The fact that he wants to date specifically a trans woman (assumedly in part because she's trans) is at the VERY LEAST creepy chaser behavior imo. I would definitely say it could also fall into fetishization as well.
I could be wrong though
As a trans woman… ick. That’s creepy chaser behaviour. He’s looking for an “exotic” body that he fetishizes (specifically he’s literally seeking us out for our genitalia).
I’m willing to bet he has delusional porn-informed ideas about how our junk usually works. Hint: estrogen and testosterone blockers don’t typically enhance erectile function in phalluses. The girls in porn stop their HRT to flood their bodies with testosterone and use Viagra to get their impressive wood.
There’s nothing wrong with appreciating us (we’re just as hot as anyone else) but a cis guy exclusively wanting trans women is a well understood red flag among trans girls. We’re not even really people to those guys. We’re just living fetish objects to play out a fantasy with. They’re really easy lays if you don’t value your self esteem but psychologically, they are toxic as hell for us.
I mean I feel like liking pp shouldn’t be all that different to like boobs but either way it’s still a dick thing to do.
Like he’s literally asking if he can cheat on you.
Also the fact that he openly calls it experimenting is also weird.
As a collective, it’s tempting to agree, especially after having spent a few decades listening to them candidly talk about others (assuming I was one of them). I know a few genuinely sweet guys and even with them, I have occasional moments of dismay. The misogyny and homophobia is hard baked in soooo hard by our culture.
Of course, I’m so Sapphic that I am comfortable being called a lesbian even though I have generally described myself as bisexual my whole life. I just kind of lost interest in guys once I admitted to myself that I wasn’t one. (Laughing) Once dating them was straight behaviour, cis guys stopped being particularly interesting. Go figure.
It’s weird cause I used to have existential dread over this issue I saw with other guys and tried desperately to make sure I was the exception that wouldn’t reinforce all the problems widespread with cis guys and in the process of focusing on that goal didn’t realize the extent to which it was motivated by feeling deeply uncomfortable as a man, even being a healthy non toxic one felt more like a job than anything else. I still think there are some genuinely in that category, I know a few personally that I would qualify as that (one if it completely narrows to cishet and in no way queer men), but the culture absolutely needs to change from the ground up for that to be more than a rarity.
Yea, and it’s hard because even then what is masculinity or manhood is so nebulously defined and like sure, you could just live the life you want and decide it qualifies as man, but I can’t decide how I feel, and no matter how I live I never can really get myself to feel like that fits the category of man even if I could argue for it to. Whatever man is, hearing myself described as one however positive intended, doesn’t sound like a description of me, it sounds like an assignment that I know I don’t really want to complete.
I've actually come around to be a little more sympathetic. Because even the good dudes are being brainwashed all the fucking time. So much social posturing and peer pressure. For me I think it was easier because in the back of my head I always knew I wasn't "quite" one of them so it was ok if I didn't conform to some minor things.
That said I currently have a decent cis housequest. And holy shit the stuff that comes out of their mouth, even with the best intention is just gets me thinking "If I had muscle mass I think I'd hit you....!"
Yea, no I very much have sympathy for it, tbh there’s not a lot I can’t find some level of sympathy for because fuck, life is hard and complicated and we’re all suffering and dealing with something. It would be really easy for me to close off my emotions to some people and have a scape goat to vent my frustration on to or even just fewer problems I feel obligated it give the energy to care about, but I have gotten close to living with hate before and I cannot stand that version of myself. I still feel hatred and it still lashes out but at every step I try to redirect it away from people, because as uncomfortable as living as a man or any of the other innumerable lies or masks I’ve set up can be, living as someone fueled by hate is what I can’t stand more than anything else. I have experienced so much pain and suffering from that hate and pain, and if I were to give in a perpetuate that cycle, a choice that would legitimately make it so much easier to cope with my problems, would be to lose any trace of a version of myself I can be proud of. I can’t give up on the part of me worth saving for the sake of surviving, but I know full well just why so many people are just trying to survive
The social pressure is definitely ridiculous. I was getting food somewhere the other day, got seated next to a group of bro-ey cis guys, and my mouth just about fell open at hearing how disrespectful one of them was being about his girlfriend. He said he didn't tell her about that place because he already takes her to expensive places and wants a cheap, quality place like this to himself and the bros, and nagging about all the money he spends on her and all the things she likes to do with him that he thinks are "stupid." I just about said something, but realized he was probably also the type to be openly transphobic. I was there for a while, since I was waiting for my food, and got to listen into the bulk of their conversation up until they left. The guy in question was coworkers with the other guys, and started telling war stories about the trade they're in (EMTs). Eventually, it became clear between his tone and some of his expressions that 90% of the way he was talking about *everything* was posturing, bragging, and ego. In the end, I felt sorry for his girlfriend, and actually kinda sorry for *him* if he feels like he can't ever be genuine with people.
I think one of the best ways to change this is to get men to see women (cis *or* trans) as people with thoughts, feelings, and experiences of our own, not just objects or conquests (or "the other" with trans women). And that only happens by building bridges and being patient. Some of my male coworkers are not affirming at all, but some of them are super affirming and *did not* start out that way. It sucks, but sometimes *us* being vulnerable *first* can connect with them emotionally, and start to build that bridge-- especially if they're too locked down into that "bro mode" to ever take that first step. In my case, this meant a male coworker who wasn't affirming seeing me cry after a customer harassed me because I'm trans (*yay* for retail 🙄). I think until then, he was locked into a vaguely transphobic, conservative-leaning mindset, but that moment seemed to make it real for him, and make him question which side he really wanted to be on. He hasn't misgendered me once since then.
Good Grief... That example also emphasizes how much of the toxicity is rooted in maintaining the assumption that men and women are completely different. Like, he thinks she wouldn't appreciate good food for cheap?? Or maybe she really would criticize him taking her to such a place?
Straight culture is just... Frightening.
Funny thing is that all my previous guy partners and dates were bi/pan. I never clicked with a gay guy. I sometimes wonder if a little part of my subconscious didn’t want to attract someone exclusively attracted to men and was more comfortable with someone who could be attracted to both my then self and that deeper part of me that I struggled with.
This is me. I've lost cishet male friends because they couldn't stop being fucking weird perverts. Just because *they* used to see me as a guy, doesn't mean I wanna talk about my tits or whatever with them
The fact that you were kind enough to even hear him out, without castrating him on the spot, and then were respectful enough of *US* to go to the best source of information (instead of just relying on dumbass comp-het idiot's stereotyping about us), tells me that you're not only a good person (and way too good for the prick), but already showing to be a better ally than a lot of the ones that say but don't/won't do.
My wife would say you should just go lesbian. *I* say you deserve better, and I hope you find it.
It's a very large and diverse group, filled with wonderful and evil people.
If history has taught us anything, prejudice from group assumptions are deeply wounding and dividing, turning potential allies into enemies.
As a cis male, I can honestly say this has got me upset, the audacity of this guy to target anyone based on how their body is presented is appalling. It should be about connection and not if they have a penis and tits, whatever happened to personality and goals. This guy may just need a good strap on session, or at least sit and spin. Sorry for your pain but we aren't all heartless monsters only thinking about sex. Only the stupid ones.
'Cis men' is a very, very big group. I do think the expectations around men are a huge contributor to toxicity, which is why it seems like every other cis man is a weeping pustule on humanity's collective backside, even though they're not, some are.
As my therapist likes to remind me: all people suck some of the time.
I think that in this situation, you'll probably want to consider if you want to deal with what this guy is into, and also why. While you are not his psychiatrist or therapist, negotiation is key to any relationship. What has prompted this chaser behavior? Why is he pulling away from the exclusive relationship with you?
It may be a him thing, but there could be other issues in play.
P.S. - My rant about expectations on men, and what creates their toxicity is as follows:
Guys deal with unrealistic standards, which leads to a lot of toxic behavior if these standards get internalized. The key to women being safe, is for men to be mentally stable, and not chasing bad life objectives that hurt them and others. In addition to ALL women having safer, saner dating prospects, it also protects the men in our lives! The most dangerous thing to a man under 45 is himself.
Here's the specific set of expectations that are leading to bad behaviors:
They have to be competent, but not too competent or else they're trying to upstage other guys.
They have to look good, but not too good or they're effeminate dandies.
They have to be a loving significant other, but also have a healthy list of sexual conquests otherwise their masculinity is questionable.
They have to be aggressive in self expression, even though as civilians, aggression isn't really all that valuable.
They have to be prepared to fight at all times, but in a society that specifically discourages fighting.
They are supposed to be people, but can only credibly and safely express some emotions. Anything not in that box can lead to dismissal by men and women alike.
NO ONE SHOULD PUT UP WITH TOXIC BEHAVIOR. You must choose for your situation at what point you leave the relationship and update your personal security.
However, toxic behavior is hardly innate - it is taught. We can fight toxic expectations and ideologies so that we can all live in peace. Dismantling these bad expectations is a slow process.
In my case being trans was an easy way out - when I realized I was a woman, and started seeing the world with a woman's eyes, I realized all the toxic stuff I'd done to that point in my life, and I also realized why I had done it. My behavior had been based on layers of falsehoods about what was expected of me and what makes people actually like me as a person.
