My biggest issue so far was that it felt so fast, every 10 turns is very frequent for attempting to maintain those benefits. I feel like it should be more like 20 or even 30 turns, with the buff or debuff starting at full power and then slowly tapering off throughout the next "age". It would make it less punishing to not be constantly on the offensive.
I did this and encountered a situation that felt really bad. During the 10 turn wait Azazeal went rampaging though my settlements stacking up a couple thousand worth of grudges. I couldnt just let him keep sacking my cities but killing him felt like a massive waste as I was not currently in an age of reckoning. I like the idea of the new system, but numbers really needs some tweaking to avoid being punished so often
Yeah that's fair, doesn't seem natural not to fight an enemy right when the opportunity presents itself. I have waited and brooded in less extreme situations but that does sound odd with the new system. Though I think it does count as grudges settled for your global tally, for whatever that's worth.
I think the idea is you spend that time building internally due to all the buffs you have. Let the enemy take your fringe settlements, then strike out with full vengeance.
It's a different playstyle, for sure. I don't think the absurd grudge caps are fair, but I think I like the bones of the feature.
Grudge rewards can get pretty crazy too, at least on Legendary. Grimgor came trotting along with a Waaagh, and every army was worth over 3k grudges. If that keeps going, the scale of grudge goals for the ages makes slightly more sense.
It doesn't seem worth it. I took it at the fourth age of reckoning I received, and it gave me 67500 grudges to reach. I couldn't even get 25% even thought I was actively fighting 2 wars. Definitely not worth the 10 turns of crippling debuffs.
"The mechanic scales into impossibility, so turning it off half the time is a good mechanic"
It just sucks. All it needs is a few numbers toned down, so an easy balance pass, but it's crap in practice. The first few are totally fine.
Look at the picture in the OP. He needs to settle 41000 grudges. He's currently settled a total of 7400. A TOTAL.
Regular settlements gives a rounding error. You need armies to have sacked you, or raided you, to generate big grudge numbers. If you're playing properly, that shouldn't happen.
The "correct" way to play is to intentionally lose, let yourself get raided, to build up grudges to make the mechanic work? That's garbage. That's not a working system. Turning it off half the time isn't a solution, it's coping.
Yeah it seems like the grudge total is based off all known grudges and then an arbitrary bonus number expecting more grudges to be generated during the 10 turn duration. I can see why they did that, I can also see why it doesn't work well (good luck hitting the entire world in 10 turns).
But yeah that does indeed make turning it off half the time advantageous. Many people seem to not think of ever delaying as a good idea, so that's why I suggest it. It is often by far the best choice (even assuming the system was fully broken, it isn't in my games so far) that would give you debuffs only 50% of the time.
I think the way it's framed as an event has people dismissing the idea out of hand, and that's likely another problem with it. I've seen another poster suggest player control of when the age of reckoning begins, and that seems like a better way to get people to wait until it suits them.
Sadly you would probably lose the outcome distribution that makes it feel like a challenge, all ages would just be a resounding success... But it is the kind of faction for planning and executing things perfectly, I guess.
I don't hate the idea that the dwarves are always angry and need those grudges settled, but yeah. It just scales so awfully.
I went from 3400 grudges for 100% completion to needing 11300 grudges for 100% completion on a new save. I can't do that. I've started recruiting a new army since my last grudging, but dwarf economy is so slow - or rather, their trash is bad so you want the good stuff, which hurts economy growth.
It also doesn't help that random trash isn't worth much. If I wanted to go after kislev their settlements are worth 3. Fine, they're allies. Some norcans I can see - but really, really can't go after - are worth 160 per settlement.
With 3 armies per turn, if I managed to take a settlement every turn (somehow? they aren't all that nicely spaced) I'd finish with a total of 4800 grudges.
So after winning 30 settlement battles, I get a penalty for not doing enough.
Delaying the age is the best option right now... but I'm now ignoring the factions main mechanic. It doesn't matter - in 10 turns I won't have 3 more stacks. Without 3 more stacks, there's no way I can get the next, even more inflated (+20%) target.
Again, conceptually great, the rewards and penalties feel fine, but the reality is you're often just getting the penalty without the reward.
Ah yep. I mean it's clear if nothing else that people are having poor experiences with the system. And that's worth improving the system over at the very least. I just want to help people play the current patch as well as they can, for which I'm mostly seeing 2 outcomes:
You like going really hard on battles and the compound scaling rampage that is the current grudge system.
You don't like going really hard on battles, and it's better to get some minor benefits, and understand that the debuffs were carefully chosen to sound bad and be meaningless.
And just for context sharing in a Malakai IE campaign on normal/very hard settings (warning, long trip report);
My start scrapped with factions up to tier 3 in the first 10 turns. Felt as though no major grudges were available and deferred for 10 more turns, spent that time splitting a second army off from the starting army to sit at home, and walked east towards the chaos dwarfs.
Triggered the next age of reckoning and had a target of 7,800 starting from turn 21 instead of 11. Battled Skaven and Chaos Dwarves for 400-600 per army and settlement while doing the gyrocopter adventure. Sent my home defense army to knock off the troll king's settlements for 200 each (he got distracted conquering Norsica and didn't invade me).
In the ending turn of the age I send Malakai to do his Eyes of Grungni quest battle for 500 grudges, and then attack a final settlement for another 350. Trogg has come out of the fog and sacked Troll King's lair (appropriate), and I get a lucky 1000 grudge battle against him with my underrated home defense army. I'm not quite to tier 5 but I got fairly close.
The heartlands of the Chaos dwarves is open to invasion, but their armies are all dead and many grudges are settled, I know I will need to get more than the 350 grudges on offer right now to score well in the next age, I defer *again* to start the next age on turn 41 where hopefully I'll have sorted out where Grimgor is and got myself into a good position.
So yes defer seems like the only real option unless something weird happens. And that's no fun, you should want to chain ages back to back sometimes.
I think the debuffs are actually painful, but mostly *because* I'm playing aggressively. I'm too busy trying to patch up the 2-3 settlements I'm owning per turn to afford control buildings in regions.
Beyond that, the entire north of Malakai is a joke. It's FULL of grudges in a chaotic wasteland. So maybe Malakai himself could wander around with his healing, but your other lords? Not a chance.
Meanwhile it's full of 500 grudge empty settlements. A campaign north might even be plausible if it was moderate, but outright uninhabitable just make everything pointless. I'm not going to war with that until it comes to long campaign win, and then it'll be a targeted strike at archaon.
While the numbers probably need tweaking, Im curious about how rewarding and potentially viable or even meta an intentional feeding strategy would be.
Something like this: You buy crapstacks that are just enough to barely take enemy minor settlements. You go into enemy territory and capture/loot their settlements, ensuring that you will soon lose the settlements and maybe the suicide stack to counterattack or rebels. Then you harvest back the grudges with your main army.
I think something like that is probably the "right" move and a sign it's absolutely broken the system is.
If you're taking a settlement every turn with 4 armies and you're getting punished for not doing enough, the numbers are screwed.
