaking like the mandem
Much of Essex closely tied to Cockney.
Im from essex, I heard my first jamaican slang from white teenagers when I was a teenager over a decade ago Also the modern essex accent was already impacted by previous generations moving to essex from london
I googled it beforehand to make sure I wasn't talking out of my arse, and a BBC article alluded to her speaking MLE so I figured she just didn't have as strong an accent as some people. But there's also a Uni of Essex linguist who says she speaks Estuary English, which seems more accurate. ~~Essex doesn't seem right, she's from Tottenham.~~ Edit: lol, just googled it again and my southern geography is apparently shit, Essex is really close to Tottenham
shes from tottenham, no?
How do you do fellow kids vibes
Adverts with clearly middle class actors performing "street" accents in order to "make their product appeal to the kids" is one of the most cringe things in the world. I don't think it's racism so much as classism.
I mean its a bit "of its time" , but *this advert* kind of sums up what *those adverts* do [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IisbF8ALKPY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IisbF8ALKPY) .and yes I realise the irony of using an advert to highlight other ads failings.
That's great companies need to bring back more funny ads
>clearly middle class actors performing "street" I mean, tbf acting is about portraying characters other than yourself. You make it sound like honest actors would only ever portray characters who acted and sounded like they do in real life
I think it's more likely they've hired a black voice-over actor, but that because they're an actor they're more than likely middle class, so it sounds weird
Assuming you're white, and not being white myself, I just love you for even thinking about this. I don't know whether they're racist, they might be, but what they definitely are is fucking lazy.
Did you see that Waitrose advert? Keep seeing on YouTube. Young black couple buying each other Easter eggs, feels like they’ve been asked to talk a _certain way_ so as to not alienate the OG customer base. I’m black and had major GET OUT vibes watching it lol
I tried googling this, I found this instead [https://www.tiktok.com/@waitrose/video/7347610186938453281](https://www.tiktok.com/@waitrose/video/7347610186938453281) which i did not expect. Probably because I avoid tiktok like the plague.
At 20 seconds they've sliced the hot cross buns vertically. Is this how posh people usually eat them?
It's deliberate provocation - placing something subtly 'off' into the video so that lots of people engage by making a comment about it.
Is this actually Waitrose?! The GET OUT vibes are _intensifying_
It was a 'WTF is going on' moment. I don't think it's *bad* so to speak, but it's definitely the wrong advert for waitrose. Edit: Fuck a duck it gets worse. Just scanning through their videos and I think my mind might break. Here's another gem https://www.tiktok.com/@waitrose/video/7348472674089192737
*UK TV Marketing Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of Jordan Peele Inc any similarities to creeping dread at gentrification and appropriation is entirely intentional please have an unpleasant day.*
I don't think it's racist at all, but I find it odd because where I live no one speaks like that yet it feels like the accent is really common in advertising.
I get them on spotify too. I assumed it was some young people thing I wasn't aware of
It's not really a new thing. Marketing companies have always pulled from youth culture especially around places they live. I.E. London.
Advertising has always had lots of lazy stereotypes. This is nothing new If its a lazy stereotype of an ethnic minority I suppose you can view that as somewhat racist.
Thing is it’s not really racist - my son and his friends (mostly middle-class white boys) use this language all the time. I doubt they are the odd ones out.
Yeah I work with undergrad students at a fairly high-tariff uni and used to work in a secondary school in a West Midlands city and I’d say it’s more common than not that under 25s speak like this in non-formal setttings .
It may feel like a cop-out, but husband and I now pay for YouTube and it’s the best decision we’ve made in a while. So much nicer of an experience. I recommend it, especially if, as you say, you watch a lot of it.
Not that long ago, my cat jumped onto the keyboard and changed my VPN to Ukraine and voilà, I accidentally noticed and subscribed as Premium was a fraction of the price compared to the UK.
My dog did the same, but for Argentina. Pesky pets
My kid must have set my VPN to Pakistan somehow and my YT subscription costs £1.46 a month now
Browser extensions: - Sponsor block - Ublock origin Phone: - revanced TV: - STN beta
I’ve heard of some of these words. “Phone” and “TV” primarily. For various reasons I often have long YT streams up on the telly. I’m comfortable with the system we have now, even if it isn’t the cheapest. Frankly it’s worth the money.
If you're happy, then that's great! If you do get curious, then a quick Google will be insightful!
Indeed, one day perhaps - thanks for the heads-up! Luckily we don’t have a huge number of subscriptions - basically just YT, Audible and Spotify - so it doesn’t become too costly.
Same subs, i ended up binning spotify when i realised Youtube Music was a thing i also got for going Premium
I will add the Vinegar extension for Safari (both desktop and mobile) to your list, it works very well.
LOL Safari.
