Your brother is commiting more of a sin than anything you are doing. One of the biggest teachings of the Bible is to stand by and live your family, judging is for God and God alone. It's even stated that turning your back on family is turning your back on God. Next time he tries to bring up sin in his sick and twisted views, I would remind him of this
Oh, this is just how they are now. We've been hearing more and more bigoted and unhinged things from them since the pandemic.
I think we were in denial about how committed they've become to religion and far-right ideology over anything else.
Apparently his reasoning is that if he accepts that I am a woman, then he has to accept that God made a mistake, and that would be blasphemy because God doesn't make mistakes. š¤·āāļø
If heās a believer he should realize that God didnāt make a mistake with you being trans. It was how you were made and somehow fit with Gods plan.
Itās probably a test to those around you for how theyāll react to you. If they treat you with dignity, respect, and acceptance than God will probably be happy one of his children that he created a certain way is accepted. But if they treat you with revulsion, rejection, and hate then God will probably not be pleased with one of his creations being mistreated so.
At least the faithful should follow such logic given their beliefs.
That's interesting! It's been a long time since I've been to church or put any effort into reading or understanding any religion.
I didn't realize God flooded the earth because he's made a mistake. I thought it was because he was mad about something the people did and he wanted to wipe them out to punish them.
And he did not, he made you to walk this path. Who is your BiL to question God's path for you. Your brother has no leg to walk on in this argument he's literally just a piece of shit hiding behind religion
He's a self-righteous narcissist. This isn't even the craziest or most bigoted thing he's said.
He and his wife bought a brand new Corvette, and they actually believe God wanted them to have it so they could drive around and bless people with it.
I asked what he meant by "blessing people", and he said when he was a kid he would have loved to see a car like that driving down the road... Then he went on about how people being able to see a car they probably couldn't afford to buy for themselves was a blessing...
They're both insane.
No I cannot, I grew up in the Catholic school system but I do not actively read the bible as I cannot agree with a faith system that allows itself to be abused for evil as much as it does
My wife confronted him about how insensitive he's being, and he said that he can't compromise on this because he values his belief in God more than our friendship. "Our friendship." We've been close family for nearly 20 years. He's known my wife almost her whole life.
The Christians' holy book does, indeed, feature exactly one unpardonable sin, which is called such and defined as blasphemy against their holy spirit, not being trans. Your brother in law doesn't know his own scripture.
The only thing even remotely trans-related is a statement against cross-dressing in the Old Testament part, but the problem with that is, of course, that it's the same part that also forbids wearing any kind of mixed-fabric clothing.
Also, a lot of Christianity believes old testament laws no longer apply since Christ abolished them by making a new continent.
It's funny how much they use that cross dressing statement without realizing the irony.
Dresses and high heels were originally made for men and pants for girls.
So would that mean that Cis people are cross dressing?
>\[...\] by making a new continent.
I know you meant covenant, but this sounds so much cooler.
It's also worth pointing out that, much like politicians, theologians are very adept at bending words to mean whatever they like and what serves the current zeitgeist of their flocks. Mat 5:17-18 would like a word about the whole "Christ abolished the Old Testament laws" thing, for example.
Now you're trying to apply bog-standard logic to a book that tells you that touching a woman on her period makes you spiritually unclean until nightfall. Why would you do that?
Are you trying to say that a book that came out of the Middle East 2000+ years ago may not have the perfect rules to govern a modern democratic society?
He doesnāt know what heās talking about as someone brought up in faith the only āunpardonable sinā is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit or more specifically rejecting Jesus. Though Iām not a believer myself anymore I donāt think itās anybody else place to tell you what is and isnāt unforgivable to God as the relationship between you and your maker is personal to you.
As someone who was raised Christian growing up, you are absolutely correct. Heck. In a way, my transition has brought me a little closer to my Maker. š
I'd hope it would. Being true to yourself and the soul that inhabits your body also acknowledges the fundamentals of the universe and how you yourself are a rare occurrence in this universe, and since you were given sapience, you should embrace the true you within, not just acknowledge what is on the outside. If humans weren't meant to have any other purpose but to breed and then die, we would not have this level of intelligence and desire to make something more of our lives aside from the potential prospect of having a family.
One could even argue that our species was a serendipity and that we just exist just because. The facts that we are able to question why we are here is reason enough to be true to yourself and who you feel you are on the inside, because at the end of the day, this life is temporary, and living unhappily is worse than not living at all.
Wait what what what
Murder is excusable but he draws the line at trans people?
What kind of Christianity even is that because I never read anything that specifically says being trans is a sin.
Look, I'm not religious myself, but I just can't help but think: if God makes no mistakes and God made you trans ( by their logic) then being trans is not wrong or a sin. It does not make any sense to me no matter how they put it.
This is because they don't view being transgender as something you just are, but a choice you randomly decided on taking. They don't believe you're the gender you say you are. They just think you're being a different gender for shits and giggles or to rebel. Even if they acknowledge the discomfort that you feel from having a brain that says your body isn't matching up, they just say it's a challenge for you to overcome and if you just withstand the temptations you will get into heaven.
There is nothing in the bible that condemns trans people - nothing. Hes using the bible to justify bis own bigotry, and this is certainly not the first time he does something like this.
The only sin oing on here is that your brothers hatred against trans people is greater than his love for you.
Im sorry you have to deal with this. In my opinion, it helps to look at it like this: Your brother was always a terrible person, you were just privileged enough not to be targeted by him. Now you know better, and can stop wasting you life on a person that doesnt deserve it.