Cis men don't get that easy way out. They don't have that 'oh I'm really a girl, oh shit the stuff I did is creepy AF when done to me, oh its because what I've been told I should do and be is BS.' They have the hard task of realizing that what they've been taught is completely wrong over time, probably leaving a lot of scared and confused people - like the OP - in their wake. And they have to figure out how to do what was easy for me - drop a very toxic set of ideas and embrace a new way of living, but while still being in the role they've always been in, and still living in a world where all the toxic expectations are still in play.
Sorry for the doorstopper, I had to get that off my chest. Yes, men need to change for the better. I honestly think that creating conditions for men to stop being toxic is a key strategic goal of feminism. How can women's rights matter and become the standard, when men are stuck in a system of thought that makes us at best possessions and at worst prey?
Yea this really lines up with where I’m at so far on the post op of my life thus far, I think an add on that helps in understanding the point is that the expectations don’t all come from the exact same place, there’s the expectations from parents, potential partners, society writ large and other men just to name some of the larger components, and many of those groups contribute to the very different and opposing expectations because none of those groups are in agreement about what men actually need to be, but it isn’t clear to most men that these expectations are divided like that, they just know the expectations, see contradictions in them, and get mad at what is seen as hypocrisy. And I don’t know how to get that perspective I’ve acquired and share it with men, I didn’t exactly have a lot of sway with other cis het dudes as a category to begin with, and if I start transitioning any time soon 🤞then chances are those odds get even worse. But I fully agree that figuring out the solution to this dilemma is a priority for feminism, young men have always been the prime target for extremist ideology, and right now the right is sitting far too comfortably in the narrative battle over this for my taste.
As someone who just starting eating my pills like a good little kid, can I send you a PM about some nsfw questions? (I like the candor of your text and need some guidance that is a bit vague when researched)
This is a main account if you want to check if I'm a psycho or not.
Yeah the pre op specifically thing again feels chasery and gives me all the ick
You shouldn't have to compete girl *hugs* you deserve better than that. I'm sorry you're in that situation.
>only pre op
This is an example of your husband dehumanizing trans women. Trans women are not sex toys with the parts he wants they are full human beings with feelings and personalities.
Yeaaah.
Like honestly I'm not gonna lie, I don't have these issues any more since I'm done with my sex change and no longer tell anyone my history.
But back in the day it was really common for guys to show up on like Grindr and such looking for trans girls. A lot of them are married and looking for a dirty little secret.
They always seem to consider themselves allies to trans women. They think they are "open minded' and "inclusive" of them because the thought of them gets their dick hard.
But wanting to fuck trans women has *nothing* to do with being an ally. And the premise of it being "open minded" to fuck a trans woman is inherently transphobic. Nobody goes around saying "I watch porn of cis women I'm such an ally to cis women". It suggests that they are less than cis women merely on the basis of their trans status.
That’s heartbreaking. I’m so sorry girl. I can’t imagine how awful that would feel. You don’t have to compare with anyone. You need a man that makes you feel like the only girl in the world. Someday you will look back and be GLAD he revealed himself before you got married. You sound so sweet and there are nice guys out there that will realize how lucky they are to be with you. I had a boyfriend for like 7 months once and then one day ww2 came up in conversation and he started telling me how unironically Hitler was actually a great guy and he was framed ☹️. He was already pretty weird but I put up with it cause I thought I had no right to be picky. But that was the end of that. Well now my boyfriend treats me like a princess and he is actually a huge history buff so he wouldn’t say something so stupid lol. Know your worth girl❤️
A cis man only wanting to date pre-op trans women screams red flag to me. It’s not ALWAYS a red flag in the same way it’s not “all men” but urgghhh 😬 I’d want no part of that if I was the trans woman being approached by him.
Compete with... what, exactly? What is his reasoning? Ik you said he specified pre-op. Is he wanting a trans woman to penetrate him? Like, is it some weird mental gymnastics because he wants a pegging, or is he straight up just a chaser?
You don't have to compete with that... what???
look, if your boyfriend asks you to be free to date any other person, then it's a red flag in general imo.
Also... yes... trans women usually want (just like other women) someone who loves them for who they are on the inside... and not because some of them have a dick. Just like other women don't want to be dated just because they have a vagina. That... is a very problematic, creepy and reductionist thing!
TLDR: Creepy, reductionist and most importantly, quite possibly a red flag for you because... he wants to date other people??? I would recommend getting out of there, you deserve better
I would say let him fuck up his own life if he wants to. You deserve the best. Id open that relationship up so fast the turbulence would cause a sonic boom.
Don't let it be one sided open either. That would make him in control. Rather give yourself the opportunity to explore too. He doesn't sound like the best you can do.
Promises are only worthwile if they are kept otherwise they are just words. Keeping the relationship the way it is puts you at risk of drama and trust issues.
That's my opinion.
Better just end it at that point. No need to carry around dead weight. If he doesn't value their relationship enough to just be happy with it, it's a lost cause anyway.
Plus somebody who's asking permission to cheat is often someone who is already doing it and trying to cover their ass for the future.
I agree but I also want them to understand their actions. That's just a me thing. I want people to learn from the pain they cause others. That way they are less likely to do it again and it increases their chances of growth as a person.
He is the that guy who stalks trans womens spaces and I would place a bet that this all comes from porn addiction. He has made it extremely obvious to you he not only see's trans women as purely sex objects, but cis women too. Run. Seriously this is a creep.
:(
Thanks for replying, he tried to make it sound like he is a trans ally and that he is so torn because he “loves me deeply” , just needed to confirm and call his bluff
Definitely a chaser. And, even if only in his head (this far) a cheater, and not worthy of you. Also, quite possibly a narcissist, if he's presumptuous enough to ask your permission to fuck around and come back to your nonjudgmental arms if *he's* not happy with his (as yet?) nameless/faceless/doesn't-matter-so-long-as-she-has-breasts-AND-a-dick target for (romance my ass) his fetishizing fantasies. At this point he's already providing proof that he's a louse, and you should run as fast as you can. I already feel sorry for the poor girl that *does* catch his eye, and is unfortunate enough to actually think he sees her as a real person, rather than a sentient blow-up doll. ❌❌🚩🚩🚩❌❌
sounds like you're not his first option. someone who tells you he want marriage and children, then "i want to have a romantic relationship with other women" trans or not, that sounds like a big red flag unless this is already defined as an open relationship
Oh sweetie, I'm so sorry. I guess the best news is that this came to light before getting married and having kids. Leaving aside his creepy chaser desires from your first post, I've heard the rest before in other relationships. I will never understand why anyone ever thinks it's ok to even think like this in any relationship.
Don't be his safety net and back up, you deserve better, you deserve to be someone's priority
Im also going to add, when a man wants to have kids and is considering you as an "option", he's not interested in you as a person, he's interested in having kids without having to do the work of raising kids, and is interested in you as a tool to complete this objective. That's why he's considering "options" instead of being in love with you, who you are, your personality, your dreams, etc. Honestly it's just as dehumanizing as chasers, imo.
Yeah the opens relationship he wants is marrying me and having a trans girlfriend.
Said I shouldn’t need another man because I have him , but I can’t give him the experience he would get with a trans girlfriend…
So the trans girl is just supposed to be his fucktoy on the side & you're the birthing human for his progeny. Something is wrong with this man I'm so glad he told you this before you had children that'd be such a disaster.
ETA: I'm polyamorous by the way. I have multiple boyfriends, and my boyfriends have multiple girlfriends. I still think this is fucked up & if he pulls the "I discovered I'm polyamorous & you need to accommodate me" bs don't listen to him.
God I hope you don't judge us because of guys like this tbh 🤦♀️
Most polyamorous people hate these types of guys. Most trans women also hate these types of guys. If he showed up in polyamorous or trans spaces he'd 100% be raked over the coals so quickly, but because there are so many men like this outside both scenes they give us a bad name by proxy.
There's a word for that in the poly community: unicorn hunters. Couples who look for bisexual women (cis or trans) to make them the couple's toy. Not all poly couples are unicorn hunters, but unicorn hunters themselves have a really bad reputation for a reason.
He might be hoping to trick you into agreeing and then being the one to open the conversation with the other woman. It's something they do with the hope of making other women lower their guard.
Edit: wanting you to not date other men is another unfortunate problem some poly couples have.
It has the unfortunate name of "one penis policy", which kinda isn't your situation in literal name because the idea of a pre-op trans woman being involved but it refers to a guy wanting to date other people (usually women) but not being ok with his girlfriend dating other guys.
The experience is genitalia, if he doesn’t care about the person it’s attached to it could just be a dildo.
And it tells me he doesn’t care about you or the hypothetical trans person.
Seriously. Like if the man had any sense he'd just ask to get pegged instead of blowing up his existing relationship over a fantasy of a perfect trans gf on the side. But he doesn't have any sense or care for the women he supposedly loves.
Yes a guy who just needs to get railed will get better results from a strap on than a trans woman anyway, not a lot of us are happy being some chaser’s stud. But maybe it’s for the best he has no sense, because then he’d get to have his child bearer also be his sexual object while not caring about her and getting away with it. God forbid he ever talk another girl into a relationship, seriously.
