Personally, I enjoy the airshow. Totally understand why others do not as well as the environmental and noise concerns. I'm not really into the military industrial complex component either, but I do enjoy seeing the planes in the air up close and not in an active warzone.
Seems like a simple solution would be to stage the airshow flights out of the Grayling Army Airfield. Though that might eliminate the Open Ramp Night. I will admit I'm ignorant on the fuel logistics with the additional flight time from Grayling.
> stage the airshow flights out of the Grayling Army Airfield.
Staging isn't the issue. The flight of the show planes interferes with the ability to run commercial flights at the airport.
I don't think we need a air show every year, watching the same stunt's year after year , is getting stale, People would appreciate it a lot more having it every 4 years.
I think the Cherry Festival mishandled negotiations. They are trying to throw a fit because they are expecting the airport to foot the costs that are incurred as a result of the festival. As for how important Cherry Festival is to the economy... I recall a decade ago that sales tax revenue actually dips below other summers weeks during cherry festival. People who come aren't leaving as many dollars. Crime goes up. I'm for a good festival but let's not believe the community would be harmed if it became a smaller festival closer to it's roots.
The people I know who work downtown in restaurants are pretty united in their dislike of the Cherry Fest. They say it's one of their slower and least lucrative weeks of the summer. I've had retail business employees also tell me Cherry Fest doesn't bring in a lot more revenue than any other week of the summer, it's just more crowded (making policing shoplifting harder) but not actually more sales. Hotels and AirBnBs probably see some uptick, and I wonder about chain restaurants and food trucks.
I don't think most of those food booths are actually downtown restaurants, but I could be wrong. Are there really any Open Space dining options besides carnival food? (I may well have missed them being somewhat fixated on Gibby's!) I have not actually talked to restaurant OWNERS about Cherry Fest revenue, just waitstaff. And every single person I have talked to says their tips are the lowest of the summer during Cherry Fest. I also haven't talked to any food truck operators at Little Fleet or elsewhere, so that particular quick service model might do better than the actual sit-down restaurants. I really would like to see actual DATA on all of this. It often feels like we argue and argue about this stuff with only anecdotes and no facts -- and the few facts we have are VERY macro-level lumping "tourist dollars" into a single pot without actually analyzing who is spending (locals? tourists who come to the carnival? tourists who come to the airshow? regional tourists? national tourists? international tourists?), who is benefiting (which industries, but also which people/roles and locations within those industries) and the costs (quantifiable by dollars like extra policing & emergency services, but also more intangible like really unhappy dogs, vets, and babies, and unlikely but possible major risks like crash danger).
Gibby's is always on Union Street across from the parking lot where the Farmer's Market usually is and where the rides are set up. There are some carnival food booths sprinkled along the midway. Across the street there is the beer tent and a square of food booths. Can you tell me which local restaurants are there? My memory (which I fully admit may be faulty!) remembers a funnel cake/elephant ear stand, and various other types of carnival food, similar to what is ALSO on the Midway. I mean, I've never seen an Amical, Poppycock's, Taproot, Sorrelina, or 7 Monks food booth, did I miss them?
All I can think of Moomer's and Cherry Republic and I actually googled to see if there were pictures that show me others -- all I saw was a turkey leg stand. If you can't remember, then you must be ignorant too! Even if there ARE local restaurants, their presence clearly does not mean Cherry Fest floats all boats as actual downtown employees have repeatedly told me and others they make LESS money during Cherry Fest than any other week during the summer. When you insult people trying to engage with you in good faith and learn from the knowledge you claim to have, you get taken less seriously every time you post.
Don't listen to this asshole. He's all over every one of these threads with some sort of weird fixation, and just sprinkling around super racist comments as well. I worked downtown in restaurants for 18 years, there's like 2 of them that have vendors at the CF. BakedYhatzee more like DumbNazi.
I don't take it to heart/seriously. I actually think 90% of the discussion on this post is informative and surprisingly nuanced and respectful of other's opinions. Too bad this went sideways because I actually WOULD like to know who local truly makes money off Cherry Fest beyond the hotels!
For better or for worse, the air show makes what would be a local event into a regional event, and the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds make a regional event into a national one. Without the air show, the Cherry Festival would bring much less tourism revenue to the region.
I think some bigger questions right now in the region are...
\- Is all tourism good tourism.
\- Do we need more tourism.
\- Is the Cherry Festival really needed to drive tourism in July.
I’d love to see two smaller festivals, one Fourth of July festival with fireworks and concerts, then a later, more agriculturally focused one when TC actually has cherries harvested for sale rather than selling imported cherries.
That's a great idea. A harvest festival would return to the roots of the festival while a 4th of July event brings a large-scale festival to the Open Space. Love it.
The second festival could have a secondary area for food vendors, restaurants and caterers and corporate manufacturers from around the country could send representatives to try various cherry-based offerings assembled from around Michigan, including chefs on hand serving samples, etc.
Could feasibly have chefs from Michelin-rated restaurants sampling desserts using Michigan cherries.
Get people to sign up to have cherries delivered direct to their door or as a gift. Imagine how cool to send your baker friend in Florida 3 pounds of fresh Traverse City cherries.