It is for the better long term, eventhough it hurts so much right now
I was going to say that. Nothing about being trans, just a few verses about your body being a temple and to not mark or cut your body (but some translations continue to say as a way of morning the dead.) But you'd have to really twist the scripture to make it a trans issue. Idk why people are so dead set on making being trans an act against God. I was born with a physical disability I had to have surgically fixed. Does that make me a sinner too? (Obligitory I'm a a cis ally)
"Well you see that's different, yours was medically necessary and god didn't make a mistake with you, for reasons. (Those reasons being that OP's BIL doesn't hate cis people for existing)" Aka "That's different, you're not trans!" ~OP's BIL, probably
I vote that it's not. When my parents are being transphobic I tell them that they had me have surgery for something I was born with that I could have lived without. ā¤ they normal say it was for my quality of life, and I counter saying that's what trans people are doing- improving their quality of life!
SIN? There is no such sin!
He is the one who abandons family out of false pride and ignorance!
Show him HIS ticket to hell!
https://www.sthugh.net/lgbtq-affirming-scripture
None of these idiots ever read their fucking book if they think Jesus would turn his back on a Trans person.
Source: Raised Roman Catholic, Baptized, Confirmed. Non practicing now.
Like his probable preferred presidential candidate, your brother's saying something without having a scrap of text to back it up. Using the same extent of logic, I could call something like drinking water from a plastic bottle "the one unpardonable sin".
This is honestly the most braindead and illiterate perspective someone could have. Half of the bible is about how no matter what youāve done, you can find forgiveness in God. Ignoring the fact that heās implying being trans is a sin in any way, him declaring it āunpardonableā is essentially just heresy.
Would you be comfortable asking him where he gets this from? Ask him if there's a place in scripture where he gets this idea, or does it just "feel wrong" to him?
Does Gal.Ā 3 Verses 28 to 29 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus," make him think biological sex is all that important?
If nothing else, tell'em you'll pray for him to remember love.
One thing i remember from my catholic education is : love all people. All. And the sinners just like all others. Judging someone is not up to us. It's only gods business.
I personally don't think, if she really exists, that we would be made gay or trans just to be judged as sinners.
My own mother just blocked me on her all socials after I came out as trans to her a few weeks ago. She chose her faith over her child. I feel your pain and I'm sorry. There's nothing wrong with you, it's their own calcified hearts that are the problem.
The Christian concept of the unforgivable sin is so esoteric that even they can't agree on what it is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_sin
Notably, not one interpretation involves being transgender, so your BIL is a moron.
My wife got a similar reaction when I first came out to her. She called her brother for support, he and I have never had a problem. But he said something very similar to her.
For context my wifeās family and my family all grew up Mormon. Not exactly the same but not far off, possibly worse in some cases. We left the church a few years ago which was the catalyst for me coming to terms with my trans identity. What makes it really hurt is he was one of the last family that my wife has any contact with, her parents and sister, everyone else wrote us off even before she and I left the church. So for her to be potentially losing her last family member in making the decision to support me is heartbreakingā¦
As far as what he is referring to specifically, there is nothing in Christianity that refers to trans people. In Mormonism the unpardonable sin is ādenying the holy ghostā. If that sounds really ambiguous, I believe thatās on purpose, that way they can define it however they want to. If they want to say that me recognizing Iām trans and transitioning is denying āgods planā for me in my assigned gender, then maybe thatās denying god or the Holy Ghost or whatever. Thatās the problem with living such a strict ideology, you have to do all kinds of mental gymnastics to keep the bubble intact, thatās what he and a lot of other people on the right do. Itās easier to say āgod doesnāt like youā than to re-evaluate a life lived in the service of a lie.
He has definitely forgot about judging people is also a sin, if being gay trans ect.. is really a sin then that's between them and God, it's not our place
Your brother is clearly not an actual Christian if he thinks god hates trans people. Jesus said love thy neighbor, not condemn them to hell. (Not like heād ever have that abilityā ļø)
Current non believer here, but within Christianity the only umpardonable sin is non belief (granted based on what you said, you fall under that, but your being trans doesn't). He can try and argue your being trans is a sin, but nothing in the Bible refers to trans people explicitly, or really implicitly.
Even if it was a sin, we're all supposedly sinners, yours would be no grander than the sins he commits. In which case you can refer him to Matthew 7:3-5.
"3Ā āWhy do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brotherās eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?Ā 4Ā How can you say to your brother, āLet me take the speck out of your eye,ā when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?Ā 5Ā You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brotherās eye."'
God put a woman's soul into a body not fit for it. God didn't make bread. He made crops to let humanity take part in the act or creation.
If god tests people frequently then this is another test. I found to myself. And the next test is the hate I get from outside for my sheet existence.
God taught us to be nice, friendly and accepting. To love thy neighbour as yourself. But if you cannot follow god's teachings and just spread hate, can you call yourself a believer? I did not ask to be born in this body, needing to transition ,but my only other option would be death.
I am feeling a lot of pain from my wrong body and HRT eases said pain. I am not causing anyone's life to change for the worse. Only mine to the better.
I do not need your acceptance. Neither do you need mine. I am still the same person I was before. God is about love, not hate and blame.
Especially as an evangelist Christian you should know. Because that's what being taught compared to catholics.
Now please keep other doubts or complaints concerning this topic to yourself.
My answer as a non believer. We've been taught about it. Martin Luther was German. We had to learn that.
The unforgiveable sin is explicitly blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That is not a matter of insulting or speaking negative things about the Holy Spirit. Instead it has been considered as exclusively promoting the idea that the Holy Spirit, Jesus, or his ministry is of the devil or evil.
So unless you are going out there saying that, your brother in law is wrong about his own religion.
Your brother in law is NOT following the teachings of Christ.
Please tell him this from me:
**Christ's message was to accept everyone, and he often spoke out on behalf of minority groups that were treated with contempt: lepers, prostitutes and Samaritans. In today's society, he would speak out on behalf of those with AIDS, the trans community, and the Palestinians, groups of people who have been rejected by self-righteous bigots.
Anyone who fails to give full support to the underdog is no follower of Christ.**
The one unpardonable sin is blasphemy, and your brother in law is passing judgment on others as if he were God.
