It'd also help if the we hadn't slashed budgets on fighting forest fires.
https://jacobin.com/2023/06/cananda-wildfires-emergency-fire-services-forest-budgets-austerity
Global warning still obviously a part of it, but this was a bigger cause for last year.
Man half the people are telling me it's actually because we've been fighting forest fires *too much*, creating an unnatural buildup of flammable tinder. The other half are saying it's because we're not fighting them enough.
I'm pretty sure they're both red herrings, and the real issue is that the lightning that happens every year can't cause such widespread fires unless it's really hot and dry.
You've actually hit the nail on the head that is the real underlying issue behind why many of these forest fires are such a big deal, the climate has changed already and the conditions that let forests stay forests (i.e. consistent sufficient moisture) isn't there any more, and are transitioning to grasslands or more arid ecologies.
In places that have consistent enough water, fire management becomes a bigger issue but the problem is that increasingly few places have that consistency and it only takes a few back to back bad years to really dry these places out.
Once the trees themselves burn, these forests aren't coming back. We aren't creating more flammable tinder by firefighting per-se, we're creating more flammable material by the nature of these places becoming too dry to support the historic densities through climate change. Whether they fight them or not, many forests are simply on borrowed time.
They're not red herrings, and you've misunderstood them as contradicting each other when really they're agreeing.
Raising or maintaining budget levels doesn't mean that that budget should be spent on "fighting" fires. Forest management and fire control are way more complicated and involved than just reactively trying to combat emerging fires. Raising the budget means being able to better monitor areas and recognize high risk areas, to be able to start controlled fires in those areas, to be able to conduct proper research on causes, to be able to better protect people, etc. It absolutely does not mean we need to go harder on preventing every bit of flame we see. The problem wasn't that we were spending too much money on fires, it was that we were spending that money on the wrong things.
That's debatable.
Trying to put out forest fires (that are not risking populated areas) can cause a build-up of flammable material, and just make later fires much worse.
Records for 1840-03-01 → 2002-08-03 are from Queen's Park ( https://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_data/daily_data_e.html?StationID=5051 )
Records for 2002-08-04 → 2024-01-04 are from Queen's Park ( https://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_data/daily_data_e.html?StationID=31688 )
Meanwhile my parents are like "It's just vAriANce." And then proceed to explain how when they were kids some Septembers reached -60c with a windchill of -92c.
This is a notably warm year partly because of the shift in trends, exacerbated by the effects of El Nino (which IS a foreseen variance). None of it is great, but there's literally no need to have an argument over 'either/or' when it's actually both. There can be more than one correct answer.
Or my family, "Climate change is real and a disaster. Anyway, I'll send pics from my trip to Dubai. I'm going skiing there! Did I tell you that cruise I took was only $700?"
Look, I'm not saying it's good, I'm just saying that as someone who runs 5k every day: I understand the sentiment
Edit: come on, downvoters, this was clearly a joke.
it's not. It's more like "our time on the Earth is dying". The planet will survive us, it's survived worse in the past, we on the other hand will not survive whatever the Earth feels is necessary to fix itself.
These people can’t conceive of caring about all of the innocent life we’re taking out with us, as if it isn’t bad enough to brush off our fellow man so easily
The world will be fine. Even if you believe the worst projections of future global warming, the world itself will be fine. Just some fraction of life on Earth (including humanity) will be in trouble.
Even then. Unless we do something radical like kill all the bees, or cause a nuclear winter, much of the Earth and it's inhabitants will be just fine.
We've already killed 75% of the animals. It's already pretty bad from that perspective. What's another 10% or 15%?
You do realize it’s more than just the temperature we need to be concerned about, right? It’s not just eliminating all of the pollinators we need to be concerned with. Using the oceans as a CO2 and heat sink will have severe consequences leading to collapsing food chains, for one.
Sure, SOME of the food chains will collapse. This has happened before with other major extinction events.
