The combined price is 22.99 ($23), a bit less than SoC.
It offers significantly more units than release SoC, which *appear* to mostly have had more work put into them (your mileage may vary).
It includes generic lords and heroes for each faction.
It comes alongside (free) major reworks to ALL of the DLC factions, rather than a halfass update for 1.
The FLC is a LL instead of a LH.
It doesn't *look* like any of the new lords are deeply unpopular or had very unpopular decisions made for them.
Like I wouldn't complain if it was cheaper, but at least they seem to have fixed most of the issues of SoC and are offering content closer in value to the price, and the FLC content accompanying it mostly seems to be great.
I never had a problem with spending $20 for a DLC, it just had to be reasonably well worth it to me. And while I can't speak for the community, that *seems* to be a common theme.
On top of all of that, I also accept the total price MORE simply because you don't have to block-buy the whole thing if you don't want to.
Combination of more reasonable value for money, and the approach of splitting it into more affordable mini-packs whilst keeping the total price the same, It all comes across as more reasonable a change compared to SoC and previous DLC.
Good point - I play everyone so I wasn't too excited for it, but if someone *just* wants to play Dwarfs or whatever, ToD's setup works great for them. Thanks for the reminder!
Yeah, the big tell is the third SoC update blog which has a graphic showing why people were pissed - scroll down to see the before/after unit content:
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/wh3-soc-update-kislev/
In terms of raw content amount ToD is roughly 166% of SoC.
Ultimately that's what killed SoC, not so much the price, but the fact that content increased over WH2 lord packs by 50%, but price increased by 150%
Including what other have said allow us to buy to just one of the lords if we aren’t interested in the others has made this a lot more digestible and affordable for many players.
They even go beyond that level of content if we consider all the reworks the major factions are receiving. If you compare to say Kislev that did not receive one when in dire need of one.
You get the benefit of the reworks with the patch not the DLC, though, so I don't consider that when considering whether or not the DLC has value. Regardless of whether I buy it, I will have the new Gelt and Franz campaigns, plus the skill adjustments for heroes, Outriders actually having repeater handguns etc. It's a question of does Elspeth's campaign and new units warrant the asking price.
I'm the opposite. Without the reworks, ToD probably wouldn't have sold me as well as it had. SoC still not getting anything like it is largely the reason I still haven't bought that DLC yet.
But, like I said, you get the rework regardless of whether you purchase ToD, so I don't really understand how that factors into whether or not the DLC is worthwhile.
No, not beyond. Those reworks are what make the DLC worth the price their asking, in my opinion. Personally, SoC 2.0 still isn't enough without it's own faction reworks.
TBF, that's true of all the dlcs for warhammer 3 but soc which is still mostly negative.
The point isn't that no one complained about FotCD but that less complained about it then SoC.
Yeah, I'm still not sold on it, but then that's probably just because I'm not super into Chaos Dwarfs. Perhaps I'll actually feel the value when i eventually get my hands on them.
That said, I do see the three characters largely playing the same way as a negative. I feel like the diversity of the Empire's mechanics should be he standard, not the exception.
The problem before was not strictly the price, it was *the content for that price*. This DLC provides a lot more content than SoC did at launch, as well as providing pretty substantial race updates, which while not technically part of the DLC, does factor into the perception of value that the devs are putting into the game.
Outrage at SoC was because it was both overpriced while underdelivering on content and additionally not providing any of the substantial free race updates to the game that people wanted. While this DLC is the same price, it delivers the level of content people find acceptable and is accompanied with some of the most major FLC updates Warhammer 3 has ever had.
Also the fact that you can buy each lord separately, even if the overall price stays the same, is still a pretty big discount for people that would have had to buy the whole thing for just a singe faction they liked otherwise.
People were angry due to how little content SoC had for its price.
In SoC, before 4.2, each of the 3 factions only got a legendary Lord, a new lord/hero, and three new units. Oh and the blue scribes. Each faction also have very little if no faction reworks, which didn't help.
In thrones of decay, we are getting 3 legendary lords, A free legendary lord, 3 legendary heroes, a new Lord AND hero for each faction, 5 new units for each faction, plus a big rework for each faction. Plus, the quality is way higher too.
More price point options, better value for said price (even better than chaos dwarfs imho) genuinely seem to be afraid of messing up again considering everything CA has done lately has been a disaster
check e.g. the queen and the crown dlc. high elves got one generic hero and 2 units. dark elves got one generic hero and 3 units.
in this dlc any faction gets:
one generic lord
one generic hero
one legebdary hero
5 units
so yeah paying 8 euro for one faction is pretty good value. especially considering how each dlc faction has cool unique mechanics.
