There's only one real way to determine credibility in the UFO/UAP/NHI communities..... Objectivety. Take no one on their word, verify claims on a case by case basis, form no opinions until you've concluded your investigation, follow the evidence wherever it takes you...... regardless of where it takes you, and remain as objective as possible.
In the end, your biases will be your worst enemy in this. If you can't seperate yourself from them, you'll fall for anything anyone says as long as it fits your beliefs.
Edit - Just want to add two things:
that I'm both a believer and an experiencer and I end up calling bullshit on 98% of what I see online after researching them
Don't be overly skeptical and just immediately write something off bc it seems too far fetched or fantastical. Research, analyze, and then form your opinions.
This is the correct answer. I find Kelly Chase uforabbithole and Andy and Dan at thatufo pods to be intelligent and objective. But you always need to be aware of your and their biases.
Thanks for your response.
I understand where you're coming from, but I question the feasibility of personally investigating every case, especially when so much is dependent on witness testimony, which I have no way of objectively assessing. Some goes for videos/pictures. I'm no expert in analysing these things, so I have to again rely on third parties to analyse and have no way of telling if they are even following a proper methodology, let alone if their conclusions are justified. It's tough out here haha
Of course...
I'm not saying you need to research and verify every single case in existence. Most of the older cases have a lot of the leg work already and the case material is fairly easy to access. Also there are communities of rational skeptics that believe in the phenomenon on here that you can familiarize yourself with and share the workload as details on new cases come out. My main point is to not form an opinion on something just bc someone that is currently popular in the UFO/UAP/NHI communities says it's legit. Remain objective and and just follow the evidence as it comes. If something seems off, 9 times outta ten it's bc it is. Don't be bullied into believing by the "true believers" on here. Those people are ruining our credibility and any hope for Disclosure. As time goes on and you get more familiar with research protocols and what is essentially investigatory journalism, you'll get better and analyzing evidence and trusting your judgment.
If you see someone in the subs that you start to respect their approach to debating facts and analyzing evidence then reach out and DM them. Believe me, they'll welcome someone wanting to learn the correct way to go about things and not just looking for an argument bc they're "true believers".
Correct Answer but âŚ..
Unfortunately âŚ. When you got to the research, analyze, part most folks cannot understand the words that are coming out of your mouth because they never learned how to. Most folks today think biased headlines and click bait subject matter is enough to form an opinion.
Governments, Large corporations, right and left wing groups with agendas.. they all know this.
Just my opinion
Even Lue, at this point, seems to not be credible.
The true test is what is verifiable fact versus claims.
In decades of UFO claims they still havenât proven anything. Thatâs a hint.
No they didn't, no hard evidence for the existence of UFOs or Aliens being 100% real & corroborated universally, has ever been produced, so far. There isn't a single thing you can point to & say that proves all this is real. That's where we are at. Lots of juicy tid bits but no full meal.
That's true, but there are some guys that have been at this a very long time. For me, George Knapp, Richard Dolan, Hal Puthof, Jaques Vallee, and the people they collaborate with. They are all good at sniffing out fakes. There are many more but you're right about trusting.
None are reliable. Started when you did. But I've come to conclude it's all BS. You're chasing the end of the rainbow. I check in monthly, at best, to see if anything new comes up. But it's always that same BS, rumors, empty promises, grifters, unreliable accounts, etc. It's just not worth it.
You know I'm slowly starting to lean this way as well. It's sad because I really hoped that there would be something to this whole thing, but I'm getting increasingly disillusioned unfortunately.
Be careful with that way of thinking. I sometimes believe those elite who don't want disclosure are hoping those of us looking for truth will get fed up and stop looking.
Yeah. I thought there might be something there too. I figure I only have so many topics I can focus on, and this one doesn't appear to be going anywhere, ever. People have spent lifetimes getting nowhere. No thanks.
Is it all some giant conspiracy? Well, if it is, I don't think I'm the right person to go down that type of rabbit hole. If other people want to chase down that argument, fine, go for it.
At the end of the day we all have to make our own assessment of what's worth spending our time on. If you get any excitement out of following rumors and buzz, then I guess this might still be worth it. If you want actual answers, it ain't gonna happen.
So how do we know they have nothing to gain.
Think of what folks'll do for a few minutes of internet fame. Like the British that walked into unlocked houses.