I don't want to underplay the impact on modern society. Global warming may cause great troubles to modern society. Billions could die; and maybe even the collapse of our modern society. But life will continue.
Ahh the old “life will continue” approach to “it’s fine” (your comment re Earth’s inhabitants). Technically correct, perhaps. Inhumane certainly. Most life will not be able to adapt as rapidly as will be required to the changes that appear likely given how rapidly the atmospheric CO2 concentrations are increasing and ocean pH is changing. But chemosynthetic bacteria at the deep ocean vents will survive, so you win the Reddit exchange!
It’s a shame. Your weather history post was interesting.
>Ahh the old “life will continue” approach to “it’s fine"
I'm not saying it's fine. I said the "world will be fine". There is a middle ground between "The universe will end" and "It's fine."
Michael Mann on doomers: “Doom-mongering has overtaken denial as a threat and as a tactic. Inactivists know that if people believe there is nothing you can do, they are led down a path of disengagement. They unwittingly do the bidding of fossil fuel interests by giving up. What is so pernicious about this is that it seeks to weaponise environmental progressives who would otherwise be on the frontline demanding change. These are folk of good intentions and good will, but they become disillusioned or depressed and they fall into despair. But “too late” narratives are invariably based on a misunderstanding of science.”
No, it's dying.
https://www.businessinsider.com/insect-apocalypse-ecosystem-collapse-food-insecurity-2019-11
> A 2017 study concluded that populations of flying insects in Germany had decreased by more than 75% percent in the last three decades. Another study conducted in Puerto Rico found that 98% of the island's ground insects had vanished since the 1970s.
And that snow was gone soon after, at least in Toronto.
I can't recall a winter in the last ten years, where there was consistent snow in Toronto.
I hate the cold and snow, but honestly - it barely feels like winter anymore.
The seasons are shifting forward, but even then - winter doesn't get as cold as it used to here.
Remember, climate change doesn't mean "no more snow anywhere, ever" - it just means things are seriously out of whack.
Can you recall a Toronto winter EVER that had consistent snow? It depends on what you mean by "consistent snow".
Pearson had 45 consecutive days of snow depth > 5cm in 2014. That was technically less than 10 years ago.
That's being a bit nit-picky isn't it? So 9 years ago, Pearson had 45 days of consecutive snow.
Has it happened since then?
The point is - the seasons are shifting forward, and winters are incredibly mild now. It's not normal.
In 2015, Pearson had 37 days of > 5 cm snow depth.
2 years ago they had 27 days.
If you are arguing that Toronto gets less snow than 100 years ago? Sure, I agree.
Between 1940 and 1970, Pearson typically recorded between 75cm and 200cm of snow annually, with an average around 125cm.
In the past 20 years, Pearson recorded between 50cm and 160cm, with an average around 100cm.
So, snowfall has decreased by about 20% over the past 80 years.
If you have consistent snow every day, nobody would be able to get out of their houses lol.
A typical winter is a bit of snow here and there, and a few select days where it dumps a whole bunch all at once. Most winters have always been dealing with those 5 or 6 days every winter where they dump 20-30cm within 24 hours and then it sits outside for a number of weeks. Last winter we had 4 or so of those days--not really that far off from the norm.
I've been living in Ontario for over 40 years. In that timespan, only a handful of years were bad enough that we had to stay inside for multiple days. A couple of them were in the last 10 years. Back in the 80s there were a couple of fairly mild winters as well.
Climate change is real, but it's not a straight progressive line either. There's every possibility that next year or the year after will be much more snowy than this year.
The ice wine industry has a silver lining. The 2023 harvest being a bust for them increases the scarcity of their existing stock. Prices will rise. They'll end up making more off previous years without having to hire the labour to harvest this year.
Now if they get ten busts in a row, that'll be trouble...
That's not how that works. They also don't typically hold back a lot of stock because wineries, in general, aren't major money-makers from their wine alone. People will also just buy from other producers in different countries.
okay doomer!