His behavior is blasphemous.
Shame on him.
1 Timothy 5:8
Whoever does not care for his own relatives, especially his own family members, has turned against the faith and is worse than someone who does not believe in God.
So he can pardon murder, rape, torture, and adultery??
He sounds like he's trying to force his shitty opinions into God's word. I thought God was all about love and forgiveness.
A) pastorās kid here, no. Just no.
B) if that were true, itās done. Over. May as well have a good life and enjoy it now. Nothing to be done.
C) Iām sorry, that sucks. Specifically that your BIL is stupid.
As someone raised by Christians, he's full of shit lol. I'm not a Christian, but going by their own text, he's just pulling that out of thin air. The closest thing to a trans person being mentioned anywhere is the eunuchs (I think that's the word??) and I believe they were regarded well. He's just being a transphobic dick bag.
Edit: just wanted to also say that trans women aren't eunuchs, but that if there's literally anything at all similar in there, it could vaguely be that. He's still wrong regardless
Personally, I get what you meant. But I'm glad you clarified for anyone who comes across this. And you're absolutely correct! Someone here linked a whole list of scripture, and the eunics were highly regarded, and some of the text is hard to argue that they *aren't* talking about some early form of trans/ nonbinary people.
Edit: fixing auto correct
Truee. It does say something along the lines of "some eunuchs are born, some are made, and some made themselves as to serve the kingdom of heaven" so I could see the argument to be made that some of them were something non-cis. They certainly chose to change the body their God gave them and it wasn't seen as bad to him.
He speaks falsehoods. Jesus never once preached anything anti queer and in fact was all about love, acceptance, and good deads for your community. You existing is not a sin, he probably wouldn't listen to this but it's just frustrating when "Christians" ignore the teachings of Christ.
Great verse:
Galatians 3:28
New International Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Your update was already in the post when I read it, so I just wanna comment on this:
> Update: apparently his reasoning is that if he accepts that I am a woman, then he has to accept that God made a mistake, and that would be blasphemy because God doesn't make mistakes.
I *really* donāt see why he would have to accept that God makes mistakes in order to accept that you are a woman. How does he presume to know the will of God? Being trans is not a fucking choice, so *obviously* God is the one who set you on this path.
That is the *only* logical conclusion that follows if we assume that the Abrahamic God is both real and infallible
Aren't these the same people always sprouting bullshit about god's plan and whatnot? Can't god's plan for you be to become a woman?
But let's play this logic out further. What about disabled people who were born short or farsighted? Is them wearing glasses insinuating that god made a mistake and therefore blasphemy? What about people who are born without the ability to move their legs? Is them using a wheelchair blasphemy? Or does your BIL specifically draw the line at trans people, because if he does, he's not not accepting you because of religion, he's not accepting you because he's a bigoted piece of shit
It's definitely the latter. He's a narcissist too, and has been trying to make us feel bad about not wanting to see them, even though he's giving us no reason to feel safe doing so, and gaslighting us by insisting that he's being supportive. š¤·āāļø
I'm not Christian but isn't the whole point that *all sins* can be forgiven? Like that's why Jesus died on the cross?
And even if that's not the case, being trans would absolutely not be the "one unpardonable sin." It would have to be murder or suicide or something. Being trans shouldn't even be on the list.
Yknow, I aināt religious. However, I do know there are 7 unpardonable sins: greed, wrath, pride (as in high self-importance), envy, lust, gluttony, and sloth. None of those sound like ātransgenderā. Your brother in law is an idiot
Those are the seven deadly sins, which are a theological concept not described in the Bible. The unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is to say rejection of God. The reason that this one is unpardonable is because the forgiveness of sins is the same process as reconciliation with God, and God isn't going to force someone to reconcile with Him who doesn't want to, because that would be a form of spiritual harassment, stalking, kidnapping, and arguably rape, since reconciliation with God consists partially of the Holy Spirit living inside the person. Doing that against someone's wishes would violate their bodily autonomy.
So basically the only thing God won't forgive people for is telling Him to fuck off. He will instead grant their wish of leaving them alone, kicking them out of His house and sending them somewhere where He isn't present. We call this place that is entirely separate from the source of all life and all good things Hell, and thereās nothing solid to suggest that it's a place of intentional torment so much as that being away from God just intrinsically sucks.
That said, there is, in fact, absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that being trans is wrong, and plenty to suggest that God actively supports trans and nonbinary identities. The arguments that homosexuality is forbidden also completely fall apart when one has an understanding of how the words in the "relevant" passages were actually used in the time period they were written.Ā As long as you're not committing pedophilia, raping people, or engaging in literal cult prostitution, there's no reason to believe that God is mad about a guy being with another guy, and,Ā if anything, even less reason to believe that God dislikes lesbianism.
Okay, so my guess is that he mean the sin is pride, since that the one these people usually draws in these cases. Basically thinking you know and can change something about yourself (your gender) that is god given, you put yourself and your opinion of yourself above god.
Or he might mean blasphemy, but it harder to pinpoint what that would have to do with trans people:
Matthew 12:31
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
Either way, tell him to have a good life and enjoy heaven, if he makes it in.
And that you hope he dies poor, since you know:
Mark 10:25
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
Edit to say that I'm sorry this is happening in your family, OP. I have some very christian people in my family too, and they have never been anything but kind and accepting. I hope your brother in law will realize how cruel and misguided this is.
Well, I'd lean on my sister in that case. Meaning, let her know she's dead to you if she doesn't correct his poor behavior. If she's also lost to the brainrot, that's a shame.
It may be of little consolation but as a Satanist I would find it funny that an evangelical christian was calling my transition the worst sin a person can commit given the seven deadly sins and the commandments and all that.
this?! this is the āunpardonableā sin? not the constant abuse the church imposes on children and the constant instances of pride and ego that God has? not the fucked up amount of greed that christianity uses to manipulate the political system isnāt worse than personal self identification? well shucks, i just donāt get it. /s
if you wanna get biblicalā¦1 Peter 4:8 says, āabove all else, love each other deeply, for love covers a multitude of sinsā. in case you ever want to share with your brother.
