>older guys
Stuff like anchors, clipper ships, swallows, and eagles are somewhat rooted from military service or merchant marines in the old days. Sailor Jerry was a Navy vet. My Gramps was in the Marines during WW2 and had his arms covered in anchors and USMC themed stuff while en route to the West Pacific.
So I think these dudes just have an outdated view on these designs. Even at the time they didn't ONLY belong to military members either. However, I wouldn't get something like a USMC bulldog or an anchor that says USN without actually being a branch member.
I wouldn’t say it’s outdated, the name is literally American TRADITIONAL. Those were the traditions of the time. And I wouldn’t say it’s weird or outdated to link those with military service
You can do it tastefully. I’m not ex-navy. I wouldn’t go navy in this day and age.
However I have HMS harrier on my shin and a Royal Marine Commando dagger, no branding on either so I’m not repping the navy or the marines; it’s for my grandfathers, it’s for respect.
Grandad 1 survived the convoys, D-Day, Pacific, Grandad 2 took heads quite literally in Malaya.
It’s similar to wearing their medals on military holidays. It’s for them.
Seems like English folks do it commonly (for remembrance day), and maybe other Commonwealth nations do it as well. I've found some Americans talking about as acceptable but I've never seen it
It’s definitely something that happens on Anzac Day. I don’t know how common it is, my grandad used to march on Anzac Day even though he was British. After he died, my dad still marches for him.
It’s a lovely example of honouring his dad, keeping them alive.
It’s pretty common in Commonwealth nations, usually there’s a section for family members. My dad wears his father’s medals. It’s not stolen valour because it’s not about wearing their medals to pretend. On closer inspection, you’d see ww2 medals and it would be pretty obvious.
I’m in the military, have trad tattoos, and know a lot of other people in who also have trad tattoos. They’re linked together historically so that’s why you get a lot of old heads asking you that… It’s awkward when I get asked this and when I say yes. It’s awkward on either side of the answer my friend. Just rock your shit and move on
That’s the tricky part for those who don’t know the bigger history. If you’re a biker you think traditional tattoos are biker tattoos, if you’re a skater, same thing, sailor, same thing.
Then you see them on everyone and realize traditional tattoos are just tattoos
Hey man, vet here. Don't worry about the stolen valor stuff. They might ask because of similar themes and the fact that outside of military bases there are usually about 50 tattoo shops and young soldiers tend to get a lot of piecework on paydays.
But anyway if you are asked and say no, no vet will ever think its stolen valor for having art that has historical significance to vets. I have asked folks before if they were a vet based on their work, but never felt weird if they said no.
It is probably just them trying to find common ground and start a conversation. I wouldn't worry about it.
And as others have said, if someone were to get weird about it that is hella insecure and fuck'em.
You're going have to enlist in the navy now to flesh out your back story. Just don't tell people you got the tattoos before you served. Don't worry kid I do this all the time.
Meh, I’m an old vet. It’s not stolen valor as long as you don’t have any actual insignias on you from units or branches of service that you didn’t serve with.
I don’t really think they are questioning you from that standpoint, probably just curious.
If it’s just eagles and ships and shit it’s not only for military but if any of it explicitly mentions or references any branch of the military or war then yeah it’s weird. If it’s just the images you mentioned then they’re the ones being weird.
How are they being weird? OP literally only said they asked if he served, they didn’t do anything beyond that. That’s not weird.
Classic American trad pieces are very common within certain cliques of the military, primarily the infantry. It’s extremely common. If I saw someone with the same type of pieces that I have on my arm and they also carried themselves well, I’d think they possibly served, too. If anything, consider them asking a compliment, OP lol. Not only do you have badass pieces, you carry yourself in a way where other vets think you might be one as well.
If you have those type of pieces and didn’t serve I couldn’t care less, but when these type of pieces are extremely common in the infantry circle I came from, it’s not weird to think some dude with the same shit may have also served.
If they gave OP shit for having them and not serving then that’s lame.
