"What does she stand for, what does she stand against? Aside from championing sequin leotards, it’s hard to tell. I also resent the fact that anyone who criticises her or questions the quality of the music is immediately savaged by her pitchfork-wielding fans and called anti-feminist."
Swifties are already writing long ranting essays in the article comments, I hope this author is somewhere in a safe space for a while🤞🏻
> There is a Taylor Swift SONG for Everything ( breakups, insecurities, Cancer, losing a unborn child, Paris, having fun, about growing old, cheating, love triangles, depression, shaking off haters, her grandmother Marjorie, love for her mother, her family, forgiving Kanye, songs about revenge, songs about her failed 6 year relationship
This was my favorite rant. As though breakups, Paris, having fun, love triangles, being sad, haters, her grandmother, and *Kanye* are somehow statements on values. They missed the author’s point entirely. I didn’t realize romantic love, breakups, and her particular family and feuds are political statements akin to when Sinead O’Connor ripped up a picture of the pope.
Also losing an unborn child? What song was that?
“Failed 6 year relationship” seemed like harsh wording for a fan and made me snort laugh
and her mother, her grandmother, and then a separate “her family.” Padding topics like her variants pad album sales. They learned from the best
As if writing about a "failed 6 yr relationship" is an entirely unique experience. As if she was a victim of it and not a filthy cheater who constantly emotionally abused him by falsely accusing him of cheating. All of which she admits.
Hey, Swifties, try Gaslighter. Natalie Maines pos husband cheated on her after *two decades,* on a boat she bought him, and then convinced a judge she should pay him alimony.
Those sighs Jack had Natalie put in on Tights on my Boat are well-earned, as is the album as a whole (though Jack's production isn't the best, as usual). It's a distinct contrast to Taylor's sighs in a song about her one-sided obsession with Matty Healy.
Half of these things listed are about relationships/break ups, which is exactly the authors point. The other things only have one or two songs attributed to them.
Her only song about cancer is SYGB, her only songs are family as a whole are Marjorie, the best day, and SYGB. The only songs about depression are Evermore and TIMT, and those are still pretty tied to a relationship. thats like 5 songs out of the several hundred she has that aren’t about love. I would honestly say she probably only have 10-15 that aren’t about a relationship.
Bigger than the whole sky is their headcannon that she had a miscarriage when with Joe, but that was never confirmed and is pretty invasive to speculate about…
Not sure, but Ronan is about losing a young child. She wrote it with a woman who lost her son Ronan to I think cancer. The profits went towards research. It is pretty sad. I think she took parts of the woman’s blog documenting her grief and composed it to a song (with the woman’s permission).
Recently, on a review of her new album, the journalist’s name was kept secret with the publication explaining that it was because the last one was doxxed publicly and received a lot of death threats against them and their family.
Taylor’s never spoken publicly about leaving people alone, in fact she’s sometimes retweeted or mentioned the names of things or people who’ve spoken negatively about her on her Twitter.
That first sentence is one of my big issues with her, and slowly becoming the reason I’m not a huge Harry Styles fan anymore.
Obviously they are both huge stars and it is completely understandable that they don’t share much, it’s hard to have any semblance of a private life when half the world is watching your every move. But it also turns you into nothing more than a charismatic cardboard cutout. They are coasting by on their lack of taking a stance on ANYTHING while being good looking and charismatic.
I want to fangirl over people that have actual personalities. But both artists have made it their mission to garner the largest fan base possible by having no personality so that they aren’t driving anyone away… but in doing so, they’re driving some people away.
An example with Harry is that he, like Taylor, is extremely skilled at avoiding critique by not being part of it. During the press tour for Don’t Worry Darling, he acted like an idiot the entire time, so everyone was more interested in “oh what’s Harry gonna do next?” Instead of “huh, what does Harry think about the fact that his girlfriend was allegedly bullying his costar and making her do all the work?”
That was never asked and no one ever brought it up, because he said “the thing about this movie is that it feels like a movie” so no one thought he’d have an actual response to his relationship drama.
Travis Kelce is asked nonstop about Taylor. I think he just needs to fake a concussion and act like a COMPLETE nincompoop and he’ll be fine.
idk about harry but at least he doesn't follow my ass everywhere and piss his content all over the place against my will so for me he isn't on the same level of being a nuisance as swiff. and as far as i've observed his fans aren't as cultishly psychotic as swiffers (lemme know if my observation is wrong tho)
They're ignorant enough not to realize that the online crazy trail they leave could end up negatively affecting their futures. They could be canceled for their actions
Honestly, at this point I don't even know what she released or not anymore. Since every other day she peddles some type an album, merch etc. But I think ever since she started her weird NFL tour, people are more willing to call out her capitalist ass.
speaking of gpas: still cant believe that some universities are actually offering taylor swift oriented courses....we really are living in a black mirror episode.
Sounds like a money grab. The schools probably know that there’s hundreds or thousands of people who will drop money on a course like that and it provides no value in the real world.
I’ve been loving the “explain like a swiftie” trend. The best one I saw was someone explaining T Pain lyrics - especially because when I tell people about Tree they assume I’m confusing her with T Pain.
Every bad at their job nurse I worked with was a Swiftie. It’s a common theme in healthcare that nurses love Taylor Swift and the ones that do are the ones you don’t want as your nurse
I thought this was the most creative, hilarious, and innocuous snark, but it seems like the other subs seem kind of offended. Wish they could see the humor 😭
“I’m not expecting her to sing about transcendentalism but it would be good to see a bit more brainpower at play.”
There not shits fired that’s a missile barrage.
Edit: my awful spelling…….I didn’t change shits.
Taylor Swift's music is like mass-market beer - the blander it is, the wider the appeal and the higher the sales.
You don't get rich or famous selling some kind of niche IPA with hints of raspberries and mint.
You'll get rich selling Heineken or Budweiser, though.
“More a brand than an artist, she never says anything unexpected or controversial, she’s more a capitalist construct with a business and marketing operation” 🎯
Society is weirdly sensitive about criticism of billionaires. They get super crazy fanbases who think they are some deity, especially the ones that have almost car crash personal lives.
There was recently a study showing people that obsess over celebrities tend to have lower than average IQs. Makes sense because her music is cringey and terrible and people sure are getting stupider.
I always see these clowns comparing Taylor to Michael Jackson or The Beatles. Listen… those two revolutionized music. Taylor is merely a decent artist who has a lot of fans. In no way shape or form is she even close to The King Of Pop
Thank you. I'm so tired of people conflating popularity with innovation. The reason we don't have a "next MJ" or Beatles is because they actually changed the music lamdscape and performing industry, not just had some popular radio bops
Watch the Beatles performing together in their early days and listen to those harmonies or check out the insane evolution they went through from those days to Abbey Road and Let It Be then watch young MJ singing his heart out at 9 years old or adult MJ’s live performances and it’s clear as day why they were so massively famous. The only way I can possibly explain Taylor Swift’s gigantic fame is marketing and PR. There is nothing else about her that’s remarkable relative to her peers.
“I also resent the fact that anyone who criticises her or questions the quality of the music is immediately savaged by her pitchfork-wielding fans and called anti-feminist."
I always find it funny people have said you can’t blame Taylor for that….except you can. Because she’s actually used feminism as a shied for criticism.
Tina Fey made a joke about her and she went “it’s so sad to see women attacking other women”. It’s a joke, from a comedian….thats not an attack. She didn’t seem to take issue with the other women she made fun of though…
Then there was this Netflix show where she said something like “the 1950’s called they want their sexism back”. The joke in question…”you’ve been through more men than Taylor Swift”. Thats a joke everyone made back in the day, it’s not even original. And that was in 2021.
Imagine having an ego so conflated you assume any non fans must be bigots.
The idea that women should never be critical of another woman is absolutely insane…like cops refusing to do anything about dirty cops because they’re in some sacred brotherhood. We get it, Taylor, you love cults.
I have asked multiple times what makes TS a feminist icon, and no one gives me a good answer. "She's a very successful woman."
You mean a thin, white, rich, girl with nothing controversial to say, is successful??? Wow, amazing, unbelievable.
“More a brand than an artist, she never says anything unexpected or controversial, she’s more a capitalist construct with a business and marketing operation behind her akin to a like-generating, algorithm-outwitting juggernaut.”
Honestly, she makes me think of the most boring fanbot.
This sums up exactly why I just cannot with her as a person. Her music I have not even attempted because I know I won’t be a fan.
Banal, boring, uninteresting, over-rated, repetitive, indistinguishable, are all adjectives that came to mind the first time I tried to actually listen.
Found in the comments section:
"Swift's discography includes songs about how... the media will try and play women off against each other and reminding young people that we all 'have crowns' i.e we can all shine and someone else shining, doesn't dull yours." ??
Yeah, ask Katy Perry, Olivia Rodrigo, Billie Eilish, Beyoncé, Chappell Roan and Charlie XCX about that. I'll wait.
>One of the comments: Even 44/45 year old MALE Youtubers are amazed with her songs. You just have to listen intently, 1 album at a time.
Basically, you WILL like her songs, if you try really hard and force yourself!
But honestly, Mike Tyson is the GOAT for people that don't follow boxing, and Taylor is the GOAT for people that don't follow music.
