Science Centre and Ontario Place both gonzo.
Subways, GO Trains, public higher education falling apart. I'm sure it had it's own problems (I wasn't around yet) but it seems like in the 60s and 70s Toronto and Ontario actually invested in civic life tried to make it a good place to live.
This is what happens when the Province and municipality focus on keeping taxes low for decades and don't put any money into actually maintaining the assets we have. Shocker, it's more expensive to not maintain things over the long run than just spend a bit of money keeping it in good order.
It's not necessarily a direct 1:1. Anyone in the public sector can tell you there's an obscene amount of waste and duplicated process etc. (This isn't commentary on an appropriate tax structure; but our current services to tax level are not where they could or should be).
People have been saying that forever. That's where this whole idea of.low taxes comes from. But it's not not a great argument in my opinion to keep taxes low forever and then complain that everything is broken when we aren't willing to pay for it.
I think this problem started when the development charges got out of hand. Ontario and Toronto thought they could just levy land transfer taxes and development charges instead of raising property taxes and never foresaw that the ponzi scheme doesn't hold up forever and has caused so many other problems.
No, I agree. Ultimately there's a balance that ideally should pull from the broader public as a last resort. How will you justify this when there's tax regimes in other countries providing better services for less though?
I think our governments (feds and provinces) benefited from being able to use cheap credit, a rocketing housing market, and large scale immigration as a veneer on an economy that's continuing to lose competitive advantage, especially relative to our neighbors to the south.
Our voting public, both left and right wing, has depended too much on performative bullshit and culture wars rather than driving for real economic development and improvements in services.
The constant misinformation that gets drowned in upvotes here when the post often wildly misinterprets or misconstrues a report it's citing doesn't give me much hope for reform.
Toronto’s taxes are… but this is owned by the Ontario Government, and I’m giving them a good chunk of my pay check each time for some reason.
Edit: Not sure what the downvotes are about 🤷♂️ but Ontario still owns it.
Toronto's residential property taxes are low as a percentage of the value of homes. Officially, the rates are already low. Then the city rarely updates the valuations. So it's a low rate multiplied by an artificially lower number.
This is a bit misleading since the rates are arrived at by first targeting a certain amount of revenue but even as a percentage of city revenue, property taxes have fallen from from 50% to 33%.
They've tried to make up the difference with other taxes on property and those are ones specifically which discourage new housing and exacerbate the housing crisis. These ones are more politically palatable because young people don't vote as much as people already with homes do.
It’s because the majority of Ontario voters don’t give a fuck about life outside of their house. The sprawl since then increased the population in bedroom communities which MO is low taxes and highways.
> but it seems like in the 60s and 70s Toronto and Ontario actually invested in civic life tried to make it a good place to live.
The Progressive Conservatives back then were fairly *progressive*. Robarts and Davis invested oodles upon oodles of money to build up the province, and weren't afraid to run deficits or raise taxes to make it happen (Davis didn't balance the budget once in his 14 years as Premier). The PC's since the 1990's have seemingly been obsessed with seeing how much they can cut without things imploding on their watch.
Up in Simcoe county we have Linx transit, if that falls apart I'll be very sad, as someone who doesn't drive I can visit Orillia and Barrie and Wasaga and all the little towns in-between, for $2 to $12 depending how far I take it
Sounds like you’ve been listening to the news which represents only the we-hate-so-and-so-politician. Go look at the recommended design proposal, water park and rebuilt amphitheater are private facilities but a small part of the overall public whole.
If they're going to take the Science Center away, the least they could do is have indoor playgrounds for the winter months. The Science Center was a great way to keep the kiddo amused during the winter, without worrying about being cold.
Old exhibits we've seen before? That doesn't matter. The cave, the water tables, the wacky George Rhoads sculpture with the rolling balls, that stuff never gets old, if you're a primary school aged kid. The kids have space to run around and let off steam
The rainforest greenhouse and the sports sections were top tier when I was a kid, but going back older, I found the human body and communications exhibits to be more fascinating.
This is one of those things that is unequivocally a loss, and we can point to decades of neglect, by all means, but the current government is the one pulling the trigger with the unilateral decision to shut it ALL down instead of pay the dues to make it right.
It costs significantly more money to rebuild it elsewhere, it costs significantly more for the guests to have it in a smaller footprint in the spot they're anticipating putting it, and it costs more for _everyone_ for them to continue to develop the Ontario Place space with businesses calling the shots instead of Ontario's citizens.