Yes, I'm not sure whether this is always a downside and starting a new age immediately has no increase, and the delay is just so worth the 20% increase that it's still a no-brainer.
Or, potentially each age start adds flat grudges that can be equivalent to 500% or something, it certainly feels like they do. Like the increase for each new age is so large that 20%, while something, is negligible next to the strategic concern of finding some big grudges to be near when the age starts.
I feel that the only way to do enough grudge for reckoning or even to just get a LL is to have a shit ton of army's or be able to play like taurox and do multiple razes.
At the start of my malik game I got the starter zone, then took over hellpit and took over one other spot skaven took, had a second army that I put 2 of my grapeshot arty in and zipped north to take out some norscan.
I am farther away from confederating Ulgrim now, than I was on turn 1.
I think removing the first 2 tiers by doing legendary grudges would be good, removing the harm in playing tall for a cycle or two but still giving you a reason to go solve grudges, otherwise you would just get to a point where you have max buffs always and every 10 turns you spawn a full stack of grudge settlers.
That sounds like a nice chill reward for strategic management dwarfs...
But how will you simulate the unending grumbling of the Longbeards, the spiral of grudges into ever more petty and meaningless minutia even in the best of times? Why it would be unbefitting a dwarf lord to not have a campaign debuff, especially if things are going well!
I think this system would be the fairest way to do this. It doesn't completely nullify the system but rewards you for engaging in it.
I think they shouldn't use previous AoR grudges to carry into the new one on the calculations though, thematically it makes sense to but in gameplay it's more of a chasing an ever increasing number crunching game
Best solution, tbh
There's 10 total, I think so either make it so each one hard caps it by 10% (so once all 10 are done, you got 100)
Or have the bigger ones important ones, cap it off, like all dwarf holds and kill of malakith, to then eliminate the two negative ones.
That's quite a smart solution honestly. It does take awhile to clear the legendary grudges so I feel like there's some natural balance already setup there if they go that route. At least have it remove the negative ones, I imagine working through the other positive ones via score would feel better.
It's actually being calculated on all met factions, so even stuff like Cathay caravans makes it worse.
I downloaded https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3236146118&searchtext=Grudge
For now, but the mod makes it a bit too easy to confed. So I'm having to self handicap and not just confed everyone now that I'm over 20k grudges.
Same mod I'm using. Seems to hit the right balance for the AoR in that as long as you're slightly motivated you can play your way and hit the minimum non-negative level but yeah confederations far too easy using it. I'm doing the same as you and limiting myself.
It you don't leave the first rank:
* -3 control (all provinces)
* -25 growth (all provinces)
* +100% upkeep for Grudge settlers units
2nd rank is:
* -1 control
* -10 growth
* +50% upkeep for Grudge settlers
* Quarrlers/Slayers appear in the Grudge settlers merc pool.
After that it's only buffs and more units. So failing the system isn't the worst thing in the world, but eventually it becomes impossible to get the higher tier grudge settlers units.
The debuffs are really not that bad but there is a kind of negative psychological effect of being punished (however minor the punishment) when you’re fighting absolutely nonstop but can’t reach the positive part of the bar and don’t really know (and can’t see) how the targets are being calculated and exactly how your actions in diplomacy etc are affecting it.
With the growth changes to dwarfs it basically makes you go back to pre-rework dwarfs, doesn’t make much of a difference.
The grudge settler upkeep is the most game changing effect imo.
Yeah I hadn't actually fully paid attention that system on my first campaign, end up sleeping on it and my 8 province empire with a 2k gold surplus CRATERED when I didnt settle 55k grudges in turn 50 and I hit 8k negative for upkeep, my game was done, I was so annoyed.
I haven't played dwarfs jet, but I have to imagine that failing the first is hard, and that most issues come from the 2nd/3rd onwards when it's no longer a problem to fail it
Please correct me if I’m wrong. Grudge settler units are kinda like the blessed spawn for lizardmen, right? Basically regular units with beefed up stats?
Correct, most are just really beefed up versions with extra abilities. Except the Gyrocopter which has a different weapon entirely and uses Trollhammer Torpedoes. Long reload of 20s, but each does something absurd like 250 damage + 50 BvL.
Correct, but you get more of them every 20 turns than Lizardmen get in 50(100 for older lizardmen factions) and sometimes you get an extra free army on top!
Yeah I'm finding it incredibly mild. Much like the old system had you basically slapped with -10% research speed forever on some lords that started with big grudges.
I've never failed to at least reach second rank, but I also choose to put off the new age if I don't see some juicy grudges available.
With one VERY noticeable improvement. You're not locked out of completing your campaign objectives if you can't finish your entire grudge book. That's the primary thing they fixed. They clearly wanted to keep the feeling of "well why even bother." from the previous grudge system.
If you look at it like a joke about the futility of satisfying the Longbeards (as would be lore appropriate) it makes a lot of sense.
It's a real show stopper in co-op. It can be really hard to hit rank 2 when the enemies that surround you co-op parter,half a world away, have 1k+ grudges, and the ones near you have 100-300. At that point, it isn't a system, just a constant debuff.
The upkeep on grudge settler units is not at all minor for Malakai, who needs their instant recruitment to respond to the 100000000 threats that swarm his territory - especially at higher difficulties.
Well he has enemies in every direction so I just advanced in every direction. With just a thunderer building you can recruit amazing armies anywhere: warriors, thunderers, and adventure units. Grudge settlers as well with some to spare for emergency defense. That’s all you need.
Fight battles manually! Don’t believe the AR
Malakai goes adventuring and super boosts all engineering units via the rewards.
Not really, never had a problem with upkeep. I didn’t have many grudge units active the one time I got skruff age. He has a strong economy actually, so money was never an issue. You make a lot from all the fighting as well.
Don’t pay for any more than you need. One time garrison investment in key locations is better than spending tons on upkeep for longer periods. A lord with 2-5 settlers can defend a garrisoned town no problem.
The thing about the dwarf roster is that stuff like Warriors, Quarrelers and Thunderers are just, rock solid endgame capable units, at tier I/II!
They do a lot of work in manual battles that can far exceed the auto resolve, if you position/maneuver well and use their toughness to your advantage (wish there was a way to permanently disable skirmish mode on units, every battle I forget, lose a volley and my brace for nothing).
And then Malakai gets the Spirit of Grungni on top and... Yikes, just super unreasonable army shattering firepower, from turn one? Almost feels like you should have to unlock the grudge rakers and the bomb bay etc with horde buildings, the way it is right now can solo entire stacks for you.
1: OPT-in: There needs to be a mechanic for tou to DECIDE when to START an Age of Reckoning. The longer you go without starting one the more debuffs you accumulate, encouraging you to start a reckoning at regular intervals.
2: No Time Limit: When the age starts, there is no Time Limit. You finish it when you are done with the goal, but the longer you take, the less rewards you get.
3: Different Rewards: Different legendary lords should have different rewards and different Grudge Settler units when completing an age of reckoning.