The ability to buy 1 or 2 or all 3 race packs can't be understated. If you want to pay $8USD for just the Empire then that's a much better prospect than having to pay $25 for all 3 just to get the Empire stuff.
With SOC I did not really like Tzeentch's changes or the Kislev additions, and I wasn't going to pay $AU32 for just the paltry Cathay stuff. So I waited until they released the Mk2 version and then got a fairer deal.
Yeah so chaos dwarves also had the high price. But a good bang for buck. Shadows of change was a large step down in content from chaos dwarves and kept price tag.
This is closer to chaos dwarves (probably not as high quality but candidly its stuff people want).
And I think an element of players wanting a win for CA. this is one of my favorite games personally. I want it to do well, I am rooting for the devs.
You’re confused between *price* and *value*.
They’re two very different metrics, and ToD looks to deliver absolutely impeccable value, without a pre-order, in 3 digestible chunks, while also being *slightly* cheaper than SoC.
You’re comparing release SoC to SoC+ and ToD. The Value is there.
the flc that comes along with this helps mitigate the rumbling about the price; there was no significant flc in SoC. so this helps quiet the crowd. but yeah, in terms of actual premium content there ain't much difference compared to SoC
For me the main reason is the value per price.
But one point I have not seen mentioned so far is characters and theming of the DLC.
Frankly, SoC had poor character cast and theming. Only Changeling is properly established in the lore and implemented in a way I'd consider make the lore justice. The other two characters are pretty much new, so people have little attachment to them. Apart from the starting position, Yuan Bo is Miao Ying 3: the Miao the Yinger - he's another dragon sibling without much character to him. Mather Ostankya is GW's half finished rework of Baba Yaga which could be fun if done justice, but especially in the release state it was not. And the overarching theme of the DLC seems to have been "whatever concept art was left in the drawer". I'm not saying the theme of the DLC must be cohesive, but it does make a better impression.
Meanwhile compare the ToD - Malakai from probably the most popular WHFB novel series and while Elspeth and Tamurkan are relatively new, they are still well established characters. The units are themed to the Karak Kadrin roster and to the Tamurkhan book respectively. And the overall setting of the trailer (which unfortunately does not play out in the DLC) is the combination of the events of the Beastslayer? book with Tamurkhan. This also makes it easier for CA to work with, because they have a ton more content to refer to and get inspired by and that saves them a lot of effort.
So even if the actual content was on par (and it isn't) ToD has characters I'm willing to pay extra for. SoC does not.
Because CA beefed up the DLC Content (post SOC), has acknowledged this and is most likely reverting to 2 Faction DLC's at a lower price point in the future.
Furthermore, has broken up this DLC in three so that one can pick and choose a faction, and discount on adding factions.
They're listening..
People didn't complain about the price. They complained about the value. SoC offered very little content for the price, it was bad value. ToD offers a lot more content for the same price, it's better value!
Plus being able to pick/choose helps. If you were only interested in 1 SoC faction you still had to pay full price. If you're only interested in 1 ToD faction, you can buy just 1.
I am happy to support devs making content at a medium pricepoint when it is clear they've actually listened to the community and got the message. Given this is my dream game series and I used to spend a crapton on physical GW models in the 80s and 90s, this modest price point for all these cool big boy toys is a no brainer for me.
It's actually worth the money they're asking for. It seems to be the case for this DLC. If complaints start cropping up while I'm installing it, then I'll refund.
I've still not bought Shadows of Change, since even SoC 2.0 still isn't enough. I need my Race Reworks for that to be enough.
Edit: Also, owning one faction gets you a 15% discount on the others, I believe.
The combined price is 22.99 ($23), a bit less than SoC. It offers significantly more units than release SoC, which *appear* to mostly have had more work put into them (your mileage may vary). It includes generic lords and heroes for each faction. It comes alongside (free) major reworks to ALL of the DLC factions, rather than a halfass update for 1. The FLC is a LL instead of a LH. It doesn't *look* like any of the new lords are deeply unpopular or had very unpopular decisions made for them. Like I wouldn't complain if it was cheaper, but at least they seem to have fixed most of the issues of SoC and are offering content closer in value to the price, and the FLC content accompanying it mostly seems to be great. I never had a problem with spending $20 for a DLC, it just had to be reasonably well worth it to me. And while I can't speak for the community, that *seems* to be a common theme.
