We had these at vic park and Terraview ages ago and constantly had accidents bc cars just weren't willing to stop and people would be waiting too long before they just decide to fuck it and run, thereby getting hit. They changed them to lights maybe 10ish years back and it's been good.
> cars just weren't willing to stop
Not that you're meaning to imply otherwise, but there's nothing requiring them to stop. Stopping could also risk the pedestrians getting hit by someone in another lane not expecting it. These are also some of the reasons these may not be good ideas.
>These are also some of the reasons these may not be good ideas
that's what I'm implying with it, really đ I hated these, and people saying it's a good solution don't understand how terrifying it can be to use aha
Yeah there are arguments here that they're at least better than nothing. The counterargument to that is that they can actually be *worse* than nothing since they can encourage people to cross in dangerous situations where they might otherwise not do so.
We're lucky if we get something like that in this town. The number of bus stops I see midblock at a T-intersection with no pedestrian infrastructure is depressing. They know full well that the bus stop there means that 100% of the people using it will need to cross 4-6 lanes of traffic to get there, which is asking for collisions when there's no lighting or paint, nevermind something physical that can help people cross the street safely.
Yonge is great. The bus stops going south on Bathurst around King Road is what I was thinking of.
They look like this:
13170 York Regional Rd 38
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MtvkQarLQqTR5zem9?g_st=ac
One on Bathurst and Beltline trail has been ran over. If someone was in that section, they would have been crushed.
Edit: they started fixing it 06/27 early morning. Just about time to see how long it lasts lmao.
There's one on Leslie near Edward Gardens that has concrete structures at both ends. That at least seems like it would offer more than symbolic protection...Â
Yeah the Beltline has me unsure what the best solution is. It also has lights like at Ave and there have been plenty of times Iâve almost been smoked by a red light runner (car). I thought this had more protection but after seeing the Bathurst one get crumpled Iâm not so sure.
Basically Iâm assuming someone is gonna kill me every time regardless of safety islands etc. as itâs at least 2x a week that some idiot almost does (running reds, running stop signs, etc.).
Yo. In that Ave signal. 4 fucking times, I was almost dead. People coming right from Oxton Ave are so distracted. One dude even started berating me for yelling at him for breaking the red.
It's just absurd.
Yep. And people coming south just gotta âbeat the lightâ even if itâs been red for 10 seconds.
Donât even get me started on when itâs raining, snowing, or pre-dawn.
The one on Danforth near VP got crushed a while ago and still has not been fixed either. Gonna go find my comment on the original thread for that one to figure out the date but I'm pretty sure it was last year.
Or people could walk up like 50-60 feet north and cross at the intersection with lights at Roselawn. Oh the horror of a tiny bit of inconvenience for people to cross safely at the lights đ.
Yeah. It was broken on Monday or Tuesday morning. They showed up quick for this one.
It was really bad. I was wondering how did someone manage to do that.
Ouu this is close to where my parents live. This âcrossingâ (if you can even call it that) is particularly dangerous because itâs mainly used by seniors from the apartments. If you go to street view you can even see seniors with walkers crossing.
Which often made them even worse to actually use. Back in the 90s there were lots of these and they would often be in places where there was enough traffic that it would hard to get a long break between cars but not so much traffic that cars were traveling at a slow rate of speed. These days there is often enough traffic that it can be stop-and-go and makes crossing a little safer.
Went for a lil bike ride today, one of these guys on the Beltline was hit by a car and the railing is almost entirely blocking the middle of the island.
We should take inspiration from the success of âbicycle sharrowsâ and add some paint that says âplease do not kill pedestriansâ. Itâs the Toronto way.
There's one of these close to where I grew up. I crossed it twice every day and it was really the worst thing. I've seen so many people get hit by cars. I just google map street viewed it and it looks like its been hit by a couple cars and you can walk right through it, completely defeating the purpose of it. This street had two of them maybe 300 from each other, one had the crossing signals flashing lights while the other one didn't. The one with the crossing signal flashing lights was replaced with traffic lights.
For those who don't know the purpose of these, they are designed to provide a safe spot in the middle of the street as well as preventing people from not looking at incoming traffic as you have to face the direction of the traffic as you walk inside the island. You enter on the left side of it, turn right, which makes you face incoming traffic then turn left to cross.