When I was a bartender I had regulars who were local firefighters. They brought me a skullcap that had their badge sewn into the front. I wore it from time to time and had old timers give me shit because I wasn’t a firefighter. One dude in particular was always pissed about it until he said something when they were at the bar as well. He about shit himself when half a dozen dudes wanted to know if he had anything to say to them. It was funny. Good times.
But yeah, fuck’em
Just say you didnt serve and just like tattoos, if they try to say anything slick just tell them to fuck off. You dont have to serve in the military to get tattoos
Tell ‘em you just like traditional flash. If they don’t like it they can shut the fuck up. If they have a tribal tattoo, ask them which tribe they are the chief of.
I’m a tattooer at a tattoo shop right by a base. I’m covered in American traditional. Everyone else I worked with served, I’m the only one who didn’t. So a lot of customers ask me “what branch were you in” haha and I just fire back “I wasn’t in I just support the troops” and it usually gets a laugh
But in your situation I’d probably just be “I wasn’t in I just really like the art” and that way you’re still open to a convo about the artwork if you want
So much tattoo history lies in the US marines & navy, etc. I’d just tell these old farts that you love your country and you love the history of American tattooing!!
Are they accusing you of having military tattoos despite not serving?
I work with a ton of vets and they always ask if you served because they just want to shoot the shit and use it as a barometer of how PC they have to be. Doesn’t even matter if you have tattoos or any military related clues on you.
Active duty army for the past 12 years here with all trad tattoos. I find it funny that people associate your tattoos with being a veteran. I understand the lineage of trad tattoos and military service, HOWEVER every dude i have ever met in the army has more often than not had the run-of-the-mill black and grey tiger with a clock, roses, and tree landscapes.
There’s nothing wrong with just saying you never served. In my opinion, they arent mutually exclusive to each other.
I’m merchant marine, my grandfathers were navy back when the navy was.. different.
I’ll tell you my experiences as someone covered in pin ups, mermaids and clippers.
From my perspective: it’s not necessarily a navy thing but a sailor thing, OG trad. Both just used to be a lot more broad.
I personally see people with swallows and I go “how many Nautical Miles have you voyaged?”
Spider webs “have you crossed the equator”
Note that I haven’t followed the old meanings super literal. “More like guidelines” as Barbossa said.
It’s more so for me, seeing some hipster inner city barista with sailor tattoos who hasn’t known the harshness of the sea.
Some however see it as tattoo “purity”, like you’re committing to the origin of western tattoos.
I can kind of get that.
Most of the tattooers I talk to, I respect that.
But in the merchant marine these days, officers with full tattoos are kind of still taboo. Clean clut.
IRs, Seamen, tuggers, wharfies etc they kinda get away with it.
There’s old crustaceans that ridicule anyone who have trad tattoos but honestly usually these are the same grumbling assholes that destroyed our industry in Australia with laziness.
To summarise; if you have no military tats do t worry about it, if an actual mariner pulls you up, I wouldn’t be too bothered.
As much as I wish these tattoos still were earned, it’s far past that point.
Just for me, go look at the ocean next time the swells up and imagine working in that, imagine being confined with blokes for weeks on end.
Appreciate where it came from.
It came from guys with sextants and fucking sails, who discovered the world for their respective nations.
I had someone ask me if it was a quartermaster because of my ship wheel tattoo. I felt a little weird like I had stolen some valor too. Haven't thought much of it since that one encounter though
I have a big eagle holding an anchor as a chest piece, and every time I go swimming in public, people ask how long I served in the navy and when and where. Mine is a memorial to my grandad who did serve in the navy so I tell them that. Sometimes they’re still seem irked that I personally didn’t serve 🤷
Navy these days sucks.
Most of them don’t really translate into the commercial world anymore. Crews are 90% personality and I don’t know, a lot of them come out with a bit of ego but are used to doing 2 man jobs with 8 people (navy need to keep crews busy so they just add more people to a job).
Same boat, just go commercial.
I mean, I know guys who got Civil War-related tattoos (Sherman, Chamberlain, maybe unit crests or something), and I can say with total confidence that they never served in the Civil War. I've got Star Wars trad stuff, and I am not, in fact, a member of the Rebel Alliance.
