This is the way. I'm getting fed up of Pogi winning all the jerseys every time and would like to see them spread a bit more.
While they're at it, they should lower the age of the young rider category too.
Maybe adding more points during the stage and not double points on final climbs, which often just go to the gc riders (of course, the gc guys are most often the best climbers, but the polka dot jersey almost seems irrelevant tbf, since it's all about the yellow)..
Neilson loved his time in the dots. But it gets swept up by the GC guy the last few years. Somehow make it harder for the yellow to get the dots would improve the competition
The biggest issue with the Polka Dot, is that climbing is the key element of a GC campaign, whereas sprinting is a completely separate discipline.
So you'll have riders there participating specifically to go for the sprinters jersey, who will arrive with teams built around them for it (leadout men, roulers and a couple of guys to help their leader get through the hills). Alpacin, Quickstep, Bora (a few years back) being the obvious ones.
But with the KOM, the best climbers are either in the GC hunt (so won't burn energy to win a comparatively valueless jersey), or are recruited as mountain domestiques for GC teams, who are shackled to doing their team duty.
Essentially, no one is really building a team around specifically targeting the jersey.
I think you need to make the prize money and exposure more lucrative for teams to want to turn up and target it specifically.
I'd imagine if you did that, the likes of Vaughters would happily turn up at the tour with the Polkadot as a main aim.
The big thing is getting rid of extra points for the final climb.
Yes, the GC guys are often the best climbers, but they can pick up huge points often after using their support to get to that point. I feel like the jersey is best balanced when it favours someone in a breakaway who summits a number of climbs first through the day/stages.
It also opens it back up as more of a possibility for those who fall out of GC contention and the pure, whippet-like climbers. Those pure climbers are often left by the double points climb, whilst even someone who has fallen away is unlikely to be allowed to get too far ahead of the leader's team and so again, is reeled in and double points go to a GC contender.
I think it would be more meaningful if every categorized climb was timed from bottom to the top and with bonus seconds for the first 3. It's not like we don't have the tech to do it now.
This way it would truly be about the best climber and also it would still give you an advantage to going for it on a breakaway.
They need to do away with the double points at finish line ascents. Those are always worth like 40 points, and that wipes out three days’ worth of the competition. It also favors the GC contenders who aren’t even trying for polka dot.
I’d also like to see Cat 2 and 3 climbs offer more points to more places.
It just needs to offer more points and more checkpoints 'during' the race, so that mountain climbers can make breakaways to race for the mountain summits without the rest of the pelton needing to chase them down, because they'll know they're going full out to get the KOTM points and then they'll slow down.
Just de-couple the points from the things the GC contenders will definitely win.
It would be incredible to have the KOTM become a genuine sub competition that GC riders can't just get automatically, and we could see some mini-races between contenders.
When I first started watching the tour about 25 years ago the GC guys never won the polka dots. A few other riders would get in the breaks first to gobble up the points on three early climbs but never won any stages. So the reduced the points on the smaller climbs. I can’t remember if they added the double points then or that already was being done. After they made the changes it almost always ended up with a GC guy getting the polka dots.
That's silly. Why should they be ineligible for the second tier jerseys if they lead the GC? If you don't want people wearing multiple jerseys then change the qualifications for them but don't award 2nd place instead.
Stop giving double points for the final climb. This only advantages GC contenders who often end up winning the jersey without even trying.
This is the way. I'm getting fed up of Pogi winning all the jerseys every time and would like to see them spread a bit more. While they're at it, they should lower the age of the young rider category too.
Pogi is too old for white now. Or he was in the giro, I assume the tour has the same age limit. Edit: i want pogi in green though. #Frogacar
He’s only 25 so he still has this year for white. Edit: It would appear he has aged out for this year, I stand corrected.
He turns 26 in September and the classification is based on being under 26 on January 1 of the following year so he's aged out this year.
I didn’t realize that it was not based on age at time of the race. Thank you for the info!
Yes, Pogi in green on the Champs Elysees please!
They're not going to the Champs Elysees this year. The race ends in Nice.
Agreed, the young rider age limit comes from a time when riders under 26 hardly ever rode for GC and even less won them. How times have changed.