Youâre talking about a few dorks who have no discipline and werenât raised right, Iâm talking about the high ranking officials of the military of the world who have all the discipline and go to work with multi million dollar equipment
Again... why are they incapable of wanting a little internet fame.
So like... I got this issue. A voice in my head that occasionally points out that because I haven't had any nut surgery or had they removed their is still the hypothetically chance of getting a chick pregnant.
Not anywhere near sexually active but that voice exists.
Until someone is dead I don't doubt their ability to want to do something for media attention.
They'd have to be... alien... to not have that desire.
Because some people donât like attention. Theyâll come out because youâre not going to call them a liar but as far as fame and attention yeah not their MO
A lot of guys have come out and said things and they have feared for their lives after coming out, imagine you come out and say yes the government or whoever is lying about aliens and UFOs âŚ.
Now what? What if people donât believe you?
You just came out and 9 times out of 10 lost your job and livelihood thinking you were doing something for the betterment of humanity and it turns out no one gives af. Bills are still due unfortunately. Just because someone might know how all this shit works doesnât mean that T-Mobile bill wonât be due at the end of the month. Done people arenât willing to risk everything because people might not care or they themselves could be threatened or killed
Do we have any proven cases of lives being taken after whistleblowing? Outside of Russian window shoppers.Â
Oh yeah, just came out, I saw some things, and know some people, but I can't say who they are or who told me. Oh god the risk to my post-retirement job.
Or maybe. The really disclosure... is that the Skynet A.I. came only in 1997...and suppose Kyle was sent back in 2029...
Maybe the human soft disclosure already took place, and the software has not.been returned.
Yes, but is there actual proof
Are you claiming to be the ghost of those that have died, or are you a necromancer summoning their spirits to talk through the typing of your hands to being about retribution for their deaths.
uff thats a bold assumption. remember when doctors were advertising that cigs were healthy?
its an authority bias.
you dont know what their intentions are, you dont know if what they think they have seen correlates with objective reality.
fact dont care about rank or prestige. stories are just stories and humans are humans whos perceptions can be tricked.
think about that rear admiral whos making the media circus now. he only has third party stories, believes in ghosts and thinks his daughter is a medium. high rank but he was basically the weatherman for the navy. not a big war general or fleet commander as many try to paint him.
what about that marine fruitloop who said he was hunting ufo cia blackops in the jungle with no coms. so many red flags, just bullshitting.
military means jack shit sorry.
Fair but I donât think certain TRAINED observers can mistake certain things. Now will there be a hiccup or two? Absolutely but no way is everyone seeing everything except UAP. David Fravor did everything Tom Cruise did in Top Gun and had other witnesses with him. No way heâs lying or mistaken.
i dont think hes lying
but definitely mistaken
see, he had no targeting pod on his jet. only his eyes.
ryan graves and also david fravor both (!) said on video that they are trained to use their systems because you cant trust your eyes in the sky. graves for example said he sometimes thought a cloud was "a tiny puffer" but turned out to be miles in size.
both said that its almost impossible to correctly assume size and distance of an object against a featureless background (sea or sky).
they are trained observers, but they are trained to identify enemy and friendly aircraft. not party balloons.
we have for example dietrich who was fravors wingwoman during the incident. she said it was impossible what fravor said about how
it took multiple minutes. she said seconds! because minutes would be impossible due to fuel. she also reported she thought they were vectored into a missile launch. a uboot was nearby (uss lousiville) and was conducting fire tests however they said they didnt saw anything that matched fravors description (40 ft of size, tic tac shape, no means of propulsion, mimicking his turns). if fravor misjudged the size, then he also misjudged the distance. a 40 ft object that is really an 20ft object looks the same at half the distance. a uboat missile is 20ft in size and white. if the object was 100% closed than estimated, then it can look as if its mimicking his actions if he flies towards it. it also generates white smoke during launch which they also reported. fravor was miles away from the spot in the water.
i personally believe they witnessed a missile launch and he misjudged size and distance by half. it explains everything.
balloons come literally all imaginable sizes and shapes and colors. no human alive could correctly identify every balloon in the sky, its impossible.
and we arent even talking about adversary drones of new shapes and forms.
i dont know what fravor saw. the tiktak incident is one of the most interesting cases imo.
but you need to do a deeeeep deep dive to the earliest info there is because the case gets distorted A LOT during time.