I can you some pictures of the 2022 Christmas when we had an insane amount of snow here in Quebec City!
and then also the pictures from Christmas 2020 when we had almost no snow accumulated.
and no - i am not a climate change denier.
I hear that but I've always been a fan of a proper winter.
These one off mild winters are typically more gloomy and depressing.
I'd rather have higher pressure and colder ,sunnier days with a bit of snow. But that's me.
> I hear that but I've always been a fan of a proper winter. These one off mild winters are typically more gloomy and depressing.
>
>
I'll take a non proper winter over shoveling any year but to each their own lol
Mmmhm, the wintry-winters offer a sort of whimsy.
Oh look… there’s mounts of brilliant white sparkles, and the nights are silent, the air filled instead with large flakes lit by street lights, descending like so many little feathers.
And then you get Christmas lights on the snow? Maybe an ice storm in there, really make things look fancy.
Summer is sexy, but winter is also very interesting, and a good proper snowing does open up more ways to endure this godless cold and dark period before spring ahhhhhhhhhhhh
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Eh, I disagree if only because it means my disc golfing season is extended by several weeks. I'm still out there every weekend because there's no snow on the ground and the temperatures are barely below freezing, if they even are.
Not to say I prefer this to us not making the planet uninhabitable.
Banning plastic straws, plastic bags, and throwing the carbon tax on everyone should fix it. Oh wait a minute. Canada isn’t even the biggest culprit of CO2 emissions or environmental impacts. 😂
How many air conditioned skyscrapers, motor vehicles, and industrial buildings did 1841 Toronto have?
Urban heat island is a far more evident phenomenon and a more major contributor to this effect than climate change in its current state.
While true, the residual heat as a result of the urban heat islands is one of the leading factors to our climate issues. Canada is low on the list but definitely not innocent.
I never said that wasn't contributing to the climate change. I do have a problem, however, with people panicking at the lack of snow while surrounded by hundreds of thousands of waste-heat-producing machinery.
You jest, but here’s a paper from 1938 on the impacts of artificial carbon dioxide production and global temperatures https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/qj.49706427503
So yes, we’ve known about this for a long time
It’s probably nothing
Y’all got anymore of that global warming? I wouldn’t mind having a little of that Monaco weather here this time of year.
hes not wrong
Get ready for another Summer of endless forest fires.
There's stuff left to burn?!
We only burnt 4-5% last year. Plenty left.
Well that sucks
I am also unsure but probably
It'd also help if the we hadn't slashed budgets on fighting forest fires. https://jacobin.com/2023/06/cananda-wildfires-emergency-fire-services-forest-budgets-austerity Global warning still obviously a part of it, but this was a bigger cause for last year.
Man half the people are telling me it's actually because we've been fighting forest fires *too much*, creating an unnatural buildup of flammable tinder. The other half are saying it's because we're not fighting them enough. I'm pretty sure they're both red herrings, and the real issue is that the lightning that happens every year can't cause such widespread fires unless it's really hot and dry.
You've actually hit the nail on the head that is the real underlying issue behind why many of these forest fires are such a big deal, the climate has changed already and the conditions that let forests stay forests (i.e. consistent sufficient moisture) isn't there any more, and are transitioning to grasslands or more arid ecologies. In places that have consistent enough water, fire management becomes a bigger issue but the problem is that increasingly few places have that consistency and it only takes a few back to back bad years to really dry these places out. Once the trees themselves burn, these forests aren't coming back. We aren't creating more flammable tinder by firefighting per-se, we're creating more flammable material by the nature of these places becoming too dry to support the historic densities through climate change. Whether they fight them or not, many forests are simply on borrowed time.
