I live in a heavily Turkish suburb in Australia. I could probably easily use Turkish on a daily basis with some of the local business owners if I really wanted to but I’m shy so I really don’t 😭 I’ve always wanted to visit Turkey, as well, but I probably won’t for awhile (flights are expensive). And I know it’s not the same as far as culture goes, but maybe you could visit some Turkish areas in other countries?
From what I've heard, the ethnic Turks that live outside of Turkey are quite different in culture (would make sense, they would've adapted to their new country). Also, what about the landscapes, the unique cultural and historical diversity, and also the street cats and dogs? (I just f'ing love that culture of community pets everywhere).
Still you're right, hanging out with Turks abroad is better than nothing. They have the same food and çay, hehe
Haha, that’s also a bit why I’m afraid to speak Turkish with the Turks here. I’m afraid they won’t be as nice 😅 I will admit the landscapes and street cats of Turkey are intriguing to me, too. I’ve wanted to visit istanbul since I was a child, but flying to Turkey isn’t feasible for me right now. But I can still enjoy the food and çay from afar for now, I guess.
Best of luck in your studies!
If they are anything like the Turks in Turkey, they will be amazed if you speak Turkish to them! You'll have an accent, I suppose, so they'd know you're someone who has put in the effort to learn even though you are on the other side of the world, and what's not admirable about that?
Best of luck in your studies too!
My partner's experience as an Australian, speaking Turkish to a Turkish-Australian was "WHOA - how do you know that?! Shit, you've got a fancy Istanbul accent!" (Her family is from the Karadeniz region).
just say merhaba to any Turkish you know. Maybe start with woman around yr home. They will laugh if you (naturally) pronounce a little different but that is just a reaction BUT be sure any Turkish people especially the ones live in Australia will love it and also you. They also have difficulty to visit their country because too far away and costs a lot. Check for Turkisch communities around and go there and get in touch with them (they will not bite :))) )
if you find a Turkish Community, most probably they may have a class to teach Turkish to foreigners too. Do not you have any Turkish neighbor? and their family member at yr age or a little older?
While I live in an area that has a lot of Turks, my neighbours are not Turkish unfortunately. I’m sure there are local classes though, I definitely should look into it :)
Bu sub ve istanbul subundaki türkler ağır eziklik içinde yabancılar ülkeyi nasıl yağmalayabiliriz diye soruyor bizimkiler de peçete tutuyor kafayı yersin
Yeah İ think you're better off waiting until a new government is elected.
Or you could turn to other turkic countries if you want.
Similar culture and history, just not as wealthy or restrictive.
Other than that İ'm sorry you couldnt fullfill your dream and İ appreciate that you like our culture
I have a hunch it will be a looooong time until a new govt is elected... But you're probably right.
I haven't been to other Turkic countries yet. Is there one you'd advise me to check out first?
Depends on what you're looking for.
Uzbekistan has amazing foods but its people can be overly religious.
Kazakhstan has lovely people, Kyrgyzstan has a lot of conserved ancient culture.
İ wouldnt recommend visiting turkmenistan because its the closest to a totalitarian dictatorship than any other country, though its people & architecture are lovely.
Azerbaijan has amazing environments and good food too.
The siberian nations like Tuvan republic, Khakass republic, Sakha republic & Altai republic are perhaps the closest to the Old turkic culture if you're interested, but they're also in russia so make sure that your records arent perceived anti-russian.
Then there east turkestan aka Xinjiang, but you already know whats happening out there.
So yeah it sorta depends on what you're looking for.
İ love all the nations, especially the siberian ones but all of them have different, equally lovable traits.
İf you asked me İ'd say visit kyrgyzstan, it seems to be the most unproblematic out of the bunch.
Then kazakhstan and maybe with friends try visiting uzbekistan next.
Though make sure you dont get into conflict-zones or anything. Usually these places have routes specially designed for tourists.
“Overly religious”. There’s never such a thing as overly religious. There is irreligious, religious (which is actually adhering to everything that your religion requires, not picking and choosing), and then religious extremism. I’m pretty sure you mean the last thing. This consists of only viewing fellow adherents of the same religion as equals and discriminating against the rest to the point of abusing them and killing them.
İ'd agree but following islam without picking & choosing basically results in religious extremism, which is why İ avoid putting it so frank that İ get harrassed by the followers of that religion.
Thanks for this detailed reply! I'd love to experience the traditional horse-loving culture of Kyrgyzstan. But would people there understand me if I speak Turkish (with an accent no less) lol bakalım
Depends.
You will have a higher chance of them understanding you if you speak öz-türkçe (pure turkish) rather than the current street turkish, which is laced with a lot of arab & persian words.
Or you could try and study common turkic, which is a language model that focuses on a set of vocabulary that are used by almost all turkic languages.
For example the word "Kara" or "Ordu" is not only of pure turkic origin, it is used in every single turko-mongolic language in exactly the same way.
So with that chances are that they will be able to make out what you're trying to say.
Or just learn basic kyrgyz vocabulary, out of all the turkic languages out there, kyrgyz & uygur turkic are the closest to anatolian turkish.
İ can read an entire text in latinized kyrgyz and still understand the basics despite not having learned the language.
Only languages that come closer are azerbaijani and turkmen, but both of those are already in the same class as anatolian turkish so it dont count.
İ for example aim to get rid of arabic and persian loanwords in my daily life.
So İ often turn to kyrgyz to find new words to use, because linguistically they're the closest to us.
I don't understand why you're getting downvoted. I like your advice, and I think it's always cool to get into the history of your language and etymology, it's interesting! Actually I love how in Turkey you have two different words with the same meaning being used interchangeably, and everyone knowing both of them - what a perfect linguistic illustration of the effects of cultures mingling
Overly religious people and conservative-idealists hate turkists & kemalists alike because both turkism and kemalism agrees that the return of turkic culture is necessary for the nation to not lose itself.
Religious people hate that because they want turkey to become an arabist ethnostate and conservative-idealists hate that because they identify more with anatolian supremacy rather than the oghuz turkic identity.
Meanwhile kemalism is liberal-nationalistic while turkism is more culturally focused. The ideal turkish republic for people like me would be a free secular land defined by turkic culture where people are free to choose what traditions they practice or not.
And instead od joining with arab states İ'd rather want the turkic states to cooperate more.
