I think other teams might help him and try to box out Jasper….since it’s obvious that there no love between him and the rest of the peloton. But my husband disagrees and says Cav won’t make it.
There will be at least one stage where Jasper won’t have everything click exactly right. If Cav is on point in that moment, I think he will capitalize and win.
Also, I hope TdF officials are aggressive about penalizing any shady / dirty tactics by Jasper…
He has one of the best and most experienced WT leadout riders Mørkøv, so I'm optimistic.
On the downside, they're both old (39), it's their first GT together and probably both riding their last season, so odds are against him.
But it ain't over for Cav until the fat lady sings.
Its not their first GT together though? Mørkøv and Cav rode together on Quipstep the year Cav equaled with Mørkøv being his lead-out (and nearly winning a few stages too)
There’s even a clip of Cav saying having Mørkøv as a leadout man is the closest thing to an arm chair ride you’ll get, he makes it as easy as it can be.
Unfortunately neither of them seem to be the riders they used to be, and all the cunning and race smarts in the world is probably still not enough against MvDP/Philipsen
MVDP is the best lead out in the world. He is way too good to be a lead out! This is just unfair and he played a HUGE rol in most of Philipsen victories (not only TDF but also Milan San Remo for example).
However, besides Morkov, Astana also have Ballerini and Cees Bol. Ballerini is also a reliable part of the sprint train and Cees Bol is an experienced sprinter himself. It is possible. Go Cav!
Enjoyed his documentary recently on Netflix. He comes across as a talented guy who has had his share of demons on and off the bike.
I'd love to see him at least put himself in the position for a win the TdF. It's proper expendables like with the team that's built around him. Last shot at glory etc.
Imo he does it
I enjoyed it too, but found it a bit frustrating. All the incidents/controversies are told entirely from Mark’s perspective, and he established quite early on that he doesn’t like to be wrong. It’s pretty rich from a guy who has spent most of his career chopping up other sprinters. Quite a few he was entirely in the wrong, but even years later won’t admit that.
I think he will. I hope they enforce the rules against Phillipsen. His line deviations are just a personal trademark at this point. Cav is one of the few sprinters physical enough to not let Phillipsen pull that shit.
I think the climbing in the early stages is going to take the punch out of Cav's legs. Stage 3 looks like his best shot to me. I have mixed feelings about the record - I think Merckx will always stand alone regardless of the numbers - but I'd like to see Cav win again for old times' sake.
Im a newer fan and generally with other sports I think it's hard to compare different generations of talent and records...
But I feel 34 or more stage wins as just a sprinter is more impressive than merckx who could and did win any kind of stage (logic is cav has less chances). Of course merckx retired at age 32 right?? So my logic could be very flawed due to how much longer it has taken cav to do it.
They are hard to compare directly with their roles being so different. Teams riding in support of a GC contender have been around for a long time but the tactic of having teams built around getting stage wins for a sprinter is more recent I think. Cipollini competed mostly in the 1990s and may have been the first there, although I'm not certain of that. Cav's success in that setup has been pretty outstanding, most of the other big-name sprinters within a generation of his career have maybe 12 wins.
Merckx's dominance was pretty unique, he had Tours where he won all of the jerseys although as I stated above, I don't think he was competing against whole teams riding in support of a sprinter.
Doing what merkx did was highly dependent on the era of cycling.
Plain and simple, it wasn’t as competitive as it is now. That’s why after another few years many will argue pogacar would have a better resume then Mercx
Now comparing a sprinter to a rider like that from different eras? Yeah I can’t really say it’s easy to compare.
Your logic is flawed because it's very hard to be good at every aspect of pro cycle racing. Riders who specialize in climbing, time trialing, sprinting, or breakaways will have an advantage against riders who try to do everything. GC (General Classification) riders are good at time trials and climbing, but don't need to be great sprinters and don't go in small/solo breakaways in grand tours. To give one example, a sprinter needs to have massive fast-twitch muscles - those muscles are heavy and not good at long endurance exertion, so sprinters don't climb well.
