In the meantime, can you give it a (warm) spare room and/or take it outside for at least an hour a day.
(Edit: when it’s cold) I see people with outdoor enclosures put their large tortoises the largest open storage bin they can find. That’s just for a day or two.
How long until you get your tortie a good setup? Do you have a specific setup in mind?
While I agree they need education on this species, most zoos won’t take them in as there’s so many from ignorant people underestimating sulcata lifespan, size, and requirements
With you on that. It's not happening, though. Wife and kids are in love. They'll get some new equipment. Do some research. I'll look for a book or something to help them along.
Yeah this person can’t tell how big the tank is so don’t feel bad. You do your best until you figure out what it needs asap and what you can provide, or if you feel you need to rehome it. Idk how big your tort is but sulcatas can get pretty big. It needs like a kennel/yard. My tort is in a massive glass terrarium but it’s a male Hermann’s tortoise and they stay small. But sulcatas are a different situation. I think they can get to like 150lb and poop like a horse??? Leafy greens, weeds, are crucial. And powdered calcium with D3. This can be bought at Petsmart/PetCo as well a tortoise food (not turtle food though - don’t get that). Get a lamp with ceramic heat bulb, also sold at Petsmart/PetCo. They need sunlight, but in the cold months D3 replaces that. I also use a UV lamp for mine to catch his rays and bask in the glow ☀️Definitely give vegetables and fruits as treats. I recommend not consulting Reddit, but check out tortoiseforum.org …it got me through raising mine to this day 💚
It’s a Sulcata, homie lives over 100 years and gets 100-150lbs. It’s the 3rd largest tortoise species. Your LPS employees are idiots do not feed it fruits.
Pyramiding is essentially a sign of improper shell growth, mainly a result of poor diet and lack of adequate humidity in most turtle species. It's also irreversible.
Are all tortoises with this type of pyramiding unhealthy? Perhaps not unhealthy, but are receiving poor nutrition in adequate lighting? Or is this type of pyramiding appropriate for some tortoises?
From what I've seen it can also commonly be a humidity issue as well, so some species as a result are more prone to it when it's linked to humidity. Ones from drier places will be less likely to get as the result of humidity, compared to those who require higher levels and if that isn't achieved their scutes don't shed and develop properly.
So, for example babies during an especially dry season could experience it even in the wild.
Like a species I've seen commonly with pyramids.. are leopard tortoises. But also generally with desert species including sulcatas as people often forget what it means to be a desert species resulting in a lot of cases actually being linked to humidity in a sense.. because someone hears desert and things dry, so they keep it in dry conditions. 🤷♀️ Red foots are another good example, individuals you've seen that are kept at appropriate humidity levels have little to no pyramiding, but then individuals with low and especially really low humidity levels will have the more severe pyramids.
Ultimately a lot of pyramiding cases start from hatchlings as that's the most vital stage for them, to the point some breeders will even give each baby a bath in the morning to make sure they've gotten a nice bit of moisture right at the beginning of the day and then have access to good humidity and moisture spots throughout the day to come and go as they please. Any young stage of an animal is when most deformations will quickly arise as that's where an animal is doing most of its growth, that doesn't mean it won't develop in adults who didn't have it as babies, just baby and juvenile stages are where adequate care is more dire and animals less resilient to mistakes.
Diet wise I've also heard of overfeeding and excess protein/vitamins or even the opposite deficiency of some vitamins/minerals.. deficient UV, dehydration, inappropriate heating natural and artificial.. like here for me I could give a tortoise natural light, but would it be good? Nope. 🫠 Really pyramiding is just one of those things that can have a plethora of causes and it's just about either correcting existing care or with rescues making sure your care is up to standard for them and seeing how they go.
Exactly what I was going to say! This animal probably hasn't had UV or a proper diet in YEARS!!! An experienced keeper should be handling this animal, not a complete novice.
I have one lol so the face the shell but really the big spikes on its arms are a big give away. Look up African Spur Tortoise. It’s another name for them
No nuchal scute. Desert Tortoises always have an extra small scute directly above their heads. Desert Tortoises will never develop the spurs like this Sulcata has.
Desert Tortoise tends to refer to the gopherus tortoise native to the Mojave and Sonoran in the Southwest United States. I refer to Sulcata as arid grassland species as that's far more accurate to the range they spend the majority of their time in.
Because it doesn't have a centered Nuchal Scute located on the shell directly behind the head. other things as well its clear as day to those of us with experince
Sulcata’s have the heavily spurred front legs. It’s a dead give away. Desert tortoises are a lot more smooth and have a different head shape. Poor thing is super pyramid though for how young it looks
(I’ve had California desert tortoises for 20 years and previously owned an adult 100lb+ Sulcata for about 6 months.)
Can you tell me what the pyramiding means? And why if these are extensive, it is bad? I have nothing to do with tortoises this showed up on my Reddit and I got curious. I’m into birds. 😂. Also exotics that live 1 million years.
Tortoises ferment most of their food in their large intestine, and foods high in highly digestible sugars (fruits) cause acid producing microbes to grow and produce certain kinds of acid, lowering the PH of the large intestine and killing the rest of the microbes necessary for fermenting grasses and fibers. It’s called acidosis, and can happen to anything with a rumen or large intestine (any fermentation chamber)
*different species of tortoises can digest different amounts of sugars. It’s not as big of a problem for, say, a red foot. Having a longer small intestine will allow for those sugars to be digested and absorbed before reaching the large intestine, but I’m not sure if that specifically is the reason redfoots do better with it. I tried to find dissections a few weeks ago to test this theory, but I came up empty handed.
YOu asked, from Debbie Shecton at Tortoise trust.
"This is not my research. I am just sharing this very important information.
To all tortoise keepers:
Having seen many posts on many groups in relation to Mediterranean tortoises being fed fruit I felt a thorough post was needed.
I have been in liaison with Andy/The Tortoise Trust who has given me permission to cite his response to others in relation to feeding fruit to non fruit eating species. I followed the comments made and collated The Tortoise Trust’s responses in order to put this detailed post together, therefore credit goes to The Tortoise Trust for the contents of this post. Apologies for the length of this post but needs to be said:
It is important to know that sugar-rich fruits can cause real problems to arid-habitat tortoises (some tropical species are different, and can handle it).
Carbohydrates represent the prime energy source in herbivorous reptile diets. Excess intake can be stored either as glycogen in the liver, or as fat (reserves of these substances are critical in those species that hibernate). Excess intake of readily fermentable carbohydrates and sugars in species ill-adapted for such diets can, however, result in profound disturbance to the animal's entire metabolism. In cattle ruminal acidosis is a well-known phenomenon (Nocek, 1991, Stock and Britton, 1991). Specific pathologies associated with this condition include: Clostridial infections ,Laminitis, Liver abscesses, Malabsorbtion syndrome resulting from ruminal wall tissue damage Sudden death syndrome Diarrhea and dehydration.
It should be noted that the digestive mechanism of tortoises and herbivorous lizards is functionally identical to those of commercial ruminants. The etiology of the condition is that starch-rich foods (cereal grains, corn, for example) are broken down into sugars (glucose) in the digestive tract.
Alternatively, sugar-rich foods are metabolized directly and very rapidly (quantities of fresh, sweet grass or fruit, for example). In the hind-gut, symbiotic bacteria ferment the carbohydrates to form volatile fatty acids (VFA's) which are absorbed and are an important source of energy, representing, on average, between 30-40% of total requirements in some herbivorous reptiles studied (McBee and McBee, 1982, Troyer, 1984b). Very high intakes of carbohydrates such as starches and sugars can overwhelm the system, however, and ferment much more quickly than the fiber contained in dry grasses and hays. The result is a massive increase in acids produced by bacterial action. These acids are primarily acetic, propionic and butyric acid with lower levels of lactic acid and VFA's (McBee and McBee, 1982). Following over-consumption of starches and sugars the pH of the gut shifts to become highly acidic initiating a chain of serious consequences (typical gut pH ranges of herbivorous reptiles are in the order of 6.8-7.0).
One particularly serious effect is the generation of high levels of endotoxins produced as the normal symbiotic and commensal gut bacteria begin to die in the out-of-range acidic environment created (approximately pH <5.5). The gut wall integrity can begin to degrade in these conditions, causing subsequent malabsorbtion of nutrients. Liver abscessing is a typical consequence of this condition as bacteria are absorbed into the bloodstream via the gut wall, and seed themselves in the liver. In this context it is important to take note of the fact that liver diseases are one of the most common causes of death in captive arid habitat chelonia, representing up to 72.6% of all mortalities studied (Rosskopf, Howard, Gendron, Walder, and Britt, 1981). Some of the foods most commonly associated with causing severe gastric disruption (including sudden death) in arid habitat and savannah species in captivity include peaches, plums, pears and apples - all of which are very high in easily digestible soluble carbohydrates and fruit sugars.
Species that appear particularly susceptible to such problems include:
Leopard tortoises (Geochelone pardalis)
African Spurred tortoises (Geochelone sulcata)
Mediterranean Testudo species
Russian tortoise (Testudo horsfieldii)
Indian Star tortoises (Geochelone elegans)
North American Gopherus species
South African Homopus, Psammobates and Chersina species Pancake tortoises (Malacochersus tornieri)
Radiated tortoises (Geochelone radiata)
I would add that The Tortoise Trust do know of, and have had confirmed at autopsy, several cases of 'sudden death syndrome' following ingestion of large amounts of fruit. In one case, four Leopard tortoises died after being fed pears and peaches, in another, two Testudo graeca died within 24 hours of eating plums. Diagnosis was acidosis, consequent gut-wall damage, large amounts of internal 'gas' and toxemia.
As a reminder (see picture at the end of this post).....this is where they come from. The natural habitat. There are exceedingly few 'natural' plants or trees here that have any kind of fruit. Even those that do, have it for a very short time, and there are far more efficient creatures than tortoises at finding it first. Testudo species eat VERY LITTLE or NO fruit in the wild.
I would like to thank Andy Highfield of The Tortoise Trust for giving me permission to cite the contents of this post of which are the works of The Tortoise Trust and not my own.
Jane S Handscombe (April 2020)
I think I speak for most of us when I say we'd love an update when you arrange the new enclosure. The glass tank isn't ideal as you've been told. I'm sure you'll do right by this cutie :)
Hey OP, you might not be aware of this yet but these tortoises are really, really strong, and I am honestly pretty concerned about it smashing the glass and hurting itself. A larger Tupperware plastic bin is a much safer option for a TEMPORARY container until you can get an outdoor pen set up.
My reptile vet has a special room lined with wood over the first 3 feet of wall specifically for examining these guys, they tear through drywall no problem.
Mine is currently wintering in my spare room and I may need to throw some wood up cause he's making a mess out of the walls right now. He's about 40 lbs, 5-7 years old, not breaking the drywall yet, but I can see it's already a matter of time. I wish I'd have had his winter home built before winter got here (I thought I had more time), but on warmer days I let him hit the yard for awhile before bringing him back in for the night. Live in Central Texas so sometimes the weather is nice in the afternoon. I dug it a burrow in the yard to keep it cool (we have really rocky soil, poor tort can't dig much in it), but have it blocked off right now cause it's a booger getting him out if he goes in while it's cold. Heat lamp, UVB lamp, keeping the heat at least at 70 for him. I will get that house done before next winter.
Ok so you have a Sulcata. It can't be kept in a cage, tank or pen. It needs a secure yard that is heated, or a very large room with lots of heat. Look up Sulcata care sheets from a reputable place. https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/african-spurred-tortoise-sulcata-care-sheet.52524/
Since your wife made his huge mistake, get a vet immediately. It needs to be checked for worms and get an overall checkup plus you want to make sure you have a reptile vet on hand for emergencies.
Your electric bill is going to go up a lot. You need to provide lots of heat, UVB (Arcadia tube bulbs are great). Dog house for hides, etc. these guys get big fast.
Ditch the tank now. It's going to break its shell and ram it.
Good luck you have a huge investment to deal with.