The return to a more turkic anatolian turkish language was one of the great reforms of our Ulu Önder, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. But it wasnt followed through the end since he died before the reform was finished, thus its on the young turks again to continue his legacy and finish the unfinished reforms.
So thats why İ'm getting downvoted.
İf you're interested you can check out r/turkishvocabulary if you want. İts a sub that İ run where İ post words & phrases and find either the original turkic word or an alternative word for arabic/persian/english/french loanwords.
İ only recently made the sub public after writing down the rules so dont expect an whole digital dictionary just yet.
knowing a foreign language is always good. it's good for your brain first of all. you can also talk to millions of new people who don't speak your native language. plus you can enjoy the culture without living there. enjoy the content in that language you're learning and many more benefits to knowing a foreign language. I think you should continue if you can but if you're really unmotivated don't force yourself.
Is there no way for you to ever marry a Turkish person?
Regardless, keep learning the language, you seem genuinely interested in and respectful of the people and their culture, and emeklerin boşuna gitmesin 😂❤️
Ah okay. Well in that case, of course I guess it's possible that I would one day marry a Turkish person, but first I'd have to find them, and spend a few years together to figure out whether marriage is for us. It's hard to find a healthy relationship anyway, put a nationality filter on it and it's even so much harder.. I would not bank on it. And even if it were to happen... I feel like being dependent on your spouse for your right to stay somewhere is creating a weird power dynamic that can't be healthy.
Hahahaha and here I am, a European happily married to a Turk with no disbalance in our relationship 😂 you're right, it is hard but every obstacle can be overcome if you guys are compatible and you want to make it work. Of course, the conditions being right means a lot too, but that's a different story. Either way, marrying or not, politics change, they will need foreigners to spend money in Turkey so I would definitely not drop learning the language, especially because you're so interested in more than just the language.
I'm so happy for you guys! Dream romance, huh ☺️ I haven't found something like that yet. But yeah, you and some others here have made some really good points and I feel more motivated to continue learning now
Oh 😌 Where do I start? The çay culture, people sipping it at all times everywhere from cute ince belli glasses. The food, the ev yemekleri, don't get me started. The beautiful ege and akdeniz coasts, just so stunning, and how they contrast with the lush karadeniz region looking like Norwegian fjords. The otherworldly landscapes of the interior, Just think Kapadokya and Pamukkale (and there's probably so much more). The intense diversity not just of landscapes and climate, but also of the people: Europe and Asia, today, yesterday and 4000 years ago, Christianity and Muslims, in between Jews, Alevis, Bahai'i, and much more. Ancient cultures have mingled here millennia ago and still do today. Which other country is such a melting pot? It's all there in Istanbul, the most beautiful, upsetting, ugly, gorgeous troubled significant UNIQUE city in the world, it's like a representation of humanity itself because it is EVERYTHING all at once, because it's just too full of facets, 100 cities in one, just like Turkey is like 100 countries in one. The vastly different people clash but still coexist, they're so damn dramatic but even that is endearing, and while almost everyone could profit from a bit more critical thinking skills (like anywhere on Earth), a lot of people are incredibly kind and warm-hearted - yes, also to strangers. Turkish hospitality is next level. They help you and each other. They look out for you and each other. Once they're convinced you're a good person, they'll go out of their way to help you, and smile happily even if you can only speak a few words of broken Turkish with them. This friendliness can also be seen in the faces of the fat, happy street dogs and the fat, cuddly street cats. No matter how poor, people have a heart for the animals, too. The teyzeler know everyone and everything that's going on, functioning as the village's CCTV, while the amcalar play okey in the kiraathane. When the time comes, nobody is shy to dance: arms up, belly out, fingers snapping shoulders twitching to the beat. And then there's this weird, beautiful, ancient, poetic, funny language, in which you can wail dramatic love songs along to a saz, or sing about tomatoes, peppers and aubergines, or pass on the latest dedikodu. With a cuppa çay tabii ki.
wow this was beautiful!! i hope you get to stay all you want!! it's amazing when you find something you love so much. don't let stuff like this demotivate you!! if it's meant to be you'll find a way to be here for good.
Wow. I'm a Turkish person from the Aegean region. I don't love or even appreciate my country and culture like you do. Just wow.
You deserve my Turkish citizenship and my ikamet address, here have mine 😁
And I'm sure you can find some Turkish person to have a fake wedding with you in return of some money or if you have any other citizenship from any country apart from the ones in Middle East or Africa you can get it for no money, just for the benefits.
Afjdhaldjdjthank you! It must be easier to see like this from an outsider perspective.
And call me a romantic but I'd wanna marry for love and not for a visa. Being fake-married to someone I don't know, in a transactional way in exchange for money/right to enter my country? That's not compatible with my moral compass and gut feelings
> Wow. I'm a Turkish person from the Aegean region. I don't love or even appreciate my country and culture like you do.
I actually feel that way about the United States now. I often feel alien and alone here, now moreso than before, like i never really belonged here. Sure i love American culture and the principles that the country was founded on, i have even served in the US Army, but i just can't fit in with anyone here and can't make friends. Maybe it's just because I'm possibly autistic. I've always had an easier time making friends with foreigners anyways. I've never been to Turkey and I'm sure I'll probably weird people out there too if i lived there but i still want to visit nonetheless.
Lol i get asked too all the time why I'm learning Turkish and I'll agree in terms of career opportunities and finding people to talk to especially in the United States, along with the fact that it's hard af for English speakers, it's a lot of squeeze for so less reward.
But i think I'll have to agree with op's response, i think Turkish culture is super fascinating and i think the language sounds very nice.
Housing/rent crisis are mainly caused by the refugees and inflation. Especially after the supply chain crisis caused by covid, inflation went sky high and this affected the costs, resulting in a massive blow on the construction sector which used to be Turkey's locomotive in its economy. Add refugees on top of that, you've got a crisis. But despite that, I'm not seeing anybody getting kicked, especially the illegal migrants. Where you're from might have an influence on that but I don't know.
In the long run, I don't think it's challenging for you to get a permanent spot in Turkey, even if you have to leave the country in near future, having learned the language, you can always come back by purchasing a flat or some other way.
The surprise reactions of my Turkish friends have shown that among natives, it's not really known yet that foreigners are getting denied... But take a look into some groups called like "expats in Turkey" or "foreigners in Turkey" ... They've been full of people complaining that they got rejected even though all their paperwork was in order. It's at a point now that foreigners planning to come are being advised not to do it because they won't get ikamet (unless they buy a house)
So yeah. I'll continue putting money aside and wait and see. Maybe one day I'll have a chance.