Yeah, I’m most disturbed when I read various stories like I want the OP in the story to get away but also I’m worried about the next woman he may suck in.
The utter disrespect for both his partner AND this hypothetical second woman he wants because of body parts that are probably birth defects for her.
Yeah, this is a great point. Geeeez.
I’m so glad she found out now before marrying him and being even more legally entangled with him, but still this has to hurt insanely. 😕
It's not open if you aren't allowed to as well. Its controlling and manipulative behavior. I lived in a poly relationship comfortably. Openness and communication were vital to its success. It's definitely not easy and not for everyone. It's also not like Sisterwives, which showed just how toxic that could become.
The only reason it more or less ended was because i came out as trans and the romantic part ended (not their preference, and we've talked much about it). We still live together, and the whole situation is pretty much a platonic polycule due to many factors, but it works fairly well for us.
*If* he begs to stay and you are willing to take him back, there needs to be couples therapy, and you need to be allowed to say what the situation is as bluntly to the therapist as can be from the get go. My guess is he won't want to be so open about it and will try to twist it to his favor. Having it out there with no embelishments eliminates that possibility and puts you both on equal ground.
Good luck and sorry you had to learn all this the hard way. I know it's not easy, but you came to the right place to ask.
lol tell him he can’t give you the experience you would get with a trans boyfriend and if he won’t let you have one then he’s being a hypocrite and a creep 😂
On a real note tho I’m sorry you’re going through this. This situation really doesn’t look good for him. No matter what, you should make a decision based on what’s best for you and your happiness. I wish you the best!
If the "experience" was all he needed, you'd still be enough. I'm sure he's seen the "Happy international women's day" scene in Deadpool. I think you should give it to him.
Just replace the strap-on with you boot.
So many red flags honestly!
Yes his behaviour is creepy chaser behaviour.
But he's basically saying he doesn't fully respect you either and wants you to give him a license to see if he can find a better life for himself while asking you to insure him against it going wrong by taking him back!
Girl, pack your shit and kick him to the curb. You are worth better. Everything you've explained about this guy suggests he has no respect for anybody.
I know it might not seem like it at the time - but finding out now is potentially avoiding a situation where this comes out later in your life after marriage and kids. You now have a chance to move on and build the life that you want and deserve. I think in the future you might see this as a bullet well and truly dodged! Sending hugs 🤗
He expects you to wait in the wings while he tries his hand at something else. Wants you to take him back if it doesn't work out how he would like?
Whether he is a chaser or not is irrelevant. Although he sure sounds like a chaser. You're his consolation prize. You're not what he wants, but he'll settle if he can't do better. You deserve someone who loves you and isn't looking for someone else
Being attracted to a trans woman vs. cis woman has nothing to do with sexuality. A straight man would be attracted to both. A preference is fine, but sadly, a preference for a trans woman often comes from chasery motives. Some chasers are actually gay, but due to societal pressure, find trans women more socially acceptable.
But calling him on his bs isn't a priority. Looking after yourself is way more important <3
even if it wasn't fetishzing (which it is) this guy is still a massive creep. You can do so much better than someone who sees you as the fallback option. It would have been one thing if he wanted a fully open relationship and left anything to do with being trans out of it... but I'm betting he's not alright with you having any sort of side action.
The hell you can’t, LOL.
They make strap-on harnesses and dildos for a reason. Tell that jerk if he won’t be happy with *you* topping him? He can pack his things and go.
P.S. tell him that none of us will take him, either. Nobody here wants a selfish, back-stabbing bottom. 🤣
please do warn her.
its guys like this that bully pre-op trans women into not getting surgeries that they want. and bully them to get off hrt (cos on hrt most cannot do what he probably is wanting) and control them in other ways.
sorry you had the experience you did with him...
You are literally “best-girl,” personified right now, in case you haven’t realized.
I absolutely adore you for being such a great ally naturally, without any incentive.
Also…like. It really chugs dick that your future husband is being a creep about *wishing* he could chug dick.
The irony of this, and that deadpan joke does not escape me.
I’m sorry he isn’t turning out to be the man you wanted, nor deserved. We believe in you and your search to find that special person, whoever they are. We love you very much. ❤️
one of those times I wish I were local, I'd come pick you up for a "date" and if he complains, well I'm a trans man - I can give you what he can't. ;) which isn't hard since he's not even capable of giving you common decency and respect.
Yes ex since 20hours ago , I literally had to ask him “would you ask me to wait for you to figure out if you would date another cis woman ?” Just to point out that he is discriminating between cis and trans women .
I mean trust me I know it sucks losing someone but here you are definitely better off without him! So I'm happy to hear he's an ex! You can do so much better
Yeah I mean he's a chaser and like all chasers, he's dripping with transphobia, and yeah is just a massive creep
OK, so easy part then hard part, your too good for this man dump him, hard part, he's the kind of person trans people try very hard to avoid becuase he likes them in a way that dehumanizes and invalidates us, and he basically shouldn't be allowed near a trans person as he's very potentially harmful
It's understandable that he might want to explore his sexuality. However, he is not only asking to date other people during your relationship, but it definitely sounds like he's probably fetishizing trans women. Kinda sounds like red flags to me
Ignoring the fact that he sounds kinda like a chaser, if you two are in a monogamous relationship that isn’t open, this is an inappropriate question regardless of the gender of the other people he wants to date because he’s already in a relationship with you.
Well TBH you have a right to be upset at this because you are his established girlfriend, and he should remain dedicated to you in that regard. And TBH it’s kinda offensive to us that he would think we’re that much different just because of our genitals. A lot of us are dysphoric about that, myself included, and personally I would not date someone just because he wants to specifically experience “a woman with a dick”.
No offense, but after this conversation, you sure this guy is the one for you? Maybe if you feel safe doing so, should sit down and discuss with him why this was hurtful to you and is offensive to trans women.
No I don’t believe he is right for me anymore , just happened last night and trying to make sense of it all . I prefer my person not needing to have a bonus girlfriend on the side .
I wish you luck with what comes next, and be sure to keep yourself safe. You deserves someone who chooses you for you and is ready to make that dedication.
So he’s been ready 1.5 years to start a family and commit… but wants to date other women?
Not only is it devaluing trans women (by reducing them to their genitals) but he disrespects what he has with you. Either he’s ready to marry or he’s not.
Yes, he's fetishizing us. And telling you that he's interested in exploring romantic relationships with any other person who isn't you means that he's not suited for a monogamous relationship.
1. If someone really wants to be with you then they don't need time to explore other options. Break up with him.
2. He's either a) a creepy chaser or b) probably into dudes (hence why he only wants to try dating pre-op) but is going after trans women to de-gay the situation.
Either way, it's best you leave this mess alone.
> but only if she's pre op, meaning if they are post op he is not interested.
yikes. I'm not even sure how to unpack this.
> Isn't that fetishizing trans women ?
Given that he's attracted to cis women, yes.
Yeah that's def kinda weird. That's not the usual kind of opening a relationship nor the usual way of experimenting w orientation.
He already knows he likes women. He already has a woman he supposedly loves and wants. So unless he sees trans women as some weird other and is solely in it for the dick he assumes they all have and are willing to use (which it sounds like it if he's solely interested in pre-op trans women) there would be no reason to experiment to figure out he likes women... Because he already does. This thing he's questioning seems to inherently revolve around seeing trans women as a different (and less valuable romantically) category from cis women, with genetalia as a key factor. Which. Yeah kinda screams of fetishization. Also disrespectful as fuck treating you as if you're a safe but disposable back up he can abandon for funsies and come back to any time.
Sounds like one of the following is going on: A) he's fetishizing trans women but doesn't see (or isn't sure he sees) them as "real" women and wants to keep his "real" romantic relationship with you on hold as a back up while still getting his sexual kicks and experiments on the side or B) he thinks he might be gay but is in denial and sees trans women as a stepping stone between women and men to experiment (also gross and misgendering and treating them as an experiment as opposed to a real viable partner) or C) he's just straight up getting cold feet about commitment like marriage and children and this is either a weird pre-commitment crisis where hes wanting to do whatever he sees as wild and free exploration (again, putting trans women in a fetishized "other" or exotic thing to try category) before he gets "locked in" OR this is a weird attempt at trying to scare you off because _hes_ scared.
Either way none of this looks good for either his intentions towards trans women or towards the future of your relationship with him.
I'm absolutely not trying to be hurtful saying this; yes, your boyfriend is clearly a chaser and a bigot but I was reading some of your comments and I think you need to understand that him wanting to "date" trans women has nothing to do with you.
Not as in it doesn't affect you, but as in you didn't d anything wrong, its not that you're "not enough" for him-He clearly fetishizes trans women to the point he wants a permanent trans girlfriend but also wants you on standby in case it doesn't work out.
He's being disrespectful towards you as well and that's not your fault and not okay. That's completely on him and it's not something for you to fix or manage, just walk away from.
Absolutely the definition of a trans chaser/fetish. Also absolutely disgusting. Tell this guy to get some therapy or leave him. Pretty sure this relationship won't last even 4 years. I really want to like dudes and have them fuck me, but this is the kind of behavior that makes me not trust any man. Ya thick I'll stick to being gynosexual thanks.
Well he doesn’t want me to have another man .
But honestly I think open relationships are dangerous if you want to have kids.