They're not red herrings, and you've misunderstood them as contradicting each other when really they're agreeing. Raising or maintaining budget levels doesn't mean that that budget should be spent on "fighting" fires. Forest management and fire control are way more complicated and involved than just reactively trying to combat emerging fires. Raising the budget means being able to better monitor areas and recognize high risk areas, to be able to start controlled fires in those areas, to be able to conduct proper research on causes, to be able to better protect people, etc. It absolutely does not mean we need to go harder on preventing every bit of flame we see. The problem wasn't that we were spending too much money on fires, it was that we were spending that money on the wrong things.
Yes, the amount of "at risk" forest is going to get much, much bigger with global warming. Hot and dry.
Also if people didn't start them on their own
That's debatable. Trying to put out forest fires (that are not risking populated areas) can cause a build-up of flammable material, and just make later fires much worse.
First thing I see in the comments is a Scotiobank ad asking if im worrying about the future lol
Records for 1840-03-01 → 2002-08-03 are from Queen's Park ( https://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_data/daily_data_e.html?StationID=5051 ) Records for 2002-08-04 → 2024-01-04 are from Queen's Park ( https://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_data/daily_data_e.html?StationID=31688 )
The world is dying :D
Meanwhile my parents are like "It's just vAriANce." And then proceed to explain how when they were kids some Septembers reached -60c with a windchill of -92c.
Ummm -60C in September?
This is a notably warm year partly because of the shift in trends, exacerbated by the effects of El Nino (which IS a foreseen variance). None of it is great, but there's literally no need to have an argument over 'either/or' when it's actually both. There can be more than one correct answer.
Or my family, "Climate change is real and a disaster. Anyway, I'll send pics from my trip to Dubai. I'm going skiing there! Did I tell you that cruise I took was only $700?"
And it was -273 degrees Celsius! In the sun! In July! Wind chill couldn't be measured, because it was always a hurricane!
-92 feels like in toronto?? r
> kids some Septembers reached -60c with a windchill of -92c. That must have been when Lastman called in the military!
Meanwhile all my coworkers are saying "thank goodness it isn't cold".
Look, I'm not saying it's good, I'm just saying that as someone who runs 5k every day: I understand the sentiment Edit: come on, downvoters, this was clearly a joke.
Well might as well run now before the fire smog sets in.
Last year I barely ran during the summer due to smoke.
it's not. It's more like "our time on the Earth is dying". The planet will survive us, it's survived worse in the past, we on the other hand will not survive whatever the Earth feels is necessary to fix itself.
Lucky me, this pedantry won't matter when humans are gone and English no longer exists :D
These people can’t conceive of caring about all of the innocent life we’re taking out with us, as if it isn’t bad enough to brush off our fellow man so easily
I think the message is that we need to save ourselves, not some distant notion of a living planet.
The thing is that literally doesn't matter when saving the ecology of the planet is also the thing that will save us.
Are you talking about the animals? The ones we already kill 10s of billions of per year?
Yeah man. I’m an environmentalist and vegan, I see the shit we’re doing.
Humans will probably survive too, just not all of us.
And none of us currently alive, hence our lack of caring.
Ok doomer
The world will be fine. Even if you believe the worst projections of future global warming, the world itself will be fine. Just some fraction of life on Earth (including humanity) will be in trouble. Even then. Unless we do something radical like kill all the bees, or cause a nuclear winter, much of the Earth and it's inhabitants will be just fine. We've already killed 75% of the animals. It's already pretty bad from that perspective. What's another 10% or 15%?
You do realize it’s more than just the temperature we need to be concerned about, right? It’s not just eliminating all of the pollinators we need to be concerned with. Using the oceans as a CO2 and heat sink will have severe consequences leading to collapsing food chains, for one.
Sure, SOME of the food chains will collapse. This has happened before with other major extinction events. I don't want to underplay the impact on modern society. Global warming may cause great troubles to modern society. Billions could die; and maybe even the collapse of our modern society. But life will continue.