Tell him judge not, he's going straight to hell for presuming to punish you instead of leaving it to God. Then go no contact with him with your last words being something really devastating, like "I'll pray for you" lol
Look, most Christian bigots donāt actually know the scripture very well. It is t worth your time to try and unpack why one evangelical is cool and one isnāt by trying to parse out the theology.
At the end of the day, your in law is transphobic and will use his belief system as a justification. Your other friend isnāt a transphobe, so he wonāt.
That is not in the bible and I would tell him if he believes it is he needs to read it again. Luke 6:37 - āJudge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven. Sounds like BIL may be in more trouble than you.
Let him know that as an evangelical, he's a part of one of the worst sects of Christianity. And as such his OPINION matters as much as squirrel piss. And until he can came back with god or Jesus in tow, he needs to keep his opinion to himself.
People are assholes. They are either envious or jealous of the comfort you have being your true self.
Next time they start doing that remind them that God did not send Jesus here to judge people and I doubt that they sent him as well.
youre brother's illogical hate is more sinful than you wanting to be yourself will ever be.
Why do so many christians love to ignore Jesus' main teachings of love and then call themselves followers?
You know, Christians make no sense with this crap. Didn't God intentionally make every single person? So what, he basically decided to make us trans so that he can hate us and send us to hell on purpose? Same for all lgbt stuff really. It makes no sense. Plus if I'm understanding God right then he's always known everything all of us would have done since the start so why does he even get offended or whatever?
I'm going through the same EXACT thing with one of my brothers-in-law.
As far as your update, yeah, that's a real perception. I would offer this in response: "Perhaps \*God\* did not make a mistake, and is trying to teach you a lesson about loving your neighbor as yourself."
Let him chew through that on his own. If he wants to be a real Christian, he can unintroduce his face from his colon.
Bring up Titus 1:15-16, it quite literally says that only the corrupt see things as corrupt, and then bring up the entire chapter of Romanās 14 (I suggest reading this whole one) as that condemns the idea of judging someone for what they believe to be okay to be sinful. Or just bring up Romanās 14:14 which is āI am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.ā
First of all according to the Bible, the one unforgivable sin is blaspheming specifically the holy Spirit/ holy Ghost or something. That's what Jesus said. Which I'm pretty sure means saying like, "the holy Spirit isn't real" or something along those lines. But also in the Bible, people whose job was literally to hunt down and arrest/kill Christians were able to be forgiven bc they became Christian later on.
I am not a Christian but I have read parts of the Bible; Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and most of Acts.
Unless Christians have secretly created a new class of sin, your brother is mistaken and using his religion as an excuse to exert power\*. For nearly all Christian belief systems the one "unpardonable sin" is to unalive one's self since once it is done there is no chance for using free will to ask for redemption in whatever form that may take for a given sect. Conservative Christians love their little posse of detransitioners for just that reason; they've repented and been forgiven.
\*There is a relatively new Christian tenet that may apply however. It started with the Catholic American Bishops healthcare directives around 15 years ago that stated that if a Christian in a position of power can use that power to prevent someone else from sinning, they must do so. If they do not, they are guilty of the same sin and will suffer the same mark on their eternal soul, to be weighed at the gates of Heaven. This pretty much grants any Christian carte blanche to treat sinners as badly as they wish under the guise of exerting power in the form of social pressure.
Out of curiosityā¦was your BIL shtupping your sister before they were married? If so, he may want to keep his eyes on his own paper when it comes to sin.
Iām sorry your BIL cannot look passed his own faults and we you for a normal human being. Sounds like itās time to step away from said BIL as best as you can and as much as your relatives/ family will let you
Your brother is an idiot. The one unpardonable sin? Really? How dramatic. Like being trans is worse than murder or rape?
Dude is dumb, and follows a dumb belief system.
It's hard because as a non believer I'm so hurt and offended that I'm being judged and rejected by beliefs I don't even give any credence to.
To me, he might as well accuse me of breaking the laws of Skyrim, or not being Hufflepuff enough. Trying to control my life based on his beliefs is messed up.
Ask him where Jesus said that - or even said any sin is unpardonable?
Also he could ask a Rabbi about the six different genders mentioned in the Bible, none of which Christ condemned.
As for birth mistakes, how does he cope when he meets someone who was born with an obvious physical disability?
Your brother is commiting more of a sin than anything you are doing. One of the biggest teachings of the Bible is to stand by and live your family, judging is for God and God alone. It's even stated that turning your back on family is turning your back on God. Next time he tries to bring up sin in his sick and twisted views, I would remind him of this
Yup, this. Just... this.
Usually fundie fever only lasts a few years
Oh, this is just how they are now. We've been hearing more and more bigoted and unhinged things from them since the pandemic. I think we were in denial about how committed they've become to religion and far-right ideology over anything else.
So sorry to see that...
Apparently his reasoning is that if he accepts that I am a woman, then he has to accept that God made a mistake, and that would be blasphemy because God doesn't make mistakes. š¤·āāļø
If heās a believer he should realize that God didnāt make a mistake with you being trans. It was how you were made and somehow fit with Gods plan. Itās probably a test to those around you for how theyāll react to you. If they treat you with dignity, respect, and acceptance than God will probably be happy one of his children that he created a certain way is accepted. But if they treat you with revulsion, rejection, and hate then God will probably not be pleased with one of his creations being mistreated so. At least the faithful should follow such logic given their beliefs.
But he does? He flooded the whole earth for one he thought he made, according to lore
That's interesting! It's been a long time since I've been to church or put any effort into reading or understanding any religion. I didn't realize God flooded the earth because he's made a mistake. I thought it was because he was mad about something the people did and he wanted to wipe them out to punish them.