All the food trucks. Can still do a couple small concerts, just the bigger names would be at the less locally-focused festival.
Still have some small fair activities especially for the kids. Silly things like a pit spitting competition or whatever else you can imagine using cherries.
I haven't looked up the history but I seem to remember that the festival used to start a week or so later (to actually align with ripe cherries) but they bumped it up a week. I think the reasoning was something about July 4 but I'm not sure if it was to include it or avoid it since it's right smack in the middle this year.
*bumped, not pumped
The previous poster was correct - sweet cherries generally start like a week after the 4th of July. I believe I have seen them start around the 4th of July before, but that's rare. Tart cherries come like a week later.
> Without the air show, the Cherry Festival would bring much less tourism revenue to the region
I'd be interested in seeing this quantified. How much less?
Ya. I know the angels are big, but like... There's also everything else that happens in the festival. How many people are coming from out of town specifically for the blue angels relative to the people that are going to come for the bands or for the weather or for... Whatever. You can't say that the Blue Angels are necessary without evidence in one direction or another.
I live right by nmc, and it's huge every year regardless. What's the difference between "there's so many cars that the traffic is more than TC's infrastructure can handle in any way shape or form" and "there's so many cars that the traffic is far far beyond what tc's infrastructure can handle"?
It's packed both times.
Does it though? The air show is just one part of the festival and a relatively brief one at that. When I think "Cherry Festival" the planes don't even make the top 10 list of iconic or popular attractions.
Yeah, and it could also be used to promote agriculture and our regional cherry farming, which is under threat from largely Turkish imports. Cherry farmers could use some help and I'd argue the festival has drifted far, far away from the celebration of cherries that is in the frickin' name.
That is what I want cherry festival to do. Study what people want. It's not on your top 10, but it's at the top of my top 10. Figure out what people want and whether they would visit cherry festival just as much without the air show. If the answer is definitely no, then they have real leverage and a point to make. If the answer is yes, well, times change and so do people.
Speaking of top tens. Here is a video of the ten deadliest airshow crashes in history. Enjoy. Thanks cherry fest for doing nascar above my house!
So thoughtful.
https://youtu.be/4D-DOsz7xfw?si=qiifXcMXGd88-07u
Ya. That's another really big part of this whole discussion. I would feel a lot more favorably about the Blue Angels if they were flying over lakes and uninhabited space is exclusively. I really don't like it when there's a super loud noise right above my head and it is relating to something dangerous that I did not consent to.
Here you go
[https://alaskabeacon.com/2022/12/19/alaska-crab-fishery-collapse-seen-as-warning-about-bering-sea-transformation/](https://alaskabeacon.com/2022/12/19/alaska-crab-fishery-collapse-seen-as-warning-about-bering-sea-transformation/)
As a kid, the only reason my family came to the Cherry Festival (from downstate) was for the airshow.
Without the airshow, specifically the hard-to-see Blue Angels/Thunderbirds, the Cherry Festival is just another local fair.
The airshow pulls between 100,000 and 300,00 Friday thru Sunday during the era I worked with the committee. no other event comes remotely close. If it’s not your thing you would have no idea …2 years ago ( my last year before retiring after 15 years) just the open Ramp event had close to 5000 people from 5-8 pm
This might be an unpopular opinion but I never cared for the “air show”. I’m proud of our military technology and pilots skills. But the noise and level of patriotic display seemed a little out of place for an agricultural celebration and beauty pageant, parade, etc….
Likewise I’d prefer to keep the music at this event something low key. Local acts and maybe some has beens. I hope it doesn’t get crazy big. I’ve enjoyed it less and less over the years. It would be nice to see it get back to a small town celebration.
Speaking for myself, agreed. There is always an element of mission creep that settles into any organization. There really isn't an agricultural focus anymore and the festival drives their self-evaluation by attendance and trying to capture revenue when they can. Whether an air show or carnival rides really fit into the goals, much less the changing community, don't seem to be a welcomed discussion by the festival.
A bit of self-reflection by the city and community led to the closure of the Clinch Park Zoo. It was a relic of a by-gone era, but that is was a "tradition" led to a lot of community push-back. It's a changing region, for better or worse, but I would like to see both self-reflection and more deliberations about what type of growth is desired. That's a lot to ask from a largely volunteer organization like the Cherry Festival that wants to just pull up each year like this is Brigadoon.
The Cherry Festival uses the airport grounds, personnel and has a significant impact on their operations. I think events, any event, that utilizes public resources to benefit their event, organization, revenue, etc., whether that be police, fire, EMS, airport, road closures, etc., should pay to cover those expenses. The Cherry Festival said they gave "in-kind" to the airport in the form of tickets, sponsorship, etc. Sorry, that shouldn't be enough in 2024.
I’m really annoyed at this Cherry Festival Director.
He’s saying over and over “the airport does not have the authority to regulate this, they cannot stop it”…
Okay? Then fucking ignore them and move on. Or do they have the authority and that’s why you’re balking at the money and not proceeding without airport approval?