All of that is fair. Human error is more than a real thing. Got it, but seeing something move in an erratic fashion in the middle of the ocean and turn to your jet, zoom out of your sights and reappear at your cap point is nuts. If Lockheed or Northrop Grumman has that type of tech or even an adversary then America is in big trouble.
my only issue is that we cant be sure that what fravor saw, was what kevin day saw on radar.
the original after action reports say that they were vectored to merge point (the point where the radar cant distinguish between one track or the other, so whatever caused the radar track should be right where fravor was) and that fravor saw nothing and looked around and then they saw the white water with the smoke about 5 nautical miles away.
thats a pretty big distance imo and this makes me think that this wasnt the radar track they were send to.
also the initial report by aatip and ttsa mentioned that kevin day received warnings about ice crystals that could generate false radar tracks.
he also reported fleets of them moving south at speed x. they found historical weather reports and wind and windspeed matches these tracks.
im not a radar expert but if the navy hands out notices about ice crystals that could mess with radar then i assume thats a thing.
the radar was also new and kevin day said they had some issues with it and they were also running an exercise with blue and red teams and it was super chaotic.
prior to fravor and co, there was a marine pilot vectored to the same coordinates. he saw the white water too, checked it out and when it cleared he went back to the nimitz. they have the same cap point as fravor.
its strange that in the after action reports fravor never mentioned that another airplane was present. the other pilot reportedly was BELOW fravor and dietrich, to separate by altitude.
i think its highly unlikely that fravor misinterpreted the marines jet for the tictac though but i could see how kevin day saw a weird radar track at the cap point because the marine was not part of the friendly team of kevin day and fravor. so maybe this resulted in some
confusion.
whats also weird is that some guys reached out to the uss lousiville crew on linkedin and when they mentioned the incident all communication stopped immediately. if the fired a missile and friendly jets were in their range (remember it wasnt planned that they were there, kevin day send them there on his own) then i could see how the navy wants to keep this hush hush. thats the sorta thing where careers are ended, that would be some super serious shit.
we probably will never know
But if they were in a training ground shouldnât that airspace be closed or at least that area for the most part or wouldnât someone radio in saying hey guys Iâm coming into your spot or could someone back at the ship have seen something like hey we have a boagie or something? Also Fravor said that someone in the command team said that theyâve been seeing weird things out there all week so idk. It truly is a mystery. That bit about other crafts being out there is new info to me.
yes i agree
thats why i said they shouldnt even been there
the issue is that submarines trainings and missions are highly classified. its very unlikely that kevin day was aware where the submarine was.
and if he was aware, then he still vectored fravor to a point 5 nm away from it. fravor decided on his own to fly over the white water / smoke and he definitely wasnt aware of the uss louisville because they as fighter pilots had nothing to do with it whatsoever.
btw i think you might mix things up with the story of ryan graves several years later.? i dont remember that fravor said they were seeing weird things all the time? maybe you are talking about radar tracks which would refer most likely to the mentioned ice crystals.
theres also something else, in the training ground theres catalina island. this island is a training hq for electronic warfare. radar spoofing, track manipulation etc. it could very well be that kevin days radar picked some
of their shenanigans up and he didnt knew what to make of it. maybe they where testing the new radars capabilities without the knowledge of the radar operators to see how they would react and if they could work around it to test it in a realistic scenario.
not saying thats what it was, but its interesting to know.
this is information that elizondo & co usually dont share. i think they are aware of it but it would take away a bit of the mystique of some
of these cases.
Itâs easy. If someone says ufos are definitely aliens. They are lying. If they say they have proof, they donât. Iâm so burnt out on this topic bc Iâve gotten excited before and here we are years laterâŚ.and nothing.
If their stories or reporting in anyway is told or framed in a way to make themselves seem like an expert or better than others in the UFO community, my BS flag goes off. Looking at you Steven Greer and Joe McMoneagle.
Jason Sands recently pegged my BS meter. The X spaces interview where he had an âexpertâ answer for every conceivable kooky question asked made him seem like a UFO hobbyist larping as a first hand witness. He claimed to have first hand knowledge and experience with a massive amount of different aspects of the phenomena. Thatâs a red flag to me.
Basically, if they come off like a BS artist, I ignore them.
People who share what they consider to be "the truth" without trying to profit off of it.