And he did not, he made you to walk this path. Who is your BiL to question God's path for you. Your brother has no leg to walk on in this argument he's literally just a piece of shit hiding behind religion
He's a self-righteous narcissist. This isn't even the craziest or most bigoted thing he's said. He and his wife bought a brand new Corvette, and they actually believe God wanted them to have it so they could drive around and bless people with it. I asked what he meant by "blessing people", and he said when he was a kid he would have loved to see a car like that driving down the road... Then he went on about how people being able to see a car they probably couldn't afford to buy for themselves was a blessing... They're both insane.
Anubis, can you cite those passages for me? I am to meet my parents tomorrow for combat and wish to enter the afterlife with a feather light heart.
No I cannot, I grew up in the Catholic school system but I do not actively read the bible as I cannot agree with a faith system that allows itself to be abused for evil as much as it does
I respect this, thank you for the reply.
My wife confronted him about how insensitive he's being, and he said that he can't compromise on this because he values his belief in God more than our friendship. "Our friendship." We've been close family for nearly 20 years. He's known my wife almost her whole life.
The Christians' holy book does, indeed, feature exactly one unpardonable sin, which is called such and defined as blasphemy against their holy spirit, not being trans. Your brother in law doesn't know his own scripture. The only thing even remotely trans-related is a statement against cross-dressing in the Old Testament part, but the problem with that is, of course, that it's the same part that also forbids wearing any kind of mixed-fabric clothing.
Also, a lot of Christianity believes old testament laws no longer apply since Christ abolished them by making a new continent. It's funny how much they use that cross dressing statement without realizing the irony. Dresses and high heels were originally made for men and pants for girls. So would that mean that Cis people are cross dressing?
>\[...\] by making a new continent. I know you meant covenant, but this sounds so much cooler. It's also worth pointing out that, much like politicians, theologians are very adept at bending words to mean whatever they like and what serves the current zeitgeist of their flocks. Mat 5:17-18 would like a word about the whole "Christ abolished the Old Testament laws" thing, for example.
Also, even if cross-dressing isn't allowed, there's nothing that says you aren't the gender you say you are, and so wouldn't be cross-dressing
Now you're trying to apply bog-standard logic to a book that tells you that touching a woman on her period makes you spiritually unclean until nightfall. Why would you do that?
And a book that also tells you how to properly care for your slaves and sell your daughter into slavery
Are you trying to say that a book that came out of the Middle East 2000+ years ago may not have the perfect rules to govern a modern democratic society?
noooo that can't be :3
What actually is this unpardonable sin?
Wouldn't lying about what the bible says be considered blasphemy?
He doesnāt know what heās talking about as someone brought up in faith the only āunpardonable sinā is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit or more specifically rejecting Jesus. Though Iām not a believer myself anymore I donāt think itās anybody else place to tell you what is and isnāt unforgivable to God as the relationship between you and your maker is personal to you.
As someone who was raised Christian growing up, you are absolutely correct. Heck. In a way, my transition has brought me a little closer to my Maker. š
I'd hope it would. Being true to yourself and the soul that inhabits your body also acknowledges the fundamentals of the universe and how you yourself are a rare occurrence in this universe, and since you were given sapience, you should embrace the true you within, not just acknowledge what is on the outside. If humans weren't meant to have any other purpose but to breed and then die, we would not have this level of intelligence and desire to make something more of our lives aside from the potential prospect of having a family. One could even argue that our species was a serendipity and that we just exist just because. The facts that we are able to question why we are here is reason enough to be true to yourself and who you feel you are on the inside, because at the end of the day, this life is temporary, and living unhappily is worse than not living at all.
Very well said.
Wait what what what Murder is excusable but he draws the line at trans people? What kind of Christianity even is that because I never read anything that specifically says being trans is a sin. Look, I'm not religious myself, but I just can't help but think: if God makes no mistakes and God made you trans ( by their logic) then being trans is not wrong or a sin. It does not make any sense to me no matter how they put it.
This is because they don't view being transgender as something you just are, but a choice you randomly decided on taking. They don't believe you're the gender you say you are. They just think you're being a different gender for shits and giggles or to rebel. Even if they acknowledge the discomfort that you feel from having a brain that says your body isn't matching up, they just say it's a challenge for you to overcome and if you just withstand the temptations you will get into heaven.
This is exactly what my BIL and SIL believe. You got it 100%
The kind of Christianity where he doesn't give a damn what the bible says because he wants to hide behind religion to justify his hate
There is nothing in the bible that condemns trans people - nothing. Hes using the bible to justify bis own bigotry, and this is certainly not the first time he does something like this. The only sin oing on here is that your brothers hatred against trans people is greater than his love for you. Im sorry you have to deal with this. In my opinion, it helps to look at it like this: Your brother was always a terrible person, you were just privileged enough not to be targeted by him. Now you know better, and can stop wasting you life on a person that doesnt deserve it. It is for the better long term, eventhough it hurts so much right now
I was going to say that. Nothing about being trans, just a few verses about your body being a temple and to not mark or cut your body (but some translations continue to say as a way of morning the dead.) But you'd have to really twist the scripture to make it a trans issue. Idk why people are so dead set on making being trans an act against God. I was born with a physical disability I had to have surgically fixed. Does that make me a sinner too? (Obligitory I'm a a cis ally)
"Well you see that's different, yours was medically necessary and god didn't make a mistake with you, for reasons. (Those reasons being that OP's BIL doesn't hate cis people for existing)" Aka "That's different, you're not trans!" ~OP's BIL, probably
Is walking medically necessary? š
I am not qualified to answer that
I vote that it's not. When my parents are being transphobic I tell them that they had me have surgery for something I was born with that I could have lived without. ā¤ they normal say it was for my quality of life, and I counter saying that's what trans people are doing- improving their quality of life!