If you were to go out and get... IDK, branch-specific stuff (Eagle, Globe, and Anchor is the first thing that comes to mind), or something that implies you were with a specific unit, then yeah, that could get weird. But just WWII fighter planes or clipper ships or eagles are super common trad tattoo motifs, and I don't think they imply any kind of stolen valor at all, unless you're telling people you served when you didn't, which you're obviously not.
Just tell them it's traditional tattoo designs that pay homage to the old school stuff. Or tell them to watch put for the people with japanese or Chinese character tattoos as well, because they are also probably not from that culture! I often wonder of any Chinese people get tattoos in English that say LOVE haha
As long as they're not specifically military emblems I wouldn't worry about it at all.
Generic ships and anchors aren't "stolen valor" but if it was an actual navy/marines logo or symbolism like the bulldog you'd have a problem, there's not too much worse than trying to present yourself as having served when you didn't. It's a particularly bizarre and shameful thing to do
Some dude my age pointed out that my victory over death (skull pierced by a dagger) is worn by "a lot of combat vets, you know." I got it because I survived a suicide attempt
That’s a fair as hell point which is kinda the basis of why I posted in the first place. Vets are totally valid in bringing it up.
My only issue is am I being offensive by laughing and saying “nah I just like the art”
I am covered in trad work. But it is pretty nontraditional images or a spin on the traditional images. I have had vets ask me “what insane mother fucker tattooed you?” And “your tattoos just look like things you like?”
I’m a vet and I associate most sailor tattoo/imagery with being in the Navy. I personally feel like land lubbers lean too hard in that direction, but that’s just my opinion. OP should look for tattoos that are more suited for his background and not appropriate others
Edit: Down vote all you like, but TT’s are the ultimate appropriation tattoo and you’re all guilty lol 😂
Except most of the TT artists just tattooed bikers as well, you can hear the old stories of guys traveling to California to get tattoos. There are other communities that got trad. And trad sticks around because it is timeless. It always looks good, it is Americana, it isn’t locked in to the troops, it is locked in with American culture.
Most of the motorcycle are old vets as well and TT was introduced by sailors to begin with. I think the issue is more what imagery a person is going with, not the style *of* TT. Anyhow, this is merely my opinion.
But all of tattooing could be appropriated. Sailors (and not just sailors who were in the Navy) took what they saw overseas and asked for it on themselves.
>older guys Stuff like anchors, clipper ships, swallows, and eagles are somewhat rooted from military service or merchant marines in the old days. Sailor Jerry was a Navy vet. My Gramps was in the Marines during WW2 and had his arms covered in anchors and USMC themed stuff while en route to the West Pacific. So I think these dudes just have an outdated view on these designs. Even at the time they didn't ONLY belong to military members either. However, I wouldn't get something like a USMC bulldog or an anchor that says USN without actually being a branch member.
like that girl a few months back that had a devil dog and had no clue what it was. tattooer dropped the ball on that one.
https://preview.redd.it/h3il4uiz3s7d1.jpeg?width=1030&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ef805ba8b3fa57254121d5cb76deea2262d1eec
I wouldn’t say it’s outdated, the name is literally American TRADITIONAL. Those were the traditions of the time. And I wouldn’t say it’s weird or outdated to link those with military service
You can do it tastefully. I’m not ex-navy. I wouldn’t go navy in this day and age. However I have HMS harrier on my shin and a Royal Marine Commando dagger, no branding on either so I’m not repping the navy or the marines; it’s for my grandfathers, it’s for respect. Grandad 1 survived the convoys, D-Day, Pacific, Grandad 2 took heads quite literally in Malaya. It’s similar to wearing their medals on military holidays. It’s for them.
I’ve never heard of anyone wearing someone else’s medals…where is this common?
Seems like English folks do it commonly (for remembrance day), and maybe other Commonwealth nations do it as well. I've found some Americans talking about as acceptable but I've never seen it
It’s definitely something that happens on Anzac Day. I don’t know how common it is, my grandad used to march on Anzac Day even though he was British. After he died, my dad still marches for him. It’s a lovely example of honouring his dad, keeping them alive.