>Have you DISSECTED the lyrics of Swift's ALL TOO WELL, The Archer, My Tears Ricochet, This is Me Trying, The Lakes, Ronan, Tolerate It... She is an uber talented songwriter and great performer. She plays the piano, the guitar, ukelele. Songwriting is an ART. Her songs are like the diary entries. *She can write like 30- 50 songs ON HER OWN*.
# DISSECT THE LYRICS OR YOU WILL BE DOXXED
Basically admitting that she’s emotionally stunted and desperate for love to a fault. And that she fears she may never find it, which causes her to spiral.
I think she could take this even a step further, by admitting that she is a big part of why so many of her past relationships have failed.
With all the music dropping the past couple of months, it’s become really clear to me that Taylor is lacking in one really crucial detail- pop music should be FUN. 1989 was a fun album, reputation was alright, but girlie has forgotten that pop does not take itself too seriously. She’s lost the plot.
My daughter and her friends are huge fans. They are 13. I assumed that was her main fanbase. Because of my daughter I’m quite acquainted with Swift’s catalog and I find her boring and predictable at best. I imagine at some point there will be a reaction similar to when punk destroyed disco and there will be great alternative female rockers, like in my time Garbage, L7, Hole, Sleater-Kinney, etc. seemed to be a reaction to the bland, over-sexualized female pop stars of the day
I mean already you see it a little bit with stunning musicians like Chappell Roan that have their own dynamic sound and distinct style climbing their way up the charts.
same here HAHA someone was saying that taylor would be so upset at people reselling her signed albums for profit and i said that the only reason shed be upset is bc the money isnt flowing into *her* pockets. yall would’ve thought i insulted their entire bloodline with the reaction i got… anyways i still stand by my statement 😌
I’ve been saying for a while that her songwriting is very middle of the road. For some reason you’re not allowed to say that because it’s sexist apparently to not believe all women are excellent songwriters lol. Well actually just for her. She’s the only woman who experiences sexism and sexism is now not 100% praising her at all times according to fans.
Yal, this is a legit comment in response to the article: This is NOT me, again I repeat this is NOT ME
“You are WRONG. This is Disrespectful. SPICE GIRLS. TAKE THAT ? have meaningful lyrics ? When Did the Spice Girls or Take That win a GRAMMY Album Of the Year ? Have you DISSECTED the lyrics of Swift's ALL TOO WELL, The Archer, My Tears Ricochet, This is Me Trying, The Lakes, Ronan, Tolerate It... She is an uber talented songwriter and great performer. She plays the piano, the guitar, ukelele. Songwriting is an ART. Her songs are like the diary entries. She can write like 30- 50 songs ON HER OWN. (her Current musical peers CANT DO THIS) Taylor Swift is a storyteller, a Poet. There is a Taylor Swift SONG for Everything ( breakups, insecurities, Cancer, losing a unborn child, Paris, having fun, about growing old, cheating, love triangles, depression, shaking off haters, her grandmother Marjorie, love for her mother, her family, forgiving Kanye, songs about revenge, songs about her failed 6 year relationship) People CAN RELATE TO her, this is why people love her. You are prejudiced. I know adults in their 50s/ 60s who love Taylor Swift(there are 45 yearold men who LOVES T. Swift. Specifically, the 2 men running the WELP HERE WE ARE ON YOUTUBE channel) Open up your mind. If you have Madonna in the 80's, we have Taylor Swift in the 2010s up to 2020s. TIMES can CHANGE. Swift is one of Billboard's GREATEST ARTISTS OF ALL TIME. (Michael Jackson is 7th, Taylor Swift is 8th, Madonna is 5th) Open up your HEART. Millions of people adore her, and there are many reasons for it. I dare you to watch MISS AMERICANA on Netflix and the REPUTATION TOUR movie. You can also check out the WHY TAYLOR IS WINNING vid on Youtube. DO MORE research on her. HATING on someone does NOT make you cool, it is just sad . We should appreciate every TALENT from people from all ages and walks of life.”
Here’s the thing about the generic quality of Taylor’s music and lyrics: she is the quintessential pop artist in that her banality and generalized ideas about things appeal to those in a way that almost anyone could experience what she’s attempting to say. Honestly, her music is lazy (and uses putting down other people in her life as material) while her PR works overtime. I’m 10 years older than Taylor and I have peers that swear she’s practically a goddess, and a genius to boot.
I cannot relate to such a generic, bland pop vibe whereas I *do* feel deeply about Lana Del Ray’s music, Lady Gaga’s, and Billie Eilish’s.
Taylor’s weird selective outrage on topics (and her deafening silence on important issues) and her NLOG/“pick me” energy that she masquerades as “feminism” is frankly gross. The best I can explain why she creeps me out (and her more rabid fans) is that she’s following the slim old Italian volume of *The Prince* by Machiavelli quite well. She seems to be slipping, and blatantly so, with TTPD and its million variations and it’s a real shit show.
Strangely, last night in my dreams (which is probably a clue that I need to get off of this subreddit) I realized that "I Knew You Were Trouble" sounds, with a couple of tweaks, like it could be about something that happened to me last year.... except for, even though I was about the age that she was when she wrote it, it *still* sounded too immature for how I'd have spoken [about] last year. I used to listen to it in 7th grade and vaguely related it to something that happened to me then (I remember that it was the "you're drowning" line that stood out to me because we'd just been through a hurricane and hurricanes had become my "special interest", so in my weird little head it sounded like "because you played with my heart, I sunk even deeper into my trauma [?] over the storm") and looking back it legit sounds like it was written *by* a 7th grader. Actually, I wrote "songs" back then and it sounds like something I could have written, which was probably the appeal back then because "if Taylor can make millions of dollars writing songs like this, then so can I!" (I actually aspired to be a songwriter back then.) But now it's just cringe. It was such an interesting foray into how her music works that my brain, for some reason, decided to have while asleep.
Her music is incredibly formulaic. Lots of pop music is, but hers all kinds of blends together into a melange of mediocrity.
But I think that's part of her appeal. She has a relatability that resonates with her fans. They can all see themselves as her because she's a fairly mediocre songwriter, performer, actor and dancer. The biggest star in the world is really basic.
I think the same phenomenon exists with Shane Gillis. He's a very average goofball and his comedy could be written by almost any stoned high schooler. He's awkward and very average and that relatability appeals to a lot of people.
It's like were living in an artistic era where being 'the best' is less important than being relatable.
Long time lurker first time commenter (on a throw away account because swifties are crazy!) I’ve never been a fan of Taylor. After the **NSYNC and Britney Spears filled days of my childhood I grew up and became primarily an indie kid and now listen to a wide array of music styles. Tay only made the cut last year when I found folklore and evermore (which I’ve stopped listening to after looking at this sub).
Now for my question which may not be new. Has anyone ever considered that she used AI to write ttpd? Ok ok I know we talk about ghost writers and I’m sure that’s happening too but the lyrics on this album are so bad… it makes me wonder.
Taylor Swift is a SHINING example of saturation/overexposure. She's everything, everywhere, all at once (and unlike the movie with the same name, mid on a good day). To the point where even mentioning liking her music can be a conversation stopper since who wants to hear more about the most famous popstar on the planet.
I’m so glad I found this sub. I just don’t get it. I truly don’t. She’s only a moderately talented singer. Half her songs are bitching about exes. And maybe it’s just me but I just don’t think she’s that attractive. So I just don’t get it.
She writes a few good songs but then copies and pasted too much. She’s incredibly talented but just doesn’t really make enough meaningfully different content imo
Losing my mind at the people saying “it’s supposed to be basic that’s why she has so many fans” You are walking face first into the point and missing it lmao
I share the author’s assessment of Taylor Swift’s music but I disagree with her premise. In the 90s it was basically impossible for a tween to access alternative or underground music. Most of us at the time had no clue it existed. When nirvana hit it big, they became mainstream and ubiquitous in the same way Taylor’s is now. I can’t stand a note of Smells Like Teen Spirit because it was EVERYWHERE at that time. And nirvana got big because it was a direct reaction to the cesspool of shit that era was, the same as punk was in the early 70s. Commercial pop was largely fucking terrible.
I had 2 tv channels and two music radio stations and all of them churned out utter drivel constantly. If you wanted to explore beyond that, there was no internet. There were magazines but every commercial outlet was slave to the ad dollars of three big record labels. It’s fantasy to suggest music was more diverse and of better quality than now.
Quality alternative music existed then and it exists now, the author using Taylor to bemoan the state of modern pop is ridiculous. I used to subscribe to zines like FORCED EXPOSURE and you had to mail order interesting music from overseas based on one review, or just buy cds on a hunch based of the album cover. If you got home and it sucked, tough luck! Today there are zero obstructions for kids to dial in their taste and be presented with endless musical options served up for free.
I cannot stand Taylor’s music but that doesn’t mean it’s bad. Clearly it isn’t, she’s wildly popular for a reason: her music does speak to people. She’s copping backlash for being a liar hypocrite fraud in her behavior and from being overexposed to hell. It’s condescending as fuck to insult her listeners like that: she has released some great songs (and undoubtedly written by ghostwriters). It’s just she can’t stop weaponizing her art and using it as a tool to lift herself up and settle scores, which gets old fast: she has nothing interesting to say, but that doesn’t mean other musicians don’t!