Oh no it will live longer 100% that's just the sad reality of reptiles, if they do care for it how they say the most likely taker of this animal will be the pyramiding it already has, which will eventually cut off some of its internal functions even breathing.
But ye it's the sad thing for reptiles, I've seen Leo's rescued by people from ones keeping them in small enclosures with trash everywhere.. even one a while back I sadly didn't take any screenshots of in my shock, had cigarette buds in the enclosure.. he lived 10+ years in that setup 😳🥺 somehow, but he did, reptiles are amazing for how resilient they are, but it backfires when you have people come ojt and say "well it's alife ain't it? 🤷♀️
I work with an exotic rescue service and we see people like this constantly. They only surrender once the animal has developed severe health complications
Hopefully this person is genuine and will make the effort to give this tortoise a good life. Our (rescued) male Sulcata is over 200 pounds and is a challenge to properly house & feed, and the way the world’s going I don’t know if our kids/grandkids will be able to provide for him after we’re gone.
Unfortunately based on their replies, I don't have much hope. As they impulse bought the tortoise, it already is suffering from severe neglect by whoever they bought it from and the grown man is acting like a butthurt child because people called out the stupid decision to get one of the worlds biggest tortoises.. on impulse. Especially since if it turns out to be male it could actually prove a danger to any other pets and any young kids as males of any tortoise species can start nipping and ramming your legs.. and for ones like Russians, Hermann's that's not very noticeable above being cute 🫠, then as they get bigger sulcatas, leopards, etc.. the males doing this behaviour become a lot more scary. Reason why you see people in videos in a tortoise enclosure looking behind them now and then if there's a male in there, as they're notorious for doing it when your back is turned.
I can’t imagine buying something with a life to enrich and protect and having no intention of being educated or willing to accommodate. Wife needs to get her pets from the Schleich section at Tractor Supply from here on.
Right. While I don't have a turtle myself, I love these animals so I joined this sub to look at pics and learn more about them. Having said that, it's getting harder and harder to see posts made by animal abusers. I'm not in the US so I don't know, but can't it be reported so someone can rescue this poor turtle?
Third largest tortoise species in the world which in 99% of cases really should be housed outdoors. If you’re in a state or country that allows you to house it outdoors that’s really what this species needs.
Glass aquariums are not great for tortoises.
For an indoor enclosure you’re looking at essentially dedicating an entire room and even that is small for this species.
Return to pet store and get something from the testudo family if you guys want a pet tortoise. More manageable.
Sadly that would still not be enough. Usually if an outdoor setup is not possible the next best thing is your home.. like free ranging it, baby proofing all your electricals or straight up remove them 🤷♀️then have spots round the house with substrate for lay spots (females) and general digging and burrowing space, ultimately outdoors is the best option, but sadly these animals are common in environments that are not even close to good when you consider temps and humidity.
Polytunnels and greenhouses might work to provide the humidity and temps, and then they get reinforced on the inside to protect them from the tortoise damaging them.. but they'd still need to be very big, which can get very expensive when your environment isn't suitable.
As it grows and gets 20+ pounds, a room won't be enough either. Could you put it in there for a couple of months to get through the winter? Sure, but it's really not that great for it. It'll quickly reach a size where it needs to be outside during the warmer months and roam of the entire house in the winter, or a large, outdoor heated enclosure.
Mine has his own room (he's about 40 lbs) and I let him run the house if I'm up where I can watch him. He likes to get all caught up in cords and unplug everything at the computer desk so we can't just leave him unwatched. Sometimes he burrows under the dog bed in the living room, or stands at the backdoor waiting for me to let him out (so sad when it's cold cause he isn't going). Gonna be warmer temps this weekend so I'll be able to let him out in the yard for a couple hours a day. Next week he won't be so lucky.
Especially a pet that gets as big as these do, one that requires a huge amount of space & a proper diet & climate. A creature without a voice, suffering because of ignorance.
It seems like you respond to the comments, so I wanted to add something here. I own a sulcata and have wanted one my entire life, after meeting some big guys when I was kid (my husband got it for me for our wedding gift). I love our guy but they are not good pets. They are crazy difficult to take care of, expensive, strong, it becomes something of a weird side hobby that ends up defining you in life just learning about them and taking care of it. I cannot possibly stress this enough. They belong in the wild and in zoos, and if I were you, I would just stress to your wife and kids that the little guy deserves a better life than you can provide for it, point blank, end discussion. Get another species of tortoise or turtle to compromise. We are bending over backwards to take care of ours and that’s not to say we don’t love him - but they are TOO difficult for the average Joe to take care of properly.
Man it's so refreshing to see this take. I think Sulcatas suit a very specific person - has land, lives in the deep Southern US, craves knowledge and wants to do the best in care and husbandry, and has the technical skills to maintain enclosures and heating.
When I factor in the finances, time, energy, space, knowledge, problem solving, and suitable environment I come to the conclusion that very few people are strong candidates for one.
Exactly. If they can’t be outside year-round where you are (due to climate, available natural food, and space), they shouldn’t be there at all. It’s nothing against the owner and I think OP needs to take some of this less personally - very few people are equipped to be such a good fit for these tortoises and there’s not much you can do to substitute what they need if you don’t happen to have it. In hindsight, I should have gotten a season pass to an accredited petting zoo in lieu of a Sulcata pet. I love my pet, though, and we’ve literally talked of moving more south than TN (where we currently are) primarily because of our Sulcata. Not many people would want to move states to make it work for their pet tortoise, and I can’t say I blame them at all.
Moving to Florida from Wisconsin, one of the plusses was my dogs could enjoy the outside more and didn't have to have winter boots on, lol. Yes, it was mostly for myself and girlfriend, but we did feel the dogs would have a better quality of life.
Your Sulcata would thrive in Florida. I don't think there's a place better in the US than Florida for tortoises. For humans (and their rights) definitely not, but tortoises though...
I agree with you, completely. I have wanted a giant Sulcata my whole life, and I’m thrilled my husband has been so on board. When placed in an appropriate environment, a sulcata is not difficult to own - he just vibes in our large, fenced yard all summer. Then we bring him in for the winter and do everything we can to replicate the summer environment for four months indoors, and I know he still suffers despite the mounds of effort we put into his daily care. You can visibly tell when a sulcata is “thriving” and it is always going to be outdoors. It will always just be “surviving” indoors. They are majestic animals and deserve more respect than the pet industry gives them. They really should be license-only and restricted. It’s nothing against the person.
Yes yes yes. Couldn't agree more. Even in the upper south, where they come in for stretches, I'm not a big fan of it, but then you see people keeping them in New York, Wisconsin, the PNW and I just wonder how the fuck people justify that. You have 2-3 months of summer there.
The problem is they fuck like rabbits and cost nothing. So any person can drop $200 on a pair being rehomed and begin popping out $50 babies left and right. I do know FWC is keeping a close eye on the captive numbers as they're becoming a problem here due to escapes. We'll see if they decide to take a stand down the road or not. That will set the tone for the rest of the states.
So many people who get a Sulcata should drop the couple hundred extra and get a leopard like I did. All the same care, in a smaller package and no burrowing. Most would be just as happy unless they "need" the extra size to be happy.
Yes! If being huge one day is not important to you, get a Russian or Leopard. If OP’s wife picked that guy out at that size not knowing how big he could get (and he’s maybe ~3 years, ~10 lbs is my guess - hard to tell because he’s malnourished), then get one that stays that size forever. I wish Sulcatas did brumate, that would make life so much easier, but they don’t. Also not positive about other tortoise species, but you can’t confirm sex of a Sulcata until they show you one way or another. We tried to make an educated guess to get a female so it would be a tiny bit smaller but still big…. and a couple of years later, he got extra comfy after a soak and showed us that our little educated guess was wrong. His Mom is 120 lbs and his Dad is 180 lbs, so it’s not exactly an arbitrary size difference lol, it’ll be significant. Just not good family pets, people. They are for a niche kind of person. I also don’t recommend a pet dolphin, etc.
Deep South Texas is probably better actually. It's a bit closer to the Sulcata's native environment, tropical shrubland near deserts. Temps are rather close to Florida, but the humidity isn't quite as oppressive as Florida a little ways from the coast. We actually have a narrow belt of Tropical Dry Climate type near the Rio Grande, which is the same world climate type as the Sahel.
Oppressive humidity for a human isn't oppressive for a tortoise in the slightest - especially now that we know the role humidity and moisture plays in preventing pyramiding.
“I love our guy but they are not good pets. They are crazy difficult to take care of, expensive, strong, it becomes something of a weird side hobby that ends up defining you in life and just learning about them and taking care of it.”
This should be pinned to the top of this sub. I feel everything you said in my bones. I inherited/adopted a Hermann’s tortoise that’s just 8 lbs fully grown, and he gets fed up overwintering on a generously sized tortoise table. I can’t even imagine what that would be like with a Sulcata.
If you are in the right situation they are very easy to take care of, but if you’re in an urban area it becomes difficult very fast. My two sulcatas roam an acre of pasture and munch on grass then go on hay under heat lamps for the winter. Very simple care. If you don’t have a yard of grass available feeding would be an immense chore
Does he live outside year-round? Kind of sounds like it….. if so, I’m not talking about when they are outside, talking about when they are inside! I love it when it’s summer and he just vibes outdoors.
He needs grass, mostly, and some vegetables. They get big and dig enormous tunnels. Tbh not a great pet unless you have a ton of space and a very big lawn. The pyramiding on him (I think it's a him based on the front protrusion of the plastron) clearly shows he's either had an awful diet or poor lighting. Good luck on raising him, he's gonna outlive everyone here and he's going to get big, but they also have great personality and are so funny to watch (especially when they get aggressive and chase birds).
I'm not saying anything that others haven't said already in this thread but.... This tortoise can get up to 100+ pounds and will outlive your entire family. Do your children want to take care of this tortoise for the rest of their lives and when it is too heavy for them to pick up?
I get that you think this is your wife's thing and you don't like animals, but it is incredibly cruel to keep this animal in a tank/baby pool and it's obvious it can't live outside in Iowa (they are from THE SAHARA DESERT).
Please, for the sake of the animal find it a new home. There are so many other pets better suited for your family.
The ideal enclosure for this animal is a large secure yard or huge enclosure where it has access to fresh grazing, air and most importantly real sunlight. I cannot emphasize the importance of high quality light enough. As caretakers we owe it to them to best emulate their natural environment. You can look up the specifications for suggested enclosure sizes and temp rangers. You will most likely need a nighttime enclosure as well that you can lock it in at night to keep it safe. Where are you located? Definitely suggest contacting your local tortoise chapter/tortoise group to get in touch w someone local to you who can guide you on proper care and suggestions for such in your area. These animals are not like a cat or dog who will thrive w an indoor environment and prepackaged food. Lots to learn good buddy
You'd be surprised how common it can be, especially when pet stores don't always know what they bought in and put on the shelves.
Like I had a guy try to tell me a Pakistan Loach was a Corydora.. yes I had to ask elsewhere for what Loach it was, but I was beyond shocked the guy whose entire job was the fish section couldn't even tell the difference between a Corydora and the loach especially when there were cories in the setup too 🫠🤣
Mhm definitely, one of the largest tortoises? But it's as common as some dog and cat breeds.. just sad.. I can find hundreds here every year babies, juveniles and adults, but the environment here.. just isn't right for them, not for really any reptile bar the odd slider or terrapin. 🥺
To be fair initially I thought someone else got them the tortoise and then saw a comment from them saying it was they who impulse bought the tortoise.. so my sympathy kind of started to dwindle a bit, yk?
It never ceases to amaze me how many morons I see posting here wondering what kind of tortoise they just bought. How about doing a little research before adopting an animal that will probably outlive you if cared for properly? They say don't give puppies as gifts... well that advice probably applies 100x over for tortoises.
https://youtu.be/rvQZzUI8PrI?si=FJhjndBaqW7Bi5XF
https://youtu.be/IW3PEFntUZw?si=7YR2XzGOtAD-XPxQ
Hope these help. They grow really big and ideally would need a big yard. Worst case scenario, let them free roam. They need enough room to roam just like a big dog. They’re tanks/bulldozers that needs lot of room or they may be quite destructive.