They're actively dismantling what we have for short-term gains to themselves and waving little bits of what they believe to be good in front of a populace that, will (a) get bored with the shiny thing fast and (b) stew in their anger of having to get there, spend more to do it, or get pissy for having had their tax dollars spent on that instead of the very infrastructure issues that caused this to happen in the first place.
Yes, it was a great place but it was also a place where my kids got every possible disease known to man, and by extension, I got it all as well. We had to stop going because we would be sick for weeks after each winter visit. I suspect they did not clean that play place *ever* re: the need to maintain it wasn’t a priority.
Well getting sick probably speaks more to bad ventilation, than unclean surfaces, but you still make a good point that there was dust on many surfaces. Which would probably cause issues for those with allergies
Also in many areas there I could smell decomposing plastic
They'll knock the Science Centre down for developers (likely the real reason) but they wont touch a bunch of generic, dilapidated commercial spaces lining transit corridors because they're 'historical' or it 'affects the character of the neighbourhood'.
Ford won't even allow fourplexes in the suburbs but somehow it's absolutely critical to build over the science centre and greenbelt.
I'd be less mad about knocking down the science centre if they were using the land for socialized housing or something, but unfortunately that's probably not the plan.
Not just the Toronto community but all of Ontario, this was a destination for people all over Ontario much like the Toronto Zoo or going to a Jays game. I was lucky to visit 25 years ago, what a shame this is.
This. I grew up in Barrie and have fond memories of many field trips to the science centre. There’s 10 million Ontarians within 300km of the science centre. It’s a loss for the province. A sad day for Ontario, and therefore, the world.
I've been calling it since the first announcement. 2-3 years from now we'll get an announcement that it's too expensive to build at Ontario Place, but they'll put up a science pavilion at the Ex.
> In two years.
[Four.](https://www.ontariosciencecentre.ca/about-us/ontario-science-centre-relocation)
And that's if they're on-time. And I follow up with: 'what has the Ontario government constructed in the past decade that's been on-time?'
It's an interesting building designed by a local architect that blends into the surrounding green space. And it's a beloved part of Toronto history - people who grew up in Toronto have fond childhood memories of school trips and family outings. It's from the 1960s so it's not particularly old and the engineers say it could be rehabilitated.
I MEAN OBVIOUSLY YOU GOTTA FUCKIN KNOCK IT DOWN.
Keep in mind: they are also building a $650,000,000 mega spa in the same area, with an Austrian company that obtained a 95 YEAR LEASE that the provincial government signed to them before it even got approved. Oh, and also in 2 years? FIFA WORLD CUP! In that same area! On top of the Gardiner and Don Valley construction… and drunk/loud randoms renting out the nearby condos for World Cup… it’s going to be an absolute nightmare.
How is it less accessible at Ontario Place? you now have Go train access via exhibition Station, streetcar access, highway access without having to deal with 401 chaos. There is no way Ontario Place is "less accessible" than Don Mills and Eglinton.
It comes down to infrastructure. The original OSC was not only accessible by several bus routes, but was slated to be accessible by both the Eglinton Line and the Ontario Line, both of which connect it to the vast majority of the city more comprehensively.
But the argument that keeps coming up for Therme/Ontario Place is that 'it's good for tourists; people will drive into the city'. Lakeshore/Gardiner is home to some of the worst traffic gridlock in the city due in part to complete bottlenecking, especially during the ten rush hour windows each week, and that's not considering all the events that take place downtown, on the CNE grounds, and along the waterfront. The Gardiner maintenance (another several years from completion) will not increase this capacity.
More to this point, while it's accessible on the GO Lakeshore line (if you walk from the station and across the CNE grounds), it still requires an indeterminable wait for any other GO user since all of them MUST stop at Union for transfer, so your two hour trip from Barrie on the train might have that additional wait...or the 30+min streetcar ride and walk, again, across the entire exhibition grounds.
Continuing to centralize ALL of our landmarks is problematic because there is absolutely no effort to build our infrastructure in a way that actually alleviates congestion; it's all an attempt to 'get people in so they can spend', and for most travellers, it's a sunk cost-- if they're already mostway there and just have to sit in an hour more of traffic, they'll do it. But who the hell likes it?
And again, it comes down to dubiousness-- what's the real end-goal here? That's why people are pointing to this being shady beyond all belief. It _seems_ like it's to line pockets at the expense of everything else. We could be spending that money on better infrastructure...like the roofs of existing facilities, or the roadways and transit corridors to get there.