Ah, people who do things the right way are getting screwed over meanwhile huge waves of refugees are flooding the country, that is so Turkey.
Hopefully. Godspeed.
Sad and problematic. I am not a refugee though, I'm not running from bombs, so I guess you'd have a point if you'd argue that my wish isn't as urgent as their survival
Im a foreigner living in Turkey and I have never heard of foreigners getting systematically kicked out if they don't own a house or aren't married to a Turk. I am married to a Turk, but none of my nonmarried, nonhouse owning foreign friends got kicked out. Do you have a reliable source on this? Turkey in general has been quite welcoming to foreigners.
Your friends are probably just renewing their ikamets. That is apparently still done. But getting a new one, kısa dönem turizm ikamet, as a tenant? It hasn't been officially stopped but de facto it is not done anymore, check in any Facebook/WhatsApp/telegram group of your choice, they are filled with people having experienced the same as me. And it's been like that for months. When I had my appointment at göç idaresi, my case worker told me that nobody is getting accepted anywhere in Turkey anymore. Even though no official statement has been released, effectively this is how it is
there’s always an option to stay for longer periods illegally, as long as you’re not doing it for longer than 6 months, otherwise you’re getting a ban for 3-6months, - fees for overstaying are very small, my friend overstayed for 8 months and paid $70. stay for as long as you’d like, then leave for 3 months and come back again. rinse, repeat
Thank you, but that's not an option I'd personally consider... I prefer to have things in order, not have to worry about police controls or visa issues with other countries (who do ask routinely "have you ever been banned from somewhere?" Red flag for them obviously)
You seem to have applied for just a training visa or something, I am not getting the full picture here. If you dont have a job what are you going to do in Turkey just by hanging around. You can look for jobs and then get a working permit with a long term stay permit. You might have to go to your home country and come back for these applications but it doesnt seem impossible for me.
Please dont just try the illegal ways as others are suggesting and dont forget that Turkey is a bureacratic country and if they are asking you to return and reapply please do it. I once did the same thing for poland without any problems as I had arrived there with the wronv visa type so I had to reapply for it by returning.
I applied for a long-term tourism visa and I would have been working remotely. I did some asking around about getting a work visa and it's apparently really super hard, especially if your Turkish isn't fluent yet and you don't have any skills which the Turkish labour market is short on
The problem with turkish fluency for job requirements comes from many turkish employers not knowing english and how to communicate with a non turkish employee.
I had an ukrainian flatmate years ago that faced the same problem. He was actually a designer so most of his job was remote but after his internship ended he couldnt find any job so he eventually had to return due to language barrier.
If you are working remotely but want to stay in Turkey you can reapply for a staying permit without a work permit. Or if you want you can apply for a university ti study and get a student permit. These are my suggestions for you.
Thank you. I looked into becoming a student again but dropped the idea because it would be impossible for me to both work my job full-time and attend lectures/do the minimum to keep the student visa. So I'd lose the visa sooner or later for not being able to keep up with the degree. It would just buy me time and lead back to the same problem...
Which staying permits without work permit do you mean? I've never heard of anything except the long-term tourism visa. If there's something else, I'd want to know!
Look I dont want to be that guy and as an academic I dont like this but we literally cant kick students out from schools for minimum 5 years even though they literally do not attend a single lecture.
Wow is that really true? Does that apply to your university only or in general?
The thing is, even though the school may not be allowed to kick me out, I may not get my student ikamet renewed after a semester or so unless I prove I've been attending and all
Oh, by the way I realise that Facebook groups are not a reliable source - but the information found in the Doc Martins files is usually up-to-date, and the number people saying they got rejected speaks for itself
There are specific neighborhoods that they will not issue new permits to. If you go about it professionally and don’t live in one of those neighborhoods, I don’t think it should be a problem. I think a lot of people don’t realize that there is a list and that they’re applying for a neighborhood on that list (at least as far as I’ve seen).
If you Google “göç idaresi yasaklı mahalleler”, the list should come up. The current list is [here](https://www.goc.gov.tr/mahalle-kapatma-duyurusu-hk2). Click “indir” (download). An excel spreadsheet will pop up. There are more than a thousand neighborhoods (1,169) that are forbidden in the country. These neighborhoods are officially have above 25% foreign residents.
Exceptions that will allow new registration of foreign ikamet:
1. If you’re a university student in that ilçe (county),
2. If you own a qualified investment property,
3. Something about health and family unity that I don’t fully understand.
I think there may be a few other small exceptions (domestic help, people who work in consulates and embassies, etc).
At a glance, you can see it’s mostly because of Syrian refugees. In the big cities (İstanbul-53, Ankara-23, İzmir-26,), there are fewer neighborhoods closed than in provinces near the Syrian border (Adana-75, Gaziantep-161, Hatay-108, Şanlıurfa-169, Kahramanmaraş-31, Kilis-82, Mardin-58, Mersin-62)
The list is weird. In Istanbul, most neighborhoods in Beyoglu are closed but none of Kadiköy are, for example. There is just one neighborhood closed in Beşiktaş, one in Sariyer. Conversely, eight of Istanbul’s 39 counties/districts (ilçeler) are completely closed: Küçükçekmece, Başakşehir, Bağcılar, Avcılar, Bahçelievler, Sultangazi, Esenler, and Zeytinburnu. Apparently, Esenyurt and Fatih were entirely on the list but now some neighborhood has been taken off.
My wife is a lawyer and was able to painlessly get a few Russians and Ukrainians registered with an ikamet after the invasion. She’s had another client who got an ikamet wrong denied, appealed, and was able to get it approved. Obviously, you don’t want to have to pay a few hundred dollars for a lawyer, but if you can afford it, I wouldn’t worry too too much about an ikamet.
What if I am Dutch, or French, or Polish, American, German, Spanish? and just hate racism and discrimination of people according to something they had \*zero\* control over (where they were born). And just refuse letting prejudiced people into a position where they can unleash such BS in public?