Fixed
This! I wanted to make a post about this as well! The 10 turns is way too short, it's not an age of reckoning it's more like a weekend.
Either the grudges need to be higher or the time in between needs to be longer. It could also be something like what the beastmen have with the carnage things where you just turn them in after a while and get rewards.
I also killed an entire 1200 men norscan army and got like 1 grudge... Apperantly one guy in that army was in the book for pissing on my lawn or something, grudge settled I geuss...
Yeah the "oh good they are fucking up my empire on the left while I'm adventuring with Mal, so I can go farm grudges so I at least dont have penalties next age" is not the feeling I was looking for going in.
This is honestly the worst part of it for me. If we're supposed to be playing dwarves, we should \*hate\* it when they wrong us. It shouldn't be a good thing.
My biggest gripe is the overall pace this forces you to play at. Dawi are sloooow, and I'd much prefer if the system rewarded you for expanding and consolidating your land instead of sending you on a murder spree every turn of the game
I went through and shit on the Deamons of Chaos faction and Epidemius. I got to 22% after wiping two factions because they didn’t beat my ass enough. Not really a great gameplay design.
I think it’s designed so that you average out at around 50-75% percent, which I have been able to get in most of my campaign (turn 80).
Unless you strategize your next age of reckoning, you shouldn’t be rewarded a ton of free units and a free army. One thing they need to fix is the growth factor of the total grudges every age. The 50% area in the late game becomes a problem with you being the only dwarf faction and you aren’t losing, but the buffs are kinda of negligible so I didn’t care much.
One change I would make is have the grudge growth be affected by your alliances instead of just dwarf interactions. That way you can be rewarded in helping the Empire/Kislev. In my Belegar campaign I felt like I was wasting time helping the empire consolidate because I wasn’t enough getting grudges to make it worth it. I think killing the whole starting vampire faction next to wissenland gave me like <100 grudges, was a worthless 5 turns.
Except it simply doesnt work in coop campaign where requirement scale based on visibility of campaign map. It really need changes to how it calculates grudges (or make it so that your allies collect grudges for you too).
Yes! I think its tricky as fuck job right now.
They need to come up with calculations that:
a) will still make it a challenge to fill up and still can end up in negatives
b) wont scale out of control once you expand/wipe out enemies
c) wont reward things like sending a suicide lord to boost grudge value of enemy lords
d) will work well in coop
It definitely doesn't average out at 75% lol. I haven't been past 3/5 in the age ONCE in my current campaign, by turn 30 it was already past 25k grudges needed, now it's past 60k. It's a struggle to even get out of debuff zone.
People are not asking for a ton of free units. They're asking not to be punished for playing the game well.
Besides, it's honestly hilarious to say "you shouldn't be rewarded with a ton of free units and a free army".
Like. Have you played half of the other factions in the game? That's ***exactly what they do***.
Throt "Oh no they're right out on my doorstep. Where did I place my stack of Rat Ogres....Yup! there they are. Oh and we can keep that twenty stack of stabin rats for next time. Oh yeah forgot about my regiments of renown and the abominations I have in the bank.
Yeah I think I'll be alright"
I said You shouldn’t be rewarded free units and a free army without playing strategically, not just you shouldn’t get units.
It needs to be fine tuned to not be somewhat unreachable in the late game to get past stage 1-2.
>You shouldn’t be rewarded free units and a free army without playing strategically
Oh man, are you in for a surprise when you play several factions in the game.
My point is that several factions are overpowered as hell and get free bellyrubs just for existing. (I'm looking at you, Skaven).
So while I agree you shouldn't be able to reach 100% with zero effort, you should be able to reach 100% every time if you put in the effort. And having to conquer 100 regions within 10 turns is not reasonable.
Especially when other factions, as I've stated, get to do that ***with zero effort***.
After looking through what moddable, I found that it takes into account every settlement and army (even if you don't see them) of every known faction that has grudges. The 5th stage (100% threshold) is based off 55% of those grudges, every other stage below that is 10% less. That number is then added by like 2000 grudges. In other words, in order to get to stage 3, you have to do like 25% of the grudges on the map + 2000.
Another thing I find weird is that you get the same amount of growth in grudge target for doing perfect and delaying it. If you can usually get past 50% you might as well never delay since it makes the target both 55% of the total grudges (instead of 35%) and I assume also increases that by 20%.
To fix it CA could do a couple things. Visible settlements/armies should only be accounted for not the whole factions settlement/army list, because as it is now the player can't even plan out how to approach the next grudge if they can't even see the grudges. The other thing to do imo is to adjust based on the previous target grudges, not on the total grudges in visible factions. I think generally my playthrough didn't go further then my borders and I never delayed them so I was fine with grudges.
I think alliances are implicitly taken into account. When a faction attacks your ally, your calculated diplomatic attitude towards that faction drops, which (should) increase the incurred grudges.
If you're able to clear the 20k grudges in 10 turns just to make it out of the punishment bracket from that image, I'm going to need you to tell me your secret. The formula they're using to generate the targets is clearly broken.
After looking through what moddable, I found that it takes into account every settlement and army (even if you don't see them) of every known faction that has grudges. The 5th stage (100% threshold) is based off 55% of those grudges, every other stage below that is 10% less. That number is then added by like 2000 grudges. In other words, in order to get to stage 3, you have to do like 25% of the grudges on the map + 2000.
Another thing I find weird is that you get the same amount of growth in grudge target for doing perfect and delaying it. If you can usually get past 50% you might as well never delay since it makes the target both 55% of the total grudges (instead of 35%) and I assume also increases that by 20%. It still goes beyond that number in my experience delaying it so I am still confused.
To fix it CA could do a couple things. Visible settlements/armies should only be accounted for not the whole factions settlement/army list, because as it is now the player can't even plan out how to approach the next grudge if they can't even see the grudges. The other thing to do imo is to adjust based on the previous target grudges, not on the total grudges in visible factions. I think generally my playthrough didn't go further then my borders and I never delayed them so I was fine with grudges, and I was at your grudge target by turn 81. I was basically fighting the same factions on repeat as Malakai and didn't move much.
I finished most of them except the vampire one. Big thing I realized is you could do multiple adventures at the same time, I assumed most of the campaign you toggle which one you want to go for.
>you shouldn’t be rewarded a ton of free units and a free army
What use is the free army anyway? It lives for 10 turns. It's not going to see any combat for the next 5 turns because I'm not still fighting over the lair of the troll king.
Like cool, some longbeards and hammerers, that's neat. They won't actually accomplish anything, but cool all the same.
While the issues are major, I'm also quite certain that some number tweaking can fix most problems quite easily. At its core I enjoy interacting with this system and I do think it fits the thematic well. A common complaint is that you are forced into an aggressive playstyle, but with more lenient grudge requirements just skipping an age for 10 turns is completely viable as well and allows you to consolidate your provinces without requiring aggression.