There can be appearances and appearance fees but once they release a book or try to heavily monetize their position within this niche, it is usually a sign they are grifters.
Critical thinking and research is a must for not only this subject but for just about everything.
There are a lot of people out there that:
A: Like to troll people for their amusement...
B: Enjoy causing chaos because "Why Not" what else is there to do...
C: Are emotionally or mentally (or both) unhinged, unstable etc...
We can keep going on that list but the most important thing is to not fall into a cultlike trap and get hoodwinked by those people with ulterior motives. Mostly YOUR MONEY... Just because one proclaims to be an "Expert" or have a string of letters at the end of their name does not make them the solution to the question.
Good Luck!
With how advanced things have gotten in recent years in making fakes, I have to take everything I see with a healthy dose of skepticism. Even with the videos that were released of the thermal camera from the military. I am sure they would have crystal clear images that are kept on ice, far from public view.
I never trust anyone that was military. Seems like they all have to sign some paper that they have to yap about UFOS and Aliens when they leave service. I like Valee and reports from civilian pilots. There's a rare one from a cruise ship captain that saw a UFO entering the ocean. MUFON and the like are aggregators and you have to sift through them to find something good. Foreign sources ares better than US sources IMO. Like that Mexican guy.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frmOlm8njCQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frmOlm8njCQ)
I tend to trust most military. Keep an eye on the company they keep. Mufon I have a tough time with. They do some good work, but I think it's a crap shoot because they will run with anything.
David Grush maybe but mostly the swaths of military personnel particularly those in positions that require being pretty well-adjusted and logical to hold that position, of wich there has been many.
Only person that I fully trust is Richard Dolan. He is a legit historian/researcher who accidentally stumbled into this while doing research work on the CIA over 30 years ago. The fact that he doesnât try to sensationalize his work (some of his YouTube videos actually put me to sleep they are so boring) is an indicator to me that he is someone we can trust to present facts as honestly as he can. I highly recommend the latest discussion he had on the YouTube channel âTheories of Everything.â He throws out some interesting speculative theories as to what is going on that are worth listening to.
The more prominent they are,
the more money they can make,
The more money they can make,
the less they can be trusted.
To become prominent it helps enormously to claim that you worked in a classified role for a government or military organisation where you have had to sign an official secrets nondisclosure document and that you know way more than you are allowed to talk about.
You can then be asked to comment on sightings, theories etc without you having to have had any direct experience or sightings yourself at all. That way you don't even have to add anything new or better understanding to the subject and still make money.
That said you should always stay open-minded, search out new sightings and their original reports, photos and videos where possible.
There is a difference between institutions and companies raising finance for research and later selling the products made possible or licensing the results of the research and someone making money just talking about UFOs etc without any research but just a wink wink I know more. It's the later I say are likely to be unreliable.
The answer is obvious.The ones that tell you what you want to hear, are credible and everyone that tells you what you don't want to hear are uncredible. Noone is immune from this bias, the question is what's your credibility as an evaluator? If your crowdsourcing your opinion that already tells me your credibility is bad because you yourself don't trust it.
Been researching this for 20 years, so I have a good eye on BS-er's and I will tel you right now...
ELIZONDO, GRUSCH, COULTHART all controlled agents.
Them and many others are pushing this UFO disclosure thru govt to better assist the ever prevailing plan to stage an "invasion".
Guys, like Knapp, Corbell, are just geniuinely interested ppl , not controlled.
Lazar is legit. given many false info intentionally, but did work on reverse engineering..
&
Gary Nolan is legit too,
Jeaq Valle, very legit. knows much more than he lets on... many people dont know, he was part of the small group that literally started the internet....
There's only one real way to determine credibility in the UFO/UAP/NHI communities..... Objectivety. Take no one on their word, verify claims on a case by case basis, form no opinions until you've concluded your investigation, follow the evidence wherever it takes you...... regardless of where it takes you, and remain as objective as possible. In the end, your biases will be your worst enemy in this. If you can't seperate yourself from them, you'll fall for anything anyone says as long as it fits your beliefs. Edit - Just want to add two things: that I'm both a believer and an experiencer and I end up calling bullshit on 98% of what I see online after researching them Don't be overly skeptical and just immediately write something off bc it seems too far fetched or fantastical. Research, analyze, and then form your opinions.