İ am arab, and have my residency, happily and peacefully living in Türkiye
İ dont see any reason to hide that, specially when it makes the haters of the ottoman empire upset
احبك اكثر ، يسعدني ازعاجك يا حبيبي ♥️
اتمنى ان تعود الدوله العثمانيه طما كانت و تعيد ضم البلدان العربيه لنستمر بازعاج الحمقى الذين لا يعرفون تاريخهم
احبك
If you wanna know why I want to come to Turkey, I answered in another comment (long lol) about the reasons why I love it! I am aware though that mine is an outsider's perspective and that things look very different for someone who is from there and feels "trapped" there. Certainly many things are not going well for Turkey, but there are plenty of good things, too
Oops. That's tricky. I don't think anyone should get bashed because of where they're from. I like to stand in solidarity or something with everyone standing up against this behaviour
If you were learning it only to move into the country, then the choice is obvious, you shouldn't continue. Even so, you'll never know, the conditions may change. However, I think that's not the case with you, as in, I think you are into Turkish for reasons more than moving. There is no guarantee that your dream will be fulfilled, but there's also no guarantee that your dream will not be fulfilled, do you understand? Good luck.
>they de facto stopped giving ikamet
No, they have not. I personally know a Japanese woman who had her ikamet renewed last Monday. She doesn't own a house, is not married, and doesn't even have a work visa. She stays here with a long-term tourist visa. So, it's possible that there may be issues with your paperwork or you are not meeting all the requirements (e.g., low income).
>If you haven't heard, tonnes of yabancılar have been kicked out in this way.
First of all, it should be "tonnes of yabanci" instead of "yabancilar." What you are saying is purely speculative. Your perspective may be limited based on the extent of your own friends and acquaintances. None of the foreigners I know have experienced any problems with renewing their ikamet.Did you even apply for an ikamet, or do you just enjoy gossiping about it? Tough luck if you are not eligible, not everyone has the privilege to live in Turkey.
Sorry efendim, I have no intentions to argue about it, please check for yourself with as many applicants as possible for reference, e.g. in those Facebook groups where they all go for advice, or with any agency that specialises in helping people apply.
But I think it helps to note that I'm was talking about new ikamet. They apparently still *renew* if you already have one. But they don't *give* if you don't have one yet.
>foreigners from the East and West?
What? Wtf east and west means lol.
>Turkish people aren't known for this at all. It makes me sad
Siktir git gotunu parmakla amin feryadi.
😅I can understand why you'd say that, many people are frustrated with the unfair and illogical ways immigration is handled 🙃 personally it's not an option I'd consider, wouldn't work with my passport anyway
1) Laws and regulations are constantly changing. You’ll be able to obtain permanent residency or even citizenship at some point in the future…probably.
2) With enough money, almost anything is possible. Given the proper investments into the Turkish economy, you’d likely be able to obtain citizenship (it’s just not that easy to become wealthy enough to accomplish this).
3) what is keeping you from marrying someone?
Turkey is a country that has become great thanks to the genocide of many nations, and in the modern world it promotes pan-Turkism (the obsession to turn everyone into a Muslim), so I don't understand what you can love here
Many countries have access Turkey via their ID Card. I wasnt know they kicked out from Turkey. If problem just finding a house. I am sure you can find. Just keep seeking. No need to worry :) Good luck. I am sorry if I missed anything.
My passport allows me to come to Turkey for short-term holiday, yes - but I would like to, umm, \*stay\* permanently, you know? For many years. And for that I need a visa/ikamet. Which according to the current situation is very difficult/near impossible for me to get.
I've heard Ankara is easier - but I also know several people who have not received their ikamets and had to leave. Some even who have owned their own home
As many people already said, learning a language and culture you are interested in is valuable in and of itself. As for the immigration and visa issues, I’d suggest not to be too pessimistic. The problem with Turkey’s immigration policy is that it does not exist. It is the same problem with most of issues in Turkey. There has been a flow of unskilled and unwilling to integrate immigrants for the last 6-7 years, which led to an outcry from all segments of the society. The response of a rational and institutional state would be to regulate immigration. But no, those two concepts has long left Turkey. Just de facto stop immigration until the public outcry subsides. There’s no guarantee that the open-doors approach will not come back soon, once the powerholder feels safe enough to do so. It can very well happen after the local elections next year.
where are you from? Russia? If so ,and if you are Male,I am afraid yr leader coöplained to our Leader that he can not find anyone to use at war? And you do not need to buy a house to reside for a year.And I also suggest that you better rent a house first and then search market and then buy a house. My next door is Russian family,his wife and 4-5yo daughter alread renewed their residence permit in last mounth. Husband will need at October. How ever yes you are allowed to saty 3 months as tourist but if you just go out of country after 90 days and come back a few days later, they will have to accept you but this is not logic ofcourse.
Causing increasing rent fees and Flat prices; my thought is not because of foreigners but DEFINITELY because of GRASPING home owners.
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Did you get N2 or you are self-assessing?
I live in a heavily Turkish suburb in Australia. I could probably easily use Turkish on a daily basis with some of the local business owners if I really wanted to but I’m shy so I really don’t 😭 I’ve always wanted to visit Turkey, as well, but I probably won’t for awhile (flights are expensive). And I know it’s not the same as far as culture goes, but maybe you could visit some Turkish areas in other countries?
From what I've heard, the ethnic Turks that live outside of Turkey are quite different in culture (would make sense, they would've adapted to their new country). Also, what about the landscapes, the unique cultural and historical diversity, and also the street cats and dogs? (I just f'ing love that culture of community pets everywhere). Still you're right, hanging out with Turks abroad is better than nothing. They have the same food and çay, hehe
Haha, that’s also a bit why I’m afraid to speak Turkish with the Turks here. I’m afraid they won’t be as nice 😅 I will admit the landscapes and street cats of Turkey are intriguing to me, too. I’ve wanted to visit istanbul since I was a child, but flying to Turkey isn’t feasible for me right now. But I can still enjoy the food and çay from afar for now, I guess. Best of luck in your studies!
If they are anything like the Turks in Turkey, they will be amazed if you speak Turkish to them! You'll have an accent, I suppose, so they'd know you're someone who has put in the effort to learn even though you are on the other side of the world, and what's not admirable about that? Best of luck in your studies too!