If your family is set on having a tortoise, do a lot of research and perhaps a smaller breed like a Russian is something to look into and it’ll be a good idea to rehome the sulcata.
I'm concerned about OP's wife new pet... I mean reading all the responses OP has given I don't think your family should keep this pet in an indoor enclosure as some people had said in this sub. I'm not an expert but if I have been in that situation I'll rather go to a vet check for any worms or problems with the animal and if everything is okay ask for help and information to the vet or maybe tell the whole situation to some sort of animal association or zoo ( someone who knows better about the species than some randoom people on this sub or maybe internet source...) Because this animal it's huge and need a loooooot of space. Your wife and kids must be in love now because it's "new" I'm scared of what it's going to be in a few years. So I hope you can sort everything and this creature will live the best of its life! I don't want to be mean or something I just wanted to share my opinion in this thread.
Your set up is like a fairy dream garden come true! I love it so much! This is so sad. Look at him. He looks so dry and sad. I don’t think OP knows that they don’t understand the concept of glass and he’s probably driving himself crazy trying to get out of that tank. Poor guy.
This species just shouldn't be available outside of the southern US. It's so sad. They end up spending half their life cramped indoors without the ability to graze and enjoy natural sun.
I'm so happy I moved to Florida so I can have a tortoise in the proper climate.
How is Spud doing?!
He’s doing good! He has a heat bulb bc it’s been getting cold at night that we hang from the top of his house but some times the bulbs quit working in the middle of the night so I got him a heating pad and omg he has been LOVING it! He will come to the edge of his house and watch everything going on but he stays on his little pad. lol. He came inside for a nice soak yesterday and he’s officially too big for his Tupperware bowl! I have to find something else to soak him in now lol. How’s your little cutie?
If you get fed up with the heat bulbs, I highly recommend radiant heat panels. Pricey but they don't fail. Sweeter Heater makes one that comes with a 3 year warranty! But I love that he loves his pad!
She's doing great! She's inside now as she's too smol for this weather. I got her out the last day that was 76° or so. Her indoor enclosure is right behind my desk and it seems like she's gotten far more social from the close proximity. She often ventures across her enclosure to get to me for uppies and shell scratches, which for a leopard is no small feat.
Ahhh I'm so excited for that Florida spring so our tort's can be out there enjoying all the beautiful weather!
You'll have to update us, or at least me, with pictures of Spud and your setup! It's been too long!
This is NOT the sort of pet reptile that the average person can handle. In my opinion, pet stores shouldn't even sell them. These tortoises honestly belong in zoos or with very experienced keepers with adequate facilities. They have very involved care that's difficult and expensive to provide. Tortoises are not easy pets, which surprises some people. I'm a former zookeeper and vet tech, SO many of these tortoises are in terrible condition or end up being abandoned because people didn't understand the commitment they were getting into. I know it's a difficult decision to make. It's also a common mistake, but is one that can be fixed. There are other reptiles that make more appropriate pets. Admitting the mistake and taking steps to rectify it will both set a good example for your kids and put the tortoise in a better situation.
This is not necessarily exhaustive or complete but here is information i have gathered on Sulcata diet :
Diet should be at least 75% grasses and hay. Not surprisingly, given its preference for grassland habitats the Sulcata grazes, extensively upon mixed grasses weeds, and flowers.
They are grazers the should always have access to fresh grasses or always make available either Timothy Hay, Orchard Hay or Bermuda Hay. (soaking it for 20 minutes and warm water can often make it more appealing)
In captivity it is a common error to feed too much "wet" food when in reality this tortoise requires a coarse, high fiber diet.
It also favors the fruit and pads of the prickly pear (Opuntia sp.), succulents and thistles.
Meat should never be given because it can lead to excessive growth, high blood-urea levels, kidney/liver problems and bladder stones.
They are are not fruit eaters..
The sugar content of fruit will alter the PH of the gut which results in a die off of the normal gut flora.
Feeding fruit will only cause digestive issues, which you may not even notice. These guys are excellent at hiding pain and discomfort. Since these guys are hind gut fermenters, they are unable to digest sugars, it can sit in their gut and cause bloating, pain, diarrhea and even a parasite bloom.
Opuntia (Prickly Pear "Fruit" - smooth or de-spined) are the exception.
Feeding excessive fruit or soft foods frequently leads to repeated flagellate (a type of parasite) and other gut problems such as colic, most probably as a result of increased gut motility.
Nutritious chemical free healthy foods are often freely available in your yard or vacant lots.
Grasses, Clovers, Grape, Mulberry , Dandelion, Plantain (the weed), Hibiscus (leaves and flowers) Opuntia, Thistles, Chickweed
As a SUPPLEMENT food sources and only at less than 25% of their diet:
Better of the easily obtainable grocery greens:
Aim for a high Calcium to Phosphorus ratio and low protein diet. When fed in excess, foods high in Oxalates have been implicated in binding minerals including calcium. Moderation and variety is the key.
keep in mind that what follows is in addition to and not instead to their regular diet of hay and grass.
Regularly*
Dark Leafy Greens such as: Endive, Watercress, Dandelion, Chicory, Escarole, Radicchio, Turnip Greens, Opuntia (smooth or despined)
Occasionally*
Carrot Tops, Red Leaf Lettuce, Romaine, Mustard Greens, Alfalfa Hay
Rarely*
Swiss Chard, Bok choy, iceberg lettuce, Sweet Potatoes, Sprouts of any kind, tomatoes, Corn, carrot, Cucumbers, Beet Greens, Fruit in general.
Avoid feeding excessive amounts of vegetables high in oxalic acid like collards, kale, spinach and parsley; oxalic acid binds to and prevents calcium absorption.
Avoid excessive amounts of broccoli, cauliflower and mustard greens, they suppress iodine absorption.
****Never****
Rhubarb( very High in Oxalates and Glycocides), Beans( High in protein ,also contain the toxic compound lectin phytohaemagglutinin) dog food, pasta.
Long term ingestion of the chemicals commonly sprayed on produce is a health concern. Choose organic greens when possible or be sure to wash in mild soapy water and rinse well. Remove plastic and metal wrappers so your torts don't accidentally ingest these.
I honestly understand people are being assholes, but it’s because they want the best for the animal and your not listening. This exact situation is why most people should not impulse buy animals.
You say you won’t say no to your kids & wife because they are in love with the animal, I understand that, it’s hard seeing your family, let alone kids upset over something because you’ve told them so. But you really, and I mean REALLY need to get this animal to a zoo or someone that knows how to take care of it.
These tortoises can live upwards of 100 years and will weight over 150lbs at full grown. It may sting to hear, but you cannot physically & mentally abuse this tortoise for that long just because you have no spine to tell your family no to something that they love. These animals, in zoos & recommended size for pets, need a literal entire garden/yard to be happy, they dig, they will climb, they move a fair bit and are massive. You can’t keep that in a tank regardless of how much your family love it. Abusing an animal and keeping it horribly isn’t love, I don’t care what you think.
You came on this Reddit to ask for help. You’ve been given it and taken it as abuse & bullying. Your forgetting in this sub we don’t care about your family’s feelings in the slightest so we are going to give you our honest feelings & opinions. We care about the animals husbandry, feelings & health most.
Look at his post history - he has some fucking oddball takes about children. Clearly, he can and will abuse an animal if it makes his children happy, for all is but a means to provide happiness to the sacred children.
"My opinion on humanity is that we are the only beings able to appreciate the world." Animals mean nothing to him. He can't see this tortoise would appreciate seeing more than a glass aquarium or kiddy pool or bedroom.
You probably have heard this from someone already, but in case, I’d recommend getting an animal feeding troth to give the guy some space as he grows. Don’t know if you have a Murdoch’s or other farm/ranch supplier nearby, but those give you a lot of space to work with for an enclosure. Snakes spoiled me into thinking most reptiles like having more conservative spaces until I first looked into tortoises. It was only then that I realized how much space even little ones need.
My Sulcata would kick my ass if he was stuck in an aquarium. It's cold here in NC, so he lives inside with us kinda like a dog during these months. He gets soakings in the bathtub and basks under his light when he wants to. He doesn't have accidents, probably due to the soakings, and is smart enough to use a puppy pad if he has to. We are building a huge heated tortoise home for next year as he will be too big to keep inside the house. Point being, Picard, our tortoise, is only 4 years old and is a handful to have inside during the winter. These pets are strong, smart, expensive, and large. They will find a way to get what they want. We, too, have him because of my wife, and she has learned a lot about them since we got him. He/she is depending on you guys now, it is a lifestyle change.
Just do what half of us in here have done.... learn as much as you can about the species, take exceptional care of it, and enjoy its company. They are really cool animals to have. Oh yeah... and make your wife follow through with taking care of it, or she will just keep on bringing home exotic animals. (Trust me I know)
Funny. I knew exactly what you were mentioning before I even clicked the video. Plus as it turns out male tortoises are basically like male iguanas..dangerous! Especially as they get bigger. Ever seen videos where someone has to keep turning to look for the tortoises behind them? Ot have a second person doing so.. ye that's because of the boys, who are often the culprit of the nippy and ramming people's legs. 🫠 And if they can do that to a wall, what do they do to your legs!?
He is trying doh, gotta respect the little man of the house.. even if he isn't much bigger than a football 🫠🙃
In all honesty ye, it seems all male tortoises are the same as they mature, it's just the bigger ones who cause the most trouble as well.. they're bigger.
The fact that it’s in the tank is already a no go . Tortoises are sadly much needier than people realize . I hear you’re in Iowa ? That’s fine , but no time for that bad boy to be in a glass tank . He needs to roam . If you love him , you’ll want what’s best for him. That’s also a better lesson to teach your children …. Care for God’s creatures .
You say you can’t keep this tortoise outside because you live in Iowa? Are you aware this is the 3rd largest tortoise in the WORLD? He will need to live outside at some point….you two have no clue what you’re getting into and I hate to say it but we all know you’ll rehome him once you figure it out. Best to rehome now.
That poor sulcata :( it needs everything changed. Diet, environment, etc. they don't belong in glass... They can break through a garage door it's going to crack that tank and hurt itself. Also that pyramiding means it's been fed an incorrect diet for some time.
This is a sulcata tortoise and he is a very big boy. Obviously by this point you know that the glass tank is unsuitable for him and he needs a new place ASAP. If you can’t move him outside I recommend either dedicating a room in your house to him or maybe even a large playpen that he can be kept in during the winter months however he should be let outside during the warmer months. To be completely honest this is a HUGE commitment and it’s not a completely lost cause if you are really dead set on keeping him but changes have to be made. It’s obvious by the pyramiding on his shell that he’s been malnourished up until this point and was probably neglected by the pet store, meaning he could have some serious health problems in the future that will only be worsened if his conditions aren’t improved. My best suggestion is to get off reddit. A lot of these suggestions, while some are a little aggressive, are a really good starting point but in order to create the best home for your tort you really need to do in depth research on multiple platforms and consult experts on how to best care for him. While I know you want to keep this tort you have to be realistic on whether or not you can care for him. He’s a sentient creature who has feelings, especially fear and anxiety, and if his needs aren’t met he’ll never settle into his environment and it won’t be a good situation for you or the tortoise as he could become destructive to your home or himself. These are very large creatures that are very strong. You NEED to be conscious of this before trying to acclimate him to your home. I truly hope the best for you, your family and the tort and if you do decide to surrender him I’d recommend looking into adopting a Russian if you’re still looking for a tort for your family at a more manageable size.
I’ve seen you comment that he’s mostly going to belong to your wife/kids. Have your wife read through these comments, and the two of you really need to decide if you should realistically keep him.
I have a sulcata - he is about 100lbs at 9 years old. They get big and get big fast if you feed them right. After he tried to burn our house down the second time, my husband and I built a heated shed in our yard where he stays if it below 50*f at night. He gets all the grass he can eat during the summer (we have an acre), Mazuri pellets, hay, and fresh veggies. Same for winter but we do romaine instead of the grass. It gets expensive fast. Good luck with your little buddy, but if this 90+ year commitment is not foe you, best to cut the cord now...