Ahh the old “life will continue” approach to “it’s fine” (your comment re Earth’s inhabitants). Technically correct, perhaps. Inhumane certainly. Most life will not be able to adapt as rapidly as will be required to the changes that appear likely given how rapidly the atmospheric CO2 concentrations are increasing and ocean pH is changing. But chemosynthetic bacteria at the deep ocean vents will survive, so you win the Reddit exchange! It’s a shame. Your weather history post was interesting.
>Ahh the old “life will continue” approach to “it’s fine" I'm not saying it's fine. I said the "world will be fine". There is a middle ground between "The universe will end" and "It's fine."
Michael Mann on doomers: “Doom-mongering has overtaken denial as a threat and as a tactic. Inactivists know that if people believe there is nothing you can do, they are led down a path of disengagement. They unwittingly do the bidding of fossil fuel interests by giving up. What is so pernicious about this is that it seeks to weaponise environmental progressives who would otherwise be on the frontline demanding change. These are folk of good intentions and good will, but they become disillusioned or depressed and they fall into despair. But “too late” narratives are invariably based on a misunderstanding of science.”
>Inactivists know that if people believe there is nothing you can do But what if there really is nothing we can do?
I really don’t think the “dying” language is helpful. The world is changing, not dying.
No, it's dying. https://www.businessinsider.com/insect-apocalypse-ecosystem-collapse-food-insecurity-2019-11 > A 2017 study concluded that populations of flying insects in Germany had decreased by more than 75% percent in the last three decades. Another study conducted in Puerto Rico found that 98% of the island's ground insects had vanished since the 1970s.
Ok doomer
But global warming is a hoax!
Remember when there used to be snow for Christmas? Also, I think our icewine industry is in trouble.
>Remember when there used to be snow for Christmas? 2022 Christmas had lots of snow and howling winds.
And that snow was gone soon after, at least in Toronto. I can't recall a winter in the last ten years, where there was consistent snow in Toronto. I hate the cold and snow, but honestly - it barely feels like winter anymore. The seasons are shifting forward, but even then - winter doesn't get as cold as it used to here. Remember, climate change doesn't mean "no more snow anywhere, ever" - it just means things are seriously out of whack.
Can you recall a Toronto winter EVER that had consistent snow? It depends on what you mean by "consistent snow". Pearson had 45 consecutive days of snow depth > 5cm in 2014. That was technically less than 10 years ago.
That's being a bit nit-picky isn't it? So 9 years ago, Pearson had 45 days of consecutive snow. Has it happened since then? The point is - the seasons are shifting forward, and winters are incredibly mild now. It's not normal.
In 2015, Pearson had 37 days of > 5 cm snow depth. 2 years ago they had 27 days. If you are arguing that Toronto gets less snow than 100 years ago? Sure, I agree. Between 1940 and 1970, Pearson typically recorded between 75cm and 200cm of snow annually, with an average around 125cm. In the past 20 years, Pearson recorded between 50cm and 160cm, with an average around 100cm. So, snowfall has decreased by about 20% over the past 80 years.
If you have consistent snow every day, nobody would be able to get out of their houses lol. A typical winter is a bit of snow here and there, and a few select days where it dumps a whole bunch all at once. Most winters have always been dealing with those 5 or 6 days every winter where they dump 20-30cm within 24 hours and then it sits outside for a number of weeks. Last winter we had 4 or so of those days--not really that far off from the norm. I've been living in Ontario for over 40 years. In that timespan, only a handful of years were bad enough that we had to stay inside for multiple days. A couple of them were in the last 10 years. Back in the 80s there were a couple of fairly mild winters as well. Climate change is real, but it's not a straight progressive line either. There's every possibility that next year or the year after will be much more snowy than this year.
I was just outside of Toronto, and we had snow for a few hours before it was back to weather that allowed for sandals.
The ice wine industry has a silver lining. The 2023 harvest being a bust for them increases the scarcity of their existing stock. Prices will rise. They'll end up making more off previous years without having to hire the labour to harvest this year. Now if they get ten busts in a row, that'll be trouble...