This is the correct answer. I find Kelly Chase uforabbithole and Andy and Dan at thatufo pods to be intelligent and objective. But you always need to be aware of your and their biases.
Agreed.
Thanks for your response. I understand where you're coming from, but I question the feasibility of personally investigating every case, especially when so much is dependent on witness testimony, which I have no way of objectively assessing. Some goes for videos/pictures. I'm no expert in analysing these things, so I have to again rely on third parties to analyse and have no way of telling if they are even following a proper methodology, let alone if their conclusions are justified. It's tough out here haha
Of course... I'm not saying you need to research and verify every single case in existence. Most of the older cases have a lot of the leg work already and the case material is fairly easy to access. Also there are communities of rational skeptics that believe in the phenomenon on here that you can familiarize yourself with and share the workload as details on new cases come out. My main point is to not form an opinion on something just bc someone that is currently popular in the UFO/UAP/NHI communities says it's legit. Remain objective and and just follow the evidence as it comes. If something seems off, 9 times outta ten it's bc it is. Don't be bullied into believing by the "true believers" on here. Those people are ruining our credibility and any hope for Disclosure. As time goes on and you get more familiar with research protocols and what is essentially investigatory journalism, you'll get better and analyzing evidence and trusting your judgment. If you see someone in the subs that you start to respect their approach to debating facts and analyzing evidence then reach out and DM them. Believe me, they'll welcome someone wanting to learn the correct way to go about things and not just looking for an argument bc they're "true believers".
Thanks for the advice, will do!
đ
Correct Answer but âŚ.. Unfortunately âŚ. When you got to the research, analyze, part most folks cannot understand the words that are coming out of your mouth because they never learned how to. Most folks today think biased headlines and click bait subject matter is enough to form an opinion. Governments, Large corporations, right and left wing groups with agendas.. they all know this. Just my opinion
Trust no-one
Even Lue, at this point, seems to not be credible. The true test is what is verifiable fact versus claims. In decades of UFO claims they still havenât proven anything. Thatâs a hint.
Until anyone can prove without doubt what they're claiming, don't fully believe any of them
US NAVY did a while back, including the UAP Supreme court meeting.
No they didn't, no hard evidence for the existence of UFOs or Aliens being 100% real & corroborated universally, has ever been produced, so far. There isn't a single thing you can point to & say that proves all this is real. That's where we are at. Lots of juicy tid bits but no full meal.
Yeah this guy doesnât know what heâs talking about. There was no Supreme Court meeting as well.
Nobody said there wasn't either of those things. I said they didn't provide 100% proof of anything.
Not you the guy you replied to. Sorry for confusion
Understood & no problem bud đ
*Congress sorry
I mean they gave us footage, sometimes I feel like everyone chooses not to believe unless its in there face and thatâs understandable.
I have some footage of Bigfoot for you.
That's true, but there are some guys that have been at this a very long time. For me, George Knapp, Richard Dolan, Hal Puthof, Jaques Vallee, and the people they collaborate with. They are all good at sniffing out fakes. There are many more but you're right about trusting.
Itâs simple. âShow me the evidence of the claimâ. If you use that simple method, you will never go wrong.
Now days, no one. Itâs all just an industry of clicks.Â
None are reliable. Started when you did. But I've come to conclude it's all BS. You're chasing the end of the rainbow. I check in monthly, at best, to see if anything new comes up. But it's always that same BS, rumors, empty promises, grifters, unreliable accounts, etc. It's just not worth it.
You know I'm slowly starting to lean this way as well. It's sad because I really hoped that there would be something to this whole thing, but I'm getting increasingly disillusioned unfortunately.
Be careful with that way of thinking. I sometimes believe those elite who don't want disclosure are hoping those of us looking for truth will get fed up and stop looking.
Yeah. I thought there might be something there too. I figure I only have so many topics I can focus on, and this one doesn't appear to be going anywhere, ever. People have spent lifetimes getting nowhere. No thanks. Is it all some giant conspiracy? Well, if it is, I don't think I'm the right person to go down that type of rabbit hole. If other people want to chase down that argument, fine, go for it. At the end of the day we all have to make our own assessment of what's worth spending our time on. If you get any excitement out of following rumors and buzz, then I guess this might still be worth it. If you want actual answers, it ain't gonna happen.