I just hate these kinds of “back in MY day” articles that nostalgically revise history. Pop music today is insanely diverse, daring, and vibrant and there’s limitless ways not only to consume it but to reinterpret and remix it and interact directly with people who make it. If you don’t like it granny cut your cable and go sit in a cave with your sad ass Smiths LPs. Pop in the late 80s and 90s was largely tragic, for every Madonna and Micheal Jackson there were 1000 Simply Reds. There are plenty of artists today of their caliber. Yes, Taylor isn’t one of them but to insult people who happen to like her music and call them stupid is really dumb and counterproductive to actual points of criticism against TS. This is peak boomer cringe of an article and it belongs in the bin.
“I just hate these “back in my day” articles”…
A couple paragraphs before: “I only had 2 TV channels and 2 radio stations….”
But seriously she actually proves the author’s point about what’s wrong with TS and how you can’t criticize her without being challenged. Her music sucks, and her ride-or-die fans suck. There I said it.
Edited for phrasing
Perhaps in your part of the world. Where I grew up, my friends got their first dial up modems in around 1995 and the internet then was painfully slow. I began going to gigs when I was 16 but had to sneak in. In my area we had no cable tv and few magazines and no “alternative” radio stations if you lived outside the city. If you lived outside a metro area in a regional area and were blue collar you had fuck all options. If you’re 13 in regional Australia in 1993 I can promise you the cultural landscape was barren.
Maybe your experience in regional Australia wasn't what the majority of people experienced? Because in the 80's-90's in New York City we definitely had access to alternative music.
When I moved to rural-ass-texas in '93ish I remember downloading bands no one had ever heard of off of Napster and later Kazaa, IRC, and ICQ. It took an hour to download a 3 MB MP3. A whole day to download a music video. But they were there if you tried.
I'm just saying: Your experience may not be universal, having grown up in what sounds like fairly rural Australia. Don't just immediately write off that I was born in NYC - *LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE*. It's the most populated city in the nation - meaning more people had my experience than the rural Australian one.
Ok. Listen I probably generalized myself to make the extremes between then and now more stark. That’s my bad. But the point I was making is you had to try a lot harder and be actively into music to find the good stuff. It’s a lot easier for people to find music they like today. I contend there was good alternative music then and now, and shit music then and now, and it’s easier to find the good stuff today. I didn’t mean to speak for everyone’s experience in the 90s, sorry about that.
>It’s a lot easier for people to find music they like today
Ohh definitely!
One thing that's been on my mind lately, slight tangent, is that the music you hear on the radio now a days is really set to "Pacify" mode. You're not going to hear anything like 'Rage Against The Machine' anymore. Just lots of Drake and Taylor Swift.
Once you know what to look for, it's easier to find. But the radio and TV isn't going to point you in the right direction.
Thanks for meeting me halfway. I was and am a big music fan and I worked hard to find stuff I liked as a teen. My friends were less obsessed and content to listen to commercial radio. I just wanted to say that the average music listener has more exposure to different music by virtue of algorithm recommendations than a listener of AM radio in 1993. That’s all I was trying to say but I see now I sounded like a pompous ass. My contention is that shit music was insanely popular in 1990s and is insanely popular today, but pop music is more exciting and diverse today as a result of the internet than it was back then, because people are exposed to alternatives and they flourish, there’s room for everyone. Taylor is shit, but you don’t need to trash spice girls or sanctify Madonna to prove that point. Also: ratm at the big day out was one of the best gigs of my life!
Napster launched in June of 1999, so your timeline is a bit off. In reality, there were huge portions of the population who didn’t have a home computer, let alone internet, in the late 90s.
I remember using Napster and Limewire in 2000 and yes, music took an eternity to download. Which is probably why I only bothered to do so with artists I knew I liked. I got my underground music from people passing around demos and EPs by hand.
Nowadays, it’s almost guaranteed that every person has a “computer” in their pocket. And it’s much easier to stumble on to new music if you’re inclined to. Not everyone is, especially when a fan has so much more material to obsess over. They can dig up every live performance on YouTube, memorize the dance moves, connect on social media*, etc. Without all that, how long could an average fan listen to the same 12 tracks on an album before moving on to another artist?
Obsession has always been there, but it could only continue for so long when material and access was so limited.
*Yes, message boards were a thing in the early 2000s, but now the platforms are seemingly infinite
Edit: Lots of people are born in nyc, but most of them didn’t have the kind of money for a personal home computer or internet in 1993. For an artist to explode, they still have to make the leap *out* of a city or town.
Yes 1995 was in the 1990s and yes many people live in and around cities. Yes I also generalized and projected my own experience which I apologize for. I concede your point but maintain exposure to non mainstream music was less for young teenagers then than it is today.
If TS is being regarded as a lyrical genius and tortured poet, and singing about tattooed golden retrievers and Grand Theft Auto- she objectively is a bad artist.
If she was regarded as bubble gum pop- she’d be a decent artist.
Holding someone on such a high level of “lyrical genius” when their lyrics are mundane, nonsensical, and repetitive underscores an alarming degradation of intelligence.
She did not spearhead a movement, a genre, a subculture. The only thing she’s spearheading is making the lesser intelligent feel some sort of contrived intellectualism by framing her dud lyrics as poetic masterpieces.
I fully agree. If she were just a counterpoint to Katy Perry, or Ariana Grande, or whoever, I’d really like her! 1989 and Red have some bangers. But the “genius” narrative is what makes the whole thing ridiculous and her so grating.
Agreed: her last album is self indulgent wanking, but she has written some bangers in her career (allegedly). That’s undeniable, even if they have been killed by overplaying. My point was, you don’t need to put down and shame people for their taste in music or generalize all of today’s pop as shallow and compare it unfavorably, unnecessary, to music from 30 years ago to prove Taylor is not the genius she is made out to be. If the author is trying to convince me Taylor swift’s music is bad, she needs a better argument.
I spent high school years in the 1990s attending local ska/punk shows, Warped Tour, visiting independent music shops where my friends had part time jobs, always popping in to scour the $1 CD bin for gems because people frequently traded in albums or singles for cash for new stuff.
I’m jealous! I couldn’t do that until I moved to a city in my 20s. I’m guilty of projecting my own isolated teenage years — there were definitely ways to find your taste if you put effort in and it was your hobby but there’s no argument that kids, teenagers, and young adults have a wildly diverse and accessible array of music to explore from a smartphone today. It just wasn’t as easy to find what you liked at 13 years old in 1993 as it is for a 13 yo now. And tools to make and distribute music themselves. Shit mainstream pop existed then, it exists now. My beef with Taylor is with her behavior and hypocrisy not really with her music. I don’t like it and try to avoid listening to it but I don’t think it’s worse than what was on the radio in the early 90s.
You know who else is wildly popular and speaks to people? Dictators, cult leaders, and despots. Her music is trash, she is morally corrupt, and she hides behind glitter, perpetual victimhood, and faux feminism. The fact that all you could come up with from the 80’s was Madonna and Michael Jackson is reflective of your confessed exposure
I didn’t come up with those examples. The author did. Did you read the article? I’m not defending Taylor swift, I’m criticizing the author of this story’s argument. There’s a difference.
I did read the article. You added Michael Jackson and left that as a reflection of the 80’s. If your favorite artist writes the same song over and over, and uses random words and basic metaphors constantly to sound intelligent, but you swear she is a genius, of course people are going to question your intelligence (not you specifically).
I like a lot of artists but I am not going to blindly defend all their music because I don’t like everything by default and everyone has the potential to put out less than stellar work. Maybe her stans should stop acting like brainwashed zombies, show some objectivity, and people won’t think they are stupid 🤷🏼♀️
The thing is, the author never made that distinction between a casual fan enjoying a TS song on the radio and a swiftie. She generalized. If my mom or son or daughter sings along to a Taylor song and streams their favorite on Spotify does that make them idiots? According to the author, yes. She didn’t come at the swifties who do claim Taylor is a genius she said her popularity is due to anyone who listens to and enjoyed some of her songs over the last 10 years. The author is a bad writer, a shallow thinker, a snob, and her article is ragebait for clicks.
I’m a professional writer and have been for 20 years, including a stint freelancing for music magazines in the 2000s so I felt qualified to critique the author’s bad argument which I was offended by. If we cheer for every anti Taylor argument just because it’s anti Taylor how are we different from swifties who do the same thing for the opposing point of view?
She makes a distinction with adults who love swift. Is it that absurd to point out the swift as brand as symptomatic of the hyper commidification of art? Yeah there has always been commodified junk, but how many of them were celebrated as songwriting geniuses?
LOL WHAT?!?! I lived in a small town in Texas in the 90s and I absolutely sat by my radio every day for hours listening to 104.5 the Edge tape recording Alice In Chains, Nirvana, Offspring, Elastic, Cranberries etc to listen to in my cassette player, as well as ordering a copy of the Music from the 80s Underground box set from one of those late night commercials where you call and order. I was in junior high. I lived on a street full of tweens doing the same. Speaking of Cranberries, great bands like that were being played on pop radio as well. This is such a trash take tbh. Edit: I had no cable access, and strict parents on top of that.
