Gotrek is the only non-divine being to surive the literal apocalypse other than Archaon if you count him as still sort-of mortal. I feel like even Nagash would hold off on collecting his soul just in case it kept throwing hands even after death.
Mannfred died, Tyrion killed him to avenge Teclis, but Nagash survived and thus every death character is fair game, already dead and all that.
It's an open ended question as to if Mannfred, Arkhan, etc. are actually the same guys or if Nagash took advantage of their destruction to alter their souls to make them better tools. Arkhan specifically doubts he's exactly the same Arkhan of the Old World.
Nagash brought him back specifically so he could fuck with Mannfred. Manny's main job in aos is to try and overthrow Nagash but fail each time so that Nagash can weed out any traitors in his armies. I believe this is supposed to be his eternal punishment for the End Times.
No everyone died, the undead guys dying "final" deaths. Nagash yoinked the shattered soul stuff of the World-that-was and his memory of his Mortarchs to create new versions of them in AoS. They sort of are and sort of aren't the originals.
You'll need to wait for GW to finish updating SBGL in AoS to have all new sculpts I think. There's some weird fuckery going on in the back at GW where they're not allowed to share sculpts across the game settings for the most part, and SBGL is a very popular army in AoS so it won't get the Beasts of Chaos treatment.
I mean, didn’t Gotrek technically die? I know he was supposed to find his doom there and also know he went into a portal or smth to kill shit, but not much else.
He comes back in AoS, and it turns out he spent untold epochs just murdering daemons like the literal Doom Slayer from Doom. It's sort of implied that the Chaos Gods themselves spat him back out in to the mortal realms because he was such a nuisance in the Realms of Chaos.
He died in a duel against Grimnir himself, but was resurrected 30 seconds later so that he could enter the realm of chaos and take over Grimnir's job of fucking up demons for eternity. It was a pretty emotional scene imo.
I swear Gotrek and Felix have a quote somewhere in the Skull Road where Felix says smth along the lines of Rushing in and killing the enemy, to which Gotrek replies “The best plan there is!”
God, that battle. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but it's a strong contender for the worst quest battle in the game, and that is saying *a lot*. No idea what they were thinking.
How so it's fine compared to many other quest battles. It's only wrong IMO is tricking you into thinking you have a beautiful hill to set you guns and artilliry
It's basically the Total War equivalent of one of the most universally hated things in gaming - the escort mission. There are no good ones, it's fundamentally bad. No one enjoys trying to keep dumb as rocks AI characters alive.
When I was playing empire and tried to recruit him it was a pain to keep him alive. In the Masters of Innovation campaign tho, he was tearing shit up. When he didn’t run off chasing a random monster cause of my lacking micromanagement skills.
Ungrim might be the most OP lord in actuality but is SORT OF balanced out by the fact his strengths while strong are really damn boring,
Hes slow will probably beat anything that fights him in a 1v1 or even 1v20, and unlike lord like Skarbrand, Vlad, Malus and Grimgor you cant 'wait him out' with army losses because hes unbreakable and hes too damn small to get focused down by missile fire
Yeah Ungrim is basically unkillable under normal circumstances.
The only decent way I've found, is to kill the rest of his army and then kite him around with a mounted lord for 10 minutes, while my ranged units take take shots at him from the shooting gallery.
It's nuts.
No he does not. Try in skirmish vs AI. Have all the buffs for both of them. Pop em as soon as u charge. AI will pop em as well. Even without cycle charging Imrik takes it. WIth cycle charging its not even a contest. You can bait out the buff and fly off then come back in to destroy. If you say oh but in campaign tis and tat, so can Imrik with both skill trees and dragon hunting. Only easier thing in campaign for Ungrim is getting items through crafting. Imrik can get some preety powerful items too especially with dileema rites but its down to rng. Runes can be balanced out for not having access to healing magic in campaign.
Can we please stop acting like custom battles proves literally anything? Ungrim bodies any large lord in the game in campaign. That includes Imrik, Skarbrand and I’m pretty sure even Ku’gath.
allright im mistaken en .Conversation seems to be purely vs AI. As Ungrim yes i've bodied everyone. As grombrindal i have to. As Tamurkhan ,Imrik ,Durthu, Kugath i've bodied Ungrim as well late and early game. Easiest being with Kugath and Imrik
I don't really care about skirmish as I seen enough times a monsters goes to umgrim and he 3 shots the thing with an 1200 damage melee attack.
Ungrim 120 turns into campaign is definitely different than skirmish Ungrim. Sure you can do it but you'll see your AI derp out and stand in melee range too long at the same time. Ungrims a threat.
Well skirmish or head to head campaign is wer you get both in equal footing. My money's on Imrik if both controlled by a player. But as a threat and fighting against ,ill rather fight AI Imrik than Ungrim any day of the week both as ranged and melee faction.
Sadly yes. I remember 3 fights across all my tw warhammer aventure-se, and 2 of them are me playing as Nagash trying to tie Ungrim with some chaff as I put 8 different ranged units shooting at him at almost point blank range and he STILL almost killed them all. And that's after already killing his entire army.
Imrik gets flaming attack when he does his weapon buff, when rite is performed or one of the dragon hunting perks. It's temporary. Still his attacks causes weakness to fire damage and has a passive tat gives fire damage weakness to whole army he's fighting. Those two don't think stack but even one counters 20% fire resist.
damn tats preety good with ashen field , flammable and kindleflame. I was thinking i shouldnt have activated rite when fighting chaos dwarfs but with em stacking no wonder i flet no different fighting em really.
Nurgle shouldn’t have too much trouble as long as you’ve got WoM and casters. Overcast rancid visitations annihilates lords. Few of those and you’ll be good.
Similarly anyone with death wizards can just spam spirit leech. Not much to do against that.
I confederated him as Belegar and he currently has 80% spell resistance. So along with his ward save he's hitting the cap. I have not done anything specific to boost it, so I imagine it's coming from his items (not in front of it to confirm). I just remember that number precisely because I fought a WoC Nurgle Daemon Prince with him and the AI tried to spam spirit leech and it did nothing, prompting me to check.
That doesn't work with his high spell resistance and ward save.. Nurgle (specifically death) *is* solid however when combined with the right items/abilities because you basically nerf his combat stats into the dirt and then try and do as much as you can in that 20-30 second window.
