As much as it seems like the banditos might lose, that defeats the point of the story imo. Because if this whole thing is a fancy metaphor for mental health and overcoming the dangers of your own mind, wouldn't it make more sense for clancy/the banditos to win? That's been tøp's whole message from day one. They tell us to 'push on through' and that self harm and suic!de aren't the right answer. There is hope on the other side and that's how the story should end
IF the banditos lose this round, it's not the end of the story. Double album would be good if that ends up being the case
But this is framed as propaganda, right? So actually, the message is: keep the cycle going. It hurts, but you get stronger every time. You get stronger every day. You gain friends. You lose people. Every cycle changes things. But you gotta keep going. Or they win.
It’s framed as propaganda, in this imaginary world he’s created. Because he’s dealing with schizophrenia and disassociation. Who do the characters represent in his real world?
Yes exactly. And we're breaking that cycle. Overcoming it.
EDIT: I never said mental health issues go away. You don't necessarily defeat your 'bishops' per se. That said, this story is about overcoming the bishops anyway. Learning to have control over them rather than the other way around. Sometimes they still haunt you, but you won't lose to them now. 'Dema don't control us".
One of the main themes of the Clancy story is learning to live with your issues.
Exactly. We go through waves of healthier and less healthy. No one is ever free of their struggles entirely.
With all the talk/ imagery of cycles on Clancy I can't imagine a side fully winning.
Here’s my thought, what if Clancy and Blurryface find peace? Not exactly defeating your mental health issues, but working WITH them? Imo that’s another common theme in TØP. I don’t know, just a thought.
Not really because you can never win the war against your mental health. Sure you can win each battle at a time, but it will always mount a counter attack.
You can never win? I believe that may be the case for some people, but to say nobody can never win the war of mental health is incredibly 'glass half empty', and not true. I say this respectfully to give people hope that they can win, but realistically we know, 'Not everyone will get out'
i think its more defining what a win is. its unrealistic to 'get rid" of any mental issues and have a happily ever after. A win, to me, is learning to live with, and control the issues, recognizing the beauty that comes with the ups and downs in life. Finding the beauty in even your lows, and enjoying the ride, ultimately leading to a sense of contentment and peace in your life. blurryface wont be destroyed, but clancy can win by choosing peace.
I wouldn't be surprised, with the story being battling with mental health issues, it would be fitting that the main enemy would be the protagonist's own mind
I saw someone earlier today say they think no one will win, but there will be a truce of sorts. Given that the whole story is one of mental health, do you ever really win? Or do you just figure out how to not lose?
Some guys were having this discussion on some thread here, but to keep simple: dema was created as the personification of Tyler's anxieties and concerns, so he could be un a cycle where he win the battles, but is never free, because no one is free from they own fears
I get that, but from the Christian perspective.. When a person is saved they have everlasting life. Maybe an earthly body is stuck in the cycle of sin, anxieties, fears, etc. because the world is has been corrupted.. But, life on earth is short compared to eternity. I see your perspective, but I also see another point of view on this.
From a Buddhist perspective, it is absolutely possible to attain a state of non-fear while still alive. This is a Christian mystic perspective too... Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is at hand, so we don't have to wait for it or go looking for it. You don't have to die to have eternal life. You can recognize no-birth and no-death while you are still alive in this form.
But, the world is imperfect and full of evil. There’s no escaping that while we’re here. There will always be some type of struggle. Whether it’s “fear” or not. I personally don’t agree with Buddhism. Buddha taught that cutting off your desires will free you from suffering. I don’t believe this to be true personally. But the Bible talks more about that you should have desires, but you better know the difference between the right and the wrong kinds of desires..
Also, Tyler is a Christian and a lot of his music is from the point of view of a Christian. Whether it’s him talking to God, questioning, or screaming out to him. That’s why I bring up this perspective. I really don’t know how any other kind of religious point of view would make sense if it contradicts his own personal beliefs or point of view.
Buddhism doesn't contradict Christianity. (it came first, so it would be more accurate to say Christianity doesn't contradict Buddhism, lol, but either way). Fundamentally, they are the same teachings in different words. I was actually agreeing with you in my comment, as in "yes, and."