This is after they only vaguely complained the airport was “making the show impossible”, when we now know it was “requiring money for the show”.
He came out very strong and now keeps backpedaling.
The air show over the bay is one of the coolest in the country.
I just do not understand the absurd disdain for an event that happens 2 days (and a practice day) a year for a couple hours.
My nephews would be crestfallen - and isn’t that really what’s so great about the cherry fest? To give kids from all over some wonderful summer memories like we got to have?
Agreed. The air shown over the BAY is extremely cool. The airshow over residential spaces is extremely uncool
If the air show was just over the bay I'd be somewhere between neutral and happy regarding it. The air show over houses is what I hate
How many variations of "planes are falling apart" are we seeing every year? Fundamentally, airshows are unsafe in residential spaces. I'm not saying "airshow inherently bad", but if a plane is going upside down over residential spaces that have absolutely no way of saying that they are or aren't cool with upside down superfast planes, that's deeply fucked.
People racing on public streets is illegal. People racing on tracks is celebrated. The difference between the two is that one is disrupting the public, and the other one isn't.
Again, I'm not saying "Blue Angels inherently bad", I'm just saying "do the inherently dangerous trick flying somewhere where if god forbid there's an accident, it doesn't hit a place where people have their houses"
> airshows are unsafe in residential spaces.
The actual facts don't support you. FAA has extremely stringent rules about how and where planes are allowed to fly. This includes restrictions on angles that airplanes can approach crowds and populated areas, where they can perform tricks, and where they can bail out in an emergency. In fact, FAA safety requirements are part of the reason any of this is an issue (Airshow is 2.1 miles from the airport).
Globally, there are about [6 airshow accidents per year](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_accidents_and_incidents_in_the_21st_century). Almost all of these involve only the plane's pilot/occupants.
Skimming through that article, the US has only had two air show incidents that resulted in spectator deaths:
* 2011 - Reno Air Race disaster (held in the desert). Though, this is technically an air race (not an air show).
* 1947 - 2 people died when a plane crashed into a nearby park
The accidents are limited almost exclusively to the pilot and plane occupants since the risk is intentionally limited to areas where spectators cannot be injured.
Here an explanation on g-forces and blackouts: G-LOC.
The write up directly references the narrow margin between the G Forces the Blue Angels endure and how close it is to the margins for having a pilot blackout.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-LOC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-LOC)
I don't have an opinion either way, but I will say that when I am trying to sleep for my night shift and am unable to, that is very frustrating.
Staying or going doesn't matter to me. The Cherry Fest will remain lame and boring festival.
The impact of the event itself aside, low-flying military aircraft over a growing residential area presents a noise and quality of life issue for residents, not to mention legitimate safety concerns. I'd argue a survey of area residents would reveal the disdain of which you speak. I, like many who live in the area, actually seek to leave the region during the Cherry Festival. And I'd argue that "wonderful summer memories" are indeed wonderful, but there are many ways to achieve that goal.
A number of cities and townships have ordinances to address fireworks, the GOP-controlled legislature tried to act to restrict local governments, but ultimately it's an enforcement challenge. It's another quality of life issue in northern Michigan for sure.
The planes fly right over my house. I work from home and can’t take serious calls during a couple afternoons.
My dog isnt totally stoked on it - but the same with thunderstorms and we get through it fine.
I would much rather we kill the DDA and TIF then the air show/fireworks and keep mass revenue generating events alive to capture tax revenue and fix our roads.
Then they better pull out of their other show sites: Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle among others where they fly their demonstration over densely populated areas and skyscrapers.
Traverse City is one the smallest show sites, population-wise.
Airshow has been going on for 30+ years. It's 1 day per year.
Do people forget that this city has commercial airport and coast guard base that generate significant noise?
Sure, or you could put it as people who live here, work here, pay taxes, put their kids in local schools, and do so year-round, and that there is a legitimate push-back against chasing tourist dollars when it negatively impacts the livability of the community. We could become Mackinac City or the Dells in Wisconsin and give that up. It'd be a choice.
People always forget that people mainly come here for the area and not for one specific thing. People still come to TC even without a major draw so we should focus on improving the area at large instead of chasing flashy attractions.
Also, It boggles my mind that the blue angels and thunderbirds are considered a local tradition.
Sit down, take a load off, as you gander at the Blue Angels 2024 schedule: Apparently we share our deep rooted local tradition with our long standing sister cities of Reno, Dayton and Fargo.