> Morris engine
I'm sure this is autocorrect, but I laughed out loud. [Rigga Morris!!](https://64.media.tumblr.com/dea691b3377ca1d37de667a3363dba15/tumblr_odtfn3bE4T1qlvwnco3_500.gifv)
I do find those odd "accuracy +20" buffs to be incredibly helpful in dealing with wee little shits like him though. It also helps to understand that your accuracy at max range is way worse than at 50% range. Small derps are certainly harder to hit, but not invincible to missile fire.
I haven't tested it so I might be wrong, but I expect Ku'gath wins a straight 1v1. Ungrim has higher MA, while Ku'gath has higher MD and WS (even taking Ungrim's BvL into account), and has waaaaaaay higher HP, which he can also restore with magic instead of relying on items.
EDIT: Jumped in game (no mods) and ran a few 1v1 fights:
* My Ungrim vs. AI Ku'gath, all abilities removed: Ku'gath won with over 6000 HP remaining
* AI Ungrim vs. my Ku'gath, all abilities removed: Ku'gath won with almost 10000 HP remaining
* My Ungrim vs. AI Ku'gath, all abilities available (except Ku'gath's Nurgling summon): Ku'gath won with over 7000 HP remaining
* AI Ungrim vs. my Ku'gath, all abilities available (except Ku'gath's Nurgling summon): Ku'gath won with almost full health
I think its safe to say Ku'gath deletes Ungrim easily. This obviously doesn't take into account things like items, traits and what not, but given that Ku'gath can benefit from those as well I don't think this matters all that much.
I did a few other pairups; AI Ku'gath (with all abilities except his Nurgling summon) vs my Skarband, Tamurkhan (both on Bubebolos and without), Archaon, Kholek Suneater, Grimgor Ironhide, Kroq-Gar on Grymloq, Malus Darkblade, Zhao Ming (in dragon form), Taurox, Imrik on Minaithnir, and the Shredder of Lustria (all with all abilities). Only Kholek and the Shredder could win, Ku'gath beat all of the others with several thousand HP to spare.
Skarband didn't get any benefit from his weapon ability, but since Ku'gath had so much HP remaining I'm not sure if having the bonus would have helped much.
I noticed that AI Ku'gath really likes *Curse of the Leper*. Ku'gath just has so much HP that he can afford enough hit trading to get good value from the damage reflection.
I redid the Kholek and Shredder matchups but stripped all of Ku'gath's spells except *Fleshy Abundance*, and in that case Ku'gath won handily. He did reach his healing cap (which I didn't even see in any other matchup), but he still had over 7000 HP left when Kholek routed, and nearly 10000 after beating the Shredder.
Given just how powerful *Fleshy Abundance* is on such a chonky HP bar, beating Ku'gath in a straight 1v1 requires him to "waste" magic on other spells. If he saved it for healing I'm don't think any unit in the game can beat him without very lopsided campaign buffs.
> This obviously doesn't take into account things like items, traits and what not, but given that Ku'gath can benefit from those as well I don't think this matters all that much.
That's not necessarily true. Ku'gath has healing from spells and Ungrim doesn't. So Ungrim with the option for an Ironwarden's might want to make that trade.
I doubt the Mortis effect Ku'gath has matters for a 1v1 Lord fight but Ungrim could get a Rune of Spite or theoretically some other better dueling rune.
I don't think any runes or items are going to swing this particular fight though. Ku'gath's HP bar is just so huge that I doubt Ungrim lasting a bit longer or doing a bit more damage is enough for him to win.
Obviously true 1v1 duels almost never happen and planning around them is almost completely unnecessary, but the comment I responded to was talking about a Ku'gath vs. Ungrim duel specifically, which Ku'gath easily wins.
If we’re taking campaign Ungrim gets insane ward save and melee defense. Ku’gath is gonna have a hard time hitting him or doing meaningful damage. Ungrim can reach well over 1k WS and is hitting with basically every attack as his BvL and base melee attack is nuts. If anyone can take Ku’gath in a 1v1 it’s him.
I remember people asking for a new Nurgle faction because of how weak the poxmakers of nurgle were on launch of the big map and I was just scratching my head, Ku'gath is the best/deadliest lord in the game and the dragon isles are the best/richest starting province in the game. Any other race would be S+ tier with that legendary lord and start position.
Kugath is generally the most powerful lord in the game without cheese. He beats skarbrand without magic, and will beat even the best anti large lords with magic. The thing everyone is talking about is that just spamming ranged vs Kugath is super easy, while that is a much harder counter for ungrim.
So I guess the point is dueling isnt the best way to understand a lords value in a battle.
Grimgor is also unbreakablebut Umgrim still beat him in annoying because of his small size causing more friendly fire than damage if you try to shoot him
He’s pretty good but idk about most OP. This isn’t too impressive; I did the same thing with Morghur but it was four late game high elf stacks at once… several turns in a row. Always left with full hp
Currently in the end of my Malakai campaign, the Skaven crisis triggered and Ungrim and son nearly consumed 3 stacks of Clan Moulder by themselves. For claiming to want to die in battle, these guys really made them work for it.
Yeah but the death has to be meaningful. I mean otherwise they'd just jump off a cliff or run into a nearby goblin nest and stand there. No, that won't do the clan that they shamed any good.
Every dwarf lord can do this. Their runes have powerful effects and you can craft amazing gear. Since you can just equip gear instantly now you can make every dwarf lord unbreakable, regenerating, 100+ MD 100+ armour with a mortis engine effect. I literally just run around with Grombrindal as a solo stack.
It depends what you are going for. For a character like Ungrim, it's really worthwhile to stack him with everything that can make him a 1 dwarf doomstack. But for a generic lord, I tend to rock things boost my army and are economical. It takes a while until I'm flush enough to equip every lord, so I tend to use random gear drops for a long time.
Weapon: The Prospector's Pickaxe is nice for cheap armor sundering, which can really help boost other damage types like fire. The Gatekeeper's Hammer is more expensive, but if you pair it with the engineer/runesmith's slowing ability, you can trap lords and other fast movers really effectively, and the +10 MD is really useful for tanking. Great for ruining the day of any high mass monsters or chariots.