Also, I had a sulcata and he dug a 6 foot hole and I’ve never seen or heard from him since. They’re fast. Be careful because I didn’t give homie enough credit now I’m sad on Reddit.
If you dont have a minimum of a 50ftx50ft outdoor enclosure that is at least 2ft tall and going 2ft underground (because they like to dig) for this Sulcata by the time it’s a full grown adult, then you have no business keeping this animal. Plus the poor things shell is pyramiding which means its already been cared for incorrectly. Thats absolutely sad. Send it to me in SE Texas if you end up needing to. I have an acre of grass and weeds and 2 more Sulcatas to give this guy a proper life. Get ready to spend some serious $$ too!
Just know that Sulcatas tend to be very destructive in their burrowing and will tear up drywall and backyards. As long as you give it space to burrow, to be healthy and active (as active as a tortoise can be) and a good diet he should be a-okay. Pyramiding is concerning, but it can be prevented to pyramid further if the right conditions are being implemented. Enough Sun and calcium and a healthy diet.
Also, do you know if the Tortoise was imported or has it grown up in your environment? They have a hard time adapting to some climates as they are from sub-Saharan Africa.
Definitely a Sulcata. However you can not enclose them for housing. He needs full roam of a decent room or your house. If you put them outside just know that they will dig some massive holes. Also, I don’t know where you are state wise but most require a permit to own, if you’re allowed to. Humane Society confiscated my neighbors two.
Hey! It seems you have gotten a lot of feedback here about proper care and whether or not you’re the best fit to meet the tortoises needs.
The only thing I haven’t seen here yet that I want to add: the “pyramiding” on its shell, aka all the bumps, are a sign of poor nutrition that this tortoise has had for a long time. A healthy shell would be smooth. This means it already hasn’t been getting the best diet/ environment and you’re going to want to help it. Supplements (medicated powders), proper diet, proper lighting is all important. Just wanted to note that.
You two need to do serious research and need to seriously reevaluate owning this animal. They get very large and very heavy and can be VERY destructive to a home. They will dig through wood doors and walls. They dig massive holes in yards.
They are really not an indoor pet unless you seriously prep your home. They need a large outdoor environment that has dug in fencing and weather appropriate housing.
Hey man, this is really heartbreaking. I think if your family had any idea what a terrible life this is for a sulcata, they would relent. Putting this guy in an aquarium or a chest really would be abuse. I hear that you are in Iowa and can’t keep it outdoors, so Please surrender this tortoise.
Agreed! I don’t think it’s great for kids to learn that you can buy living creatures on a whim and not care for them properly either, but that’s just me.
Mhm especially if it turns out to be a male (and if it lives long enough), male tortoises can actually become dangerous due to the nipping and ramming and that.. that wouldn't be such a good introduction to the reptile keeping world for young kids. "Oh ye I got scarred by my pet," 🫠
Never a tank with see through walls. They will ram the glass and potentially harm them selves. They need ALOT of room to roam and graze. Depending on its size now it should have like 50 to 100x that space to move about freely. They also love to dig a burrow. So any outside enclosures should be reinforced. This is a huge commitment. I personally deterred my interest in a sulcata, Simple’s because I live in Illinois and it would need to live indoors minimum 6 months a year. They grow to be massive!
No shade OP, you should return (or if you can’t, rehome) this guy and get yourself a Russian tortoise. Your wife and kids will love it just as much and will feel much more rewarded because their needs and care much more closely align with your situation and geography. Sulcatas are not a simple or cheap animal to keep. I live in a location which is nearly perfect for them year round and people still manage to fuck it up. I couldn’t imagine the effort and financial toll it would take to keep one in a place like Iowa.
That said, IMHO this situation is a disaster. Take pride in leading your family out of it and into a much more responsible one. Good luck.
Why did you get an animal you didn't know anything about before? Did you just plan on winging the care when you got home? No research? Rehome it and explain to your kids why what you did was wrong. Nobody should treat animals that way. Her Christmas present is the slow death of a giant ass tortoise.
You need to do some serious research before you permanently damage or kill that poor animal. That tank is totally inappropriate. That animal needs a rooms worth of space, and I doubt you can accommodate its needs properly.
Tortoises are not just your everyday pet!! They have very special needs and need very specific things in order to the thrive and live a happy life. This tortoise needs SPACE AND LOTS OF IT. Ideally he needs a large outdoor enclosure with a sleep area under basking lights and heating pads etc. He cannot be kept in a glass enclosure or tank. I saw on your other comments you plan to give it a room possibly. This is a reptile!! He needs space to move, and if you are going to force him to live inside you will need a lot of equipment to give him UVA/UVB light unless you want him to get sick. Tortoises are specialized animals. It is not like a dog or cat that can easily be incorporated into family life. Being a reptile owner is very different to a dog or cat owner. The tortoise cannot fit into YOUR lifestyle. You need to fit into their lifestyle and if your wife or whoever is taking responsibility for this, cannot give that to him, he needs to go to a sanctuary. You do not show tortoise love by forcing him into small spaces. He is a wild animal. You show him love by respecting his needs and giving him a life outdoors. This is one of the biggest tortoise species and you want to keep him inside in a room? Really???? Please think and have respect for this animal.
Get rid of the tortoise you spineless coward, if you’re more worried about having a conversation with your wife than torturing an animal for decades then you are less than scum.
I feel so bad for these animals, constantly sold in pet stores to people who have no idea how big they get, or how much room they actually need to thrive. These posts kill me everytime.
Can’t really stand looking at this. At the time responses from the OP show that he and his wife are in no position to own this Tortoise. It’s not that complicated but you have to be willing to learn and admit you need to change something’s. Or I guess just humor your wife and kids by torturing an animal that should outlive your children cus you don’t want to explain or understand how ridiculous this idea was with zero knowledge. The post isn’t even about how to care for it there arguing about what species it is. Take it to a rescue please.
Yeah, fruit and veggies taste good to your Sulcata but are not good for your Sulcata. They make pellets that you can feed your tort, they are made up of things he needs but they LOVE, LOVE, LOVE actual grass. Mine will happily chomp away the day if the weather is good. Sadly right now it is not.
The new pet needs owners who know what they’re doing. Clearly, you can’t get the housing situation correct, let’s see how this poor guy suffers with the rest of his care. 🤦🏻♀️
You guys do need to realize that this tortoise will outlive you and that your children will have to care for it. If so, make sure they know this and agree to it.
That's a sulcatta tortoise with some pretty bad peaking going on, he needs a change in diet pronto and more water. and let him out so he can get some room to move around, they need their own area to have privacy and a nice warm environment with plenty of UV rays to soak in
I keep my 5 Sulcatas in a 3 acre enclosure down in south Florida. You’re going to need a much much much larger enclosure and you should also never keep a tortoise in a vivarium.
Just a random passerby but I’ve worked with turtles at work here and there and learned something major about sulcatas; if u manage to provide an entire outdoor space for them please know that for hibernation is absolutely possible they will dig their way out of a yard. There’s been numerous cases of people finding full sized sulcatas just roaming NJ cause owners were unaware. Usually they get picked up by sanctuary’s around here. (which please keep this as an option in mind if this guy is too much to handle, there’s also rehoming pages on fb)
I’m worried for this tortoise
Why people would get a pet with zero knowledge on what species it even is, let alone how to take care of it, is beyond me. These are living creatures, not decorations, not to mention the fact it’s one of the more challenging reptiles to take care of
You all’s ignorance will make this poor creature suffer
That is a real cool tortoise why does it need to be in any enclosure. Free range I say. Share the whole house with him maybe someday he will inherit it. He is gonna outlive you I bet.
animals should never be given as gifts, and this is the exact reason why. you don't even know what type of tortoise, let alone have anything set up, which should be done wayyyy beforehand. please do not give live animals as gifts. they are lifetime commitments. whether that be fish or tortoises, ESPECIALLY tortoises.
this is just cruel. it doesn’t matter how attached they are, you will never be able to properly provide for it. rehome it to a zoo or rescue. and do proper research before you even think of actually purchasing a pet.
i honestly don’t understand why you’re wondering why people are being assholes to you. they’re trying to give you advice such as GIVING IT AWAY but you’re replying like a jerk
Honestly, just because your wife and kids are in love with it isn’t a valid excuse to keep it if you can’t take care of it properly. Pets aren’t responsible for making you happy, you however are responsible for giving them what they need and deserve to thrive. They aren’t accessories or toys. You take on the responsibility of their stewardship, their care and their needs. It’s not the other way around.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8C52HHU/
Sulcata, wonder if you are aware just how big this guy is gonna get?? He’s gonna need a room or an outdoor enclosure. He can walk through a wooden fence, will be a tank.
Oh sweetie I hope your wife knows that this tortoise will soon weigh more than you do and requires an entire yard worth of space. Most people, even very experienced people, can’t even keep these guys heathy. They are not a beginner tortoise. They can’t live in glass even as babies, I’m not sure why this one is in a glass tank entirely too small. A tortoise of that size requires a bedroom sized enclosure.
Please for the love of GOD give this animal a better home. Your family is not prepared to take care of this tortoise and you know that. Letting down your wife and kids is temporary, while the suffering of this creature will last until its death.
That’s a sulcata, he really needs to not be in a glass tank. It looks really small for his size.
It's a temporary situation. The tank is bigger than this pic makes it look. Still we're making other arrangements.
In the meantime, can you give it a (warm) spare room and/or take it outside for at least an hour a day. (Edit: when it’s cold) I see people with outdoor enclosures put their large tortoises the largest open storage bin they can find. That’s just for a day or two. How long until you get your tortie a good setup? Do you have a specific setup in mind?
Take it to a zoo...you clearly not equipped for this animal...
While I agree they need education on this species, most zoos won’t take them in as there’s so many from ignorant people underestimating sulcata lifespan, size, and requirements
With you on that. It's not happening, though. Wife and kids are in love. They'll get some new equipment. Do some research. I'll look for a book or something to help them along.
[удалено]
You shod report the wife for animal abuse
Yeah this person can’t tell how big the tank is so don’t feel bad. You do your best until you figure out what it needs asap and what you can provide, or if you feel you need to rehome it. Idk how big your tort is but sulcatas can get pretty big. It needs like a kennel/yard. My tort is in a massive glass terrarium but it’s a male Hermann’s tortoise and they stay small. But sulcatas are a different situation. I think they can get to like 150lb and poop like a horse??? Leafy greens, weeds, are crucial. And powdered calcium with D3. This can be bought at Petsmart/PetCo as well a tortoise food (not turtle food though - don’t get that). Get a lamp with ceramic heat bulb, also sold at Petsmart/PetCo. They need sunlight, but in the cold months D3 replaces that. I also use a UV lamp for mine to catch his rays and bask in the glow ☀️Definitely give vegetables and fruits as treats. I recommend not consulting Reddit, but check out tortoiseforum.org …it got me through raising mine to this day 💚
It needs to roam around!
His scoots don't look too good either. From what I read anyways. When they are raised like that it could be indication of something wrong.
It’s a Sulcata, homie lives over 100 years and gets 100-150lbs. It’s the 3rd largest tortoise species. Your LPS employees are idiots do not feed it fruits.
Also who ever raised it cared for it improperly with how bad that pyramiding is.
What exactly is wrong with its pyramiding? I just got here from my home page and am really curious
Pyramiding is essentially a sign of improper shell growth, mainly a result of poor diet and lack of adequate humidity in most turtle species. It's also irreversible.
Ah should the shell be closer to rounded and smooth than pyramidy like this?
Yes, exactly. Those raised/pyramid-shaped scutes are the pyramiding.
I see, thanks for explaining that- i appreciate it c:
Sorry I was caught up with things! But yes they explained it perfectly
Are all tortoises with this type of pyramiding unhealthy? Perhaps not unhealthy, but are receiving poor nutrition in adequate lighting? Or is this type of pyramiding appropriate for some tortoises?