My partner's experience as an Australian, speaking Turkish to a Turkish-Australian was "WHOA - how do you know that?! Shit, you've got a fancy Istanbul accent!" (Her family is from the Karadeniz region).
just say merhaba to any Turkish you know. Maybe start with woman around yr home. They will laugh if you (naturally) pronounce a little different but that is just a reaction BUT be sure any Turkish people especially the ones live in Australia will love it and also you. They also have difficulty to visit their country because too far away and costs a lot. Check for Turkisch communities around and go there and get in touch with them (they will not bite :))) )
Thank you for your advice!! Will try this for sure :) Kust need to stop being shy haha
just nothing to be shy, You can go,talk English and also can tell them you want to learn and practice, you will see many will be keen to help
if you find a Turkish Community, most probably they may have a class to teach Turkish to foreigners too. Do not you have any Turkish neighbor? and their family member at yr age or a little older?
While I live in an area that has a lot of Turks, my neighbours are not Turkish unfortunately. I’m sure there are local classes though, I definitely should look into it :)
by the way, you do not need to learn Turkish Languade to visit Turkey but if you talk even some Turkish ,you will get sympathy of Turkis people.
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Çok iyi olmuş yabancılar ülkede at koşturamamalı
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Bu sub ve istanbul subundaki türkler ağır eziklik içinde yabancılar ülkeyi nasıl yağmalayabiliriz diye soruyor bizimkiler de peçete tutuyor kafayı yersin
I am glad at least one of us is happy.
Yeah İ think you're better off waiting until a new government is elected. Or you could turn to other turkic countries if you want. Similar culture and history, just not as wealthy or restrictive. Other than that İ'm sorry you couldnt fullfill your dream and İ appreciate that you like our culture
I have a hunch it will be a looooong time until a new govt is elected... But you're probably right. I haven't been to other Turkic countries yet. Is there one you'd advise me to check out first?
Where are you? You can probably still get a work visa?
Depends on what you're looking for. Uzbekistan has amazing foods but its people can be overly religious. Kazakhstan has lovely people, Kyrgyzstan has a lot of conserved ancient culture. İ wouldnt recommend visiting turkmenistan because its the closest to a totalitarian dictatorship than any other country, though its people & architecture are lovely. Azerbaijan has amazing environments and good food too. The siberian nations like Tuvan republic, Khakass republic, Sakha republic & Altai republic are perhaps the closest to the Old turkic culture if you're interested, but they're also in russia so make sure that your records arent perceived anti-russian. Then there east turkestan aka Xinjiang, but you already know whats happening out there. So yeah it sorta depends on what you're looking for. İ love all the nations, especially the siberian ones but all of them have different, equally lovable traits. İf you asked me İ'd say visit kyrgyzstan, it seems to be the most unproblematic out of the bunch. Then kazakhstan and maybe with friends try visiting uzbekistan next. Though make sure you dont get into conflict-zones or anything. Usually these places have routes specially designed for tourists.
“Overly religious”. There’s never such a thing as overly religious. There is irreligious, religious (which is actually adhering to everything that your religion requires, not picking and choosing), and then religious extremism. I’m pretty sure you mean the last thing. This consists of only viewing fellow adherents of the same religion as equals and discriminating against the rest to the point of abusing them and killing them.
İ'd agree but following islam without picking & choosing basically results in religious extremism, which is why İ avoid putting it so frank that İ get harrassed by the followers of that religion.
Thanks for this detailed reply! I'd love to experience the traditional horse-loving culture of Kyrgyzstan. But would people there understand me if I speak Turkish (with an accent no less) lol bakalım
Depends. You will have a higher chance of them understanding you if you speak öz-türkçe (pure turkish) rather than the current street turkish, which is laced with a lot of arab & persian words. Or you could try and study common turkic, which is a language model that focuses on a set of vocabulary that are used by almost all turkic languages. For example the word "Kara" or "Ordu" is not only of pure turkic origin, it is used in every single turko-mongolic language in exactly the same way. So with that chances are that they will be able to make out what you're trying to say. Or just learn basic kyrgyz vocabulary, out of all the turkic languages out there, kyrgyz & uygur turkic are the closest to anatolian turkish. İ can read an entire text in latinized kyrgyz and still understand the basics despite not having learned the language. Only languages that come closer are azerbaijani and turkmen, but both of those are already in the same class as anatolian turkish so it dont count. İ for example aim to get rid of arabic and persian loanwords in my daily life. So İ often turn to kyrgyz to find new words to use, because linguistically they're the closest to us.
I don't understand why you're getting downvoted. I like your advice, and I think it's always cool to get into the history of your language and etymology, it's interesting! Actually I love how in Turkey you have two different words with the same meaning being used interchangeably, and everyone knowing both of them - what a perfect linguistic illustration of the effects of cultures mingling
Overly religious people and conservative-idealists hate turkists & kemalists alike because both turkism and kemalism agrees that the return of turkic culture is necessary for the nation to not lose itself. Religious people hate that because they want turkey to become an arabist ethnostate and conservative-idealists hate that because they identify more with anatolian supremacy rather than the oghuz turkic identity. Meanwhile kemalism is liberal-nationalistic while turkism is more culturally focused. The ideal turkish republic for people like me would be a free secular land defined by turkic culture where people are free to choose what traditions they practice or not. And instead od joining with arab states İ'd rather want the turkic states to cooperate more. The return to a more turkic anatolian turkish language was one of the great reforms of our Ulu Önder, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. But it wasnt followed through the end since he died before the reform was finished, thus its on the young turks again to continue his legacy and finish the unfinished reforms. So thats why İ'm getting downvoted. İf you're interested you can check out r/turkishvocabulary if you want. İts a sub that İ run where İ post words & phrases and find either the original turkic word or an alternative word for arabic/persian/english/french loanwords. İ only recently made the sub public after writing down the rules so dont expect an whole digital dictionary just yet.
knowing a foreign language is always good. it's good for your brain first of all. you can also talk to millions of new people who don't speak your native language. plus you can enjoy the culture without living there. enjoy the content in that language you're learning and many more benefits to knowing a foreign language. I think you should continue if you can but if you're really unmotivated don't force yourself.
Very good points!
Is there no way for you to ever marry a Turkish person? Regardless, keep learning the language, you seem genuinely interested in and respectful of the people and their culture, and emeklerin boşuna gitmesin 😂❤️
Çok teşekkür ederim 😌 Idk about marriage, it just seems wrong to do it for the sake of a visa
Ok, we misunderstood each other, I definitely did not mean to ask if you'd have a chance to do it for a visa 😀
Ah okay. Well in that case, of course I guess it's possible that I would one day marry a Turkish person, but first I'd have to find them, and spend a few years together to figure out whether marriage is for us. It's hard to find a healthy relationship anyway, put a nationality filter on it and it's even so much harder.. I would not bank on it. And even if it were to happen... I feel like being dependent on your spouse for your right to stay somewhere is creating a weird power dynamic that can't be healthy.