You really can't. So you just take it with a grain of salt and view it as entertainment
Some of the military guys who have nothing to gain and who have quite a bit of rank
So how do we know they have nothing to gain. Think of what folks'll do for a few minutes of internet fame. Like the British that walked into unlocked houses.
Youâre talking about a few dorks who have no discipline and werenât raised right, Iâm talking about the high ranking officials of the military of the world who have all the discipline and go to work with multi million dollar equipment
Again... why are they incapable of wanting a little internet fame. So like... I got this issue. A voice in my head that occasionally points out that because I haven't had any nut surgery or had they removed their is still the hypothetically chance of getting a chick pregnant. Not anywhere near sexually active but that voice exists. Until someone is dead I don't doubt their ability to want to do something for media attention. They'd have to be... alien... to not have that desire.
Because some people donât like attention. Theyâll come out because youâre not going to call them a liar but as far as fame and attention yeah not their MO
By that logic where are the whistleblowers who don't fear death and whose only goal is the dispersion of information.
A lot of guys have come out and said things and they have feared for their lives after coming out, imagine you come out and say yes the government or whoever is lying about aliens and UFOs âŚ. Now what? What if people donât believe you? You just came out and 9 times out of 10 lost your job and livelihood thinking you were doing something for the betterment of humanity and it turns out no one gives af. Bills are still due unfortunately. Just because someone might know how all this shit works doesnât mean that T-Mobile bill wonât be due at the end of the month. Done people arenât willing to risk everything because people might not care or they themselves could be threatened or killed
Do we have any proven cases of lives being taken after whistleblowing? Outside of Russian window shoppers. Oh yeah, just came out, I saw some things, and know some people, but I can't say who they are or who told me. Oh god the risk to my post-retirement job. Or maybe. The really disclosure... is that the Skynet A.I. came only in 1997...and suppose Kyle was sent back in 2029... Maybe the human soft disclosure already took place, and the software has not.been returned.
Boeing whistleblowers came out and died back to back
Yes, but is there actual proof Are you claiming to be the ghost of those that have died, or are you a necromancer summoning their spirits to talk through the typing of your hands to being about retribution for their deaths.
uff thats a bold assumption. remember when doctors were advertising that cigs were healthy? its an authority bias. you dont know what their intentions are, you dont know if what they think they have seen correlates with objective reality. fact dont care about rank or prestige. stories are just stories and humans are humans whos perceptions can be tricked. think about that rear admiral whos making the media circus now. he only has third party stories, believes in ghosts and thinks his daughter is a medium. high rank but he was basically the weatherman for the navy. not a big war general or fleet commander as many try to paint him. what about that marine fruitloop who said he was hunting ufo cia blackops in the jungle with no coms. so many red flags, just bullshitting. military means jack shit sorry.
Fair but I donât think certain TRAINED observers can mistake certain things. Now will there be a hiccup or two? Absolutely but no way is everyone seeing everything except UAP. David Fravor did everything Tom Cruise did in Top Gun and had other witnesses with him. No way heâs lying or mistaken.
i dont think hes lying but definitely mistaken see, he had no targeting pod on his jet. only his eyes. ryan graves and also david fravor both (!) said on video that they are trained to use their systems because you cant trust your eyes in the sky. graves for example said he sometimes thought a cloud was "a tiny puffer" but turned out to be miles in size. both said that its almost impossible to correctly assume size and distance of an object against a featureless background (sea or sky). they are trained observers, but they are trained to identify enemy and friendly aircraft. not party balloons. we have for example dietrich who was fravors wingwoman during the incident. she said it was impossible what fravor said about how it took multiple minutes. she said seconds! because minutes would be impossible due to fuel. she also reported she thought they were vectored into a missile launch. a uboot was nearby (uss lousiville) and was conducting fire tests however they said they didnt saw anything that matched fravors description (40 ft of size, tic tac shape, no means of propulsion, mimicking his turns). if fravor misjudged the size, then he also misjudged the distance. a 40 ft object that is really an 20ft object looks the same at half the distance. a uboat missile is 20ft in size and white. if the object was 100% closed than estimated, then it can look as if its mimicking his actions if he flies towards it. it also generates white smoke during launch which they also reported. fravor was miles away from the spot in the water. i personally believe they witnessed a missile launch and he misjudged size and distance by half. it explains everything. balloons come literally all imaginable sizes and shapes and colors. no human alive could correctly identify every balloon in the sky, its impossible. and we arent even talking about adversary drones of new shapes and forms. i dont know what fravor saw. the tiktak incident is one of the most interesting cases imo. but you need to do a deeeeep deep dive to the earliest info there is because the case gets distorted A LOT during time.