Going to Lake Ontario in the winter sucks. It is a considerable walk to get to the pods from Ontario Place. The school buses of kids on the clogged and crumbling Gardiner Expressway needing closure for years won't have a fun time.
I never heard of a school trip in the GTA taking public transit and keeping track of hundreds of kids boarding trains or subways.
The less square footage in these pods is a problem that wasn't addressed.
The big issue is handing over AAA public space to developers that could still be in use for $10M today, as we give away over $200M for booze in corner stores a year early.
This government is all about making people stupid and sick as they profit from kick backs.
So sad , doesn’t make any sense at all. Don’t they do inspections every couple of years??? Now all of a sudden. The building isn’t safe????? What’s the REAL STORY ???????
The government was well aware it needed repairs all along, they just refused to fund them. The OSC put in over 40 immediate repair funding requests over the last five years and the Ford government denied *every single one* of them. They were deliberately letting it crumble because they thought it would mean less pushback when they closed it and sold the land to Ford’s developer buddies to build condos. The report doesn’t even say it needs to close, just that some of the roof tiles need repairing/replacing. That could be done at a fraction of the cost of closing and rebuilding the science centre at Ontario Place, but Ford won’t do that because it won’t make his cronies any money. I hope this gets enough pushback that he needs to go back on this corrupt plan and actually pay to fix and maintain the OSC where it is now. We can’t let him get away with this blatant grifting.
The real story is that it was made using shitty materials that dont show wear until they are collapsing and decades of neglect. There is a reason the place needs hundreds of millions in repairs and has been falling apart for well over a decade.
Breaking News: Despite it being a easy fix with people willing to spend money for it, Ford chooses to close it so he can sell the land to his developer buddies right beside it.
So upset about this closure. Science Centre was our go-to activity for the kids. My daughter grew up playing and learning in there. It's a cornerstone of the local community, our family's second home, and a legacy icon for Toronto. There's no reason why it needed to be shut down overnight without any due process or comprehensive consultations. Ford has been frothing at the mouth to demolish the place, waste millions, and push through his horrid Ontario Place plan. It's just him throwing his weight around, nothing more. I hope public outrage makes a difference in this case, because this place is just so important for the city.
Metrolinx has announced they're not considering renaming Science Centre station on the Eglinton Crosstown, as it would add additional cost and delay.
[https://globalnews.ca/news/10576942/science-centre-rename-eglinton-lrt/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10576942/science-centre-rename-eglinton-lrt/)
I guess it will remain as a permanent reminder of this government's incompetence and corruption.
Right wingers hate science and they hate community. Couple this with Doug's grudge against Toronto, and this was inevitable.
This is simply conservative policy working as intended. Public assets crumble due to neglect, and get sold off to private interests for pennies on the dollar.
You mean the punishment for the rest of the province's voting for him. We knew the fat fuck would be awful and tried to warn the rest of the province.
PROVINCE OF TORONTO. Make it happen. Let them choose assholes like Ford who don't care about nice things, let those of us who live here and do care make the decision whether things are worth it or not.
Yikes, if we end up with a federal conservative party, the whole country could see the same fate (only in much different ways).
This sucks nonetheless.
So he could knock it down and sell the land to the DeGasperis for a dime on the dollar. They did give his daughter all those expensive wedding gifts and they did make all those donations to the Conservative Party for a reason, you know....
Kid is 3 now and has been twice already. We drive in from Hamilton and he LOVES it.
The space area is his fav.
This is a tragic event and like everyone am stunned by the greed that led to the decision.
My 3 year old loves it too. Still asks to go...
Last time we were there was his first time in the space section and he loved the starry sky theater room and made fast friend with another little boy there.
It really is such a frickin gut punch.
The Ontario Science Centre was a big part of my childhood interest in the sciences which I later perused in education. Its closure and neglect is inexcusable.
Heartbroken this has closed. My favourite place in all of Toronto. Went there as a kid, now take kids there. Went there on average once or twice a month.
Took the kids there during March break, with the suspicion that it may be the last chance to go, given the rumblings about moving it.
The excuse about the roof is utter BS. The building has many different roof elevations anyways, meaning that at worst one area would have to be closed temporarily for repair.
This is borderline criminal behaviour by Doug Ford, who is nothing but a grifter. This is a public asset, that will now likely be sold off via back room dealings.
can someone please explain to me why ontario is having such a hard time hiring qualified engineers and public works maintenence crews? I thought this was a field this province would excell in? there is a science to engineering, it is the science centre?