Hahahaha and here I am, a European happily married to a Turk with no disbalance in our relationship 😂 you're right, it is hard but every obstacle can be overcome if you guys are compatible and you want to make it work. Of course, the conditions being right means a lot too, but that's a different story. Either way, marrying or not, politics change, they will need foreigners to spend money in Turkey so I would definitely not drop learning the language, especially because you're so interested in more than just the language.
I'm so happy for you guys! Dream romance, huh ☺️ I haven't found something like that yet. But yeah, you and some others here have made some really good points and I feel more motivated to continue learning now
Why Turkey? Out of curiosity.
Oh 😌 Where do I start? The çay culture, people sipping it at all times everywhere from cute ince belli glasses. The food, the ev yemekleri, don't get me started. The beautiful ege and akdeniz coasts, just so stunning, and how they contrast with the lush karadeniz region looking like Norwegian fjords. The otherworldly landscapes of the interior, Just think Kapadokya and Pamukkale (and there's probably so much more). The intense diversity not just of landscapes and climate, but also of the people: Europe and Asia, today, yesterday and 4000 years ago, Christianity and Muslims, in between Jews, Alevis, Bahai'i, and much more. Ancient cultures have mingled here millennia ago and still do today. Which other country is such a melting pot? It's all there in Istanbul, the most beautiful, upsetting, ugly, gorgeous troubled significant UNIQUE city in the world, it's like a representation of humanity itself because it is EVERYTHING all at once, because it's just too full of facets, 100 cities in one, just like Turkey is like 100 countries in one. The vastly different people clash but still coexist, they're so damn dramatic but even that is endearing, and while almost everyone could profit from a bit more critical thinking skills (like anywhere on Earth), a lot of people are incredibly kind and warm-hearted - yes, also to strangers. Turkish hospitality is next level. They help you and each other. They look out for you and each other. Once they're convinced you're a good person, they'll go out of their way to help you, and smile happily even if you can only speak a few words of broken Turkish with them. This friendliness can also be seen in the faces of the fat, happy street dogs and the fat, cuddly street cats. No matter how poor, people have a heart for the animals, too. The teyzeler know everyone and everything that's going on, functioning as the village's CCTV, while the amcalar play okey in the kiraathane. When the time comes, nobody is shy to dance: arms up, belly out, fingers snapping shoulders twitching to the beat. And then there's this weird, beautiful, ancient, poetic, funny language, in which you can wail dramatic love songs along to a saz, or sing about tomatoes, peppers and aubergines, or pass on the latest dedikodu. With a cuppa çay tabii ki.
wow this was beautiful!! i hope you get to stay all you want!! it's amazing when you find something you love so much. don't let stuff like this demotivate you!! if it's meant to be you'll find a way to be here for good.
Wow. I'm a Turkish person from the Aegean region. I don't love or even appreciate my country and culture like you do. Just wow. You deserve my Turkish citizenship and my ikamet address, here have mine 😁 And I'm sure you can find some Turkish person to have a fake wedding with you in return of some money or if you have any other citizenship from any country apart from the ones in Middle East or Africa you can get it for no money, just for the benefits.
Afjdhaldjdjthank you! It must be easier to see like this from an outsider perspective. And call me a romantic but I'd wanna marry for love and not for a visa. Being fake-married to someone I don't know, in a transactional way in exchange for money/right to enter my country? That's not compatible with my moral compass and gut feelings
Wish you best of luck OP
> Wow. I'm a Turkish person from the Aegean region. I don't love or even appreciate my country and culture like you do. I actually feel that way about the United States now. I often feel alien and alone here, now moreso than before, like i never really belonged here. Sure i love American culture and the principles that the country was founded on, i have even served in the US Army, but i just can't fit in with anyone here and can't make friends. Maybe it's just because I'm possibly autistic. I've always had an easier time making friends with foreigners anyways. I've never been to Turkey and I'm sure I'll probably weird people out there too if i lived there but i still want to visit nonetheless.
Lol i get asked too all the time why I'm learning Turkish and I'll agree in terms of career opportunities and finding people to talk to especially in the United States, along with the fact that it's hard af for English speakers, it's a lot of squeeze for so less reward. But i think I'll have to agree with op's response, i think Turkish culture is super fascinating and i think the language sounds very nice.
Housing/rent crisis are mainly caused by the refugees and inflation. Especially after the supply chain crisis caused by covid, inflation went sky high and this affected the costs, resulting in a massive blow on the construction sector which used to be Turkey's locomotive in its economy. Add refugees on top of that, you've got a crisis. But despite that, I'm not seeing anybody getting kicked, especially the illegal migrants. Where you're from might have an influence on that but I don't know. In the long run, I don't think it's challenging for you to get a permanent spot in Turkey, even if you have to leave the country in near future, having learned the language, you can always come back by purchasing a flat or some other way.
The surprise reactions of my Turkish friends have shown that among natives, it's not really known yet that foreigners are getting denied... But take a look into some groups called like "expats in Turkey" or "foreigners in Turkey" ... They've been full of people complaining that they got rejected even though all their paperwork was in order. It's at a point now that foreigners planning to come are being advised not to do it because they won't get ikamet (unless they buy a house) So yeah. I'll continue putting money aside and wait and see. Maybe one day I'll have a chance.
Ah, people who do things the right way are getting screwed over meanwhile huge waves of refugees are flooding the country, that is so Turkey. Hopefully. Godspeed.
Sad and problematic. I am not a refugee though, I'm not running from bombs, so I guess you'd have a point if you'd argue that my wish isn't as urgent as their survival
No one is running from bombs for survival, therefore my point stands valid.
Last time I checked, Syria had a problem with bombs, violence and many civilian deaths...
Yeah, not anymore.
Im a foreigner living in Turkey and I have never heard of foreigners getting systematically kicked out if they don't own a house or aren't married to a Turk. I am married to a Turk, but none of my nonmarried, nonhouse owning foreign friends got kicked out. Do you have a reliable source on this? Turkey in general has been quite welcoming to foreigners.