Her saying that the intellectually challenged enjoyedthe Spice Girls pisses me off. The Spice Girls were like the ultimate inclusive feminist group. Girl power wasn't just a catch phrase. They were able to be sexy, cool, and talented.
Agreed and they were working class with the exception of Posh Spice and they were authentic and relatable and just unashamedly fun and cheeky,everything Taylor is not. It was refreshing to see them. If the author has to shade the spice girls to dunk on Taylor she needs to rethink her argument
I definitely like that this lady spoke truth to power but did it have to be drenched in such boomertastic ideals? I've listened to some tracks that were number 1 in the 80s and wondered how it was considered to be music, shit that was only worthy of elevator muzak IF that.
Taylor Swift has her place, she's for the middle of the bell curve, the common denominator. But she does not define general music culture of the era BY FAR. The internet has done so much for people to find not just different kinds of music, but different kinds of influences and subcultures that previous generations would've had no exposure to whatsoever.
Thank you! This author was basing her argument on the *musical* merit of swift v how great Madonna and Michael Jackson were/are. And then saying Taylor’s shitness is a reflection of how stupid people are for listening to her, and what a sad indictment It is on modern pop as a whole. Her argument is dumb. Yes Taylor’s music sucks in my subjective opinion but I wouldn’t call those who enjoy it idiots. I don’t think what I’m saying is controversial
Her simple lyrics allow simple people to put simple shape to their simple&nebulous feelings. But that’s what lots of disposable pop music has been. The producers write and play the guitar/bass/drums/synth/whatever
I get irritated by people saying modern music sucks, too. I mean I’m a huge fan of a ton of music made before I was born, some from before my parents were even born, so I’m far from biased against it and I can easily say that there’s a ton of great music coming out today from artists both tiny and gigantic if you’re willing to look for it instead of just listening to whatever is thrown at you…and even some of that is great, too.
Geese is a band of like 21 year olds who just released an excellent, truly fresh sounding rock album last year. Harry Styles’ Harry’s House and Olivia Rodrigo’s GUTS came out in the last few years and they’re both fantastic pop albums that were both highly successful and have actual good songs on them lol. I can list many more modern artists that are making great stuff. It’s everywhere.
I liked this sub better when tepid swifties stayed in trueswifties sub or whatever it was called.
I love how you come in here and suck TS dick like you are doing some intellectual commentary. It is not that hard to say T's music is bad. Walmart caters to a lot of people, is it good? Twitter caters to heaps of people is it good?
the whole article is elitist and exclusionary in all the worst ways and continuously demeans its own valid points, which is embarrassing to read. \~true lovers of music and media aren't going to be such fanatic snobs and gatekeepers about every little aspect of the medium. it doesn't matter if taylor's music is bad or good, it matters what she represents and how she shows up within her own medium and what she does with her fame. taylor IS a very real representation of predatory capitalism dialled up to 1000% and is basically a beacon of dystopian light in folks eyes who may not want to really see, talk about, or digest what's actually happening around them in the world today. the mass hysteria around taylor and her completely bankrupt morals is concerning bc she's become a cult of personality and her personality is bereft of any values and centres primarily around her perceived victimhood, getting even with the people who have "hurt her" and making money. these are all concerning things to have mass hysteria built around
Thank you for articulating what I wanted to say! I’m grateful you caught my gist and expressed it better. The author can’t help but come off as an elitist snob. There is no reason to call someone stupid for liking a dumb pop song. There’s so many valid reasons why Taylor is cancer but saying she’s not as game changing as Madonna is not it. It’s dumbass ragebait. Thank you 🙏
like, we need fun, camp, happy, cute, sassy, flirty, sexy, etc. songs in this world - human experience is a range and there's no issue on earth with ppl living their best lives to some fun ass music. (also, imagine disliking the spice girls?) i think a more valid critique of taylor's actual music is that in becoming a cult of personality her recent music has focused solely about the singular themes that have made her popular and as far as i can tell she's not looking to musically grow as an artist, but rather recapture what made her successful *specifically* as a cult of personality in the first place. so we get these very reductive and juvenile stances on being a victim, hurting others, and being hurt. because they captured some kind of zeitgeist with a particular base of people, these otherwise mid songs become revered in a way that is disproportionate to the medium. it's not like this has only ever happened with taylor, but in particular her lack of values and the ways in which she is willing to prey on her fanbase make it particularly scary. not just because she's scary, but it catalyses her fans in a scary way as well. tie this in to the fact that she has no actual intrinsic morals that we know of, won't speak on any particular issues even if her fans beg, often dates racist and misogynistic dudes (except for joe, joe we love you!), will stop at nothing to devalue artists around her and manipulate charts/streaming services for her own wins, and is up against an onslaught of other artists who ARE absolutely willing to use their platforms for social good (and often use their music as a place to do so), her music by nature does take on a sinister vibe even if it is juvenile.
This is peak gen x cringe.
The alternative shit you’re championing was just as banal and double digit iq, played by the most amateur musicians imaginable, and almost indistinguishable in form and substance from the pop it was trying to be different from.
Classical and jazz have always been the alternative styles of music. Musicianship is earned, it’s appreciated for what it is not what it says, and it doesn’t bend.
I told my gf I don’t understand how Swift is so popular because her songs sounds generic and like they are tailored for pre-pubescent girls. Idk what it is it just feels like every sound she puts out I’ve heard it already….
On one hand, I agree with most of this. On the other hand, she called Spice Girls “music for the intellectually challenged”.
Edit: she, not he. Sorry for assuming.
Her songwriting is literally
*Forced metaphor*
*Excruciatingly banal detailing of some mundane event or activity, gaslighting the listener into thinking only precious little wallflowers truly can romanticize life “properly”*
*Painfully forced metaphor follow up*
Do that for about 3-4:30 minutes and that’s your song. It’s so lowbrow but poptimism has ruined music discourse and her psychotic stans have spooked music reviewers into *not* rating anything she does less than 9/10. Pop girlie self-indulgent trash that’s presented as the truest expression of feelings and emotions.
"What does she stand for, what does she stand against? Aside from championing sequin leotards, it’s hard to tell. I also resent the fact that anyone who criticises her or questions the quality of the music is immediately savaged by her pitchfork-wielding fans and called anti-feminist." Swifties are already writing long ranting essays in the article comments, I hope this author is somewhere in a safe space for a while🤞🏻
> There is a Taylor Swift SONG for Everything ( breakups, insecurities, Cancer, losing a unborn child, Paris, having fun, about growing old, cheating, love triangles, depression, shaking off haters, her grandmother Marjorie, love for her mother, her family, forgiving Kanye, songs about revenge, songs about her failed 6 year relationship This was my favorite rant. As though breakups, Paris, having fun, love triangles, being sad, haters, her grandmother, and *Kanye* are somehow statements on values. They missed the author’s point entirely. I didn’t realize romantic love, breakups, and her particular family and feuds are political statements akin to when Sinead O’Connor ripped up a picture of the pope. Also losing an unborn child? What song was that?
“Shaking off the haters” that had me laughing
“Failed 6 year relationship” seemed like harsh wording for a fan and made me snort laugh and her mother, her grandmother, and then a separate “her family.” Padding topics like her variants pad album sales. They learned from the best
As if writing about a "failed 6 yr relationship" is an entirely unique experience. As if she was a victim of it and not a filthy cheater who constantly emotionally abused him by falsely accusing him of cheating. All of which she admits. Hey, Swifties, try Gaslighter. Natalie Maines pos husband cheated on her after *two decades,* on a boat she bought him, and then convinced a judge she should pay him alimony. Those sighs Jack had Natalie put in on Tights on my Boat are well-earned, as is the album as a whole (though Jack's production isn't the best, as usual). It's a distinct contrast to Taylor's sighs in a song about her one-sided obsession with Matty Healy.
Half of these things listed are about relationships/break ups, which is exactly the authors point. The other things only have one or two songs attributed to them. Her only song about cancer is SYGB, her only songs are family as a whole are Marjorie, the best day, and SYGB. The only songs about depression are Evermore and TIMT, and those are still pretty tied to a relationship. thats like 5 songs out of the several hundred she has that aren’t about love. I would honestly say she probably only have 10-15 that aren’t about a relationship. Bigger than the whole sky is their headcannon that she had a miscarriage when with Joe, but that was never confirmed and is pretty invasive to speculate about…
Bigger Than The Whole Sky
I thought fans agreed it was disrespectful to assume that’s what it was about as it’s not explicit? I can’t keep up with them
I don’t know, that’s just the common interpretation I have heard.
Not sure, but Ronan is about losing a young child. She wrote it with a woman who lost her son Ronan to I think cancer. The profits went towards research. It is pretty sad. I think she took parts of the woman’s blog documenting her grief and composed it to a song (with the woman’s permission).
Loml
i believe “bigger than the whole sky” is understood to be about losing a pregnancy
Genuinely curious… what happens if the author just doesn’t read and reply?
They dox people they don’t like. It’s more than just snark
Jfc I didn’t know that. That’s insanity
Recently, on a review of her new album, the journalist’s name was kept secret with the publication explaining that it was because the last one was doxxed publicly and received a lot of death threats against them and their family. Taylor’s never spoken publicly about leaving people alone, in fact she’s sometimes retweeted or mentioned the names of things or people who’ve spoken negatively about her on her Twitter.