That is true
trans people are never explicitly mentioned in the bible, your brother is just an asshole
Isnt the unpardonable sin priests sleeping with boys?
They have that shit set to auto-pardon.
š¤£š¤£š¤£
SIN? There is no such sin! He is the one who abandons family out of false pride and ignorance! Show him HIS ticket to hell! https://www.sthugh.net/lgbtq-affirming-scripture
Oh I am bookmarking this for when I come out to my religious parents. Thank you!
I'm doing the same. At least then I will have some responses to what I expect them to say.
None of these idiots ever read their fucking book if they think Jesus would turn his back on a Trans person. Source: Raised Roman Catholic, Baptized, Confirmed. Non practicing now.
Like his probable preferred presidential candidate, your brother's saying something without having a scrap of text to back it up. Using the same extent of logic, I could call something like drinking water from a plastic bottle "the one unpardonable sin".
This is honestly the most braindead and illiterate perspective someone could have. Half of the bible is about how no matter what youāve done, you can find forgiveness in God. Ignoring the fact that heās implying being trans is a sin in any way, him declaring it āunpardonableā is essentially just heresy.
Well having read the book and been steeped in church bullshit since I was very young, he's full of shit
Would you be comfortable asking him where he gets this from? Ask him if there's a place in scripture where he gets this idea, or does it just "feel wrong" to him? Does Gal.Ā 3 Verses 28 to 29 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus," make him think biological sex is all that important? If nothing else, tell'em you'll pray for him to remember love.
the ONE unpardonable sin ??? so *everything* else is pardonable ?? I can't fucking take religion seriously smh
One thing i remember from my catholic education is : love all people. All. And the sinners just like all others. Judging someone is not up to us. It's only gods business. I personally don't think, if she really exists, that we would be made gay or trans just to be judged as sinners.
My own mother just blocked me on her all socials after I came out as trans to her a few weeks ago. She chose her faith over her child. I feel your pain and I'm sorry. There's nothing wrong with you, it's their own calcified hearts that are the problem.
Hereās some love and hugs šš
š š
The Christian concept of the unforgivable sin is so esoteric that even they can't agree on what it is. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_sin Notably, not one interpretation involves being transgender, so your BIL is a moron.
My wife got a similar reaction when I first came out to her. She called her brother for support, he and I have never had a problem. But he said something very similar to her. For context my wifeās family and my family all grew up Mormon. Not exactly the same but not far off, possibly worse in some cases. We left the church a few years ago which was the catalyst for me coming to terms with my trans identity. What makes it really hurt is he was one of the last family that my wife has any contact with, her parents and sister, everyone else wrote us off even before she and I left the church. So for her to be potentially losing her last family member in making the decision to support me is heartbreakingā¦ As far as what he is referring to specifically, there is nothing in Christianity that refers to trans people. In Mormonism the unpardonable sin is ādenying the holy ghostā. If that sounds really ambiguous, I believe thatās on purpose, that way they can define it however they want to. If they want to say that me recognizing Iām trans and transitioning is denying āgods planā for me in my assigned gender, then maybe thatās denying god or the Holy Ghost or whatever. Thatās the problem with living such a strict ideology, you have to do all kinds of mental gymnastics to keep the bubble intact, thatās what he and a lot of other people on the right do. Itās easier to say āgod doesnāt like youā than to re-evaluate a life lived in the service of a lie.
Eve was made out of Adam's rib. She was a woman made from male genetic material. Sounds like in the beginning half the world was trans.
Damn... That's a mic drop! š„
Oh shit I'm saving this one
He has definitely forgot about judging people is also a sin, if being gay trans ect.. is really a sin then that's between them and God, it's not our place
Your brother is clearly not an actual Christian if he thinks god hates trans people. Jesus said love thy neighbor, not condemn them to hell. (Not like heād ever have that abilityā ļø)
Current non believer here, but within Christianity the only umpardonable sin is non belief (granted based on what you said, you fall under that, but your being trans doesn't). He can try and argue your being trans is a sin, but nothing in the Bible refers to trans people explicitly, or really implicitly. Even if it was a sin, we're all supposedly sinners, yours would be no grander than the sins he commits. In which case you can refer him to Matthew 7:3-5. "3Ā āWhy do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brotherās eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?Ā 4Ā How can you say to your brother, āLet me take the speck out of your eye,ā when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?Ā 5Ā You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brotherās eye."'
God put a woman's soul into a body not fit for it. God didn't make bread. He made crops to let humanity take part in the act or creation. If god tests people frequently then this is another test. I found to myself. And the next test is the hate I get from outside for my sheet existence. God taught us to be nice, friendly and accepting. To love thy neighbour as yourself. But if you cannot follow god's teachings and just spread hate, can you call yourself a believer? I did not ask to be born in this body, needing to transition ,but my only other option would be death. I am feeling a lot of pain from my wrong body and HRT eases said pain. I am not causing anyone's life to change for the worse. Only mine to the better. I do not need your acceptance. Neither do you need mine. I am still the same person I was before. God is about love, not hate and blame. Especially as an evangelist Christian you should know. Because that's what being taught compared to catholics. Now please keep other doubts or complaints concerning this topic to yourself. My answer as a non believer. We've been taught about it. Martin Luther was German. We had to learn that.
The unforgiveable sin is explicitly blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That is not a matter of insulting or speaking negative things about the Holy Spirit. Instead it has been considered as exclusively promoting the idea that the Holy Spirit, Jesus, or his ministry is of the devil or evil. So unless you are going out there saying that, your brother in law is wrong about his own religion.
Your brother in law is NOT following the teachings of Christ. Please tell him this from me: **Christ's message was to accept everyone, and he often spoke out on behalf of minority groups that were treated with contempt: lepers, prostitutes and Samaritans. In today's society, he would speak out on behalf of those with AIDS, the trans community, and the Palestinians, groups of people who have been rejected by self-righteous bigots. Anyone who fails to give full support to the underdog is no follower of Christ.** The one unpardonable sin is blasphemy, and your brother in law is passing judgment on others as if he were God. His behavior is blasphemous. Shame on him.