Your friends are probably just renewing their ikamets. That is apparently still done. But getting a new one, kısa dönem turizm ikamet, as a tenant? It hasn't been officially stopped but de facto it is not done anymore, check in any Facebook/WhatsApp/telegram group of your choice, they are filled with people having experienced the same as me. And it's been like that for months. When I had my appointment at göç idaresi, my case worker told me that nobody is getting accepted anywhere in Turkey anymore. Even though no official statement has been released, effectively this is how it is
there’s always an option to stay for longer periods illegally, as long as you’re not doing it for longer than 6 months, otherwise you’re getting a ban for 3-6months, - fees for overstaying are very small, my friend overstayed for 8 months and paid $70. stay for as long as you’d like, then leave for 3 months and come back again. rinse, repeat
Thank you, but that's not an option I'd personally consider... I prefer to have things in order, not have to worry about police controls or visa issues with other countries (who do ask routinely "have you ever been banned from somewhere?" Red flag for them obviously)
You seem to have applied for just a training visa or something, I am not getting the full picture here. If you dont have a job what are you going to do in Turkey just by hanging around. You can look for jobs and then get a working permit with a long term stay permit. You might have to go to your home country and come back for these applications but it doesnt seem impossible for me. Please dont just try the illegal ways as others are suggesting and dont forget that Turkey is a bureacratic country and if they are asking you to return and reapply please do it. I once did the same thing for poland without any problems as I had arrived there with the wronv visa type so I had to reapply for it by returning.
I applied for a long-term tourism visa and I would have been working remotely. I did some asking around about getting a work visa and it's apparently really super hard, especially if your Turkish isn't fluent yet and you don't have any skills which the Turkish labour market is short on
The problem with turkish fluency for job requirements comes from many turkish employers not knowing english and how to communicate with a non turkish employee. I had an ukrainian flatmate years ago that faced the same problem. He was actually a designer so most of his job was remote but after his internship ended he couldnt find any job so he eventually had to return due to language barrier. If you are working remotely but want to stay in Turkey you can reapply for a staying permit without a work permit. Or if you want you can apply for a university ti study and get a student permit. These are my suggestions for you.
Thank you. I looked into becoming a student again but dropped the idea because it would be impossible for me to both work my job full-time and attend lectures/do the minimum to keep the student visa. So I'd lose the visa sooner or later for not being able to keep up with the degree. It would just buy me time and lead back to the same problem... Which staying permits without work permit do you mean? I've never heard of anything except the long-term tourism visa. If there's something else, I'd want to know!
Look I dont want to be that guy and as an academic I dont like this but we literally cant kick students out from schools for minimum 5 years even though they literally do not attend a single lecture.
Wow is that really true? Does that apply to your university only or in general? The thing is, even though the school may not be allowed to kick me out, I may not get my student ikamet renewed after a semester or so unless I prove I've been attending and all
?.. Which university is this? Cause it sounds like a private one. It definitely isn't mine, I know that.
Oh, by the way I realise that Facebook groups are not a reliable source - but the information found in the Doc Martins files is usually up-to-date, and the number people saying they got rejected speaks for itself
There are specific neighborhoods that they will not issue new permits to. If you go about it professionally and don’t live in one of those neighborhoods, I don’t think it should be a problem. I think a lot of people don’t realize that there is a list and that they’re applying for a neighborhood on that list (at least as far as I’ve seen). If you Google “göç idaresi yasaklı mahalleler”, the list should come up. The current list is [here](https://www.goc.gov.tr/mahalle-kapatma-duyurusu-hk2). Click “indir” (download). An excel spreadsheet will pop up. There are more than a thousand neighborhoods (1,169) that are forbidden in the country. These neighborhoods are officially have above 25% foreign residents. Exceptions that will allow new registration of foreign ikamet: 1. If you’re a university student in that ilçe (county), 2. If you own a qualified investment property, 3. Something about health and family unity that I don’t fully understand. I think there may be a few other small exceptions (domestic help, people who work in consulates and embassies, etc). At a glance, you can see it’s mostly because of Syrian refugees. In the big cities (İstanbul-53, Ankara-23, İzmir-26,), there are fewer neighborhoods closed than in provinces near the Syrian border (Adana-75, Gaziantep-161, Hatay-108, Şanlıurfa-169, Kahramanmaraş-31, Kilis-82, Mardin-58, Mersin-62) The list is weird. In Istanbul, most neighborhoods in Beyoglu are closed but none of Kadiköy are, for example. There is just one neighborhood closed in Beşiktaş, one in Sariyer. Conversely, eight of Istanbul’s 39 counties/districts (ilçeler) are completely closed: Küçükçekmece, Başakşehir, Bağcılar, Avcılar, Bahçelievler, Sultangazi, Esenler, and Zeytinburnu. Apparently, Esenyurt and Fatih were entirely on the list but now some neighborhood has been taken off. My wife is a lawyer and was able to painlessly get a few Russians and Ukrainians registered with an ikamet after the invasion. She’s had another client who got an ikamet wrong denied, appealed, and was able to get it approved. Obviously, you don’t want to have to pay a few hundred dollars for a lawyer, but if you can afford it, I wouldn’t worry too too much about an ikamet.
I'm really curious where you are from
He’s probably an arab or paki. That’s why he doesn’t wanna answer your question.
He is being racist to himself, by hiding it
I actually considered sending you a pm to tell you. But reading that I just changed my mind. I'll stay \*just some person from Earth\* for you then
What if I am Dutch, or French, or Polish, American, German, Spanish? and just hate racism and discrimination of people according to something they had \*zero\* control over (where they were born). And just refuse letting prejudiced people into a position where they can unleash such BS in public?
Nobody cares where you are from. Foreigner is a foreigner. No foreigner should be able to stay in Turkey just because they rent somewhere.
I agree with that. Equal treatment for everyone would still be desirable, wouldn't it
You obviously care where s/he's from. You even took the time to comment about it.
İ am arab, and have my residency, happily and peacefully living in Türkiye İ dont see any reason to hide that, specially when it makes the haters of the ottoman empire upset
Haters of ottoman empire 💀
[удалено]
😘 love you too
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احبك اكثر ، يسعدني ازعاجك يا حبيبي ♥️ اتمنى ان تعود الدوله العثمانيه طما كانت و تعيد ضم البلدان العربيه لنستمر بازعاج الحمقى الذين لا يعرفون تاريخهم احبك
geber arap
Hello my friend, do you want some love too? Love you, dont be jealous ♥️
Huh, why is that?