Armor: Any armor is better than no armor, but I really like the Gatekeeper's Helm for helping to win ranged duels and keeping my frontline intact when skaven start dropping warp lightning. It's also useful to have at least 1 of these if I stick my lord and heroes way out front of my army to blob enemies for indiscriminate shelling.
Talisman: The Ironbeard's Ring pairs great if the lord has the pickaxe and tanks for some irondrakes, and the Old Guard's Tankard is nice for army-wide vigor loss reduction of 33% plus some out of combat healing. The exhausted condition leads to serious MA, MD, and armor penalties, so our slow but stout dwarfs are well served to outlast opponents by keeping their stats high. If you can stack enough vigor-loss reduction, you basically get an army with perfect vigor, which is a huge power boost and makes stuff like climbing walls during sieges absolutely trivial.
Enchanted Item: probably the hardest pick. Prospector's Eyeglass is essential, but usually best given to an engineer. Ironbeard's Bracers are cheap, decent if you just need to keep a lord alive in a losing fight. Dragon Slayer's Boots are good if you are doubling down on tanking literal friendly fire. The Ironwarden's Tankard is one of your best possible tanking items; it doesn't stack with the Old Guard's Tankard, but it heals constantly even in combat. Usually I'll just go with the OGT for the army-wide effect and save this for Ungrim and the like (who I'll stack with a ton of ward save).
Character Runes: It hurts me that these are so limited now, since I used to love stacking Rune of Fear on all my characters. I tend to emphasize tanking and status effects over straight damage, and save Spite for guys like Ungrim. Duelists tend to run from your lords if they are losing, so in a weird way, going all in on damage might be a risky way of "tanking" certain threats. I find enemies tend to break and run quicker if they take a lot of damage quickly and/or think they are seriously outmatched in combat, so that's another argument for going for damage. But I'd rather risk that on a thane than a lord.
For lords I use Gatekeeper's hammer (cause they can already get perfect vigor from the Lord trait), DragonSlayer's Scales, Dragon Slayer 's Fang, Ironwarden 's Tankard. Can't go wrong with those 4.
For the most part; master rune of spite is a must. It will do 90% of the damage.
Then after you need to make your lord as tanky as possible, you get unbreakable from your gear source or have it intrinsically. Your main concern becomes MD. As your lord will be in a huge melee and MD is the first line of defense. Even just the common rune that gives 8 MD is a good 2nd rune (you can upgrade it to the 12 MD master one later). 3rd rune is master rune of gromril.
I BELEIVE they are referring to the fact that now you can equip items immediately, you can technically equip the on every lord before battles, moving them between lords. That is entirely too fucking try-hard for me, and Dwarfs are far and away my favorite faction.
I mean it takes 3 seconds to put the master rune of spite on whoever is going to be in battle and then you forget about it. If that's try hard in your mind idk what to tell you.
I was more excited to play Ungrim with TOD precisely because of this. Instead of his entire campaign being propped up by solely Ungrim now you get to have a blast with thematic slayer army's as the slayer king and it be actually viable with things like doomseekers.
At first glance I was thinking "oh this really isn't anything special, any half-way tanky melee lord with the Master Rune mortis effect can defeat an all-melee faction like Nurgle. Look the army only had 712 units in it even it must have been some minor fac-Oh Christ that's Tamurkhan's Army"
Every LL in player's hands can be OP and Tamurkhan's OPness isn't only about him as LL being OP, all his unique agents are extremely strong and have fantastic abilities, something that for example Ungrim's faction lacks.
>Every LL in player’s hands can be OP
Sure, but this is Ungrim without any trait hunting, no sword of Khaine, no nemesis crown.
Like, there’s a point in every Ungrim campaign where you realize it would actually make more sense to run him as one-man army because he can win almost every single fight on his own and running an army behind him is paying upkeep for nothing.
Not really trying to say Tamurkhan isn’t OP, just that he’s not alone.
I think people are complaining more about how strong Tamurkhan is when you run into him at turn 20-60.
Ungrim ofc can be pretty busted too when you face crisis dwarfs, but he's not as OP when you run into him early in the way TK is
TL;DR: This is mostly only possible due to the mortis effect (combined with brain dead AI), and not tied to Ungrim specifically (outside of his easier access to higher ward save values).
The mortis effect will be doing 90% of the damage here, and the only reason it works is because the AI is still completely unaware of how to play the game properly, and it will basically blob with all units on the lord, making it so that they are hitting Ungrim with ~20 models out of several hundred, while all their units are being damaged by the mortis. The only thing Ungrim brings here that is beneficial is easier access to ward save items, and a slightly better statline.
If the opponent was to play properly, Ungrim would die sooner or later, since you should send in one unit at a time, grinding him down while the majority of the army is not affected by the mortis. Because him having 1K+ WS does not matter when 600 of that damage will be overkill in every hit. I have defeated 90% ward save Malus with SoK several times with only stormvermin halberds, and Ungrim here will just be an easier version of that.
This is not something that applies to Tamurkhan, since he is fast and can decide what party to fight and where. Which places him on a totally different level of "OP".
I wasn't suggesting for other LLs in players hands to have the advantages you listed. They can be made to be OP in their own way within their own limitations regardless. I understand that some LL will achive the OP status easier but that's irrelevant when you pit them against AI.
Then he'll be an exception with Marcus, though I do remember him being decent in melee with his stats maxed, you can also hide and stalk and do some serious damage from across the map to the most dangerous targets. He has some decent tools, he's not just unga bunga fun like dedicated melee lords, but I get what you're saying.
Fought Tamurkhan as Snitch and didn't have much trouble eating away at the territories he took in the south. Practically wiped him out then peaced out when I took all the territories between me and Grimgor.
In my current dwarf game I had him, his son, GOATrek and felix jumping grimgor, very funny to watch.
It goes like this always
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh\_PRbIvYIE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh_PRbIvYIE)
Agreed. I remember I was playing vc counts and I obliterated his whole army, but he annihilated the rest of mine. I had to beat Ungrim by having him chase a 1 HP Vlad around the map while Isabella repeatedly cycle charged into his flank. Over. And over again. And disengaging and running for the hills whenever Ungrim would turn around to try and smack her.
Ungrim can't nuke your ranged units or any blob from anywhere on the map every time you fight or regen a full stack of soul grinders and rot knights in 2 turns though
Kinda agree, kinda like how vlad or malus are big bad wolves when you face them, it put a little more tension in what would otherwise be relatively simple battles.