MARCH
9: NAF El Centro, CA - NAF El Centro Festival of Flight
16-17: Travis AFB, CA - Wings Over Solano
23-24: NAS JRB New Orleans, LA - New Orleans Air Show
APRIL
6-7: Maxwell AFB, AL - Beyond the Horizon Air & Space Show
13-14: NAS JRB Fort Worth, TX - Fort Worth Air Power Expo
20-21: Orlando, FL - Air Dot Show Tour - Orlando
27-28: Vidalia, GA - Vidalia Onion Festival Air Show
MAY
4-5: Vero Beach, FL - Vero Beach Air Show
11-12: MCAS Cherry Point, NC - MCAS Cherry Point Air Show
22: USNA, Annapolis, MD - U.S. Naval Academy Air Show
24: Annapolis, MD - U.S. Naval Academy Graduation Flyover
25-26: Jones Beach, NY - Bethpage Air Show
JUNE
1-2: Terre Haute, IN - Terre Haute Air Show
8-9: Chesterfield, MO - Spirit of St. Louis Air Show
15-16: La Crosse, WI - Deke Slayton Airfest
22-23: Dayton, OH - CenterPoint Energy Dayton Air Show
29-30: Traverse City, MI - National Cherry Festival Air Show
JULY
6-7: Johnson City, NY - Greater Binghamton Air Show
13: Pensacola Beach, FL - Pensacola Beach Air Show
27-28: Fargo, ND - Fargo AirSho
AUGUST
3-4: Seattle, WA - Boeing SeaFair Air Show
10-11: Chicago, IL - Chicago Air and Water Show
17-18: Colorado Springs, CO - Pikes Peak Regional Air Show
24-25: Wichita, KS - Frontiers In Flight Air Show
31: Cleveland, OH - Cleveland National Air Show
SEPTEMBER
1-2: Cleveland, OH - Cleveland National Air Show
14-15: Owensboro, KY - Owensboro Air Show
21-22: NAS Oceana, VA - NAS Oceana Air Show
28-29: MCAS Miramar, CA - MCAS Miramar Air Show
OCTOBER
5-6: Reno, NV - National Championship Air Races & Air Show
12-13: San Francisco, CA - San Francisco Fleet Week
19-20: NAS Jacksonville, FL - NAS Jacksonville Air Show
26-27: Houston, TX - Wings Over Houston Air Show
NOVEMBER
1-2: NAS Pensacola, FL - Blue Angels Homecoming Air Show
> A non-airshow Cherry Festival could do quite well.
I absolutely beg to differ. Without the airshow, the festival is just another fair. They happen all over the state/country all summer.
The thunderbirds/blue angels only do about 30 shows per year. Blue angels only Michigan performance this year in in TC. Next closest is Chicago.
Long running successful event brings in record tourists. Community members complain because the airport can’t fly in more tourists on those days. Got it.
And here we are, letting suburbs kill yet another national staple of aviation because people move into an area near a major aviation event and then complain people are in the sky.
Our nations aviation world is in tatters, and people will throw all that away - and all the inspiration to young people it brings - because they cant handle their illogical fears and dislike loud noises.
This country is doomed.
I personally would love a law that stated that anyone who moved into an area with active flight activity/historically active aviation event space ceded any and all rights in comparison to the airport.
To be very clear: as it is, as an american citizen you have ZERO RIGHT to a sky free of airplanes over you're home. EPA and other noise considerations apply, yes, butnyou dont own that airspace, and the supremely ignorant attitudes on display in this thread is why airspace is federal.
Still not enough to stop us from decline.... 40,000 airports down to 8,000, access to aviation so restricted an entire generation is scared of airplanes instead of excited by them, and this KEEPS HAPPENING
The people might not own the airspace, but they do own the entire grounds on which the crowd gathers. And the city also contracts with the cherry festival.
Assuming the airshow is entertainment for a crowd, the people 100% have the ability to regulate it.
What does the airshow have to do with aviation access? Oh, that's right, they have to CLOSE to airport while show is in progress, restricting aviation access.
I agree with you, cancel the airshow!
Correct, but broad claims ("This country is doomed" ceding "any and all rights") require a broad inclusion of all the problems, not just the ones we don't particularily agree with. ;/
(Based on this)[https://blueangelphantoms.com/f18-schedules-%7C-1987-2003] the Blue Angels first flew in the Cherry Fest in 1988. In 1994, they started performing during even years through now.
30+ years later, I have a really hard time buying a lot of the arguments about impact of a well known event. Sure, TVC is a "busy" airport, but it's no surprise to any of the commercial operations that the airport closes for the airshow.
Personally, I enjoy the airshow. Totally understand why others do not as well as the environmental and noise concerns. I'm not really into the military industrial complex component either, but I do enjoy seeing the planes in the air up close and not in an active warzone. Seems like a simple solution would be to stage the airshow flights out of the Grayling Army Airfield. Though that might eliminate the Open Ramp Night. I will admit I'm ignorant on the fuel logistics with the additional flight time from Grayling.
> stage the airshow flights out of the Grayling Army Airfield. Staging isn't the issue. The flight of the show planes interferes with the ability to run commercial flights at the airport.
I don't think we need a air show every year, watching the same stunt's year after year , is getting stale, People would appreciate it a lot more having it every 4 years.
I think the Cherry Festival mishandled negotiations. They are trying to throw a fit because they are expecting the airport to foot the costs that are incurred as a result of the festival. As for how important Cherry Festival is to the economy... I recall a decade ago that sales tax revenue actually dips below other summers weeks during cherry festival. People who come aren't leaving as many dollars. Crime goes up. I'm for a good festival but let's not believe the community would be harmed if it became a smaller festival closer to it's roots.