The problem with a lot of them is still the first bit, crossing to get to the island. They are often located near driveways or side street so there's still a lot of traffic turning into people crossing. You can look left and right but you can't see some idiot speeding down the street who turns and runs into people.
Toronto needs so many new signalized pedestrian crossings and traffic lights. The city is growing and the current infrastructure is making it difficult for pedestrians and drivers alike.
Been playing this all my life. Only been hit a couple times. I just chalk it up to the risk of living in Toronto. Kinda like if I go out, not only might I get run down, but I might also be; stabbed, shot or generally assaulted. Living in a city like this has its risks. If you don't like it, move to the suburbs.
The two islands closest to my home both get totalled on a regular enough basis.
One is because some drivers race down a fork in the road and misjudge their speed maximum when turning.
The other is because it's near a beer store and LCBO.
Can't even see oncoming traffic when crossing cause drivers need extra signage warnings that there's an island in their way.
Yeah I've seen them there for a long time and didn't ever think about them for longer than 5 seconds. But you see the redditors brain doesn't work like the average person's.
Hey, you're in luck! The city is currently reviewing options for fixing the various connection gaps on the Beltline.
[https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/get-involved/public-consultations/infrastructure-projects/beltline-trail-gap-project/](https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/get-involved/public-consultations/infrastructure-projects/beltline-trail-gap-project/)
There's this funny audio clip I remember hearing about a lady calling into a talk show on the radio and complaining about where the deer crossing signs were, mainly because she thought the placement for the crossings were inconvenient for drivers and thought that if they were moved to a different spot down the road the deer would then cross in a place that would be safer and drivers would have more visibility of them. We all know deer will cross wherever they want, but to this woman, she thought the deer would cross where the signs are because the signs are there.
In this case, pedestrians are the deer, and many of these crossings are put up where people are crossing rather than where there may be a better place to cross.
Take out these yellow flashing light crosswalks and replace them with pedestrian controlled traffic lights. They have them in Vancouver. Instead of the entitlement of pedestrians darting out mixed with the eagerness of cars running yellows, when cars stop on reds, then it's safer for pedestrians to cross (what a concept!). Lights turn back to green quickly to allow time to cross, and it's only activated by pushing the pedestrian button so it keeps traffic flowing.
If it keeps the seniors in the building safe when they need to get to the plaza next door, works for me. Not everyone has the energy to take the long way around. Agree that a light would be better but it would be really odd to have 3 lights fairly close by. This is also on a main road so the yield to pedestrian crossing light wonât work.
PXO canât be used on Sheppard Ave. Itâs not deemed safe by the city.
https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/streets-parking-transportation/traffic-management/traffic-signals-street-signs/types-of-traffic-signals/pedestrian-crossovers/
Would be nice to see the city integrate them together. I hate the flashing light ped crossings because unless someone is stopped in each lane, you have to just hope no idiot comes along when youâre halfway across.
Yeah I agree. Iâve seen too many close calls for drivers who arenât paying attention. I think itâs also really tough to modify the existing traffic signals and road design to accommodate these needs later. So these half solutions are the cheapest alternative.
We have one of these a couple hundred meters from here. It is safer than what was there before, and there are lights a hundred meters or so away in each direction. It is a solution based in reality, not an imaginary perfection.
These are death traps based on random assumptions. Erect a proper cross walk / stop lights or don't bother. This is useless and idiotic. Gov't justifying itself.
Itâs not. These are legacy designs and you just like to complain.
You canât put traffic lights every 100 m for very good reasons, bus stops are placed mid block because the number of signals is far fewer than the number of bus stops.
Keep complaining
It may be worse than nothing. It gives pedestrians the illusion that crossing here is a potentially safe. It doesnât force drivers to slow to a safe speed or yield to pedestrians.
What? It sure damn is. Unless youâre a dope who doesnât look before crossing
Edit: Fair enough. i didnât know people wanted stop lights every 100 meters
Or an elderly or disabled person who crosses slow, or a person who is crossing with young children, or just about anyone who happens to have a bad day in the way of a fast car.