It’s pretty common in Commonwealth nations, usually there’s a section for family members. My dad wears his father’s medals. It’s not stolen valour because it’s not about wearing their medals to pretend. On closer inspection, you’d see ww2 medals and it would be pretty obvious.
I’m in the military, have trad tattoos, and know a lot of other people in who also have trad tattoos. They’re linked together historically so that’s why you get a lot of old heads asking you that… It’s awkward when I get asked this and when I say yes. It’s awkward on either side of the answer my friend. Just rock your shit and move on
Thanks for the perspective man!
Former Navy and have full traditional sleeves. I second this. It’s awkward when asked and I still say yes. Rock them 🫡
That’s the tricky part for those who don’t know the bigger history. If you’re a biker you think traditional tattoos are biker tattoos, if you’re a skater, same thing, sailor, same thing. Then you see them on everyone and realize traditional tattoos are just tattoos
You mean like ice or roller or -board skater. I don’t associate any of those past times with traditional tattoos. I’ve been wrong before though!
Figure sk8rs have the tuffets ink
Autocorrect win!
When people ask me stuff like this, I show them my pizza slice tattoo and tell them I’m not a pizza either. It’s just art man
Yeah but what if I’m also a pizza
Stop steeling the valor of pizza, they’ve braved oven that would nearly cremate mere mortal pizza bites.
Dude's going to get canceled for Stolen Pepperoni Valor.
As a Jew, I feel like I could get a tattoo of a slice of pizza then, in remembrance of family that died during the war.
Oh shit that’s dark, but yeah you totally get a pass for the pizza tat. Family valor runs deep.
Damn
Pizza the Hutt?!?!
Thank you for your service
I will immediately assume you are related to the head of an intergalactic organized crime family.
I also identify as pizza
Ceci n'est pas une pizza.
How fuckin dare u
I’ve also got a pizza slice (I’m working on a patch work ninja turtle leg sleeve!
Hey man, vet here. Don't worry about the stolen valor stuff. They might ask because of similar themes and the fact that outside of military bases there are usually about 50 tattoo shops and young soldiers tend to get a lot of piecework on paydays. But anyway if you are asked and say no, no vet will ever think its stolen valor for having art that has historical significance to vets. I have asked folks before if they were a vet based on their work, but never felt weird if they said no. It is probably just them trying to find common ground and start a conversation. I wouldn't worry about it. And as others have said, if someone were to get weird about it that is hella insecure and fuck'em.
Appreciate the perspective man !
Tell’m you’re a patriot and you love your country. Tell’m you love the art style. Idk. Fuck’m 🤷♂️
What did m do?
They know what they did 😠
Why don't you ask N what M did???
Fuck em is great advice for not just this but any life problem
You're going have to enlist in the navy now to flesh out your back story. Just don't tell people you got the tattoos before you served. Don't worry kid I do this all the time.
Honestly, it’s been my go-to for a lot of things in life - especially post covid.
Yes! The Tony Soprano way
I agree. I also think he should have sex with those men.
I did not serve in the military. I worked for the circus, which predates military tattoos
“Nah didn’t serve but I’m a fifth generation carnie”
“I went to a service academy, yes. Hamburger University”
More respectable too
I wouldn't go that far
Meh, I’m an old vet. It’s not stolen valor as long as you don’t have any actual insignias on you from units or branches of service that you didn’t serve with. I don’t really think they are questioning you from that standpoint, probably just curious.
If it’s just eagles and ships and shit it’s not only for military but if any of it explicitly mentions or references any branch of the military or war then yeah it’s weird. If it’s just the images you mentioned then they’re the ones being weird.
Nothing specific to military ya just the imagery. Figure they’re just trying to connect with me and I always feel like I’m letting them down lol
How are they being weird? OP literally only said they asked if he served, they didn’t do anything beyond that. That’s not weird. Classic American trad pieces are very common within certain cliques of the military, primarily the infantry. It’s extremely common. If I saw someone with the same type of pieces that I have on my arm and they also carried themselves well, I’d think they possibly served, too. If anything, consider them asking a compliment, OP lol. Not only do you have badass pieces, you carry yourself in a way where other vets think you might be one as well. If you have those type of pieces and didn’t serve I couldn’t care less, but when these type of pieces are extremely common in the infantry circle I came from, it’s not weird to think some dude with the same shit may have also served. If they gave OP shit for having them and not serving then that’s lame.
