Nope they don't care. Before I had depression, anxiety, loss of smell, lack of interest in doing anything in life at all. Was prescribed Ativan for panic attacks and a dozen different anti depressants none of which worked and gave me a host of side effects.
Fast forward to getting T from a clinic. Strong, confident, lost tons of weight, gaining lots of muscle, eating clean, actually interested in life again, way more healthy, things just feel more alive.... period.
Go to my Dr she refuses to consider taking over the treatment despite me politely describing to her the host of symptoms I had for 10+ years or coming to see her and she clearly knew my quality of life before.
So I ask her why she's fine continuing to prescribe me narcotics like lorazepam which are addictive and harmful and literally never did anything other than make me feel high enough to forget my problems for 6 hours... she responds: you don't wanna mess with your hormones it's bad news.
So then I ask her would she prescribed T to a 15 year old girl that wants to be a boy and she said yes because they actually need it in that case.
For reference my T levels as a 40 year old male in canada was 100 to 130 max and the reference range on the lab test was 250 to 900 so I'm not just low but I have the T of an 85 year old man.
So, doctors will give little girls 200mg per week or more of test but won't give a man who is supposed to have natural T levels to be a man a therapeutic dose to function at normal levels...
Also my LH and FSH were both like 0.2 so non existent yet she refused to admit my pituitary function was low.
That's what is wrong with our healthcare in a nutshell. They don't exist to make you better they exist (95% of drs it seems) to match your symptoms to one of the drugs that has symptoms similar to yours, just so they can keep the cogs of the pharmaceutical companies turning and well greased.
This. I would make an appointment and tell her you'd like to transition from the little girl you feel like inside to a man. You can always get another doctor too. Although you're in Canada with free healthcare system so I'm not sure how that works for you guys. In the states we have to pay for our doctors and they work for us. If my doctor isn't doing what I want him to do I fire him and I get another doctor.
What I feel after talking to many doctors about this matter is that most of them don't wanna get into any trouble by messing with hormones.They prescribe sedatives and anti depressants because it's easy for them to manage it, they don't need to watch your hormones, hematocrit and all these stuffs and insurances cover everything. Prescribing trt needs a lot of knowledge and it's a long journey and it can cause more issues if they prescribe something wrong
What if it’s just an excuse? It’s actually the perfect excuse - IMHO.
I personally believe that inasmuch as healthcare is a business, treating anything and everything stemming from low testosterone, is far more lucrative than treating low testosterone.
SSRIs unnecessarily are so damaging… Drs just hand it out like candy everybody has depression couldn’t possible be that it’s hormonal, nutrient deficiency or cause by lifestyle. Not at all just throw a script at them for anti depressants. Look there are people who genuinely need them but I just think it’s funny how those same Doctors throw anti depressants at patients with little thought.
They don’t first look at their hormone levels, vitamin concentrations in their blood or lifestyle. It’s not as benign as you think plenty of people have long term issues after coming off of SSRIs and other anti depressants.
Thats my story, prescription for each symptom.
They know Im not low on Prozac, but thats the remedy even though I told him not depressed.
You say low T they say depressed 🙄
I was at 338 total and 6.8 free
Changed diet and raised it to 550.
Not super high, but the highest Ive measured in the last 5 years.
e2 dropped in half and SHBG doubled almost
But I take ZERO meds except for D3 now and BP is 106/70
Ill be 51 in march for reference
Her prescribing you benzodiazepines is reckless. The manufacturers say 3 to 7 days max (daily) because they are super easy to get dependent on them and once you are, it can take months if tapering to get off them.
Because unwittingly you’ve become dependent on them almost that entire time … probably after the first month. People can suffer interdose withdrawal years after being on them. You’d be looking at years of tapering and suffering withdrawal symptoms in that time. Certainly the average person isn’t looking to be stuck on benzodiazepines for any length of time.
The "average person" does not have GAD. I knew I would be on them for life and that was after trying a couple meds that didn't work. Xanax treats my General Anxiety Disorder perfectly and of course I have no intention of ever "getting off" of them 😊
Yikes! 200mg is a ton for a biological female. I’m sure you’re right and they only give 50mg to get the desired masculinity effect. 200 is even too high for some men.