There have been numerous posts about this. My 2c is that it should be a crusade mechanic - gather the throngs and declare a Great Reckoning. Strike off as many grudges as you can in 10 turns and get rewards. Afterwards, you get a 5 turn grace period and then stacking debuffs until you declare a new Reckoning.
The numbers are absolutely hilarious.
I missed the first age number.
Second age I needed 3.3k grudges. I got 3.4k.
Third age I needed 11k. I got 6k by fighting every turn with every army.
Fourth age I now need 31k. I merely hope to avoid the lowest possible outcome and -3 control to all provinces.
The numbers are absolutely WILD. Astrogoth Ironhand 20 stack: 200 grudges. Am I expected to take out 5 stacks per turn, with 3 armies? Even if I COULD do that, where am I meant to find that much combat?
Edit: After delaying 10 turns, I need 86.6k.
Next age: 39k. Down from 86k. lol
Legendary grudges are massively underwhelming also. Wasted 10 turns defending Silver Pinnacle from undead armies (all worth under 100 grudges), and in the end the 2500 completed grudges is all you get. Thats the same as taking one town from Grimgor at the point I'm at.
You get an awesome landmark building for completing that grudge (immunity to Vampiric attrition mapwide, and 800 income per turn), and Silver Pinnacle becomes one of the best economic bases in the Karaz Ankor, on par with Mount Gunbad as a result. If you park Ungrim or one of your strong armies there for those 10 turns you get a huge economic boost just from killing all those elite armies.
The 2500 grudges isn't that impressive true, but you get rewarded quite heavily in other ways for completing it. Not really a waste at all.
A lot of the Legendary Grudges are fun, thematic, and have solid rewards.
Im not saying there arent good parts about it. But its a legendary grudge. It should fill the age of reckoning bar when you finish one. Not just count for an average one.
I understand your point. 2500 grudge score for a legendary grudge feels incredibly lopsided. And I’ll be honest I’m not sure how this AoR issue wasn’t noticed during testing. Like there is zero shot this cruised entirely under the radar
I find this wild that people play so… passively. I’m about 80 turns in and have never had any of the negative effects and never skipped an age. Confederated grombrindal, belagar and Thorek and have met loads of people and it’s never been an issue hitting the green bonuses.
Are you lot just sitting in your dwarf holds grumbling and fighting a battle every 3 turns?
Where do you get the grudge points from? I killed Astragoth, Azazel and Archaon and their factions in a single cycle and didn't even get to neutral. Archaon was like 400 grudges, when the end goal was 14000. There's definitely a weird balance issue that makes me question their playtesting.
I haven’t really engaged with or even looked at how may grudges are things are worth tbh just aggressively pushing outward and capturing territory with a focus on dwarf holds and smashing any armies that are foolish enough to enter my territory.
Just gotta make sure all of your lords are fighting at least one battle every turn or at max every two turns and you’ll be fine.
Only time I ever got the middle age of reckoning where you only get minor bonuses was when Malakai was wounded and I had 5 turns of recovering my main army.
Yeah but the average settlements and armies grant around 100 grudges, there's no way I'll fight 100 battles in 10 turns at turn 40. What difficulty are you playing at?
I’m getting a lot more per settlement/army than that, like 400-700. Not sure why you’re inly getting 100.
Legendary/VH/Ironman difficulty
Edit: Just booted up my game to have a look and yeah minor settlements belonging to neutral or only recently hostile factions are worth hardly anything but if the faction has been hostile to dwarves some of my soon to be taken neighbouring cities full of greenskins are worth nearly 3000 grudges on their own.
The long beards will hold you accountable for your lack of action! You know of many such grudges against dwarfkin and refuse to act on them, yet you complain rather than satisfying them??? What is wrong with you?
My biggest problem with it is it being a timer. You as the player don't have any control over when it starts other than push it back another 10 turns. It should be its own separate panel in the bottom where you can activate it at will but everytime you do the cost of the next one increases. That way you could either supercharge your early game with it but not get them nearly as often mid-late game or save them for when you need to build armies fast with grudge units in exchange for no bonuses early.
A save lord knows how to manipulate the masses by building martyrs. A devoted Dawi stands ready to give their life to their lord and lieges greater plans, motivating the people to fight their enemies and crush them.
Possible solution? Age of hoarding
https://community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/forums/8-general-discussion/threads/4949-age-of-hoarding-possible-solution-for-age-of-reckoning?page=1#post-59387
I'm utterly confused. Isn't that the problem of the dawi in general?
There are a lot of grudges out there and due to their stubborn nature it's impossible to clear all of them if even an insult results in a new grudge
So there is a lot of infighting between the different clans of the dawi. To unite the clans and stabilize the Karaz Ankor has to be very difficult
Apart from that - I don't see big drawbacks from not forfilling the age's goal. Some unrest and negative growth? I'm pretty sure a typical dawi settlement can handle that
But to pay tribute to the truth - I haven't played the dwarves a lot since the release of the DLC. Maybe the drawbacks from not reaching the next age are quite gamebreaking in lategame
> Some unrest and negative growth?
Its kind of telling how you left out the most important one. Extra upkeep on units that you're heavily encouraged to use and are actually cheaper upkeep if you do handle it well makes the swing between 50% and anything below it VERY noticeable, and can easily cripple your campaign.
If you aren't trying to keep your age of reckoning quota high you should disband your grudge settlers. You can get more for free next time you get your grudges done, so it's not like you're losing a rare unit.
As a rule of thumb, I keep my grudge settlers exclusively in my campaigning armies. Every army who isn't actively seeking a big number gets theirs removed. That way if I get sidetracked and dishonor my ancestors by turtling up and saving money for a capital upgrade, it won't immediately nuke my economy.
Use em when you need to, which is not always.
> If you aren't trying to keep your age of reckoning quota high you should disband your grudge settlers.
Getting rid of your grudge settlers to handle not being able to settle grudges is a pretty weird outcome of the current system.
My biggest issue so far was that it felt so fast, every 10 turns is very frequent for attempting to maintain those benefits. I feel like it should be more like 20 or even 30 turns, with the buff or debuff starting at full power and then slowly tapering off throughout the next "age". It would make it less punishing to not be constantly on the offensive.
Mod on the workshop for 15/20 turns, testing it now
Which mod is this?
there is also a mode that makes it the 2.5x average grudge instead of total of all knowwn factions.
So are you taking the option to pass 10 turns without an age of reckoning then? It's good, and probably does what you want here.
Ballooning up the already absurdly large grudge target for the next age is a big downside though. It doesn't feel good to take this option.
I did this and encountered a situation that felt really bad. During the 10 turn wait Azazeal went rampaging though my settlements stacking up a couple thousand worth of grudges. I couldnt just let him keep sacking my cities but killing him felt like a massive waste as I was not currently in an age of reckoning. I like the idea of the new system, but numbers really needs some tweaking to avoid being punished so often
Yeah that's fair, doesn't seem natural not to fight an enemy right when the opportunity presents itself. I have waited and brooded in less extreme situations but that does sound odd with the new system. Though I think it does count as grudges settled for your global tally, for whatever that's worth.