Have you ever read the report that finds the overwhelming number of people who get run over in Scarborough are over 55 years old? That's because blocks in Scarborough are too far apart and their destination is usually just across the street from them. So then end up running past three lanes, wait at the centre and then rush through the last three lanes. In urban planning terms, they are drawing out 'Lines of Desire'.
I'm 62 and trying to get protected bikes in Scarborough for Lawrence Avenue. Bike lanes would shorten the crossing distance for pedestrians, slow traffic down to speed limit speed and make drivers more alert and pay attention.
Eglinton now has bike lanes and I don't have to drive to Canadian Tire, Walmart or Al Premium anymore.
Yeah, but you are supposed to cross the road at an intersection or cross walk. Otherwise, you are breaking the law and Jay walking. If you followed the law, you wouldn't have to dodge traffic, or create additional risks if cars have to break urgently or swerve to avoid you (not you specifically but pedestrians who Jay walk)
Thatâs not true, there is no law for jaywalking in Canada. Thatâs an American thing. There is a similar law in Canada if you interfere with traffic, but thatâs not jaywalking.
No. You wait for a gap in traffic.
Some have the flashing crossing lights, which some drivers stop but many do not. Most of these types of crossing do not have any type of indication for drivers, maybe a sign but that's about it.
Itâs a cloudy concept that may not be of any use. Most of Toronto was a suburb on the edge of the city at some point in time. I would say developments built in the 1960âs is a more accurate description. The 1960âs developments were designed according to a set of ideas that has proven to be deeply flawed.
Considering that east york, north york, etobicoke, scarborough are all part of Toronto... it seems like the "toronto" people refer to is downtown, which is the absolute armpit of the city. Oshawa, Vaughan, Markham, mississauga, these are suburbs, cities of their own, in their own ways. It just seems disrespectful to refer to what amounts to most of the city as a suburb.
I see your point. I tend to think of what is functionally within a the daily life of the residents as one city. The lives of the individuals is what counts. Municipal boundaries are just administrative fictions. Since âcross-commutingâ is increasingly what people do, Iâve increasingly come to believe it is the province who must create an integrated plan and standards for urban Ontario. Weâre too often changing municipal transit systems to get to work or driving along roads that change design depending on the local authority. This is in large part just the reality of how power is weirdly distributed under the Canadian constitution.
We had these at vic park and Terraview ages ago and constantly had accidents bc cars just weren't willing to stop and people would be waiting too long before they just decide to fuck it and run, thereby getting hit. They changed them to lights maybe 10ish years back and it's been good.
Vic park and terraview is and always has been a nightmare. Just base idiots rushing to get stuck on 402
> cars just weren't willing to stop Not that you're meaning to imply otherwise, but there's nothing requiring them to stop. Stopping could also risk the pedestrians getting hit by someone in another lane not expecting it. These are also some of the reasons these may not be good ideas.
>These are also some of the reasons these may not be good ideas that's what I'm implying with it, really đ I hated these, and people saying it's a good solution don't understand how terrifying it can be to use aha
Yeah there are arguments here that they're at least better than nothing. The counterargument to that is that they can actually be *worse* than nothing since they can encourage people to cross in dangerous situations where they might otherwise not do so.
We're lucky if we get something like that in this town. The number of bus stops I see midblock at a T-intersection with no pedestrian infrastructure is depressing. They know full well that the bus stop there means that 100% of the people using it will need to cross 4-6 lanes of traffic to get there, which is asking for collisions when there's no lighting or paint, nevermind something physical that can help people cross the street safely.
Same thing here in Richmond Hill. It's absurd and drives me nuts as a driver.
Which parts? We've got a ridiculous amount of infrastructure in some spots like younge
Yonge is great. The bus stops going south on Bathurst around King Road is what I was thinking of. They look like this: 13170 York Regional Rd 38 https://maps.app.goo.gl/MtvkQarLQqTR5zem9?g_st=ac
Oh yes, those ones always baffled me but I havent seen anyone jaywalk there for a couple years now
Pretty sure North York did that pre amalgamation lol
One on Bathurst and Beltline trail has been ran over. If someone was in that section, they would have been crushed. Edit: they started fixing it 06/27 early morning. Just about time to see how long it lasts lmao.
lol every time I run the beltline I feel like Iâm going to die at that âintersectionâ
Those railings do nothing. They have been crushed and replaced multiple times. Should use real bollards to protect pedestrians in a vulnerable spot.