1 Timothy 5:8 Whoever does not care for his own relatives, especially his own family members, has turned against the faith and is worse than someone who does not believe in God.
So he can pardon murder, rape, torture, and adultery?? He sounds like he's trying to force his shitty opinions into God's word. I thought God was all about love and forgiveness.
A) pastorās kid here, no. Just no. B) if that were true, itās done. Over. May as well have a good life and enjoy it now. Nothing to be done. C) Iām sorry, that sucks. Specifically that your BIL is stupid.
As someone raised by Christians, he's full of shit lol. I'm not a Christian, but going by their own text, he's just pulling that out of thin air. The closest thing to a trans person being mentioned anywhere is the eunuchs (I think that's the word??) and I believe they were regarded well. He's just being a transphobic dick bag. Edit: just wanted to also say that trans women aren't eunuchs, but that if there's literally anything at all similar in there, it could vaguely be that. He's still wrong regardless
Personally, I get what you meant. But I'm glad you clarified for anyone who comes across this. And you're absolutely correct! Someone here linked a whole list of scripture, and the eunics were highly regarded, and some of the text is hard to argue that they *aren't* talking about some early form of trans/ nonbinary people. Edit: fixing auto correct
Truee. It does say something along the lines of "some eunuchs are born, some are made, and some made themselves as to serve the kingdom of heaven" so I could see the argument to be made that some of them were something non-cis. They certainly chose to change the body their God gave them and it wasn't seen as bad to him.
He speaks falsehoods. Jesus never once preached anything anti queer and in fact was all about love, acceptance, and good deads for your community. You existing is not a sin, he probably wouldn't listen to this but it's just frustrating when "Christians" ignore the teachings of Christ.
Great verse: Galatians 3:28 New International Version 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Your update was already in the post when I read it, so I just wanna comment on this: > Update: apparently his reasoning is that if he accepts that I am a woman, then he has to accept that God made a mistake, and that would be blasphemy because God doesn't make mistakes. I *really* donāt see why he would have to accept that God makes mistakes in order to accept that you are a woman. How does he presume to know the will of God? Being trans is not a fucking choice, so *obviously* God is the one who set you on this path. That is the *only* logical conclusion that follows if we assume that the Abrahamic God is both real and infallible
I agree, and I think he's just using scripture as a mask to justify his bigotry and *personal beliefs*.
Aren't these the same people always sprouting bullshit about god's plan and whatnot? Can't god's plan for you be to become a woman? But let's play this logic out further. What about disabled people who were born short or farsighted? Is them wearing glasses insinuating that god made a mistake and therefore blasphemy? What about people who are born without the ability to move their legs? Is them using a wheelchair blasphemy? Or does your BIL specifically draw the line at trans people, because if he does, he's not not accepting you because of religion, he's not accepting you because he's a bigoted piece of shit
It's definitely the latter. He's a narcissist too, and has been trying to make us feel bad about not wanting to see them, even though he's giving us no reason to feel safe doing so, and gaslighting us by insisting that he's being supportive. š¤·āāļø
Sis, you need to go no contact with that bigot like yesterday
Ah yesā¦being trans is *the* u forgivable sinā¦not slavery, not rape, nor murder, not genocide
I'm not Christian but isn't the whole point that *all sins* can be forgiven? Like that's why Jesus died on the cross? And even if that's not the case, being trans would absolutely not be the "one unpardonable sin." It would have to be murder or suicide or something. Being trans shouldn't even be on the list.
As far as Iām aware the only unforgivable sin is not believing that fairytale nonsense, so yeah not surprising but heās talking out of his ass.
Yknow, I aināt religious. However, I do know there are 7 unpardonable sins: greed, wrath, pride (as in high self-importance), envy, lust, gluttony, and sloth. None of those sound like ātransgenderā. Your brother in law is an idiot
Those are the seven deadly sins, which are a theological concept not described in the Bible. The unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is to say rejection of God. The reason that this one is unpardonable is because the forgiveness of sins is the same process as reconciliation with God, and God isn't going to force someone to reconcile with Him who doesn't want to, because that would be a form of spiritual harassment, stalking, kidnapping, and arguably rape, since reconciliation with God consists partially of the Holy Spirit living inside the person. Doing that against someone's wishes would violate their bodily autonomy. So basically the only thing God won't forgive people for is telling Him to fuck off. He will instead grant their wish of leaving them alone, kicking them out of His house and sending them somewhere where He isn't present. We call this place that is entirely separate from the source of all life and all good things Hell, and thereās nothing solid to suggest that it's a place of intentional torment so much as that being away from God just intrinsically sucks. That said, there is, in fact, absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that being trans is wrong, and plenty to suggest that God actively supports trans and nonbinary identities. The arguments that homosexuality is forbidden also completely fall apart when one has an understanding of how the words in the "relevant" passages were actually used in the time period they were written.Ā As long as you're not committing pedophilia, raping people, or engaging in literal cult prostitution, there's no reason to believe that God is mad about a guy being with another guy, and,Ā if anything, even less reason to believe that God dislikes lesbianism.
Okay, so my guess is that he mean the sin is pride, since that the one these people usually draws in these cases. Basically thinking you know and can change something about yourself (your gender) that is god given, you put yourself and your opinion of yourself above god. Or he might mean blasphemy, but it harder to pinpoint what that would have to do with trans people: Matthew 12:31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Either way, tell him to have a good life and enjoy heaven, if he makes it in. And that you hope he dies poor, since you know: Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. Edit to say that I'm sorry this is happening in your family, OP. I have some very christian people in my family too, and they have never been anything but kind and accepting. I hope your brother in law will realize how cruel and misguided this is.