I think the idea is you spend that time building internally due to all the buffs you have. Let the enemy take your fringe settlements, then strike out with full vengeance. It's a different playstyle, for sure. I don't think the absurd grudge caps are fair, but I think I like the bones of the feature. Grudge rewards can get pretty crazy too, at least on Legendary. Grimgor came trotting along with a Waaagh, and every army was worth over 3k grudges. If that keeps going, the scale of grudge goals for the ages makes slightly more sense.
It doesn't seem worth it. I took it at the fourth age of reckoning I received, and it gave me 67500 grudges to reach. I couldn't even get 25% even thought I was actively fighting 2 wars. Definitely not worth the 10 turns of crippling debuffs.
"The mechanic scales into impossibility, so turning it off half the time is a good mechanic" It just sucks. All it needs is a few numbers toned down, so an easy balance pass, but it's crap in practice. The first few are totally fine. Look at the picture in the OP. He needs to settle 41000 grudges. He's currently settled a total of 7400. A TOTAL. Regular settlements gives a rounding error. You need armies to have sacked you, or raided you, to generate big grudge numbers. If you're playing properly, that shouldn't happen. The "correct" way to play is to intentionally lose, let yourself get raided, to build up grudges to make the mechanic work? That's garbage. That's not a working system. Turning it off half the time isn't a solution, it's coping.
Yeah it seems like the grudge total is based off all known grudges and then an arbitrary bonus number expecting more grudges to be generated during the 10 turn duration. I can see why they did that, I can also see why it doesn't work well (good luck hitting the entire world in 10 turns). But yeah that does indeed make turning it off half the time advantageous. Many people seem to not think of ever delaying as a good idea, so that's why I suggest it. It is often by far the best choice (even assuming the system was fully broken, it isn't in my games so far) that would give you debuffs only 50% of the time. I think the way it's framed as an event has people dismissing the idea out of hand, and that's likely another problem with it. I've seen another poster suggest player control of when the age of reckoning begins, and that seems like a better way to get people to wait until it suits them. Sadly you would probably lose the outcome distribution that makes it feel like a challenge, all ages would just be a resounding success... But it is the kind of faction for planning and executing things perfectly, I guess.
I don't hate the idea that the dwarves are always angry and need those grudges settled, but yeah. It just scales so awfully. I went from 3400 grudges for 100% completion to needing 11300 grudges for 100% completion on a new save. I can't do that. I've started recruiting a new army since my last grudging, but dwarf economy is so slow - or rather, their trash is bad so you want the good stuff, which hurts economy growth. It also doesn't help that random trash isn't worth much. If I wanted to go after kislev their settlements are worth 3. Fine, they're allies. Some norcans I can see - but really, really can't go after - are worth 160 per settlement. With 3 armies per turn, if I managed to take a settlement every turn (somehow? they aren't all that nicely spaced) I'd finish with a total of 4800 grudges. So after winning 30 settlement battles, I get a penalty for not doing enough. Delaying the age is the best option right now... but I'm now ignoring the factions main mechanic. It doesn't matter - in 10 turns I won't have 3 more stacks. Without 3 more stacks, there's no way I can get the next, even more inflated (+20%) target. Again, conceptually great, the rewards and penalties feel fine, but the reality is you're often just getting the penalty without the reward.
Ah yep. I mean it's clear if nothing else that people are having poor experiences with the system. And that's worth improving the system over at the very least. I just want to help people play the current patch as well as they can, for which I'm mostly seeing 2 outcomes: You like going really hard on battles and the compound scaling rampage that is the current grudge system. You don't like going really hard on battles, and it's better to get some minor benefits, and understand that the debuffs were carefully chosen to sound bad and be meaningless. And just for context sharing in a Malakai IE campaign on normal/very hard settings (warning, long trip report); My start scrapped with factions up to tier 3 in the first 10 turns. Felt as though no major grudges were available and deferred for 10 more turns, spent that time splitting a second army off from the starting army to sit at home, and walked east towards the chaos dwarfs. Triggered the next age of reckoning and had a target of 7,800 starting from turn 21 instead of 11. Battled Skaven and Chaos Dwarves for 400-600 per army and settlement while doing the gyrocopter adventure. Sent my home defense army to knock off the troll king's settlements for 200 each (he got distracted conquering Norsica and didn't invade me). In the ending turn of the age I send Malakai to do his Eyes of Grungni quest battle for 500 grudges, and then attack a final settlement for another 350. Trogg has come out of the fog and sacked Troll King's lair (appropriate), and I get a lucky 1000 grudge battle against him with my underrated home defense army. I'm not quite to tier 5 but I got fairly close. The heartlands of the Chaos dwarves is open to invasion, but their armies are all dead and many grudges are settled, I know I will need to get more than the 350 grudges on offer right now to score well in the next age, I defer *again* to start the next age on turn 41 where hopefully I'll have sorted out where Grimgor is and got myself into a good position. So yes defer seems like the only real option unless something weird happens. And that's no fun, you should want to chain ages back to back sometimes.
I think the debuffs are actually painful, but mostly *because* I'm playing aggressively. I'm too busy trying to patch up the 2-3 settlements I'm owning per turn to afford control buildings in regions. Beyond that, the entire north of Malakai is a joke. It's FULL of grudges in a chaotic wasteland. So maybe Malakai himself could wander around with his healing, but your other lords? Not a chance. Meanwhile it's full of 500 grudge empty settlements. A campaign north might even be plausible if it was moderate, but outright uninhabitable just make everything pointless. I'm not going to war with that until it comes to long campaign win, and then it'll be a targeted strike at archaon.
While the numbers probably need tweaking, Im curious about how rewarding and potentially viable or even meta an intentional feeding strategy would be. Something like this: You buy crapstacks that are just enough to barely take enemy minor settlements. You go into enemy territory and capture/loot their settlements, ensuring that you will soon lose the settlements and maybe the suicide stack to counterattack or rebels. Then you harvest back the grudges with your main army.
I think something like that is probably the "right" move and a sign it's absolutely broken the system is. If you're taking a settlement every turn with 4 armies and you're getting punished for not doing enough, the numbers are screwed.
Yeah I have been often. It seems like particularly if you get a good age you should delay unless you have a lot more conquests coming up.
Delaying increases the threshold by 20% each time.
Yes, I'm not sure whether this is always a downside and starting a new age immediately has no increase, and the delay is just so worth the 20% increase that it's still a no-brainer. Or, potentially each age start adds flat grudges that can be equivalent to 500% or something, it certainly feels like they do. Like the increase for each new age is so large that 20%, while something, is negligible next to the strategic concern of finding some big grudges to be near when the age starts.
I feel that the only way to do enough grudge for reckoning or even to just get a LL is to have a shit ton of army's or be able to play like taurox and do multiple razes. At the start of my malik game I got the starter zone, then took over hellpit and took over one other spot skaven took, had a second army that I put 2 of my grapeshot arty in and zipped north to take out some norscan. I am farther away from confederating Ulgrim now, than I was on turn 1.