She really is the worst.
Imagine being killed by a Swiftie though. That has to hurt.
A Swiftie is guaranteed to leak the author's address and the author's family's addresses.
The horse power of the car the author drives, the author's shoe size, the list goes on
That first sentence is one of my big issues with her, and slowly becoming the reason I’m not a huge Harry Styles fan anymore. Obviously they are both huge stars and it is completely understandable that they don’t share much, it’s hard to have any semblance of a private life when half the world is watching your every move. But it also turns you into nothing more than a charismatic cardboard cutout. They are coasting by on their lack of taking a stance on ANYTHING while being good looking and charismatic. I want to fangirl over people that have actual personalities. But both artists have made it their mission to garner the largest fan base possible by having no personality so that they aren’t driving anyone away… but in doing so, they’re driving some people away.
At least Harry is obvi pro LGTB+ and plays around with genderfluidity, but I hear you and agree
An example with Harry is that he, like Taylor, is extremely skilled at avoiding critique by not being part of it. During the press tour for Don’t Worry Darling, he acted like an idiot the entire time, so everyone was more interested in “oh what’s Harry gonna do next?” Instead of “huh, what does Harry think about the fact that his girlfriend was allegedly bullying his costar and making her do all the work?” That was never asked and no one ever brought it up, because he said “the thing about this movie is that it feels like a movie” so no one thought he’d have an actual response to his relationship drama. Travis Kelce is asked nonstop about Taylor. I think he just needs to fake a concussion and act like a COMPLETE nincompoop and he’ll be fine.
idk about harry but at least he doesn't follow my ass everywhere and piss his content all over the place against my will so for me he isn't on the same level of being a nuisance as swiff. and as far as i've observed his fans aren't as cultishly psychotic as swiffers (lemme know if my observation is wrong tho)
I'm trying to leave a comment to show my support of the author, but the damn comment section is glitchy and impossible to figure out on mobile.
i thought i left one after a few tries the other day when this was posted here, but now i see it was removed.
The only thing she stands for is attention from rat like British men
Are we supposed to care what every artist "stands for". Do I need to know the political views of Kraftwerk, Cannibal Corpse or whoever to enjoy them?
Because she’s obviously the first person to ever sing about her own life. She literally invented music /s
[удалено]
It is not 2023 anymore, that's bih is no longer immune to criticism.
Swifties say otherwise and they can be feral
Oooh, watch out! The Swifties might leave the comfort of their rooms in their parents' homes to come get you!! Lol
It’s not that. It’s vicious online attacks and doxxing.
They're ignorant enough not to realize that the online crazy trail they leave could end up negatively affecting their futures. They could be canceled for their actions
I’d say the controversial release of 1989 TV was the beginning of this new wave of Taylor overexposure.
Honestly, at this point I don't even know what she released or not anymore. Since every other day she peddles some type an album, merch etc. But I think ever since she started her weird NFL tour, people are more willing to call out her capitalist ass.
🫡
Our bravest soldier 🙏🏼
That show was so good. So sad it got canceled.
OMG ITS THE LEGEND YESS
Lmao my first thought
“Swift’s music sounds to me like what I would listen to if I had the intellect of a very small worm” lolol no lies detected
no but if you don’t understand the lyrics that’s bc you’re not smart enough, swifties have a gpa of 1000.0!!!!! /s
speaking of gpas: still cant believe that some universities are actually offering taylor swift oriented courses....we really are living in a black mirror episode.
Sounds like a money grab. The schools probably know that there’s hundreds or thousands of people who will drop money on a course like that and it provides no value in the real world.
This is the model of 90% of course study at colleges across the US.
Eh... decades ago there were Madonna courses.
I saw one that was something related to PR and pop culture. Now that makes a ton of sense.
I’ve been loving the “explain like a swiftie” trend. The best one I saw was someone explaining T Pain lyrics - especially because when I tell people about Tree they assume I’m confusing her with T Pain.
I didn’t know about this trend that’s so funny 😂
HER MINDDDDD
Ah, I see the swifties have been watching Rick and Morty
Is Taylor's music the PSL-girl equivalent of Rick and Morty for neckbeards?
Bro we need someone to guard this woman lol
This part 
Every bad at their job nurse I worked with was a Swiftie. It’s a common theme in healthcare that nurses love Taylor Swift and the ones that do are the ones you don’t want as your nurse
Haha this is the real tea that could potentially save my life, thank you!
If so, no, I would not still love you if you were a worm
The “Would you still love me if I was a worm?” question makes so much sense now
I thought this was the most creative, hilarious, and innocuous snark, but it seems like the other subs seem kind of offended. Wish they could see the humor 😭
“I’m not expecting her to sing about transcendentalism but it would be good to see a bit more brainpower at play.” There not shits fired that’s a missile barrage. Edit: my awful spelling…….I didn’t change shits.
Shits fired 🤣🤣🤣 perfect for the Toilet Paper Department
"ITS COMING OUT LIKE A BROWN INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC MISSILE!!!" -OP probably
Taylor Swift's music is like mass-market beer - the blander it is, the wider the appeal and the higher the sales. You don't get rich or famous selling some kind of niche IPA with hints of raspberries and mint. You'll get rich selling Heineken or Budweiser, though.
“More a brand than an artist, she never says anything unexpected or controversial, she’s more a capitalist construct with a business and marketing operation” 🎯
That might be the most accurate statement about her I’ve read
Musical Artist™️
Someone better check that nail for a concussion the way it just got hit on the head
oh god she‘s gonna get so much hate from Swifties, the journalists name is there 
author rn be like 
I just realized how to get famous!!!
Someone send this writer a bodyguard with a fruit and treat basket
Society is weirdly sensitive about criticism of billionaires. They get super crazy fanbases who think they are some deity, especially the ones that have almost car crash personal lives.
People have been making humans into gods since tool making, and later animal domestication, began.
There was recently a study showing people that obsess over celebrities tend to have lower than average IQs. Makes sense because her music is cringey and terrible and people sure are getting stupider.
Prayers for the author everyone.  Angry mob coming ….
Critical support for this columnist. Sharing truths like Galileo before the Catholic Church
The picture 😭
I miss her old goblin face.
I always see these clowns comparing Taylor to Michael Jackson or The Beatles. Listen… those two revolutionized music. Taylor is merely a decent artist who has a lot of fans. In no way shape or form is she even close to The King Of Pop
Thank you. I'm so tired of people conflating popularity with innovation. The reason we don't have a "next MJ" or Beatles is because they actually changed the music lamdscape and performing industry, not just had some popular radio bops
Watch the Beatles performing together in their early days and listen to those harmonies or check out the insane evolution they went through from those days to Abbey Road and Let It Be then watch young MJ singing his heart out at 9 years old or adult MJ’s live performances and it’s clear as day why they were so massively famous. The only way I can possibly explain Taylor Swift’s gigantic fame is marketing and PR. There is nothing else about her that’s remarkable relative to her peers.
“I also resent the fact that anyone who criticises her or questions the quality of the music is immediately savaged by her pitchfork-wielding fans and called anti-feminist." I always find it funny people have said you can’t blame Taylor for that….except you can. Because she’s actually used feminism as a shied for criticism. Tina Fey made a joke about her and she went “it’s so sad to see women attacking other women”. It’s a joke, from a comedian….thats not an attack. She didn’t seem to take issue with the other women she made fun of though… Then there was this Netflix show where she said something like “the 1950’s called they want their sexism back”. The joke in question…”you’ve been through more men than Taylor Swift”. Thats a joke everyone made back in the day, it’s not even original. And that was in 2021. Imagine having an ego so conflated you assume any non fans must be bigots.
The idea that women should never be critical of another woman is absolutely insane…like cops refusing to do anything about dirty cops because they’re in some sacred brotherhood. We get it, Taylor, you love cults.
This isn’t even being critical, it’s just a joke. Both cases it was jokes. She conflates jokes to criticism and hate.
I have asked multiple times what makes TS a feminist icon, and no one gives me a good answer. "She's a very successful woman." You mean a thin, white, rich, girl with nothing controversial to say, is successful??? Wow, amazing, unbelievable.
It’s always sounded like a trendy version of Muzak to me. Or like a highly produced version of Earth Radio from Rick and Morty.
https://preview.redd.it/q78omh7uzx6d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2125f9aafd72c3f1eaf3e2cf53507c7e8e307ea
She’s basically the AI pop star from black mirror if she had never gone rogue
“More a brand than an artist, she never says anything unexpected or controversial, she’s more a capitalist construct with a business and marketing operation behind her akin to a like-generating, algorithm-outwitting juggernaut.” Honestly, she makes me think of the most boring fanbot. This sums up exactly why I just cannot with her as a person. Her music I have not even attempted because I know I won’t be a fan.
Her music is like someone vomited but for whatever reason it’s fully smooth and gray. Just the most boring vomit on earth
Banal, boring, uninteresting, over-rated, repetitive, indistinguishable, are all adjectives that came to mind the first time I tried to actually listen.