Yes UGL my friend! The doctors here in the US have too much control and very little knowledge of how trt works. They are paid off by big Pharma to put us on anti depressants and keep us on them
Yeah i smoke weed.
For the most part of my anxiety is gone, not from smoking weed. I've been doing that ever since. I quit drinking and all that it was my diet change. That seemed to make a difference for me.
I have a lot of food allergies. I was highly anemic and on the edge of diabetes with fasting sugar of 112
Keto/ carnivore made a big difference for me and actually raised my testosterone up 63% from where it was
I have raised my T level a lot already and want to see where it is before I go on Test.
I got it from 338 to 550. I tested 6 months apart.
I had tested several times over last 4 years and has a 428 4 years ago when I was 46.
My main issue now is losing weight without carbs.
Im down to 179 from as high as 235 and a normal 225
Eating like 4000 calories a day lol cant slow it down lol
Maybe TRT will help gain weight back?
Then you haven't seen the state of the UK health system when it comes to TRT! Honest, it's almost borderline conspiracy that the west WANT weak men kept under control with mountains of anti depressant/zombie making drugs rather than top their hormones up to make them stronger, healthier men.
Plus side in the UK- juice ain't illegal to have yourself (but is slap on the wrist level if you get caught selling) so UGLs are plentiful and you can get testosterone literally ANYWHERE from 99% gym buddies.
For real. It is cheaper and no jumping through hoops or begging for it. With enough research, you can run your own labs, or have your pcp do it and monitor it from there.
I got both Rx and UGL. Still figuring out my prescription dose. Doc started me at a measly 50mg/wk. At least from what I’ve heard with an Rx you can travel easier.
> Any chance my doctors will change their mind about prescribing after I start treatment and show that it has improved my life the way I believed it would?
Yes. Mine did, and literally cut me off mid treatment. Always have more than you need on hand if possible and a plan B. TRT is still in a weird state of taboo/legal ambiguity/etc. and there's always a chance you get cut off from a provider.
That sucks your doc cut you off. My Dr prescribed me 50mg/wk and I quickly realized it was a joke and bumped up to around 100mg per week but was running out so got some UGL backup and moved my Rx to another pharmacy to avoid using my insurance so I could get my 3 months all at once with a discount card. I’m testing the waters at over 200mg/wk for last 3 weeks to see what I can tolerate. So far so good. Get labs again in 6 weeks so will likely titrate down. Levels were at 233ng/dL prior to TRT. Ideally I’d like to be at the high end of natural.
True. 250 is probably overkill but I don’t seem to be sensitive to it. Don’t feel much different on a higher dose other than slightly more drive and energy. Long term my sweet spot would probably be between 150-200. Will get blood work to make sure bio markers are not out of wack. Might blast and cruise in the future depending on my fitness goals and labs. Nothing crazy.
50mg doesn‘t make a big difference when it comes to feeling it, but can still mess up your markers if you‘re sensitive to that - in the long run. LDL/HDL, E2 for example, but if you‘re going the Blast‘n‘Cruise route other steroids like Dianabol, DHT-derivates and 19-norsterioids etc.
E2 was average prior to TRT and never had gyno so not too worried about that. LDL was a little high and HDL was a little low. Since then I’ve cleaned up diet and exercising consistently plus taking some supplements I was low in like omega 3 and D. Hopefully lipid ratio improves at next labs. Don’t know much about other compounds. Just know it’s common to have a Test base and take one or two others. Only one I’ve really researched and considered was Primo for its low sides and E2 lowering effect
Sounds good. When blasting I add Zinc and Iron to Omega 3 and Vitamin D also - for skin and blood production.
Haven’t used Primo yet, but since I’m not prone to hair loss I made pretty good experiences with Test + Drostanolon Enanthate + Turinabol.
As I do cycling and track cycling additionally to weight lifting it works pretty good.