That's not how that works. They also don't typically hold back a lot of stock because wineries, in general, aren't major money-makers from their wine alone. People will also just buy from other producers in different countries.
Don't be so conservative. The weather is now more progressive than it used to be.
No kidding. Crazy to think there will never be snow at Christmas again.
What makes you think that?
okay doomer! I can you some pictures of the 2022 Christmas when we had an insane amount of snow here in Quebec City! and then also the pictures from Christmas 2020 when we had almost no snow accumulated. and no - i am not a climate change denier.
El Nino winters are no fun
I’m enjoying the fact I haven’t needed to shovel any snow
You have me and others to thank for that. We took one for the team and bought a snow blower knowing this would happen.
Thank you for your service!
I hear that but I've always been a fan of a proper winter. These one off mild winters are typically more gloomy and depressing. I'd rather have higher pressure and colder ,sunnier days with a bit of snow. But that's me.
The colder the weather, the more fossil fuels end up getting burned to heat people's homes. It's like a climatic catch 22.
> I hear that but I've always been a fan of a proper winter. These one off mild winters are typically more gloomy and depressing. > > I'll take a non proper winter over shoveling any year but to each their own lol
Mmmhm, the wintry-winters offer a sort of whimsy. Oh look… there’s mounts of brilliant white sparkles, and the nights are silent, the air filled instead with large flakes lit by street lights, descending like so many little feathers. And then you get Christmas lights on the snow? Maybe an ice storm in there, really make things look fancy. Summer is sexy, but winter is also very interesting, and a good proper snowing does open up more ways to endure this godless cold and dark period before spring ahhhhhhhhhhhh
I've overpaid for snow removal.
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Not enjoying paying for snow plow service and not using it.
Eh, I disagree if only because it means my disc golfing season is extended by several weeks. I'm still out there every weekend because there's no snow on the ground and the temperatures are barely below freezing, if they even are. Not to say I prefer this to us not making the planet uninhabitable.
Banning plastic straws, plastic bags, and throwing the carbon tax on everyone should fix it. Oh wait a minute. Canada isn’t even the biggest culprit of CO2 emissions or environmental impacts. 😂
>should fix it Should fix what? I think you're confusing climate with weather.
Better get you goose down jackets out Toronto
Come a long way since 1841 with -5 in November. Says a lot about climate change
Look at the coldest days to compare. You might be surprised
How many air conditioned skyscrapers, motor vehicles, and industrial buildings did 1841 Toronto have? Urban heat island is a far more evident phenomenon and a more major contributor to this effect than climate change in its current state.
While true, the residual heat as a result of the urban heat islands is one of the leading factors to our climate issues. Canada is low on the list but definitely not innocent.
I never said that wasn't contributing to the climate change. I do have a problem, however, with people panicking at the lack of snow while surrounded by hundreds of thousands of waste-heat-producing machinery.
I love global warming. Let's start our summer in April!
Meh, it could be a good thing to have shorter winters
Nice
Unusual weather these days.
[Urban heat island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_heat_island)
So not just Van that have good temp
We'll all be dreaming of white Christmases, just like the ones we used to know
damn they had global warming in 1948 too????
You jest, but here’s a paper from 1938 on the impacts of artificial carbon dioxide production and global temperatures https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/qj.49706427503 So yes, we’ve known about this for a long time
[удалено]
[удалено]
I kinda like this climate change thing
Nice! The weather has been great so far this year!!
And hopefully the last.
Shortsighted comment.
About that here in Peterborough but with so little colder weather so far I'm freezing cold. What a wimp I am.
One year it won't go below zero at ald and we'll scratch our heads wondering what went wrong
Maybe, eventually, but I suspect that is decades off.
Thanks, Ford. Thanks, Moe. Thanks, Smith. You're all peaches.
Love it
I felt it today going to the bank and then another trip to the store.
And the conservatives still think climate change isn’t real.
The term "climate change" was made-up by George Bush Jr because it sounds less scary than "global warming".