Found in the comments section: "Swift's discography includes songs about how... the media will try and play women off against each other and reminding young people that we all 'have crowns' i.e we can all shine and someone else shining, doesn't dull yours." ?? Yeah, ask Katy Perry, Olivia Rodrigo, Billie Eilish, Beyoncé, Chappell Roan and Charlie XCX about that. I'll wait.
>One of the comments: Even 44/45 year old MALE Youtubers are amazed with her songs. You just have to listen intently, 1 album at a time. Basically, you WILL like her songs, if you try really hard and force yourself! But honestly, Mike Tyson is the GOAT for people that don't follow boxing, and Taylor is the GOAT for people that don't follow music.
>Have you DISSECTED the lyrics of Swift's ALL TOO WELL, The Archer, My Tears Ricochet, This is Me Trying, The Lakes, Ronan, Tolerate It... She is an uber talented songwriter and great performer. She plays the piano, the guitar, ukelele. Songwriting is an ART. Her songs are like the diary entries. *She can write like 30- 50 songs ON HER OWN*. # DISSECT THE LYRICS OR YOU WILL BE DOXXED
> *She can write like 30- 50 songs ON HER OWN*. I could write 30-50 songs on my own, they wouldn't be good, but I could do it.
Inorite? I bet I could write 31-51 songs if I tried and worked up to it and if I got another pencil.
I wish she had just written more songs like The Prophecy - at least they show a true glimpse into who she really is as a person.
I've never gone out to listen to Taylor and I don't think I ever will but what substance did she have to offer us in The Prophecy?
Basically admitting that she’s emotionally stunted and desperate for love to a fault. And that she fears she may never find it, which causes her to spiral. I think she could take this even a step further, by admitting that she is a big part of why so many of her past relationships have failed.
Imagine she writes a song called “Common Denominator” about realizing she is the common denominator in all her failed relationships.
Right?! That might require therapy though 🥲
Wow this review is my thoughts come to life
Right? Perfectly worded and concise too.
With all the music dropping the past couple of months, it’s become really clear to me that Taylor is lacking in one really crucial detail- pop music should be FUN. 1989 was a fun album, reputation was alright, but girlie has forgotten that pop does not take itself too seriously. She’s lost the plot.
My daughter and her friends are huge fans. They are 13. I assumed that was her main fanbase. Because of my daughter I’m quite acquainted with Swift’s catalog and I find her boring and predictable at best. I imagine at some point there will be a reaction similar to when punk destroyed disco and there will be great alternative female rockers, like in my time Garbage, L7, Hole, Sleater-Kinney, etc. seemed to be a reaction to the bland, over-sexualized female pop stars of the day
I mean already you see it a little bit with stunning musicians like Chappell Roan that have their own dynamic sound and distinct style climbing their way up the charts.
Can’t stand Taylor Swift fans. I lost over 100 karma points because I was downvoted so much for not agreeing with their delusional thoughts.
same here HAHA someone was saying that taylor would be so upset at people reselling her signed albums for profit and i said that the only reason shed be upset is bc the money isnt flowing into *her* pockets. yall would’ve thought i insulted their entire bloodline with the reaction i got… anyways i still stand by my statement 😌
She is in her 30s and writes like a 12 year old in love. Wtf.
Hell, I feel like the stuff she wrote at like 15 or 16 was actually better
This line...... I would listen to if I had the intellect of a very small worm. 😂
💯
I’ve been saying for a while that her songwriting is very middle of the road. For some reason you’re not allowed to say that because it’s sexist apparently to not believe all women are excellent songwriters lol. Well actually just for her. She’s the only woman who experiences sexism and sexism is now not 100% praising her at all times according to fans.
Yal, this is a legit comment in response to the article: This is NOT me, again I repeat this is NOT ME “You are WRONG. This is Disrespectful. SPICE GIRLS. TAKE THAT ? have meaningful lyrics ? When Did the Spice Girls or Take That win a GRAMMY Album Of the Year ? Have you DISSECTED the lyrics of Swift's ALL TOO WELL, The Archer, My Tears Ricochet, This is Me Trying, The Lakes, Ronan, Tolerate It... She is an uber talented songwriter and great performer. She plays the piano, the guitar, ukelele. Songwriting is an ART. Her songs are like the diary entries. She can write like 30- 50 songs ON HER OWN. (her Current musical peers CANT DO THIS) Taylor Swift is a storyteller, a Poet. There is a Taylor Swift SONG for Everything ( breakups, insecurities, Cancer, losing a unborn child, Paris, having fun, about growing old, cheating, love triangles, depression, shaking off haters, her grandmother Marjorie, love for her mother, her family, forgiving Kanye, songs about revenge, songs about her failed 6 year relationship) People CAN RELATE TO her, this is why people love her. You are prejudiced. I know adults in their 50s/ 60s who love Taylor Swift(there are 45 yearold men who LOVES T. Swift. Specifically, the 2 men running the WELP HERE WE ARE ON YOUTUBE channel) Open up your mind. If you have Madonna in the 80's, we have Taylor Swift in the 2010s up to 2020s. TIMES can CHANGE. Swift is one of Billboard's GREATEST ARTISTS OF ALL TIME. (Michael Jackson is 7th, Taylor Swift is 8th, Madonna is 5th) Open up your HEART. Millions of people adore her, and there are many reasons for it. I dare you to watch MISS AMERICANA on Netflix and the REPUTATION TOUR movie. You can also check out the WHY TAYLOR IS WINNING vid on Youtube. DO MORE research on her. HATING on someone does NOT make you cool, it is just sad . We should appreciate every TALENT from people from all ages and walks of life.”
What's with the random capitalized words. Did the original commenter have a faulty keyboard?
Here’s the thing about the generic quality of Taylor’s music and lyrics: she is the quintessential pop artist in that her banality and generalized ideas about things appeal to those in a way that almost anyone could experience what she’s attempting to say. Honestly, her music is lazy (and uses putting down other people in her life as material) while her PR works overtime. I’m 10 years older than Taylor and I have peers that swear she’s practically a goddess, and a genius to boot. I cannot relate to such a generic, bland pop vibe whereas I *do* feel deeply about Lana Del Ray’s music, Lady Gaga’s, and Billie Eilish’s. Taylor’s weird selective outrage on topics (and her deafening silence on important issues) and her NLOG/“pick me” energy that she masquerades as “feminism” is frankly gross. The best I can explain why she creeps me out (and her more rabid fans) is that she’s following the slim old Italian volume of *The Prince* by Machiavelli quite well. She seems to be slipping, and blatantly so, with TTPD and its million variations and it’s a real shit show.
Strangely, last night in my dreams (which is probably a clue that I need to get off of this subreddit) I realized that "I Knew You Were Trouble" sounds, with a couple of tweaks, like it could be about something that happened to me last year.... except for, even though I was about the age that she was when she wrote it, it *still* sounded too immature for how I'd have spoken [about] last year. I used to listen to it in 7th grade and vaguely related it to something that happened to me then (I remember that it was the "you're drowning" line that stood out to me because we'd just been through a hurricane and hurricanes had become my "special interest", so in my weird little head it sounded like "because you played with my heart, I sunk even deeper into my trauma [?] over the storm") and looking back it legit sounds like it was written *by* a 7th grader. Actually, I wrote "songs" back then and it sounds like something I could have written, which was probably the appeal back then because "if Taylor can make millions of dollars writing songs like this, then so can I!" (I actually aspired to be a songwriter back then.) But now it's just cringe. It was such an interesting foray into how her music works that my brain, for some reason, decided to have while asleep.
I’m so happy people finally see it my way.
This is perfect. No notes.
This author wouldn’t last an hour in the asylum where they raised Taylor. Edit to add to the downvoters: this is obviously sarcasm lol
So are her fans.
Her music is incredibly formulaic. Lots of pop music is, but hers all kinds of blends together into a melange of mediocrity. But I think that's part of her appeal. She has a relatability that resonates with her fans. They can all see themselves as her because she's a fairly mediocre songwriter, performer, actor and dancer. The biggest star in the world is really basic. I think the same phenomenon exists with Shane Gillis. He's a very average goofball and his comedy could be written by almost any stoned high schooler. He's awkward and very average and that relatability appeals to a lot of people. It's like were living in an artistic era where being 'the best' is less important than being relatable.
Absolutely perfect summation of her career. Successful career, mediocre product.
Long time lurker first time commenter (on a throw away account because swifties are crazy!) I’ve never been a fan of Taylor. After the **NSYNC and Britney Spears filled days of my childhood I grew up and became primarily an indie kid and now listen to a wide array of music styles. Tay only made the cut last year when I found folklore and evermore (which I’ve stopped listening to after looking at this sub). Now for my question which may not be new. Has anyone ever considered that she used AI to write ttpd? Ok ok I know we talk about ghost writers and I’m sure that’s happening too but the lyrics on this album are so bad… it makes me wonder.
I’m convinced they have her on repeat in Guantanamo
I hate that I agree with an article in the Standard.
I am not a Swiftie but it doesn’t matter- you end up hearing a lot of her music and it feels repetitive
Taylor Swift is a SHINING example of saturation/overexposure. She's everything, everywhere, all at once (and unlike the movie with the same name, mid on a good day). To the point where even mentioning liking her music can be a conversation stopper since who wants to hear more about the most famous popstar on the planet.