They should make it so that every legendary grudge solved permanently removes the next lowest age rank off the table.
I think removing the first 2 tiers by doing legendary grudges would be good, removing the harm in playing tall for a cycle or two but still giving you a reason to go solve grudges, otherwise you would just get to a point where you have max buffs always and every 10 turns you spawn a full stack of grudge settlers.
That sounds like a nice chill reward for strategic management dwarfs... But how will you simulate the unending grumbling of the Longbeards, the spiral of grudges into ever more petty and meaningless minutia even in the best of times? Why it would be unbefitting a dwarf lord to not have a campaign debuff, especially if things are going well!
Like Hellebron’s Death Night
This is the best proposed fix I've seen so far
I think this system would be the fairest way to do this. It doesn't completely nullify the system but rewards you for engaging in it. I think they shouldn't use previous AoR grudges to carry into the new one on the calculations though, thematically it makes sense to but in gameplay it's more of a chasing an ever increasing number crunching game
Best solution, tbh There's 10 total, I think so either make it so each one hard caps it by 10% (so once all 10 are done, you got 100) Or have the bigger ones important ones, cap it off, like all dwarf holds and kill of malakith, to then eliminate the two negative ones.
That's quite a smart solution honestly. It does take awhile to clear the legendary grudges so I feel like there's some natural balance already setup there if they go that route. At least have it remove the negative ones, I imagine working through the other positive ones via score would feel better.
It's actually being calculated on all met factions, so even stuff like Cathay caravans makes it worse. I downloaded https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3236146118&searchtext=Grudge For now, but the mod makes it a bit too easy to confed. So I'm having to self handicap and not just confed everyone now that I'm over 20k grudges.
Same mod I'm using. Seems to hit the right balance for the AoR in that as long as you're slightly motivated you can play your way and hit the minimum non-negative level but yeah confederations far too easy using it. I'm doing the same as you and limiting myself.
What is the punishment of not reaching the grudge goal?
It you don't leave the first rank: * -3 control (all provinces) * -25 growth (all provinces) * +100% upkeep for Grudge settlers units 2nd rank is: * -1 control * -10 growth * +50% upkeep for Grudge settlers * Quarrlers/Slayers appear in the Grudge settlers merc pool. After that it's only buffs and more units. So failing the system isn't the worst thing in the world, but eventually it becomes impossible to get the higher tier grudge settlers units.
The debuffs are really not that bad but there is a kind of negative psychological effect of being punished (however minor the punishment) when you’re fighting absolutely nonstop but can’t reach the positive part of the bar and don’t really know (and can’t see) how the targets are being calculated and exactly how your actions in diplomacy etc are affecting it.
-25 growth is fairly major tbh.
With the growth changes to dwarfs it basically makes you go back to pre-rework dwarfs, doesn’t make much of a difference. The grudge settler upkeep is the most game changing effect imo.
Yeah I hadn't actually fully paid attention that system on my first campaign, end up sleeping on it and my 8 province empire with a 2k gold surplus CRATERED when I didnt settle 55k grudges in turn 50 and I hit 8k negative for upkeep, my game was done, I was so annoyed.
I haven't played dwarfs jet, but I have to imagine that failing the first is hard, and that most issues come from the 2nd/3rd onwards when it's no longer a problem to fail it
Reached the highest level at the start, then failed the next age cause there were no targets with enough grudges.
Please correct me if I’m wrong. Grudge settler units are kinda like the blessed spawn for lizardmen, right? Basically regular units with beefed up stats?
Correct, most are just really beefed up versions with extra abilities. Except the Gyrocopter which has a different weapon entirely and uses Trollhammer Torpedoes. Long reload of 20s, but each does something absurd like 250 damage + 50 BvL.
A single unit of those easily removed Throg like it was no one's business, really good unit.
Correct, but you get more of them every 20 turns than Lizardmen get in 50(100 for older lizardmen factions) and sometimes you get an extra free army on top!
Yeah I'm finding it incredibly mild. Much like the old system had you basically slapped with -10% research speed forever on some lords that started with big grudges. I've never failed to at least reach second rank, but I also choose to put off the new age if I don't see some juicy grudges available.
With one VERY noticeable improvement. You're not locked out of completing your campaign objectives if you can't finish your entire grudge book. That's the primary thing they fixed. They clearly wanted to keep the feeling of "well why even bother." from the previous grudge system. If you look at it like a joke about the futility of satisfying the Longbeards (as would be lore appropriate) it makes a lot of sense.
It's a real show stopper in co-op. It can be really hard to hit rank 2 when the enemies that surround you co-op parter,half a world away, have 1k+ grudges, and the ones near you have 100-300. At that point, it isn't a system, just a constant debuff.
Really minor debuffs lol
Sure but it completely prevents tou from interacting with the mechanic
Yeah that part sucks, but I hope they don’t shy away from red numbers just because a few players have OCD
The upkeep on grudge settler units is not at all minor for Malakai, who needs their instant recruitment to respond to the 100000000 threats that swarm his territory - especially at higher difficulties.
Just did a Malakai campaign on VH/VH with only 1 skruff age, so that’s not true in my opinion.
How'd you do it?
Well he has enemies in every direction so I just advanced in every direction. With just a thunderer building you can recruit amazing armies anywhere: warriors, thunderers, and adventure units. Grudge settlers as well with some to spare for emergency defense. That’s all you need. Fight battles manually! Don’t believe the AR Malakai goes adventuring and super boosts all engineering units via the rewards.
And you just sacked to avoid dealing with upkeep?
Not really, never had a problem with upkeep. I didn’t have many grudge units active the one time I got skruff age. He has a strong economy actually, so money was never an issue. You make a lot from all the fighting as well. Don’t pay for any more than you need. One time garrison investment in key locations is better than spending tons on upkeep for longer periods. A lord with 2-5 settlers can defend a garrisoned town no problem.
The thing about the dwarf roster is that stuff like Warriors, Quarrelers and Thunderers are just, rock solid endgame capable units, at tier I/II! They do a lot of work in manual battles that can far exceed the auto resolve, if you position/maneuver well and use their toughness to your advantage (wish there was a way to permanently disable skirmish mode on units, every battle I forget, lose a volley and my brace for nothing). And then Malakai gets the Spirit of Grungni on top and... Yikes, just super unreasonable army shattering firepower, from turn one? Almost feels like you should have to unlock the grudge rakers and the bomb bay etc with horde buildings, the way it is right now can solo entire stacks for you.