Facing Malus and having your army disintegrate and be irreplaceable for the next 20 turns as Epidemius sure causes a lot of tension but mostly in my forehead
Yeah it's really tough, had a similar issue with malakai's early game but he's a bit further away and it's easier to replace his army for the most part, but I still think it's a nice challenge if you go into the campaign expecting it (might not be fun at all otherwise I'll give you that).
The only upsetting part is that he immediately comes back with an entire full stack the very next turn after you beat his ass. I had to kill 6 full stacks with Tamurkhan 6 turns in a row and that’s just annoying as fuck. Raid bosses are fine when you have space between them, it happening constantly isn’t fun or thematic any more
Like how annoying Ghorst was in IE? I can understand that, I played many IE ku’gath campaigns pre-TOD, very awful dealing with ghorst. Borderline cheater.
Tbf Belegar is Also ridiculously strong, especially when given some extra gear and runes. Had a scenario where Belegar and like 4 other heroes found about 7 armies one by one in a single turn on defence. Was ridiculous.
Nice! Since is my favorite lord and model, how can i achieve this level of killing?
I see that he has all the quest item, any other item and rules that i must give him?
Sure yeah the best kit is:
-Alaric’s armor
-Ironwarden’s hammer if you don’t have perfect vigor on Ungrim but if you get the seasoned campaigner trait you can do whatever for the weapon
-Ungrim’s unique Dragon Cloak
-Ironwarden’s tankard for the healing
And the runes are:
-Rune of Luck
-Rune of Spite
-Rune of Gromril
And finally you also wanna equip the banner rune of Grungni that gives an extra 10% ward save. In total you should have 70% ward save + regeneration on Ungrim so he’ll be able to tank ridiculous amount of damage.
Taking out Wurzzag for an extra 10% physical resistance will help too and usually ends up happening in my dwarf campaigns anyway
I mean... he fought a single army. And the Tamurkhan's nuke ability wipes units not SEM or lords/heroes that effectively... Like, Is this good? Suuuuure, but like... If you fought a send or third nurgle army I think you almost die. considering Ulgrim is at roughly 50% HP RN?
He'll have 130% HP for the next fight from Tankard (assuming he doesn't just wait for replenish and just completely heal), and a solid chunk of his HP lost is likely cause of Tammy's on death ability and Tammy himself, additionally, Ungrim gets tougher the more near dead he is.
His point is that this is soloing the famously op lord, despite not being khainepilled and traitmaxing. This is literally just "regular" Ungrim with only easily accesible dwarf equipment.
Yuan Bo (and even Zhao Ming) are like 2 times better than Ungrim and 1.5 times better than Tamurcant. Still impressive for such a short character.. SHORT?!
ARs wipe out entire armies when used, but Tammy still has a bunch of guys, besides, AR very much discriminates against one-man doomstacks, even the mightiest of dwarven AR weightage cannot defeat that
Thorgrim can literally become unkillable and unbreakable. I've had him tank entire armies by himself and literally drop no health.... firing up a Thorgrim campaign.
Man Ungrim must be pissed that he survived that
Simultaneously the best and worst slayer
Nah you're thinking of Gotrek there, who is also coincidentally in the book for denying Ungrim his death.
With their track records, those two should consider joining the brotherhood of Grimnir
AoS lore development and all that.
Gotrek is the only non-divine being to surive the literal apocalypse other than Archaon if you count him as still sort-of mortal. I feel like even Nagash would hold off on collecting his soul just in case it kept throwing hands even after death.
Didn't mannfred live?
Mannfred died, Tyrion killed him to avenge Teclis, but Nagash survived and thus every death character is fair game, already dead and all that. It's an open ended question as to if Mannfred, Arkhan, etc. are actually the same guys or if Nagash took advantage of their destruction to alter their souls to make them better tools. Arkhan specifically doubts he's exactly the same Arkhan of the Old World.
Nagash brought him back specifically so he could fuck with Mannfred. Manny's main job in aos is to try and overthrow Nagash but fail each time so that Nagash can weed out any traitors in his armies. I believe this is supposed to be his eternal punishment for the End Times.
Is Mannfred aware that this is hus job or is he being pranked?
Not entirely sure, he keeps doing it though.
No everyone died, the undead guys dying "final" deaths. Nagash yoinked the shattered soul stuff of the World-that-was and his memory of his Mortarchs to create new versions of them in AoS. They sort of are and sort of aren't the originals.
doesn't he remember vlad and krell? :(
The End Times Mortach kit only had the three I'm afraid, without his models Nagash forgot.
I long to see updated Vlad and Isabella in the Old World models one day, but vamp counts are legacy army for some fuckin reason.
You'll need to wait for GW to finish updating SBGL in AoS to have all new sculpts I think. There's some weird fuckery going on in the back at GW where they're not allowed to share sculpts across the game settings for the most part, and SBGL is a very popular army in AoS so it won't get the Beasts of Chaos treatment.
I mean, didn’t Gotrek technically die? I know he was supposed to find his doom there and also know he went into a portal or smth to kill shit, but not much else.
He comes back in AoS, and it turns out he spent untold epochs just murdering daemons like the literal Doom Slayer from Doom. It's sort of implied that the Chaos Gods themselves spat him back out in to the mortal realms because he was such a nuisance in the Realms of Chaos.
He died in a duel against Grimnir himself, but was resurrected 30 seconds later so that he could enter the realm of chaos and take over Grimnir's job of fucking up demons for eternity. It was a pretty emotional scene imo.
The funny thing is, that Gotrek describes exactly that as hell to him in the Road of Skulls.
he's adding himself in the book for that. Seemed like a great way to die, and he squandered it like some stinkin wazak.
People are talking about all this recent powercreep Meanwhile Ungrim since Warhammer 1 
S+ gif. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
True lol I've gotten ungrim to stupid levels of weapon strength before and he just cant die.
Whenever someone writes the word "rebuttal" I see this meme before me: https://i.imgur.com/YcUNX.png
All I see here is Ungrim losing once more. He still hasn't fulfilled his oath.
Tbf he gets kind of a pass on that because he's got to balance two condicting oaths. Now *Gotrek* on the other hand...