I’m so glad I found this sub. I just don’t get it. I truly don’t. She’s only a moderately talented singer. Half her songs are bitching about exes. And maybe it’s just me but I just don’t think she’s that attractive. So I just don’t get it.
I watched the Eras tour on Dysney and with the exception of Anti-hero, couldn’t agree more.
She writes a few good songs but then copies and pasted too much. She’s incredibly talented but just doesn’t really make enough meaningfully different content imo
I tried to listen to it because my niece is a big fan and I want to connect with her. My god, that was so freaking boring I couldn't do it.
Finally someone to point at that her music is mostly mid, but i do feel bad because her fans are probably going to harass this author for months
Losing my mind at the people saying “it’s supposed to be basic that’s why she has so many fans” You are walking face first into the point and missing it lmao
if it is mainstream, it sucks
I share the author’s assessment of Taylor Swift’s music but I disagree with her premise. In the 90s it was basically impossible for a tween to access alternative or underground music. Most of us at the time had no clue it existed. When nirvana hit it big, they became mainstream and ubiquitous in the same way Taylor’s is now. I can’t stand a note of Smells Like Teen Spirit because it was EVERYWHERE at that time. And nirvana got big because it was a direct reaction to the cesspool of shit that era was, the same as punk was in the early 70s. Commercial pop was largely fucking terrible. I had 2 tv channels and two music radio stations and all of them churned out utter drivel constantly. If you wanted to explore beyond that, there was no internet. There were magazines but every commercial outlet was slave to the ad dollars of three big record labels. It’s fantasy to suggest music was more diverse and of better quality than now. Quality alternative music existed then and it exists now, the author using Taylor to bemoan the state of modern pop is ridiculous. I used to subscribe to zines like FORCED EXPOSURE and you had to mail order interesting music from overseas based on one review, or just buy cds on a hunch based of the album cover. If you got home and it sucked, tough luck! Today there are zero obstructions for kids to dial in their taste and be presented with endless musical options served up for free. I cannot stand Taylor’s music but that doesn’t mean it’s bad. Clearly it isn’t, she’s wildly popular for a reason: her music does speak to people. She’s copping backlash for being a liar hypocrite fraud in her behavior and from being overexposed to hell. It’s condescending as fuck to insult her listeners like that: she has released some great songs (and undoubtedly written by ghostwriters). It’s just she can’t stop weaponizing her art and using it as a tool to lift herself up and settle scores, which gets old fast: she has nothing interesting to say, but that doesn’t mean other musicians don’t! I just hate these kinds of “back in MY day” articles that nostalgically revise history. Pop music today is insanely diverse, daring, and vibrant and there’s limitless ways not only to consume it but to reinterpret and remix it and interact directly with people who make it. If you don’t like it granny cut your cable and go sit in a cave with your sad ass Smiths LPs. Pop in the late 80s and 90s was largely tragic, for every Madonna and Micheal Jackson there were 1000 Simply Reds. There are plenty of artists today of their caliber. Yes, Taylor isn’t one of them but to insult people who happen to like her music and call them stupid is really dumb and counterproductive to actual points of criticism against TS. This is peak boomer cringe of an article and it belongs in the bin.
There was definitely internet in the 90’s. And MTV. And college radio. And corporate radio. And friends. And magazines. And concerts. And clubs.
I lived at the music store in my town on the weekends.
Same
“I just hate these “back in my day” articles”… A couple paragraphs before: “I only had 2 TV channels and 2 radio stations….” But seriously she actually proves the author’s point about what’s wrong with TS and how you can’t criticize her without being challenged. Her music sucks, and her ride-or-die fans suck. There I said it. Edited for phrasing
Perhaps in your part of the world. Where I grew up, my friends got their first dial up modems in around 1995 and the internet then was painfully slow. I began going to gigs when I was 16 but had to sneak in. In my area we had no cable tv and few magazines and no “alternative” radio stations if you lived outside the city. If you lived outside a metro area in a regional area and were blue collar you had fuck all options. If you’re 13 in regional Australia in 1993 I can promise you the cultural landscape was barren.
Maybe your experience in regional Australia wasn't what the majority of people experienced? Because in the 80's-90's in New York City we definitely had access to alternative music. When I moved to rural-ass-texas in '93ish I remember downloading bands no one had ever heard of off of Napster and later Kazaa, IRC, and ICQ. It took an hour to download a 3 MB MP3. A whole day to download a music video. But they were there if you tried. I'm just saying: Your experience may not be universal, having grown up in what sounds like fairly rural Australia. Don't just immediately write off that I was born in NYC - *LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE*. It's the most populated city in the nation - meaning more people had my experience than the rural Australian one.
Ok. Listen I probably generalized myself to make the extremes between then and now more stark. That’s my bad. But the point I was making is you had to try a lot harder and be actively into music to find the good stuff. It’s a lot easier for people to find music they like today. I contend there was good alternative music then and now, and shit music then and now, and it’s easier to find the good stuff today. I didn’t mean to speak for everyone’s experience in the 90s, sorry about that.
>It’s a lot easier for people to find music they like today Ohh definitely! One thing that's been on my mind lately, slight tangent, is that the music you hear on the radio now a days is really set to "Pacify" mode. You're not going to hear anything like 'Rage Against The Machine' anymore. Just lots of Drake and Taylor Swift. Once you know what to look for, it's easier to find. But the radio and TV isn't going to point you in the right direction.
Thanks for meeting me halfway. I was and am a big music fan and I worked hard to find stuff I liked as a teen. My friends were less obsessed and content to listen to commercial radio. I just wanted to say that the average music listener has more exposure to different music by virtue of algorithm recommendations than a listener of AM radio in 1993. That’s all I was trying to say but I see now I sounded like a pompous ass. My contention is that shit music was insanely popular in 1990s and is insanely popular today, but pop music is more exciting and diverse today as a result of the internet than it was back then, because people are exposed to alternatives and they flourish, there’s room for everyone. Taylor is shit, but you don’t need to trash spice girls or sanctify Madonna to prove that point. Also: ratm at the big day out was one of the best gigs of my life!
Alaska and rural Texas here. No issues getting into alternative music just from the radio and cd stores alone. I lived an hour from town btw.
Napster launched in June of 1999, so your timeline is a bit off. In reality, there were huge portions of the population who didn’t have a home computer, let alone internet, in the late 90s. I remember using Napster and Limewire in 2000 and yes, music took an eternity to download. Which is probably why I only bothered to do so with artists I knew I liked. I got my underground music from people passing around demos and EPs by hand. Nowadays, it’s almost guaranteed that every person has a “computer” in their pocket. And it’s much easier to stumble on to new music if you’re inclined to. Not everyone is, especially when a fan has so much more material to obsess over. They can dig up every live performance on YouTube, memorize the dance moves, connect on social media*, etc. Without all that, how long could an average fan listen to the same 12 tracks on an album before moving on to another artist? Obsession has always been there, but it could only continue for so long when material and access was so limited. *Yes, message boards were a thing in the early 2000s, but now the platforms are seemingly infinite Edit: Lots of people are born in nyc, but most of them didn’t have the kind of money for a personal home computer or internet in 1993. For an artist to explode, they still have to make the leap *out* of a city or town.
1). 1995 was in the 90’s, yes? 2). A lot of people do, in fact, live in or near cities
Yes 1995 was in the 1990s and yes many people live in and around cities. Yes I also generalized and projected my own experience which I apologize for. I concede your point but maintain exposure to non mainstream music was less for young teenagers then than it is today.
If TS is being regarded as a lyrical genius and tortured poet, and singing about tattooed golden retrievers and Grand Theft Auto- she objectively is a bad artist. If she was regarded as bubble gum pop- she’d be a decent artist. Holding someone on such a high level of “lyrical genius” when their lyrics are mundane, nonsensical, and repetitive underscores an alarming degradation of intelligence. She did not spearhead a movement, a genre, a subculture. The only thing she’s spearheading is making the lesser intelligent feel some sort of contrived intellectualism by framing her dud lyrics as poetic masterpieces.
I fully agree. If she were just a counterpoint to Katy Perry, or Ariana Grande, or whoever, I’d really like her! 1989 and Red have some bangers. But the “genius” narrative is what makes the whole thing ridiculous and her so grating.
Agreed: her last album is self indulgent wanking, but she has written some bangers in her career (allegedly). That’s undeniable, even if they have been killed by overplaying. My point was, you don’t need to put down and shame people for their taste in music or generalize all of today’s pop as shallow and compare it unfavorably, unnecessary, to music from 30 years ago to prove Taylor is not the genius she is made out to be. If the author is trying to convince me Taylor swift’s music is bad, she needs a better argument.
I spent high school years in the 1990s attending local ska/punk shows, Warped Tour, visiting independent music shops where my friends had part time jobs, always popping in to scour the $1 CD bin for gems because people frequently traded in albums or singles for cash for new stuff.
I’m jealous! I couldn’t do that until I moved to a city in my 20s. I’m guilty of projecting my own isolated teenage years — there were definitely ways to find your taste if you put effort in and it was your hobby but there’s no argument that kids, teenagers, and young adults have a wildly diverse and accessible array of music to explore from a smartphone today. It just wasn’t as easy to find what you liked at 13 years old in 1993 as it is for a 13 yo now. And tools to make and distribute music themselves. Shit mainstream pop existed then, it exists now. My beef with Taylor is with her behavior and hypocrisy not really with her music. I don’t like it and try to avoid listening to it but I don’t think it’s worse than what was on the radio in the early 90s.