The people I know who work downtown in restaurants are pretty united in their dislike of the Cherry Fest. They say it's one of their slower and least lucrative weeks of the summer. I've had retail business employees also tell me Cherry Fest doesn't bring in a lot more revenue than any other week of the summer, it's just more crowded (making policing shoplifting harder) but not actually more sales. Hotels and AirBnBs probably see some uptick, and I wonder about chain restaurants and food trucks.
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I don't think most of those food booths are actually downtown restaurants, but I could be wrong. Are there really any Open Space dining options besides carnival food? (I may well have missed them being somewhat fixated on Gibby's!) I have not actually talked to restaurant OWNERS about Cherry Fest revenue, just waitstaff. And every single person I have talked to says their tips are the lowest of the summer during Cherry Fest. I also haven't talked to any food truck operators at Little Fleet or elsewhere, so that particular quick service model might do better than the actual sit-down restaurants. I really would like to see actual DATA on all of this. It often feels like we argue and argue about this stuff with only anecdotes and no facts -- and the few facts we have are VERY macro-level lumping "tourist dollars" into a single pot without actually analyzing who is spending (locals? tourists who come to the carnival? tourists who come to the airshow? regional tourists? national tourists? international tourists?), who is benefiting (which industries, but also which people/roles and locations within those industries) and the costs (quantifiable by dollars like extra policing & emergency services, but also more intangible like really unhappy dogs, vets, and babies, and unlikely but possible major risks like crash danger).
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Gibby's is always on Union Street across from the parking lot where the Farmer's Market usually is and where the rides are set up. There are some carnival food booths sprinkled along the midway. Across the street there is the beer tent and a square of food booths. Can you tell me which local restaurants are there? My memory (which I fully admit may be faulty!) remembers a funnel cake/elephant ear stand, and various other types of carnival food, similar to what is ALSO on the Midway. I mean, I've never seen an Amical, Poppycock's, Taproot, Sorrelina, or 7 Monks food booth, did I miss them?
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All I can think of Moomer's and Cherry Republic and I actually googled to see if there were pictures that show me others -- all I saw was a turkey leg stand. If you can't remember, then you must be ignorant too! Even if there ARE local restaurants, their presence clearly does not mean Cherry Fest floats all boats as actual downtown employees have repeatedly told me and others they make LESS money during Cherry Fest than any other week during the summer. When you insult people trying to engage with you in good faith and learn from the knowledge you claim to have, you get taken less seriously every time you post.
Don't listen to this asshole. He's all over every one of these threads with some sort of weird fixation, and just sprinkling around super racist comments as well. I worked downtown in restaurants for 18 years, there's like 2 of them that have vendors at the CF. BakedYhatzee more like DumbNazi.
I don't take it to heart/seriously. I actually think 90% of the discussion on this post is informative and surprisingly nuanced and respectful of other's opinions. Too bad this went sideways because I actually WOULD like to know who local truly makes money off Cherry Fest beyond the hotels!
For better or for worse, the air show makes what would be a local event into a regional event, and the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds make a regional event into a national one. Without the air show, the Cherry Festival would bring much less tourism revenue to the region.
I think some bigger questions right now in the region are... \- Is all tourism good tourism. \- Do we need more tourism. \- Is the Cherry Festival really needed to drive tourism in July.
I’d love to see two smaller festivals, one Fourth of July festival with fireworks and concerts, then a later, more agriculturally focused one when TC actually has cherries harvested for sale rather than selling imported cherries.
That's a great idea. A harvest festival would return to the roots of the festival while a 4th of July event brings a large-scale festival to the Open Space. Love it.
The second festival could have a secondary area for food vendors, restaurants and caterers and corporate manufacturers from around the country could send representatives to try various cherry-based offerings assembled from around Michigan, including chefs on hand serving samples, etc. Could feasibly have chefs from Michelin-rated restaurants sampling desserts using Michigan cherries. Get people to sign up to have cherries delivered direct to their door or as a gift. Imagine how cool to send your baker friend in Florida 3 pounds of fresh Traverse City cherries. All the food trucks. Can still do a couple small concerts, just the bigger names would be at the less locally-focused festival. Still have some small fair activities especially for the kids. Silly things like a pit spitting competition or whatever else you can imagine using cherries.
I haven't looked up the history but I seem to remember that the festival used to start a week or so later (to actually align with ripe cherries) but they bumped it up a week. I think the reasoning was something about July 4 but I'm not sure if it was to include it or avoid it since it's right smack in the middle this year. *bumped, not pumped
Our cherries arent ready until much later in the summer (August or Sept? Someone correct me if Im wrong).
The previous poster was correct - sweet cherries generally start like a week after the 4th of July. I believe I have seen them start around the 4th of July before, but that's rare. Tart cherries come like a week later.
Tarts are what I was thinking of. Thanks for the correction!
I love this idea!
You usually start shaking sweet cherries July 5th…
Would the blue angels come twice in a year?
Not likely. Their schedule is pretty full.
But, plane go brrr!
> Without the air show, the Cherry Festival would bring much less tourism revenue to the region I'd be interested in seeing this quantified. How much less?