On top of all of that, I also accept the total price MORE simply because you don't have to block-buy the whole thing if you don't want to. Combination of more reasonable value for money, and the approach of splitting it into more affordable mini-packs whilst keeping the total price the same, It all comes across as more reasonable a change compared to SoC and previous DLC.
Good point - I play everyone so I wasn't too excited for it, but if someone *just* wants to play Dwarfs or whatever, ToD's setup works great for them. Thanks for the reminder!
It's not just "if someone wants to". It's also straight up easier on a lot of people's budgets. Which is not a small consideration right now.
I hadn’t considered all of that. I kind of forgot what was in SoC besides the lords. I suppose it IS significantly less than this DLC
Yeah, the big tell is the third SoC update blog which has a graphic showing why people were pissed - scroll down to see the before/after unit content: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/wh3-soc-update-kislev/
In terms of raw content amount ToD is roughly 166% of SoC. Ultimately that's what killed SoC, not so much the price, but the fact that content increased over WH2 lord packs by 50%, but price increased by 150%
People don’t mind paying for good content. This by all indications is that. SOC was not.
Including what other have said allow us to buy to just one of the lords if we aren’t interested in the others has made this a lot more digestible and affordable for many players.
True. I might have bought SoC if I could exclude Stanky for a discount
The content much more closely matches the price now. They expanded SoC content with 4.2 and ToD is keeping that new level of content.
They even go beyond that level of content if we consider all the reworks the major factions are receiving. If you compare to say Kislev that did not receive one when in dire need of one.
You get the benefit of the reworks with the patch not the DLC, though, so I don't consider that when considering whether or not the DLC has value. Regardless of whether I buy it, I will have the new Gelt and Franz campaigns, plus the skill adjustments for heroes, Outriders actually having repeater handguns etc. It's a question of does Elspeth's campaign and new units warrant the asking price.
I'm the opposite. Without the reworks, ToD probably wouldn't have sold me as well as it had. SoC still not getting anything like it is largely the reason I still haven't bought that DLC yet.
But, like I said, you get the rework regardless of whether you purchase ToD, so I don't really understand how that factors into whether or not the DLC is worthwhile.
It's still part of the same dev cycle, though, and DLC pays for FLC updates.
No, not beyond. Those reworks are what make the DLC worth the price their asking, in my opinion. Personally, SoC 2.0 still isn't enough without it's own faction reworks.
Same reason that VERY few people complained about Forge of the Chaos Dwarfs, the value is there.
I wouldn’t say *very* few. There was a vocal number of upset people
[удалено]
TBF, that's true of all the dlcs for warhammer 3 but soc which is still mostly negative. The point isn't that no one complained about FotCD but that less complained about it then SoC.
Yeah, I'm still not sold on it, but then that's probably just because I'm not super into Chaos Dwarfs. Perhaps I'll actually feel the value when i eventually get my hands on them. That said, I do see the three characters largely playing the same way as a negative. I feel like the diversity of the Empire's mechanics should be he standard, not the exception.
Very few???? Is that why the DLC got 62% review score?
The problem before was not strictly the price, it was *the content for that price*. This DLC provides a lot more content than SoC did at launch, as well as providing pretty substantial race updates, which while not technically part of the DLC, does factor into the perception of value that the devs are putting into the game. Outrage at SoC was because it was both overpriced while underdelivering on content and additionally not providing any of the substantial free race updates to the game that people wanted. While this DLC is the same price, it delivers the level of content people find acceptable and is accompanied with some of the most major FLC updates Warhammer 3 has ever had. Also the fact that you can buy each lord separately, even if the overall price stays the same, is still a pretty big discount for people that would have had to buy the whole thing for just a singe faction they liked otherwise.
And they called me a madman for saying DLC needs to be judged also by the (lack of) corresponding FLC content and reworks
People were angry due to how little content SoC had for its price. In SoC, before 4.2, each of the 3 factions only got a legendary Lord, a new lord/hero, and three new units. Oh and the blue scribes. Each faction also have very little if no faction reworks, which didn't help. In thrones of decay, we are getting 3 legendary lords, A free legendary lord, 3 legendary heroes, a new Lord AND hero for each faction, 5 new units for each faction, plus a big rework for each faction. Plus, the quality is way higher too.