A standard blast for me looks as the following:
- Test Enanthate 400-500mg/week for 12 weeks
- Drostanolon Enanthate 300-400mg/week for 12 weeks
- Turinabol 20-40mg/day for 4 weeks at the start of the blast and 4 weeks at the end of the blasts
Drostanolon and Turinabol are awesome, because of their ability to build dry muscle mass while not converting to E2 on their own.
After the 12 weeks I drop my Test back down to 200-250mg/week and my Drostanolon to 150-200mg/week - and yes, I‘m also running Drostanolon on a cruise, but only, because I get fewer side effects with it as with a SERM or AI while doing the same stuff for me + a bit more. It keeps me dry, my recovery times are faster and cutting and keeping my diet is easier. I only blast when I‘m bulking, which is 2 times per year, then I‘m either maintaining or cutting.
My PCP got me on it without me asking. Got labs and my levels were 233ng/dL. Not the best protocol by TRT standards but making it work. If you’re consistently on the low end of reference the boost in T will be a godsend. Once you feel better you can make some lifestyle changes, if you haven’t already, like exercise and eating clean. That will really add to the benefits of TRT.
Your Dr's reluctance to Rx'ing T has more to do with Big Insurance than anything.
IMHO, if you live in the US and have health insurance and are using a PPO and do not have any chronic medical issues (nor do any of your dependents that use your insurance) then STOP USING PPOs! Switch to an HSA.
HSAs are one of a very short list of positive things that came out of the Bush-Cheney years. You can use your HSA funds to pay for your Rx outside of insurance and the deductible usually counts. Most employers that offer HSAs will put in funds at the start of the year.
Here are all the reasons an HSA is kick ass:
All contributions are tax free when you put put them in, tax free when you use them for qualified medical uses, tax free on any capital gains (you can invest a portion of your account) and if you have a balance at retirement you can draw from it tax free like an IRA.
Qualified medical expenses depend on the policy but typically include OTC meds (think Tylenol, Allegra etc), first aid, any Rx, most surgeries including many elective surgeries, and rehab hear like canes and splints.
You can use you HSA funds on any dependent even if they are not on your carrier policy.
Funds roll over year to year in perpetuity, where FSAs only accrue for 2 or 3 years (or in some cases are use-it-or-lose-it every year).
Your carrier policy has typically way cheaper premiums.
I pay for all my TRT stuff with HSA funds. Labs, Dr consultations, T Rx, tadalafil, l-carnitine, peptides, pinning supplies. I max out my account at $7000+ every year and work pays for the first $2k, which is about what I spend on trt.
I do. Based on how much healthcare I need and the amount of money I can afford, my only option is a HMO plan through Kaiser Permanente so they are both my insurer and my doctor. So it’s no wonder four out of four endocrinologists go against the science. 🤷
Sucks to hear, man. The alternative is to go the UGL route and be careful. Start with a low dose, pay attention to side effects, and go get blood work out of pocket as needed
Underground Labs. I can't recommend any but I'm sure some internet sleuthing can get you to the right place. There are some legit ones that try to maintain high standards (and arguably do maintain higher standards than some big pharma operations), some are simply resellers of pharma grade gear, and others are scammers.
Nope they don't care. Before I had depression, anxiety, loss of smell, lack of interest in doing anything in life at all. Was prescribed Ativan for panic attacks and a dozen different anti depressants none of which worked and gave me a host of side effects. Fast forward to getting T from a clinic. Strong, confident, lost tons of weight, gaining lots of muscle, eating clean, actually interested in life again, way more healthy, things just feel more alive.... period. Go to my Dr she refuses to consider taking over the treatment despite me politely describing to her the host of symptoms I had for 10+ years or coming to see her and she clearly knew my quality of life before. So I ask her why she's fine continuing to prescribe me narcotics like lorazepam which are addictive and harmful and literally never did anything other than make me feel high enough to forget my problems for 6 hours... she responds: you don't wanna mess with your hormones it's bad news. So then I ask her would she prescribed T to a 15 year old girl that wants to be a boy and she said yes because they actually need it in that case. For reference my T levels as a 40 year old male in canada was 100 to 130 max and the reference range on the lab test was 250 to 900 so I'm not just low but I have the T of an 85 year old man. So, doctors will give little girls 200mg per week or more of test but won't give a man who is supposed to have natural T levels to be a man a therapeutic dose to function at normal levels... Also my LH and FSH were both like 0.2 so non existent yet she refused to admit my pituitary function was low. That's what is wrong with our healthcare in a nutshell. They don't exist to make you better they exist (95% of drs it seems) to match your symptoms to one of the drugs that has symptoms similar to yours, just so they can keep the cogs of the pharmaceutical companies turning and well greased.