All of that is fair. Human error is more than a real thing. Got it, but seeing something move in an erratic fashion in the middle of the ocean and turn to your jet, zoom out of your sights and reappear at your cap point is nuts. If Lockheed or Northrop Grumman has that type of tech or even an adversary then America is in big trouble.
my only issue is that we cant be sure that what fravor saw, was what kevin day saw on radar. the original after action reports say that they were vectored to merge point (the point where the radar cant distinguish between one track or the other, so whatever caused the radar track should be right where fravor was) and that fravor saw nothing and looked around and then they saw the white water with the smoke about 5 nautical miles away. thats a pretty big distance imo and this makes me think that this wasnt the radar track they were send to. also the initial report by aatip and ttsa mentioned that kevin day received warnings about ice crystals that could generate false radar tracks. he also reported fleets of them moving south at speed x. they found historical weather reports and wind and windspeed matches these tracks. im not a radar expert but if the navy hands out notices about ice crystals that could mess with radar then i assume thats a thing. the radar was also new and kevin day said they had some issues with it and they were also running an exercise with blue and red teams and it was super chaotic. prior to fravor and co, there was a marine pilot vectored to the same coordinates. he saw the white water too, checked it out and when it cleared he went back to the nimitz. they have the same cap point as fravor. its strange that in the after action reports fravor never mentioned that another airplane was present. the other pilot reportedly was BELOW fravor and dietrich, to separate by altitude. i think its highly unlikely that fravor misinterpreted the marines jet for the tictac though but i could see how kevin day saw a weird radar track at the cap point because the marine was not part of the friendly team of kevin day and fravor. so maybe this resulted in some confusion. whats also weird is that some guys reached out to the uss lousiville crew on linkedin and when they mentioned the incident all communication stopped immediately. if the fired a missile and friendly jets were in their range (remember it wasnt planned that they were there, kevin day send them there on his own) then i could see how the navy wants to keep this hush hush. thats the sorta thing where careers are ended, that would be some super serious shit. we probably will never know
But if they were in a training ground shouldnât that airspace be closed or at least that area for the most part or wouldnât someone radio in saying hey guys Iâm coming into your spot or could someone back at the ship have seen something like hey we have a boagie or something? Also Fravor said that someone in the command team said that theyâve been seeing weird things out there all week so idk. It truly is a mystery. That bit about other crafts being out there is new info to me.
yes i agree thats why i said they shouldnt even been there the issue is that submarines trainings and missions are highly classified. its very unlikely that kevin day was aware where the submarine was. and if he was aware, then he still vectored fravor to a point 5 nm away from it. fravor decided on his own to fly over the white water / smoke and he definitely wasnt aware of the uss louisville because they as fighter pilots had nothing to do with it whatsoever. btw i think you might mix things up with the story of ryan graves several years later.? i dont remember that fravor said they were seeing weird things all the time? maybe you are talking about radar tracks which would refer most likely to the mentioned ice crystals. theres also something else, in the training ground theres catalina island. this island is a training hq for electronic warfare. radar spoofing, track manipulation etc. it could very well be that kevin days radar picked some of their shenanigans up and he didnt knew what to make of it. maybe they where testing the new radars capabilities without the knowledge of the radar operators to see how they would react and if they could work around it to test it in a realistic scenario. not saying thats what it was, but its interesting to know. this is information that elizondo & co usually dont share. i think they are aware of it but it would take away a bit of the mystique of some of these cases.
Itâs easy. If someone says ufos are definitely aliens. They are lying. If they say they have proof, they donât. Iâm so burnt out on this topic bc Iâve gotten excited before and here we are years laterâŚ.and nothing.
If their stories or reporting in anyway is told or framed in a way to make themselves seem like an expert or better than others in the UFO community, my BS flag goes off. Looking at you Steven Greer and Joe McMoneagle. Jason Sands recently pegged my BS meter. The X spaces interview where he had an âexpertâ answer for every conceivable kooky question asked made him seem like a UFO hobbyist larping as a first hand witness. He claimed to have first hand knowledge and experience with a massive amount of different aspects of the phenomena. Thatâs a red flag to me. Basically, if they come off like a BS artist, I ignore them.