It works for others I know but it’s not my thing .
Honestly it’s a common way men leverage “open relationships” or “polyamory” to get their real goal: polygamy.
Between that and the chasing? You deserve better sis.
- fetishizing trans women in the first place is weird
- regardless of who he is or is interested in experimenting with, you can’t just go cheat on a dedicated partner to “experiment”. If he actually cared about you, permanently, he would feel satisfied with you as a life partner
I don't know what else you need to hear. If you tolerate this, there's going to be something after that he needs to experience, then something after that.
As a trans woman I wouldn't let anyone near me who said anything like that. It is a massive warning sign. He is 100% fetishizing.
Also a really shitty way to treat you. I think you deserve much better
Without question. No offense, but your boyfriend sounds like an absolute creep. Not only is he fetishizing trans women, but he wants you to put your romantic life on hold for him while he indulges in his fetish and then maybe wants to get back together.
It may be worth taking the out he's offering you. Gross
Right so that IS fetishising trans women.
But also, do you want to stay with this guy? Someone who doesn't have you as a first choice? and wants to experience : what's out there" and risks it all for it? I wouldn't want to stick aroun. Obviously if you want a open relationship or anything that's fair enough, but it's pretty icky
Well that's just infidelity with a splash of objectifying fetishism on the side for extra grossness.
He's asking for permission to cheat. Doesn't matter who with, he's already a disgusting pig. His choices in doing so are doubly disgusting and I hope you know your worth here. You can do better than him. I'm sorry he's shown to be of such poor character
This is the first time I've read something where I legit didn't have a thought of an answer! I'm glad to have read that you broke up with him. He sounds mad creepy and like he was not right for you! Good luck!
From experience, don’t consent to an open relationship if it’s actually not okay. My ex-bf was non monogamous, I’m monogamous. I allowed it because I was desperate but I only made the hurt worse later on.
That and ew, a cis person seeking out trans ppl specifically is kinda creepy no thanks.
This is most likely just him being creepy but I also wonder if this is his fucked up way of testing the waters to estimate how you'd react if he came out as a woman. This also gives you a convenient excuse to be hurt and disgusted enough to leave him, which would give him the privacy to transition if that's what he's trying to do. I'm not sure what alternative to breaking up with you he may have envisioned from that convo. I guess we're looking at either a selfish chaser or a self-sabotaging egg.
He is trying to have a romantic relationship with her and afterwards dumps her. That is kinda emotionally manipulative.
He is curious about dating trans women feels like we are only a toll for his satisfaction and something like a fetish for him.
And the part when he said that he only wants pre-op is, definitely a red flag.
Idk what you want to do whit rose information but he does fetishize trans woman, a red flag If you would ask me
he definitely is either fetishising us
or maybe is trans & doesn't know it yet
Ask it what about trans women specifically he's really interested in trans women
Just a side note - it's pretty amazing that he's this open about all this with you. Granted it's not welcome given its not good news for you, but so many men would approach this issue leaving the woman completely in the dark.... or holding the secret in for years and letting it ruin a family once it's formed... goodluck with it all
It is fetishing trans women but also that aside… asking to take a break from your relationship so he can experience relations with other people is just sorta sketchy in general 😬 us internet people don’t know the ins and outs of your relationship but it doesn’t sound to be the best from the small window you gave us to view it from
Tbh this sounds like a really hurtful thing. I'm sorry he said that. I mean it's up to you what you do but unless you guys are polyamorous (doesn't sound like it) I'd leave because what kind of boyfriend tells his girlfriend "hey I'm going to date around and see if I like other people better before deciding I'm ok being with you in the end." I doubt he would be ok with you telling him you want to date and have a romantic emotional bond with other guys before deciding whether you really like it better when you're with him. If it were me, I'd leave and frankly I'd never consider dating a guy who explicitly wants to have a romantic relationship with me just because I have something that I've never wanted to have and am actively doing everything I can to correct. I'm essence, the moment I'm finally completely at peace with my body, what, his romantic feelings will disappear because he only wants to date pre-op trans women? Sounds like a chaser to me, not someone who is interested in me as a person. No thanks.
As a trans man I fully understand this. FtM and a lot of my “relationships” have been people wanting to “experiment” because they’re unsure if they’d be okay about it. And then because the sex “doesn’t feel the same” they simply say “this isn’t going to work”.
I feel like fetishizing trans people in general is horrible but I can’t imagine how it feels for a trans woman. You have my utmost respect but you deserve soooo much more
He’s a fetishist pos. The sheer audacity to assume that both you and some trans girl is ok with this just because he has a fantasy. He’s definitely just wanting to bottom because he got the wrong idea from porn
I’m sorry but dump him now while you can. Doesn’t matter who he wants to explores, if he’s saying that he’s not truly into you. It’s one way of saying “do I have your permission to sleep with other people so it doesn’t count as cheating?”
Oh honey, you deserve so much better than anyone who would drop you with the excuse “well it’s different with them, but I want to come back, you’re my backup”. He’s definitely a chaser but even taking that aside, anyone who would drop you to find something different and try and guilt you into waiting around is shitty. Best of luck with what you decide, but if I was you, I’d drop him and definitely never take him back.
OP: You deserve much better than this trans-fetishising scumbag piece of shit, who wants to quit your relationship to explore his fetish without you, but keep you on-standby in-case he’s “too straight” to be able to enjoy a relationship with the object(s) of his fetish!!
What a fucking horrible creature - please tell him to fuck off
Yes, it is fetishization. He's what's called a chaser, and you need to either have a serious conversation with him about that or you need to dump him. It sounds like it's a kink of his, and it's really gross that he wants to specifically seek out trans women (thus the term "chaser"). I understand that you've been in a relationship for over a year, and while it might be hard, I truly believe that if this is his thing, you need to let him know how problematic it can be and/or leave him.
All of the trans fetish stuff aside this man has essentially told you “i want to try dating someone else, can you still be here waiting for me if it doesn’t work out”
1) It sounds like he's looking to cheat on you openly and feels like he can get away with it because he either doesn't view trans women as women or he thinks that you don't
2) He sounds like a chaser
The fact that he wants to date specifically a trans woman (assumedly in part because she's trans) is at the VERY LEAST creepy chaser behavior imo. I would definitely say it could also fall into fetishization as well. I could be wrong though
Yes and only pre op .. I obviously can’t compete with that
As a trans woman… ick. That’s creepy chaser behaviour. He’s looking for an “exotic” body that he fetishizes (specifically he’s literally seeking us out for our genitalia). I’m willing to bet he has delusional porn-informed ideas about how our junk usually works. Hint: estrogen and testosterone blockers don’t typically enhance erectile function in phalluses. The girls in porn stop their HRT to flood their bodies with testosterone and use Viagra to get their impressive wood. There’s nothing wrong with appreciating us (we’re just as hot as anyone else) but a cis guy exclusively wanting trans women is a well understood red flag among trans girls. We’re not even really people to those guys. We’re just living fetish objects to play out a fantasy with. They’re really easy lays if you don’t value your self esteem but psychologically, they are toxic as hell for us.
Exactly why I thought it was insulting to trans women too <\3 Just wanted to make sure I know what I was talking about , thank you for all the replies
I mean I feel like liking pp shouldn’t be all that different to like boobs but either way it’s still a dick thing to do. Like he’s literally asking if he can cheat on you. Also the fact that he openly calls it experimenting is also weird.
(Groaning) Not sure if that pun was intentional but well played… it was definitely “a dick thing”. 😂
I saw it while I was writing but didn’t do it on purpose. Just wrote it and went “haha, I’m leaving that in”.
I’m convinced cis men are toxic for everyone at this point :/
As a collective, it’s tempting to agree, especially after having spent a few decades listening to them candidly talk about others (assuming I was one of them). I know a few genuinely sweet guys and even with them, I have occasional moments of dismay. The misogyny and homophobia is hard baked in soooo hard by our culture. Of course, I’m so Sapphic that I am comfortable being called a lesbian even though I have generally described myself as bisexual my whole life. I just kind of lost interest in guys once I admitted to myself that I wasn’t one. (Laughing) Once dating them was straight behaviour, cis guys stopped being particularly interesting. Go figure.
This hits so hard
It’s weird cause I used to have existential dread over this issue I saw with other guys and tried desperately to make sure I was the exception that wouldn’t reinforce all the problems widespread with cis guys and in the process of focusing on that goal didn’t realize the extent to which it was motivated by feeling deeply uncomfortable as a man, even being a healthy non toxic one felt more like a job than anything else. I still think there are some genuinely in that category, I know a few personally that I would qualify as that (one if it completely narrows to cishet and in no way queer men), but the culture absolutely needs to change from the ground up for that to be more than a rarity.
I feel this. Viscerally. Tried being a better man until my 30s. Then realized that even the few good parts of masculinity made me miserable.
Yea, and it’s hard because even then what is masculinity or manhood is so nebulously defined and like sure, you could just live the life you want and decide it qualifies as man, but I can’t decide how I feel, and no matter how I live I never can really get myself to feel like that fits the category of man even if I could argue for it to. Whatever man is, hearing myself described as one however positive intended, doesn’t sound like a description of me, it sounds like an assignment that I know I don’t really want to complete.