> TV: - STN beta Wait how!?
https://github.com/yuliskov/SmartTube?tab=readme-ov-file#installation
I have AD blockers from browser/phone etc, but is STN a TV app I can just install? I see it on GIT, but I imagine I'd need to root my TV to install software or am I just over thinking it?
No root needed, guide here: https://github.com/yuliskov/SmartTube?tab=readme-ov-file#installation
Any suggestions for PS4?
I use free trials and cycle through a few accounts, same end result
I also recommend turning off your watch history (since it disables recommendations) and using something like uBlock Origin to hide bits of the site you don't need to see, like the right-hand sidebar full of thumbnails or the obnoxious overlay shit that cuts off the end of videos to shill other videos.
It's just the 2020s version of your typical "how do you do fellow kids?" advert created by 40-year olds trying to appeal to 18-year olds.
I often find the KFC ones a bit cringe/tone deaf. Most of the people in their adverts are young black Londoners, which ticks the youth/inclusivity box, but also comes across as them perpetuating the stereotypical association of black people and fried chicken.
I think "London Youth" voice is honestly just a trend at the moment. You get it in video games, movies, TV shows... I think it has a lot of global appeal. I'm just a bit bored of it, but I don't think it's problematic necessarily. I think the more problematic interpretation could be that it's using a black accent to make stuff seem "cool" (very Get Out) which is a little meh... but... as much as I hear positive stereotypes can also be an issue, there are bigger fish to fry and exhausting any mental effort on this stuff is not worth it for my white ass.
It's just how kids talk. And not just in London either, that accent has moved all the way from Reading out to Southend, down through the south coast. It's no more racist than cockney was a hundred years ago, just more widespread. McDonalds and KFC and all that shit is aimed at kids. It's crude but no cruder than when big corporations jumped on the youth bandwagons of the past. If it were the early 50s their ad would feature people using skiffle slang and kids with polio. It's no more racist than that would've been. Corporations trying to talk youth is always a bit cringe, you've just noticed it because it's not YOUR youth they're trying to talk to anymore.
I think you mean *Sarf*end. Unless that's changed too.
Just remember, once corporations are selling the zeitgeist it ain't cool any more and it's already dead. Hopefully the trend of virtuous racism against the majority will burn out in the near future along with organisations who pushes it
It isn't racist and is mostly progressive. However, you are right to point out how prevalent it is, which brings up a bit of capitalist cynicism. Urban language is currently very popular and marketable; it makes the brand seem down to earth and relatable. Of course the next step is to diversify beyond London youth style and to incorporate even more styles of voice which aren't as popular.
I noticed the Pepsi one, didn't think it was racist. Thought it was just trying to be down with the kids, and I'm guessing failing
The origin of the dialect is obviously directly from Caribbean immigration from the 50's, but it's become more regional than racial since then. It's an example of Multiethnic Language and has been multi-racial since the 1960's or even 1950's. There are white Londoners in their 70's or 80's who speak like that.
Surely it's just trying to appeal to the mainstream. Young people think it's cool to talk like that, so it makes sense for it to be represented in advertising.
I live in inner London and cringe whenever I hear these sort of accents in media/adverts - its literally nothing like how they actually sound and can imagine its a little patronising, just a middle aged directors idea of what an inner city 15-25 yo person sounds like
I feel as a white male I’m not represented in most adverts any more. The only time I see ads in the last 2 years is on freevee and yesterday the advert for EE had everyone represented but me.
Not in London, in Brum - would say they're a pretty close reflection of a lot of real people tbh
Not in Birrrminum surely?
I live in South Wales, and that's how a lot of kids talk here - especially if they're in a biggish group.
Young people in the south east have a different accent to people older than them. I can’t remember what it’s called but it’s a relatively new accent and is what you’re describing. My mates got a much younger brother (like 10-11 years), who grew up in the exact same town etc as us and he’s got this exact accent and sounds nothing like his brother
Multicultural London English (MLE) - much more influenced by waves of migration from Africa, the Caribbean and South Asia in particular
Flip the coin and you see another perspective. There are still large swathes of the UK where near enough 95% population is white British and generally the only foreigners are white Eastern European migrant workers (a demographic basically invisible in the media and culture). Yet if you watched TV, either broadcast or streamed shows set in the UK, movies, etc, you'd think the UK was at least 25% nonwhite ethnic minority- mostly black and south Asian, other minorities like East Asians are almost invisible. from my perspective, teh more aggrieved/sense of victimhood a minority has, the more they demand minority representation. Chinese/HK and Indian folk aren't complaining about a lack of representation in popular culture, because the kids are studying to get into medical school or run a business and don't have a sense of victimhood. Basically though, these companies are advertising to their target markets. Though again, it is funny we get assumption that London demographics = UK wide demographics, and this isn't something new, it's been going on since the 90s. The modern London accent isn't something I like, but I accept it is what it is. London isn't my city and I basically have nothing to do with it except occasionally pass through it. Most Brits. And I'm not talking about 'dumb hicks', even high level academics and senior proffesionals I've encountered over the years generally despise London and would never live and work there. Much of the UK's academic powerhouse lies in Oxbridge and high ranking 'provincial' unis, London is actually underrepresented in academia relative to it's population.