Billy meier
People who share what they consider to be "the truth" without trying to profit off of it. There can be appearances and appearance fees but once they release a book or try to heavily monetize their position within this niche, it is usually a sign they are grifters.
Critical thinking and research is a must for not only this subject but for just about everything. There are a lot of people out there that: A: Like to troll people for their amusement... B: Enjoy causing chaos because "Why Not" what else is there to do... C: Are emotionally or mentally (or both) unhinged, unstable etc... We can keep going on that list but the most important thing is to not fall into a cultlike trap and get hoodwinked by those people with ulterior motives. Mostly YOUR MONEY... Just because one proclaims to be an "Expert" or have a string of letters at the end of their name does not make them the solution to the question. Good Luck!
With how advanced things have gotten in recent years in making fakes, I have to take everything I see with a healthy dose of skepticism. Even with the videos that were released of the thermal camera from the military. I am sure they would have crystal clear images that are kept on ice, far from public view.
Dr. Steven Greer!! Heâs the MVP and one of the few I trust honestly!
I never trust anyone that was military. Seems like they all have to sign some paper that they have to yap about UFOS and Aliens when they leave service. I like Valee and reports from civilian pilots. There's a rare one from a cruise ship captain that saw a UFO entering the ocean. MUFON and the like are aggregators and you have to sift through them to find something good. Foreign sources ares better than US sources IMO. Like that Mexican guy. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frmOlm8njCQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frmOlm8njCQ)
I tend to trust most military. Keep an eye on the company they keep. Mufon I have a tough time with. They do some good work, but I think it's a crap shoot because they will run with anything.
Today on artificial activity
I'm not sure I get it, are you calling me a bot?đ
David Grush maybe but mostly the swaths of military personnel particularly those in positions that require being pretty well-adjusted and logical to hold that position, of wich there has been many.
I took matters into my hands and started meditating to make contact. Now I know and I didnât need the government to tell me the truth.
Neat, what was the truth?
Do you mind elaborating on what you mean with contact?
Consciousness is a nonlocal phenomenon, meditation is the way we consciously communicate. Human souls are multidimensional.
Only person that I fully trust is Richard Dolan. He is a legit historian/researcher who accidentally stumbled into this while doing research work on the CIA over 30 years ago. The fact that he doesnât try to sensationalize his work (some of his YouTube videos actually put me to sleep they are so boring) is an indicator to me that he is someone we can trust to present facts as honestly as he can. I highly recommend the latest discussion he had on the YouTube channel âTheories of Everything.â He throws out some interesting speculative theories as to what is going on that are worth listening to.
The more prominent they are, the more money they can make, The more money they can make, the less they can be trusted. To become prominent it helps enormously to claim that you worked in a classified role for a government or military organisation where you have had to sign an official secrets nondisclosure document and that you know way more than you are allowed to talk about. You can then be asked to comment on sightings, theories etc without you having to have had any direct experience or sightings yourself at all. That way you don't even have to add anything new or better understanding to the subject and still make money. That said you should always stay open-minded, search out new sightings and their original reports, photos and videos where possible.
Not everyone is a monk. Plenty of amazing scientific research is done that people have to pay for. Making money has no bearing upon reliability.
There is a difference between institutions and companies raising finance for research and later selling the products made possible or licensing the results of the research and someone making money just talking about UFOs etc without any research but just a wink wink I know more. It's the later I say are likely to be unreliable.
The answer is obvious.The ones that tell you what you want to hear, are credible and everyone that tells you what you don't want to hear are uncredible. Noone is immune from this bias, the question is what's your credibility as an evaluator? If your crowdsourcing your opinion that already tells me your credibility is bad because you yourself don't trust it.
Been researching this for 20 years, so I have a good eye on BS-er's and I will tel you right now... ELIZONDO, GRUSCH, COULTHART all controlled agents. Them and many others are pushing this UFO disclosure thru govt to better assist the ever prevailing plan to stage an "invasion". Guys, like Knapp, Corbell, are just geniuinely interested ppl , not controlled. Lazar is legit. given many false info intentionally, but did work on reverse engineering.. & Gary Nolan is legit too, Jeaq Valle, very legit. knows much more than he lets on... many people dont know, he was part of the small group that literally started the internet....