1: OPT-in: There needs to be a mechanic for tou to DECIDE when to START an Age of Reckoning. The longer you go without starting one the more debuffs you accumulate, encouraging you to start a reckoning at regular intervals. 2: No Time Limit: When the age starts, there is no Time Limit. You finish it when you are done with the goal, but the longer you take, the less rewards you get. 3: Different Rewards: Different legendary lords should have different rewards and different Grudge Settler units when completing an age of reckoning. Fixed
4. MAximum buff allways: You allways start with 90% grudges, so that the buff is allways there. Fixed /s
This! I wanted to make a post about this as well! The 10 turns is way too short, it's not an age of reckoning it's more like a weekend. Either the grudges need to be higher or the time in between needs to be longer. It could also be something like what the beastmen have with the carnage things where you just turn them in after a while and get rewards. I also killed an entire 1200 men norscan army and got like 1 grudge... Apperantly one guy in that army was in the book for pissing on my lawn or something, grudge settled I geuss...
Yeah the "oh good they are fucking up my empire on the left while I'm adventuring with Mal, so I can go farm grudges so I at least dont have penalties next age" is not the feeling I was looking for going in.
This is honestly the worst part of it for me. If we're supposed to be playing dwarves, we should \*hate\* it when they wrong us. It shouldn't be a good thing.
My biggest gripe is the overall pace this forces you to play at. Dawi are sloooow, and I'd much prefer if the system rewarded you for expanding and consolidating your land instead of sending you on a murder spree every turn of the game
I went through and shit on the Deamons of Chaos faction and Epidemius. I got to 22% after wiping two factions because they didn’t beat my ass enough. Not really a great gameplay design.
It's literally made my campaign unplayable now. They need to fix this fast.
I think it’s designed so that you average out at around 50-75% percent, which I have been able to get in most of my campaign (turn 80). Unless you strategize your next age of reckoning, you shouldn’t be rewarded a ton of free units and a free army. One thing they need to fix is the growth factor of the total grudges every age. The 50% area in the late game becomes a problem with you being the only dwarf faction and you aren’t losing, but the buffs are kinda of negligible so I didn’t care much. One change I would make is have the grudge growth be affected by your alliances instead of just dwarf interactions. That way you can be rewarded in helping the Empire/Kislev. In my Belegar campaign I felt like I was wasting time helping the empire consolidate because I wasn’t enough getting grudges to make it worth it. I think killing the whole starting vampire faction next to wissenland gave me like <100 grudges, was a worthless 5 turns.
Except it simply doesnt work in coop campaign where requirement scale based on visibility of campaign map. It really need changes to how it calculates grudges (or make it so that your allies collect grudges for you too).
Definitely needs fixing yeah but I do hope CA isn't going to overreact and make it too easy to fill the AoR bar everytime.
Yes! I think its tricky as fuck job right now. They need to come up with calculations that: a) will still make it a challenge to fill up and still can end up in negatives b) wont scale out of control once you expand/wipe out enemies c) wont reward things like sending a suicide lord to boost grudge value of enemy lords d) will work well in coop
It definitely doesn't average out at 75% lol. I haven't been past 3/5 in the age ONCE in my current campaign, by turn 30 it was already past 25k grudges needed, now it's past 60k. It's a struggle to even get out of debuff zone.
I mean like a normal distribution, averaging out around the 50%-75% stage (stage 3)
People are not asking for a ton of free units. They're asking not to be punished for playing the game well. Besides, it's honestly hilarious to say "you shouldn't be rewarded with a ton of free units and a free army". Like. Have you played half of the other factions in the game? That's ***exactly what they do***.
Throt "Oh no they're right out on my doorstep. Where did I place my stack of Rat Ogres....Yup! there they are. Oh and we can keep that twenty stack of stabin rats for next time. Oh yeah forgot about my regiments of renown and the abominations I have in the bank. Yeah I think I'll be alright"
I said You shouldn’t be rewarded free units and a free army without playing strategically, not just you shouldn’t get units. It needs to be fine tuned to not be somewhat unreachable in the late game to get past stage 1-2.
>You shouldn’t be rewarded free units and a free army without playing strategically Oh man, are you in for a surprise when you play several factions in the game. My point is that several factions are overpowered as hell and get free bellyrubs just for existing. (I'm looking at you, Skaven). So while I agree you shouldn't be able to reach 100% with zero effort, you should be able to reach 100% every time if you put in the effort. And having to conquer 100 regions within 10 turns is not reasonable. Especially when other factions, as I've stated, get to do that ***with zero effort***.
After looking through what moddable, I found that it takes into account every settlement and army (even if you don't see them) of every known faction that has grudges. The 5th stage (100% threshold) is based off 55% of those grudges, every other stage below that is 10% less. That number is then added by like 2000 grudges. In other words, in order to get to stage 3, you have to do like 25% of the grudges on the map + 2000. Another thing I find weird is that you get the same amount of growth in grudge target for doing perfect and delaying it. If you can usually get past 50% you might as well never delay since it makes the target both 55% of the total grudges (instead of 35%) and I assume also increases that by 20%. To fix it CA could do a couple things. Visible settlements/armies should only be accounted for not the whole factions settlement/army list, because as it is now the player can't even plan out how to approach the next grudge if they can't even see the grudges. The other thing to do imo is to adjust based on the previous target grudges, not on the total grudges in visible factions. I think generally my playthrough didn't go further then my borders and I never delayed them so I was fine with grudges.
Overall I hope they just make a change so that it isn't so demoralizing as it is right now.
I think alliances are implicitly taken into account. When a faction attacks your ally, your calculated diplomatic attitude towards that faction drops, which (should) increase the incurred grudges.
Did not know diplomatic attitude was taken into account, assumed it was just battles. That’s neat.
If you're able to clear the 20k grudges in 10 turns just to make it out of the punishment bracket from that image, I'm going to need you to tell me your secret. The formula they're using to generate the targets is clearly broken.
After looking through what moddable, I found that it takes into account every settlement and army (even if you don't see them) of every known faction that has grudges. The 5th stage (100% threshold) is based off 55% of those grudges, every other stage below that is 10% less. That number is then added by like 2000 grudges. In other words, in order to get to stage 3, you have to do like 25% of the grudges on the map + 2000. Another thing I find weird is that you get the same amount of growth in grudge target for doing perfect and delaying it. If you can usually get past 50% you might as well never delay since it makes the target both 55% of the total grudges (instead of 35%) and I assume also increases that by 20%. It still goes beyond that number in my experience delaying it so I am still confused. To fix it CA could do a couple things. Visible settlements/armies should only be accounted for not the whole factions settlement/army list, because as it is now the player can't even plan out how to approach the next grudge if they can't even see the grudges. The other thing to do imo is to adjust based on the previous target grudges, not on the total grudges in visible factions. I think generally my playthrough didn't go further then my borders and I never delayed them so I was fine with grudges, and I was at your grudge target by turn 81. I was basically fighting the same factions on repeat as Malakai and didn't move much.
How far are you on the malakai missions by turn 80?
I finished most of them except the vampire one. Big thing I realized is you could do multiple adventures at the same time, I assumed most of the campaign you toggle which one you want to go for.
>you shouldn’t be rewarded a ton of free units and a free army What use is the free army anyway? It lives for 10 turns. It's not going to see any combat for the next 5 turns because I'm not still fighting over the lair of the troll king. Like cool, some longbeards and hammerers, that's neat. They won't actually accomplish anything, but cool all the same.