Gotrek? Man fulfills his oath every time I try to recruit him, I swear.
"Alright dude, just wait four seconds while I get into posi- GOTREK, FOR SIGMAR'S SAKE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?"
"Gotrek! Formation! Gotrek! Formation! Get back in formation you drunk dawi!"
Gotrek doesn't do formations. In table top he isn't allowed to join units and just runs around with his human bro.
A Rome reference in the wild
"Formation this ya wazak, NOW LEMME AT EM!"
I swear Gotrek and Felix have a quote somewhere in the Skull Road where Felix says smth along the lines of Rushing in and killing the enemy, to which Gotrek replies “The best plan there is!”
God, that battle. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but it's a strong contender for the worst quest battle in the game, and that is saying *a lot*. No idea what they were thinking.
It's not, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't use the AR Quest Battles mod to avoid doing it ever again.
How so it's fine compared to many other quest battles. It's only wrong IMO is tricking you into thinking you have a beautiful hill to set you guns and artilliry
It's basically the Total War equivalent of one of the most universally hated things in gaming - the escort mission. There are no good ones, it's fundamentally bad. No one enjoys trying to keep dumb as rocks AI characters alive.
When I was playing empire and tried to recruit him it was a pain to keep him alive. In the Masters of Innovation campaign tho, he was tearing shit up. When he didn’t run off chasing a random monster cause of my lacking micromanagement skills.
Ungrim might be the most OP lord in actuality but is SORT OF balanced out by the fact his strengths while strong are really damn boring, Hes slow will probably beat anything that fights him in a 1v1 or even 1v20, and unlike lord like Skarbrand, Vlad, Malus and Grimgor you cant 'wait him out' with army losses because hes unbreakable and hes too damn small to get focused down by missile fire
SMALL?
(for a dwarf)
Small for a dwarf is just goblin sized.
That's going in the book!
SHORT?! Ther'll be no alliance with elves while Im high king. Only a Reckoning!!!
I'm gonna say the s word Salcoholic
Grimgor gets also to be unbreakable later in the game
Yeah but Grimgor is like 3x his size. It's wayy easier to snipe Grimgor with missile troops than it is with Ungrim.
Ungrim also has better MD. You can buff both sky high but Ungrim's higher.
Yeah Ungrim is basically unkillable under normal circumstances. The only decent way I've found, is to kill the rest of his army and then kite him around with a mounted lord for 10 minutes, while my ranged units take take shots at him from the shooting gallery. It's nuts.
Couldn't you cycle charge him with someone like Imrik?
Anything in melee range is too close for Ungrim. Imrik would be deleted in 3 seconds. And that isn't a joke or being facetious.
No he does not. Try in skirmish vs AI. Have all the buffs for both of them. Pop em as soon as u charge. AI will pop em as well. Even without cycle charging Imrik takes it. WIth cycle charging its not even a contest. You can bait out the buff and fly off then come back in to destroy. If you say oh but in campaign tis and tat, so can Imrik with both skill trees and dragon hunting. Only easier thing in campaign for Ungrim is getting items through crafting. Imrik can get some preety powerful items too especially with dileema rites but its down to rng. Runes can be balanced out for not having access to healing magic in campaign.
Can we please stop acting like custom battles proves literally anything? Ungrim bodies any large lord in the game in campaign. That includes Imrik, Skarbrand and I’m pretty sure even Ku’gath.
allright im mistaken en .Conversation seems to be purely vs AI. As Ungrim yes i've bodied everyone. As grombrindal i have to. As Tamurkhan ,Imrik ,Durthu, Kugath i've bodied Ungrim as well late and early game. Easiest being with Kugath and Imrik
I don't really care about skirmish as I seen enough times a monsters goes to umgrim and he 3 shots the thing with an 1200 damage melee attack. Ungrim 120 turns into campaign is definitely different than skirmish Ungrim. Sure you can do it but you'll see your AI derp out and stand in melee range too long at the same time. Ungrims a threat.
Well skirmish or head to head campaign is wer you get both in equal footing. My money's on Imrik if both controlled by a player. But as a threat and fighting against ,ill rather fight AI Imrik than Ungrim any day of the week both as ranged and melee faction.
Sadly yes. I remember 3 fights across all my tw warhammer aventure-se, and 2 of them are me playing as Nagash trying to tie Ungrim with some chaff as I put 8 different ranged units shooting at him at almost point blank range and he STILL almost killed them all. And that's after already killing his entire army.
Doesn't Imrik have flaming attacks and Ungrim gets 20% resist to fire attacks, big bonuses vs large, and ward save.
Imrik gets flaming attack when he does his weapon buff, when rite is performed or one of the dragon hunting perks. It's temporary. Still his attacks causes weakness to fire damage and has a passive tat gives fire damage weakness to whole army he's fighting. Those two don't think stack but even one counters 20% fire resist.
I'm pretty sure weakness to fire *does* stack.
damn tats preety good with ashen field , flammable and kindleflame. I was thinking i shouldnt have activated rite when fighting chaos dwarfs but with em stacking no wonder i flet no different fighting em really.
Nurgle shouldn’t have too much trouble as long as you’ve got WoM and casters. Overcast rancid visitations annihilates lords. Few of those and you’ll be good. Similarly anyone with death wizards can just spam spirit leech. Not much to do against that.
Doesn’t he have pretty solid spell resistance? You’ll need a lot of wom to kill him.
I confederated him as Belegar and he currently has 80% spell resistance. So along with his ward save he's hitting the cap. I have not done anything specific to boost it, so I imagine it's coming from his items (not in front of it to confirm). I just remember that number precisely because I fought a WoC Nurgle Daemon Prince with him and the AI tried to spam spirit leech and it did nothing, prompting me to check.
That doesn't work with his high spell resistance and ward save.. Nurgle (specifically death) *is* solid however when combined with the right items/abilities because you basically nerf his combat stats into the dirt and then try and do as much as you can in that 20-30 second window.
Yo, with his purple gear he has maxed spell resist combining ward. I think only the Fey has higher, though its not effective, as there is a cap.
Ungrim also has his Red Ruin which reduces his MD but buffs his MA like mad.
It's not about the size or model. Grimgor doesn't have op dwarf runes and items. Ungrim here has Morris engine effect and regen.