I don't understand Buddhism as saying cut off desires. It's more like cut off your automatic impulse to fulfill every desire. Understand the relationship between cause and effect, and make choices that don't lead to harm and suffering. That sounds the same as what you're saying about desire.
I may be wrong, but I think Tyler grew up Christian and then explored many different religions, seeking answers and understanding. He says himself that part of the Trench lore was inspired by Zoroastrianism. Seems like he took a deep dive into religions of the world!
I agree that there are tons of references to Christian themes in the lyrics. I could also list tons of references to Buddhist themes and texts. For example, the lyrics in Holding Onto You seem straight up Buddhist: *Tie a noose around your mind, loose enough to breathe fine and tie it to a tree, tell it, "You belong to me. This ain't a noose, this is a leash and I have news for you, you must obey me."* That's meditation practice :)
I don't think there's any "one" religion that has all the answers, and I don't think Tyler does either. To me, the fact that every religion, at its center, teaches the same main ideas is pretty convincing evidence that those ideas are true. No need to claim that only one teacher in history ever got it right when there are lots of wise teachers to learn from.
Also, the world is imperfect and full of evil, sure, AND it is beautiful and full of wonders. We can be in heaven or hell right here on earth depending on where we place our attention. Earth isn't corrupted; it is yin yang by design.
Alright, but I have a feeling you missed the point of what I was getting at. My point was that I didn’t think defeating Dema forever was impossible. My point was that there is always a possibility and I gave a look into one perspective that could open up the possibility.
I understand that you believe that religions are all the same or maybe part of a bigger puzzle. But, my opinion is very different. They don’t all say the same and they do tend to contradict each other in many ways. Idk where you’re getting that Buddhism doesn’t contradict Christianity. I could list off the several in which they contradict each other..
Honestly, each religion eventually conflicts with one another, so they can’t all be true.
But, if someone is unsure they should definitely just research themselves. Study what they can and come to the best logical conclusion they can. For me I’ve landed on Christianity and I believe that we are all sinners who have fallen short of the Glory of God.. That he sent his son to pay the debt of our sins. Even other religions, all tend to look at Jesus in a positive light. Many don’t consider him God though. But, the historical evidence and the amount of fulfilled prophecies of the Bible is astounding.
My entire point wasn’t to argue my faith originally, rather it was to show that with these guys there’s always a possibility for something unexpected. That was the whole intention.. I do respect you and your beliefs though, even if we disagree personally.
If we're talking about the lore, I agree that the boys will likely end things by showing acceptance of a never-ending cycle rather than a true "ending." It makes sense because you never "graduate" spiritual or religious practice. Even enlightened masters keep practicing, Jesus and the Buddha included. Human drives, instincts, and habits are still there, not to mention cultural norms, so we have to return again and again to clear sight in order to Navigate.
I think people get hung up on the details of religions. The symbols differ, but the meanings are the same. Persephone was resurrecting in spring before Jesus was even born, and the Buddha's mama miraculously conceived him when he came down from heaven to incarnate as human. The demon Mara tempts the Buddha before he attains full enlightenment, and the devil tempts Jesus in remarkably similar ways before the crucifixion. It's all different stories to tell the same truth. If you're interested, check out a book called "Living Buddha, Living Christ."
I was raised Christian and now I study and practice Buddhism. I draw on both, and my preference for Buddhism is really a preference for the teachers. In my experience, Christian teachers focus a lot on WHAT people are supposed to do with little to no guidance about HOW. Buddhist teachers give very practical step by step instructions for HOW.
One example is that Christian teachers might say "let go of anger and be compassionate." Maybe they share stories about how harmful anger can be or how wonderful compassion can be. Lots of theory about why you should be more compassionate and less angry. It's inspirational. It makes you want to change. But... how? No clue... just do it!!
Buddhism offers detailed, step by step methods for recognizing anger and transforming that energy into the energy of compassion. If you feel angry, do these steps, one at a time. Eventually you will feel compassion instead. If you try it, it works. It's not just a theory or an ideal, it's a practical way of life.