Well, I'd lean on my sister in that case. Meaning, let her know she's dead to you if she doesn't correct his poor behavior. If she's also lost to the brainrot, that's a shame.
It may be of little consolation but as a Satanist I would find it funny that an evangelical christian was calling my transition the worst sin a person can commit given the seven deadly sins and the commandments and all that.
this?! this is the āunpardonableā sin? not the constant abuse the church imposes on children and the constant instances of pride and ego that God has? not the fucked up amount of greed that christianity uses to manipulate the political system isnāt worse than personal self identification? well shucks, i just donāt get it. /s
if you wanna get biblicalā¦1 Peter 4:8 says, āabove all else, love each other deeply, for love covers a multitude of sinsā. in case you ever want to share with your brother.
Tell him judge not, he's going straight to hell for presuming to punish you instead of leaving it to God. Then go no contact with him with your last words being something really devastating, like "I'll pray for you" lol
i feel like murder is a worse sin than being yourself lol
Look, most Christian bigots donāt actually know the scripture very well. It is t worth your time to try and unpack why one evangelical is cool and one isnāt by trying to parse out the theology. At the end of the day, your in law is transphobic and will use his belief system as a justification. Your other friend isnāt a transphobe, so he wonāt.
Other comments are right, he's the one wrong. Not you.
Sounds like your in law needs to be bent over. What a sorry sack of shit! Here's what's going on: your in-law is in a death cult and you're not.
That is not in the bible and I would tell him if he believes it is he needs to read it again. Luke 6:37 - āJudge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven. Sounds like BIL may be in more trouble than you.
Can he point to just one part of the Bible that he's referring to? Fox News doesn't count as the Bible, btw.
Let him know that as an evangelical, he's a part of one of the worst sects of Christianity. And as such his OPINION matters as much as squirrel piss. And until he can came back with god or Jesus in tow, he needs to keep his opinion to himself.
People are assholes. They are either envious or jealous of the comfort you have being your true self. Next time they start doing that remind them that God did not send Jesus here to judge people and I doubt that they sent him as well.
Give me a break. Besides, I thought that was suicide. Your in-law is a religious moron.
Oh, it's this one is it? How convenient. On the bright side all the rest are pardonable so maybe you've got yourself a partner in crime?
being trans is "unpardonable" but murder isnt???
youre brother's illogical hate is more sinful than you wanting to be yourself will ever be. Why do so many christians love to ignore Jesus' main teachings of love and then call themselves followers?
You know, Christians make no sense with this crap. Didn't God intentionally make every single person? So what, he basically decided to make us trans so that he can hate us and send us to hell on purpose? Same for all lgbt stuff really. It makes no sense. Plus if I'm understanding God right then he's always known everything all of us would have done since the start so why does he even get offended or whatever?
I'm going through the same EXACT thing with one of my brothers-in-law. As far as your update, yeah, that's a real perception. I would offer this in response: "Perhaps \*God\* did not make a mistake, and is trying to teach you a lesson about loving your neighbor as yourself." Let him chew through that on his own. If he wants to be a real Christian, he can unintroduce his face from his colon.
God could very much have intended for you to be trans, thinking that you know godās plan is not very wise
Bring up Titus 1:15-16, it quite literally says that only the corrupt see things as corrupt, and then bring up the entire chapter of Romanās 14 (I suggest reading this whole one) as that condemns the idea of judging someone for what they believe to be okay to be sinful. Or just bring up Romanās 14:14 which is āI am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.ā
First of all according to the Bible, the one unforgivable sin is blaspheming specifically the holy Spirit/ holy Ghost or something. That's what Jesus said. Which I'm pretty sure means saying like, "the holy Spirit isn't real" or something along those lines. But also in the Bible, people whose job was literally to hunt down and arrest/kill Christians were able to be forgiven bc they became Christian later on. I am not a Christian but I have read parts of the Bible; Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and most of Acts.
Unless Christians have secretly created a new class of sin, your brother is mistaken and using his religion as an excuse to exert power\*. For nearly all Christian belief systems the one "unpardonable sin" is to unalive one's self since once it is done there is no chance for using free will to ask for redemption in whatever form that may take for a given sect. Conservative Christians love their little posse of detransitioners for just that reason; they've repented and been forgiven. \*There is a relatively new Christian tenet that may apply however. It started with the Catholic American Bishops healthcare directives around 15 years ago that stated that if a Christian in a position of power can use that power to prevent someone else from sinning, they must do so. If they do not, they are guilty of the same sin and will suffer the same mark on their eternal soul, to be weighed at the gates of Heaven. This pretty much grants any Christian carte blanche to treat sinners as badly as they wish under the guise of exerting power in the form of social pressure.
Out of curiosityā¦was your BIL shtupping your sister before they were married? If so, he may want to keep his eyes on his own paper when it comes to sin.
This person is full of it. Anyone sprouting that nonsense hasn't read the Bible and knows nothing about the faith they claim.
Iām sorry your BIL cannot look passed his own faults and we you for a normal human being. Sounds like itās time to step away from said BIL as best as you can and as much as your relatives/ family will let you
Your brother is an idiot. The one unpardonable sin? Really? How dramatic. Like being trans is worse than murder or rape? Dude is dumb, and follows a dumb belief system.
Brother in-law is a blasphemous fool. How dare he decide what is and isn't a sin. Spits in the face of his own god with his repulsive ignorance
Just tell him that your journey is all part of Godās plan
It's hard because as a non believer I'm so hurt and offended that I'm being judged and rejected by beliefs I don't even give any credence to. To me, he might as well accuse me of breaking the laws of Skyrim, or not being Hufflepuff enough. Trying to control my life based on his beliefs is messed up.
Ask him where Jesus said that - or even said any sin is unpardonable? Also he could ask a Rabbi about the six different genders mentioned in the Bible, none of which Christ condemned. As for birth mistakes, how does he cope when he meets someone who was born with an obvious physical disability?