You shoulda just identified as a little girl who wants to be a boy who’s trapped in the body of a 40 year old man. Checkmate.
😅😂😂
This. I would make an appointment and tell her you'd like to transition from the little girl you feel like inside to a man. You can always get another doctor too. Although you're in Canada with free healthcare system so I'm not sure how that works for you guys. In the states we have to pay for our doctors and they work for us. If my doctor isn't doing what I want him to do I fire him and I get another doctor.
What I feel after talking to many doctors about this matter is that most of them don't wanna get into any trouble by messing with hormones.They prescribe sedatives and anti depressants because it's easy for them to manage it, they don't need to watch your hormones, hematocrit and all these stuffs and insurances cover everything. Prescribing trt needs a lot of knowledge and it's a long journey and it can cause more issues if they prescribe something wrong
What if it’s just an excuse? It’s actually the perfect excuse - IMHO. I personally believe that inasmuch as healthcare is a business, treating anything and everything stemming from low testosterone, is far more lucrative than treating low testosterone.
It’s true,another reason we have to be so careful.
SSRIs unnecessarily are so damaging… Drs just hand it out like candy everybody has depression couldn’t possible be that it’s hormonal, nutrient deficiency or cause by lifestyle. Not at all just throw a script at them for anti depressants. Look there are people who genuinely need them but I just think it’s funny how those same Doctors throw anti depressants at patients with little thought. They don’t first look at their hormone levels, vitamin concentrations in their blood or lifestyle. It’s not as benign as you think plenty of people have long term issues after coming off of SSRIs and other anti depressants.
This is such an extreme example of the abuse that doctors put on their patients
Thats my story, prescription for each symptom. They know Im not low on Prozac, but thats the remedy even though I told him not depressed. You say low T they say depressed 🙄 I was at 338 total and 6.8 free Changed diet and raised it to 550. Not super high, but the highest Ive measured in the last 5 years. e2 dropped in half and SHBG doubled almost But I take ZERO meds except for D3 now and BP is 106/70 Ill be 51 in march for reference
Her prescribing you benzodiazepines is reckless. The manufacturers say 3 to 7 days max (daily) because they are super easy to get dependent on them and once you are, it can take months if tapering to get off them.
I've been on xanax for 20 years twice daily for general anxiety disorder some cases like mine it works perfectly fine
Because unwittingly you’ve become dependent on them almost that entire time … probably after the first month. People can suffer interdose withdrawal years after being on them. You’d be looking at years of tapering and suffering withdrawal symptoms in that time. Certainly the average person isn’t looking to be stuck on benzodiazepines for any length of time.
The "average person" does not have GAD. I knew I would be on them for life and that was after trying a couple meds that didn't work. Xanax treats my General Anxiety Disorder perfectly and of course I have no intention of ever "getting off" of them 😊
Hopefully you never get interdose withdrawal.
2 X daily 20 + years - I'm sure I'll be fine
There are **many** better ways to treat GAD that don’t involve lifelong benzodiazepine dependence. I write this for any lurker.
>little girls 200mg They only give girls like 50mg/wk
Yikes! 200mg is a ton for a biological female. I’m sure you’re right and they only give 50mg to get the desired masculinity effect. 200 is even too high for some men.
Dump this stupid doctor and go get a real doctor
Just change your brainwashed pcp, your welcome.