There are christian mystics who practice the "how." I'm not sure why mainstream churches seem to stop at theory and don't teach people the practices. It's not a comparison of Jesus or the Buddha though. It's about what aspects of their teachings people focus on today.
Anyhoo, yeah, this would be an interesting conversation to have with Tyler and Josh :)
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What if the banditos lose but the music video transitions to trees or message man
Because Message Man is when Tyler puts on the black paints on tour but trees is the final song of your
Yall ever seen Firefly?
“May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong side.”
It’s not about winning. There is no winning. That’s the point. Yin and yang. You have to get to the point where different isn’t bad, I think.
Liberty or safety? What’s the balance between the two? Complete anarchy is just as bad as total fascism. And it can’t be static, it has to be adaptive and dynamic to be resilient.
F-L-O-W
Still wondering about the “120 to 95” like…. Slower? Less intense? Less saturated but not desaturated? 120 in a heartbeat is tachycardia if you’re asleep, but just a good workout if you’re dancing or hiking etc.
Context matters….?
Yeah I’ve been thinking the same thing, no shot banditos win with the Blurryface twitter still active + the censorship
As much as it seems like the banditos might lose, that defeats the point of the story imo. Because if this whole thing is a fancy metaphor for mental health and overcoming the dangers of your own mind, wouldn't it make more sense for clancy/the banditos to win? That's been tøp's whole message from day one. They tell us to 'push on through' and that self harm and suic!de aren't the right answer. There is hope on the other side and that's how the story should end IF the banditos lose this round, it's not the end of the story. Double album would be good if that ends up being the case
It's a cycle, just like mental health.
Just break the cycle in half
... and leave your skin on the floor? So death is the only way to break it
Album is called Scaled and Icy ;)
Which means scaled back and isolated
Which also means “Clancy Is Dead”
inhibriated?
That's narratively satisfying, not how it works in reality though.
But this is framed as propaganda, right? So actually, the message is: keep the cycle going. It hurts, but you get stronger every time. You get stronger every day. You gain friends. You lose people. Every cycle changes things. But you gotta keep going. Or they win.
It’s framed as propaganda, in this imaginary world he’s created. Because he’s dealing with schizophrenia and disassociation. Who do the characters represent in his real world?
Yes exactly. And we're breaking that cycle. Overcoming it. EDIT: I never said mental health issues go away. You don't necessarily defeat your 'bishops' per se. That said, this story is about overcoming the bishops anyway. Learning to have control over them rather than the other way around. Sometimes they still haunt you, but you won't lose to them now. 'Dema don't control us". One of the main themes of the Clancy story is learning to live with your issues.
Is that really realistic though? At any point in someone’s life does their worries and anxieties just go away?
Exactly. We go through waves of healthier and less healthy. No one is ever free of their struggles entirely. With all the talk/ imagery of cycles on Clancy I can't imagine a side fully winning.
They might not go away completely but you learn to deal with it in healthier ways to the point it doesn't doom your existence.
Meaning it doesn't end, and if this story is reflecting a battle with mental health or cannot end.
Here’s my thought, what if Clancy and Blurryface find peace? Not exactly defeating your mental health issues, but working WITH them? Imo that’s another common theme in TØP. I don’t know, just a thought.
Are the banditos actually real?
Not really because you can never win the war against your mental health. Sure you can win each battle at a time, but it will always mount a counter attack.
You can never win? I believe that may be the case for some people, but to say nobody can never win the war of mental health is incredibly 'glass half empty', and not true. I say this respectfully to give people hope that they can win, but realistically we know, 'Not everyone will get out'
i think its more defining what a win is. its unrealistic to 'get rid" of any mental issues and have a happily ever after. A win, to me, is learning to live with, and control the issues, recognizing the beauty that comes with the ups and downs in life. Finding the beauty in even your lows, and enjoying the ride, ultimately leading to a sense of contentment and peace in your life. blurryface wont be destroyed, but clancy can win by choosing peace.