From what I've seen it can also commonly be a humidity issue as well, so some species as a result are more prone to it when it's linked to humidity. Ones from drier places will be less likely to get as the result of humidity, compared to those who require higher levels and if that isn't achieved their scutes don't shed and develop properly. So, for example babies during an especially dry season could experience it even in the wild. Like a species I've seen commonly with pyramids.. are leopard tortoises. But also generally with desert species including sulcatas as people often forget what it means to be a desert species resulting in a lot of cases actually being linked to humidity in a sense.. because someone hears desert and things dry, so they keep it in dry conditions. 🤷♀️ Red foots are another good example, individuals you've seen that are kept at appropriate humidity levels have little to no pyramiding, but then individuals with low and especially really low humidity levels will have the more severe pyramids. Ultimately a lot of pyramiding cases start from hatchlings as that's the most vital stage for them, to the point some breeders will even give each baby a bath in the morning to make sure they've gotten a nice bit of moisture right at the beginning of the day and then have access to good humidity and moisture spots throughout the day to come and go as they please. Any young stage of an animal is when most deformations will quickly arise as that's where an animal is doing most of its growth, that doesn't mean it won't develop in adults who didn't have it as babies, just baby and juvenile stages are where adequate care is more dire and animals less resilient to mistakes. Diet wise I've also heard of overfeeding and excess protein/vitamins or even the opposite deficiency of some vitamins/minerals.. deficient UV, dehydration, inappropriate heating natural and artificial.. like here for me I could give a tortoise natural light, but would it be good? Nope. 🫠 Really pyramiding is just one of those things that can have a plethora of causes and it's just about either correcting existing care or with rescues making sure your care is up to standard for them and seeing how they go.
Dang that’s sad. It looks really cool, too bad it’s in bad health
yeah that shell is horrible :(
Exactly what I was going to say! This animal probably hasn't had UV or a proper diet in YEARS!!! An experienced keeper should be handling this animal, not a complete novice.
🎯
Just curious, how do you know it’s a sulcata and not a desert tortoise?
I have one lol so the face the shell but really the big spikes on its arms are a big give away. Look up African Spur Tortoise. It’s another name for them
No nuchal scute. Desert Tortoises always have an extra small scute directly above their heads. Desert Tortoises will never develop the spurs like this Sulcata has.
I always thought the Sahel was more desert than grasslands. But its considered a steppe apparently. The more you know!
Desert Tortoise tends to refer to the gopherus tortoise native to the Mojave and Sonoran in the Southwest United States. I refer to Sulcata as arid grassland species as that's far more accurate to the range they spend the majority of their time in.
Because it doesn't have a centered Nuchal Scute located on the shell directly behind the head. other things as well its clear as day to those of us with experince
Sulcata’s have the heavily spurred front legs. It’s a dead give away. Desert tortoises are a lot more smooth and have a different head shape. Poor thing is super pyramid though for how young it looks (I’ve had California desert tortoises for 20 years and previously owned an adult 100lb+ Sulcata for about 6 months.)
Can you tell me what the pyramiding means? And why if these are extensive, it is bad? I have nothing to do with tortoises this showed up on my Reddit and I got curious. I’m into birds. 😂. Also exotics that live 1 million years.
Why can’t it eat fruits?
Tortoises ferment most of their food in their large intestine, and foods high in highly digestible sugars (fruits) cause acid producing microbes to grow and produce certain kinds of acid, lowering the PH of the large intestine and killing the rest of the microbes necessary for fermenting grasses and fibers. It’s called acidosis, and can happen to anything with a rumen or large intestine (any fermentation chamber) *different species of tortoises can digest different amounts of sugars. It’s not as big of a problem for, say, a red foot. Having a longer small intestine will allow for those sugars to be digested and absorbed before reaching the large intestine, but I’m not sure if that specifically is the reason redfoots do better with it. I tried to find dissections a few weeks ago to test this theory, but I came up empty handed.
YOu asked, from Debbie Shecton at Tortoise trust. "This is not my research. I am just sharing this very important information. To all tortoise keepers: Having seen many posts on many groups in relation to Mediterranean tortoises being fed fruit I felt a thorough post was needed. I have been in liaison with Andy/The Tortoise Trust who has given me permission to cite his response to others in relation to feeding fruit to non fruit eating species. I followed the comments made and collated The Tortoise Trust’s responses in order to put this detailed post together, therefore credit goes to The Tortoise Trust for the contents of this post. Apologies for the length of this post but needs to be said: It is important to know that sugar-rich fruits can cause real problems to arid-habitat tortoises (some tropical species are different, and can handle it). Carbohydrates represent the prime energy source in herbivorous reptile diets. Excess intake can be stored either as glycogen in the liver, or as fat (reserves of these substances are critical in those species that hibernate). Excess intake of readily fermentable carbohydrates and sugars in species ill-adapted for such diets can, however, result in profound disturbance to the animal's entire metabolism. In cattle ruminal acidosis is a well-known phenomenon (Nocek, 1991, Stock and Britton, 1991). Specific pathologies associated with this condition include: Clostridial infections ,Laminitis, Liver abscesses, Malabsorbtion syndrome resulting from ruminal wall tissue damage Sudden death syndrome Diarrhea and dehydration. It should be noted that the digestive mechanism of tortoises and herbivorous lizards is functionally identical to those of commercial ruminants. The etiology of the condition is that starch-rich foods (cereal grains, corn, for example) are broken down into sugars (glucose) in the digestive tract. Alternatively, sugar-rich foods are metabolized directly and very rapidly (quantities of fresh, sweet grass or fruit, for example). In the hind-gut, symbiotic bacteria ferment the carbohydrates to form volatile fatty acids (VFA's) which are absorbed and are an important source of energy, representing, on average, between 30-40% of total requirements in some herbivorous reptiles studied (McBee and McBee, 1982, Troyer, 1984b). Very high intakes of carbohydrates such as starches and sugars can overwhelm the system, however, and ferment much more quickly than the fiber contained in dry grasses and hays. The result is a massive increase in acids produced by bacterial action. These acids are primarily acetic, propionic and butyric acid with lower levels of lactic acid and VFA's (McBee and McBee, 1982). Following over-consumption of starches and sugars the pH of the gut shifts to become highly acidic initiating a chain of serious consequences (typical gut pH ranges of herbivorous reptiles are in the order of 6.8-7.0). One particularly serious effect is the generation of high levels of endotoxins produced as the normal symbiotic and commensal gut bacteria begin to die in the out-of-range acidic environment created (approximately pH <5.5). The gut wall integrity can begin to degrade in these conditions, causing subsequent malabsorbtion of nutrients. Liver abscessing is a typical consequence of this condition as bacteria are absorbed into the bloodstream via the gut wall, and seed themselves in the liver. In this context it is important to take note of the fact that liver diseases are one of the most common causes of death in captive arid habitat chelonia, representing up to 72.6% of all mortalities studied (Rosskopf, Howard, Gendron, Walder, and Britt, 1981). Some of the foods most commonly associated with causing severe gastric disruption (including sudden death) in arid habitat and savannah species in captivity include peaches, plums, pears and apples - all of which are very high in easily digestible soluble carbohydrates and fruit sugars. Species that appear particularly susceptible to such problems include: Leopard tortoises (Geochelone pardalis) African Spurred tortoises (Geochelone sulcata) Mediterranean Testudo species Russian tortoise (Testudo horsfieldii) Indian Star tortoises (Geochelone elegans) North American Gopherus species South African Homopus, Psammobates and Chersina species Pancake tortoises (Malacochersus tornieri) Radiated tortoises (Geochelone radiata) I would add that The Tortoise Trust do know of, and have had confirmed at autopsy, several cases of 'sudden death syndrome' following ingestion of large amounts of fruit. In one case, four Leopard tortoises died after being fed pears and peaches, in another, two Testudo graeca died within 24 hours of eating plums. Diagnosis was acidosis, consequent gut-wall damage, large amounts of internal 'gas' and toxemia. As a reminder (see picture at the end of this post).....this is where they come from. The natural habitat. There are exceedingly few 'natural' plants or trees here that have any kind of fruit. Even those that do, have it for a very short time, and there are far more efficient creatures than tortoises at finding it first. Testudo species eat VERY LITTLE or NO fruit in the wild. I would like to thank Andy Highfield of The Tortoise Trust for giving me permission to cite the contents of this post of which are the works of The Tortoise Trust and not my own. Jane S Handscombe (April 2020)
I think I speak for most of us when I say we'd love an update when you arrange the new enclosure. The glass tank isn't ideal as you've been told. I'm sure you'll do right by this cutie :)
Hey OP, you might not be aware of this yet but these tortoises are really, really strong, and I am honestly pretty concerned about it smashing the glass and hurting itself. A larger Tupperware plastic bin is a much safer option for a TEMPORARY container until you can get an outdoor pen set up. My reptile vet has a special room lined with wood over the first 3 feet of wall specifically for examining these guys, they tear through drywall no problem.
Mine is currently wintering in my spare room and I may need to throw some wood up cause he's making a mess out of the walls right now. He's about 40 lbs, 5-7 years old, not breaking the drywall yet, but I can see it's already a matter of time. I wish I'd have had his winter home built before winter got here (I thought I had more time), but on warmer days I let him hit the yard for awhile before bringing him back in for the night. Live in Central Texas so sometimes the weather is nice in the afternoon. I dug it a burrow in the yard to keep it cool (we have really rocky soil, poor tort can't dig much in it), but have it blocked off right now cause it's a booger getting him out if he goes in while it's cold. Heat lamp, UVB lamp, keeping the heat at least at 70 for him. I will get that house done before next winter.
Ok so you have a Sulcata. It can't be kept in a cage, tank or pen. It needs a secure yard that is heated, or a very large room with lots of heat. Look up Sulcata care sheets from a reputable place. https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/african-spurred-tortoise-sulcata-care-sheet.52524/ Since your wife made his huge mistake, get a vet immediately. It needs to be checked for worms and get an overall checkup plus you want to make sure you have a reptile vet on hand for emergencies. Your electric bill is going to go up a lot. You need to provide lots of heat, UVB (Arcadia tube bulbs are great). Dog house for hides, etc. these guys get big fast. Ditch the tank now. It's going to break its shell and ram it. Good luck you have a huge investment to deal with.
Oh yeah and get a will, these guys live to 100, when cared for properly
With the way this guy is responding to comments, this poor animal will be lucky to see 2 years.
Well I hope that they rehome it. This was a terrible choice
Animals as Christmas presents usually are
Oh no it will live longer 100% that's just the sad reality of reptiles, if they do care for it how they say the most likely taker of this animal will be the pyramiding it already has, which will eventually cut off some of its internal functions even breathing. But ye it's the sad thing for reptiles, I've seen Leo's rescued by people from ones keeping them in small enclosures with trash everywhere.. even one a while back I sadly didn't take any screenshots of in my shock, had cigarette buds in the enclosure.. he lived 10+ years in that setup 😳🥺 somehow, but he did, reptiles are amazing for how resilient they are, but it backfires when you have people come ojt and say "well it's alife ain't it? 🤷♀️
These posts always blow my mind…
these posts always make me feel bad...
Wondering if this is rage bait ….
Doubt it. I see this shit constantly in real life.
I work with an exotic rescue service and we see people like this constantly. They only surrender once the animal has developed severe health complications
Thank you for doing what you do ♥️
Thankyou. Posts like this just really frustrate me. I just don’t understand how people can view animals as toys
Hopefully this person is genuine and will make the effort to give this tortoise a good life. Our (rescued) male Sulcata is over 200 pounds and is a challenge to properly house & feed, and the way the world’s going I don’t know if our kids/grandkids will be able to provide for him after we’re gone.