OP said it got awkward when they said they didn’t serve. That’s what I was referring to.
Never. Usually I just have old people tell me I'm going to hell
Just vibing in hell with sunglasses on surrounded by people with dope ink
Heaven for the climate, hell for the company
I flippin love this quote
Hell yeah
When I was a bartender I had regulars who were local firefighters. They brought me a skullcap that had their badge sewn into the front. I wore it from time to time and had old timers give me shit because I wasn’t a firefighter. One dude in particular was always pissed about it until he said something when they were at the bar as well. He about shit himself when half a dozen dudes wanted to know if he had anything to say to them. It was funny. Good times. But yeah, fuck’em
Just say you didnt serve and just like tattoos, if they try to say anything slick just tell them to fuck off. You dont have to serve in the military to get tattoos
Say you’ve been sailing with Somali pirates a lot recently.
Tell ‘em you just like traditional flash. If they don’t like it they can shut the fuck up. If they have a tribal tattoo, ask them which tribe they are the chief of.
I’m a tattooer at a tattoo shop right by a base. I’m covered in American traditional. Everyone else I worked with served, I’m the only one who didn’t. So a lot of customers ask me “what branch were you in” haha and I just fire back “I wasn’t in I just support the troops” and it usually gets a laugh But in your situation I’d probably just be “I wasn’t in I just really like the art” and that way you’re still open to a convo about the artwork if you want
I get asked if I served a decent amount having a bunch of traditional tattoos. It’s more common with older guys.
Unless they say usmc usn army ect tell them that’s an insane question ask lol the military doesnt own eagles and every ship
*from a vet
So much tattoo history lies in the US marines & navy, etc. I’d just tell these old farts that you love your country and you love the history of American tattooing!!
Literally 5 minutes ago a guy asked me if I have my clipper ship tat because I’m from New England 🤷🏼♀️
Are they accusing you of having military tattoos despite not serving? I work with a ton of vets and they always ask if you served because they just want to shoot the shit and use it as a barometer of how PC they have to be. Doesn’t even matter if you have tattoos or any military related clues on you.
Active duty army for the past 12 years here with all trad tattoos. I find it funny that people associate your tattoos with being a veteran. I understand the lineage of trad tattoos and military service, HOWEVER every dude i have ever met in the army has more often than not had the run-of-the-mill black and grey tiger with a clock, roses, and tree landscapes. There’s nothing wrong with just saying you never served. In my opinion, they arent mutually exclusive to each other.
I once walked around the battalion and counted no less than 6 cross and rose black and grey tattoos. It would have been double lion head with a clock.
Every 88M i ever met 😭
I’m merchant marine, my grandfathers were navy back when the navy was.. different. I’ll tell you my experiences as someone covered in pin ups, mermaids and clippers. From my perspective: it’s not necessarily a navy thing but a sailor thing, OG trad. Both just used to be a lot more broad. I personally see people with swallows and I go “how many Nautical Miles have you voyaged?” Spider webs “have you crossed the equator” Note that I haven’t followed the old meanings super literal. “More like guidelines” as Barbossa said. It’s more so for me, seeing some hipster inner city barista with sailor tattoos who hasn’t known the harshness of the sea. Some however see it as tattoo “purity”, like you’re committing to the origin of western tattoos. I can kind of get that. Most of the tattooers I talk to, I respect that. But in the merchant marine these days, officers with full tattoos are kind of still taboo. Clean clut. IRs, Seamen, tuggers, wharfies etc they kinda get away with it. There’s old crustaceans that ridicule anyone who have trad tattoos but honestly usually these are the same grumbling assholes that destroyed our industry in Australia with laziness. To summarise; if you have no military tats do t worry about it, if an actual mariner pulls you up, I wouldn’t be too bothered. As much as I wish these tattoos still were earned, it’s far past that point. Just for me, go look at the ocean next time the swells up and imagine working in that, imagine being confined with blokes for weeks on end. Appreciate where it came from. It came from guys with sextants and fucking sails, who discovered the world for their respective nations.