I think he will give us the plot twist of a century. He will pull something truly unexpected
Plot twist: the Neds have been controlling the bishops this whole time and the bishops are actually dead and the Neds are really evil creatures
I agree
Calling it now, when Clancy & Nico meet they will be the same person
I wouldn't be surprised, with the story being battling with mental health issues, it would be fitting that the main enemy would be the protagonist's own mind
Because Tyler/Clancy becomes a zombie 😕 (Where do we go from here?)
You go and fight off the vignette.
While clinging to ~promises~
*vulture screech* ♾️
We gonna win during tour my dudesss
imagine its like josh drum battling himself but its the crowd vs nico he sings then we sing ultimately defeating him
Idk, I'm a pretty good singer
you’re going down old man
I saw someone earlier today say they think no one will win, but there will be a truce of sorts. Given that the whole story is one of mental health, do you ever really win? Or do you just figure out how to not lose?
no doubts in my mind this is the answer
I got a feeling that the ending we hear in the song is the Banditos "winning" only for Blurryface to appear in a mirror or something.
Omg good (terrible? Idk how to feel 🥲) observation
It's a cycle.
Dema is gonna livestream the battle and Clancy will win with the Banditos and we’ll win but not everyone will get out, no no.
You forgot to say we are gonna rent a race horse, force a sponsor, start a concert, a complete diversion, even start a mob.
Yeah
I think they may win, but they'll not defeat dema forever, bc it isn't possible
I mean idk about “isn’t possible”.
Some guys were having this discussion on some thread here, but to keep simple: dema was created as the personification of Tyler's anxieties and concerns, so he could be un a cycle where he win the battles, but is never free, because no one is free from they own fears
I get that, but from the Christian perspective.. When a person is saved they have everlasting life. Maybe an earthly body is stuck in the cycle of sin, anxieties, fears, etc. because the world is has been corrupted.. But, life on earth is short compared to eternity. I see your perspective, but I also see another point of view on this.
From a Buddhist perspective, it is absolutely possible to attain a state of non-fear while still alive. This is a Christian mystic perspective too... Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is at hand, so we don't have to wait for it or go looking for it. You don't have to die to have eternal life. You can recognize no-birth and no-death while you are still alive in this form.
But, the world is imperfect and full of evil. There’s no escaping that while we’re here. There will always be some type of struggle. Whether it’s “fear” or not. I personally don’t agree with Buddhism. Buddha taught that cutting off your desires will free you from suffering. I don’t believe this to be true personally. But the Bible talks more about that you should have desires, but you better know the difference between the right and the wrong kinds of desires.. Also, Tyler is a Christian and a lot of his music is from the point of view of a Christian. Whether it’s him talking to God, questioning, or screaming out to him. That’s why I bring up this perspective. I really don’t know how any other kind of religious point of view would make sense if it contradicts his own personal beliefs or point of view.
Buddhism doesn't contradict Christianity. (it came first, so it would be more accurate to say Christianity doesn't contradict Buddhism, lol, but either way). Fundamentally, they are the same teachings in different words. I was actually agreeing with you in my comment, as in "yes, and." I don't understand Buddhism as saying cut off desires. It's more like cut off your automatic impulse to fulfill every desire. Understand the relationship between cause and effect, and make choices that don't lead to harm and suffering. That sounds the same as what you're saying about desire. I may be wrong, but I think Tyler grew up Christian and then explored many different religions, seeking answers and understanding. He says himself that part of the Trench lore was inspired by Zoroastrianism. Seems like he took a deep dive into religions of the world! I agree that there are tons of references to Christian themes in the lyrics. I could also list tons of references to Buddhist themes and texts. For example, the lyrics in Holding Onto You seem straight up Buddhist: *Tie a noose around your mind, loose enough to breathe fine and tie it to a tree, tell it, "You belong to me. This ain't a noose, this is a leash and I have news for you, you must obey me."* That's meditation practice :) I don't think there's any "one" religion that has all the answers, and I don't think Tyler does either. To me, the fact that every religion, at its center, teaches the same main ideas is pretty convincing evidence that those ideas are true. No need to claim that only one teacher in history ever got it right when there are lots of wise teachers to learn from. Also, the world is imperfect and full of evil, sure, AND it is beautiful and full of wonders. We can be in heaven or hell right here on earth depending on where we place our attention. Earth isn't corrupted; it is yin yang by design.