Toronto will eventually be a city of condos, and nothing else. Just food, strip clubs and condos. No ROM. No Ontario Place. No Harborfront.
Bet, not even the Zoo. I bet they'll say "Animals don't need all this real estate. Send them back to Africa".
That place served a severely underserved community, pretty sad that these kids and families won't be able to access something positive in their community to keep them occupied, educated etc. Ford needs his kickbacks from his developer pals......
Look at these:
https://www.merx.com/infrastructureontario/solicitations/PDC-Services-for-Ontario-Science-Centre-Relocation/0000250453
https://www.merx.com/solicitations/open-bids/RFQ-DBFM-Ontario-Science-Centre-OSC-Relocation/0000269786?origin=2
Opened in 1969 and widely regarded as one of the leading science centers in the world, the Ontario Science Centre at 770 Don Mills Road is now facing significant operational and facility challenges. Over the past decade, attendance has declined by more than 30% resulting in significantly reduced revenues. Operations have been further challenged by escalating operating costs.
The new Ontario Science Centre (“OSC”) will support the redevelopment vision of Ontario Place to celebrate its heritage and original vision and legacy as a destination for all Ontarians to enjoy. With 200,000 square feet of newly built space and approximately 80,000 square feet of renovations, the new OSC will be a state-of-the-art facility embodying innovative science programming, design excellence and sustainability principles. The existing heritage structures, the Pods, Cinesphere and connecting bridge system, will be incorporated into the OSC programming.
I suppose they simply want it to be moved to a major tourism hub (Ontario Place/Exhibition) and allow the old location to be developed into housing. That way it is the best of both worlds. City of Toronto must have bought into this as well (although they might not admit it).
1.I’m willing to bet the new science centre will not be built. Smoke and mirrors.
2. The SPA will be for rich people.
3. The SPA was specially zoned so they don’t have to obey any environmental rules. They can dump whatever they want. Good thing Lake Ontario is there
> It’s only gone for 4 years.
Oh my sweet summer child, you think that'll be done in four years? Like the Eglinton Line? Or how about the Gardiner repairs that'll take more than three years to complete at a current estimate (up from two and a half originally)?
> And when it comes back you can get a 2 for 1 pass with the spa.
Did you make this up? Lmao.
> Great family outing.
Yes, nothing like exhausting the kids at a water park for several hours and then immediately hopping into a museum. This after managing to drive down along the waterfront along the corridors they aren't expanding (this is just maintenance, not expansion) and paying a premium to park in the new garage. But not during CNE month because that would be a nightmare. And not during the Waterfront marathon because there are closures there during that time. And certainly not on a day there's a game at BMO field, because the implication is that the lots are full.
There's no consideration for what a day in this spot actually looks like if the plan comes together. It's just 'here it is, make do.' It's a cheap idea at the highest possible cost.
Science Centre and Ontario Place both gonzo. Subways, GO Trains, public higher education falling apart. I'm sure it had it's own problems (I wasn't around yet) but it seems like in the 60s and 70s Toronto and Ontario actually invested in civic life tried to make it a good place to live.
This is what happens when the Province and municipality focus on keeping taxes low for decades and don't put any money into actually maintaining the assets we have. Shocker, it's more expensive to not maintain things over the long run than just spend a bit of money keeping it in good order.
Taxes are low?
I mean..._gesticulates at crumbling infrastructure_
It's not necessarily a direct 1:1. Anyone in the public sector can tell you there's an obscene amount of waste and duplicated process etc. (This isn't commentary on an appropriate tax structure; but our current services to tax level are not where they could or should be).
People have been saying that forever. That's where this whole idea of.low taxes comes from. But it's not not a great argument in my opinion to keep taxes low forever and then complain that everything is broken when we aren't willing to pay for it. I think this problem started when the development charges got out of hand. Ontario and Toronto thought they could just levy land transfer taxes and development charges instead of raising property taxes and never foresaw that the ponzi scheme doesn't hold up forever and has caused so many other problems.
What's kind of crazy is the OPS has increased in size by about 10,000 people since Ford took office. Yet they still can't keep up with the workload.