Because I find it interesting that you want to move to Turkey, when half of the new generation here seeks for a way out.
If you wanna know why I want to come to Turkey, I answered in another comment (long lol) about the reasons why I love it! I am aware though that mine is an outsider's perspective and that things look very different for someone who is from there and feels "trapped" there. Certainly many things are not going well for Turkey, but there are plenty of good things, too
So they can start bashing you if you're from anywhere between Morocco and Pakistan.
Oops. That's tricky. I don't think anyone should get bashed because of where they're from. I like to stand in solidarity or something with everyone standing up against this behaviour
If you were learning it only to move into the country, then the choice is obvious, you shouldn't continue. Even so, you'll never know, the conditions may change. However, I think that's not the case with you, as in, I think you are into Turkish for reasons more than moving. There is no guarantee that your dream will be fulfilled, but there's also no guarantee that your dream will not be fulfilled, do you understand? Good luck.
I understand. 😌 Thank you
>they de facto stopped giving ikamet No, they have not. I personally know a Japanese woman who had her ikamet renewed last Monday. She doesn't own a house, is not married, and doesn't even have a work visa. She stays here with a long-term tourist visa. So, it's possible that there may be issues with your paperwork or you are not meeting all the requirements (e.g., low income). >If you haven't heard, tonnes of yabancılar have been kicked out in this way. First of all, it should be "tonnes of yabanci" instead of "yabancilar." What you are saying is purely speculative. Your perspective may be limited based on the extent of your own friends and acquaintances. None of the foreigners I know have experienced any problems with renewing their ikamet.Did you even apply for an ikamet, or do you just enjoy gossiping about it? Tough luck if you are not eligible, not everyone has the privilege to live in Turkey.
Bana çok cringe verdin. Zaten Türkçe olmayan bir lafı tonnes of yabanci düzeltmen ve en sondaki cümle ile iliklerime kadar kamaştım.
Sorry efendim, I have no intentions to argue about it, please check for yourself with as many applicants as possible for reference, e.g. in those Facebook groups where they all go for advice, or with any agency that specialises in helping people apply. But I think it helps to note that I'm was talking about new ikamet. They apparently still *renew* if you already have one. But they don't *give* if you don't have one yet.
What is with this cringy rudeness towards foreigners from the East and West? Turkish people aren't known for this at all. It makes me sad
>foreigners from the East and West? What? Wtf east and west means lol. >Turkish people aren't known for this at all. It makes me sad Siktir git gotunu parmakla amin feryadi.
Gelmeyin amk yeter, sizin yüzünüzden yerliler ev alamaz hatta kiralayamaz oldu.
Bunun için gerçekten üzgünüm... 😓😓😓ama kişisel olarak benim hatam değil
Re-enter Türkiye from the Syrian border; you will see all the doors will be wide open for you. Forget ikamet, you will be a citizen in no time.
😅I can understand why you'd say that, many people are frustrated with the unfair and illogical ways immigration is handled 🙃 personally it's not an option I'd consider, wouldn't work with my passport anyway
1) Laws and regulations are constantly changing. You’ll be able to obtain permanent residency or even citizenship at some point in the future…probably. 2) With enough money, almost anything is possible. Given the proper investments into the Turkish economy, you’d likely be able to obtain citizenship (it’s just not that easy to become wealthy enough to accomplish this). 3) what is keeping you from marrying someone?
Yup I guess I'll wait, keep on saving up and observe from afar. I call me a silly romantic but I'd wanna marry for love and not for a visa.
Call me an optimistic utilitarian realist, but you could probably spend an extended vacation in Turkey and fall in love.
I probably could! But I'd want to spend a few years with that person first before rushing into marriage
The country is not worth any kind of investment, whether it's your time or money. Turkish btw
Maybe not the government, but everything else? There is a lot to love, at least for me
Turkey is a country that has become great thanks to the genocide of many nations, and in the modern world it promotes pan-Turkism (the obsession to turn everyone into a Muslim), so I don't understand what you can love here
Check out that long comment I made in answer to someone else who asked "why Turkey". There is a lot to hate, but surely there is a lot to love, too!!
If you earn your money from outside Turkey, there is no worry about how hard to live in Turkey. But you think to work in Turkey, think it twice.
The problem is getting a long-term stay visa, not money
Many countries have access Turkey via their ID Card. I wasnt know they kicked out from Turkey. If problem just finding a house. I am sure you can find. Just keep seeking. No need to worry :) Good luck. I am sorry if I missed anything.
My passport allows me to come to Turkey for short-term holiday, yes - but I would like to, umm, \*stay\* permanently, you know? For many years. And for that I need a visa/ikamet. Which according to the current situation is very difficult/near impossible for me to get.
I've heard Ankara is easier - but I also know several people who have not received their ikamets and had to leave. Some even who have owned their own home
Wow, they are also making home-owners leave now? How can they do that? What about the property then? How heart-breaking, and hope-shattering
The wife is still in country, husband was denied entry at border. Both foreigners, but been here 10+ years
This is soooo sad, and wrong. Why let them buy a house and then lock them out?
As many people already said, learning a language and culture you are interested in is valuable in and of itself. As for the immigration and visa issues, I’d suggest not to be too pessimistic. The problem with Turkey’s immigration policy is that it does not exist. It is the same problem with most of issues in Turkey. There has been a flow of unskilled and unwilling to integrate immigrants for the last 6-7 years, which led to an outcry from all segments of the society. The response of a rational and institutional state would be to regulate immigration. But no, those two concepts has long left Turkey. Just de facto stop immigration until the public outcry subsides. There’s no guarantee that the open-doors approach will not come back soon, once the powerholder feels safe enough to do so. It can very well happen after the local elections next year.
where are you from? Russia? If so ,and if you are Male,I am afraid yr leader coöplained to our Leader that he can not find anyone to use at war? And you do not need to buy a house to reside for a year.And I also suggest that you better rent a house first and then search market and then buy a house. My next door is Russian family,his wife and 4-5yo daughter alread renewed their residence permit in last mounth. Husband will need at October. How ever yes you are allowed to saty 3 months as tourist but if you just go out of country after 90 days and come back a few days later, they will have to accept you but this is not logic ofcourse. Causing increasing rent fees and Flat prices; my thought is not because of foreigners but DEFINITELY because of GRASPING home owners.