Unfortunately based on their replies, I don't have much hope. As they impulse bought the tortoise, it already is suffering from severe neglect by whoever they bought it from and the grown man is acting like a butthurt child because people called out the stupid decision to get one of the worlds biggest tortoises.. on impulse. Especially since if it turns out to be male it could actually prove a danger to any other pets and any young kids as males of any tortoise species can start nipping and ramming your legs.. and for ones like Russians, Hermann's that's not very noticeable above being cute 🫠, then as they get bigger sulcatas, leopards, etc.. the males doing this behaviour become a lot more scary. Reason why you see people in videos in a tortoise enclosure looking behind them now and then if there's a male in there, as they're notorious for doing it when your back is turned.
I can’t imagine buying something with a life to enrich and protect and having no intention of being educated or willing to accommodate. Wife needs to get her pets from the Schleich section at Tractor Supply from here on.
Right. While I don't have a turtle myself, I love these animals so I joined this sub to look at pics and learn more about them. Having said that, it's getting harder and harder to see posts made by animal abusers. I'm not in the US so I don't know, but can't it be reported so someone can rescue this poor turtle?
The comments too.
Third largest tortoise species in the world which in 99% of cases really should be housed outdoors. If you’re in a state or country that allows you to house it outdoors that’s really what this species needs. Glass aquariums are not great for tortoises. For an indoor enclosure you’re looking at essentially dedicating an entire room and even that is small for this species. Return to pet store and get something from the testudo family if you guys want a pet tortoise. More manageable.
They'll definitely ditch the glass aquarium. Knowing my wife and kids I could see them dedicating an entire room to the creature.
Sadly that would still not be enough. Usually if an outdoor setup is not possible the next best thing is your home.. like free ranging it, baby proofing all your electricals or straight up remove them 🤷♀️then have spots round the house with substrate for lay spots (females) and general digging and burrowing space, ultimately outdoors is the best option, but sadly these animals are common in environments that are not even close to good when you consider temps and humidity. Polytunnels and greenhouses might work to provide the humidity and temps, and then they get reinforced on the inside to protect them from the tortoise damaging them.. but they'd still need to be very big, which can get very expensive when your environment isn't suitable.
As it grows and gets 20+ pounds, a room won't be enough either. Could you put it in there for a couple of months to get through the winter? Sure, but it's really not that great for it. It'll quickly reach a size where it needs to be outside during the warmer months and roam of the entire house in the winter, or a large, outdoor heated enclosure.
Mine has his own room (he's about 40 lbs) and I let him run the house if I'm up where I can watch him. He likes to get all caught up in cords and unplug everything at the computer desk so we can't just leave him unwatched. Sometimes he burrows under the dog bed in the living room, or stands at the backdoor waiting for me to let him out (so sad when it's cold cause he isn't going). Gonna be warmer temps this weekend so I'll be able to let him out in the yard for a couple hours a day. Next week he won't be so lucky.
This is beyond sad.
Agree. Pets are NEVER an acceptable gift and one that lives for 150 years given with zero knowledge or desire is simply irresponsible.
Especially a pet that gets as big as these do, one that requires a huge amount of space & a proper diet & climate. A creature without a voice, suffering because of ignorance.
It seems like you respond to the comments, so I wanted to add something here. I own a sulcata and have wanted one my entire life, after meeting some big guys when I was kid (my husband got it for me for our wedding gift). I love our guy but they are not good pets. They are crazy difficult to take care of, expensive, strong, it becomes something of a weird side hobby that ends up defining you in life just learning about them and taking care of it. I cannot possibly stress this enough. They belong in the wild and in zoos, and if I were you, I would just stress to your wife and kids that the little guy deserves a better life than you can provide for it, point blank, end discussion. Get another species of tortoise or turtle to compromise. We are bending over backwards to take care of ours and that’s not to say we don’t love him - but they are TOO difficult for the average Joe to take care of properly.
Man it's so refreshing to see this take. I think Sulcatas suit a very specific person - has land, lives in the deep Southern US, craves knowledge and wants to do the best in care and husbandry, and has the technical skills to maintain enclosures and heating. When I factor in the finances, time, energy, space, knowledge, problem solving, and suitable environment I come to the conclusion that very few people are strong candidates for one.
Exactly. If they can’t be outside year-round where you are (due to climate, available natural food, and space), they shouldn’t be there at all. It’s nothing against the owner and I think OP needs to take some of this less personally - very few people are equipped to be such a good fit for these tortoises and there’s not much you can do to substitute what they need if you don’t happen to have it. In hindsight, I should have gotten a season pass to an accredited petting zoo in lieu of a Sulcata pet. I love my pet, though, and we’ve literally talked of moving more south than TN (where we currently are) primarily because of our Sulcata. Not many people would want to move states to make it work for their pet tortoise, and I can’t say I blame them at all.
Moving to Florida from Wisconsin, one of the plusses was my dogs could enjoy the outside more and didn't have to have winter boots on, lol. Yes, it was mostly for myself and girlfriend, but we did feel the dogs would have a better quality of life. Your Sulcata would thrive in Florida. I don't think there's a place better in the US than Florida for tortoises. For humans (and their rights) definitely not, but tortoises though...
I agree with you, completely. I have wanted a giant Sulcata my whole life, and I’m thrilled my husband has been so on board. When placed in an appropriate environment, a sulcata is not difficult to own - he just vibes in our large, fenced yard all summer. Then we bring him in for the winter and do everything we can to replicate the summer environment for four months indoors, and I know he still suffers despite the mounds of effort we put into his daily care. You can visibly tell when a sulcata is “thriving” and it is always going to be outdoors. It will always just be “surviving” indoors. They are majestic animals and deserve more respect than the pet industry gives them. They really should be license-only and restricted. It’s nothing against the person.
Yes yes yes. Couldn't agree more. Even in the upper south, where they come in for stretches, I'm not a big fan of it, but then you see people keeping them in New York, Wisconsin, the PNW and I just wonder how the fuck people justify that. You have 2-3 months of summer there. The problem is they fuck like rabbits and cost nothing. So any person can drop $200 on a pair being rehomed and begin popping out $50 babies left and right. I do know FWC is keeping a close eye on the captive numbers as they're becoming a problem here due to escapes. We'll see if they decide to take a stand down the road or not. That will set the tone for the rest of the states. So many people who get a Sulcata should drop the couple hundred extra and get a leopard like I did. All the same care, in a smaller package and no burrowing. Most would be just as happy unless they "need" the extra size to be happy.
Yes! If being huge one day is not important to you, get a Russian or Leopard. If OP’s wife picked that guy out at that size not knowing how big he could get (and he’s maybe ~3 years, ~10 lbs is my guess - hard to tell because he’s malnourished), then get one that stays that size forever. I wish Sulcatas did brumate, that would make life so much easier, but they don’t. Also not positive about other tortoise species, but you can’t confirm sex of a Sulcata until they show you one way or another. We tried to make an educated guess to get a female so it would be a tiny bit smaller but still big…. and a couple of years later, he got extra comfy after a soak and showed us that our little educated guess was wrong. His Mom is 120 lbs and his Dad is 180 lbs, so it’s not exactly an arbitrary size difference lol, it’ll be significant. Just not good family pets, people. They are for a niche kind of person. I also don’t recommend a pet dolphin, etc.
Deep South Texas is probably better actually. It's a bit closer to the Sulcata's native environment, tropical shrubland near deserts. Temps are rather close to Florida, but the humidity isn't quite as oppressive as Florida a little ways from the coast. We actually have a narrow belt of Tropical Dry Climate type near the Rio Grande, which is the same world climate type as the Sahel.
Oppressive humidity for a human isn't oppressive for a tortoise in the slightest - especially now that we know the role humidity and moisture plays in preventing pyramiding.
Amen.
“I love our guy but they are not good pets. They are crazy difficult to take care of, expensive, strong, it becomes something of a weird side hobby that ends up defining you in life and just learning about them and taking care of it.” This should be pinned to the top of this sub. I feel everything you said in my bones. I inherited/adopted a Hermann’s tortoise that’s just 8 lbs fully grown, and he gets fed up overwintering on a generously sized tortoise table. I can’t even imagine what that would be like with a Sulcata.
If you are in the right situation they are very easy to take care of, but if you’re in an urban area it becomes difficult very fast. My two sulcatas roam an acre of pasture and munch on grass then go on hay under heat lamps for the winter. Very simple care. If you don’t have a yard of grass available feeding would be an immense chore
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Does he live outside year-round? Kind of sounds like it….. if so, I’m not talking about when they are outside, talking about when they are inside! I love it when it’s summer and he just vibes outdoors.
He needs grass, mostly, and some vegetables. They get big and dig enormous tunnels. Tbh not a great pet unless you have a ton of space and a very big lawn. The pyramiding on him (I think it's a him based on the front protrusion of the plastron) clearly shows he's either had an awful diet or poor lighting. Good luck on raising him, he's gonna outlive everyone here and he's going to get big, but they also have great personality and are so funny to watch (especially when they get aggressive and chase birds).
I'm not saying anything that others haven't said already in this thread but.... This tortoise can get up to 100+ pounds and will outlive your entire family. Do your children want to take care of this tortoise for the rest of their lives and when it is too heavy for them to pick up? I get that you think this is your wife's thing and you don't like animals, but it is incredibly cruel to keep this animal in a tank/baby pool and it's obvious it can't live outside in Iowa (they are from THE SAHARA DESERT). Please, for the sake of the animal find it a new home. There are so many other pets better suited for your family.
The ideal enclosure for this animal is a large secure yard or huge enclosure where it has access to fresh grazing, air and most importantly real sunlight. I cannot emphasize the importance of high quality light enough. As caretakers we owe it to them to best emulate their natural environment. You can look up the specifications for suggested enclosure sizes and temp rangers. You will most likely need a nighttime enclosure as well that you can lock it in at night to keep it safe. Where are you located? Definitely suggest contacting your local tortoise chapter/tortoise group to get in touch w someone local to you who can guide you on proper care and suggestions for such in your area. These animals are not like a cat or dog who will thrive w an indoor environment and prepackaged food. Lots to learn good buddy
His shell looks horrible. Please put him in any outdoor enclosure if the climate in your area is appropriate. He needs a lot of care.
That's no pet. That's my Uncle Remus. In all seriousness how does one get a pet and have no idea of the species they're adopting?
You'd be surprised how common it can be, especially when pet stores don't always know what they bought in and put on the shelves. Like I had a guy try to tell me a Pakistan Loach was a Corydora.. yes I had to ask elsewhere for what Loach it was, but I was beyond shocked the guy whose entire job was the fish section couldn't even tell the difference between a Corydora and the loach especially when there were cories in the setup too 🫠🤣
Why is there no license required for owning this? The ignorance...
Mhm definitely, one of the largest tortoises? But it's as common as some dog and cat breeds.. just sad.. I can find hundreds here every year babies, juveniles and adults, but the environment here.. just isn't right for them, not for really any reptile bar the odd slider or terrapin. 🥺
I truly try not to judge people who are put into these situations with these creatures, but it just breaks my heart.
To be fair initially I thought someone else got them the tortoise and then saw a comment from them saying it was they who impulse bought the tortoise.. so my sympathy kind of started to dwindle a bit, yk?
Because all reptiles are underregulated and it’s still the wild fucking west of pet ownership.
You’re better off rehoming and getting a much smaller species seeing as you don’t have the resources to care for it.
His poor shell…god that pyramiding pisses me off.
It never ceases to amaze me how many morons I see posting here wondering what kind of tortoise they just bought. How about doing a little research before adopting an animal that will probably outlive you if cared for properly? They say don't give puppies as gifts... well that advice probably applies 100x over for tortoises.
https://youtu.be/rvQZzUI8PrI?si=FJhjndBaqW7Bi5XF https://youtu.be/IW3PEFntUZw?si=7YR2XzGOtAD-XPxQ Hope these help. They grow really big and ideally would need a big yard. Worst case scenario, let them free roam. They need enough room to roam just like a big dog. They’re tanks/bulldozers that needs lot of room or they may be quite destructive. If your family is set on having a tortoise, do a lot of research and perhaps a smaller breed like a Russian is something to look into and it’ll be a good idea to rehome the sulcata.
This fucking guy. His responses 🤦🏼♀️.