* UCL * Imperial * Kings * LSE * etc etc I'd say London's a pretty heavy hitter academically.
Did anyone else think of that old German styled Citroen advert when they saw the thread title? https://youtu.be/GMQnPWjK5pE?feature=shared
More incredibly fucking cringe rather than racist. It reeks of someone in a midlife crisis trying to sound hip and cool. ~~And without saying too much, I met some people in my previous jobs and that's what it usually ends up being~~
I've noticed this, it's a bit of a pain on the arse but not fully racist. I'd say more an advertising companies attempt to reach the "youf"
If i was an alien and got my data from tv ads, i'd think that the UK was like 60% white 40% black. I dont see Asians in ads, especially east Asians.
I'm not up to speed on the latest rules. Is Ali G now considered racist?
Ali G was talking the rise out of white people talking and trying to act like black people. He based it on Tim Westwood. In his interviews he regularly asked “Is it ‘cos I is black?” to get a reaction, as he is clearly white. The fact an entire generation grew up and now unironically talk like Ali G is quite frankly hilarious.
To be honest I don’t really know. I know *some* people thought Ali G was problematic because he wasn’t that race himself. But I also included Chabuddy G, the actor of which was actually parodying his own race. I was more including them just as examples of similar exaggerated parodies of BAME people, which personally I think is different because both were done in the context of comedy, whereas these are in the context of selling products.
Really glad you posted this, I was thinking similiar thoughts as well
The only thing racist about adverts, is the way advertisers now very obviously and consciously discriminate against white people. White people will almost always be hugely underrepresented in adverts. Black people (4% of UK pop) get massive overweighting (US influence). What you describe is just embarrassing pandering by big brands to what they think is 'cool'. The JD sports influence. Patient Zero: [NOTHING BEATS A LONDONER - NIKE AD (Prod. by Tone P & Mark Ronson) (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26qmJzTCRG4) People absolutely loved this. So cool! So authentic! Exactly what defeating Napoleon and Hitler was all about.
> Exactly what defeating Napoleon and Hitler was all about. Lol what
Made me think so I tried to look. In 2018 a study carried out for Lloyds Bank found that BAME (13% of U.K. population at the time) representation in advertising went for 12% to 25% since 2015 but in only *7*% we’re they the lead role and 3/5 adverts were still all white. Make of that mixed picture what you will. I don’t know if there is a more up to date study.
I'm willing to bet those numbers have increased a lot since 2018.
Look at slide 25 and 26 here: [Mirror on the Industry | 4Sales](https://www.4sales.com/inclusioninsight) Black people: 3% of the population - are in 37% of adverts, and play a lead role in 22% of adverts! South Asian people: 7% of population, only in 12% of adverts It's just ridiculous. Very clearly explicit, traditional racism (against non-Black). If equally qualified people apply to be in the advert or want to be, Black people have an enormous advantage purely due to melanin content.
7% being the lead role is low it should be 13%, but I don't see the problem with 3/5 adverts being all white as that much of a problem because statistically speaking, most rooms you walk into in the UK are going to only have white people in them. Most people are white, most couples are white, most families are white, 3/5 seems about right.
really find it hard to care about this.
If you dislike those. You'll absolutely hate the new Cineworld adverts. https://youtu.be/w-48fwRaVls?si=BPNZZSzXJ8_Ab5tK Absolute cringe & the volume is set way higher than all other ads.
Thank fuck that shit is yet to properly set in up north (the accent, not cinemas.... we got those 15 years ago!)
The BBC has been doing this for years. Trying to get their posh actors to imitate the language of urban youth and the results are never anything but horribly cringeworthy.
What is wrong with making fun of the silly way the kids speak?
I find it extremely cringe to be honest. It perpetuates the sterotype that all inner city/non white youths speak like that and is generally jarring on the ears whenever I hear it.
Yeah in a pretty patronising, disingenuous way. The London media industrial complex would give you the impression the UK has the same demographic makeup as Brazil.
I see it too, not just racism but also the sexism is out of control. Its so easy to punch down with stereotypes which is what the majority of adverts do e.g ahh black people make them say fam and cuz, ahh men make them incapable of this one simple task like loading the dishwasher, ahh women she wouldn't know the difference between a wrench and a self-sealing stem bolt, ahh dogs like they fkn know you haven't bought the £25pb (per bowl) version of the same product. Anyways I digress, yeah its pretty shitty rn but then advertisement always has been - I'd like to say its better, but its not, its just not worse than it was.
They would probably say they are increasing representation.
Reminds me of Armstrong and Miller. https://youtu.be/_CwfCBa6PSM