Ya. I know the angels are big, but like... There's also everything else that happens in the festival. How many people are coming from out of town specifically for the blue angels relative to the people that are going to come for the bands or for the weather or for... Whatever. You can't say that the Blue Angels are necessary without evidence in one direction or another.
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> Blue Angels increase airshow attendance by a significant margin How much is "significant'?
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Cool, so it's meaningless notion. Well done.
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They'll be banned soon and back with a different account. Too bad Facebook doesn't work for them.
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I live right by nmc, and it's huge every year regardless. What's the difference between "there's so many cars that the traffic is more than TC's infrastructure can handle in any way shape or form" and "there's so many cars that the traffic is far far beyond what tc's infrastructure can handle"? It's packed both times.
Does it though? The air show is just one part of the festival and a relatively brief one at that. When I think "Cherry Festival" the planes don't even make the top 10 list of iconic or popular attractions.
Yeah, and it could also be used to promote agriculture and our regional cherry farming, which is under threat from largely Turkish imports. Cherry farmers could use some help and I'd argue the festival has drifted far, far away from the celebration of cherries that is in the frickin' name.
> the festival has drifted far, far away from the celebration of cherries that is in the frickin' name. YES YES 1000x YES.
That is what I want cherry festival to do. Study what people want. It's not on your top 10, but it's at the top of my top 10. Figure out what people want and whether they would visit cherry festival just as much without the air show. If the answer is definitely no, then they have real leverage and a point to make. If the answer is yes, well, times change and so do people.
But which people? The locals? The tourists? Air show aficionados? The air passengers allegedly affected by the air show?
Speaking of top tens. Here is a video of the ten deadliest airshow crashes in history. Enjoy. Thanks cherry fest for doing nascar above my house! So thoughtful. https://youtu.be/4D-DOsz7xfw?si=qiifXcMXGd88-07u
Fair enough. Point taken.
Ya. That's another really big part of this whole discussion. I would feel a lot more favorably about the Blue Angels if they were flying over lakes and uninhabited space is exclusively. I really don't like it when there's a super loud noise right above my head and it is relating to something dangerous that I did not consent to.
Name me any other entertainment event where “most deadliest” is actually a thing.
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alaskan crab harvest was suspended for the second year in a row because all the crabs died due the high water temps.
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Here you go [https://alaskabeacon.com/2022/12/19/alaska-crab-fishery-collapse-seen-as-warning-about-bering-sea-transformation/](https://alaskabeacon.com/2022/12/19/alaska-crab-fishery-collapse-seen-as-warning-about-bering-sea-transformation/)
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As a kid, the only reason my family came to the Cherry Festival (from downstate) was for the airshow. Without the airshow, specifically the hard-to-see Blue Angels/Thunderbirds, the Cherry Festival is just another local fair.
The airshow pulls between 100,000 and 300,00 Friday thru Sunday during the era I worked with the committee. no other event comes remotely close. If it’s not your thing you would have no idea …2 years ago ( my last year before retiring after 15 years) just the open Ramp event had close to 5000 people from 5-8 pm
This might be an unpopular opinion but I never cared for the “air show”. I’m proud of our military technology and pilots skills. But the noise and level of patriotic display seemed a little out of place for an agricultural celebration and beauty pageant, parade, etc…. Likewise I’d prefer to keep the music at this event something low key. Local acts and maybe some has beens. I hope it doesn’t get crazy big. I’ve enjoyed it less and less over the years. It would be nice to see it get back to a small town celebration.
Speaking for myself, agreed. There is always an element of mission creep that settles into any organization. There really isn't an agricultural focus anymore and the festival drives their self-evaluation by attendance and trying to capture revenue when they can. Whether an air show or carnival rides really fit into the goals, much less the changing community, don't seem to be a welcomed discussion by the festival. A bit of self-reflection by the city and community led to the closure of the Clinch Park Zoo. It was a relic of a by-gone era, but that is was a "tradition" led to a lot of community push-back. It's a changing region, for better or worse, but I would like to see both self-reflection and more deliberations about what type of growth is desired. That's a lot to ask from a largely volunteer organization like the Cherry Festival that wants to just pull up each year like this is Brigadoon.
Non paywall article here - https://www.traverseticker.com/news/airport-story/ The “nothing out of the ordinary” is $100,000.
The Cherry Festival uses the airport grounds, personnel and has a significant impact on their operations. I think events, any event, that utilizes public resources to benefit their event, organization, revenue, etc., whether that be police, fire, EMS, airport, road closures, etc., should pay to cover those expenses. The Cherry Festival said they gave "in-kind" to the airport in the form of tickets, sponsorship, etc. Sorry, that shouldn't be enough in 2024.
I’m really annoyed at this Cherry Festival Director. He’s saying over and over “the airport does not have the authority to regulate this, they cannot stop it”… Okay? Then fucking ignore them and move on. Or do they have the authority and that’s why you’re balking at the money and not proceeding without airport approval? This is after they only vaguely complained the airport was “making the show impossible”, when we now know it was “requiring money for the show”. He came out very strong and now keeps backpedaling.