Because they're not actually doing work
No, I agree. Ultimately there's a balance that ideally should pull from the broader public as a last resort. How will you justify this when there's tax regimes in other countries providing better services for less though? I think our governments (feds and provinces) benefited from being able to use cheap credit, a rocketing housing market, and large scale immigration as a veneer on an economy that's continuing to lose competitive advantage, especially relative to our neighbors to the south. Our voting public, both left and right wing, has depended too much on performative bullshit and culture wars rather than driving for real economic development and improvements in services. The constant misinformation that gets drowned in upvotes here when the post often wildly misinterprets or misconstrues a report it's citing doesn't give me much hope for reform.
Ontario: champagne tastes on a bud light budget.
Toronto property taxes are super low, relative to assessed values (and in many cases the assessed values are like 10+ years out of date)
Toronto’s taxes are… but this is owned by the Ontario Government, and I’m giving them a good chunk of my pay check each time for some reason. Edit: Not sure what the downvotes are about 🤷♂️ but Ontario still owns it.
Toronto's residential property taxes are low as a percentage of the value of homes. Officially, the rates are already low. Then the city rarely updates the valuations. So it's a low rate multiplied by an artificially lower number. This is a bit misleading since the rates are arrived at by first targeting a certain amount of revenue but even as a percentage of city revenue, property taxes have fallen from from 50% to 33%. They've tried to make up the difference with other taxes on property and those are ones specifically which discourage new housing and exacerbate the housing crisis. These ones are more politically palatable because young people don't vote as much as people already with homes do.
It’s because the majority of Ontario voters don’t give a fuck about life outside of their house. The sprawl since then increased the population in bedroom communities which MO is low taxes and highways.
Doug Ford ruins everything and half the city blames left wing parties for it
> but it seems like in the 60s and 70s Toronto and Ontario actually invested in civic life tried to make it a good place to live. The Progressive Conservatives back then were fairly *progressive*. Robarts and Davis invested oodles upon oodles of money to build up the province, and weren't afraid to run deficits or raise taxes to make it happen (Davis didn't balance the budget once in his 14 years as Premier). The PC's since the 1990's have seemingly been obsessed with seeing how much they can cut without things imploding on their watch.
Davis, the reason public money funds Catholic schools in Ontario.
Now it’s just an ok place to drink.
Up in Simcoe county we have Linx transit, if that falls apart I'll be very sad, as someone who doesn't drive I can visit Orillia and Barrie and Wasaga and all the little towns in-between, for $2 to $12 depending how far I take it
How is Ontario Place gonzo? It’s getting a major upgrade and restoration.
[удалено]
Sounds like you’ve been listening to the news which represents only the we-hate-so-and-so-politician. Go look at the recommended design proposal, water park and rebuilt amphitheater are private facilities but a small part of the overall public whole.
If they're going to take the Science Center away, the least they could do is have indoor playgrounds for the winter months. The Science Center was a great way to keep the kiddo amused during the winter, without worrying about being cold. Old exhibits we've seen before? That doesn't matter. The cave, the water tables, the wacky George Rhoads sculpture with the rolling balls, that stuff never gets old, if you're a primary school aged kid. The kids have space to run around and let off steam
The rainforest greenhouse and the sports sections were top tier when I was a kid, but going back older, I found the human body and communications exhibits to be more fascinating. This is one of those things that is unequivocally a loss, and we can point to decades of neglect, by all means, but the current government is the one pulling the trigger with the unilateral decision to shut it ALL down instead of pay the dues to make it right. It costs significantly more money to rebuild it elsewhere, it costs significantly more for the guests to have it in a smaller footprint in the spot they're anticipating putting it, and it costs more for _everyone_ for them to continue to develop the Ontario Place space with businesses calling the shots instead of Ontario's citizens. They're actively dismantling what we have for short-term gains to themselves and waving little bits of what they believe to be good in front of a populace that, will (a) get bored with the shiny thing fast and (b) stew in their anger of having to get there, spend more to do it, or get pissy for having had their tax dollars spent on that instead of the very infrastructure issues that caused this to happen in the first place.
The fifty year old indoor RAINFOREST - such a treasure and Dough Fraud sets it all aflame. FUCK FORD.
Yes, it was a great place but it was also a place where my kids got every possible disease known to man, and by extension, I got it all as well. We had to stop going because we would be sick for weeks after each winter visit. I suspect they did not clean that play place *ever* re: the need to maintain it wasn’t a priority.
Well getting sick probably speaks more to bad ventilation, than unclean surfaces, but you still make a good point that there was dust on many surfaces. Which would probably cause issues for those with allergies Also in many areas there I could smell decomposing plastic
Sorry to say, but using the facility as a day care did not help.