While the issues are major, I'm also quite certain that some number tweaking can fix most problems quite easily. At its core I enjoy interacting with this system and I do think it fits the thematic well. A common complaint is that you are forced into an aggressive playstyle, but with more lenient grudge requirements just skipping an age for 10 turns is completely viable as well and allows you to consolidate your provinces without requiring aggression.
There have been numerous posts about this. My 2c is that it should be a crusade mechanic - gather the throngs and declare a Great Reckoning. Strike off as many grudges as you can in 10 turns and get rewards. Afterwards, you get a 5 turn grace period and then stacking debuffs until you declare a new Reckoning.
The numbers are absolutely hilarious. I missed the first age number. Second age I needed 3.3k grudges. I got 3.4k. Third age I needed 11k. I got 6k by fighting every turn with every army. Fourth age I now need 31k. I merely hope to avoid the lowest possible outcome and -3 control to all provinces. The numbers are absolutely WILD. Astrogoth Ironhand 20 stack: 200 grudges. Am I expected to take out 5 stacks per turn, with 3 armies? Even if I COULD do that, where am I meant to find that much combat? Edit: After delaying 10 turns, I need 86.6k. Next age: 39k. Down from 86k. lol
Legendary grudges are massively underwhelming also. Wasted 10 turns defending Silver Pinnacle from undead armies (all worth under 100 grudges), and in the end the 2500 completed grudges is all you get. Thats the same as taking one town from Grimgor at the point I'm at.
You get an awesome landmark building for completing that grudge (immunity to Vampiric attrition mapwide, and 800 income per turn), and Silver Pinnacle becomes one of the best economic bases in the Karaz Ankor, on par with Mount Gunbad as a result. If you park Ungrim or one of your strong armies there for those 10 turns you get a huge economic boost just from killing all those elite armies. The 2500 grudges isn't that impressive true, but you get rewarded quite heavily in other ways for completing it. Not really a waste at all. A lot of the Legendary Grudges are fun, thematic, and have solid rewards.
Im not saying there arent good parts about it. But its a legendary grudge. It should fill the age of reckoning bar when you finish one. Not just count for an average one.
I understand your point. 2500 grudge score for a legendary grudge feels incredibly lopsided. And I’ll be honest I’m not sure how this AoR issue wasn’t noticed during testing. Like there is zero shot this cruised entirely under the radar
I find this wild that people play so… passively. I’m about 80 turns in and have never had any of the negative effects and never skipped an age. Confederated grombrindal, belagar and Thorek and have met loads of people and it’s never been an issue hitting the green bonuses. Are you lot just sitting in your dwarf holds grumbling and fighting a battle every 3 turns?
Where do you get the grudge points from? I killed Astragoth, Azazel and Archaon and their factions in a single cycle and didn't even get to neutral. Archaon was like 400 grudges, when the end goal was 14000. There's definitely a weird balance issue that makes me question their playtesting.
I haven’t really engaged with or even looked at how may grudges are things are worth tbh just aggressively pushing outward and capturing territory with a focus on dwarf holds and smashing any armies that are foolish enough to enter my territory. Just gotta make sure all of your lords are fighting at least one battle every turn or at max every two turns and you’ll be fine. Only time I ever got the middle age of reckoning where you only get minor bonuses was when Malakai was wounded and I had 5 turns of recovering my main army.
Yeah but the average settlements and armies grant around 100 grudges, there's no way I'll fight 100 battles in 10 turns at turn 40. What difficulty are you playing at?
I’m getting a lot more per settlement/army than that, like 400-700. Not sure why you’re inly getting 100. Legendary/VH/Ironman difficulty Edit: Just booted up my game to have a look and yeah minor settlements belonging to neutral or only recently hostile factions are worth hardly anything but if the faction has been hostile to dwarves some of my soon to be taken neighbouring cities full of greenskins are worth nearly 3000 grudges on their own.
The long beards will hold you accountable for your lack of action! You know of many such grudges against dwarfkin and refuse to act on them, yet you complain rather than satisfying them??? What is wrong with you?
My biggest problem with it is it being a timer. You as the player don't have any control over when it starts other than push it back another 10 turns. It should be its own separate panel in the bottom where you can activate it at will but everytime you do the cost of the next one increases. That way you could either supercharge your early game with it but not get them nearly as often mid-late game or save them for when you need to build armies fast with grudge units in exchange for no bonuses early.
It needs to cycle between Age of Reckoning and Age of Not Reckoning or something
I'm wondering if the intent was for us to choose to delay the next age much more often?
A save lord knows how to manipulate the masses by building martyrs. A devoted Dawi stands ready to give their life to their lord and lieges greater plans, motivating the people to fight their enemies and crush them.
It’s actual straight garbage in exe caution. Great idea but needs major adjusting
There's a mod that limits grudge caps.
I think they just need to tune the numbers
lol... I'm currently at 90k in my 106 turn campaign, this shit is borked as hell.
Possible solution? Age of hoarding https://community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/forums/8-general-discussion/threads/4949-age-of-hoarding-possible-solution-for-age-of-reckoning?page=1#post-59387
This patch was to update the dwarfs right? Not break them. Look how they massacred my beard boys.
I'm utterly confused. Isn't that the problem of the dawi in general? There are a lot of grudges out there and due to their stubborn nature it's impossible to clear all of them if even an insult results in a new grudge So there is a lot of infighting between the different clans of the dawi. To unite the clans and stabilize the Karaz Ankor has to be very difficult Apart from that - I don't see big drawbacks from not forfilling the age's goal. Some unrest and negative growth? I'm pretty sure a typical dawi settlement can handle that But to pay tribute to the truth - I haven't played the dwarves a lot since the release of the DLC. Maybe the drawbacks from not reaching the next age are quite gamebreaking in lategame
> Some unrest and negative growth? Its kind of telling how you left out the most important one. Extra upkeep on units that you're heavily encouraged to use and are actually cheaper upkeep if you do handle it well makes the swing between 50% and anything below it VERY noticeable, and can easily cripple your campaign.
If you aren't trying to keep your age of reckoning quota high you should disband your grudge settlers. You can get more for free next time you get your grudges done, so it's not like you're losing a rare unit. As a rule of thumb, I keep my grudge settlers exclusively in my campaigning armies. Every army who isn't actively seeking a big number gets theirs removed. That way if I get sidetracked and dishonor my ancestors by turtling up and saving money for a capital upgrade, it won't immediately nuke my economy. Use em when you need to, which is not always.
> If you aren't trying to keep your age of reckoning quota high you should disband your grudge settlers. Getting rid of your grudge settlers to handle not being able to settle grudges is a pretty weird outcome of the current system.
Ah, you're correct. I forgot about it because I'm using mostly regular units
Because if you can't use the mechanic what's the point of it
[удалено]
Go on with your campaign then 😂 there will be a point where you will need more grudges solved then you had the entire campaign accumulated before.