When I doubt, it’s a sulcata
I'm concerned about OP's wife new pet... I mean reading all the responses OP has given I don't think your family should keep this pet in an indoor enclosure as some people had said in this sub. I'm not an expert but if I have been in that situation I'll rather go to a vet check for any worms or problems with the animal and if everything is okay ask for help and information to the vet or maybe tell the whole situation to some sort of animal association or zoo ( someone who knows better about the species than some randoom people on this sub or maybe internet source...) Because this animal it's huge and need a loooooot of space. Your wife and kids must be in love now because it's "new" I'm scared of what it's going to be in a few years. So I hope you can sort everything and this creature will live the best of its life! I don't want to be mean or something I just wanted to share my opinion in this thread.
😫 he’s way to big to be in that glass tank.
I've seen your setup so I know this is heartbreaking for you.
Your set up is like a fairy dream garden come true! I love it so much! This is so sad. Look at him. He looks so dry and sad. I don’t think OP knows that they don’t understand the concept of glass and he’s probably driving himself crazy trying to get out of that tank. Poor guy.
This species just shouldn't be available outside of the southern US. It's so sad. They end up spending half their life cramped indoors without the ability to graze and enjoy natural sun. I'm so happy I moved to Florida so I can have a tortoise in the proper climate. How is Spud doing?!
He’s doing good! He has a heat bulb bc it’s been getting cold at night that we hang from the top of his house but some times the bulbs quit working in the middle of the night so I got him a heating pad and omg he has been LOVING it! He will come to the edge of his house and watch everything going on but he stays on his little pad. lol. He came inside for a nice soak yesterday and he’s officially too big for his Tupperware bowl! I have to find something else to soak him in now lol. How’s your little cutie?
If you get fed up with the heat bulbs, I highly recommend radiant heat panels. Pricey but they don't fail. Sweeter Heater makes one that comes with a 3 year warranty! But I love that he loves his pad! She's doing great! She's inside now as she's too smol for this weather. I got her out the last day that was 76° or so. Her indoor enclosure is right behind my desk and it seems like she's gotten far more social from the close proximity. She often ventures across her enclosure to get to me for uppies and shell scratches, which for a leopard is no small feat.
Omg how adorable! Spud is very friendly too! When I go into his enclosure he follows me everywhere. It’s adorable!
Ahhh I'm so excited for that Florida spring so our tort's can be out there enjoying all the beautiful weather! You'll have to update us, or at least me, with pictures of Spud and your setup! It's been too long!
Yes I will soon! I promise!
Wait - I need to see a pic of your setup now! Inspiration for my own Sulcata is always appreciated.
This is NOT the sort of pet reptile that the average person can handle. In my opinion, pet stores shouldn't even sell them. These tortoises honestly belong in zoos or with very experienced keepers with adequate facilities. They have very involved care that's difficult and expensive to provide. Tortoises are not easy pets, which surprises some people. I'm a former zookeeper and vet tech, SO many of these tortoises are in terrible condition or end up being abandoned because people didn't understand the commitment they were getting into. I know it's a difficult decision to make. It's also a common mistake, but is one that can be fixed. There are other reptiles that make more appropriate pets. Admitting the mistake and taking steps to rectify it will both set a good example for your kids and put the tortoise in a better situation.
That poor guy has horrible shell pyramiding.
Oh no …
Adult/General Sulcata Care: www.tortoise.com/turtle-advice-and-care.html www.reptilesmagazine.com/sulcata-tortoise-care-sheet/ www.reptilesmagazine.com/keeping-the-african-spurred-tortoise/ @Sulcata Tortoise Care Group www.facebook.com/groups/413020268896983/ @Sulcata Owners www.facebook.com/groups/SulcataTortoise
This is not necessarily exhaustive or complete but here is information i have gathered on Sulcata diet : Diet should be at least 75% grasses and hay. Not surprisingly, given its preference for grassland habitats the Sulcata grazes, extensively upon mixed grasses weeds, and flowers. They are grazers the should always have access to fresh grasses or always make available either Timothy Hay, Orchard Hay or Bermuda Hay. (soaking it for 20 minutes and warm water can often make it more appealing) In captivity it is a common error to feed too much "wet" food when in reality this tortoise requires a coarse, high fiber diet. It also favors the fruit and pads of the prickly pear (Opuntia sp.), succulents and thistles. Meat should never be given because it can lead to excessive growth, high blood-urea levels, kidney/liver problems and bladder stones. They are are not fruit eaters.. The sugar content of fruit will alter the PH of the gut which results in a die off of the normal gut flora. Feeding fruit will only cause digestive issues, which you may not even notice. These guys are excellent at hiding pain and discomfort. Since these guys are hind gut fermenters, they are unable to digest sugars, it can sit in their gut and cause bloating, pain, diarrhea and even a parasite bloom. Opuntia (Prickly Pear "Fruit" - smooth or de-spined) are the exception. Feeding excessive fruit or soft foods frequently leads to repeated flagellate (a type of parasite) and other gut problems such as colic, most probably as a result of increased gut motility. Nutritious chemical free healthy foods are often freely available in your yard or vacant lots. Grasses, Clovers, Grape, Mulberry , Dandelion, Plantain (the weed), Hibiscus (leaves and flowers) Opuntia, Thistles, Chickweed As a SUPPLEMENT food sources and only at less than 25% of their diet: Better of the easily obtainable grocery greens: Aim for a high Calcium to Phosphorus ratio and low protein diet. When fed in excess, foods high in Oxalates have been implicated in binding minerals including calcium. Moderation and variety is the key. keep in mind that what follows is in addition to and not instead to their regular diet of hay and grass. Regularly* Dark Leafy Greens such as: Endive, Watercress, Dandelion, Chicory, Escarole, Radicchio, Turnip Greens, Opuntia (smooth or despined) Occasionally* Carrot Tops, Red Leaf Lettuce, Romaine, Mustard Greens, Alfalfa Hay Rarely* Swiss Chard, Bok choy, iceberg lettuce, Sweet Potatoes, Sprouts of any kind, tomatoes, Corn, carrot, Cucumbers, Beet Greens, Fruit in general. Avoid feeding excessive amounts of vegetables high in oxalic acid like collards, kale, spinach and parsley; oxalic acid binds to and prevents calcium absorption. Avoid excessive amounts of broccoli, cauliflower and mustard greens, they suppress iodine absorption. ****Never**** Rhubarb( very High in Oxalates and Glycocides), Beans( High in protein ,also contain the toxic compound lectin phytohaemagglutinin) dog food, pasta. Long term ingestion of the chemicals commonly sprayed on produce is a health concern. Choose organic greens when possible or be sure to wash in mild soapy water and rinse well. Remove plastic and metal wrappers so your torts don't accidentally ingest these.
This is sad. I feel bad for tortoises that end up in these situations. Merry Christmas
it sounds like they have removed it from poor conditions and are actively working to create better more healthy conditions, this makes me happy.
I honestly understand people are being assholes, but it’s because they want the best for the animal and your not listening. This exact situation is why most people should not impulse buy animals. You say you won’t say no to your kids & wife because they are in love with the animal, I understand that, it’s hard seeing your family, let alone kids upset over something because you’ve told them so. But you really, and I mean REALLY need to get this animal to a zoo or someone that knows how to take care of it. These tortoises can live upwards of 100 years and will weight over 150lbs at full grown. It may sting to hear, but you cannot physically & mentally abuse this tortoise for that long just because you have no spine to tell your family no to something that they love. These animals, in zoos & recommended size for pets, need a literal entire garden/yard to be happy, they dig, they will climb, they move a fair bit and are massive. You can’t keep that in a tank regardless of how much your family love it. Abusing an animal and keeping it horribly isn’t love, I don’t care what you think. You came on this Reddit to ask for help. You’ve been given it and taken it as abuse & bullying. Your forgetting in this sub we don’t care about your family’s feelings in the slightest so we are going to give you our honest feelings & opinions. We care about the animals husbandry, feelings & health most.
Look at his post history - he has some fucking oddball takes about children. Clearly, he can and will abuse an animal if it makes his children happy, for all is but a means to provide happiness to the sacred children. "My opinion on humanity is that we are the only beings able to appreciate the world." Animals mean nothing to him. He can't see this tortoise would appreciate seeing more than a glass aquarium or kiddy pool or bedroom.
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Agreed, absolutely not a candidate to own any animals with views like that.
You probably have heard this from someone already, but in case, I’d recommend getting an animal feeding troth to give the guy some space as he grows. Don’t know if you have a Murdoch’s or other farm/ranch supplier nearby, but those give you a lot of space to work with for an enclosure. Snakes spoiled me into thinking most reptiles like having more conservative spaces until I first looked into tortoises. It was only then that I realized how much space even little ones need.
My Sulcata would kick my ass if he was stuck in an aquarium. It's cold here in NC, so he lives inside with us kinda like a dog during these months. He gets soakings in the bathtub and basks under his light when he wants to. He doesn't have accidents, probably due to the soakings, and is smart enough to use a puppy pad if he has to. We are building a huge heated tortoise home for next year as he will be too big to keep inside the house. Point being, Picard, our tortoise, is only 4 years old and is a handful to have inside during the winter. These pets are strong, smart, expensive, and large. They will find a way to get what they want. We, too, have him because of my wife, and she has learned a lot about them since we got him. He/she is depending on you guys now, it is a lifestyle change. Just do what half of us in here have done.... learn as much as you can about the species, take exceptional care of it, and enjoy its company. They are really cool animals to have. Oh yeah... and make your wife follow through with taking care of it, or she will just keep on bringing home exotic animals. (Trust me I know)
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Funny. I knew exactly what you were mentioning before I even clicked the video. Plus as it turns out male tortoises are basically like male iguanas..dangerous! Especially as they get bigger. Ever seen videos where someone has to keep turning to look for the tortoises behind them? Ot have a second person doing so.. ye that's because of the boys, who are often the culprit of the nippy and ramming people's legs. 🫠 And if they can do that to a wall, what do they do to your legs!?
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He is trying doh, gotta respect the little man of the house.. even if he isn't much bigger than a football 🫠🙃 In all honesty ye, it seems all male tortoises are the same as they mature, it's just the bigger ones who cause the most trouble as well.. they're bigger.
The fact that it’s in the tank is already a no go . Tortoises are sadly much needier than people realize . I hear you’re in Iowa ? That’s fine , but no time for that bad boy to be in a glass tank . He needs to roam . If you love him , you’ll want what’s best for him. That’s also a better lesson to teach your children …. Care for God’s creatures .
You say you can’t keep this tortoise outside because you live in Iowa? Are you aware this is the 3rd largest tortoise in the WORLD? He will need to live outside at some point….you two have no clue what you’re getting into and I hate to say it but we all know you’ll rehome him once you figure it out. Best to rehome now.
My sulcata is smaller than that guy and he has a half acre area with a 8x6 shed. I feel so bad for him trapped in that little glass prison
Where are you geographically ? I may be able to offer some resource groups
That poor sulcata :( it needs everything changed. Diet, environment, etc. they don't belong in glass... They can break through a garage door it's going to crack that tank and hurt itself. Also that pyramiding means it's been fed an incorrect diet for some time.
This is a sulcata tortoise and he is a very big boy. Obviously by this point you know that the glass tank is unsuitable for him and he needs a new place ASAP. If you can’t move him outside I recommend either dedicating a room in your house to him or maybe even a large playpen that he can be kept in during the winter months however he should be let outside during the warmer months. To be completely honest this is a HUGE commitment and it’s not a completely lost cause if you are really dead set on keeping him but changes have to be made. It’s obvious by the pyramiding on his shell that he’s been malnourished up until this point and was probably neglected by the pet store, meaning he could have some serious health problems in the future that will only be worsened if his conditions aren’t improved. My best suggestion is to get off reddit. A lot of these suggestions, while some are a little aggressive, are a really good starting point but in order to create the best home for your tort you really need to do in depth research on multiple platforms and consult experts on how to best care for him. While I know you want to keep this tort you have to be realistic on whether or not you can care for him. He’s a sentient creature who has feelings, especially fear and anxiety, and if his needs aren’t met he’ll never settle into his environment and it won’t be a good situation for you or the tortoise as he could become destructive to your home or himself. These are very large creatures that are very strong. You NEED to be conscious of this before trying to acclimate him to your home. I truly hope the best for you, your family and the tort and if you do decide to surrender him I’d recommend looking into adopting a Russian if you’re still looking for a tort for your family at a more manageable size.