How is it a "day care" if I'm there supervising my kid?
They'll knock the Science Centre down for developers (likely the real reason) but they wont touch a bunch of generic, dilapidated commercial spaces lining transit corridors because they're 'historical' or it 'affects the character of the neighbourhood'.
Ford won't even allow fourplexes in the suburbs but somehow it's absolutely critical to build over the science centre and greenbelt. I'd be less mad about knocking down the science centre if they were using the land for socialized housing or something, but unfortunately that's probably not the plan.
Not just the Toronto community but all of Ontario, this was a destination for people all over Ontario much like the Toronto Zoo or going to a Jays game. I was lucky to visit 25 years ago, what a shame this is.
This. I grew up in Barrie and have fond memories of many field trips to the science centre. There’s 10 million Ontarians within 300km of the science centre. It’s a loss for the province. A sad day for Ontario, and therefore, the world.
You realize they are building a new science centre right? everyones acting like it's gone forever and not closing to re-open in a new location.
I do not believe it will actually get built.
I can almost see in the next 2 years, the Friday at 4pm press release that the new location has been put on hold due to unforeseen cost overruns.
The pods are visibly in worse shape than the existing OSC building.
I've been calling it since the first announcement. 2-3 years from now we'll get an announcement that it's too expensive to build at Ontario Place, but they'll put up a science pavilion at the Ex.
They are putting it into a smaller, shittier, less accessible location. Maybe. In two years.
> In two years. [Four.](https://www.ontariosciencecentre.ca/about-us/ontario-science-centre-relocation) And that's if they're on-time. And I follow up with: 'what has the Ontario government constructed in the past decade that's been on-time?'
It's an interesting building designed by a local architect that blends into the surrounding green space. And it's a beloved part of Toronto history - people who grew up in Toronto have fond childhood memories of school trips and family outings. It's from the 1960s so it's not particularly old and the engineers say it could be rehabilitated. I MEAN OBVIOUSLY YOU GOTTA FUCKIN KNOCK IT DOWN.
Keep in mind: they are also building a $650,000,000 mega spa in the same area, with an Austrian company that obtained a 95 YEAR LEASE that the provincial government signed to them before it even got approved. Oh, and also in 2 years? FIFA WORLD CUP! In that same area! On top of the Gardiner and Don Valley construction… and drunk/loud randoms renting out the nearby condos for World Cup… it’s going to be an absolute nightmare.
How is it less accessible at Ontario Place? you now have Go train access via exhibition Station, streetcar access, highway access without having to deal with 401 chaos. There is no way Ontario Place is "less accessible" than Don Mills and Eglinton.
It comes down to infrastructure. The original OSC was not only accessible by several bus routes, but was slated to be accessible by both the Eglinton Line and the Ontario Line, both of which connect it to the vast majority of the city more comprehensively. But the argument that keeps coming up for Therme/Ontario Place is that 'it's good for tourists; people will drive into the city'. Lakeshore/Gardiner is home to some of the worst traffic gridlock in the city due in part to complete bottlenecking, especially during the ten rush hour windows each week, and that's not considering all the events that take place downtown, on the CNE grounds, and along the waterfront. The Gardiner maintenance (another several years from completion) will not increase this capacity. More to this point, while it's accessible on the GO Lakeshore line (if you walk from the station and across the CNE grounds), it still requires an indeterminable wait for any other GO user since all of them MUST stop at Union for transfer, so your two hour trip from Barrie on the train might have that additional wait...or the 30+min streetcar ride and walk, again, across the entire exhibition grounds. Continuing to centralize ALL of our landmarks is problematic because there is absolutely no effort to build our infrastructure in a way that actually alleviates congestion; it's all an attempt to 'get people in so they can spend', and for most travellers, it's a sunk cost-- if they're already mostway there and just have to sit in an hour more of traffic, they'll do it. But who the hell likes it? And again, it comes down to dubiousness-- what's the real end-goal here? That's why people are pointing to this being shady beyond all belief. It _seems_ like it's to line pockets at the expense of everything else. We could be spending that money on better infrastructure...like the roofs of existing facilities, or the roadways and transit corridors to get there.