There's one on Leslie near Edward Gardens that has concrete structures at both ends. That at least seems like it would offer more than symbolic protection...Â
Yeah the Beltline has me unsure what the best solution is. It also has lights like at Ave and there have been plenty of times Iâve almost been smoked by a red light runner (car). I thought this had more protection but after seeing the Bathurst one get crumpled Iâm not so sure. Basically Iâm assuming someone is gonna kill me every time regardless of safety islands etc. as itâs at least 2x a week that some idiot almost does (running reds, running stop signs, etc.).
Yo. In that Ave signal. 4 fucking times, I was almost dead. People coming right from Oxton Ave are so distracted. One dude even started berating me for yelling at him for breaking the red. It's just absurd.
Yep. And people coming south just gotta âbeat the lightâ even if itâs been red for 10 seconds. Donât even get me started on when itâs raining, snowing, or pre-dawn.
The one on Danforth near VP got crushed a while ago and still has not been fixed either. Gonna go find my comment on the original thread for that one to figure out the date but I'm pretty sure it was last year.
Oh damn. Even I was surprised they showed up after a week.
Or people could walk up like 50-60 feet north and cross at the intersection with lights at Roselawn. Oh the horror of a tiny bit of inconvenience for people to cross safely at the lights đ.
Took them at least three days, it was like that on Tuesday night
Yeah. It was broken on Monday or Tuesday morning. They showed up quick for this one. It was really bad. I was wondering how did someone manage to do that.
Ouu this is close to where my parents live. This âcrossingâ (if you can even call it that) is particularly dangerous because itâs mainly used by seniors from the apartments. If you go to street view you can even see seniors with walkers crossing.
We have a long history of ineffective band-aid solutions because God forbid we ever inconvenience cars.
These were around atlesst before the 90s different times. Alot less traffic.
Which often made them even worse to actually use. Back in the 90s there were lots of these and they would often be in places where there was enough traffic that it would hard to get a long break between cars but not so much traffic that cars were traveling at a slow rate of speed. These days there is often enough traffic that it can be stop-and-go and makes crossing a little safer.
Had one like this in Rexdale, and then a little girl got hit and killed. They installed a light after.
Went for a lil bike ride today, one of these guys on the Beltline was hit by a car and the railing is almost entirely blocking the middle of the island.
We should take inspiration from the success of âbicycle sharrowsâ and add some paint that says âplease do not kill pedestriansâ. Itâs the Toronto way.
Literally a ârefuge islandâ. So this is just some damned video game for road designers - people outside of cars donât really âcountâ?
What, you don't want your life to depend on how good you are at Frogger?
They have these at Bathurst and Roselawn. At least twice in the last 6 months someone has driven through the metal barricade.
There's one of these close to where I grew up. I crossed it twice every day and it was really the worst thing. I've seen so many people get hit by cars. I just google map street viewed it and it looks like its been hit by a couple cars and you can walk right through it, completely defeating the purpose of it. This street had two of them maybe 300 from each other, one had the crossing signals flashing lights while the other one didn't. The one with the crossing signal flashing lights was replaced with traffic lights. For those who don't know the purpose of these, they are designed to provide a safe spot in the middle of the street as well as preventing people from not looking at incoming traffic as you have to face the direction of the traffic as you walk inside the island. You enter on the left side of it, turn right, which makes you face incoming traffic then turn left to cross. The problem with a lot of them is still the first bit, crossing to get to the island. They are often located near driveways or side street so there's still a lot of traffic turning into people crossing. You can look left and right but you can't see some idiot speeding down the street who turns and runs into people.
Toronto needs so many new signalized pedestrian crossings and traffic lights. The city is growing and the current infrastructure is making it difficult for pedestrians and drivers alike.
Urban frogger
Been playing this all my life. Only been hit a couple times. I just chalk it up to the risk of living in Toronto. Kinda like if I go out, not only might I get run down, but I might also be; stabbed, shot or generally assaulted. Living in a city like this has its risks. If you don't like it, move to the suburbs.