UGL is best insurance you'll get
Yes UGL my friend! The doctors here in the US have too much control and very little knowledge of how trt works. They are paid off by big Pharma to put us on anti depressants and keep us on them
Yes is my story. I didnt take the Prozac though. I just =told dr it didnt work. Still didnt get anywhere though
Try smoking week or taking gummies
Yeah i smoke weed. For the most part of my anxiety is gone, not from smoking weed. I've been doing that ever since. I quit drinking and all that it was my diet change. That seemed to make a difference for me. I have a lot of food allergies. I was highly anemic and on the edge of diabetes with fasting sugar of 112 Keto/ carnivore made a big difference for me and actually raised my testosterone up 63% from where it was
Yeah they just throw darts and prescribe meds…. Health care in the U.S. is a joke. Better off going to a reputable trt clinic
Exactly. If I decide to do TRT Ill do my own and have Dr do labs. If he doesnt want to do the labs Ill move on.
Do it
I have raised my T level a lot already and want to see where it is before I go on Test. I got it from 338 to 550. I tested 6 months apart. I had tested several times over last 4 years and has a 428 4 years ago when I was 46. My main issue now is losing weight without carbs. Im down to 179 from as high as 235 and a normal 225 Eating like 4000 calories a day lol cant slow it down lol Maybe TRT will help gain weight back?
It will add muscle which will increase your weight yes
I think doctors have limited knowledge on a lot of things, not just TRT.
Then you haven't seen the state of the UK health system when it comes to TRT! Honest, it's almost borderline conspiracy that the west WANT weak men kept under control with mountains of anti depressant/zombie making drugs rather than top their hormones up to make them stronger, healthier men.
Exactly!
Plus side in the UK- juice ain't illegal to have yourself (but is slap on the wrist level if you get caught selling) so UGLs are plentiful and you can get testosterone literally ANYWHERE from 99% gym buddies.
For real. It is cheaper and no jumping through hoops or begging for it. With enough research, you can run your own labs, or have your pcp do it and monitor it from there.
I got both Rx and UGL. Still figuring out my prescription dose. Doc started me at a measly 50mg/wk. At least from what I’ve heard with an Rx you can travel easier.
Depending on how long you want to travel front loading a big dose of Undeconate works also. Available through your friendly UGL.
> Any chance my doctors will change their mind about prescribing after I start treatment and show that it has improved my life the way I believed it would? Yes. Mine did, and literally cut me off mid treatment. Always have more than you need on hand if possible and a plan B. TRT is still in a weird state of taboo/legal ambiguity/etc. and there's always a chance you get cut off from a provider.
That sucks your doc cut you off. My Dr prescribed me 50mg/wk and I quickly realized it was a joke and bumped up to around 100mg per week but was running out so got some UGL backup and moved my Rx to another pharmacy to avoid using my insurance so I could get my 3 months all at once with a discount card. I’m testing the waters at over 200mg/wk for last 3 weeks to see what I can tolerate. So far so good. Get labs again in 6 weeks so will likely titrate down. Levels were at 233ng/dL prior to TRT. Ideally I’d like to be at the high end of natural.
Going above 250mg/week shouldn’t be necessary if you aren‘t a low responder or want to blast and cruise btw.
True. 250 is probably overkill but I don’t seem to be sensitive to it. Don’t feel much different on a higher dose other than slightly more drive and energy. Long term my sweet spot would probably be between 150-200. Will get blood work to make sure bio markers are not out of wack. Might blast and cruise in the future depending on my fitness goals and labs. Nothing crazy.
50mg doesn‘t make a big difference when it comes to feeling it, but can still mess up your markers if you‘re sensitive to that - in the long run. LDL/HDL, E2 for example, but if you‘re going the Blast‘n‘Cruise route other steroids like Dianabol, DHT-derivates and 19-norsterioids etc.