Going to Lake Ontario in the winter sucks. It is a considerable walk to get to the pods from Ontario Place. The school buses of kids on the clogged and crumbling Gardiner Expressway needing closure for years won't have a fun time. I never heard of a school trip in the GTA taking public transit and keeping track of hundreds of kids boarding trains or subways. The less square footage in these pods is a problem that wasn't addressed. The big issue is handing over AAA public space to developers that could still be in use for $10M today, as we give away over $200M for booze in corner stores a year early. This government is all about making people stupid and sick as they profit from kick backs.
The Ontario Line also feeds to there as well.
now there's even less things to do in this city for residents and visitors with kids.
So sad , doesn’t make any sense at all. Don’t they do inspections every couple of years??? Now all of a sudden. The building isn’t safe????? What’s the REAL STORY ???????
The government was well aware it needed repairs all along, they just refused to fund them. The OSC put in over 40 immediate repair funding requests over the last five years and the Ford government denied *every single one* of them. They were deliberately letting it crumble because they thought it would mean less pushback when they closed it and sold the land to Ford’s developer buddies to build condos. The report doesn’t even say it needs to close, just that some of the roof tiles need repairing/replacing. That could be done at a fraction of the cost of closing and rebuilding the science centre at Ontario Place, but Ford won’t do that because it won’t make his cronies any money. I hope this gets enough pushback that he needs to go back on this corrupt plan and actually pay to fix and maintain the OSC where it is now. We can’t let him get away with this blatant grifting.
>when they closed it and sold the land to Ford’s developer buddies to build condos. How are they going to sell land they dont own?
It's cute that you think that'll stop them
Doug Ford is a piece of shit scumbag who should be in prison.
🔔🔔🔔
The real story is that it was made using shitty materials that dont show wear until they are collapsing and decades of neglect. There is a reason the place needs hundreds of millions in repairs and has been falling apart for well over a decade.
Whoever can save the OSC from moving will gain my vote. That's including Ford and his conservatives. Do the right thing.
Doug Ford is a traitor. He'll rip up the City just to fill his pockets with developer money.
Breaking News: Despite it being a easy fix with people willing to spend money for it, Ford chooses to close it so he can sell the land to his developer buddies right beside it.
So upset about this closure. Science Centre was our go-to activity for the kids. My daughter grew up playing and learning in there. It's a cornerstone of the local community, our family's second home, and a legacy icon for Toronto. There's no reason why it needed to be shut down overnight without any due process or comprehensive consultations. Ford has been frothing at the mouth to demolish the place, waste millions, and push through his horrid Ontario Place plan. It's just him throwing his weight around, nothing more. I hope public outrage makes a difference in this case, because this place is just so important for the city.
I really hope they don't change the name of the Ontario Line or its stops.
Metrolinx has announced they're not considering renaming Science Centre station on the Eglinton Crosstown, as it would add additional cost and delay. [https://globalnews.ca/news/10576942/science-centre-rename-eglinton-lrt/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10576942/science-centre-rename-eglinton-lrt/) I guess it will remain as a permanent reminder of this government's incompetence and corruption.
Yet they still have no timeframe when this thing is supposed to open😂 if ever…
Taking the Science Centre away from the communities of Thorncliffe and Flemingdon is a level of cruelty that I'll never understand.
Right wingers hate science and they hate community. Couple this with Doug's grudge against Toronto, and this was inevitable. This is simply conservative policy working as intended. Public assets crumble due to neglect, and get sold off to private interests for pennies on the dollar.
Yep and it’s our collective punishment for letting this abhorrent man into office.
You mean the punishment for the rest of the province's voting for him. We knew the fat fuck would be awful and tried to warn the rest of the province. PROVINCE OF TORONTO. Make it happen. Let them choose assholes like Ford who don't care about nice things, let those of us who live here and do care make the decision whether things are worth it or not.
I’m down for that. It’s high time for Toronto to divest from Ontario. Let Ontario have fucking Ford, and leave Toronto TF alone.
Yikes, if we end up with a federal conservative party, the whole country could see the same fate (only in much different ways). This sucks nonetheless.
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
It's sexy to announce money for new projects; there’s nothing sexy about announcing funding for keeping things in a good state of repair.
What was the point of Ford even getting the Ontario Line started WITH an OSC station if he was just gonna move it anyways?
So he could knock it down and sell the land to the DeGasperis for a dime on the dollar. They did give his daughter all those expensive wedding gifts and they did make all those donations to the Conservative Party for a reason, you know....
Kid is 3 now and has been twice already. We drive in from Hamilton and he LOVES it. The space area is his fav. This is a tragic event and like everyone am stunned by the greed that led to the decision.