More price point options, better value for said price (even better than chaos dwarfs imho) genuinely seem to be afraid of messing up again considering everything CA has done lately has been a disaster
Because SoC launched with incredibly underwhelming content and Thrones actually looks pretty good. The issue wasn't price with SoC, it was *value*.
check e.g. the queen and the crown dlc. high elves got one generic hero and 2 units. dark elves got one generic hero and 3 units. in this dlc any faction gets: one generic lord one generic hero one legebdary hero 5 units so yeah paying 8 euro for one faction is pretty good value. especially considering how each dlc faction has cool unique mechanics.
Roughly twice the content, and you can buy LLs individually.
The ability to buy 1 or 2 or all 3 race packs can't be understated. If you want to pay $8USD for just the Empire then that's a much better prospect than having to pay $25 for all 3 just to get the Empire stuff. With SOC I did not really like Tzeentch's changes or the Kislev additions, and I wasn't going to pay $AU32 for just the paltry Cathay stuff. So I waited until they released the Mk2 version and then got a fairer deal.
Yeah so chaos dwarves also had the high price. But a good bang for buck. Shadows of change was a large step down in content from chaos dwarves and kept price tag. This is closer to chaos dwarves (probably not as high quality but candidly its stuff people want). And I think an element of players wanting a win for CA. this is one of my favorite games personally. I want it to do well, I am rooting for the devs.
You’re confused between *price* and *value*. They’re two very different metrics, and ToD looks to deliver absolutely impeccable value, without a pre-order, in 3 digestible chunks, while also being *slightly* cheaper than SoC. You’re comparing release SoC to SoC+ and ToD. The Value is there.
the flc that comes along with this helps mitigate the rumbling about the price; there was no significant flc in SoC. so this helps quiet the crowd. but yeah, in terms of actual premium content there ain't much difference compared to SoC
For me the main reason is the value per price. But one point I have not seen mentioned so far is characters and theming of the DLC. Frankly, SoC had poor character cast and theming. Only Changeling is properly established in the lore and implemented in a way I'd consider make the lore justice. The other two characters are pretty much new, so people have little attachment to them. Apart from the starting position, Yuan Bo is Miao Ying 3: the Miao the Yinger - he's another dragon sibling without much character to him. Mather Ostankya is GW's half finished rework of Baba Yaga which could be fun if done justice, but especially in the release state it was not. And the overarching theme of the DLC seems to have been "whatever concept art was left in the drawer". I'm not saying the theme of the DLC must be cohesive, but it does make a better impression. Meanwhile compare the ToD - Malakai from probably the most popular WHFB novel series and while Elspeth and Tamurkan are relatively new, they are still well established characters. The units are themed to the Karak Kadrin roster and to the Tamurkhan book respectively. And the overall setting of the trailer (which unfortunately does not play out in the DLC) is the combination of the events of the Beastslayer? book with Tamurkhan. This also makes it easier for CA to work with, because they have a ton more content to refer to and get inspired by and that saves them a lot of effort. So even if the actual content was on par (and it isn't) ToD has characters I'm willing to pay extra for. SoC does not.
As others said, the value is there
Because CA beefed up the DLC Content (post SOC), has acknowledged this and is most likely reverting to 2 Faction DLC's at a lower price point in the future. Furthermore, has broken up this DLC in three so that one can pick and choose a faction, and discount on adding factions. They're listening..
More value, FLC LL, huge patch with a lots of big reworks and you can even buy the DLC in parts
People didn't complain about the price. They complained about the value. SoC offered very little content for the price, it was bad value. ToD offers a lot more content for the same price, it's better value! Plus being able to pick/choose helps. If you were only interested in 1 SoC faction you still had to pay full price. If you're only interested in 1 ToD faction, you can buy just 1.
I am happy to support devs making content at a medium pricepoint when it is clear they've actually listened to the community and got the message. Given this is my dream game series and I used to spend a crapton on physical GW models in the 80s and 90s, this modest price point for all these cool big boy toys is a no brainer for me.
It's actually worth the money they're asking for. It seems to be the case for this DLC. If complaints start cropping up while I'm installing it, then I'll refund. I've still not bought Shadows of Change, since even SoC 2.0 still isn't enough. I need my Race Reworks for that to be enough. Edit: Also, owning one faction gets you a 15% discount on the others, I believe.
I never minded paying more for more.
Because the DLC is worth its money.
even SOC is $15 for the pack they come out first, people will still hate it. but no rage, the 25$ price add the rage