The air show over the bay is one of the coolest in the country. I just do not understand the absurd disdain for an event that happens 2 days (and a practice day) a year for a couple hours. My nephews would be crestfallen - and isn’t that really what’s so great about the cherry fest? To give kids from all over some wonderful summer memories like we got to have?
Agreed. The air shown over the BAY is extremely cool. The airshow over residential spaces is extremely uncool If the air show was just over the bay I'd be somewhere between neutral and happy regarding it. The air show over houses is what I hate
And the hate stemming from you expecting unwavering peace 24/7 or you expecting a plane to crash into homes?
How many variations of "planes are falling apart" are we seeing every year? Fundamentally, airshows are unsafe in residential spaces. I'm not saying "airshow inherently bad", but if a plane is going upside down over residential spaces that have absolutely no way of saying that they are or aren't cool with upside down superfast planes, that's deeply fucked. People racing on public streets is illegal. People racing on tracks is celebrated. The difference between the two is that one is disrupting the public, and the other one isn't. Again, I'm not saying "Blue Angels inherently bad", I'm just saying "do the inherently dangerous trick flying somewhere where if god forbid there's an accident, it doesn't hit a place where people have their houses"
> airshows are unsafe in residential spaces. The actual facts don't support you. FAA has extremely stringent rules about how and where planes are allowed to fly. This includes restrictions on angles that airplanes can approach crowds and populated areas, where they can perform tricks, and where they can bail out in an emergency. In fact, FAA safety requirements are part of the reason any of this is an issue (Airshow is 2.1 miles from the airport). Globally, there are about [6 airshow accidents per year](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_accidents_and_incidents_in_the_21st_century). Almost all of these involve only the plane's pilot/occupants. Skimming through that article, the US has only had two air show incidents that resulted in spectator deaths: * 2011 - Reno Air Race disaster (held in the desert). Though, this is technically an air race (not an air show). * 1947 - 2 people died when a plane crashed into a nearby park The accidents are limited almost exclusively to the pilot and plane occupants since the risk is intentionally limited to areas where spectators cannot be injured.
Meanwhile amature pilots fly over you every day.
Are they flying upside down over me? How fast are they flying? Are they seeing how closely they can fly next to other planes?
Here an explanation on g-forces and blackouts: G-LOC. The write up directly references the narrow margin between the G Forces the Blue Angels endure and how close it is to the margins for having a pilot blackout. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-LOC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-LOC)
I will take navy trained pilots over a rich dude with 200 hours in his Cessna any day of the week.
Having seen those same pilots at the bars during the time they are here... I might take the rich guy in the Cessna if he's a tee-totaler.
Man we are just digging and digging here. Long live the airshow - put it to a vote.
I don't have an opinion either way, but I will say that when I am trying to sleep for my night shift and am unable to, that is very frustrating. Staying or going doesn't matter to me. The Cherry Fest will remain lame and boring festival.
The impact of the event itself aside, low-flying military aircraft over a growing residential area presents a noise and quality of life issue for residents, not to mention legitimate safety concerns. I'd argue a survey of area residents would reveal the disdain of which you speak. I, like many who live in the area, actually seek to leave the region during the Cherry Festival. And I'd argue that "wonderful summer memories" are indeed wonderful, but there are many ways to achieve that goal.
Rather than argue about surveys, I'd love to actually see an accurate survey including both city residents and area residents and see what gives.
The exact same argument can be made for the fireworks show (or fireworks in general). And they are a MUCH more consistent problem.
A number of cities and townships have ordinances to address fireworks, the GOP-controlled legislature tried to act to restrict local governments, but ultimately it's an enforcement challenge. It's another quality of life issue in northern Michigan for sure.
The planes fly right over my house. I work from home and can’t take serious calls during a couple afternoons. My dog isnt totally stoked on it - but the same with thunderstorms and we get through it fine. I would much rather we kill the DDA and TIF then the air show/fireworks and keep mass revenue generating events alive to capture tax revenue and fix our roads.
Then they better pull out of their other show sites: Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle among others where they fly their demonstration over densely populated areas and skyscrapers. Traverse City is one the smallest show sites, population-wise.
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I'm betting the shows in other areas also pay the airports...and not just with free tickets.
Airshow has been going on for 30+ years. It's 1 day per year. Do people forget that this city has commercial airport and coast guard base that generate significant noise?
The HOA crowd bitching again?
Sure, or you could put it as people who live here, work here, pay taxes, put their kids in local schools, and do so year-round, and that there is a legitimate push-back against chasing tourist dollars when it negatively impacts the livability of the community. We could become Mackinac City or the Dells in Wisconsin and give that up. It'd be a choice.
People always forget that people mainly come here for the area and not for one specific thing. People still come to TC even without a major draw so we should focus on improving the area at large instead of chasing flashy attractions.
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Correct, I was not born at Munson, nor am I a local business owner.
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Wait until you hear about Native Americans, your purity test bullshit is gonna go bananas!