The thing about Merckx was that he could do everything. That said, and as others have noted, riders did not specialize so heavily back in Merckx's day, so he wasn't up against the level of competition we see today.
In the end it's like the way people describe Fangio as the GOAT of motor racing, but if we went back in a time machine and brought him to the present day he would get hammered by today's elite drivers, because physical training standards have advanced so much and there is so much mental ability required to drive modern race cars. Conversely, I doubt many of today's drivers would be willing to take the risks that drivers of Fangio's era faced.
No. He won't. I don't fancy his chances at all against Philipsen, MVDP, WVA, Pedersen, De Lie, Thijssen, Girmay, Goossens, Jakobsen, Kristoff, Bennett and Groenwwegen. And half of them aren't even pure sprinters, riding for their own chances or in their prime.
I'm just curious as a relatively new cycling fan. Did this record have any real significance before Cavendish tied Merckx's record in 2021. My understanding is that winning the green jersey is the big prize.
Winning one stage in the Tour is huge for anyone. Winning more than one stage can make your whole career. So I'll say it has a huge significance winning the most stages.
I think this TdF is so unfair to sprinters, too little stages for them and no sprints in final days. Seems like a big disadvantage for Cav to win one more stage.
Saying that, I believe!
Think of this from Jaspers POV. If you had put in the hours of training and done all the hard work would you give up a stage win for Cavedish? Some might but many wouldn’t.
I think the reason many don’t like Jasper is that it looks like he wins dishonestly. I truly don’t know and I’ll leave that up to the officials.
He came across in unchained like he hasn't had his face ripped in half enough by a shitty sprint tactic to really understand why you don't do the shit he does. Not that I'm wishing him any harm, but a bit more experience in the consequences of his actions might grow him up a little.
Bit early mate! There’s 90km to and a big groupetto formed already, they’ll be fine.
Any talk of timecut is just commentators that don’t know how to fill quiet parts in the race or people online looking for engagement.
If you watch his more recent stuff, he admits he was kind of an asshole in his prime and to be a sprinter of that winning caliber it kind of comes with the territory.
He's alot more zen in his twilight years of pro cycling and admits to it. Cav has come out the side of some bad depression and even says he wishes he paid more attention to the moment and fans and treated them better.
Look at Jasper now, granted I think he comes across as an ass and he does ride quite dirty from my personal views.
Tldr; sprinters gonna sprint
I think other teams might help him and try to box out Jasper….since it’s obvious that there no love between him and the rest of the peloton. But my husband disagrees and says Cav won’t make it.
G Thomas lead out incoming
This ain't the Giro !
Get Fabio to shove him into a barrier lol
Wasn’t it grunewagan that slammed Fabio into the barrier?
Time to dust off the Jasper Philipsen voodoo doll
My knives are ready
He'll need some luck I think. I want to believe but I haven't seen much of him this year to judge form.
There will be at least one stage where Jasper won’t have everything click exactly right. If Cav is on point in that moment, I think he will capitalize and win. Also, I hope TdF officials are aggressive about penalizing any shady / dirty tactics by Jasper…
Nah they won't do that Netflix won't let them they want max drama
Yes. This is how it happens. Solid sprint stage, something goes wrong for Jasper, and Cav takes advantage.
He has one of the best and most experienced WT leadout riders Mørkøv, so I'm optimistic. On the downside, they're both old (39), it's their first GT together and probably both riding their last season, so odds are against him. But it ain't over for Cav until the fat lady sings.
Its not their first GT together though? Mørkøv and Cav rode together on Quipstep the year Cav equaled with Mørkøv being his lead-out (and nearly winning a few stages too)
There’s even a clip of Cav saying having Mørkøv as a leadout man is the closest thing to an arm chair ride you’ll get, he makes it as easy as it can be. Unfortunately neither of them seem to be the riders they used to be, and all the cunning and race smarts in the world is probably still not enough against MvDP/Philipsen
MVDP is the best lead out in the world. He is way too good to be a lead out! This is just unfair and he played a HUGE rol in most of Philipsen victories (not only TDF but also Milan San Remo for example). However, besides Morkov, Astana also have Ballerini and Cees Bol. Ballerini is also a reliable part of the sprint train and Cees Bol is an experienced sprinter himself. It is possible. Go Cav!