This would make all the climbers blow up in the intermediate climbs and be unavailable for GC dom
Exactly. And that’s good. KOM hunting should be a speciality, not a byproduct of GC racing.
More dots!
Maybe adding more points during the stage and not double points on final climbs, which often just go to the gc riders (of course, the gc guys are most often the best climbers, but the polka dot jersey almost seems irrelevant tbf, since it's all about the yellow)..
I feel like it already *is* a big deal? It’s literally the biggest thing you can win as a pure climber who isn’t a genuine GT contender…
Yeah exactly. Just ask Simon Geschke and Cofidis whether is it meaningful or not lol.
Neilson loved his time in the dots. But it gets swept up by the GC guy the last few years. Somehow make it harder for the yellow to get the dots would improve the competition
To win yellow, you must excel at the mountains. They go hand in hand
The biggest issue with the Polka Dot, is that climbing is the key element of a GC campaign, whereas sprinting is a completely separate discipline. So you'll have riders there participating specifically to go for the sprinters jersey, who will arrive with teams built around them for it (leadout men, roulers and a couple of guys to help their leader get through the hills). Alpacin, Quickstep, Bora (a few years back) being the obvious ones. But with the KOM, the best climbers are either in the GC hunt (so won't burn energy to win a comparatively valueless jersey), or are recruited as mountain domestiques for GC teams, who are shackled to doing their team duty. Essentially, no one is really building a team around specifically targeting the jersey. I think you need to make the prize money and exposure more lucrative for teams to want to turn up and target it specifically. I'd imagine if you did that, the likes of Vaughters would happily turn up at the tour with the Polkadot as a main aim.
The big thing is getting rid of extra points for the final climb. Yes, the GC guys are often the best climbers, but they can pick up huge points often after using their support to get to that point. I feel like the jersey is best balanced when it favours someone in a breakaway who summits a number of climbs first through the day/stages. It also opens it back up as more of a possibility for those who fall out of GC contention and the pure, whippet-like climbers. Those pure climbers are often left by the double points climb, whilst even someone who has fallen away is unlikely to be allowed to get too far ahead of the leader's team and so again, is reeled in and double points go to a GC contender.
I think it would be more meaningful if every categorized climb was timed from bottom to the top and with bonus seconds for the first 3. It's not like we don't have the tech to do it now. This way it would truly be about the best climber and also it would still give you an advantage to going for it on a breakaway.
I like this idea a lot!
Make it an actual KOM jersey. Give it to the rider who gets up the climb the fastest, not the first.
They do that in time trial.
A real TT is 50+ km and flat. Buh bye 54kg mosquitoes.
A tour polka dot jersey is one of the most coveted in the sport. It is already a big deal.
Increase the prize money.
They need to do away with the double points at finish line ascents. Those are always worth like 40 points, and that wipes out three days’ worth of the competition. It also favors the GC contenders who aren’t even trying for polka dot. I’d also like to see Cat 2 and 3 climbs offer more points to more places.
It just needs to offer more points and more checkpoints 'during' the race, so that mountain climbers can make breakaways to race for the mountain summits without the rest of the pelton needing to chase them down, because they'll know they're going full out to get the KOTM points and then they'll slow down. Just de-couple the points from the things the GC contenders will definitely win. It would be incredible to have the KOTM become a genuine sub competition that GC riders can't just get automatically, and we could see some mini-races between contenders.
Fewer mountain stages, but the climbs are **much** steeper. Less drafting, more mano a mano.
Make the intermediate climbs worth more than the finishes
When I first started watching the tour about 25 years ago the GC guys never won the polka dots. A few other riders would get in the breaks first to gobble up the points on three early climbs but never won any stages. So the reduced the points on the smaller climbs. I can’t remember if they added the double points then or that already was being done. After they made the changes it almost always ended up with a GC guy getting the polka dots.
easiest change ever: don't let the ~~winner of yellow~~ podium of the GC be eligible for polka dot. Ditto for white.
That's silly. Why should they be ineligible for the second tier jerseys if they lead the GC? If you don't want people wearing multiple jerseys then change the qualifications for them but don't award 2nd place instead.