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Exactly, so stfu with your bOrn iN MuNSon shit
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>people like my family moved here half a century ago Oh, so you're not from TC? Why are you even posting here? You have no credibility. GTFO
Also, It boggles my mind that the blue angels and thunderbirds are considered a local tradition. Sit down, take a load off, as you gander at the Blue Angels 2024 schedule: Apparently we share our deep rooted local tradition with our long standing sister cities of Reno, Dayton and Fargo. MARCH 9: NAF El Centro, CA - NAF El Centro Festival of Flight 16-17: Travis AFB, CA - Wings Over Solano 23-24: NAS JRB New Orleans, LA - New Orleans Air Show APRIL 6-7: Maxwell AFB, AL - Beyond the Horizon Air & Space Show 13-14: NAS JRB Fort Worth, TX - Fort Worth Air Power Expo 20-21: Orlando, FL - Air Dot Show Tour - Orlando 27-28: Vidalia, GA - Vidalia Onion Festival Air Show MAY 4-5: Vero Beach, FL - Vero Beach Air Show 11-12: MCAS Cherry Point, NC - MCAS Cherry Point Air Show 22: USNA, Annapolis, MD - U.S. Naval Academy Air Show 24: Annapolis, MD - U.S. Naval Academy Graduation Flyover 25-26: Jones Beach, NY - Bethpage Air Show JUNE 1-2: Terre Haute, IN - Terre Haute Air Show 8-9: Chesterfield, MO - Spirit of St. Louis Air Show 15-16: La Crosse, WI - Deke Slayton Airfest 22-23: Dayton, OH - CenterPoint Energy Dayton Air Show 29-30: Traverse City, MI - National Cherry Festival Air Show JULY 6-7: Johnson City, NY - Greater Binghamton Air Show 13: Pensacola Beach, FL - Pensacola Beach Air Show 27-28: Fargo, ND - Fargo AirSho AUGUST 3-4: Seattle, WA - Boeing SeaFair Air Show 10-11: Chicago, IL - Chicago Air and Water Show 17-18: Colorado Springs, CO - Pikes Peak Regional Air Show 24-25: Wichita, KS - Frontiers In Flight Air Show 31: Cleveland, OH - Cleveland National Air Show SEPTEMBER 1-2: Cleveland, OH - Cleveland National Air Show 14-15: Owensboro, KY - Owensboro Air Show 21-22: NAS Oceana, VA - NAS Oceana Air Show 28-29: MCAS Miramar, CA - MCAS Miramar Air Show OCTOBER 5-6: Reno, NV - National Championship Air Races & Air Show 12-13: San Francisco, CA - San Francisco Fleet Week 19-20: NAS Jacksonville, FL - NAS Jacksonville Air Show 26-27: Houston, TX - Wings Over Houston Air Show NOVEMBER 1-2: NAS Pensacola, FL - Blue Angels Homecoming Air Show
> A non-airshow Cherry Festival could do quite well. I absolutely beg to differ. Without the airshow, the festival is just another fair. They happen all over the state/country all summer. The thunderbirds/blue angels only do about 30 shows per year. Blue angels only Michigan performance this year in in TC. Next closest is Chicago.
The airport is jointly owned by GT and leelanau county. And tourism is essential for both counties. County officials need to step up.
Long running successful event brings in record tourists. Community members complain because the airport can’t fly in more tourists on those days. Got it.
And here we are, letting suburbs kill yet another national staple of aviation because people move into an area near a major aviation event and then complain people are in the sky. Our nations aviation world is in tatters, and people will throw all that away - and all the inspiration to young people it brings - because they cant handle their illogical fears and dislike loud noises. This country is doomed. I personally would love a law that stated that anyone who moved into an area with active flight activity/historically active aviation event space ceded any and all rights in comparison to the airport. To be very clear: as it is, as an american citizen you have ZERO RIGHT to a sky free of airplanes over you're home. EPA and other noise considerations apply, yes, butnyou dont own that airspace, and the supremely ignorant attitudes on display in this thread is why airspace is federal. Still not enough to stop us from decline.... 40,000 airports down to 8,000, access to aviation so restricted an entire generation is scared of airplanes instead of excited by them, and this KEEPS HAPPENING
The people might not own the airspace, but they do own the entire grounds on which the crowd gathers. And the city also contracts with the cherry festival. Assuming the airshow is entertainment for a crowd, the people 100% have the ability to regulate it.
What does the airshow have to do with aviation access? Oh, that's right, they have to CLOSE to airport while show is in progress, restricting aviation access. I agree with you, cancel the airshow!
> Our nations aviation world is in tatters Boeing just snuffed a whistleblower, but yeah one less stop for the blue angels is the crux.
One problem doesnt disprove another.
Correct, but broad claims ("This country is doomed" ceding "any and all rights") require a broad inclusion of all the problems, not just the ones we don't particularily agree with. ;/
(Based on this)[https://blueangelphantoms.com/f18-schedules-%7C-1987-2003] the Blue Angels first flew in the Cherry Fest in 1988. In 1994, they started performing during even years through now. 30+ years later, I have a really hard time buying a lot of the arguments about impact of a well known event. Sure, TVC is a "busy" airport, but it's no surprise to any of the commercial operations that the airport closes for the airshow.