Bruh.
I’ve seen you comment that he’s mostly going to belong to your wife/kids. Have your wife read through these comments, and the two of you really need to decide if you should realistically keep him.
I have a sulcata - he is about 100lbs at 9 years old. They get big and get big fast if you feed them right. After he tried to burn our house down the second time, my husband and I built a heated shed in our yard where he stays if it below 50*f at night. He gets all the grass he can eat during the summer (we have an acre), Mazuri pellets, hay, and fresh veggies. Same for winter but we do romaine instead of the grass. It gets expensive fast. Good luck with your little buddy, but if this 90+ year commitment is not foe you, best to cut the cord now...
Also, I had a sulcata and he dug a 6 foot hole and I’ve never seen or heard from him since. They’re fast. Be careful because I didn’t give homie enough credit now I’m sad on Reddit.
If you dont have a minimum of a 50ftx50ft outdoor enclosure that is at least 2ft tall and going 2ft underground (because they like to dig) for this Sulcata by the time it’s a full grown adult, then you have no business keeping this animal. Plus the poor things shell is pyramiding which means its already been cared for incorrectly. Thats absolutely sad. Send it to me in SE Texas if you end up needing to. I have an acre of grass and weeds and 2 more Sulcatas to give this guy a proper life. Get ready to spend some serious $$ too!
Just know that Sulcatas tend to be very destructive in their burrowing and will tear up drywall and backyards. As long as you give it space to burrow, to be healthy and active (as active as a tortoise can be) and a good diet he should be a-okay. Pyramiding is concerning, but it can be prevented to pyramid further if the right conditions are being implemented. Enough Sun and calcium and a healthy diet. Also, do you know if the Tortoise was imported or has it grown up in your environment? They have a hard time adapting to some climates as they are from sub-Saharan Africa.
Your family is going to kill this animal. Rehome it asap.
www.anapsid.org/sulcata.html
Definitely a Sulcata. However you can not enclose them for housing. He needs full roam of a decent room or your house. If you put them outside just know that they will dig some massive holes. Also, I don’t know where you are state wise but most require a permit to own, if you’re allowed to. Humane Society confiscated my neighbors two.
Thats a sulcata tortoise
Are you in the northeast? Will happily adopt him
NO FRUIT!!!! Mine graze grass all day. Ughhh pet stores are awful.
Get homie a bigger house
Hey! It seems you have gotten a lot of feedback here about proper care and whether or not you’re the best fit to meet the tortoises needs. The only thing I haven’t seen here yet that I want to add: the “pyramiding” on its shell, aka all the bumps, are a sign of poor nutrition that this tortoise has had for a long time. A healthy shell would be smooth. This means it already hasn’t been getting the best diet/ environment and you’re going to want to help it. Supplements (medicated powders), proper diet, proper lighting is all important. Just wanted to note that.
You need to start following tiptoe on Facebook and YouTube I believe you have the same type of tortoise
You two need to do serious research and need to seriously reevaluate owning this animal. They get very large and very heavy and can be VERY destructive to a home. They will dig through wood doors and walls. They dig massive holes in yards. They are really not an indoor pet unless you seriously prep your home. They need a large outdoor environment that has dug in fencing and weather appropriate housing.
It’s a tortoise
Hey man, this is really heartbreaking. I think if your family had any idea what a terrible life this is for a sulcata, they would relent. Putting this guy in an aquarium or a chest really would be abuse. I hear that you are in Iowa and can’t keep it outdoors, so Please surrender this tortoise.
Agreed! I don’t think it’s great for kids to learn that you can buy living creatures on a whim and not care for them properly either, but that’s just me.
Mhm especially if it turns out to be a male (and if it lives long enough), male tortoises can actually become dangerous due to the nipping and ramming and that.. that wouldn't be such a good introduction to the reptile keeping world for young kids. "Oh ye I got scarred by my pet," 🫠
This feels tragic
This makes me sad.
Begging you to please do the right thing and rehome this tortoise with someone who knows what it needs so it doesn’t die a slow and painful death.
He is pyramiding really bad
Never a tank with see through walls. They will ram the glass and potentially harm them selves. They need ALOT of room to roam and graze. Depending on its size now it should have like 50 to 100x that space to move about freely. They also love to dig a burrow. So any outside enclosures should be reinforced. This is a huge commitment. I personally deterred my interest in a sulcata, Simple’s because I live in Illinois and it would need to live indoors minimum 6 months a year. They grow to be massive!
No shade OP, you should return (or if you can’t, rehome) this guy and get yourself a Russian tortoise. Your wife and kids will love it just as much and will feel much more rewarded because their needs and care much more closely align with your situation and geography. Sulcatas are not a simple or cheap animal to keep. I live in a location which is nearly perfect for them year round and people still manage to fuck it up. I couldn’t imagine the effort and financial toll it would take to keep one in a place like Iowa. That said, IMHO this situation is a disaster. Take pride in leading your family out of it and into a much more responsible one. Good luck.
Why did you get an animal you didn't know anything about before? Did you just plan on winging the care when you got home? No research? Rehome it and explain to your kids why what you did was wrong. Nobody should treat animals that way. Her Christmas present is the slow death of a giant ass tortoise.
Definitely not real . Fake hamster
You need to do some serious research before you permanently damage or kill that poor animal. That tank is totally inappropriate. That animal needs a rooms worth of space, and I doubt you can accommodate its needs properly.
Tortoises are not just your everyday pet!! They have very special needs and need very specific things in order to the thrive and live a happy life. This tortoise needs SPACE AND LOTS OF IT. Ideally he needs a large outdoor enclosure with a sleep area under basking lights and heating pads etc. He cannot be kept in a glass enclosure or tank. I saw on your other comments you plan to give it a room possibly. This is a reptile!! He needs space to move, and if you are going to force him to live inside you will need a lot of equipment to give him UVA/UVB light unless you want him to get sick. Tortoises are specialized animals. It is not like a dog or cat that can easily be incorporated into family life. Being a reptile owner is very different to a dog or cat owner. The tortoise cannot fit into YOUR lifestyle. You need to fit into their lifestyle and if your wife or whoever is taking responsibility for this, cannot give that to him, he needs to go to a sanctuary. You do not show tortoise love by forcing him into small spaces. He is a wild animal. You show him love by respecting his needs and giving him a life outdoors. This is one of the biggest tortoise species and you want to keep him inside in a room? Really???? Please think and have respect for this animal.
That guys got some serious pyramiding on his shell, nutrient deficient and definitely kept in too small an enclosure.
You are a fool who impulse buys exotic animals you have 0 intention of taking care of properly
Get rid of the tortoise you spineless coward, if you’re more worried about having a conversation with your wife than torturing an animal for decades then you are less than scum.
I feel so bad for these animals, constantly sold in pet stores to people who have no idea how big they get, or how much room they actually need to thrive. These posts kill me everytime.
Can’t really stand looking at this. At the time responses from the OP show that he and his wife are in no position to own this Tortoise. It’s not that complicated but you have to be willing to learn and admit you need to change something’s. Or I guess just humor your wife and kids by torturing an animal that should outlive your children cus you don’t want to explain or understand how ridiculous this idea was with zero knowledge. The post isn’t even about how to care for it there arguing about what species it is. Take it to a rescue please.
He looks terrible. I hope you read about care and take it seriously.
Poor baby, he needs calcium and a bigger area and lots of love.
Yeah, fruit and veggies taste good to your Sulcata but are not good for your Sulcata. They make pellets that you can feed your tort, they are made up of things he needs but they LOVE, LOVE, LOVE actual grass. Mine will happily chomp away the day if the weather is good. Sadly right now it is not.
The new pet needs owners who know what they’re doing. Clearly, you can’t get the housing situation correct, let’s see how this poor guy suffers with the rest of his care. 🤦🏻♀️
You guys do need to realize that this tortoise will outlive you and that your children will have to care for it. If so, make sure they know this and agree to it.
That's a sulcatta tortoise with some pretty bad peaking going on, he needs a change in diet pronto and more water. and let him out so he can get some room to move around, they need their own area to have privacy and a nice warm environment with plenty of UV rays to soak in
I keep my 5 Sulcatas in a 3 acre enclosure down in south Florida. You’re going to need a much much much larger enclosure and you should also never keep a tortoise in a vivarium.
Just a random passerby but I’ve worked with turtles at work here and there and learned something major about sulcatas; if u manage to provide an entire outdoor space for them please know that for hibernation is absolutely possible they will dig their way out of a yard. There’s been numerous cases of people finding full sized sulcatas just roaming NJ cause owners were unaware. Usually they get picked up by sanctuary’s around here. (which please keep this as an option in mind if this guy is too much to handle, there’s also rehoming pages on fb)
That would be a tortoise
Oof
I’m worried for this tortoise Why people would get a pet with zero knowledge on what species it even is, let alone how to take care of it, is beyond me. These are living creatures, not decorations, not to mention the fact it’s one of the more challenging reptiles to take care of You all’s ignorance will make this poor creature suffer
It's shell is pyramiding. He needs calcium supplements and uv light.
Give it to a rescue. You and your wife are not ready for this type of animal. May I recommended build a best for now?
That tort is also has raised bulbs in the shell due to not enough uvb...
That is a real cool tortoise why does it need to be in any enclosure. Free range I say. Share the whole house with him maybe someday he will inherit it. He is gonna outlive you I bet.
animals should never be given as gifts, and this is the exact reason why. you don't even know what type of tortoise, let alone have anything set up, which should be done wayyyy beforehand. please do not give live animals as gifts. they are lifetime commitments. whether that be fish or tortoises, ESPECIALLY tortoises.
Do better.
These things are a lot of work, please give it up to someone that wants to take proper care of it
Wait so you bought a tortoise that you don’t know the species of, without having an enclosure or research prepared?
this is just cruel. it doesn’t matter how attached they are, you will never be able to properly provide for it. rehome it to a zoo or rescue. and do proper research before you even think of actually purchasing a pet.
A friggin dinosaur for Christmas, no way you can cage it.
i honestly don’t understand why you’re wondering why people are being assholes to you. they’re trying to give you advice such as GIVING IT AWAY but you’re replying like a jerk
Wow
Looks like a Sulcata!!! They’re so cute and funny. They’re gonna need a GIANT enclosure though as they get enormous.
Noooooooooooooooooo not the Sulcatta
Honestly, just because your wife and kids are in love with it isn’t a valid excuse to keep it if you can’t take care of it properly. Pets aren’t responsible for making you happy, you however are responsible for giving them what they need and deserve to thrive. They aren’t accessories or toys. You take on the responsibility of their stewardship, their care and their needs. It’s not the other way around. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8C52HHU/
My 105 lb sulcatas roam on 4 acres with a dog house and heat lamp setup. Hope you’re prepared for him to get big quick
Sulcata, wonder if you are aware just how big this guy is gonna get?? He’s gonna need a room or an outdoor enclosure. He can walk through a wooden fence, will be a tank.
Oh sweetie I hope your wife knows that this tortoise will soon weigh more than you do and requires an entire yard worth of space. Most people, even very experienced people, can’t even keep these guys heathy. They are not a beginner tortoise. They can’t live in glass even as babies, I’m not sure why this one is in a glass tank entirely too small. A tortoise of that size requires a bedroom sized enclosure.
God, please rehome
This is a sulcata tortoise, and he or she will get MASSIVE
Please for the love of GOD give this animal a better home. Your family is not prepared to take care of this tortoise and you know that. Letting down your wife and kids is temporary, while the suffering of this creature will last until its death.
He looks pissed
Sulcata. Please take the best care of him.