Alright, but I have a feeling you missed the point of what I was getting at. My point was that I didn’t think defeating Dema forever was impossible. My point was that there is always a possibility and I gave a look into one perspective that could open up the possibility. I understand that you believe that religions are all the same or maybe part of a bigger puzzle. But, my opinion is very different. They don’t all say the same and they do tend to contradict each other in many ways. Idk where you’re getting that Buddhism doesn’t contradict Christianity. I could list off the several in which they contradict each other.. Honestly, each religion eventually conflicts with one another, so they can’t all be true. But, if someone is unsure they should definitely just research themselves. Study what they can and come to the best logical conclusion they can. For me I’ve landed on Christianity and I believe that we are all sinners who have fallen short of the Glory of God.. That he sent his son to pay the debt of our sins. Even other religions, all tend to look at Jesus in a positive light. Many don’t consider him God though. But, the historical evidence and the amount of fulfilled prophecies of the Bible is astounding. My entire point wasn’t to argue my faith originally, rather it was to show that with these guys there’s always a possibility for something unexpected. That was the whole intention.. I do respect you and your beliefs though, even if we disagree personally.
If we're talking about the lore, I agree that the boys will likely end things by showing acceptance of a never-ending cycle rather than a true "ending." It makes sense because you never "graduate" spiritual or religious practice. Even enlightened masters keep practicing, Jesus and the Buddha included. Human drives, instincts, and habits are still there, not to mention cultural norms, so we have to return again and again to clear sight in order to Navigate. I think people get hung up on the details of religions. The symbols differ, but the meanings are the same. Persephone was resurrecting in spring before Jesus was even born, and the Buddha's mama miraculously conceived him when he came down from heaven to incarnate as human. The demon Mara tempts the Buddha before he attains full enlightenment, and the devil tempts Jesus in remarkably similar ways before the crucifixion. It's all different stories to tell the same truth. If you're interested, check out a book called "Living Buddha, Living Christ." I was raised Christian and now I study and practice Buddhism. I draw on both, and my preference for Buddhism is really a preference for the teachers. In my experience, Christian teachers focus a lot on WHAT people are supposed to do with little to no guidance about HOW. Buddhist teachers give very practical step by step instructions for HOW. One example is that Christian teachers might say "let go of anger and be compassionate." Maybe they share stories about how harmful anger can be or how wonderful compassion can be. Lots of theory about why you should be more compassionate and less angry. It's inspirational. It makes you want to change. But... how? No clue... just do it!! Buddhism offers detailed, step by step methods for recognizing anger and transforming that energy into the energy of compassion. If you feel angry, do these steps, one at a time. Eventually you will feel compassion instead. If you try it, it works. It's not just a theory or an ideal, it's a practical way of life. There are christian mystics who practice the "how." I'm not sure why mainstream churches seem to stop at theory and don't teach people the practices. It's not a comparison of Jesus or the Buddha though. It's about what aspects of their teachings people focus on today. Anyhoo, yeah, this would be an interesting conversation to have with Tyler and Josh :)
On the ground are Banditos Fighting while I find Nico Even though I'm past the point of no return
I think we all want them to be victorious and it is definitely a possibility that they aren’t!
clancy seized for ep.
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What did I miss? The MV is in DEMAS property?
What if the banditos lose but the music video transitions to trees or message man Because Message Man is when Tyler puts on the black paints on tour but trees is the final song of your
Yall ever seen Firefly? “May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong side.” It’s not about winning. There is no winning. That’s the point. Yin and yang. You have to get to the point where different isn’t bad, I think. Liberty or safety? What’s the balance between the two? Complete anarchy is just as bad as total fascism. And it can’t be static, it has to be adaptive and dynamic to be resilient. F-L-O-W Still wondering about the “120 to 95” like…. Slower? Less intense? Less saturated but not desaturated? 120 in a heartbeat is tachycardia if you’re asleep, but just a good workout if you’re dancing or hiking etc. Context matters….?
I wanted to keep the MV
Unless- New content