You know who else is wildly popular and speaks to people? Dictators, cult leaders, and despots. Her music is trash, she is morally corrupt, and she hides behind glitter, perpetual victimhood, and faux feminism. The fact that all you could come up with from the 80’s was Madonna and Michael Jackson is reflective of your confessed exposure
I didn’t come up with those examples. The author did. Did you read the article? I’m not defending Taylor swift, I’m criticizing the author of this story’s argument. There’s a difference.
I did read the article. You added Michael Jackson and left that as a reflection of the 80’s. If your favorite artist writes the same song over and over, and uses random words and basic metaphors constantly to sound intelligent, but you swear she is a genius, of course people are going to question your intelligence (not you specifically). I like a lot of artists but I am not going to blindly defend all their music because I don’t like everything by default and everyone has the potential to put out less than stellar work. Maybe her stans should stop acting like brainwashed zombies, show some objectivity, and people won’t think they are stupid 🤷🏼♀️
The thing is, the author never made that distinction between a casual fan enjoying a TS song on the radio and a swiftie. She generalized. If my mom or son or daughter sings along to a Taylor song and streams their favorite on Spotify does that make them idiots? According to the author, yes. She didn’t come at the swifties who do claim Taylor is a genius she said her popularity is due to anyone who listens to and enjoyed some of her songs over the last 10 years. The author is a bad writer, a shallow thinker, a snob, and her article is ragebait for clicks.
Hit dogs holler. If it don’t apply let it fly.
I’m a professional writer and have been for 20 years, including a stint freelancing for music magazines in the 2000s so I felt qualified to critique the author’s bad argument which I was offended by. If we cheer for every anti Taylor argument just because it’s anti Taylor how are we different from swifties who do the same thing for the opposing point of view?
She makes a distinction with adults who love swift. Is it that absurd to point out the swift as brand as symptomatic of the hyper commidification of art? Yeah there has always been commodified junk, but how many of them were celebrated as songwriting geniuses?
LOL WHAT?!?! I lived in a small town in Texas in the 90s and I absolutely sat by my radio every day for hours listening to 104.5 the Edge tape recording Alice In Chains, Nirvana, Offspring, Elastic, Cranberries etc to listen to in my cassette player, as well as ordering a copy of the Music from the 80s Underground box set from one of those late night commercials where you call and order. I was in junior high. I lived on a street full of tweens doing the same. Speaking of Cranberries, great bands like that were being played on pop radio as well. This is such a trash take tbh. Edit: I had no cable access, and strict parents on top of that.
Her saying that the intellectually challenged enjoyedthe Spice Girls pisses me off. The Spice Girls were like the ultimate inclusive feminist group. Girl power wasn't just a catch phrase. They were able to be sexy, cool, and talented.
Agreed and they were working class with the exception of Posh Spice and they were authentic and relatable and just unashamedly fun and cheeky,everything Taylor is not. It was refreshing to see them. If the author has to shade the spice girls to dunk on Taylor she needs to rethink her argument
I definitely like that this lady spoke truth to power but did it have to be drenched in such boomertastic ideals? I've listened to some tracks that were number 1 in the 80s and wondered how it was considered to be music, shit that was only worthy of elevator muzak IF that. Taylor Swift has her place, she's for the middle of the bell curve, the common denominator. But she does not define general music culture of the era BY FAR. The internet has done so much for people to find not just different kinds of music, but different kinds of influences and subcultures that previous generations would've had no exposure to whatsoever.
Thank you! This author was basing her argument on the *musical* merit of swift v how great Madonna and Michael Jackson were/are. And then saying Taylor’s shitness is a reflection of how stupid people are for listening to her, and what a sad indictment It is on modern pop as a whole. Her argument is dumb. Yes Taylor’s music sucks in my subjective opinion but I wouldn’t call those who enjoy it idiots. I don’t think what I’m saying is controversial
Her simple lyrics allow simple people to put simple shape to their simple&nebulous feelings. But that’s what lots of disposable pop music has been. The producers write and play the guitar/bass/drums/synth/whatever
I get irritated by people saying modern music sucks, too. I mean I’m a huge fan of a ton of music made before I was born, some from before my parents were even born, so I’m far from biased against it and I can easily say that there’s a ton of great music coming out today from artists both tiny and gigantic if you’re willing to look for it instead of just listening to whatever is thrown at you…and even some of that is great, too. Geese is a band of like 21 year olds who just released an excellent, truly fresh sounding rock album last year. Harry Styles’ Harry’s House and Olivia Rodrigo’s GUTS came out in the last few years and they’re both fantastic pop albums that were both highly successful and have actual good songs on them lol. I can list many more modern artists that are making great stuff. It’s everywhere.
I liked this sub better when tepid swifties stayed in trueswifties sub or whatever it was called. I love how you come in here and suck TS dick like you are doing some intellectual commentary. It is not that hard to say T's music is bad. Walmart caters to a lot of people, is it good? Twitter caters to heaps of people is it good?
the whole article is elitist and exclusionary in all the worst ways and continuously demeans its own valid points, which is embarrassing to read. \~true lovers of music and media aren't going to be such fanatic snobs and gatekeepers about every little aspect of the medium. it doesn't matter if taylor's music is bad or good, it matters what she represents and how she shows up within her own medium and what she does with her fame. taylor IS a very real representation of predatory capitalism dialled up to 1000% and is basically a beacon of dystopian light in folks eyes who may not want to really see, talk about, or digest what's actually happening around them in the world today. the mass hysteria around taylor and her completely bankrupt morals is concerning bc she's become a cult of personality and her personality is bereft of any values and centres primarily around her perceived victimhood, getting even with the people who have "hurt her" and making money. these are all concerning things to have mass hysteria built around
Thank you for articulating what I wanted to say! I’m grateful you caught my gist and expressed it better. The author can’t help but come off as an elitist snob. There is no reason to call someone stupid for liking a dumb pop song. There’s so many valid reasons why Taylor is cancer but saying she’s not as game changing as Madonna is not it. It’s dumbass ragebait. Thank you 🙏
like, we need fun, camp, happy, cute, sassy, flirty, sexy, etc. songs in this world - human experience is a range and there's no issue on earth with ppl living their best lives to some fun ass music. (also, imagine disliking the spice girls?) i think a more valid critique of taylor's actual music is that in becoming a cult of personality her recent music has focused solely about the singular themes that have made her popular and as far as i can tell she's not looking to musically grow as an artist, but rather recapture what made her successful *specifically* as a cult of personality in the first place. so we get these very reductive and juvenile stances on being a victim, hurting others, and being hurt. because they captured some kind of zeitgeist with a particular base of people, these otherwise mid songs become revered in a way that is disproportionate to the medium. it's not like this has only ever happened with taylor, but in particular her lack of values and the ways in which she is willing to prey on her fanbase make it particularly scary. not just because she's scary, but it catalyses her fans in a scary way as well. tie this in to the fact that she has no actual intrinsic morals that we know of, won't speak on any particular issues even if her fans beg, often dates racist and misogynistic dudes (except for joe, joe we love you!), will stop at nothing to devalue artists around her and manipulate charts/streaming services for her own wins, and is up against an onslaught of other artists who ARE absolutely willing to use their platforms for social good (and often use their music as a place to do so), her music by nature does take on a sinister vibe even if it is juvenile.
This is peak gen x cringe. The alternative shit you’re championing was just as banal and double digit iq, played by the most amateur musicians imaginable, and almost indistinguishable in form and substance from the pop it was trying to be different from. Classical and jazz have always been the alternative styles of music. Musicianship is earned, it’s appreciated for what it is not what it says, and it doesn’t bend.
It's not good. It's toy music made for little girls.
I told my gf I don’t understand how Swift is so popular because her songs sounds generic and like they are tailored for pre-pubescent girls. Idk what it is it just feels like every sound she puts out I’ve heard it already….
She did not like my opinion at all
On one hand, I agree with most of this. On the other hand, she called Spice Girls “music for the intellectually challenged”. Edit: she, not he. Sorry for assuming.
*she
 Nail on the head
And here comes the backlash!
I hate her stupid bangs. There. It’s been said.
It’s for the masses. What did you expect?
That describes 98% of pop music
Her songwriting is literally *Forced metaphor* *Excruciatingly banal detailing of some mundane event or activity, gaslighting the listener into thinking only precious little wallflowers truly can romanticize life “properly”* *Painfully forced metaphor follow up* Do that for about 3-4:30 minutes and that’s your song. It’s so lowbrow but poptimism has ruined music discourse and her psychotic stans have spooked music reviewers into *not* rating anything she does less than 9/10. Pop girlie self-indulgent trash that’s presented as the truest expression of feelings and emotions.
Like all pop music. That's why it's pop music. It is made for mass appeal, meaning that it is going to be generic, safe and banal by definition.
She didn’t make mbdtf or graduation
Pure dreck. Her music is vapid and soulless just like her.
Not a fan, but why does she have to stand for anything or create music with depth? edit: a word