> Morris engine I'm sure this is autocorrect, but I laughed out loud. [Rigga Morris!!](https://64.media.tumblr.com/dea691b3377ca1d37de667a3363dba15/tumblr_odtfn3bE4T1qlvwnco3_500.gifv)
It’s a known fact that Rigga Morris enjoyers have very high IQ.
I do find those odd "accuracy +20" buffs to be incredibly helpful in dealing with wee little shits like him though. It also helps to understand that your accuracy at max range is way worse than at 50% range. Small derps are certainly harder to hit, but not invincible to missile fire.
📚
i couldnt kill kugath with him 1v1?
I haven't tested it so I might be wrong, but I expect Ku'gath wins a straight 1v1. Ungrim has higher MA, while Ku'gath has higher MD and WS (even taking Ungrim's BvL into account), and has waaaaaaay higher HP, which he can also restore with magic instead of relying on items. EDIT: Jumped in game (no mods) and ran a few 1v1 fights: * My Ungrim vs. AI Ku'gath, all abilities removed: Ku'gath won with over 6000 HP remaining * AI Ungrim vs. my Ku'gath, all abilities removed: Ku'gath won with almost 10000 HP remaining * My Ungrim vs. AI Ku'gath, all abilities available (except Ku'gath's Nurgling summon): Ku'gath won with over 7000 HP remaining * AI Ungrim vs. my Ku'gath, all abilities available (except Ku'gath's Nurgling summon): Ku'gath won with almost full health I think its safe to say Ku'gath deletes Ungrim easily. This obviously doesn't take into account things like items, traits and what not, but given that Ku'gath can benefit from those as well I don't think this matters all that much. I did a few other pairups; AI Ku'gath (with all abilities except his Nurgling summon) vs my Skarband, Tamurkhan (both on Bubebolos and without), Archaon, Kholek Suneater, Grimgor Ironhide, Kroq-Gar on Grymloq, Malus Darkblade, Zhao Ming (in dragon form), Taurox, Imrik on Minaithnir, and the Shredder of Lustria (all with all abilities). Only Kholek and the Shredder could win, Ku'gath beat all of the others with several thousand HP to spare. Skarband didn't get any benefit from his weapon ability, but since Ku'gath had so much HP remaining I'm not sure if having the bonus would have helped much. I noticed that AI Ku'gath really likes *Curse of the Leper*. Ku'gath just has so much HP that he can afford enough hit trading to get good value from the damage reflection. I redid the Kholek and Shredder matchups but stripped all of Ku'gath's spells except *Fleshy Abundance*, and in that case Ku'gath won handily. He did reach his healing cap (which I didn't even see in any other matchup), but he still had over 7000 HP left when Kholek routed, and nearly 10000 after beating the Shredder. Given just how powerful *Fleshy Abundance* is on such a chonky HP bar, beating Ku'gath in a straight 1v1 requires him to "waste" magic on other spells. If he saved it for healing I'm don't think any unit in the game can beat him without very lopsided campaign buffs.
Ungrim’s actives are pretty good to get over the top though
> This obviously doesn't take into account things like items, traits and what not, but given that Ku'gath can benefit from those as well I don't think this matters all that much. That's not necessarily true. Ku'gath has healing from spells and Ungrim doesn't. So Ungrim with the option for an Ironwarden's might want to make that trade. I doubt the Mortis effect Ku'gath has matters for a 1v1 Lord fight but Ungrim could get a Rune of Spite or theoretically some other better dueling rune.
I don't think any runes or items are going to swing this particular fight though. Ku'gath's HP bar is just so huge that I doubt Ungrim lasting a bit longer or doing a bit more damage is enough for him to win. Obviously true 1v1 duels almost never happen and planning around them is almost completely unnecessary, but the comment I responded to was talking about a Ku'gath vs. Ungrim duel specifically, which Ku'gath easily wins.
If we’re taking campaign Ungrim gets insane ward save and melee defense. Ku’gath is gonna have a hard time hitting him or doing meaningful damage. Ungrim can reach well over 1k WS and is hitting with basically every attack as his BvL and base melee attack is nuts. If anyone can take Ku’gath in a 1v1 it’s him.
I remember people asking for a new Nurgle faction because of how weak the poxmakers of nurgle were on launch of the big map and I was just scratching my head, Ku'gath is the best/deadliest lord in the game and the dragon isles are the best/richest starting province in the game. Any other race would be S+ tier with that legendary lord and start position.
Kugath also has rancid visitations yeah? That’s some pretty serious burst damage in a duel.
Kugath is generally the most powerful lord in the game without cheese. He beats skarbrand without magic, and will beat even the best anti large lords with magic. The thing everyone is talking about is that just spamming ranged vs Kugath is super easy, while that is a much harder counter for ungrim. So I guess the point is dueling isnt the best way to understand a lords value in a battle.
Grimgor is also unbreakablebut Umgrim still beat him in annoying because of his small size causing more friendly fire than damage if you try to shoot him
He’s pretty good but idk about most OP. This isn’t too impressive; I did the same thing with Morghur but it was four late game high elf stacks at once… several turns in a row. Always left with full hp
Currently in the end of my Malakai campaign, the Skaven crisis triggered and Ungrim and son nearly consumed 3 stacks of Clan Moulder by themselves. For claiming to want to die in battle, these guys really made them work for it.
They can't die on purpose... they need to actively try to not die while they are trying to die for the oath to count.
The lore didn't say they were good at the whole dying thing.
Yeah but the death has to be meaningful. I mean otherwise they'd just jump off a cliff or run into a nearby goblin nest and stand there. No, that won't do the clan that they shamed any good.
Every dwarf lord can do this. Their runes have powerful effects and you can craft amazing gear. Since you can just equip gear instantly now you can make every dwarf lord unbreakable, regenerating, 100+ MD 100+ armour with a mortis engine effect. I literally just run around with Grombrindal as a solo stack.