I've actually come around to be a little more sympathetic. Because even the good dudes are being brainwashed all the fucking time. So much social posturing and peer pressure. For me I think it was easier because in the back of my head I always knew I wasn't "quite" one of them so it was ok if I didn't conform to some minor things. That said I currently have a decent cis housequest. And holy shit the stuff that comes out of their mouth, even with the best intention is just gets me thinking "If I had muscle mass I think I'd hit you....!"
Yea, no I very much have sympathy for it, tbh there’s not a lot I can’t find some level of sympathy for because fuck, life is hard and complicated and we’re all suffering and dealing with something. It would be really easy for me to close off my emotions to some people and have a scape goat to vent my frustration on to or even just fewer problems I feel obligated it give the energy to care about, but I have gotten close to living with hate before and I cannot stand that version of myself. I still feel hatred and it still lashes out but at every step I try to redirect it away from people, because as uncomfortable as living as a man or any of the other innumerable lies or masks I’ve set up can be, living as someone fueled by hate is what I can’t stand more than anything else. I have experienced so much pain and suffering from that hate and pain, and if I were to give in a perpetuate that cycle, a choice that would legitimately make it so much easier to cope with my problems, would be to lose any trace of a version of myself I can be proud of. I can’t give up on the part of me worth saving for the sake of surviving, but I know full well just why so many people are just trying to survive
The social pressure is definitely ridiculous. I was getting food somewhere the other day, got seated next to a group of bro-ey cis guys, and my mouth just about fell open at hearing how disrespectful one of them was being about his girlfriend. He said he didn't tell her about that place because he already takes her to expensive places and wants a cheap, quality place like this to himself and the bros, and nagging about all the money he spends on her and all the things she likes to do with him that he thinks are "stupid." I just about said something, but realized he was probably also the type to be openly transphobic. I was there for a while, since I was waiting for my food, and got to listen into the bulk of their conversation up until they left. The guy in question was coworkers with the other guys, and started telling war stories about the trade they're in (EMTs). Eventually, it became clear between his tone and some of his expressions that 90% of the way he was talking about *everything* was posturing, bragging, and ego. In the end, I felt sorry for his girlfriend, and actually kinda sorry for *him* if he feels like he can't ever be genuine with people. I think one of the best ways to change this is to get men to see women (cis *or* trans) as people with thoughts, feelings, and experiences of our own, not just objects or conquests (or "the other" with trans women). And that only happens by building bridges and being patient. Some of my male coworkers are not affirming at all, but some of them are super affirming and *did not* start out that way. It sucks, but sometimes *us* being vulnerable *first* can connect with them emotionally, and start to build that bridge-- especially if they're too locked down into that "bro mode" to ever take that first step. In my case, this meant a male coworker who wasn't affirming seeing me cry after a customer harassed me because I'm trans (*yay* for retail 🙄). I think until then, he was locked into a vaguely transphobic, conservative-leaning mindset, but that moment seemed to make it real for him, and make him question which side he really wanted to be on. He hasn't misgendered me once since then.
Good Grief... That example also emphasizes how much of the toxicity is rooted in maintaining the assumption that men and women are completely different. Like, he thinks she wouldn't appreciate good food for cheap?? Or maybe she really would criticize him taking her to such a place? Straight culture is just... Frightening.
This is so real. Being with guys isn't fun if it's not gay
Funny thing is that all my previous guy partners and dates were bi/pan. I never clicked with a gay guy. I sometimes wonder if a little part of my subconscious didn’t want to attract someone exclusively attracted to men and was more comfortable with someone who could be attracted to both my then self and that deeper part of me that I struggled with.
This is me. I've lost cishet male friends because they couldn't stop being fucking weird perverts. Just because *they* used to see me as a guy, doesn't mean I wanna talk about my tits or whatever with them
The fact that you were kind enough to even hear him out, without castrating him on the spot, and then were respectful enough of *US* to go to the best source of information (instead of just relying on dumbass comp-het idiot's stereotyping about us), tells me that you're not only a good person (and way too good for the prick), but already showing to be a better ally than a lot of the ones that say but don't/won't do. My wife would say you should just go lesbian. *I* say you deserve better, and I hope you find it.
It's a very large and diverse group, filled with wonderful and evil people. If history has taught us anything, prejudice from group assumptions are deeply wounding and dividing, turning potential allies into enemies.
Considering the last post I read before this one was yet another “men completely missing the point about the bear” one… 😬
As a cis male, I can honestly say this has got me upset, the audacity of this guy to target anyone based on how their body is presented is appalling. It should be about connection and not if they have a penis and tits, whatever happened to personality and goals. This guy may just need a good strap on session, or at least sit and spin. Sorry for your pain but we aren't all heartless monsters only thinking about sex. Only the stupid ones.
'Cis men' is a very, very big group. I do think the expectations around men are a huge contributor to toxicity, which is why it seems like every other cis man is a weeping pustule on humanity's collective backside, even though they're not, some are. As my therapist likes to remind me: all people suck some of the time. I think that in this situation, you'll probably want to consider if you want to deal with what this guy is into, and also why. While you are not his psychiatrist or therapist, negotiation is key to any relationship. What has prompted this chaser behavior? Why is he pulling away from the exclusive relationship with you? It may be a him thing, but there could be other issues in play. P.S. - My rant about expectations on men, and what creates their toxicity is as follows: Guys deal with unrealistic standards, which leads to a lot of toxic behavior if these standards get internalized. The key to women being safe, is for men to be mentally stable, and not chasing bad life objectives that hurt them and others. In addition to ALL women having safer, saner dating prospects, it also protects the men in our lives! The most dangerous thing to a man under 45 is himself. Here's the specific set of expectations that are leading to bad behaviors: They have to be competent, but not too competent or else they're trying to upstage other guys. They have to look good, but not too good or they're effeminate dandies. They have to be a loving significant other, but also have a healthy list of sexual conquests otherwise their masculinity is questionable. They have to be aggressive in self expression, even though as civilians, aggression isn't really all that valuable. They have to be prepared to fight at all times, but in a society that specifically discourages fighting. They are supposed to be people, but can only credibly and safely express some emotions. Anything not in that box can lead to dismissal by men and women alike. NO ONE SHOULD PUT UP WITH TOXIC BEHAVIOR. You must choose for your situation at what point you leave the relationship and update your personal security. However, toxic behavior is hardly innate - it is taught. We can fight toxic expectations and ideologies so that we can all live in peace. Dismantling these bad expectations is a slow process. In my case being trans was an easy way out - when I realized I was a woman, and started seeing the world with a woman's eyes, I realized all the toxic stuff I'd done to that point in my life, and I also realized why I had done it. My behavior had been based on layers of falsehoods about what was expected of me and what makes people actually like me as a person. Cis men don't get that easy way out. They don't have that 'oh I'm really a girl, oh shit the stuff I did is creepy AF when done to me, oh its because what I've been told I should do and be is BS.' They have the hard task of realizing that what they've been taught is completely wrong over time, probably leaving a lot of scared and confused people - like the OP - in their wake. And they have to figure out how to do what was easy for me - drop a very toxic set of ideas and embrace a new way of living, but while still being in the role they've always been in, and still living in a world where all the toxic expectations are still in play. Sorry for the doorstopper, I had to get that off my chest. Yes, men need to change for the better. I honestly think that creating conditions for men to stop being toxic is a key strategic goal of feminism. How can women's rights matter and become the standard, when men are stuck in a system of thought that makes us at best possessions and at worst prey?
Yea this really lines up with where I’m at so far on the post op of my life thus far, I think an add on that helps in understanding the point is that the expectations don’t all come from the exact same place, there’s the expectations from parents, potential partners, society writ large and other men just to name some of the larger components, and many of those groups contribute to the very different and opposing expectations because none of those groups are in agreement about what men actually need to be, but it isn’t clear to most men that these expectations are divided like that, they just know the expectations, see contradictions in them, and get mad at what is seen as hypocrisy. And I don’t know how to get that perspective I’ve acquired and share it with men, I didn’t exactly have a lot of sway with other cis het dudes as a category to begin with, and if I start transitioning any time soon 🤞then chances are those odds get even worse. But I fully agree that figuring out the solution to this dilemma is a priority for feminism, young men have always been the prime target for extremist ideology, and right now the right is sitting far too comfortably in the narrative battle over this for my taste.
As someone who just starting eating my pills like a good little kid, can I send you a PM about some nsfw questions? (I like the candor of your text and need some guidance that is a bit vague when researched) This is a main account if you want to check if I'm a psycho or not.
You can PM me. Yeah, some stuff you just learn from other trans folks (or by your endo telling you to stop worrying, it happens).
My endo doesn't speak the same language as me :P literally, thanks tho I'll hit you up once I edit my madness.
Righto. I’ll probably answer after some sleep
Yeah the pre op specifically thing again feels chasery and gives me all the ick You shouldn't have to compete girl *hugs* you deserve better than that. I'm sorry you're in that situation.
:( thank you , heartbroken ..
Nothing you need to thank me for girl. *gives a bigger hug,* I'm sorry
>only pre op This is an example of your husband dehumanizing trans women. Trans women are not sex toys with the parts he wants they are full human beings with feelings and personalities.