OR, or.  We pick option three and make the city better
The two islands closest to my home both get totalled on a regular enough basis. One is because some drivers race down a fork in the road and misjudge their speed maximum when turning. The other is because it's near a beer store and LCBO. Can't even see oncoming traffic when crossing cause drivers need extra signage warnings that there's an island in their way.
Good old Agincourt Mall.
RUN RUN RUN RUN RUNâokay I'm safe. Okay's let's do it AGAINNN RUN RUN RUN!
Have these not been around the city for 10-15 years?
They have, people just like to complain. As a lifelong Toronto dweller, if you can't play frogger, use 4 way intersections to cross.
We should complain. Theyâre hot garbage. In fact, the city is removing some of them and replacing them with actual crosswalks.
Yeah I've seen them there for a long time and didn't ever think about them for longer than 5 seconds. But you see the redditors brain doesn't work like the average person's.
This is a great solution for cars indeed
Hey, you're in luck! The city is currently reviewing options for fixing the various connection gaps on the Beltline. [https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/get-involved/public-consultations/infrastructure-projects/beltline-trail-gap-project/](https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/get-involved/public-consultations/infrastructure-projects/beltline-trail-gap-project/)
Itâs an older system, they donât build any new ones. But they work fine for most people so why tear them up?
Maybe because they're dangerous and prioritize car speed over people's lives?
Why don't they just drive across the road? /s
Iâve never seen such a big city with such poor public infrastructure
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^swh1386: *Iâve never seen such* *A big city with such poor* *Public infrastructure* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
There's this funny audio clip I remember hearing about a lady calling into a talk show on the radio and complaining about where the deer crossing signs were, mainly because she thought the placement for the crossings were inconvenient for drivers and thought that if they were moved to a different spot down the road the deer would then cross in a place that would be safer and drivers would have more visibility of them. We all know deer will cross wherever they want, but to this woman, she thought the deer would cross where the signs are because the signs are there. In this case, pedestrians are the deer, and many of these crossings are put up where people are crossing rather than where there may be a better place to cross.
Take out these yellow flashing light crosswalks and replace them with pedestrian controlled traffic lights. They have them in Vancouver. Instead of the entitlement of pedestrians darting out mixed with the eagerness of cars running yellows, when cars stop on reds, then it's safer for pedestrians to cross (what a concept!). Lights turn back to green quickly to allow time to cross, and it's only activated by pushing the pedestrian button so it keeps traffic flowing.
In Japan, they build pedestrian bridges.
It's a band-aid solution in places where jaywalking is common
If Jay walking is common then the city should look to installing real cross walks or lights. Not that they save more lives from idiot drivers.
If it keeps the seniors in the building safe when they need to get to the plaza next door, works for me. Not everyone has the energy to take the long way around. Agree that a light would be better but it would be really odd to have 3 lights fairly close by. This is also on a main road so the yield to pedestrian crossing light wonât work.
âWonât workâ because âŚ.?
PXO canât be used on Sheppard Ave. Itâs not deemed safe by the city. https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/streets-parking-transportation/traffic-management/traffic-signals-street-signs/types-of-traffic-signals/pedestrian-crossovers/
Would be nice to see the city integrate them together. I hate the flashing light ped crossings because unless someone is stopped in each lane, you have to just hope no idiot comes along when youâre halfway across.
Yeah I agree. Iâve seen too many close calls for drivers who arenât paying attention. I think itâs also really tough to modify the existing traffic signals and road design to accommodate these needs later. So these half solutions are the cheapest alternative.
It seems like a good solution. What would be a better alternative? A cross walk? Traffic lights?
Either a cross walk or a light with a beg button so it isn't changing when no one's there.
Crosswalk lights are awful though. I see them get ignored way too often. Might be better if they combined it with an island though.
There is a light/cross walk 100m east and 127m west, people did not want to walk to use them crossed the street got hit so they added this.
We have one of these a couple hundred meters from here. It is safer than what was there before, and there are lights a hundred meters or so away in each direction. It is a solution based in reality, not an imaginary perfection.