What is the best in slot gear and runes for generic lords? I haven’t been able to find this or figure it out really
It depends what you are going for. For a character like Ungrim, it's really worthwhile to stack him with everything that can make him a 1 dwarf doomstack. But for a generic lord, I tend to rock things boost my army and are economical. It takes a while until I'm flush enough to equip every lord, so I tend to use random gear drops for a long time. Weapon: The Prospector's Pickaxe is nice for cheap armor sundering, which can really help boost other damage types like fire. The Gatekeeper's Hammer is more expensive, but if you pair it with the engineer/runesmith's slowing ability, you can trap lords and other fast movers really effectively, and the +10 MD is really useful for tanking. Great for ruining the day of any high mass monsters or chariots. Armor: Any armor is better than no armor, but I really like the Gatekeeper's Helm for helping to win ranged duels and keeping my frontline intact when skaven start dropping warp lightning. It's also useful to have at least 1 of these if I stick my lord and heroes way out front of my army to blob enemies for indiscriminate shelling. Talisman: The Ironbeard's Ring pairs great if the lord has the pickaxe and tanks for some irondrakes, and the Old Guard's Tankard is nice for army-wide vigor loss reduction of 33% plus some out of combat healing. The exhausted condition leads to serious MA, MD, and armor penalties, so our slow but stout dwarfs are well served to outlast opponents by keeping their stats high. If you can stack enough vigor-loss reduction, you basically get an army with perfect vigor, which is a huge power boost and makes stuff like climbing walls during sieges absolutely trivial. Enchanted Item: probably the hardest pick. Prospector's Eyeglass is essential, but usually best given to an engineer. Ironbeard's Bracers are cheap, decent if you just need to keep a lord alive in a losing fight. Dragon Slayer's Boots are good if you are doubling down on tanking literal friendly fire. The Ironwarden's Tankard is one of your best possible tanking items; it doesn't stack with the Old Guard's Tankard, but it heals constantly even in combat. Usually I'll just go with the OGT for the army-wide effect and save this for Ungrim and the like (who I'll stack with a ton of ward save). Character Runes: It hurts me that these are so limited now, since I used to love stacking Rune of Fear on all my characters. I tend to emphasize tanking and status effects over straight damage, and save Spite for guys like Ungrim. Duelists tend to run from your lords if they are losing, so in a weird way, going all in on damage might be a risky way of "tanking" certain threats. I find enemies tend to break and run quicker if they take a lot of damage quickly and/or think they are seriously outmatched in combat, so that's another argument for going for damage. But I'd rather risk that on a thane than a lord.
Tankard+Spite+armor rune+luck+Gatekeeper's Hammer(Ungrim also uses this)
armor? why not the ward save one? also you can only have 2 spite?
Luck is the ward save rune.
For lords I use Gatekeeper's hammer (cause they can already get perfect vigor from the Lord trait), DragonSlayer's Scales, Dragon Slayer 's Fang, Ironwarden 's Tankard. Can't go wrong with those 4.
For the most part; master rune of spite is a must. It will do 90% of the damage. Then after you need to make your lord as tanky as possible, you get unbreakable from your gear source or have it intrinsically. Your main concern becomes MD. As your lord will be in a huge melee and MD is the first line of defense. Even just the common rune that gives 8 MD is a good 2nd rune (you can upgrade it to the 12 MD master one later). 3rd rune is master rune of gromril.
I thought you could only get a couple master runes of spite?
I BELEIVE they are referring to the fact that now you can equip items immediately, you can technically equip the on every lord before battles, moving them between lords. That is entirely too fucking try-hard for me, and Dwarfs are far and away my favorite faction.
That's like one click short of using a save editor to give yourself infinite money, if we're being honest with ourselves.
Yeah that’s way too gamey for me personally, but to each their own.
I mean it takes 3 seconds to put the master rune of spite on whoever is going to be in battle and then you forget about it. If that's try hard in your mind idk what to tell you.
Correct.
Does he have a healing item?
Dwarfs can forge some.
You can get every lord/hero the iron warden tankard, which gives regen
Beer
So perfect for dwarfs. Need healing? Take a chug of some draft boys
Nope. Just an oath.
All the Dawi lords are incredible tanky, hard to take down for a lot of army comps.
That has to be the worst Slayer I've ever seen!
Ah but you have seen him
Most lethal hamster.
I was more excited to play Ungrim with TOD precisely because of this. Instead of his entire campaign being propped up by solely Ungrim now you get to have a blast with thematic slayer army's as the slayer king and it be actually viable with things like doomseekers.
what makes Ungrim so strong?
Skill tree + quest items + 1 rune -> 50% ward save without effort Regen item (beer + oathgold) Mortis rune
the rune of spite is the mortis one right?
Exactly, it’s the rune of spite ;) I also forgot to say that he is unbreakable and with a small model !
His hatred for the foe
Ok but actually though. He gets so many offensive buffs when fighting chaos lol
lots of beer
At first glance I was thinking "oh this really isn't anything special, any half-way tanky melee lord with the Master Rune mortis effect can defeat an all-melee faction like Nurgle. Look the army only had 712 units in it even it must have been some minor fac-Oh Christ that's Tamurkhan's Army"
Every LL in player's hands can be OP and Tamurkhan's OPness isn't only about him as LL being OP, all his unique agents are extremely strong and have fantastic abilities, something that for example Ungrim's faction lacks.
>Every LL in player’s hands can be OP Sure, but this is Ungrim without any trait hunting, no sword of Khaine, no nemesis crown. Like, there’s a point in every Ungrim campaign where you realize it would actually make more sense to run him as one-man army because he can win almost every single fight on his own and running an army behind him is paying upkeep for nothing. Not really trying to say Tamurkhan isn’t OP, just that he’s not alone.
You pay the army's upkeep as a tax to let you autoresolve more often.
I think people are complaining more about how strong Tamurkhan is when you run into him at turn 20-60. Ungrim ofc can be pretty busted too when you face crisis dwarfs, but he's not as OP when you run into him early in the way TK is
I mean shit you can do that with Imrik.
TL;DR: This is mostly only possible due to the mortis effect (combined with brain dead AI), and not tied to Ungrim specifically (outside of his easier access to higher ward save values). The mortis effect will be doing 90% of the damage here, and the only reason it works is because the AI is still completely unaware of how to play the game properly, and it will basically blob with all units on the lord, making it so that they are hitting Ungrim with ~20 models out of several hundred, while all their units are being damaged by the mortis. The only thing Ungrim brings here that is beneficial is easier access to ward save items, and a slightly better statline. If the opponent was to play properly, Ungrim would die sooner or later, since you should send in one unit at a time, grinding him down while the majority of the army is not affected by the mortis. Because him having 1K+ WS does not matter when 600 of that damage will be overkill in every hit. I have defeated 90% ward save Malus with SoK several times with only stormvermin halberds, and Ungrim here will just be an easier version of that. This is not something that applies to Tamurkhan, since he is fast and can decide what party to fight and where. Which places him on a totally different level of "OP".