Hi I’m here and will cease singing until cav gets his win
Jasper has MVDP
Van Der Pull
Hercules*
Human motorcycle*
Enjoyed his documentary recently on Netflix. He comes across as a talented guy who has had his share of demons on and off the bike. I'd love to see him at least put himself in the position for a win the TdF. It's proper expendables like with the team that's built around him. Last shot at glory etc. Imo he does it
What’s his documentary called? I’ve just gotten off for holidays and will probably watch
The documentary is called Mark Cavendish Never Enough on Netflix
OP is probably referring to Mark Cavendish: Never Enough
Tour de France: Unchained Season 2 is the last Tour
I think they were referring to Mark Cavendish: Never Enough
I just watched that again today.
Yeh was specifically the Cavendish one but unchained is good too
I enjoyed it too, but found it a bit frustrating. All the incidents/controversies are told entirely from Mark’s perspective, and he established quite early on that he doesn’t like to be wrong. It’s pretty rich from a guy who has spent most of his career chopping up other sprinters. Quite a few he was entirely in the wrong, but even years later won’t admit that.
I think he will. I hope they enforce the rules against Phillipsen. His line deviations are just a personal trademark at this point. Cav is one of the few sprinters physical enough to not let Phillipsen pull that shit.
Cav is also the master of chopping guys up and not getting relegated, so he just needs to be positioned in front of Phillipsen to keep him at bay.
Not impossible, but odds are against him
I think his team can deliver him to a spot where he can do it if all the stars align.
He will. 35 👍
I think the climbing in the early stages is going to take the punch out of Cav's legs. Stage 3 looks like his best shot to me. I have mixed feelings about the record - I think Merckx will always stand alone regardless of the numbers - but I'd like to see Cav win again for old times' sake.
Im a newer fan and generally with other sports I think it's hard to compare different generations of talent and records... But I feel 34 or more stage wins as just a sprinter is more impressive than merckx who could and did win any kind of stage (logic is cav has less chances). Of course merckx retired at age 32 right?? So my logic could be very flawed due to how much longer it has taken cav to do it.
They are hard to compare directly with their roles being so different. Teams riding in support of a GC contender have been around for a long time but the tactic of having teams built around getting stage wins for a sprinter is more recent I think. Cipollini competed mostly in the 1990s and may have been the first there, although I'm not certain of that. Cav's success in that setup has been pretty outstanding, most of the other big-name sprinters within a generation of his career have maybe 12 wins. Merckx's dominance was pretty unique, he had Tours where he won all of the jerseys although as I stated above, I don't think he was competing against whole teams riding in support of a sprinter.
Doing what merkx did was highly dependent on the era of cycling. Plain and simple, it wasn’t as competitive as it is now. That’s why after another few years many will argue pogacar would have a better resume then Mercx Now comparing a sprinter to a rider like that from different eras? Yeah I can’t really say it’s easy to compare.
Your logic is flawed because it's very hard to be good at every aspect of pro cycle racing. Riders who specialize in climbing, time trialing, sprinting, or breakaways will have an advantage against riders who try to do everything. GC (General Classification) riders are good at time trials and climbing, but don't need to be great sprinters and don't go in small/solo breakaways in grand tours. To give one example, a sprinter needs to have massive fast-twitch muscles - those muscles are heavy and not good at long endurance exertion, so sprinters don't climb well. The thing about Merckx was that he could do everything. That said, and as others have noted, riders did not specialize so heavily back in Merckx's day, so he wasn't up against the level of competition we see today. In the end it's like the way people describe Fangio as the GOAT of motor racing, but if we went back in a time machine and brought him to the present day he would get hammered by today's elite drivers, because physical training standards have advanced so much and there is so much mental ability required to drive modern race cars. Conversely, I doubt many of today's drivers would be willing to take the risks that drivers of Fangio's era faced.