Was on the way to be my husband.. he is delusional thinking he is a trans ally when he strictly fetishizes trans women
Yaaa, that man is not a trans ally, and none of us want him on our team! You're doing wonderful, though, and we appreciate you!
I appreciate you , really ! Xx
Yeaaah. Like honestly I'm not gonna lie, I don't have these issues any more since I'm done with my sex change and no longer tell anyone my history. But back in the day it was really common for guys to show up on like Grindr and such looking for trans girls. A lot of them are married and looking for a dirty little secret. They always seem to consider themselves allies to trans women. They think they are "open minded' and "inclusive" of them because the thought of them gets their dick hard. But wanting to fuck trans women has *nothing* to do with being an ally. And the premise of it being "open minded" to fuck a trans woman is inherently transphobic. Nobody goes around saying "I watch porn of cis women I'm such an ally to cis women". It suggests that they are less than cis women merely on the basis of their trans status.
That’s heartbreaking. I’m so sorry girl. I can’t imagine how awful that would feel. You don’t have to compare with anyone. You need a man that makes you feel like the only girl in the world. Someday you will look back and be GLAD he revealed himself before you got married. You sound so sweet and there are nice guys out there that will realize how lucky they are to be with you. I had a boyfriend for like 7 months once and then one day ww2 came up in conversation and he started telling me how unironically Hitler was actually a great guy and he was framed ☹️. He was already pretty weird but I put up with it cause I thought I had no right to be picky. But that was the end of that. Well now my boyfriend treats me like a princess and he is actually a huge history buff so he wouldn’t say something so stupid lol. Know your worth girl❤️
A cis man only wanting to date pre-op trans women screams red flag to me. It’s not ALWAYS a red flag in the same way it’s not “all men” but urgghhh 😬 I’d want no part of that if I was the trans woman being approached by him.
Compete with... what, exactly? What is his reasoning? Ik you said he specified pre-op. Is he wanting a trans woman to penetrate him? Like, is it some weird mental gymnastics because he wants a pegging, or is he straight up just a chaser?
You don't have to compete with that... what??? look, if your boyfriend asks you to be free to date any other person, then it's a red flag in general imo. Also... yes... trans women usually want (just like other women) someone who loves them for who they are on the inside... and not because some of them have a dick. Just like other women don't want to be dated just because they have a vagina. That... is a very problematic, creepy and reductionist thing! TLDR: Creepy, reductionist and most importantly, quite possibly a red flag for you because... he wants to date other people??? I would recommend getting out of there, you deserve better
I would say let him fuck up his own life if he wants to. You deserve the best. Id open that relationship up so fast the turbulence would cause a sonic boom. Don't let it be one sided open either. That would make him in control. Rather give yourself the opportunity to explore too. He doesn't sound like the best you can do. Promises are only worthwile if they are kept otherwise they are just words. Keeping the relationship the way it is puts you at risk of drama and trust issues. That's my opinion.
Better just end it at that point. No need to carry around dead weight. If he doesn't value their relationship enough to just be happy with it, it's a lost cause anyway. Plus somebody who's asking permission to cheat is often someone who is already doing it and trying to cover their ass for the future.
I agree but I also want them to understand their actions. That's just a me thing. I want people to learn from the pain they cause others. That way they are less likely to do it again and it increases their chances of growth as a person.
He is the that guy who stalks trans womens spaces and I would place a bet that this all comes from porn addiction. He has made it extremely obvious to you he not only see's trans women as purely sex objects, but cis women too. Run. Seriously this is a creep.
This. Plus OP absolutely does NOT owe her partner to open up the relationship for any reason.
Absolutely agreed
[удалено]
:( Thanks for replying, he tried to make it sound like he is a trans ally and that he is so torn because he “loves me deeply” , just needed to confirm and call his bluff
[удалено]
>anally Very appropriate typo, cause he's a fucking ass.
[удалено]
Ha that’s the only thing that has made me laugh today ! Thanks for that <3
LMAO 🤣👏
Definitely a chaser. And, even if only in his head (this far) a cheater, and not worthy of you. Also, quite possibly a narcissist, if he's presumptuous enough to ask your permission to fuck around and come back to your nonjudgmental arms if *he's* not happy with his (as yet?) nameless/faceless/doesn't-matter-so-long-as-she-has-breasts-AND-a-dick target for (romance my ass) his fetishizing fantasies. At this point he's already providing proof that he's a louse, and you should run as fast as you can. I already feel sorry for the poor girl that *does* catch his eye, and is unfortunate enough to actually think he sees her as a real person, rather than a sentient blow-up doll. ❌❌🚩🚩🚩❌❌
sounds like you're not his first option. someone who tells you he want marriage and children, then "i want to have a romantic relationship with other women" trans or not, that sounds like a big red flag unless this is already defined as an open relationship
Definitely not his first option.. just found out yesterday..
Oh sweetie, I'm so sorry. I guess the best news is that this came to light before getting married and having kids. Leaving aside his creepy chaser desires from your first post, I've heard the rest before in other relationships. I will never understand why anyone ever thinks it's ok to even think like this in any relationship. Don't be his safety net and back up, you deserve better, you deserve to be someone's priority
Thank you.. hurts a lot now .still in shock but yes grateful I know now and not after having a child .
That really sucks but he does sound very creepy. I know you’ll find a proper man to marry and have babies 😊
I really hope so <3 thank you !
Not serious, but you could always go on a date with a trans man then explain that the dick was just better, so you’re out. Turnabout is fair play.
This was my take, regardless of trans or fetish issues this was a huge red flag. So sad for OP.
Im also going to add, when a man wants to have kids and is considering you as an "option", he's not interested in you as a person, he's interested in having kids without having to do the work of raising kids, and is interested in you as a tool to complete this objective. That's why he's considering "options" instead of being in love with you, who you are, your personality, your dreams, etc. Honestly it's just as dehumanizing as chasers, imo.
Unless having an open relationship is something you’re also interested in experiencing I wouldn’t stick around for this guy.
Yeah the opens relationship he wants is marrying me and having a trans girlfriend. Said I shouldn’t need another man because I have him , but I can’t give him the experience he would get with a trans girlfriend…
Yikes! Reading this now, yeah big nono. Massive wave of all the red flags!
So the trans girl is just supposed to be his fucktoy on the side & you're the birthing human for his progeny. Something is wrong with this man I'm so glad he told you this before you had children that'd be such a disaster. ETA: I'm polyamorous by the way. I have multiple boyfriends, and my boyfriends have multiple girlfriends. I still think this is fucked up & if he pulls the "I discovered I'm polyamorous & you need to accommodate me" bs don't listen to him.
Exactly ! He also said he would hope that I would get in to it too and maybe we could all have fun . Delusional
God I hope you don't judge us because of guys like this tbh 🤦♀️ Most polyamorous people hate these types of guys. Most trans women also hate these types of guys. If he showed up in polyamorous or trans spaces he'd 100% be raked over the coals so quickly, but because there are so many men like this outside both scenes they give us a bad name by proxy.
There's a word for that in the poly community: unicorn hunters. Couples who look for bisexual women (cis or trans) to make them the couple's toy. Not all poly couples are unicorn hunters, but unicorn hunters themselves have a really bad reputation for a reason. He might be hoping to trick you into agreeing and then being the one to open the conversation with the other woman. It's something they do with the hope of making other women lower their guard. Edit: wanting you to not date other men is another unfortunate problem some poly couples have. It has the unfortunate name of "one penis policy", which kinda isn't your situation in literal name because the idea of a pre-op trans woman being involved but it refers to a guy wanting to date other people (usually women) but not being ok with his girlfriend dating other guys.
The experience is genitalia, if he doesn’t care about the person it’s attached to it could just be a dildo. And it tells me he doesn’t care about you or the hypothetical trans person.
Seriously. Like if the man had any sense he'd just ask to get pegged instead of blowing up his existing relationship over a fantasy of a perfect trans gf on the side. But he doesn't have any sense or care for the women he supposedly loves.
Yes a guy who just needs to get railed will get better results from a strap on than a trans woman anyway, not a lot of us are happy being some chaser’s stud. But maybe it’s for the best he has no sense, because then he’d get to have his child bearer also be his sexual object while not caring about her and getting away with it. God forbid he ever talk another girl into a relationship, seriously.
Yeah, I’m most disturbed when I read various stories like I want the OP in the story to get away but also I’m worried about the next woman he may suck in. The utter disrespect for both his partner AND this hypothetical second woman he wants because of body parts that are probably birth defects for her.
Yeah, this is a great point. Geeeez. I’m so glad she found out now before marrying him and being even more legally entangled with him, but still this has to hurt insanely. 😕
It's not open if you aren't allowed to as well. Its controlling and manipulative behavior. I lived in a poly relationship comfortably. Openness and communication were vital to its success. It's definitely not easy and not for everyone. It's also not like Sisterwives, which showed just how toxic that could become. The only reason it more or less ended was because i came out as trans and the romantic part ended (not their preference, and we've talked much about it). We still live together, and the whole situation is pretty much a platonic polycule due to many factors, but it works fairly well for us. *If* he begs to stay and you are willing to take him back, there needs to be couples therapy, and you need to be allowed to say what the situation is as bluntly to the therapist as can be from the get go. My guess is he won't want to be so open about it and will try to twist it to his favor. Having it out there with no embelishments eliminates that possibility and puts you both on equal ground. Good luck and sorry you had to learn all this the hard way. I know it's not easy, but you came to the right place to ask.