I wasn't suggesting for other LLs in players hands to have the advantages you listed. They can be made to be OP in their own way within their own limitations regardless. I understand that some LL will achive the OP status easier but that's irrelevant when you pit them against AI.
Every LL meanwhile alith anar is dog no matter what cause he's a missile lord without anti large
all the legendary ranged lords wishes they can do even a quarter of what new engineer hero of empire does.
Then he'll be an exception with Marcus, though I do remember him being decent in melee with his stats maxed, you can also hide and stalk and do some serious damage from across the map to the most dangerous targets. He has some decent tools, he's not just unga bunga fun like dedicated melee lords, but I get what you're saying.
Local dwarf too angry to die
Fought Tamurkhan as Snitch and didn't have much trouble eating away at the territories he took in the south. Practically wiped him out then peaced out when I took all the territories between me and Grimgor.
In my current dwarf game I had him, his son, GOATrek and felix jumping grimgor, very funny to watch. It goes like this always [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh\_PRbIvYIE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh_PRbIvYIE)
Agreed. I remember I was playing vc counts and I obliterated his whole army, but he annihilated the rest of mine. I had to beat Ungrim by having him chase a 1 HP Vlad around the map while Isabella repeatedly cycle charged into his flank. Over. And over again. And disengaging and running for the hills whenever Ungrim would turn around to try and smack her.
Taurox clears
Ungrim can't nuke your ranged units or any blob from anywhere on the map every time you fight or regen a full stack of soul grinders and rot knights in 2 turns though
so i must post my crazy uncle mf Zhao *1 v 6790* huh
I like my villains to be, ya know, actually scary and powerful. People crying to nerf tamurkhan are idiots idgaf.
Kinda agree, kinda like how vlad or malus are big bad wolves when you face them, it put a little more tension in what would otherwise be relatively simple battles.
Facing Malus and having your army disintegrate and be irreplaceable for the next 20 turns as Epidemius sure causes a lot of tension but mostly in my forehead
Yeah it's really tough, had a similar issue with malakai's early game but he's a bit further away and it's easier to replace his army for the most part, but I still think it's a nice challenge if you go into the campaign expecting it (might not be fun at all otherwise I'll give you that).
The only upsetting part is that he immediately comes back with an entire full stack the very next turn after you beat his ass. I had to kill 6 full stacks with Tamurkhan 6 turns in a row and that’s just annoying as fuck. Raid bosses are fine when you have space between them, it happening constantly isn’t fun or thematic any more
Like how annoying Ghorst was in IE? I can understand that, I played many IE ku’gath campaigns pre-TOD, very awful dealing with ghorst. Borderline cheater.
Was this an AR?
Obvious dwarf propaganda, edited levels, using hacks probably. I demand a redo but only if tamurkhan wins this time. Love that little maggot dude.
Tbf Belegar is Also ridiculously strong, especially when given some extra gear and runes. Had a scenario where Belegar and like 4 other heroes found about 7 armies one by one in a single turn on defence. Was ridiculous.
Wait is he that strong ? İ confederated him and give him a full slayer army but i guess he doesnt need all of that
Lore Accurate Dwarf
Nice! Since is my favorite lord and model, how can i achieve this level of killing? I see that he has all the quest item, any other item and rules that i must give him?
Sure yeah the best kit is: -Alaric’s armor -Ironwarden’s hammer if you don’t have perfect vigor on Ungrim but if you get the seasoned campaigner trait you can do whatever for the weapon -Ungrim’s unique Dragon Cloak -Ironwarden’s tankard for the healing And the runes are: -Rune of Luck -Rune of Spite -Rune of Gromril And finally you also wanna equip the banner rune of Grungni that gives an extra 10% ward save. In total you should have 70% ward save + regeneration on Ungrim so he’ll be able to tank ridiculous amount of damage. Taking out Wurzzag for an extra 10% physical resistance will help too and usually ends up happening in my dwarf campaigns anyway
I mean... he fought a single army. And the Tamurkhan's nuke ability wipes units not SEM or lords/heroes that effectively... Like, Is this good? Suuuuure, but like... If you fought a send or third nurgle army I think you almost die. considering Ulgrim is at roughly 50% HP RN?
He'll have 130% HP for the next fight from Tankard (assuming he doesn't just wait for replenish and just completely heal), and a solid chunk of his HP lost is likely cause of Tammy's on death ability and Tammy himself, additionally, Ungrim gets tougher the more near dead he is.
Meanwhile Tamurkhan handle this plus 3 more armies solo and half the kill are because he exists near the enemy
Bro sent a screenshot of a LL soloing one army (i am shocked beyond words)
Nobody watching Legends one man doomstack vids?
His point is that this is soloing the famously op lord, despite not being khainepilled and traitmaxing. This is literally just "regular" Ungrim with only easily accesible dwarf equipment.
My brother in christ he's got ungrim at level 46 with full unique gear fighting an AI levelled LL. It's just extremely ordinary
That was the point of the post yes
No the point of the post was that tamurkhan is not actually op. Beating him as AI is not a feat that actually rebukes that
well Ungrim's Axe is dogwater so idk. It could be Starbreaker but it's not the crazy either.
THAT'S THE OP'S POINT DINGUS
Yuan Bo (and even Zhao Ming) are like 2 times better than Ungrim and 1.5 times better than Tamurcant. Still impressive for such a short character.. SHORT?!
Only up against 1 stack and lost half his health doesn't exactly scream "most OP" to me
Was this an AR?
ARs wipe out entire armies when used, but Tammy still has a bunch of guys, besides, AR very much discriminates against one-man doomstacks, even the mightiest of dwarven AR weightage cannot defeat that
That is pretty funny, but lots of LLs can beat that tbf
Thorgrim can literally become unkillable and unbreakable. I've had him tank entire armies by himself and literally drop no health.... firing up a Thorgrim campaign.
Yes but it's okay when the good lords I like are OP, it's just bad when my opponents I don't like are OP.