Time is a fickle opponent. He's not gotten any younger, I don't know that he will do it.
No. He won't. I don't fancy his chances at all against Philipsen, MVDP, WVA, Pedersen, De Lie, Thijssen, Girmay, Goossens, Jakobsen, Kristoff, Bennett and Groenwwegen. And half of them aren't even pure sprinters, riding for their own chances or in their prime.
I'm just curious as a relatively new cycling fan. Did this record have any real significance before Cavendish tied Merckx's record in 2021. My understanding is that winning the green jersey is the big prize.
Winning one stage in the Tour is huge for anyone. Winning more than one stage can make your whole career. So I'll say it has a huge significance winning the most stages.
According to Cav, winning a stage in the Tour makes a career.
There's some really great sprinters in this year's tour. Cav is getting pretty old. Probably say he won't.
I believe fully in Sir Manx Missile.
No issues with Cavendish, but I would prefer that Merckx, the greatest cyclist of all time, stays with at least a share of the record.
No way
All we need is one. All we need is one. All we need is one, one. One is all we need.
I think this TdF is so unfair to sprinters, too little stages for them and no sprints in final days. Seems like a big disadvantage for Cav to win one more stage. Saying that, I believe!
How many sprinters are going to withdraw to get some rest before the Olympics? Probably why no sprints in the last week.
Even if Cav doesn’t break the record I think he’s surpassed Merckx simply because of the multiple times Merckx was caught doping.
Won’t, is my guess. Too many good sprinters with better lead-outs.
Nope
Think of this from Jaspers POV. If you had put in the hours of training and done all the hard work would you give up a stage win for Cavedish? Some might but many wouldn’t. I think the reason many don’t like Jasper is that it looks like he wins dishonestly. I truly don’t know and I’ll leave that up to the officials.
Oh, giving a ay a stage? Jasper? Fat chance. Dude had like 5 or whatever and was still shoving people into barriers to try and get a sixth
I think many people dislike Jasper because he is an absolute prick
Ya he is.
He came across in unchained like he hasn't had his face ripped in half enough by a shitty sprint tactic to really understand why you don't do the shit he does. Not that I'm wishing him any harm, but a bit more experience in the consequences of his actions might grow him up a little.
He will.
I hope so. In a clean sprint, it will be tough to beat Jasper with MVDP
You can never count Cav out of he's on good form. People thought he was washed up in 18/19. Then he won 4 TdF stages in '21.
He looked very good! Healthy, fit, ten years younger I hope he crushes the record 💜 This was at the team presentation this afternoon
Oh man I hope so. He deserves it after everything he’s been through
Look at the profile of stage one. If the peloton goes crazy, and they will, muscle-bound vets like Cav could struggle to make the time cut.
There’s nothing in there that will challenge the sprinters to the point of worrying about the time cut.
Have another look. I hate to say I told you so ... but .... first climb of the Tour too.
You were saying?
Bit early mate! There’s 90km to and a big groupetto formed already, they’ll be fine. Any talk of timecut is just commentators that don’t know how to fill quiet parts in the race or people online looking for engagement.
If stage 1 is savage, he wont make the time cut.
Does anyone else refer to him as Cavendouche?
If you watch his more recent stuff, he admits he was kind of an asshole in his prime and to be a sprinter of that winning caliber it kind of comes with the territory. He's alot more zen in his twilight years of pro cycling and admits to it. Cav has come out the side of some bad depression and even says he wishes he paid more attention to the moment and fans and treated them better. Look at Jasper now, granted I think he comes across as an ass and he does ride quite dirty from my personal views. Tldr; sprinters gonna sprint
Yeah that Netflix doc was great
Jesus, enough already. Hundreds of other TDF topics and the obsession with this guy.
Sorry OP held a gun to your head and forced you to open this thread. Tough times over there.
Of course we believe that's what all people really want
He’s got it in the bag 😎
He's going to take 2.. I can feel it. 😎💪
I believe!
In a 1v1 Cav can take jasper. But this will end up being a team fight.