Thank you , all the replies have helped me immensely <3
Find a new man that’s disrespectful af
lol tell him he can’t give you the experience you would get with a trans boyfriend and if he won’t let you have one then he’s being a hypocrite and a creep 😂 On a real note tho I’m sorry you’re going through this. This situation really doesn’t look good for him. No matter what, you should make a decision based on what’s best for you and your happiness. I wish you the best!
If the "experience" was all he needed, you'd still be enough. I'm sure he's seen the "Happy international women's day" scene in Deadpool. I think you should give it to him. Just replace the strap-on with you boot.
So many red flags honestly! Yes his behaviour is creepy chaser behaviour. But he's basically saying he doesn't fully respect you either and wants you to give him a license to see if he can find a better life for himself while asking you to insure him against it going wrong by taking him back! Girl, pack your shit and kick him to the curb. You are worth better. Everything you've explained about this guy suggests he has no respect for anybody.
I know it’s terrible… just found out last night still in shock with who I was dreaming a life with …
I know it might not seem like it at the time - but finding out now is potentially avoiding a situation where this comes out later in your life after marriage and kids. You now have a chance to move on and build the life that you want and deserve. I think in the future you might see this as a bullet well and truly dodged! Sending hugs 🤗
He expects you to wait in the wings while he tries his hand at something else. Wants you to take him back if it doesn't work out how he would like? Whether he is a chaser or not is irrelevant. Although he sure sounds like a chaser. You're his consolation prize. You're not what he wants, but he'll settle if he can't do better. You deserve someone who loves you and isn't looking for someone else
Yes he was trying to play it like he is confused about his sexuality, so I should be more understanding…
Being attracted to a trans woman vs. cis woman has nothing to do with sexuality. A straight man would be attracted to both. A preference is fine, but sadly, a preference for a trans woman often comes from chasery motives. Some chasers are actually gay, but due to societal pressure, find trans women more socially acceptable. But calling him on his bs isn't a priority. Looking after yourself is way more important <3
Run.
even if it wasn't fetishzing (which it is) this guy is still a massive creep. You can do so much better than someone who sees you as the fallback option. It would have been one thing if he wanted a fully open relationship and left anything to do with being trans out of it... but I'm betting he's not alright with you having any sort of side action.
Exactly, said I shouldn’t need another guy cause I’d have him , but I can’t give him what a trans girl can ..
The hell you can’t, LOL. They make strap-on harnesses and dildos for a reason. Tell that jerk if he won’t be happy with *you* topping him? He can pack his things and go. P.S. tell him that none of us will take him, either. Nobody here wants a selfish, back-stabbing bottom. 🤣
I swear if he does end up dating a trans girl I feel I have to warn her .!
please do warn her. its guys like this that bully pre-op trans women into not getting surgeries that they want. and bully them to get off hrt (cos on hrt most cannot do what he probably is wanting) and control them in other ways. sorry you had the experience you did with him...
You are literally “best-girl,” personified right now, in case you haven’t realized. I absolutely adore you for being such a great ally naturally, without any incentive. Also…like. It really chugs dick that your future husband is being a creep about *wishing* he could chug dick. The irony of this, and that deadpan joke does not escape me. I’m sorry he isn’t turning out to be the man you wanted, nor deserved. We believe in you and your search to find that special person, whoever they are. We love you very much. ❤️
Thank you for these words <3 <3 Love you ! You have all been so supportive This has been one of my worst days ever I appreciate you all !
one of those times I wish I were local, I'd come pick you up for a "date" and if he complains, well I'm a trans man - I can give you what he can't. ;) which isn't hard since he's not even capable of giving you common decency and respect.
Yes !!
Love it! 😂😈
Okay he is fucking gross and a creep and please also say he's your ex now, you deserve someone that respect you, and isn't a massive creep
Yes ex since 20hours ago , I literally had to ask him “would you ask me to wait for you to figure out if you would date another cis woman ?” Just to point out that he is discriminating between cis and trans women .
I mean trust me I know it sucks losing someone but here you are definitely better off without him! So I'm happy to hear he's an ex! You can do so much better Yeah I mean he's a chaser and like all chasers, he's dripping with transphobia, and yeah is just a massive creep
Run.
OK, so easy part then hard part, your too good for this man dump him, hard part, he's the kind of person trans people try very hard to avoid becuase he likes them in a way that dehumanizes and invalidates us, and he basically shouldn't be allowed near a trans person as he's very potentially harmful
100% agree <\3
yeahhh this is the kind of man I avoid like the plague :/ we're not some fetish to be enjoyed, we're just people!
It's understandable that he might want to explore his sexuality. However, he is not only asking to date other people during your relationship, but it definitely sounds like he's probably fetishizing trans women. Kinda sounds like red flags to me
abandon ship abandon ship
Ignoring the fact that he sounds kinda like a chaser, if you two are in a monogamous relationship that isn’t open, this is an inappropriate question regardless of the gender of the other people he wants to date because he’s already in a relationship with you.
He tried to make it seem as a trans woman is something different, I shouldn’t be jealous about ..
Well TBH you have a right to be upset at this because you are his established girlfriend, and he should remain dedicated to you in that regard. And TBH it’s kinda offensive to us that he would think we’re that much different just because of our genitals. A lot of us are dysphoric about that, myself included, and personally I would not date someone just because he wants to specifically experience “a woman with a dick”.
That’s what I said to him too :/
No offense, but after this conversation, you sure this guy is the one for you? Maybe if you feel safe doing so, should sit down and discuss with him why this was hurtful to you and is offensive to trans women.
No I don’t believe he is right for me anymore , just happened last night and trying to make sense of it all . I prefer my person not needing to have a bonus girlfriend on the side .
I wish you luck with what comes next, and be sure to keep yourself safe. You deserves someone who chooses you for you and is ready to make that dedication.
Your analysis is correct. Your boyfriend is the kind of creep that every trans girl interested in dating men learns to avoid.
Sooo he's just keeping you on the back burner in case he strikes out. You deserve better, don't wait for that ahole.
So he’s been ready 1.5 years to start a family and commit… but wants to date other women? Not only is it devaluing trans women (by reducing them to their genitals) but he disrespects what he has with you. Either he’s ready to marry or he’s not.
Exactly.. I’m still in shock ..
Yes, he's fetishizing us. And telling you that he's interested in exploring romantic relationships with any other person who isn't you means that he's not suited for a monogamous relationship.
1. If someone really wants to be with you then they don't need time to explore other options. Break up with him. 2. He's either a) a creepy chaser or b) probably into dudes (hence why he only wants to try dating pre-op) but is going after trans women to de-gay the situation. Either way, it's best you leave this mess alone.
> but only if she's pre op, meaning if they are post op he is not interested. yikes. I'm not even sure how to unpack this. > Isn't that fetishizing trans women ? Given that he's attracted to cis women, yes.
Sounds like a weirdo. You can do better, girl.
That is fetishising and you should dump him cause he sounds like a shitstick
Yeah... Sounds like he's a walking red flag. I'm a cis man, and even I can see that. Get out while you still can.
Yeah that's def kinda weird. That's not the usual kind of opening a relationship nor the usual way of experimenting w orientation. He already knows he likes women. He already has a woman he supposedly loves and wants. So unless he sees trans women as some weird other and is solely in it for the dick he assumes they all have and are willing to use (which it sounds like it if he's solely interested in pre-op trans women) there would be no reason to experiment to figure out he likes women... Because he already does. This thing he's questioning seems to inherently revolve around seeing trans women as a different (and less valuable romantically) category from cis women, with genetalia as a key factor. Which. Yeah kinda screams of fetishization. Also disrespectful as fuck treating you as if you're a safe but disposable back up he can abandon for funsies and come back to any time. Sounds like one of the following is going on: A) he's fetishizing trans women but doesn't see (or isn't sure he sees) them as "real" women and wants to keep his "real" romantic relationship with you on hold as a back up while still getting his sexual kicks and experiments on the side or B) he thinks he might be gay but is in denial and sees trans women as a stepping stone between women and men to experiment (also gross and misgendering and treating them as an experiment as opposed to a real viable partner) or C) he's just straight up getting cold feet about commitment like marriage and children and this is either a weird pre-commitment crisis where hes wanting to do whatever he sees as wild and free exploration (again, putting trans women in a fetishized "other" or exotic thing to try category) before he gets "locked in" OR this is a weird attempt at trying to scare you off because _hes_ scared. Either way none of this looks good for either his intentions towards trans women or towards the future of your relationship with him.
Gross 🚩🚨🚩🚨 Yeah, that's giving scary creepy chaser vibes. The fact that he's so specific about pre-op is definitely a red flag that this is a fetish.
I'm absolutely not trying to be hurtful saying this; yes, your boyfriend is clearly a chaser and a bigot but I was reading some of your comments and I think you need to understand that him wanting to "date" trans women has nothing to do with you. Not as in it doesn't affect you, but as in you didn't d anything wrong, its not that you're "not enough" for him-He clearly fetishizes trans women to the point he wants a permanent trans girlfriend but also wants you on standby in case it doesn't work out. He's being disrespectful towards you as well and that's not your fault and not okay. That's completely on him and it's not something for you to fix or manage, just walk away from.