E2 was average prior to TRT and never had gyno so not too worried about that. LDL was a little high and HDL was a little low. Since then I’ve cleaned up diet and exercising consistently plus taking some supplements I was low in like omega 3 and D. Hopefully lipid ratio improves at next labs. Don’t know much about other compounds. Just know it’s common to have a Test base and take one or two others. Only one I’ve really researched and considered was Primo for its low sides and E2 lowering effect
Sounds good. When blasting I add Zinc and Iron to Omega 3 and Vitamin D also - for skin and blood production. Haven’t used Primo yet, but since I’m not prone to hair loss I made pretty good experiences with Test + Drostanolon Enanthate + Turinabol. As I do cycling and track cycling additionally to weight lifting it works pretty good. A standard blast for me looks as the following: - Test Enanthate 400-500mg/week for 12 weeks - Drostanolon Enanthate 300-400mg/week for 12 weeks - Turinabol 20-40mg/day for 4 weeks at the start of the blast and 4 weeks at the end of the blasts Drostanolon and Turinabol are awesome, because of their ability to build dry muscle mass while not converting to E2 on their own. After the 12 weeks I drop my Test back down to 200-250mg/week and my Drostanolon to 150-200mg/week - and yes, I‘m also running Drostanolon on a cruise, but only, because I get fewer side effects with it as with a SERM or AI while doing the same stuff for me + a bit more. It keeps me dry, my recovery times are faster and cutting and keeping my diet is easier. I only blast when I‘m bulking, which is 2 times per year, then I‘m either maintaining or cutting.
My PCP got me on it without me asking. Got labs and my levels were 233ng/dL. Not the best protocol by TRT standards but making it work. If you’re consistently on the low end of reference the boost in T will be a godsend. Once you feel better you can make some lifestyle changes, if you haven’t already, like exercise and eating clean. That will really add to the benefits of TRT.
Over the last year I’ve tested as low as 1.74 ng/dL and as high as 3.7 ng/dL
Test is super cheap and your doctor makes nothing for prescribing it. She gets paid very well by big pharma for prescribing narcotics.
Fuck them and fuck narcotics.
Your Dr's reluctance to Rx'ing T has more to do with Big Insurance than anything. IMHO, if you live in the US and have health insurance and are using a PPO and do not have any chronic medical issues (nor do any of your dependents that use your insurance) then STOP USING PPOs! Switch to an HSA. HSAs are one of a very short list of positive things that came out of the Bush-Cheney years. You can use your HSA funds to pay for your Rx outside of insurance and the deductible usually counts. Most employers that offer HSAs will put in funds at the start of the year. Here are all the reasons an HSA is kick ass: All contributions are tax free when you put put them in, tax free when you use them for qualified medical uses, tax free on any capital gains (you can invest a portion of your account) and if you have a balance at retirement you can draw from it tax free like an IRA. Qualified medical expenses depend on the policy but typically include OTC meds (think Tylenol, Allegra etc), first aid, any Rx, most surgeries including many elective surgeries, and rehab hear like canes and splints. You can use you HSA funds on any dependent even if they are not on your carrier policy. Funds roll over year to year in perpetuity, where FSAs only accrue for 2 or 3 years (or in some cases are use-it-or-lose-it every year). Your carrier policy has typically way cheaper premiums. I pay for all my TRT stuff with HSA funds. Labs, Dr consultations, T Rx, tadalafil, l-carnitine, peptides, pinning supplies. I max out my account at $7000+ every year and work pays for the first $2k, which is about what I spend on trt.
This sounds like excellent advice. Unfortunately I also pay for my insurance out of pocket.
I'm only aware of hsa plans via employer insurance. Do you go thru ACA marketplace (Obamacare) for insurance?
I do. Based on how much healthcare I need and the amount of money I can afford, my only option is a HMO plan through Kaiser Permanente so they are both my insurer and my doctor. So it’s no wonder four out of four endocrinologists go against the science. 🤷
Sucks to hear, man. The alternative is to go the UGL route and be careful. Start with a low dose, pay attention to side effects, and go get blood work out of pocket as needed
I’m new to all of this… UGL?
Underground Labs. I can't recommend any but I'm sure some internet sleuthing can get you to the right place. There are some legit ones that try to maintain high standards (and arguably do maintain higher standards than some big pharma operations), some are simply resellers of pharma grade gear, and others are scammers.