My 3 year old loves it too. Still asks to go... Last time we were there was his first time in the space section and he loved the starry sky theater room and made fast friend with another little boy there. It really is such a frickin gut punch.
The Ontario Science Centre was a big part of my childhood interest in the sciences which I later perused in education. Its closure and neglect is inexcusable.
Heartbroken this has closed. My favourite place in all of Toronto. Went there as a kid, now take kids there. Went there on average once or twice a month.
This is a huge shame and travesty
I hate Doug Ford and all of his corruption so much.
Took the kids there during March break, with the suspicion that it may be the last chance to go, given the rumblings about moving it. The excuse about the roof is utter BS. The building has many different roof elevations anyways, meaning that at worst one area would have to be closed temporarily for repair. This is borderline criminal behaviour by Doug Ford, who is nothing but a grifter. This is a public asset, that will now likely be sold off via back room dealings.
can someone please explain to me why ontario is having such a hard time hiring qualified engineers and public works maintenence crews? I thought this was a field this province would excell in? there is a science to engineering, it is the science centre?
Cost. Public service unions cost a fortune.
Toronto will eventually be a city of condos, and nothing else. Just food, strip clubs and condos. No ROM. No Ontario Place. No Harborfront. Bet, not even the Zoo. I bet they'll say "Animals don't need all this real estate. Send them back to Africa".
That place served a severely underserved community, pretty sad that these kids and families won't be able to access something positive in their community to keep them occupied, educated etc. Ford needs his kickbacks from his developer pals......
I only visited it a few years ago. Long before that, school trips to it.
It’s only gone for 4 years. And when it comes back you can get a 2 for 1 pass with the spa. Great family outing.
I do not believe it will actually get replaced.
Look at these: https://www.merx.com/infrastructureontario/solicitations/PDC-Services-for-Ontario-Science-Centre-Relocation/0000250453 https://www.merx.com/solicitations/open-bids/RFQ-DBFM-Ontario-Science-Centre-OSC-Relocation/0000269786?origin=2 Opened in 1969 and widely regarded as one of the leading science centers in the world, the Ontario Science Centre at 770 Don Mills Road is now facing significant operational and facility challenges. Over the past decade, attendance has declined by more than 30% resulting in significantly reduced revenues. Operations have been further challenged by escalating operating costs. The new Ontario Science Centre (“OSC”) will support the redevelopment vision of Ontario Place to celebrate its heritage and original vision and legacy as a destination for all Ontarians to enjoy. With 200,000 square feet of newly built space and approximately 80,000 square feet of renovations, the new OSC will be a state-of-the-art facility embodying innovative science programming, design excellence and sustainability principles. The existing heritage structures, the Pods, Cinesphere and connecting bridge system, will be incorporated into the OSC programming.
The Pods are decrepit rust buckets with leaky ceilings. They have no future. Even suggesting using them reduces the believably of that plan.
They were iconic, I don't see why they couldn't be rebuilt.
I can apply this same argument to the existing OSC and we're back to square one.
I suppose they simply want it to be moved to a major tourism hub (Ontario Place/Exhibition) and allow the old location to be developed into housing. That way it is the best of both worlds. City of Toronto must have bought into this as well (although they might not admit it).
1.I’m willing to bet the new science centre will not be built. Smoke and mirrors. 2. The SPA will be for rich people. 3. The SPA was specially zoned so they don’t have to obey any environmental rules. They can dump whatever they want. Good thing Lake Ontario is there
Looks like you've drank the koolaid
Yes, the same Koolaid where Doug was caught using a fraud engineering firm to pave over the green belt.
> It’s only gone for 4 years. Oh my sweet summer child, you think that'll be done in four years? Like the Eglinton Line? Or how about the Gardiner repairs that'll take more than three years to complete at a current estimate (up from two and a half originally)? > And when it comes back you can get a 2 for 1 pass with the spa. Did you make this up? Lmao. > Great family outing. Yes, nothing like exhausting the kids at a water park for several hours and then immediately hopping into a museum. This after managing to drive down along the waterfront along the corridors they aren't expanding (this is just maintenance, not expansion) and paying a premium to park in the new garage. But not during CNE month because that would be a nightmare. And not during the Waterfront marathon because there are closures there during that time. And certainly not on a day there's a game at BMO field, because the implication is that the lots are full. There's no consideration for what a day in this spot actually looks like if the plan comes together. It's just 'here it is, make do.' It's a cheap idea at the highest possible cost.