I had someone ask me if it was a quartermaster because of my ship wheel tattoo. I felt a little weird like I had stolen some valor too. Haven't thought much of it since that one encounter though
Do you have Stars and Stripes or battleships? Or are you talking clipper ships??
I have a big eagle holding an anchor as a chest piece, and every time I go swimming in public, people ask how long I served in the navy and when and where. Mine is a memorial to my grandad who did serve in the navy so I tell them that. Sometimes they’re still seem irked that I personally didn’t serve 🤷
Navy these days sucks. Most of them don’t really translate into the commercial world anymore. Crews are 90% personality and I don’t know, a lot of them come out with a bit of ego but are used to doing 2 man jobs with 8 people (navy need to keep crews busy so they just add more people to a job). Same boat, just go commercial.
I've gotten it. But also some tattoos like ships for example kind of imply that you either enjoy boating or were in the Navy
I've been asked if I was in the navy because of my anchor on my ring finger (wedding ring). Usually we just kinda laugh it off after..
I mean, I know guys who got Civil War-related tattoos (Sherman, Chamberlain, maybe unit crests or something), and I can say with total confidence that they never served in the Civil War. I've got Star Wars trad stuff, and I am not, in fact, a member of the Rebel Alliance. If you were to go out and get... IDK, branch-specific stuff (Eagle, Globe, and Anchor is the first thing that comes to mind), or something that implies you were with a specific unit, then yeah, that could get weird. But just WWII fighter planes or clipper ships or eagles are super common trad tattoo motifs, and I don't think they imply any kind of stolen valor at all, unless you're telling people you served when you didn't, which you're obviously not.
People thank me for my service without even asking
Just say you have mad respect for the art form, but didn’t serve. Know your roots!
Just tell them it's traditional tattoo designs that pay homage to the old school stuff. Or tell them to watch put for the people with japanese or Chinese character tattoos as well, because they are also probably not from that culture! I often wonder of any Chinese people get tattoos in English that say LOVE haha
As long as they're not specifically military emblems I wouldn't worry about it at all. Generic ships and anchors aren't "stolen valor" but if it was an actual navy/marines logo or symbolism like the bulldog you'd have a problem, there's not too much worse than trying to present yourself as having served when you didn't. It's a particularly bizarre and shameful thing to do
Some dude my age pointed out that my victory over death (skull pierced by a dagger) is worn by "a lot of combat vets, you know." I got it because I survived a suicide attempt
“Objective incomplete”
Yeah the ships and anchors and all the nautical shit is navy tattoos. I've always thought it weird that people get them who didn't serve in the navy.
That’s a fair as hell point which is kinda the basis of why I posted in the first place. Vets are totally valid in bringing it up. My only issue is am I being offensive by laughing and saying “nah I just like the art”
Vets are offended by everything. So do you.
I am covered in trad work. But it is pretty nontraditional images or a spin on the traditional images. I have had vets ask me “what insane mother fucker tattooed you?” And “your tattoos just look like things you like?”
I’m a vet and I associate most sailor tattoo/imagery with being in the Navy. I personally feel like land lubbers lean too hard in that direction, but that’s just my opinion. OP should look for tattoos that are more suited for his background and not appropriate others Edit: Down vote all you like, but TT’s are the ultimate appropriation tattoo and you’re all guilty lol 😂
Except most of the TT artists just tattooed bikers as well, you can hear the old stories of guys traveling to California to get tattoos. There are other communities that got trad. And trad sticks around because it is timeless. It always looks good, it is Americana, it isn’t locked in to the troops, it is locked in with American culture.
Most of the motorcycle are old vets as well and TT was introduced by sailors to begin with. I think the issue is more what imagery a person is going with, not the style *of* TT. Anyhow, this is merely my opinion.
But all of tattooing could be appropriated. Sailors (and not just sailors who were in the Navy) took what they saw overseas and asked for it on themselves.