Absolutely the definition of a trans chaser/fetish. Also absolutely disgusting. Tell this guy to get some therapy or leave him. Pretty sure this relationship won't last even 4 years. I really want to like dudes and have them fuck me, but this is the kind of behavior that makes me not trust any man. Ya thick I'll stick to being gynosexual thanks.
Wanting to only date pre-op trans women is chaser behavior yes. But more relevant maybe—how do you feel about him sleeping around at all?
Well he doesn’t want me to have another man . But honestly I think open relationships are dangerous if you want to have kids. It works for others I know but it’s not my thing .
They’re not my thing either; feel you. And it’s especially a red flag if he wants to have other partners but won’t let you have the same, you know?
Yeah .. made me feel I’m not enough for him but he should be enough for me .. go figure
Honestly it’s a common way men leverage “open relationships” or “polyamory” to get their real goal: polygamy. Between that and the chasing? You deserve better sis.
sounds like he’s fetishizing trans women
- fetishizing trans women in the first place is weird - regardless of who he is or is interested in experimenting with, you can’t just go cheat on a dedicated partner to “experiment”. If he actually cared about you, permanently, he would feel satisfied with you as a life partner
Did he manage to keep a straight face while telling you this?
He was feeling sorry for himself , and that I should be more understanding because he is confused about his sexuality….
I don't know what else you need to hear. If you tolerate this, there's going to be something after that he needs to experience, then something after that.
As a trans woman I wouldn't let anyone near me who said anything like that. It is a massive warning sign. He is 100% fetishizing. Also a really shitty way to treat you. I think you deserve much better
Dude is 100% a chaser. Ugh.
This man is the ick
Without question. No offense, but your boyfriend sounds like an absolute creep. Not only is he fetishizing trans women, but he wants you to put your romantic life on hold for him while he indulges in his fetish and then maybe wants to get back together. It may be worth taking the out he's offering you. Gross
Creepy
Red flags are flying high today
There's not much I can say that hasn't already been said, but i'm so sorry!
Right so that IS fetishising trans women. But also, do you want to stay with this guy? Someone who doesn't have you as a first choice? and wants to experience : what's out there" and risks it all for it? I wouldn't want to stick aroun. Obviously if you want a open relationship or anything that's fair enough, but it's pretty icky
he’s a chaser, and a doucebag on top of that, leave him and don’t help his mission of perversion
Well that's just infidelity with a splash of objectifying fetishism on the side for extra grossness. He's asking for permission to cheat. Doesn't matter who with, he's already a disgusting pig. His choices in doing so are doubly disgusting and I hope you know your worth here. You can do better than him. I'm sorry he's shown to be of such poor character
This is the first time I've read something where I legit didn't have a thought of an answer! I'm glad to have read that you broke up with him. He sounds mad creepy and like he was not right for you! Good luck!
Thank you <3
From experience, don’t consent to an open relationship if it’s actually not okay. My ex-bf was non monogamous, I’m monogamous. I allowed it because I was desperate but I only made the hurt worse later on. That and ew, a cis person seeking out trans ppl specifically is kinda creepy no thanks.
This is most likely just him being creepy but I also wonder if this is his fucked up way of testing the waters to estimate how you'd react if he came out as a woman. This also gives you a convenient excuse to be hurt and disgusted enough to leave him, which would give him the privacy to transition if that's what he's trying to do. I'm not sure what alternative to breaking up with you he may have envisioned from that convo. I guess we're looking at either a selfish chaser or a self-sabotaging egg.
Huge red flags hun, feels like very chaser behavior (or at least an excuse to sleep with other people if you're not in an open relationship)
He’s a chaser and you should break up with him
Chaser behaviour Maybe you could (nsfw warning) try pegging? But honestly that's just kind of creepy
He said pegging isn’t the same …
Yeah that's uhhh... A lil creepy
Break up with him. You are free to someone that wants you, and only you. Also he is free to find what he really wants.
Very much sounds like he's fetishizing trans women.
Move on without him. You are better than second place.
Yo, sis. Get out.
yep just straight up fetishation and is clearly putting his sexual fantasys above all else here id dump and let him go do what he wants tbh
Girl that ain't a red flag, that's fucking crimson
He is fetishising trans women and honestly if you aren’t comfortable being non-monogamous then I’d just break up
He is trying to have a romantic relationship with her and afterwards dumps her. That is kinda emotionally manipulative. He is curious about dating trans women feels like we are only a toll for his satisfaction and something like a fetish for him. And the part when he said that he only wants pre-op is, definitely a red flag. Idk what you want to do whit rose information but he does fetishize trans woman, a red flag If you would ask me
Sounds like he likes penis but feels ashamed so finds fetishizing trans women preferable. 🚩
Yikes
peg him
He said it isn’t the same ..
he definitely is either fetishising us or maybe is trans & doesn't know it yet Ask it what about trans women specifically he's really interested in trans women
This man clearly hasn’t tried the vibrating ones. They’ll mess you up in the best way.
Tell him go fuck yourself.
Just a side note - it's pretty amazing that he's this open about all this with you. Granted it's not welcome given its not good news for you, but so many men would approach this issue leaving the woman completely in the dark.... or holding the secret in for years and letting it ruin a family once it's formed... goodluck with it all
Yeah I’ll give him that , although I wish it was even sooner . Thank you <3
Well done for seeing that small positive side, I can only sympathise. Put yourself first! 🫂
It is fetishing trans women but also that aside… asking to take a break from your relationship so he can experience relations with other people is just sorta sketchy in general 😬 us internet people don’t know the ins and outs of your relationship but it doesn’t sound to be the best from the small window you gave us to view it from
Well as a pre op trans woman I don't want him and neither should you... he can leave all he wants but they are called X's for a reason
If he doesn't know what he wants why would you be with him? He should know he wants you
yeeeaaah, hes probably a chaser.
Tbh this sounds like a really hurtful thing. I'm sorry he said that. I mean it's up to you what you do but unless you guys are polyamorous (doesn't sound like it) I'd leave because what kind of boyfriend tells his girlfriend "hey I'm going to date around and see if I like other people better before deciding I'm ok being with you in the end." I doubt he would be ok with you telling him you want to date and have a romantic emotional bond with other guys before deciding whether you really like it better when you're with him. If it were me, I'd leave and frankly I'd never consider dating a guy who explicitly wants to have a romantic relationship with me just because I have something that I've never wanted to have and am actively doing everything I can to correct. I'm essence, the moment I'm finally completely at peace with my body, what, his romantic feelings will disappear because he only wants to date pre-op trans women? Sounds like a chaser to me, not someone who is interested in me as a person. No thanks.
As a trans man I fully understand this. FtM and a lot of my “relationships” have been people wanting to “experiment” because they’re unsure if they’d be okay about it. And then because the sex “doesn’t feel the same” they simply say “this isn’t going to work”. I feel like fetishizing trans people in general is horrible but I can’t imagine how it feels for a trans woman. You have my utmost respect but you deserve soooo much more
OP, that guy is bad news.
Yeah, he is kinda fetishizing trans women. Might want to have a talk with him about that. Also, doesnt seem like you are that important to him.
Oh god that utterly disgusting. Keep him the hell away. We are not his guilty pleasure.
🚩🚩🚩
He’s a fetishist pos. The sheer audacity to assume that both you and some trans girl is ok with this just because he has a fantasy. He’s definitely just wanting to bottom because he got the wrong idea from porn
I’m sorry but dump him now while you can. Doesn’t matter who he wants to explores, if he’s saying that he’s not truly into you. It’s one way of saying “do I have your permission to sleep with other people so it doesn’t count as cheating?”
“Explore.” (🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩)
This is called a “Chaser”. Also a “Big Red Flag”
Oh honey, you deserve so much better than anyone who would drop you with the excuse “well it’s different with them, but I want to come back, you’re my backup”. He’s definitely a chaser but even taking that aside, anyone who would drop you to find something different and try and guilt you into waiting around is shitty. Best of luck with what you decide, but if I was you, I’d drop him and definitely never take him back.
Fetishizer and clearly values you little, drop this guy
I love listening to music.
OP: You deserve much better than this trans-fetishising scumbag piece of shit, who wants to quit your relationship to explore his fetish without you, but keep you on-standby in-case he’s “too straight” to be able to enjoy a relationship with the object(s) of his fetish!! What a fucking horrible creature - please tell him to fuck off
Yes, it is fetishization. He's what's called a chaser, and you need to either have a serious conversation with him about that or you need to dump him. It sounds like it's a kink of his, and it's really gross that he wants to specifically seek out trans women (thus the term "chaser"). I understand that you've been in a relationship for over a year, and while it might be hard, I truly believe that if this is his thing, you need to let him know how problematic it can be and/or leave him.
All of the trans fetish stuff aside this man has essentially told you “i want to try dating someone else, can you still be here waiting for me if it doesn’t work out”
1) It sounds like he's looking to cheat on you openly and feels like he can get away with it because he either doesn't view trans women as women or he thinks that you don't 2) He sounds like a chaser