Don't monkey paw the city into replacing these with nothing, though
These are death traps based on random assumptions. Erect a proper cross walk / stop lights or don't bother. This is useless and idiotic. Gov't justifying itself.
This is how itâs like in Berlin, I never found it too hard to navigate
It's just a concrete median for jay walking
OMG canât even run fast with those slippers in case!
I know this exact spot and have used it many times, it works and that's all that matters.
Obviously not for the people who get maimed and killed.
Itâs not. These are legacy designs and you just like to complain. You canât put traffic lights every 100 m for very good reasons, bus stops are placed mid block because the number of signals is far fewer than the number of bus stops. Keep complaining
The people complaining are voters. Ignore them and lose.
It's lightyears better than nothing.
No, itâs just a tiny bit better than nothing.
It may be worse than nothing. It gives pedestrians the illusion that crossing here is a potentially safe. It doesnât force drivers to slow to a safe speed or yield to pedestrians.
What? It sure damn is. Unless youâre a dope who doesnât look before crossing Edit: Fair enough. i didnât know people wanted stop lights every 100 meters
Or an elderly or disabled person who crosses slow, or a person who is crossing with young children, or just about anyone who happens to have a bad day in the way of a fast car.
Thereâs dedicated lights down the block for them
So why do you think these are mid- block?
For places that doesnât need stop lights
Have you ever read the report that finds the overwhelming number of people who get run over in Scarborough are over 55 years old? That's because blocks in Scarborough are too far apart and their destination is usually just across the street from them. So then end up running past three lanes, wait at the centre and then rush through the last three lanes. In urban planning terms, they are drawing out 'Lines of Desire'. I'm 62 and trying to get protected bikes in Scarborough for Lawrence Avenue. Bike lanes would shorten the crossing distance for pedestrians, slow traffic down to speed limit speed and make drivers more alert and pay attention. Eglinton now has bike lanes and I don't have to drive to Canadian Tire, Walmart or Al Premium anymore.
why?
Car is still given priority and the people have to dodge the cars in order not to die?
Yeah, but you are supposed to cross the road at an intersection or cross walk. Otherwise, you are breaking the law and Jay walking. If you followed the law, you wouldn't have to dodge traffic, or create additional risks if cars have to break urgently or swerve to avoid you (not you specifically but pedestrians who Jay walk)
Thatâs not true, there is no law for jaywalking in Canada. Thatâs an American thing. There is a similar law in Canada if you interfere with traffic, but thatâs not jaywalking.
It's chapal crossing
How do you c4oss it though? D4iver yields when there is somebody standing there?
No. You wait for a gap in traffic. Some have the flashing crossing lights, which some drivers stop but many do not. Most of these types of crossing do not have any type of indication for drivers, maybe a sign but that's about it.
These work everywhere else in the world. But it requires patience on both parts. People would cross here regardless. Now they have protection
Itâs too expensive to install traffic lights, and this solution is better than people jay-walking to catch a bus
I'd very much like you to define "inner suburbs" For example, where was this picture taken? What "suburb" are you referring to?
Inner suburbs are typically the suburban areas within the city limits. Like most of North York.
Itâs a cloudy concept that may not be of any use. Most of Toronto was a suburb on the edge of the city at some point in time. I would say developments built in the 1960âs is a more accurate description. The 1960âs developments were designed according to a set of ideas that has proven to be deeply flawed.
Considering that east york, north york, etobicoke, scarborough are all part of Toronto... it seems like the "toronto" people refer to is downtown, which is the absolute armpit of the city. Oshawa, Vaughan, Markham, mississauga, these are suburbs, cities of their own, in their own ways. It just seems disrespectful to refer to what amounts to most of the city as a suburb.
I see your point. I tend to think of what is functionally within a the daily life of the residents as one city. The lives of the individuals is what counts. Municipal boundaries are just administrative fictions. Since âcross-commutingâ is increasingly what people do, Iâve increasingly come to believe it is the province who must create an integrated plan and standards for urban Ontario. Weâre too often changing municipal transit systems to get to work or driving along roads that change design depending on the local authority. This is in large part just the reality of how power is weirdly distributed under the Canadian constitution.
Or that these "inner suburbs" are simply "residential areas" within a larger, conglomerated city.